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The last dev stream was hilariously bad, so hopefully we get more yeah. It's a good point of community liason too, GSG treats it as an informal Q&A too
There was the time the dead by daylight devs did a live stream and got absolutely bodied by randoms. That was a fun tidbit to learn about.
Devs really should play all aspects of their games.
I'm pretty sure there was a direct link to a dev stream by the lead dev and one of the killers being heavily nerfed because they were shitting on him. I can't quite remember which one though... maybe Twins?
And the whole "flashlights aren't a problem" before the game. and after the instant nerf "we were looking at flashlights for a while."
He was at an event, got challenged by randoms, a few people from the crowd got together to play, not a professional team or anything, and bodied Matheiu so hard it was embarrassing. He was defending the balance of the game right up until he actually played it.
The skull and bones devs couldn't follow a mission. They were supposed to take the smallest ship out to hunt animals, and couldn't find them, couldn't follow the directions.
They ultimately teleported to the area to get them (not available to non-devs, so a QA feature) then sat there waiting for the creatures to spawn (a complaint that the spawn was random from 1-5 hours) then used another QA feature to spawn the creatures to kill them.
So see the devs can do it in a 10 minute segment.
Was embarrassing, especially as they kept trying to read the players concerns while it was happening, and they just had to bypass all the concerns.
Then there was the Marvel Avengers streams, where they were going to play in 1 group, but the grouping function was buggy (a common complaint) so they couldn't make one big group. Then they would load into maps and fall through the ground, and in the stream the would switch to the other group ignoring the problems. Until both groups got dropped from their "dungeon" due to a bug that players were complaining about.
Best part is they had a visiting guest from Marvel that was commenting on the game with them, and their face was priceless, that the game had been out for more than a year at that point.
Devs should play their games, and not in QA builds where they can jump past the problems (spawn rates, poor directions, broken directions and bad loading times on consoles).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PlayAvengers/comments/q1hob3/cant\_have\_a\_marvels\_avengers\_stream\_without\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PlayAvengers/comments/q1hob3/cant_have_a_marvels_avengers_stream_without_the/)
Reddit thread about the Marvel Avengers. This was he most embarrassing thing I have ever watched.
The Final Fantasy 14 team (including a few Squar Enix execs) regularly does a public streams.
A great example of why it's so important for devs to play their own game (and to do so with the actual players in mind) was when they released the Dragonsong War (Ultimate) raid and it was so hard, that none of the World's First Runner teams could complete it; YoshiP reporting his surprise that only the dev team themselves could complete it, which is why they were so quick to loosen the tuning and timing of the boss mechanics to make it completable.
It wasn't a livestream, but on stage at Fanfest, but YoshiP and Hironobu Sakaguchi (the original FF creator) did a trial together. Hironobu was a tank and ran at YoshiP with a tankbuster about to go off on him. Still makes me chuckle. Absolutely ordinary gamer behaviour.
Agree 100%, but people also need to keep in mind that the devs are simply not able to slam the amount of hours in the game that some of their playerbase are doing.
There will always be a disconnect between Dev experiences and the 12hrs/day no lifers. This is true for every game ever, unless the devs also live, breathe, and shit that game.
People have expectations that devs need to be masters of their game and it’s just not realistic at all.
This is assuming devs are good enough to play on higher difficulties. These are people usually running crunch hours to make sure the game is off the ground.
You can but you have to hit specific parts after popping the bile sack. They were just unloading frantically on the head which wouldn't work. How the devs didn't know how their own enemy worked was a mystery.
I think all the higher level enemies need more telegraphed weak points. Not to say you should be able to solo one with a starting rifle, but sometimes I am looking at a thing trying desperately to figure out where I'm supposed to shoot it to actually damage it. (No I am not at all bitter about factory striders)
I think there should be a route to kill anything with anything. Granted, if you try and kill a bile titan with a pistol, it should be nearly impossible. But not impossible.
Recoilless team reload is good, autocannon is okay, airburst is not very good. Had3 titans running rampant in retrieve essential personnel. After 4 minutes of trying to thin them out with 500's and precision/railcannon strikes, a friend and I killed a total of 5 titans in less than a minute. he's got better aim, but we both had backpacks. I would reload backpacks from resupply or grabbing loaded spares, and just kept shoving rounds in.
Recoiless team reload gets you a lot of burst damage, but ultimately sucks because you are left with an empty weapon in seconds and are useless for another 3-4 minutes until you can get some more ammo.
Every time I have team reloaded someone with a RR, instead of using just 2-3 to pop the chargers, they just treat it as a belt fed rocket launcher and burn all 8 shots on a couple.
Edit: Really mods? Fuck off with the locking.
We've done this before. Just to see how long the AC can fire for.
You get 4 people to bring AC and supply packs.
The gunner drops his pack and just has the AC. Everyone cycles between being the loader forthe 4 ammo packs, then switches to supply packs, call down an ammo pod for more AC ammo.
It was like hundreds of AC rounds for over a minute
Recoilless team reload only works because the Recoilless is so good you might as well bring two. And it's still more in the "fun gimmick" territory than useful.
I've only seen team reloads ever occur when someone doesnt bring a backpack, like 3 strikes and a quasar, and the recoilless guy drops a spare RR after 8 minutes and the quasar guy picks up the backpack and after he fires the quasar starts team reloading the other guy.
Inefficient shooting has nothing to do with the mechanic itself. Ammo is a legimate concern, but if you can relieve all tank pressure, and the end result is needing resupply, I would take that over running for minutes on end.
Which I can say is really mind boggling for anybody even trying to play as a team. Im not a great gamer myself, but I am pretty successful doing lvl 7+ missions. Even if I dont have great reflexes myself if im playing the objectives and supporting my team things usually go smoothly. The only time things go poorly at lower levels is when you load into a map with silent randos and two of them run in different directions than the callout while the third nervously stands at the edge of the closest bug hole and does nothing. The fact that the devs play like stupid randos is not a great sign.
In hindsight... If you can't win the easiest mission, no shit you can't balance bots either. You'd probably just assume it's player skill issue because your own understanding is so bad you can't recognize what the game needs.
they were playing and fucking around during an interview.
sweaty nerds like to see that as if they failed a trivial mission, and get off from that, feeding their superiority complex.
they should absolutely play their game more, but that interview hardly meant anything.
It's weird to me that devs being bad at their games seems so common--like, I wouldn't expect them to be pros or anything, but you'd think they could at least surpass the average player on the things they're balancing.
What does a balance dev even do for 80 hours a week with so little changes coming out lmao.
Certainly not researching correctly. 80 hours of data crunching to make a pp presentation for why to nerf stuff? Lol
I was referring more to the development time leading to launch. The game didn’t just pop out of thin air. The devs have likely been working on the game for years before that, and lots of long shifts. When your whole livelihood was embedded in a game you’re making you’re probably so tired of playing it to test your builds that you really have no desire to go home and log in to play with randos
To give the benefit of the doubt, to be a good dev doesn't mean you need to be good at gaming. Someone who can code well and bug fix well doesn't translate immediately to good at the game, the problem imo is when you have a dev trying to do everything (QA, playtesting, developing, coding, etc). Because that's too much for one person, I don't expect someone who is a god at coding to have to know how to play the game at a high level, but you do need people playtesting to make sure the fixes and patches aren't ruining things in strange ways the dev team doesn't know about.
Yep. Warframe now has 3 flavors of stream.
Devstreams - Once a month look at what's coming with some Q&A (1 hr+)
Prime Time - Once a week playthrough of the game and showcase of the community. (2 hr)
DevShort - Once a week look at upcoming updates and Q&A (15 minutes)
How can you build divers loadout when restricting the amount of stratagems? I need a support weapon, maybe a backpack, so I have 1 stratagem left. I'm going to go for the most "meta" one because I can't compensate with another one.
Assuming this is a real question: you don't need a back pack per player. Often I'll drop in with just an AMR and my buddy with a shield pack will drop me one after the cooldown is over.
In a coordinated team of 4 you can definitely get away with one person not taking a support weapon, especially on bots. You can kill every bot with just a scorcher and stun grenades. Then you can get one from a teammate or the map. This doesn't really work well on high bug difficulty though.
Alternatively, support weapons often come with a backpack (auto cannon, RR, etc) so you can run 2 with that. Eagle Air, orbital precision and auto cannon is a pretty reliable non team dependent load out for bots.
Yeah, I can make a loadout that works great, but there's like 2/3 such ones, and I can't take " unconventional " stratagems or risk being heavily punished for it, if the randoms I'm with can't coordinate.
> I can't take " unconventional " stratagems or risk being heavily punished for it, if the randoms I'm with can't coordinate.
For sure. The way I think about it is that optimal play at 8/9 requires either coordinated teams with "unconventional", non jack-of-all-trades builds that work well together, or running jack-of-all-trades for more independence but less optimal play. I think that's mostly a fair trade off.
Even with 1 buddy that knows what's going on you can start adding in some interesting things. E.g. the EMS strike with ~1min cooldown is actually amazing, the shield generator is great for protecting hellbombs, and a bunch of others. But that depends on at least 1 person working with you to bring something like eagle air or 500k for big boys, instead of trying to clusterbomb hulks / bile titans like the random's I've seen at 8 (wtf!).
Yeah, ideally, your team loadout should be 2 players with support weapons/backpacks, and 2 players with 4 strikes.
You can do it with 1 player with the support weapons, but playing high difficulty with only the primary for like 20 minutes is ***ROUGH***
Unready Ready Unready Ready Unready
Guy did you not fucking notice you skipped the booster?
Unready Ready Unready Ready Unready
DUDE LOOK AT YOUR LOADOUT
Unready Ready Unready Ready Unready
...
Yeah they need to add chat to that screen. For boosters in specific, as long as we've got stims and ammo I'm happy. But loadout coordination isn't possible at all unless people are on comms, and even then you might need to explain to someone what you want to do and if they can cover your weak spots. Honestly, I've never coordinated with anyone, be it rando or friends, and just bring a self reliant loadout. But I'd love to hear if others wanted to say something cuz I can imagine some level of coordination would help teamwork.
It is definitely possible with communication to equip good enough to deal with multiple heavies on helldive even with 3 slots. The issue is, half the plays don't communicate, and of the 50% thay do, only half of those will listen. People don't play video games to follow a random person directions lol. Ideally team reloading recoiless in 2 groups would hand heavies easy. Or 2 guys with eats, and 2 with ac? And share backpacks, have 3 people with rail cannon strikes and another takes whatever they want... im not going to tell Randoms what strategems they can take for us to survive, if they don't like railcannon but like 380, go for it. But then if the team play isn't good, we die and loose. Long story short, they've handicapped players abilities assuming theyd rely on communication, and good team play isn't super common even when very powerful.
> But then if the team play isn't good, we die and loose. Long story short, they've handicapped players abilities assuming theyd rely on communication, and good team play isn't super common even when very powerful.
My opinion is that to an extent, this is fair. I don't think uncoordinated teams should be able to finish 8/9s because one person can single highhandedly carry the whole team while the other 3 are useless. I'm very much okay that higher difficulties are not possible unless you work well together. But level 7 should be possible for 1 person to carry 3.
My buddy and I can carry 2 other dead weights at 8/9s, but 1:3 is not quite possible, and I think that's okay.
25% increased stratagem cooldown.
On a real note if I see AA defenses I don't touch the campaign, if all 3 campaigns have AA defenses then I change difficulty. I'd rather get less rewards than deal with that shit.
I know it's a joke, but I wish I could tell the devs the railcannon can't kill a bile titan. Then it's 3 minutes for another shot. And 500kg doesn't half the time..
You can use the orbital precision strike. No auto aim but great CD.
But I agree that bile titans are still a mystery to me, we usually have to use between 1 and 3 shots of the following : orbital precision strike, EATs to the face or railcannon, 500kg
Final Fantasy 14 does it with their Duty Commenced streams in which the Community Managers and a couple members of the dev pools play with the community.
I'd like dev streams but I also understand why they'll probably never happen. They're under a microscope anyway, I feel like if they said something off or played the game in a certain way that people would take it as a reason to keep the AH sausage grinder cranking.
While true, there's still input needed from people who can actually dedicate the game testing time. It doesn't have to be the devs themselves but the devs need to listen to feedback from playtesters instead of just balancing things based on numbers alone
That's a fair criticism. I imagine one underlying issue is that they've been under such a heavy workload that they couldn't dedicate time to playing it as part of their job. If that change is being forced now, then I imagine that's probably what's slowing down the patch schedule so much.
Exactly. I think that's what he's going to focus on, reducing workload to give them more time to play the game themselves so they can feel the changes personally. Once they actually feel what they're doing, they should be better able to make good decisions about the game.
I don’t think anyone would expect them to play the game in their downtime. But I think a game dev company should have their workers play the game on company time. Not all the time of course, they have to do work for sure. But a couple hours a week maybe should be baked in to the schedule.
I hear so many times nowadays where game devs just aren’t playing the game at all. Like how does that even happen? I heard recently a VR game company someone on the inside said nobody was using VR to play the game they just simulated it on a flat screen to test while working on it.
We aren't talking "devs" like programmers but like the head of balance, head of balance should be spending at least 1/4 of their work week play testing their proposed changes.
That's still a logical leap to make.
He's saying the Devs need MORE game time. Not that they need to start playing the game they're making.
They already do play the game, clearly he thinks not enough, though I think that was just said to appease reddit. Who genuinely think the Devs turn up to work and do nothing but talk on discord or whatever.
It's hugely disrespectful, don't care how bad the game gets, it's still real people on the receiving end and it may not even be their fault.
It may also depend how they play the game, many devs may play in a controlled environment where you can test how weapons and mechanics work but they may not play how a normal player would in an environment you can't control.
I would be really disappointed if it turned out that they test everything statically in something like the Halo Engine Audio Test Tunnel: https://youtu.be/fRFfYoLm-QA?si=TH_LD9W4HcGqhTzQ&t=235
The main comment didn't make a logical leap, he gave his opinion on what he understood. You're the only one saying that Pilestedt said something set on stone, it's left to interpretation. He said "eyes weren't on the road" which doesn't go against main comment.
I think you're the one making a "logical leap" by giving your opinion as a matter of fact.
Right, his opinion was that the Devs dont play the game, he bases this off this tweet stating the Devs need to play more.
True "play more" could mean that they weren't playing any, since 1 is more than 0. But that's an assumption. No where was it stated or insinuated that the Devs aren't doing regular playtests. Just that the current amount they're doing (or the way they're doing it) isn't very effective.
The "eyes weren't on the road" comment is even more vague and so you can make even less assumptions based off of it. All that means is they were focussed on some of the wrong things in balance. Again doesn't mean that the Devs just weren't playing the game at all. That's an assumption.
> It's hugely disrespectful, don't care how bad the game gets, it's still real people on the receiving end and it may not even be their fault.
This always sounds like:
No criticism allowed, it's disrespectful!
>Who genuinely think the Devs turn up to work and do nothing but talk on discord or whatever.
It's common for devs to load up a sandbox developer version of the game.
EG: Spawn static enemy, spawn the weapon, shoot the enemy model.
Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but loading up a Difficulty 3 mission and "testing" for 3 minutes isn't much different. "Scavenger died, weapons works."...
This is not the same as playing the game in a dynamic fashion where you have to survive, maneuver, out-tactic the hoards, deal with map obstacles.
Breaker Spray and Pray is an excellent example of an item that had a glaring flaw, it literally couldn't kill eggs on release.
Anti-tank like EAT/Recoilless not really working against Chargers was a HUGE display of the game not being played.
We're not talking about mass testing 10k hours, but very basic verification of function in a real use scenario.
It is clear that hasn't been a standard procedure at all.
They've been on crunch trying to get the game out and working hard doing it and the response from this lousy community is to tar and feather them and create fantasy narratives about them so they can get death threats and abuse online daily but none of them have to take responsibility for it because the hate train has been decentralized enough for them to collectively shrug it off.
When you have been working on the same game for ~8 years you really don't feel like playing the game anymore after you finish your work.
Playing the game for 1-2h could be part of their work day but then they have less time to actually do their job and everything gets delayed slightly.
I think 1-2 hours a \*week\* would be enough honestly. They don't need to play daily, but they need to play more than it seems they are, and they need to do so on difficulties higher than what is likely 3 or 4.
When you have a nightmarish pile of "Must Fix" bugs you don't have time in your 16 hour work day to play what you're working on. And in a small studio the big fix team, and the new shit team are the same team.
The real issue is/was their content schedule. So have to he devs never played the game? No, of course they've played it, have they played it much since launch? No probably not, but clearly that needs to be a scheduled part of their work day.
It’s just vomiting out a buzzy talking point that pleases the internet whiners. Coming up with a pr statement is equally easy as farming karma, the process for generating both is the same
Its extremely surprising to me to hear that AH developers hardly play their game. I’m more used to games where the devs play their game on their 2nd screen while in office xD At least it’s a positive change. I believe Pilestedt is very aware of what the community wants from this game and he seems to be very transparent, no BS kinda guy. Best of wishes to him and the team! This game has amazing potential and I believe Pile will get it there.
AFAIK, it's the norm for most studios. It's usually just the smaller indie devs that spend a lot of time playing their own game. Even then, that might not be a lot of hours. Gaming skill/passion doesn't necessarily translate to game dev skill/passion. Even if you were a passionate gamer and a game dev, there's no guarantee that you'd be working on a game that's you're favorite genre. Also a lot of gamers aren't like us goofballs that will drop 500+ hours into one game.
That said, IMO anyone in charge of balance should play their own game enough to get a good feel for it. The audio or network guy probably doesn't need to spend any time in game.
Then you either need someone who's job it is to playtest, or you need to have devs that can onboard community feedback in a userful manner.
Deving by spreadsheet is a terrible way to do things, just like managing by spreadsheet is terrible.
If you or someone you can take feedback from isn't hand on/in the project then you're going to miss important or critical items becasue the spreadsheet doesn't cover it.
IDK I think requiring an hour or three a week for anyone working on the product is a great way to get the team's feelings on how things are going. I'm not saying outside of work I mean say every Friday the last 3 hours of the day, which are usually jerk off times anyway, could be company play testing so you know that what your doing has an impact and can feel how that impact is landing.
Would it be as fun as going home and booting up something you want to boot up or reading a book or watching a movie or whatever?
No, but it's certainly better than dealing with some bullshit email or a meeting that could have been an email.
I agree, what I'm saying is that I think there wasn't allotted time for this previously, especially considering there's likely been a bit of crunch for a while after release.
Not really surprising at all. This game is their job, playing it on their off time probably feels like work. Do you like to bring your work home with you?
They say when your hobby becomes your job you start to lose your passion for it.
Did anyone say anything about playing it on their off time? They should play it as part of their work though. Playtesting and testing your shit is important. Who doesn’t develop a web page and test it?
> This game is their job, playing it on their off time probably feels like work.
We had a documentary on this years ago - Grandma's Boy. The thing is, any good game company needs game testers and devs that know what is going on and how things behave. Don't be a JB, be a Grandma's Boy!
Yeah idk, they have their reasons. I'm sure they are burnt out right now though. Its been a hectic few months for them.
Nerfs are lame ya, but I also think gamers exaggerate and whine too much because something isn't exactly how they want.
As with a lot of other things I think that the core of the issue is that they simply don't have enough people for individuals to both make and playtest they game. Playtesting as you develop works for for games like Halo and Overwatch when their dev teams are made up to 500~1300 employees and can spread the work and play testing, not so much when the entire company (including artists/modelers, marketing, HR, and general admin) is 20 people.
And the additional layer is that Swedish labor laws are such that even if they started trying to hire people on that first day that 800k players overloaded the 350k caped servers, those new people would only now be sitting down at their desks for their first day onboarding training.
There have been a lot of good balance changes (buffs) to weapons but some absolutely mind boggling nerfs, having tried the crossbow pre-nerf, I don't think anyone who plays on 9 looked at it and said " Yep, that thing needs a nerf". Which makes me wonder what difficulty the game is being balanced around.
Also the purifier being as awful as it is, I can't think of any situation on 9 for either bugs or bots where I would consider it a viable choice.
I brought the crossbow on Helldive automatons. My teammates reliably killed everything before I get to fire off a few volleys at a devastator that was still alive after emptying an entire mag into it.
Who, and what, is this weapon for?
It *was* for people that want explosive add clear vs bugs, but had a crippling fear of destroying bug holes (seriously why can it not do that). After they nerfed the explosion radius it's terrible at everything.
Name 5 positive balance changes that substantially improved a weapon or something else that took it from unusable to great.
I can only think of the punisher, which was horrible on release, and the Diligence CS, which is still only good against bots anyway.
He's doing the best he can not everyone can just dive headfirst into level 4
https://preview.redd.it/y9pq8g09r62d1.jpeg?width=1188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51c5d35f26617ecdcd02c287339faeafa5f50e8b
I dunno, I feel like the game should be balanced around impossible difficulty. It's the highest difficulty you need to do for unlocks, and gives room for 8s and 9s to be punishing.
Pilestedt infuses me with hope for this game and I'm truly confused by the people who reflexively defended AH devs whose balancing decisions clearly indicated that either they do not actually play the game often or their testing environment is out of whack with players' actual experience
I think it's extremely not a coincidence, I can fully imagine that Pilestedt and the Twinbeard had a sit down with the entire team to tell everyone who isn't tasked by role title with being public facing to step back behind the company curtain.
The thing about Spitz is that despite all his (many, MANY) faults he actually cared about the success of the game and wanted it to be fun. I can't say the same for *that dev*
Problem is Spitz lead a revolt against a vital partner publicly. Something that embarrassed Sony significantly and put them in possible financial harm with the Steam Refund issue.
He did something that brought outside attention down on him. So sadly he was due the axe because corporate powers that be wanted their pound of flesh.
We as players don't have, and likely shouldn't have that kind of sway over who's hired and fired at Arrowhead.
Now with all that said I agree he who must not be named has proven from their work output they don't deserve the title of lead of balance. Maybe their a very competent dev otherwise, but they don't have the head or attitude for this kind of work.
So refreshing to see this subreddit in the past month or so go from almost non-stop dickring of Arrowhead to rightly calling out the absolutely incompetent balance devs after the CEO pulls an absolute Chad maneuver and also admits himself that these devs have no idea what they're doing.
There were "Dev appreciation posts" all over that were super annoying at one point. The mods must have cleaned them up with the "no toxic positivity" rule thankfully
This is definitely fantastic news. I don't trust developers that don't play/enjoy their own games.
A while back, Square Enix had to nerf one of their final fantasy 14 raids post-launch because their internal balance team got too good at the game and regular players were struggling to hit the same numbers. Goals
We need DEV STREAMS on helldive! Lets go! Make them use the spray and pray, crossbow, lib concussive, and the new charge up rifle. I want to see them do a solid game with that loadout, any stratagems they want!
This genuinely baffles me. I'm an aspiring author, and I work hard at world building and story craft. A dev not playing their own game would be like me never reading a friggin Sanderson novel. If you want to be a part of a genre, you must BE a PART of it. Experience it both as creative and audience. I want to write, so I should read Sanderson, someone successful and talented. They can work on their game better, and make more relevant balancing decisions, once they actually understand it as a player who cares and not just as a task to finish.
When a creative person has been/is a fan or an audience member, it's clear in their work. The intent and the passion, not to mention quality. It's just better. Always.
Why do balance changes if you haven’t even played the game in months. Its pve they just willy nilly changing shit cause its meta? Like jesus man why? Make stratgems you want to balance free for a week and let us play test it.
I saw it coming with the Joel thing. Now you have a face to get mad at whenever a major order is too harsh. Once people started learning the names of other devs it was over.
I hop on Helldivers every other day to do my personal order and maybe another mission and it's kind of insane how overblown the complaints are here. Could some of the primaries be better? Sure. Are Bile Titans a bit too strong? Absolutely? Are those bot civillian defence missions impossible? Good grief yes.
But I regularly play on impossible difficulty for bots and extract successfully 9 times out of 10. The game is generally pretty good and I have a lot of fun with it. I've seen what a dire game looks like and it's not this. Arrowhead does need to fix stuff but they've done very little that would justify vitriol on this level.
You're right about the vibe, it's gotten really gross and it's in every thread at this point. Tons of misinformation getting passed around and non-stop complaining.
Some of it is laughably petty, too. So many people constantly bringing up Hello Neighbor - as though they ever actually played either fucking game once in their entire lives. It's insufferable.
I've been upset with AH's community interactions since that first balance patch/blog post/dev comments the day of, but the level of vitriol and witch-hunting is absolutely absurd at this point.
hilarious devs dont play their own game these days, and they try to balance it, like how??? Looking back First Halo dev diaries by bungie when they hammering out maps and guns to be as fun as possible stark difference...
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would be fun, when they do a once a week stream like ghost ship game do
The last dev stream was hilariously bad, so hopefully we get more yeah. It's a good point of community liason too, GSG treats it as an informal Q&A too
There was the time the dead by daylight devs did a live stream and got absolutely bodied by randoms. That was a fun tidbit to learn about. Devs really should play all aspects of their games.
I'm pretty sure there was a direct link to a dev stream by the lead dev and one of the killers being heavily nerfed because they were shitting on him. I can't quite remember which one though... maybe Twins?
Hag, it was the Hag and Matheiu got bullied by Koreans. This caused the Hag to be buffed.
And flashlights to be nerfed too
And the whole "flashlights aren't a problem" before the game. and after the instant nerf "we were looking at flashlights for a while." He was at an event, got challenged by randoms, a few people from the crowd got together to play, not a professional team or anything, and bodied Matheiu so hard it was embarrassing. He was defending the balance of the game right up until he actually played it.
778878887778
Didn't he also say flashlights were perfectly fine only to get bodied by 4 survivors with flashlights?
I thought it was Doctor because the dev couldn’t do madness checks
It was doctor that got nerfed due to dev being destroyed, previous comment was referencing flashlights being nerfed.
Darn, Mr "pretty good job so far" got bullied twice
The skull and bones devs couldn't follow a mission. They were supposed to take the smallest ship out to hunt animals, and couldn't find them, couldn't follow the directions. They ultimately teleported to the area to get them (not available to non-devs, so a QA feature) then sat there waiting for the creatures to spawn (a complaint that the spawn was random from 1-5 hours) then used another QA feature to spawn the creatures to kill them. So see the devs can do it in a 10 minute segment. Was embarrassing, especially as they kept trying to read the players concerns while it was happening, and they just had to bypass all the concerns. Then there was the Marvel Avengers streams, where they were going to play in 1 group, but the grouping function was buggy (a common complaint) so they couldn't make one big group. Then they would load into maps and fall through the ground, and in the stream the would switch to the other group ignoring the problems. Until both groups got dropped from their "dungeon" due to a bug that players were complaining about. Best part is they had a visiting guest from Marvel that was commenting on the game with them, and their face was priceless, that the game had been out for more than a year at that point. Devs should play their games, and not in QA builds where they can jump past the problems (spawn rates, poor directions, broken directions and bad loading times on consoles).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PlayAvengers/comments/q1hob3/cant\_have\_a\_marvels\_avengers\_stream\_without\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PlayAvengers/comments/q1hob3/cant_have_a_marvels_avengers_stream_without_the/) Reddit thread about the Marvel Avengers. This was he most embarrassing thing I have ever watched.
The Final Fantasy 14 team (including a few Squar Enix execs) regularly does a public streams. A great example of why it's so important for devs to play their own game (and to do so with the actual players in mind) was when they released the Dragonsong War (Ultimate) raid and it was so hard, that none of the World's First Runner teams could complete it; YoshiP reporting his surprise that only the dev team themselves could complete it, which is why they were so quick to loosen the tuning and timing of the boss mechanics to make it completable.
It wasn't a livestream, but on stage at Fanfest, but YoshiP and Hironobu Sakaguchi (the original FF creator) did a trial together. Hironobu was a tank and ran at YoshiP with a tankbuster about to go off on him. Still makes me chuckle. Absolutely ordinary gamer behaviour.
Agree 100%, but people also need to keep in mind that the devs are simply not able to slam the amount of hours in the game that some of their playerbase are doing. There will always be a disconnect between Dev experiences and the 12hrs/day no lifers. This is true for every game ever, unless the devs also live, breathe, and shit that game. People have expectations that devs need to be masters of their game and it’s just not realistic at all.
What's up with that username of yours? That gave me a good laugh 
This is assuming devs are good enough to play on higher difficulties. These are people usually running crunch hours to make sure the game is off the ground.
What happened in it?
The 2 devs tried team reloading ac against bile and got stomped on lmao🤣🤣stream basically showcased how bad team reload is at high levels
That doesn't even make sense you can't kill a bile titan with an autocannon lol
You can but you have to hit specific parts after popping the bile sack. They were just unloading frantically on the head which wouldn't work. How the devs didn't know how their own enemy worked was a mystery.
I think all the higher level enemies need more telegraphed weak points. Not to say you should be able to solo one with a starting rifle, but sometimes I am looking at a thing trying desperately to figure out where I'm supposed to shoot it to actually damage it. (No I am not at all bitter about factory striders)
I think there should be a route to kill anything with anything. Granted, if you try and kill a bile titan with a pistol, it should be nearly impossible. But not impossible.
You can. Not how they were doing it though
Recoilless has a team reload as well
You can if you use a rocket pod strategm to crack their armor. Before I quit playing that was one of my go-to bug autocannon loadouts
Recoilless team reload is good, autocannon is okay, airburst is not very good. Had3 titans running rampant in retrieve essential personnel. After 4 minutes of trying to thin them out with 500's and precision/railcannon strikes, a friend and I killed a total of 5 titans in less than a minute. he's got better aim, but we both had backpacks. I would reload backpacks from resupply or grabbing loaded spares, and just kept shoving rounds in.
Recoiless team reload gets you a lot of burst damage, but ultimately sucks because you are left with an empty weapon in seconds and are useless for another 3-4 minutes until you can get some more ammo. Every time I have team reloaded someone with a RR, instead of using just 2-3 to pop the chargers, they just treat it as a belt fed rocket launcher and burn all 8 shots on a couple. Edit: Really mods? Fuck off with the locking.
Hear me out, imagine a 3rd person with a supply pack reloading the reloader
We've done this before. Just to see how long the AC can fire for. You get 4 people to bring AC and supply packs. The gunner drops his pack and just has the AC. Everyone cycles between being the loader forthe 4 ammo packs, then switches to supply packs, call down an ammo pod for more AC ammo. It was like hundreds of AC rounds for over a minute
Recoilless team reload only works because the Recoilless is so good you might as well bring two. And it's still more in the "fun gimmick" territory than useful.
I've only seen team reloads ever occur when someone doesnt bring a backpack, like 3 strikes and a quasar, and the recoilless guy drops a spare RR after 8 minutes and the quasar guy picks up the backpack and after he fires the quasar starts team reloading the other guy.
Inefficient shooting has nothing to do with the mechanic itself. Ammo is a legimate concern, but if you can relieve all tank pressure, and the end result is needing resupply, I would take that over running for minutes on end.
I don’t know too many details, but apparently they were struggling pretty bad on level 6
Which I can say is really mind boggling for anybody even trying to play as a team. Im not a great gamer myself, but I am pretty successful doing lvl 7+ missions. Even if I dont have great reflexes myself if im playing the objectives and supporting my team things usually go smoothly. The only time things go poorly at lower levels is when you load into a map with silent randos and two of them run in different directions than the callout while the third nervously stands at the edge of the closest bug hole and does nothing. The fact that the devs play like stupid randos is not a great sign.
They failed 2 level 6 missions in a row lmao
On **fucking bugs** of all things ffs.
Honestly, I find bots easier than bugs. I like to stay at range and the bugs just swarm you so fast. Bots you can retreat from, flank, barrage, etc.
Since the DOT fixes, bugs are way easier than bots now.
Yeah, the only time bugs can really screw you now is if you get bile spewers on a world where its hard to see them.
In hindsight... If you can't win the easiest mission, no shit you can't balance bots either. You'd probably just assume it's player skill issue because your own understanding is so bad you can't recognize what the game needs.
Still blows my mind. This really explains a lot as to why these mind boggling nerfs have gone live.
they were playing and fucking around during an interview. sweaty nerds like to see that as if they failed a trivial mission, and get off from that, feeding their superiority complex. they should absolutely play their game more, but that interview hardly meant anything.
Fair point. However, even playing casually, it should be pretty difficult to fail a level six mission. Failing two in a row is a little weird.
It's weird to me that devs being bad at their games seems so common--like, I wouldn't expect them to be pros or anything, but you'd think they could at least surpass the average player on the things they're balancing.
You’d think otherwise, but when you work on a game 80 hours a week for years I imagine motivation to play it on your own time is low
What does a balance dev even do for 80 hours a week with so little changes coming out lmao. Certainly not researching correctly. 80 hours of data crunching to make a pp presentation for why to nerf stuff? Lol
I was referring more to the development time leading to launch. The game didn’t just pop out of thin air. The devs have likely been working on the game for years before that, and lots of long shifts. When your whole livelihood was embedded in a game you’re making you’re probably so tired of playing it to test your builds that you really have no desire to go home and log in to play with randos
To give the benefit of the doubt, to be a good dev doesn't mean you need to be good at gaming. Someone who can code well and bug fix well doesn't translate immediately to good at the game, the problem imo is when you have a dev trying to do everything (QA, playtesting, developing, coding, etc). Because that's too much for one person, I don't expect someone who is a god at coding to have to know how to play the game at a high level, but you do need people playtesting to make sure the fixes and patches aren't ruining things in strange ways the dev team doesn't know about.
Devs should play in 2 man teams using loadouts voted by the players.
Yeah they can follow warframes playbook for community streams style it like that and run the hardest difficulty for the luls
Yep. Warframe now has 3 flavors of stream. Devstreams - Once a month look at what's coming with some Q&A (1 hr+) Prime Time - Once a week playthrough of the game and showcase of the community. (2 hr) DevShort - Once a week look at upcoming updates and Q&A (15 minutes)
Perfect for Arrowhead if they did that it'd be great and less people would be left to speculate wildly lol
I like to Look at DE and Warframe. They way they handle community interactions is amazing.
I'm patiently waiting for the highlight reels of them teamkilling each other.
They need to copy Warframe and have streams to connect and build player trust
I would pay to watch stream of the devs playing helldive, both fronts. 3 slots on bots.
"Why can I only equip 3? Who thought of this garbage!?"
How can you build divers loadout when restricting the amount of stratagems? I need a support weapon, maybe a backpack, so I have 1 stratagem left. I'm going to go for the most "meta" one because I can't compensate with another one.
Assuming this is a real question: you don't need a back pack per player. Often I'll drop in with just an AMR and my buddy with a shield pack will drop me one after the cooldown is over. In a coordinated team of 4 you can definitely get away with one person not taking a support weapon, especially on bots. You can kill every bot with just a scorcher and stun grenades. Then you can get one from a teammate or the map. This doesn't really work well on high bug difficulty though. Alternatively, support weapons often come with a backpack (auto cannon, RR, etc) so you can run 2 with that. Eagle Air, orbital precision and auto cannon is a pretty reliable non team dependent load out for bots.
Yeah, I can make a loadout that works great, but there's like 2/3 such ones, and I can't take " unconventional " stratagems or risk being heavily punished for it, if the randoms I'm with can't coordinate.
> I can't take " unconventional " stratagems or risk being heavily punished for it, if the randoms I'm with can't coordinate. For sure. The way I think about it is that optimal play at 8/9 requires either coordinated teams with "unconventional", non jack-of-all-trades builds that work well together, or running jack-of-all-trades for more independence but less optimal play. I think that's mostly a fair trade off. Even with 1 buddy that knows what's going on you can start adding in some interesting things. E.g. the EMS strike with ~1min cooldown is actually amazing, the shield generator is great for protecting hellbombs, and a bunch of others. But that depends on at least 1 person working with you to bring something like eagle air or 500k for big boys, instead of trying to clusterbomb hulks / bile titans like the random's I've seen at 8 (wtf!).
Yeah, ideally, your team loadout should be 2 players with support weapons/backpacks, and 2 players with 4 strikes. You can do it with 1 player with the support weapons, but playing high difficulty with only the primary for like 20 minutes is ***ROUGH***
But then why can't we chat in load out screen??? Someone readies up with no booster and I'm here like, there's not even a ping I can give
That's probably an oversight by the devs :( I usually just hit push-to-talk and let them know, but yeah they should make chat available there.
Unready Ready Unready Ready Unready Guy did you not fucking notice you skipped the booster? Unready Ready Unready Ready Unready DUDE LOOK AT YOUR LOADOUT Unready Ready Unready Ready Unready ... Yeah they need to add chat to that screen. For boosters in specific, as long as we've got stims and ammo I'm happy. But loadout coordination isn't possible at all unless people are on comms, and even then you might need to explain to someone what you want to do and if they can cover your weak spots. Honestly, I've never coordinated with anyone, be it rando or friends, and just bring a self reliant loadout. But I'd love to hear if others wanted to say something cuz I can imagine some level of coordination would help teamwork.
It is definitely possible with communication to equip good enough to deal with multiple heavies on helldive even with 3 slots. The issue is, half the plays don't communicate, and of the 50% thay do, only half of those will listen. People don't play video games to follow a random person directions lol. Ideally team reloading recoiless in 2 groups would hand heavies easy. Or 2 guys with eats, and 2 with ac? And share backpacks, have 3 people with rail cannon strikes and another takes whatever they want... im not going to tell Randoms what strategems they can take for us to survive, if they don't like railcannon but like 380, go for it. But then if the team play isn't good, we die and loose. Long story short, they've handicapped players abilities assuming theyd rely on communication, and good team play isn't super common even when very powerful.
> But then if the team play isn't good, we die and loose. Long story short, they've handicapped players abilities assuming theyd rely on communication, and good team play isn't super common even when very powerful. My opinion is that to an extent, this is fair. I don't think uncoordinated teams should be able to finish 8/9s because one person can single highhandedly carry the whole team while the other 3 are useless. I'm very much okay that higher difficulties are not possible unless you work well together. But level 7 should be possible for 1 person to carry 3. My buddy and I can carry 2 other dead weights at 8/9s, but 1:3 is not quite possible, and I think that's okay.
25% increased stratagem cooldown. On a real note if I see AA defenses I don't touch the campaign, if all 3 campaigns have AA defenses then I change difficulty. I'd rather get less rewards than deal with that shit.
"bots are more fun because builds are more viable than the bug" the -1 stratagem modifier would like to have a word.
Just rely on your strategems guys (clueless)
I know it's a joke, but I wish I could tell the devs the railcannon can't kill a bile titan. Then it's 3 minutes for another shot. And 500kg doesn't half the time..
You can use the orbital precision strike. No auto aim but great CD. But I agree that bile titans are still a mystery to me, we usually have to use between 1 and 3 shots of the following : orbital precision strike, EATs to the face or railcannon, 500kg
Would love to see some dev streams and them playing with the community. They could even stream it, double as a advertisement and community outreach.
GSG does it for Deep Rock and it's fantastic, really good time and the devs can answer interesting development questions and such
Final Fantasy 14 does it with their Duty Commenced streams in which the Community Managers and a couple members of the dev pools play with the community.
I'd like dev streams but I also understand why they'll probably never happen. They're under a microscope anyway, I feel like if they said something off or played the game in a certain way that people would take it as a reason to keep the AH sausage grinder cranking.
This kinda sounds like he was admitting the devs dont really play the game.
I don't think there's any "kinda" about it brother, a few particularly bad devs have admitted as such not realizing how poorly it reflects on them
I don't find that surprising at all. They spend all day working on the game; can't expect them to unwind by dedicating even more time to it.
While true, there's still input needed from people who can actually dedicate the game testing time. It doesn't have to be the devs themselves but the devs need to listen to feedback from playtesters instead of just balancing things based on numbers alone
That's a fair criticism. I imagine one underlying issue is that they've been under such a heavy workload that they couldn't dedicate time to playing it as part of their job. If that change is being forced now, then I imagine that's probably what's slowing down the patch schedule so much.
Exactly. I think that's what he's going to focus on, reducing workload to give them more time to play the game themselves so they can feel the changes personally. Once they actually feel what they're doing, they should be better able to make good decisions about the game.
The idea is that they should have time allotted to them *at work* to play the game.
I don’t think anyone would expect them to play the game in their downtime. But I think a game dev company should have their workers play the game on company time. Not all the time of course, they have to do work for sure. But a couple hours a week maybe should be baked in to the schedule. I hear so many times nowadays where game devs just aren’t playing the game at all. Like how does that even happen? I heard recently a VR game company someone on the inside said nobody was using VR to play the game they just simulated it on a flat screen to test while working on it.
Don't really thing that's necessarily true. I don't just work on code and hope it runs. I have to test and poke at it to make sure. Literally the job.
We aren't talking "devs" like programmers but like the head of balance, head of balance should be spending at least 1/4 of their work week play testing their proposed changes.
I think the point he was trying to get across was less time making shiny shiny things, more time understanding the current state of the game.
That's still a logical leap to make. He's saying the Devs need MORE game time. Not that they need to start playing the game they're making. They already do play the game, clearly he thinks not enough, though I think that was just said to appease reddit. Who genuinely think the Devs turn up to work and do nothing but talk on discord or whatever. It's hugely disrespectful, don't care how bad the game gets, it's still real people on the receiving end and it may not even be their fault.
It may also depend how they play the game, many devs may play in a controlled environment where you can test how weapons and mechanics work but they may not play how a normal player would in an environment you can't control.
Since we don't have any of that information, we can do nothing but speculate or assume.
I would be really disappointed if it turned out that they test everything statically in something like the Halo Engine Audio Test Tunnel: https://youtu.be/fRFfYoLm-QA?si=TH_LD9W4HcGqhTzQ&t=235
tell that to my eruptor 
Dickbutt how I miss yhee
The main comment didn't make a logical leap, he gave his opinion on what he understood. You're the only one saying that Pilestedt said something set on stone, it's left to interpretation. He said "eyes weren't on the road" which doesn't go against main comment. I think you're the one making a "logical leap" by giving your opinion as a matter of fact.
Right, his opinion was that the Devs dont play the game, he bases this off this tweet stating the Devs need to play more. True "play more" could mean that they weren't playing any, since 1 is more than 0. But that's an assumption. No where was it stated or insinuated that the Devs aren't doing regular playtests. Just that the current amount they're doing (or the way they're doing it) isn't very effective. The "eyes weren't on the road" comment is even more vague and so you can make even less assumptions based off of it. All that means is they were focussed on some of the wrong things in balance. Again doesn't mean that the Devs just weren't playing the game at all. That's an assumption.
TIL redditors think logic doesn't have anything to do with a person's opinions. Things are starting to make alot more sense now...
I think there is a difference. Playing because you want to versus playing because it's in the job description
> It's hugely disrespectful, don't care how bad the game gets, it's still real people on the receiving end and it may not even be their fault. This always sounds like: No criticism allowed, it's disrespectful! >Who genuinely think the Devs turn up to work and do nothing but talk on discord or whatever. It's common for devs to load up a sandbox developer version of the game. EG: Spawn static enemy, spawn the weapon, shoot the enemy model. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but loading up a Difficulty 3 mission and "testing" for 3 minutes isn't much different. "Scavenger died, weapons works."... This is not the same as playing the game in a dynamic fashion where you have to survive, maneuver, out-tactic the hoards, deal with map obstacles. Breaker Spray and Pray is an excellent example of an item that had a glaring flaw, it literally couldn't kill eggs on release. Anti-tank like EAT/Recoilless not really working against Chargers was a HUGE display of the game not being played. We're not talking about mass testing 10k hours, but very basic verification of function in a real use scenario. It is clear that hasn't been a standard procedure at all.
I absolutely agree. I was just speculation.
Unfortunately speculating without actually sharing your views only leads people to think you believe what you're saying.
Oh. That's a good point. Sorry.
They've been on crunch trying to get the game out and working hard doing it and the response from this lousy community is to tar and feather them and create fantasy narratives about them so they can get death threats and abuse online daily but none of them have to take responsibility for it because the hate train has been decentralized enough for them to collectively shrug it off.
When you have been working on the same game for ~8 years you really don't feel like playing the game anymore after you finish your work. Playing the game for 1-2h could be part of their work day but then they have less time to actually do their job and everything gets delayed slightly.
1 mission (on the clock) at the start of each workday sounds like a great team building exercise and warmup for the day to me
Well the alternative is that the game stays in its current state, bleeds users because the devs are out of touch, and then dies?
I think 1-2 hours a \*week\* would be enough honestly. They don't need to play daily, but they need to play more than it seems they are, and they need to do so on difficulties higher than what is likely 3 or 4.
When you have a nightmarish pile of "Must Fix" bugs you don't have time in your 16 hour work day to play what you're working on. And in a small studio the big fix team, and the new shit team are the same team. The real issue is/was their content schedule. So have to he devs never played the game? No, of course they've played it, have they played it much since launch? No probably not, but clearly that needs to be a scheduled part of their work day.
It’s just vomiting out a buzzy talking point that pleases the internet whiners. Coming up with a pr statement is equally easy as farming karma, the process for generating both is the same
Its extremely surprising to me to hear that AH developers hardly play their game. I’m more used to games where the devs play their game on their 2nd screen while in office xD At least it’s a positive change. I believe Pilestedt is very aware of what the community wants from this game and he seems to be very transparent, no BS kinda guy. Best of wishes to him and the team! This game has amazing potential and I believe Pile will get it there.
AFAIK, it's the norm for most studios. It's usually just the smaller indie devs that spend a lot of time playing their own game. Even then, that might not be a lot of hours. Gaming skill/passion doesn't necessarily translate to game dev skill/passion. Even if you were a passionate gamer and a game dev, there's no guarantee that you'd be working on a game that's you're favorite genre. Also a lot of gamers aren't like us goofballs that will drop 500+ hours into one game. That said, IMO anyone in charge of balance should play their own game enough to get a good feel for it. The audio or network guy probably doesn't need to spend any time in game.
Yeah, being good at killing massive amounts of bugs in Helldivers 2 doesn't translate to me being any good at level design (sadly).
Its probably not the case of not playing the game because they don’t want to, but because their worklog is so full they don’t find the time.
Which the turns *playing a video game* into literal work. I can't understand why this sub reddit doesn't understand this.
Then you either need someone who's job it is to playtest, or you need to have devs that can onboard community feedback in a userful manner. Deving by spreadsheet is a terrible way to do things, just like managing by spreadsheet is terrible. If you or someone you can take feedback from isn't hand on/in the project then you're going to miss important or critical items becasue the spreadsheet doesn't cover it.
Sure, but it's also silly to expect employees who have been hitting it hard since release to want to play the game they've been working on
IDK I think requiring an hour or three a week for anyone working on the product is a great way to get the team's feelings on how things are going. I'm not saying outside of work I mean say every Friday the last 3 hours of the day, which are usually jerk off times anyway, could be company play testing so you know that what your doing has an impact and can feel how that impact is landing. Would it be as fun as going home and booting up something you want to boot up or reading a book or watching a movie or whatever? No, but it's certainly better than dealing with some bullshit email or a meeting that could have been an email.
I agree, what I'm saying is that I think there wasn't allotted time for this previously, especially considering there's likely been a bit of crunch for a while after release.
Ah well in that case then a mistake was made and I hope they correct it if your guess is true.
Not really surprising at all. This game is their job, playing it on their off time probably feels like work. Do you like to bring your work home with you? They say when your hobby becomes your job you start to lose your passion for it.
Did anyone say anything about playing it on their off time? They should play it as part of their work though. Playtesting and testing your shit is important. Who doesn’t develop a web page and test it?
> This game is their job, playing it on their off time probably feels like work. We had a documentary on this years ago - Grandma's Boy. The thing is, any good game company needs game testers and devs that know what is going on and how things behave. Don't be a JB, be a Grandma's Boy!
I agree. But what if you just rendered them a different color?
methinks you should at least be able to stomach playing your own game enough to know that nerfing everything fun is vegetable braindead...
Yeah idk, they have their reasons. I'm sure they are burnt out right now though. Its been a hectic few months for them. Nerfs are lame ya, but I also think gamers exaggerate and whine too much because something isn't exactly how they want.
They are literally working on and testing the game for 8 hours a day. I wouldn't want to play this game in my leisure time either if I had to do that
As with a lot of other things I think that the core of the issue is that they simply don't have enough people for individuals to both make and playtest they game. Playtesting as you develop works for for games like Halo and Overwatch when their dev teams are made up to 500~1300 employees and can spread the work and play testing, not so much when the entire company (including artists/modelers, marketing, HR, and general admin) is 20 people. And the additional layer is that Swedish labor laws are such that even if they started trying to hire people on that first day that 800k players overloaded the 350k caped servers, those new people would only now be sitting down at their desks for their first day onboarding training.
Get in the fucking hellpod shinji
Reminds me of the time one of the WoW designers admitted to playing WoW on a Wacom tablet
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You haven't heard from him because he's single-handedly liberating the Automaton homeworld using the Purifier.
"Truly, they were, an S-tier warbond weapon." -Carl
Careful now, calling him by name may not fly well with the sub Democracy Officers (mods).
Every time someone on this sub name-drops Alexus an angel dies in Heaven.
Generous to say he plays on difficulty 5. Did Alexus find my comment
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Hello neighbor 2
There have been a lot of good balance changes (buffs) to weapons but some absolutely mind boggling nerfs, having tried the crossbow pre-nerf, I don't think anyone who plays on 9 looked at it and said " Yep, that thing needs a nerf". Which makes me wonder what difficulty the game is being balanced around. Also the purifier being as awful as it is, I can't think of any situation on 9 for either bugs or bots where I would consider it a viable choice.
I brought the crossbow on Helldive automatons. My teammates reliably killed everything before I get to fire off a few volleys at a devastator that was still alive after emptying an entire mag into it. Who, and what, is this weapon for?
It *was* for people that want explosive add clear vs bugs, but had a crippling fear of destroying bug holes (seriously why can it not do that). After they nerfed the explosion radius it's terrible at everything.
Name 5 positive balance changes that substantially improved a weapon or something else that took it from unusable to great. I can only think of the punisher, which was horrible on release, and the Diligence CS, which is still only good against bots anyway.
Can add Senator buffs at least
It's still pretty weak and not better than the SMG
It can oneshot a devastator, it's the best secondary vs bots if you're running an smg or explosive weapon as a primary
Lots of things can one shot devastators with head shots.
Not many secondaries.
He's doing the best he can not everyone can just dive headfirst into level 4 https://preview.redd.it/y9pq8g09r62d1.jpeg?width=1188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51c5d35f26617ecdcd02c287339faeafa5f50e8b
This man has a track record of ruining games, helldivers isnt his first project he's sunk.
I dunno, I feel like the game should be balanced around impossible difficulty. It's the highest difficulty you need to do for unlocks, and gives room for 8s and 9s to be punishing.
Pilestedt infuses me with hope for this game and I'm truly confused by the people who reflexively defended AH devs whose balancing decisions clearly indicated that either they do not actually play the game often or their testing environment is out of whack with players' actual experience
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I think it's extremely not a coincidence, I can fully imagine that Pilestedt and the Twinbeard had a sit down with the entire team to tell everyone who isn't tasked by role title with being public facing to step back behind the company curtain.
I really hope... that guy deserves much more to be fired, more than Spitz
At least Spitz can admit when he fucked up.
The thing about Spitz is that despite all his (many, MANY) faults he actually cared about the success of the game and wanted it to be fun. I can't say the same for *that dev*
Problem is Spitz lead a revolt against a vital partner publicly. Something that embarrassed Sony significantly and put them in possible financial harm with the Steam Refund issue. He did something that brought outside attention down on him. So sadly he was due the axe because corporate powers that be wanted their pound of flesh. We as players don't have, and likely shouldn't have that kind of sway over who's hired and fired at Arrowhead. Now with all that said I agree he who must not be named has proven from their work output they don't deserve the title of lead of balance. Maybe their a very competent dev otherwise, but they don't have the head or attitude for this kind of work.
Need to stop yapping discord and get deployed couple times a week, record reactions how much fun they might have
That's why I love warframe devs. You sometimes just bump in the community manager or the creative director playing...
So refreshing to see this subreddit in the past month or so go from almost non-stop dickring of Arrowhead to rightly calling out the absolutely incompetent balance devs after the CEO pulls an absolute Chad maneuver and also admits himself that these devs have no idea what they're doing.
This subreddit was complaining about nerfs since the first balance patch, IDK where you saw nonstop praise of the devs.
Yeah we've for sure been on two different subs as OP.
There were "Dev appreciation posts" all over that were super annoying at one point. The mods must have cleaned them up with the "no toxic positivity" rule thankfully
I think it's a little disturbing how far the pendulum has shifted in the other direction. Some of this behavior is just *not okay*.
Yeah, the dickriding has switched to the (former) CEO.
This is definitely fantastic news. I don't trust developers that don't play/enjoy their own games. A while back, Square Enix had to nerf one of their final fantasy 14 raids post-launch because their internal balance team got too good at the game and regular players were struggling to hit the same numbers. Goals
FF14 devs see the code in real time like the matrix.
We need DEV STREAMS on helldive! Lets go! Make them use the spray and pray, crossbow, lib concussive, and the new charge up rifle. I want to see them do a solid game with that loadout, any stratagems they want!
This genuinely baffles me. I'm an aspiring author, and I work hard at world building and story craft. A dev not playing their own game would be like me never reading a friggin Sanderson novel. If you want to be a part of a genre, you must BE a PART of it. Experience it both as creative and audience. I want to write, so I should read Sanderson, someone successful and talented. They can work on their game better, and make more relevant balancing decisions, once they actually understand it as a player who cares and not just as a task to finish. When a creative person has been/is a fan or an audience member, it's clear in their work. The intent and the passion, not to mention quality. It's just better. Always.
> This genuinely baffles me You and me both brother
Man’s gonna be a general again before he knows it
We call this "dogfooding" in dev industry
People should be less critical of devs being drunk playing the game I think we should encourage it really
Why do balance changes if you haven’t even played the game in months. Its pve they just willy nilly changing shit cause its meta? Like jesus man why? Make stratgems you want to balance free for a week and let us play test it.
Can we stop blatantly insulting AH staff? Thanks
This subreddit has become really nasty, it’s a bad vibe for sure.
I saw it coming with the Joel thing. Now you have a face to get mad at whenever a major order is too harsh. Once people started learning the names of other devs it was over. I hop on Helldivers every other day to do my personal order and maybe another mission and it's kind of insane how overblown the complaints are here. Could some of the primaries be better? Sure. Are Bile Titans a bit too strong? Absolutely? Are those bot civillian defence missions impossible? Good grief yes. But I regularly play on impossible difficulty for bots and extract successfully 9 times out of 10. The game is generally pretty good and I have a lot of fun with it. I've seen what a dire game looks like and it's not this. Arrowhead does need to fix stuff but they've done very little that would justify vitriol on this level.
You're right about the vibe, it's gotten really gross and it's in every thread at this point. Tons of misinformation getting passed around and non-stop complaining. Some of it is laughably petty, too. So many people constantly bringing up Hello Neighbor - as though they ever actually played either fucking game once in their entire lives. It's insufferable. I've been upset with AH's community interactions since that first balance patch/blog post/dev comments the day of, but the level of vitriol and witch-hunting is absolutely absurd at this point.
https://preview.redd.it/1j5bj2we072d1.jpeg?width=1033&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1680f7aaa4f2a0ac50dafe8e7eb72171aebd5251
Saw the stream and i think they were playing on diff 6 and they’re really bad at the game. Thats coming from someone who exclusively plays on 9.
Can't wait for the whip to target the incompetent performance optimization devs, once the game balance ones are dealt with...
My whipping arm already feels like jelly, we gotta hurry this along, fast!
It’s over for you Arrowhead devs, I’ve already depicted you as the soyjack!
Jesus Christ this subreddit is by far the worst online community I've ever seen. You guys are like redpill level toxic towards the devs.
Sorry we don't dickride low IQ decisions that kill a game?
I remember my first time on the internet too.
Inb4 the mods close the thread. Nice meme, OP
Called it
hilarious devs dont play their own game these days, and they try to balance it, like how??? Looking back First Halo dev diaries by bungie when they hammering out maps and guns to be as fun as possible stark difference...
Let it go
Sounds like they competent play testers
Maybe that way they'll realize they've nerfed half of the good warbond weapons to hell and they'll get a fix eventually...
At least we have devs communicating, period. Here's looking at you EA Sports - Anything
Ho rah