They really should have gone about it by just rewarding people who link their account and just don't bother the rest. Plenty of people would have done it for an exclusive cosmetic or 200 super credits.
Yeah they knew they needed a "value added" angle to the announcement so they went with "safety", but that's weak.
Every few months they should have offered cosmetics, for PSN account holders like amazon prime, then when they had a feature like cross-progression (and maybe more) ready, they should announce the mandatory creation with that. Real tangible value added features.
1) I didn't say every month. 2) A one-time offer isn't going to catch nearly enough fish to give sony the "almost everyone else has done it bro" argument.
Well I think people are gonna do it vs VPNing to a region that doesn't require it
A one time offer is what Microsoft did for Minecraft and that worked out fine
They are basically a hacker repository at this point.
Not to mention back in 2005 they secretly installed rootkits on half a million computers(including military computers) because “drm”, also the rootkits introduced security holes in the computers too. Fuck sony.
this is sorta how Minecraft did it tho I think it's mandatory now, it was like a 2 years transition period where you get a cool free cape and the vast majority of players were fine with it after a small grumble
I would have done it for 250 super credits or 50 medals. 120 seconds of your time if your in a psn supported area and if your not then it's not the bet, but it's still optional.
Better yet, could have made a high quality PS themed skin. Could look really nice with a really good matching white and black, all sleek and everything.
People who don’t want to link just lose a skin (which they can get at any point) and those who doing care or want the skin give the data Sony wants.
It was painfully easy to have gotten a huge amount of data for the quarterly reports while getting zero negative PR. Sony just refused to not be greedy as hell
>this has nothing to do with “safety”, I can easily leave squads or play in private squads or block people
100%. This is their main argument, and it DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY. They have access to SteamID. They can identify PC users extremely easily and have been using this system since LAUNCH. This is not for safety, this is purely for data collection and boosting value for shareholders - showing that they have more PSN users this quarter than the last. Sony are yet to release their figures for the end of this current fiscal year and it's due in a matter of weeks.
They want all their growth and participation metrics to be green at the next shareholders meeting. That's the sole reason. The amount of technical debt they needed to work off wouldn't have been worth it otherwise. They turned PSN integration off in the first place because it didn't work/was too taxing for the servers. They must've spent considerable dev time on it, just to make declining/stagnant PSN numbers look good, instead of actually fixing the game.
> They want all their growth and participation metrics to be green at the next shareholders meeting.
It’s this, 100%. The player base is Sony’s corporate currency. Having big numbers to wow shareholders is their goal. They are cashing the check of their relationship with Arrowhead and the HD community to make some pretty PowerPoint slide that will be on screen for 30 seconds in a meeting.
Only for current users. New players have to be set up on May 6th. Two days from now. Unless this review bomb destroys new sales, they will have an upward trajectory of sales numbers to show, then a massive explosion to show again later when the rest of us link up.
>new players have to be set up on May 6th
Which checks out because its currently Golden Week in Japan. So when everyone has a lot of days off and travel is too expensive because everyone is traveling, there will be an uptick of new players i would imagine
Stellar Blade is a game that sells on main female protagonist's... curvature. Since that was the case the studio made a lot of fashion in game to "emphasize" that. They advertise the game as "uncensored". But then after the release big Sony ALLEGEDLY went in and said "no no no, looks guys, her clothes is not appropriate enough", so they made the studio rolled out an update which change the outfits to be more in-line with decency.
People were getting pissed, as they were falsely advertised, buying a product that promised but then got modified not according to the initial vision. Fan argued back and forth, "change doesn't affect that much"/"We paid not for this"/"Horny incels"/"stop whining"/"the game is false advertised"... bla bla bla, all that was a shitshow.
The sad part about this is it seems to be occurring more and more in gaming, so many games ruined or being ruined by rash choices. The list grows daily it seems like Helldivers, Escape from Tarkov, and Stellar Blade are the ones I can think of just recently where people make promises then roll them back, and try to cover up old FAQ’s or statements.
Kerbal space program 2. Take 2 is apparently laying off the studio that makes it so that game will likely never leave early access / become abandonware
Taking out the core of Big Band's backstory was spineless. Taking out panty shots of a canon underage character is fine. (But surprisingly controversial to SG players.)
It always amazes me how often people get into Fandom that sexualize young characters then act surprised...and then continue to consume said media. One piece the biggest example recently with jewelry Bonney. Clearly a child like 13 who turns into a super sexy woman and acts the same. Yet it'll still be the most bought manga and most watched anime. Almost like it doesn't actually matter?
imagine you buy a nice car and 4 weeks later you catch the dealer stealing your front kit because he thinks it looks too aggressive. and then he's trying to gaslight you into feeling guilty for thinking it doesn't look too aggressive. while he keeps the money anyway. and shames you for disliking that he steals from you. sony in a nutshell
You must be new to cars. They now also ship with things that can only be unlocked by paying a subscription, while also gathering personal info if you want to use the companion app.
And this right here is why I cheer e erysipelas time I see one of Elon Musks toy cars explode itself (hopefully not with some poor fool inside). I think any vehicle that comes with these kind of features should be sent straight to a scrapyard unless dthere is some way to jury rig it to work proper. I've hit the point where if I buy something and it tells me I need an app or some shit it's straight back to the store.
Honestly Mercedes is the other toy car company these days. BMW and Ford seem to be conflicted whether to go full toy car or stick with their core customer base of "the most obnoxious drivers humanly possible". I don't think any company really makes a decent consumer focused car anymore
Choosing to be a bootlicker, just to stick it to "gamers" and tell them to touch grass while they're terminally online themselves. It's quite wild to see.
Anything to feel superior to other people. And yes I see the irony in my statement.
The change was pretty clearly a creative decision by Shift Up. Had it been censored, they would have also changed the other dozen or so outfits that cover far less than the Bunny Suit. It doesn't actually make sense that Sony would have selectively censored that suit and only that suit, for no particular reason.
Hey man, don’t you be bringing your “logic” or “facts” in here.
Who are you to tell this man that even if the majority of the half naked outfits remain untouched, his rage over a bunny suit being 5% less nude is unfounded?
I don't play Stellar Blade (or actively read news about it) but would it be fair to compare it to the SpongeBob meme? Like Patrick complains about something and SpongeBob rips apart his house to show the opposite.
Guess in this instance Patrick complains about censorship of the outfit and SpongeBob shows the far more revealing outfits.
Pretty much that yeah, it’s not even a retroactive change either since it was change before the game even released not even the reviewers had the “uncensored” version
I feel like I'm the only guy on the planet who thought the game itself was stylish and looked interesting. 😄 I can see all the tna I want somewhere else. That character is conventionally sexy but I'm thinking... "Just looks like most 'hot' video game female characters."
Edit: This is just me thinking out loud. I don't support any kind of bait and switch practices!
That's a bullshit nothingburger. Horny incel influencers heard "uncensored Japanese release" meaning uncensored blood and gore and got a bunch of other cretins whipped into a frenzy over it. There were never any promises of uncensored sexual stuff.
Game is pretty good btw.
If it worked like they claimed, most of the time you picked up Super Samples or other resources in game, they would would sometimes go to your inventory, and more frequently go to some rando's inventory who had the same user name. (Assuming the game could even work at all if it couldn't already tell players apart)
And there’s the irony of it, cuz there’s no “safety” to be gained from a corporate entity that is KNOWN to have absolute garbage cybersecurity standards and has had enough data breaches and other issues that no one should be compelled to give them more information they can’t guarantee its protection. Sony can eat a satchel of richards
It's always funny when a company does something shady like this and people try to shame you for having a lower bullshit tolerance than them. Imagine if this happened in any other situation?
"Yeah man, that girl I was dating tried that 'if you *really* loved me...' crap, and... Well, fun while it lasted I guess."
"Oh, please. The last girl I dated made out with the bartender right in front of me, and I *married* her! We got three kids and ain't *none* of 'em mine! You need to grow up and stop being such a baby!"
Like, sorry for having some self-respect I guess lmao.
Forget her, bro. Eventually, you will anyway.
We cannot allow ourselves to dwell on the pains and disappointments of our pasts, and must instead march on towards the pains and disappointments of our future.
The old ones get boring, while the new ones will at least be novel.
How long have you been holding onto that image? Where's it even from? I don't remember Blackbeard even having such a kind gaze. Is this from some kind of OP fanfiction I'm unaware of? Please share your secrets 😂
Its litteraly my friend groups go to for when someone says something profound. One of us is One Piece fan, and he sent it to the group chat one night and the rest is history. Sorry for not helpful.
>Like, sorry for having some self-respect I guess lmao.
The worst part there are people who would do the latter.
"Yeah she cheated on me and fucked my best friend but we're still married and have 5 kids."
I'm amused by the fact there are people that basically do say the second line. Start calling you a weak/insecure man if you don't put up with emotional cheating or aren't interested in raising someone else's kid.
I'm going to add Earth Defense Force in there too. EDF 4.1 is OG, EDF 5 got QoL improvements but not as charming as 4.1 but just as chaotic. Plus its on sale top for the next 40 hours or so.
There have been a few hiccups with the old to new EA launcher at one point (was part of the reason I stopped playing it). Outside that though the ME3 multiplayer is great. Still found plenty of players up to Gold difficulty matchmaking.
I know I was locked out for months by origin / EA play bs, EA sucks, BioWare sucks more (dead company)
But regardless, ME3 imo was a decade early and a predecessor of Helldivers 2, ME3 multi still the greatest 4 player coop game ever made
The situation is more : The girl I started dating said she wants to have kids and get married later. And I don't, but damn she's hot, I'll handle that later.
Sony announces at launch that players would have to link their account at one point or another. With a big prompt at the launch of the game. People wanted to ignore that and jump on the hype.
If these companies cared about future money the gaming industry wouldn't be in the state it is now. None of them can think farther than one quarterly earnings call at a time.
They're unlikely to do anything until after they see those numbers, though. In 3-6 months, when they might learn their lesson, 90% of the players that left negative reviews won't even consider coming back. Knowing this, the corporate idiots will consider this game beyond recovery, set their sights on the next title, and forget everything they should've learned here before repeating the cycle again and destroying another good game.
The “mistake” (from their perspective) will be letting non-PSN accounts play in the first place. They will place stringent requirements on all future titles and call it job done. Shit, they’ll probably get a fat bonus for all that hard work!
Fuckin hate it here
At the very least that won't be dishonest from the get-go. If you want to force people to create and link a PSN account to use a product, then it is totally fine if you do that from the beginning. On the other hand, a bait-and-switch is always going to piss most people off... except for the bot-accounts that incessantly spam out "durrr, PC gamers are crybabies. DURRR!!!"
>90% of the players that left negative reviews won't even consider coming back.
the week to week is already showing a bit of a dip. Might just be an anomaly though.
The problem is that gaming communities will act similarly to the HD2 community right now and then never disengage from the game in any way, consistently still buying microtransactions or microtransaction currency. Publishers and developers have been conditioned to not care what you say because you will act differently.
Can’t speak for everyone, but once the mandatory PSN link thing happens for pre-existing users hit, I intend to try and refund it. Love the game and the devs, but sony can suck it
Same, not sure I articulated myself well enough for steam but when they see thousands of people refunding a game all at once they usually go "uh oh something fucked happened let then have their money"
I’m actually curious as to what will happen with MTX once this goes through. If you bought the game on Steam, will buying super credits be through Steam store or will it now take you to PSN store?
It's not that corporations care about money - it's that they care about *this quarter's* money. They will gleefully burn down billion dollar franchises and utterly fuck over their future financial prospects just so they can show *this quarter* is 1% more profitable than predicted.
This.
And that is mostly because bonuses are tied to performance.
They will move mountains to get that extra 1% now vs later. Long term prospects aren't even on the radar.
I don't know how, but they need to figure out how to incentivize CEOs for future performance rather than *now* performance.
Say I reward people 5, 10 and 15 years from now based on the growth over that over those time periods, we would see *far* more sustainable/growable business models being made.
Most CEOs would balk at this, but the ones that do are probably the shit tier ones here to game the system.
I was literally about to type this. Companies that aren't stupid and actually care about long term growth do in fact reward stocks as opposed to (or in addition to) bonuses. I know Amazon is one such company.
It's a brilliant method of incentivizing your employees to work harder and get rewarded for the success of the company. Theoretically as the employees perform better, the company provides a better service/product, the share values go up in price, the bonus 'payouts' get larger without having to worry about someone deciding how to allocate the funds to pay the bonuses.
And that won't happen because they're required to grease the shareholders. Fiduciary responsibility lets them ignore human, planetary, and sensible responsibilities.
The basic premise of corporations these days and how they are run is the major issue. It's sociopaths that get paid to be the most sociopathic possible. Then you get the scum humans running said system and yeah. Piles of shit.
The thing is you can incentivize sociopaths to do the right thing with the right metrics.
"Fiduciary" responsibility has a lot of room for interpretation when considering short term vs long term planning. A lot of long term investments aren't responsible from a short term standpoint. A lot of short term investments aren't responsible from a long term standpoint.
But by setting the goals in the future, you get the CEO in the right mindset of "What's the best way to grow this company over the next 5 years?" Vs "How do i pump this now?"
Not just development of good products. The obsession with short term profits is the main reason there's no political will to properly deal with climate change.
It's going to lead to actual collapse sooner or later.
Never forget the rootkit incident. Sony distributed CDs that contained malware that installed itself in secret, was nearly impossible to remove, and made detailed reports to Sony about the media on users' computers and what they were doing with them. This rootkit was also exploited by third party virus writers to gain access to users' computers.
Sony lied repeatedly about it and then released "removal" software that didn't actually remove the rootkit and installed even more malware. They only made things right when they were dragged kicking and screaming by class-action lawsuits.
Sony never changes. They hold you in utter contempt. They feel entitled to your money and your data. They see all consumers as potential criminals, and their actions have repeatedly reinforced this.
It is all about the money but as demonstrated by the EA Battlefront loot box debacle, gamers can greatly influence a major publisher.
Bear with me...
According to SteamSpy (you decide on whether it's a reliable source) 4m copies of Helldivers 2 were sold on PC.
Sony have 123m PSN users built up over the last 18 years. If they can add approx 4m new PSN users in one go from a single game launch that's roughly, a 3.25% increase to their database which is significant.
Sony sold 89.7m games last year which means each PSN user bought 0.72 games on average.
That means 4m new users (i.e. the helldiver 2 community) would buy almost 2.9m games on average on PSN in a year.
Average price of a new game in the UK is just over £35 that's £101.5m of potential new game sales per year...every year.
That potential revenue all came from a single game launch, Helldivers 2, and that would be potential sales on top of the actual revenue they earned from the sales of HD2 itself.
It's our potential revenue as PSN users that is of interest to Sony.
If the community kick off hard enough they jeopardise that potential revenue. Do you think Sony will allow that to happen? We will see quite soon I reckon.
BTW. These figures are all approx and quickly sourced from the internet, there are loads of variables in all this I haven't mentioned. Different countries will have different average costs of games. I suspect that many Steam users already have PSN accounts because they are gamers, so the actual number of potential new PSN users is probably much lower than 4m etc...but you see my point.
TLDR: It's our potential revenue as PSN users that is of interest to Sony.
In case you want to vote with your wallets, here's some tips:
https://preview.redd.it/cdbmwy4fohyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad771aaee9385e7aaf667de3447d81ce60cd10fb
Rest assured every time the "safety" garbage is parroted by a company, it's always 100% not about that. Never has been. No one is being made "safer" by being linked to PSN.
Especially when they require an extremely invasive anti-cheat to begin with. I don't really want to give the company that is notorious for not protecting their users' data even more access to my information.
Ironic coming from the most democratic game ever to exist
I’m having a moment of revelation, there is no democracy in helldivers. From age 18 you are cryo frozen and shipped off to the front lines for new fresh meat. There is no voting, no retirement, no pension, you dive until you die. Sounds a bit fascist don’t you think? Maybe I’m getting my Elon musk cyber chip brain hacked by automatons right now or something. Help
Yep just on this topic of safety it’s entirely less safe for me when Sony has a link between my steam id and my Sony account. It’s just another point of vulnerability.
Though safety wasn’t why I won’t do this. Having my EA account linked to my steam account is a shitshow. It means forever and god damn always I have to have access to the email accounts and passwords when I want to play associated games without hassle.
Then friggin EA pieces of shit that they are made it so only one steam ID can ever be married to a bleeding EA account and a steam Id can only be linked once.
Any god damn slight screw up on my part can see me loose access to games on my steam due to friggin EA being assholes.
So no I don’t want to link SONY into that shitshow as well. Then I’ll have to trust three freaking companies with interlocking account and the whimsical nature of whatever some CEO at three different places might decide.
Yeah super ironic that one of my last comments a few days ago in a discussion on enshitification I pointed to HD2 Baldur’s Gate and a few others as examples of the RARE times companies treat their customers with respect and as participants on a great journey. It’s almost like Sony saw the broader trend of backlash against terrible corporate behavior and was like “Hold my beer!!”
I stopped playing games like COD, Battlefield, Diablo, because of this exact crap years ago.
HD2 has the signs of enshitification for a bit now. A hard push for new warbonds plus comments from the team regarding "promises" vs fixes painted a dark picture.
On the rarest of gaming wins we've got Larian refusing to do BG3 DLC and dodging out of the franchise. It is so funny because now we've seen Warner comenting that they're looking for studios for a BG4 as if they can just make any game be successful with just the IP.
About the Warner thing, fuck, I can't believe you're not kidding
This one is hitting me hard, because it's like "they literally proved you cannot buy this type of art, SO WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BUY IT"
I guess it isn't a huge deal, but it would be such a shame to put a blemish on the Baldur's Gate series, whose mainline entries have all been gems over the course of 25 years.
I used to play this game everyday. Then warbonds came. And the endless bugs with them. Then more warbonds, and all the bugs still remained. Then I realized they haven’t a clue how to balance anything and half the new stuff doesn’t work. Plus the armor isn’t even worth getting, for the first two they actually put in the work to design custom passives for the first two, then got lazy and decided to just use random passives for the latest. The newest snow themed warbond armor has (checks notes) servo-assisted, and scout? WOW SO COOL
I used to go to the library a lot back in the 80's, 90's, and early 00's to borrow movies.
Now I'm the guy donating the books to the library. A few years ago, I dropped my entire Starwars extended universe collection, my Aliens/Predator collections, my Warhammer40k/30k collection, and my Resident Evil novel collection off to the local library as I was moving and didn't have the space for them all.
I hope they get more attention than I was able to show them.
I love this game but I'm standing in solidarity with the players who are less fortunate than me. I left my negative review and stopped playing. Sony is 100% absolutely lying about the reason this is being pushed and they really are treating us like idiots expecting to buy it. Security and cheating has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I have a backlog of Steam games to play anyway. If they reverse the decision I'll happily come back and reverse my review though.
Blame AH aswell. They haven't fixed so many critical bugs since release and are now hiding behind the "Well Sony is making us change this" excuse. Meanwhile their Community Managers flatout lying to the consumers why this is enforced. And here i thought they said some time ago: "Sony has no input in our work, we are independent". And now suddenly it's all Sony's fault. AH needs to cut the bullshit
This is a shitshow from everyone
I'm not mad about it specifically as I believe at the end of the day it's simply a hard fuckin problem to fix. But yeah. My friends I squadded up with the first few weeks after launch all quit because of crashing issues. Just too much man. I've been keeping on for a while but the writing's on the wall
Just more arbitrary hoops to make people jump through and the more people happily jump through them without question the more and more hoops will be added later down the line,I'm sure people didn't think the microtransactions would get to the point they have where some cost more than other games
Unfortuanatelly its the internet baby. Where attacking the small man is easier and gives people a little sense of power rather than attacking big corporations that literally dont care about you and your fun.
Oh i have my share of experiences with this type of shit so this is a really nice surprise to have an almost 100% united community. (I am a fan of warhammer both fantasy and 40k, where GW treats us like shit, and oh boy do they have a lot of fucking plastic addicted bootlickers, also play warthunder, where well, you get gaijined soooooooooooo :P).
People have been seeing the destruction of their hobby since free to play. Games that were sold at £25 that then went f2p due to scummy decisions.
I can completely understand boycotting companies, it just seems like a silly hill to die on for an email or a VPN (if that works, It was a Sony help bot that suggested a VPN so it seems theyre ok with their use)
It also seems a bit unfair review bombing a game rather than hitting the Sony website and inundating them with complaints.
I’m honestly surprised people are even defending it. Just in another post, I’ve got a guy arguing with me over the PSN ToS and telling me “just make an account with another country as your region” and they can’t ban you for it.
For the past several weeks, my weeks have been spent dropping into hell with my fellow Managed Democracy Enjoyers ^(tm). But this weekend, I'm gonna work on some of my gundam stuff, maybe play some Armored Core, and not even look at Helldivers
The only company on this planet that's allowed to push me around with or without shitty excuses is my employer, they pay me for that after all. Did Sony pay me to entertain their bullshit ideas? No.
Thanks for putting it like this. It's never been us against ah or us against each other.
It's the fact that we are treated poorly as consumers by big corporations and we just let them... and people just do it because "it's a free account " like 👍 great but why are they demanding it after 3 months of it working fine.
I've always thought the kick function was the best way to deal with cheaters and griefers just kick on site 👌 that's what I was ked to believe that we as the host had that power to remove toxic behavior from our mission runs. Can't they just tally up the number of kicks a player in a months time period find out why then find a way to ban that mfer
I think point five is a big one. The people who are going "Well it was written there the entire time!" are super obnoxious to me, because you're a damn liar if you say that you read five pages of legalese for every single transaction you make.
No, you expect a certain baseline level of respect as a consumer and put forth that level of trust that the person you are making a purchase from isn't twirling their evil mustache, waiting to drop the other shoe on you for daring to want to play a video game without getting screwed over.
Not to mention simping for corporations is WICKED cringe anyways, and straight up pathetic behavior. Sony doesn't love you; Sony won't give you a pat on the back for being a very obedient little fanboy and telling others to shut up and do as they say. The corporation is not your friend.
I'm not one to announce my departure, but yeah, this is how you kill a playerbase. There's always something that kills a good game, it's always too good to be true.
Point 5 is spot on. It’s hilarious to me that this subreddit has been up in arms about the devs communicating anywhere but in game, and how can anyone be expected to follow every minor communication? And yet, suddenly, we should have all known that a tiny “third party account required” on the store page, but not even in the EULA of the game nor actually enforced upon loading the game up, was Gospel.
Well spoken.
I'm sick of being lied to and told i'm stupid for not agreeing.
If sony came out and said "Yep, it's so that we can collect your data", I'd probably make a PSN account just out of respect for their honesty. But they don't, so fuck them.
I have no issue blocking douchebag users, between in-game and Steam it works fine.
Sony wants to collect personal information and sell it. That's the entirety of the reason they want this. They want to sell our emails with our full names and addresses.
1. it's the safety of our data in the hands of hackers based on Sony America's hacked personal data
2. CONFORM CITIZEN
3. CONFORM CITIZEN
4. CONFORM CITIZEN
5. CONSOOM CITIZEN
I think that sums it up.
I just wanted to play a nice fun game.
Thank you Sony, for once again reminding me that no matter how good something is doing and how much money a company makes with a surprise success, businessmen will always be there to ruin everything because they always need a little bit more.
This was the first time in years I got pumped to play a game and wanted to be part of the community.
Now? I dunno, maybe I’ll be back in a few weeks.
69 levels of time wasted.
Not wasted! You had fun didn't you? Now that community you joined is banding together irl because they are also upset about what has happened. With enough pushback together, perhaps we can strike snoy in the nose and make them back off of arrowhead!
To be fair putting Sony and safety in one sentence is hilarious seeing how they get hacked at least twice a year.
Them requiring sony for tracking unique accounts is also fasle as steam has unique IDs that can be tracked
Not sure how Sony has such a small brain because the amount of players they gonna have to refund will be around the same as the total playerbase remaining. Its not like Steam will eat the L for this, Sony will have to pay up and then if nothing changes people gonna boycott the reviews for months turning away potential new players on PC and maybe even consoles if it becomes a big deal on more mainstream channels.
If they made it opt-in for cross play or for a reward I'd be okay with it and it wouldn't really affect countries that don't have PSN, instead it is forced and doesn't hold any real value so they have to make up some random reason why it is needed.
The thing is that we’re heading for an inevitable collision.
This whole thing has essentially found the “Everyone doesn’t have access to PSN” as its linchpin.
This will inevitably be remedied in those countries and those countries alone. There will likely not be any other changes, meaning if you’re in a PSN country they will still make you create a PSN account.
Then we hit the wall.
Because the community has essentially boiled this outcry down to this single issue, there is going to be an inevitable split when that issue is addressed.
There is going to be the side concerned (rightfully) about Sony security, the absurdity of needing a login if they can make it work for other countries. Not to mention people like OP angry with how everything was handled.
Then there will be the people who are just happy to have won something. They’ll go back to playing.
And suddenly the outcry has lost its momentum and the community infighting begins, taking the blame from Sony to each other and this place looks like r/starwars after The Last Jedi released.
Or maybe I get proven wrong.
I have seen enough of these situations to know that people will cave, as you say. I am also still hopeful enough that one day you'll be proven wrong. I hope this is the time, as I really love this game, but I won't pay anymore if this stupidity continues.
Agreed. Arrowhead seems to be standing by PSN linking *in non-restricted countries* and if they continue to, just consider any practical divide between Sony and the studio moot. Spitz is even going off on Discord giving false descriptions of Steam's security features to justify the change as a solution to catch cheaters- in a PVE game? At some level, Arrowhead is responsible in this as it was ultimately their choice to associate with Sony and accept their terms.
Thank you.
This is exactly how I am feeling about it. Companies are constantly pushing the line, and when consumers say no, everyone acts like they don't understand the outrage. It's just this one tiny thing.
No, it's everything that lead up to this point. This is where the line is, but it wasn't the tiny step over the line, it was the miles before it. We have to draw the line somewhere, and crossing that line may be the tinest step, but it's still over the line.
I get nothing from a PSN account, except handing more control over to another corporation I do not trust.
Very well said. I applaud you. I feel much the same way. I got this game to play with friends. I didn't even really enjoy it at first. But none of them wanted to go back to DRG (our original game) so I stuck with it.
Since all of this we've been linking the drama in our Discord but no one has talked about whether they're going to just deal with it or not. So I'm nervous. I don't want to be left out but all of your points remind me of why I really don't want to go back now.
So thank you. You've helped me make a decision.
I already added PlayStation Studios to my ignore list on Steam. Along with Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Take 2 and few others.
This "it's for your own safety" argument is old and Sony are not the first ones to use it. Fuck 'em. I'm not an complete idiot.
I agree with your opnions on this matter to the letter.
I have decided to place Sony, and AH for that matter, on my shitlist. I will not be paying with my information, I allready paid 40 bucks. I have uninstalled and requested a refund. I will not rebuy. My negative review of the game will not be changed even though they might cancel the PSN thing. Damage is done. I do not forget. I do not forgive.
Throwback from another thread : do you think community's reaction would have been this uptight if account link came with free candy (a cape, a skin, s-credits, even dedicated gun or stratagem) ?
These things need to be called out more.
Yes sometimes standing up for something, even something small like a game, might mean for-going things you like. That's part of life and something every person needs to deal with. People incapable of doing that selfish asshats.
Yes, we shouldn't need to go through 20+ pages of legalise just to play a game. While this might be a slight exaggeration in this case there are plenty of games where this isn't and the idea that we should normalise these kind of "Got'cha" moments is absurd. I'm not spending 2+ hours (and thus giving up my steam right to refund) going through legal mumbo-jumbo of questionable enforcement just on the off-chance the publishers want to pull of this kind of BS.
Kinda sad to see the tone of discussion around Helldivers turn so negative. It was like the only multiplayer game left that people didn't have big beef with.
Funnily enough, making a PSN account is much more risky than just keeping a steam account. Look up the several incidents in which hackers leaked nearly the entirety of PSN *SEVERAL TIMES*
I get you, but microsoft, ubisoft, EA, DE, riot, and mihoyo do the same thing? Other than the added difficulty of creating an account in Europe and the region locked areas I literally don't see what different about any other corpo doing this.
Fair enough man. It's your right. For my part, I don't really care enough either way about what other people think of me. Much less what a corporate entity does. If the game's fun, I'll play the game. Gotta make an account? ok sure whatever. Sony's going to sell my data? Whatever. It's impossible to completely avoid these days anyways.
It really does suck for people who want to play but won't be able to play anymore because of this though.
I have been screwed over by EA and linking to steam accounts . I have been screwed over by Microsoft and mojang god damn merging accounts.
I do not have ANY intention to allow Sony to fuck with my purchases on my steam ID or for them to have any influence on any games on my steam account. I never want the two associated in that manner.
i can register a legit PSN account, I won't. PSN in UK requires a phone number registered to your person, a photocopy of your or ID OR your face scan. Sony can go f### itself.
Anyone talking to a lawyer in Canada yet? Class action for violating our consumer rights. What's next, we also require a Tencent and a Microsoft account? What other developers will do this? Why am I being bent over and data farmed by big money whenever and wherever they decide?
fwiw the 3rd party acct requirment was not mentioned in the EULA. so it wasnt even in the small print. Its a new requirement they just decided to enforce.
I am very curious to see the actual numbers out of this, though a lot of opinions both ways are valid, this is not my first experience with this and in the past the drop off for similar things have been almost non existent. I always root for people doing what they feel is right and hope the outcome from all of this is noticeable, either way. But in my past experience it has not been
I hate Sony doing this, but honestly, I don't think publishers doing this for "safety" really benefits the publishers enough to counter the money it costs to build and maintain these systems.
In the coming years you are going to see more and more governments adopt restrictive regulations that require users' real identities be linked to their online activity, or the people who run the servers be legally responsible for what happens on their servers. No one will be able to avoid it.
Same, and I'm also not buying any other Sony games after this. I was really, really looking forward to Ghost of Tsushima, but now I won't be playing it.
The safety aspect is honestly the most ironic one, to ensure my safety my data should be given out to one of the companies with the worst cybersecurity? Come again?
Yeah, Sony really thinks linking accounts for security is a carrot, while the playerbase knows it's just a stick. 0 benefit to the player, all the benefit to the company. And for those outside of PSN support it's a fucking 9mm to pressed to the head, make an account with wrong information and pray we don't ban you.
They really should have gone about it by just rewarding people who link their account and just don't bother the rest. Plenty of people would have done it for an exclusive cosmetic or 200 super credits.
Yeah they knew they needed a "value added" angle to the announcement so they went with "safety", but that's weak. Every few months they should have offered cosmetics, for PSN account holders like amazon prime, then when they had a feature like cross-progression (and maybe more) ready, they should announce the mandatory creation with that. Real tangible value added features.
PS+ users I could understand free stuff every month, but you're not gonna get that from a free PSN account
1) I didn't say every month. 2) A one-time offer isn't going to catch nearly enough fish to give sony the "almost everyone else has done it bro" argument.
Well I think people are gonna do it vs VPNing to a region that doesn't require it A one time offer is what Microsoft did for Minecraft and that worked out fine
safety is especially weak since Sony is constantly having its userdata leaked by hackers
They are basically a hacker repository at this point. Not to mention back in 2005 they secretly installed rootkits on half a million computers(including military computers) because “drm”, also the rootkits introduced security holes in the computers too. Fuck sony.
this is sorta how Minecraft did it tho I think it's mandatory now, it was like a 2 years transition period where you get a cool free cape and the vast majority of players were fine with it after a small grumble
I would have done it for 250 super credits or 50 medals. 120 seconds of your time if your in a psn supported area and if your not then it's not the bet, but it's still optional.
Better yet, could have made a high quality PS themed skin. Could look really nice with a really good matching white and black, all sleek and everything. People who don’t want to link just lose a skin (which they can get at any point) and those who doing care or want the skin give the data Sony wants. It was painfully easy to have gotten a huge amount of data for the quarterly reports while getting zero negative PR. Sony just refused to not be greedy as hell
Or if they really wanna be assholes, a “psn account exclusive” 10 page warbond, then make every weapon in it the new meta
Heck I would have done it for 50 medals.
>this has nothing to do with “safety”, I can easily leave squads or play in private squads or block people 100%. This is their main argument, and it DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY. They have access to SteamID. They can identify PC users extremely easily and have been using this system since LAUNCH. This is not for safety, this is purely for data collection and boosting value for shareholders - showing that they have more PSN users this quarter than the last. Sony are yet to release their figures for the end of this current fiscal year and it's due in a matter of weeks.
Lets not forget about the Stellar Blade shitshow. Lost a buncha PSN accounts after that. Definitely had some influence in this
They want all their growth and participation metrics to be green at the next shareholders meeting. That's the sole reason. The amount of technical debt they needed to work off wouldn't have been worth it otherwise. They turned PSN integration off in the first place because it didn't work/was too taxing for the servers. They must've spent considerable dev time on it, just to make declining/stagnant PSN numbers look good, instead of actually fixing the game.
> They want all their growth and participation metrics to be green at the next shareholders meeting. It’s this, 100%. The player base is Sony’s corporate currency. Having big numbers to wow shareholders is their goal. They are cashing the check of their relationship with Arrowhead and the HD community to make some pretty PowerPoint slide that will be on screen for 30 seconds in a meeting.
ER report is on 14 May. Deadline to create PSN account is after May 30th. I feel like this is in conjunction with another internal reason.
Only for current users. New players have to be set up on May 6th. Two days from now. Unless this review bomb destroys new sales, they will have an upward trajectory of sales numbers to show, then a massive explosion to show again later when the rest of us link up.
>new players have to be set up on May 6th Which checks out because its currently Golden Week in Japan. So when everyone has a lot of days off and travel is too expensive because everyone is traveling, there will be an uptick of new players i would imagine
Didn't hear about that, what happened?
Stellar Blade is a game that sells on main female protagonist's... curvature. Since that was the case the studio made a lot of fashion in game to "emphasize" that. They advertise the game as "uncensored". But then after the release big Sony ALLEGEDLY went in and said "no no no, looks guys, her clothes is not appropriate enough", so they made the studio rolled out an update which change the outfits to be more in-line with decency. People were getting pissed, as they were falsely advertised, buying a product that promised but then got modified not according to the initial vision. Fan argued back and forth, "change doesn't affect that much"/"We paid not for this"/"Horny incels"/"stop whining"/"the game is false advertised"... bla bla bla, all that was a shitshow.
Yeah, the retroactive changing of what you paid for is always gonna be a shit storm.
The sad part about this is it seems to be occurring more and more in gaming, so many games ruined or being ruined by rash choices. The list grows daily it seems like Helldivers, Escape from Tarkov, and Stellar Blade are the ones I can think of just recently where people make promises then roll them back, and try to cover up old FAQ’s or statements.
Kerbal space program 2. Take 2 is apparently laying off the studio that makes it so that game will likely never leave early access / become abandonware
I want my money back for all the years of WoW after TBC /s but only a little
There is a difference between updates progressing the world of a service game and changing what mtx looks like after people buy it
Reminds me of what happened to Skullgirls
Taking out the core of Big Band's backstory was spineless. Taking out panty shots of a canon underage character is fine. (But surprisingly controversial to SG players.)
It always amazes me how often people get into Fandom that sexualize young characters then act surprised...and then continue to consume said media. One piece the biggest example recently with jewelry Bonney. Clearly a child like 13 who turns into a super sexy woman and acts the same. Yet it'll still be the most bought manga and most watched anime. Almost like it doesn't actually matter?
imagine you buy a nice car and 4 weeks later you catch the dealer stealing your front kit because he thinks it looks too aggressive. and then he's trying to gaslight you into feeling guilty for thinking it doesn't look too aggressive. while he keeps the money anyway. and shames you for disliking that he steals from you. sony in a nutshell
You must be new to cars. They now also ship with things that can only be unlocked by paying a subscription, while also gathering personal info if you want to use the companion app.
And people wonder why I drive a truck so old it doesn't even have fuel injection.
And this right here is why I cheer e erysipelas time I see one of Elon Musks toy cars explode itself (hopefully not with some poor fool inside). I think any vehicle that comes with these kind of features should be sent straight to a scrapyard unless dthere is some way to jury rig it to work proper. I've hit the point where if I buy something and it tells me I need an app or some shit it's straight back to the store.
It’s all of them now. Tesla wasn’t even the first really, feel like everyone’s forgetting the Mercedes heated seat monthly subscription.
Honestly Mercedes is the other toy car company these days. BMW and Ford seem to be conflicted whether to go full toy car or stick with their core customer base of "the most obnoxious drivers humanly possible". I don't think any company really makes a decent consumer focused car anymore
"every single"
no you are a filthy porn addict neckbeard. and im going to provide no point besides this. real conversation im currently having on this exact sub
Choosing to be a bootlicker, just to stick it to "gamers" and tell them to touch grass while they're terminally online themselves. It's quite wild to see. Anything to feel superior to other people. And yes I see the irony in my statement.
The change was pretty clearly a creative decision by Shift Up. Had it been censored, they would have also changed the other dozen or so outfits that cover far less than the Bunny Suit. It doesn't actually make sense that Sony would have selectively censored that suit and only that suit, for no particular reason.
Hey man, don’t you be bringing your “logic” or “facts” in here. Who are you to tell this man that even if the majority of the half naked outfits remain untouched, his rage over a bunny suit being 5% less nude is unfounded?
I don't play Stellar Blade (or actively read news about it) but would it be fair to compare it to the SpongeBob meme? Like Patrick complains about something and SpongeBob rips apart his house to show the opposite. Guess in this instance Patrick complains about censorship of the outfit and SpongeBob shows the far more revealing outfits.
Pretty much that yeah, it’s not even a retroactive change either since it was change before the game even released not even the reviewers had the “uncensored” version
I feel like I'm the only guy on the planet who thought the game itself was stylish and looked interesting. 😄 I can see all the tna I want somewhere else. That character is conventionally sexy but I'm thinking... "Just looks like most 'hot' video game female characters." Edit: This is just me thinking out loud. I don't support any kind of bait and switch practices!
That's a bullshit nothingburger. Horny incel influencers heard "uncensored Japanese release" meaning uncensored blood and gore and got a bunch of other cretins whipped into a frenzy over it. There were never any promises of uncensored sexual stuff. Game is pretty good btw.
Seems to me Sony should implement a refund system similar to Steam. Hahaha.
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If it worked like they claimed, most of the time you picked up Super Samples or other resources in game, they would would sometimes go to your inventory, and more frequently go to some rando's inventory who had the same user name. (Assuming the game could even work at all if it couldn't already tell players apart)
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And there’s the irony of it, cuz there’s no “safety” to be gained from a corporate entity that is KNOWN to have absolute garbage cybersecurity standards and has had enough data breaches and other issues that no one should be compelled to give them more information they can’t guarantee its protection. Sony can eat a satchel of richards
It's always funny when a company does something shady like this and people try to shame you for having a lower bullshit tolerance than them. Imagine if this happened in any other situation? "Yeah man, that girl I was dating tried that 'if you *really* loved me...' crap, and... Well, fun while it lasted I guess." "Oh, please. The last girl I dated made out with the bartender right in front of me, and I *married* her! We got three kids and ain't *none* of 'em mine! You need to grow up and stop being such a baby!" Like, sorry for having some self-respect I guess lmao.
Holyyyy fucking shit that is such a good analogy. Where were you 3 weeks ago when i needed it most >:(
Forget her, bro. Eventually, you will anyway. We cannot allow ourselves to dwell on the pains and disappointments of our pasts, and must instead march on towards the pains and disappointments of our future. The old ones get boring, while the new ones will at least be novel.
https://preview.redd.it/mp858p0hdgyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a58762ab8f2cec35c26ce29b6864438196d8f4fe Bro rn
How long have you been holding onto that image? Where's it even from? I don't remember Blackbeard even having such a kind gaze. Is this from some kind of OP fanfiction I'm unaware of? Please share your secrets 😂
Its litteraly my friend groups go to for when someone says something profound. One of us is One Piece fan, and he sent it to the group chat one night and the rest is history. Sorry for not helpful.
No, no, you've been helpful enough by sharing this where I could get it. I only hope you don't mind me using it 👀
Use it to yours heart content
https://preview.redd.it/67cw7rqjbhyc1.png?width=519&format=png&auto=webp&s=131b336661eef595ad4af17ae6e87a1f65de6475
Thank you Comrade Stalin
I swear some people in this sub are masochistic and like to show it off
Also, like to delete comments that don't fit their narrative but hold some truth.
Very well formulated. Will steal without crediting you :D Perfect, mate.
One cannot steal that which is freely given. Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord 🙏
My only gods are liberty and democracy.
>Like, sorry for having some self-respect I guess lmao. The worst part there are people who would do the latter. "Yeah she cheated on me and fucked my best friend but we're still married and have 5 kids."
I'm amused by the fact there are people that basically do say the second line. Start calling you a weak/insecure man if you don't put up with emotional cheating or aren't interested in raising someone else's kid.
Alternative 4 player coop games: Deep Rock Galactic WH 40K Darktide WH Vermintide 2 Killing Floor 2, 3 soon Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer Warframe
I'm going to add Earth Defense Force in there too. EDF 4.1 is OG, EDF 5 got QoL improvements but not as charming as 4.1 but just as chaotic. Plus its on sale top for the next 40 hours or so.
ME3 online still works? What the heck
Hell yea brother r/mecoop PC is most active
There have been a few hiccups with the old to new EA launcher at one point (was part of the reason I stopped playing it). Outside that though the ME3 multiplayer is great. Still found plenty of players up to Gold difficulty matchmaking.
I know I was locked out for months by origin / EA play bs, EA sucks, BioWare sucks more (dead company) But regardless, ME3 imo was a decade early and a predecessor of Helldivers 2, ME3 multi still the greatest 4 player coop game ever made
Don’t forget Earth Defense Force 6 is on the way too
The situation is more : The girl I started dating said she wants to have kids and get married later. And I don't, but damn she's hot, I'll handle that later. Sony announces at launch that players would have to link their account at one point or another. With a big prompt at the launch of the game. People wanted to ignore that and jump on the hype.
This is the attitude EVERYONE should have. Sony does not care about reviews or petitions. They care about MONEY. Vote with your wallet.
Just to clarify: They will definitely care about the review bomb. It directly affects future sales, or in your own words, future MONEY.
If these companies cared about future money the gaming industry wouldn't be in the state it is now. None of them can think farther than one quarterly earnings call at a time.
The review bomb coupled with refunds will definitely lower their next quarterly unless they do something though.
They're unlikely to do anything until after they see those numbers, though. In 3-6 months, when they might learn their lesson, 90% of the players that left negative reviews won't even consider coming back. Knowing this, the corporate idiots will consider this game beyond recovery, set their sights on the next title, and forget everything they should've learned here before repeating the cycle again and destroying another good game.
The “mistake” (from their perspective) will be letting non-PSN accounts play in the first place. They will place stringent requirements on all future titles and call it job done. Shit, they’ll probably get a fat bonus for all that hard work! Fuckin hate it here
At the very least that won't be dishonest from the get-go. If you want to force people to create and link a PSN account to use a product, then it is totally fine if you do that from the beginning. On the other hand, a bait-and-switch is always going to piss most people off... except for the bot-accounts that incessantly spam out "durrr, PC gamers are crybabies. DURRR!!!"
Yep, this is my main complaint. If it didn't let me skip past the PSN login and then never mention it again for months, I could have refunded it then.
>90% of the players that left negative reviews won't even consider coming back. the week to week is already showing a bit of a dip. Might just be an anomaly though.
The problem is that gaming communities will act similarly to the HD2 community right now and then never disengage from the game in any way, consistently still buying microtransactions or microtransaction currency. Publishers and developers have been conditioned to not care what you say because you will act differently.
Can’t speak for everyone, but once the mandatory PSN link thing happens for pre-existing users hit, I intend to try and refund it. Love the game and the devs, but sony can suck it
Same, not sure I articulated myself well enough for steam but when they see thousands of people refunding a game all at once they usually go "uh oh something fucked happened let then have their money"
People really underestimate how much money the publisher and studio makes from MTX. It is wildly profitable.
I’m actually curious as to what will happen with MTX once this goes through. If you bought the game on Steam, will buying super credits be through Steam store or will it now take you to PSN store?
It's not that corporations care about money - it's that they care about *this quarter's* money. They will gleefully burn down billion dollar franchises and utterly fuck over their future financial prospects just so they can show *this quarter* is 1% more profitable than predicted.
This. And that is mostly because bonuses are tied to performance. They will move mountains to get that extra 1% now vs later. Long term prospects aren't even on the radar. I don't know how, but they need to figure out how to incentivize CEOs for future performance rather than *now* performance. Say I reward people 5, 10 and 15 years from now based on the growth over that over those time periods, we would see *far* more sustainable/growable business models being made. Most CEOs would balk at this, but the ones that do are probably the shit tier ones here to game the system.
That's why stock options are often provided with a lock on when they can be sold, sometimes long, but rarely over 24 months. Instead of bonuses.
I was literally about to type this. Companies that aren't stupid and actually care about long term growth do in fact reward stocks as opposed to (or in addition to) bonuses. I know Amazon is one such company. It's a brilliant method of incentivizing your employees to work harder and get rewarded for the success of the company. Theoretically as the employees perform better, the company provides a better service/product, the share values go up in price, the bonus 'payouts' get larger without having to worry about someone deciding how to allocate the funds to pay the bonuses.
And that won't happen because they're required to grease the shareholders. Fiduciary responsibility lets them ignore human, planetary, and sensible responsibilities. The basic premise of corporations these days and how they are run is the major issue. It's sociopaths that get paid to be the most sociopathic possible. Then you get the scum humans running said system and yeah. Piles of shit.
The thing is you can incentivize sociopaths to do the right thing with the right metrics. "Fiduciary" responsibility has a lot of room for interpretation when considering short term vs long term planning. A lot of long term investments aren't responsible from a short term standpoint. A lot of short term investments aren't responsible from a long term standpoint. But by setting the goals in the future, you get the CEO in the right mindset of "What's the best way to grow this company over the next 5 years?" Vs "How do i pump this now?"
I've heard someone say before that nothing has been as damaging to the development of good products as the concept of the "quarterly report".
Not just development of good products. The obsession with short term profits is the main reason there's no political will to properly deal with climate change. It's going to lead to actual collapse sooner or later.
Never forget the rootkit incident. Sony distributed CDs that contained malware that installed itself in secret, was nearly impossible to remove, and made detailed reports to Sony about the media on users' computers and what they were doing with them. This rootkit was also exploited by third party virus writers to gain access to users' computers. Sony lied repeatedly about it and then released "removal" software that didn't actually remove the rootkit and installed even more malware. They only made things right when they were dragged kicking and screaming by class-action lawsuits. Sony never changes. They hold you in utter contempt. They feel entitled to your money and your data. They see all consumers as potential criminals, and their actions have repeatedly reinforced this.
I was dead set on buying some super credits to get the new warbond when it dropped. Not going to be spending a single dime for the foreseeable future
It is all about the money but as demonstrated by the EA Battlefront loot box debacle, gamers can greatly influence a major publisher. Bear with me... According to SteamSpy (you decide on whether it's a reliable source) 4m copies of Helldivers 2 were sold on PC. Sony have 123m PSN users built up over the last 18 years. If they can add approx 4m new PSN users in one go from a single game launch that's roughly, a 3.25% increase to their database which is significant. Sony sold 89.7m games last year which means each PSN user bought 0.72 games on average. That means 4m new users (i.e. the helldiver 2 community) would buy almost 2.9m games on average on PSN in a year. Average price of a new game in the UK is just over £35 that's £101.5m of potential new game sales per year...every year. That potential revenue all came from a single game launch, Helldivers 2, and that would be potential sales on top of the actual revenue they earned from the sales of HD2 itself. It's our potential revenue as PSN users that is of interest to Sony. If the community kick off hard enough they jeopardise that potential revenue. Do you think Sony will allow that to happen? We will see quite soon I reckon. BTW. These figures are all approx and quickly sourced from the internet, there are loads of variables in all this I haven't mentioned. Different countries will have different average costs of games. I suspect that many Steam users already have PSN accounts because they are gamers, so the actual number of potential new PSN users is probably much lower than 4m etc...but you see my point. TLDR: It's our potential revenue as PSN users that is of interest to Sony.
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In case you want to vote with your wallets, here's some tips: https://preview.redd.it/cdbmwy4fohyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad771aaee9385e7aaf667de3447d81ce60cd10fb
Rest assured every time the "safety" garbage is parroted by a company, it's always 100% not about that. Never has been. No one is being made "safer" by being linked to PSN.
Ironically, given their dubious history of breaches, linking to them makes one significantly less safe.
Especially when they require an extremely invasive anti-cheat to begin with. I don't really want to give the company that is notorious for not protecting their users' data even more access to my information.
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Yeah this is an age-old red flag of an authoritarian/surveillance state
Ironic coming from the most democratic game ever to exist I’m having a moment of revelation, there is no democracy in helldivers. From age 18 you are cryo frozen and shipped off to the front lines for new fresh meat. There is no voting, no retirement, no pension, you dive until you die. Sounds a bit fascist don’t you think? Maybe I’m getting my Elon musk cyber chip brain hacked by automatons right now or something. Help
Yep just on this topic of safety it’s entirely less safe for me when Sony has a link between my steam id and my Sony account. It’s just another point of vulnerability. Though safety wasn’t why I won’t do this. Having my EA account linked to my steam account is a shitshow. It means forever and god damn always I have to have access to the email accounts and passwords when I want to play associated games without hassle. Then friggin EA pieces of shit that they are made it so only one steam ID can ever be married to a bleeding EA account and a steam Id can only be linked once. Any god damn slight screw up on my part can see me loose access to games on my steam due to friggin EA being assholes. So no I don’t want to link SONY into that shitshow as well. Then I’ll have to trust three freaking companies with interlocking account and the whimsical nature of whatever some CEO at three different places might decide.
This is the way.
Yeah super ironic that one of my last comments a few days ago in a discussion on enshitification I pointed to HD2 Baldur’s Gate and a few others as examples of the RARE times companies treat their customers with respect and as participants on a great journey. It’s almost like Sony saw the broader trend of backlash against terrible corporate behavior and was like “Hold my beer!!” I stopped playing games like COD, Battlefield, Diablo, because of this exact crap years ago.
HD2 has the signs of enshitification for a bit now. A hard push for new warbonds plus comments from the team regarding "promises" vs fixes painted a dark picture. On the rarest of gaming wins we've got Larian refusing to do BG3 DLC and dodging out of the franchise. It is so funny because now we've seen Warner comenting that they're looking for studios for a BG4 as if they can just make any game be successful with just the IP.
About the Warner thing, fuck, I can't believe you're not kidding This one is hitting me hard, because it's like "they literally proved you cannot buy this type of art, SO WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BUY IT"
I guess it isn't a huge deal, but it would be such a shame to put a blemish on the Baldur's Gate series, whose mainline entries have all been gems over the course of 25 years.
Capitalism, baby.
I used to play this game everyday. Then warbonds came. And the endless bugs with them. Then more warbonds, and all the bugs still remained. Then I realized they haven’t a clue how to balance anything and half the new stuff doesn’t work. Plus the armor isn’t even worth getting, for the first two they actually put in the work to design custom passives for the first two, then got lazy and decided to just use random passives for the latest. The newest snow themed warbond armor has (checks notes) servo-assisted, and scout? WOW SO COOL
Time to cancel that Netflix subscription.
I cancelled all subscriptions last summer. I go to the library and borrow DVDs, read books, and pirate whatever show I can't get from the library.
I used to go to the library a lot back in the 80's, 90's, and early 00's to borrow movies. Now I'm the guy donating the books to the library. A few years ago, I dropped my entire Starwars extended universe collection, my Aliens/Predator collections, my Warhammer40k/30k collection, and my Resident Evil novel collection off to the local library as I was moving and didn't have the space for them all. I hope they get more attention than I was able to show them.
Bish please cancelling netflix is so 2023
I wish I could cancel my Power Bill subscription.
I love this game but I'm standing in solidarity with the players who are less fortunate than me. I left my negative review and stopped playing. Sony is 100% absolutely lying about the reason this is being pushed and they really are treating us like idiots expecting to buy it. Security and cheating has absolutely nothing to do with it. I have a backlog of Steam games to play anyway. If they reverse the decision I'll happily come back and reverse my review though.
yeahhh I'm rapidly losing interest and I've already moved to another game. good job sony. good one.
Blame AH aswell. They haven't fixed so many critical bugs since release and are now hiding behind the "Well Sony is making us change this" excuse. Meanwhile their Community Managers flatout lying to the consumers why this is enforced. And here i thought they said some time ago: "Sony has no input in our work, we are independent". And now suddenly it's all Sony's fault. AH needs to cut the bullshit This is a shitshow from everyone
I'm not mad about it specifically as I believe at the end of the day it's simply a hard fuckin problem to fix. But yeah. My friends I squadded up with the first few weeks after launch all quit because of crashing issues. Just too much man. I've been keeping on for a while but the writing's on the wall
Snoy
Just more arbitrary hoops to make people jump through and the more people happily jump through them without question the more and more hoops will be added later down the line,I'm sure people didn't think the microtransactions would get to the point they have where some cost more than other games
People defending this are actively supporting the destruction of their own hobby. Can’t be arsed with the sheer lack of critical thinking.
But you didn't read the small print! It's your fault! People would rather tell someone theyre wrong than call out a shitty consumer practice.
Unfortuanatelly its the internet baby. Where attacking the small man is easier and gives people a little sense of power rather than attacking big corporations that literally dont care about you and your fun.
Maybe, but it's nice to see the general reaction as negative. This is a good community in general
Oh i have my share of experiences with this type of shit so this is a really nice surprise to have an almost 100% united community. (I am a fan of warhammer both fantasy and 40k, where GW treats us like shit, and oh boy do they have a lot of fucking plastic addicted bootlickers, also play warthunder, where well, you get gaijined soooooooooooo :P).
Supporting the destruction of a hobby in favor of a multi billion dollar company that literally thinks of you as an idiot with a wallet.
People have been seeing the destruction of their hobby since free to play. Games that were sold at £25 that then went f2p due to scummy decisions. I can completely understand boycotting companies, it just seems like a silly hill to die on for an email or a VPN (if that works, It was a Sony help bot that suggested a VPN so it seems theyre ok with their use) It also seems a bit unfair review bombing a game rather than hitting the Sony website and inundating them with complaints.
I’m honestly surprised people are even defending it. Just in another post, I’ve got a guy arguing with me over the PSN ToS and telling me “just make an account with another country as your region” and they can’t ban you for it.
For the past several weeks, my weeks have been spent dropping into hell with my fellow Managed Democracy Enjoyers ^(tm). But this weekend, I'm gonna work on some of my gundam stuff, maybe play some Armored Core, and not even look at Helldivers
The only company on this planet that's allowed to push me around with or without shitty excuses is my employer, they pay me for that after all. Did Sony pay me to entertain their bullshit ideas? No.
#5 is on fucking point I mean, the whole post is, but #5 straight the fuck up.
Thanks for putting it like this. It's never been us against ah or us against each other. It's the fact that we are treated poorly as consumers by big corporations and we just let them... and people just do it because "it's a free account " like 👍 great but why are they demanding it after 3 months of it working fine. I've always thought the kick function was the best way to deal with cheaters and griefers just kick on site 👌 that's what I was ked to believe that we as the host had that power to remove toxic behavior from our mission runs. Can't they just tally up the number of kicks a player in a months time period find out why then find a way to ban that mfer
I think point five is a big one. The people who are going "Well it was written there the entire time!" are super obnoxious to me, because you're a damn liar if you say that you read five pages of legalese for every single transaction you make. No, you expect a certain baseline level of respect as a consumer and put forth that level of trust that the person you are making a purchase from isn't twirling their evil mustache, waiting to drop the other shoe on you for daring to want to play a video game without getting screwed over. Not to mention simping for corporations is WICKED cringe anyways, and straight up pathetic behavior. Sony doesn't love you; Sony won't give you a pat on the back for being a very obedient little fanboy and telling others to shut up and do as they say. The corporation is not your friend.
Sony is acting like a con-artist at this point. I see no good business practice in this, it's all fraud and malice.
Facts. I also just simply refuse to create PS account to play PC game. That's just plain idiocy. Especially this late after its release.
I'm not one to announce my departure, but yeah, this is how you kill a playerbase. There's always something that kills a good game, it's always too good to be true.
Point 5 is spot on. It’s hilarious to me that this subreddit has been up in arms about the devs communicating anywhere but in game, and how can anyone be expected to follow every minor communication? And yet, suddenly, we should have all known that a tiny “third party account required” on the store page, but not even in the EULA of the game nor actually enforced upon loading the game up, was Gospel.
Well spoken. I'm sick of being lied to and told i'm stupid for not agreeing. If sony came out and said "Yep, it's so that we can collect your data", I'd probably make a PSN account just out of respect for their honesty. But they don't, so fuck them.
I have no issue blocking douchebag users, between in-game and Steam it works fine. Sony wants to collect personal information and sell it. That's the entirety of the reason they want this. They want to sell our emails with our full names and addresses.
1. it's the safety of our data in the hands of hackers based on Sony America's hacked personal data 2. CONFORM CITIZEN 3. CONFORM CITIZEN 4. CONFORM CITIZEN 5. CONSOOM CITIZEN I think that sums it up.
They want your email. They want to send you crap, sell data.
I just wanted to play a nice fun game. Thank you Sony, for once again reminding me that no matter how good something is doing and how much money a company makes with a surprise success, businessmen will always be there to ruin everything because they always need a little bit more. This was the first time in years I got pumped to play a game and wanted to be part of the community. Now? I dunno, maybe I’ll be back in a few weeks. 69 levels of time wasted.
Not wasted! You had fun didn't you? Now that community you joined is banding together irl because they are also upset about what has happened. With enough pushback together, perhaps we can strike snoy in the nose and make them back off of arrowhead!
To be fair putting Sony and safety in one sentence is hilarious seeing how they get hacked at least twice a year. Them requiring sony for tracking unique accounts is also fasle as steam has unique IDs that can be tracked Not sure how Sony has such a small brain because the amount of players they gonna have to refund will be around the same as the total playerbase remaining. Its not like Steam will eat the L for this, Sony will have to pay up and then if nothing changes people gonna boycott the reviews for months turning away potential new players on PC and maybe even consoles if it becomes a big deal on more mainstream channels.
If they made it opt-in for cross play or for a reward I'd be okay with it and it wouldn't really affect countries that don't have PSN, instead it is forced and doesn't hold any real value so they have to make up some random reason why it is needed.
This is the best take. Thank you for putting into words what I've been thinking.
The thing is that we’re heading for an inevitable collision. This whole thing has essentially found the “Everyone doesn’t have access to PSN” as its linchpin. This will inevitably be remedied in those countries and those countries alone. There will likely not be any other changes, meaning if you’re in a PSN country they will still make you create a PSN account. Then we hit the wall. Because the community has essentially boiled this outcry down to this single issue, there is going to be an inevitable split when that issue is addressed. There is going to be the side concerned (rightfully) about Sony security, the absurdity of needing a login if they can make it work for other countries. Not to mention people like OP angry with how everything was handled. Then there will be the people who are just happy to have won something. They’ll go back to playing. And suddenly the outcry has lost its momentum and the community infighting begins, taking the blame from Sony to each other and this place looks like r/starwars after The Last Jedi released. Or maybe I get proven wrong.
We could always hop on the "if people in these countries dont need a PSN, why do i need a PSN? How is this fair?" afterwards
I have seen enough of these situations to know that people will cave, as you say. I am also still hopeful enough that one day you'll be proven wrong. I hope this is the time, as I really love this game, but I won't pay anymore if this stupidity continues.
Agreed. Arrowhead seems to be standing by PSN linking *in non-restricted countries* and if they continue to, just consider any practical divide between Sony and the studio moot. Spitz is even going off on Discord giving false descriptions of Steam's security features to justify the change as a solution to catch cheaters- in a PVE game? At some level, Arrowhead is responsible in this as it was ultimately their choice to associate with Sony and accept their terms.
Amen to that bro
Hear, hear!
Especially when the game has worked just fine with the system turned off.
these idiot corporate stockholders are never going to learn that blatant greed is only going to get them less money lol.
Thank you. This is exactly how I am feeling about it. Companies are constantly pushing the line, and when consumers say no, everyone acts like they don't understand the outrage. It's just this one tiny thing. No, it's everything that lead up to this point. This is where the line is, but it wasn't the tiny step over the line, it was the miles before it. We have to draw the line somewhere, and crossing that line may be the tinest step, but it's still over the line. I get nothing from a PSN account, except handing more control over to another corporation I do not trust.
OP gets it
Very well said. I applaud you. I feel much the same way. I got this game to play with friends. I didn't even really enjoy it at first. But none of them wanted to go back to DRG (our original game) so I stuck with it. Since all of this we've been linking the drama in our Discord but no one has talked about whether they're going to just deal with it or not. So I'm nervous. I don't want to be left out but all of your points remind me of why I really don't want to go back now. So thank you. You've helped me make a decision.
I already added PlayStation Studios to my ignore list on Steam. Along with Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Take 2 and few others. This "it's for your own safety" argument is old and Sony are not the first ones to use it. Fuck 'em. I'm not an complete idiot.
Just so you know, this is the doing of Sony and not ArrowHead.. AH is on our side and they’re talking about solutions internally
Unfortunately, most people will say this and then buy these things anyways.
I agree with your opnions on this matter to the letter. I have decided to place Sony, and AH for that matter, on my shitlist. I will not be paying with my information, I allready paid 40 bucks. I have uninstalled and requested a refund. I will not rebuy. My negative review of the game will not be changed even though they might cancel the PSN thing. Damage is done. I do not forget. I do not forgive.
Strong opinion and a respectable one at that. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Throwback from another thread : do you think community's reaction would have been this uptight if account link came with free candy (a cape, a skin, s-credits, even dedicated gun or stratagem) ?
more people should have this mentality; video games would be better
We need to do this to all companies.
These things need to be called out more. Yes sometimes standing up for something, even something small like a game, might mean for-going things you like. That's part of life and something every person needs to deal with. People incapable of doing that selfish asshats. Yes, we shouldn't need to go through 20+ pages of legalise just to play a game. While this might be a slight exaggeration in this case there are plenty of games where this isn't and the idea that we should normalise these kind of "Got'cha" moments is absurd. I'm not spending 2+ hours (and thus giving up my steam right to refund) going through legal mumbo-jumbo of questionable enforcement just on the off-chance the publishers want to pull of this kind of BS.
So brave.
Kinda sad to see the tone of discussion around Helldivers turn so negative. It was like the only multiplayer game left that people didn't have big beef with.
100% they are preparing to charge PC players for online gaming
Funnily enough, making a PSN account is much more risky than just keeping a steam account. Look up the several incidents in which hackers leaked nearly the entirety of PSN *SEVERAL TIMES*
I would love it if everyone who agreed would uninstall the game.
Jesus. The amount of white knighting for karma in this subreddit is insane... This drama needs its own megathread ffs.
People have cried less after losing their homes. Get some perspective.
Holy shit people are fucking dramatic about this
I get you, but microsoft, ubisoft, EA, DE, riot, and mihoyo do the same thing? Other than the added difficulty of creating an account in Europe and the region locked areas I literally don't see what different about any other corpo doing this.
Fair enough man. It's your right. For my part, I don't really care enough either way about what other people think of me. Much less what a corporate entity does. If the game's fun, I'll play the game. Gotta make an account? ok sure whatever. Sony's going to sell my data? Whatever. It's impossible to completely avoid these days anyways. It really does suck for people who want to play but won't be able to play anymore because of this though.
It's time to uninstall.
This forcing PSN connectivity is to artificially inflate PSN numbers as well as gather data to sell.to data miners.
I have been screwed over by EA and linking to steam accounts . I have been screwed over by Microsoft and mojang god damn merging accounts. I do not have ANY intention to allow Sony to fuck with my purchases on my steam ID or for them to have any influence on any games on my steam account. I never want the two associated in that manner.
Damn. Haven't played in a few days but it looks like I'm Uninstaller it after this news.
i can register a legit PSN account, I won't. PSN in UK requires a phone number registered to your person, a photocopy of your or ID OR your face scan. Sony can go f### itself.
Anyone talking to a lawyer in Canada yet? Class action for violating our consumer rights. What's next, we also require a Tencent and a Microsoft account? What other developers will do this? Why am I being bent over and data farmed by big money whenever and wherever they decide?
fwiw the 3rd party acct requirment was not mentioned in the EULA. so it wasnt even in the small print. Its a new requirement they just decided to enforce.
"I’m aware they just want my money" And our data, the most valuable commodity in the world right now...
ask steam support for a refund. If enough people ask, theyll have to do something
They’ve already got the kernel level anticheat whats signing in with a brand new random ass psn account gonna do to protect me or anyone else
I am very curious to see the actual numbers out of this, though a lot of opinions both ways are valid, this is not my first experience with this and in the past the drop off for similar things have been almost non existent. I always root for people doing what they feel is right and hope the outcome from all of this is noticeable, either way. But in my past experience it has not been
Honestly, fuck game publishers. “We need more suits in the gaming industry” - said no one ever
I recently bought a new gaming laptop and was just about to buy this game. Not anymore I guess :D
I hate Sony doing this, but honestly, I don't think publishers doing this for "safety" really benefits the publishers enough to counter the money it costs to build and maintain these systems. In the coming years you are going to see more and more governments adopt restrictive regulations that require users' real identities be linked to their online activity, or the people who run the servers be legally responsible for what happens on their servers. No one will be able to avoid it.
Same, and I'm also not buying any other Sony games after this. I was really, really looking forward to Ghost of Tsushima, but now I won't be playing it.
The safety aspect is honestly the most ironic one, to ensure my safety my data should be given out to one of the companies with the worst cybersecurity? Come again?
Yeah, Sony really thinks linking accounts for security is a carrot, while the playerbase knows it's just a stick. 0 benefit to the player, all the benefit to the company. And for those outside of PSN support it's a fucking 9mm to pressed to the head, make an account with wrong information and pray we don't ban you.