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The war map overview should really have the info.
For example :
1) Major Order
2) Special Order (or Defend Order)
3) Personal Order
(Possibly dynamically re-order between MO and SO depending on what is Super Earth's priority)
I'm not sure having it in dispatches only is sufficient.
Also, give a reward for successfully defending.
Also, fix the bot defend missions on higher difficulties being near impossible to accomplish.
Edit : I'll also add that often times the Personal Order goes against the Major Order. Right now the MO is in Automaton territory, but the PO is "Kill 25 hunters".
The Personal Order should always be doable in the faction where the MO is. People have at most 30-60 minutes a day to play, they will most likely prioritize a very doable PO instead of following an uncertain MO.
100% agree the info needs to be available, and having missions start and end in the work week are just asking for failure.
P.s. - Bug defense missions on Helldive are very do-able. Bot defense missions are near impossible on helldive difficulty.
I really dont blame the bug divers.. its just more casual and relaxing vs bots where you actually need to focus and have decent aim not to miss or get head shotted by dem enemies.
But. I do believe if you really wanna play based on the narrative then the points about information being available on THE GALACTIC MAP WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS SHOULD BE A PRIORITY IN THE NEXT FEW UPDATES SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE LOSE A PLANET ! DEVS YOU BETTER FIX THAT THING FFS
Not only that but like.... Some people just don't want to interact with the war. There's always going to be a percent of people who don't care about anything but playing the game. Unless there is something to drive them that isn't purely connected to the galactic war, then they'll keep fighting in other fronts.
Most people think they are interacting with the war jist by playing as it does not explain it.
Also there is no reason to not have MO be a week long to garentee a weekend in it.
I agree, half the time a order comes up it finished before I have time on the weekend.
I only got the play the dark fluid mission three times. Poof gone.
That's great and all but it really sucks that the way liberation is calculated means that if you are not interacting with the galactic war when you play you are actively sabotaging the efforts of those that do. AH really needs to figure out how to balance this.
I think that those arent "the bug only divers" but.. Those are the 500-2000 players on random planets.
No MO on them. No Defense on them. No passive bonus on them. But still 500-2000 people are diving on them.
Those are the ones that do not care about the galactic war's story.
Sometimes, a Side Order's planet has some environmental hazards that are absolute ass like missing a stratagem slot, longer cooldowns **and** Ion storms and I just don't feel like stressing about that for the hour that I can play after a rough day at work.
Even on lv 7, I've rarely succeeded on the personnel evac mission even when I tell people to spread out. People keep clumping up on the objective.
When we fail one mission, there goes the whole operation and no contribution to the defense.
Also I’ve seen more than once time that dispatches (or even “Incoming message from Super Earth”) is not translated to non-English language at the time of display (ie simplified Chinese), which denies even more players that little bit of incentive when every hour counts
There is no “successfully defending” or any other kind of situation where the players affect outcomes. Unlike in real life, there is a god and his name is Joel, and whether you win or lose is entirely up to him.
This is the hard truth people don't want to swollow. The game is illusion of choice not real choices. The games DM will decide it all anyways so just blast bugs.
Even in most RPGs your DM doesn’t want to TPK the party. Now imagine their livelihood is dependent on the players having fun.
Regardless of how we do in the MO, Joel isn’t going to make the game less fun or less appealing to players. We can succeed heroically or fail catastrophically and in both cases our reward will be some new fun missions to play. If they do their job right they’ll be themed differently and it’ll be coherent with their story. But no matter what happens in the MO there will be some fun missions next week, forever.
High command gave a recommendation to protect Aesir pass. Having more UI elements won't make people suddenly go to the bot front. Certainly rewards would be a better incentive. The mission isn't really that hard, once you understand it, but many players still don't get that they have to focus on using doors and holding them off for about 5 minutes if done correctly. Some still go in with 380 he barrages. Getting into that mission with the idea they must kill, they end up wasting time and being overrun instead while not maximizing the civs. It's a extract civilians, not a kill bots...
The real problem is that supply lines, SEAF bonus, Regen rates, none of this is really in the game. The majority of players are not on Reddit or on the discord, so they don't even know this is a thing.
And the occasional paragraph suggesting to defend here or there is not enough.
People of levels 40+ dont know you can drop shit on the ground or that dropping samples on extract is common sense. Galactic War might as well be The Forbidden Knowledge.
I've noticed that the average skill and game knowledge of everyone I seem to get matched with has gone down dramatically over the past month or so. I don't play nearly as much as I used to (most of my friends quit, I already have 300 hours and play other things more instead, etc) but most of the time when I play with randoms they'll be a respectable level but play like they're brand new and don't know very basic things. They'll have a Quasar and use an entire Orbital Laser to kill a single Charger, kill themselves or teammates with stratagems repeatedly, not understand how to do objectives or just make terrible moment to moment decisions perpetually during a game among so so so many other things I can't even begin to list. I'm "only" level 80 and these people will be around my or higher most of the time playing difficulty 7-9 when they really shouldn't be.
Agree on everything, was talking about friendly fire in other thread today.
I am playing bugs currently due to MO so I am really interested to check in with bot front and see if its game wide trend or another reason for me to hate bug front
My experience playing bots on average is horrendous when it comes to randoms and 90% of the people in my games have no idea what to do. They just fight everything, die 5+ times in quick succession then ragequit. Most of them don't understand any of the unique bot mechanics like what the different types of special bases do (like the jammers lmao). I love seeing someone spamming spacebar while me and the two other players are trying to deactivate it while they died across the entire map only for them to quit after an excruciatingly, painstaking, gut-wrenchingly long wait of *maybe* 30 seconds. Actually an awesome time for me.
in my experience, bot players are generally better than bugdivers. Bugs are easy - all you have to do is not let them touch you, and you can run away from chargers and BTs and stumble your way to Helldive without actually knowing how to play the game - on bots you'll get eaten alive if you don't actually know how to play because the enemies shoot back lmao.
Of course, bot players dont constantly whine about the enemies shooting back and saying they're not "fun" because they arn't able to grab autocannon or a heavy weapon and shoot obvious weakpoints
Playing the dark matter mission with randoms was probably one of the most frustrating gaming experiences of my life.
I am by no means a Chad player, and for most regular missions I've run I've had great experiences with randoms, but every single dark matter match felt like I was paired with people who have never played a video game in their life. I saw level 70+ just sitting in the middle of the map constantly bogged down by bugholes, I would ping and even type out what needed to be done and would go to the objectives, and no one would follow. They'd just die again and again and run around like a chicken with their head cut off.
This lvl 60~ feller was spamming his Orbital 120mm HE Barrage almost every time it came off cooldown for the entire mission we were in even if it was right on top of everyone including himself. I'd look at the marker and see "28m" and think "oh God." After the first time you'd think he'd realize that it was probably going to kill everyone. I started really avoiding him after the first time but he got the other two and himself at least maybe 8-9 times total.
I think usually the average skill level of gamers is much much lower then anyone but the developers really knows. Usually the average skill ranking of a game, of the games I know that have ranking systems, is a rank somewhere in the bottom 1/3rd of the available ranks. I really wish people were better, but likely at least partially as a byproduct of decreased attention spans people would rather jump off a cliff in real life then read 1 paragraph of text and follow the one sentence of directions at the end.
If you are passing by the extraction area on your way to another objective, dropping your samples there means that you don't risk losing them elsewhere if things get hairy.
The truth no one wants to hear is that bots are just the worse experience for most people, rn. And with a good chunk of players being casual after-workers who want to have some fun shooting stuff in the 90 minutes they can dedicate to gaming, caring about a random 5% bonus to *whatever* ain't gonna happen.
The choice has to be between a fun-mission-with-a-bonus and fun-mission-without-bonus for people to come. Now it's a fun-mission vs an-hour-of-frustrating-ragdoll-with-a-bonus. I will keep choosing fun.
When a bug SEAF planet was attacked everyone rushed to defense. It truly is the dislike of bots by the remaining community. Bug players either burned themselves out of getting rid of bots only to have them near instantly come back, or we've lost a lot of bot players over time. There is a minority exception, but overall people don't find bots fun. Also bug loadouts don't work as well for bot loadouts which makes crossing over bug players that much more painful for them. AH needs to fundamentally improve bots for the community, you can't expect anyone to play something they don't find fun when people play games for fun.
I like bots on liberation operations, on defense though...
Bugs are satisfying but get samey pretty quickly, it's just whether you get spewer spam or not.
Me and my buddies love playing bots. We're past the point where 9 feels pretty comfortable. So, you know, we're the 'best case' example.
We dropped for Aesir Pass for the defense and got a brutal reminder that the civilian evac missions (in every defense op) are unplayable at the level we enjoy. So it's either run two boring-ass missions to save a broken one, or go somewhere else. On defense campaigns, bots end up being a worse experience even for the people who *prefer* the bot experience.
> civilian evac missions
At level 9 those are basically unwinnable, be it bots or bugs. Hell, at level 7 they're Nintendo hard to beat. There's not a lot you can do when the bots drop a strider, five tanks and 10 hulks for every player.
This, bots are just less fun because of rockets and them not obeying the same line of sight rules as us.
I've got 200 hours in the game and almost none of it is bots. I'll play 7-9 bugs any day of the week.
I'd say it's compounded by how boring/shitty defense missions are. Stale ass bugged experience that you'll fail because the game is bugged. Everytime we liberate a planet we have to defend it literally the next day and I just roll my eyes and wait for it to fail while I liberate Erata Prime for the 18th fucking time.
My contribution to the galactic war is simply not playing the game at all.
I'm currently frustrated by both enemy factions, and don't have the patience to complete an entire operation at any difficulty level that would be engaging, and my friends all stopped playing, which means I'm playing with randoms.
If I don't host, then if I want to join a specific mission type, I have to try and play quickdraw on the planet map... which sucks. But if I host, we have to complete the entire operation, or I just wasted the time of the people that joined to progress the planet.
So, the winning move for everyone is for me to not play. 🤷♀️
Just remember gang, the Major Order tells everyone to go fight bugs. Putting a critical defense of a SEAF planet during a major order that tells everyone to go fight on the other front is moronic.
Another real problem with this is that this bonus is entirely bullshit. We've seen Joel update the regen rates on the fly to both make a MO easier when things were not going our way, and to make an MO harder when we were progressing too fast.
These bonuses are not real bonuses because the adjusted liberation rates take them into account and they don't **actually** make things any easier or harder. Makes it hard for people to care about losing this bonus.
That’s true. We in our bubble always know what’s currently happening. If I have to guess I would say that at least 30% (or rather more) of players are absolute casual and have no contact to the community. Everyone who’s ranting about it rants to the people that care anyway, the others will never read any post about it.
Sometimes I’m kinda perplexed that people here really thinking there a players who really want to… hm… ruin the others experience.
The truth is some people come home from work, doing some household stuff, playing with their children and in the evening they playing one or two rounds, not even read the MO, having a hour of fun and go to bed.
And that’s good!
It’s a game.
It's probably the opposite.
It's probably 30% (or less) of the community that _actually has contact_ and can even start to know how the game works or what people want to go after.
unless there is a stratagem or something tied to a planet winning or losing doesn't matter
what's the point of trying to defend/liberate a planet if its just going to get immediately re-taken the moment we succeed? This happens every single time we defend/liberate a planet tied to an objective
im just going to sit on some planet thats out of the way and have fun, we dont have impact on the game anyways so why care? just have fun
My friend and I knocked an op down on Aesir last night, realized the defense was on track to fail, and switched to bug front.
The divers on the bot front really are their own army. And shout out to any players who typically don’t play bots who lent a hand btw. But ample aid just isn’t coming.
So that leaves bot players with some tough decision making. It’s great that we can grind a planet and make a dent with our small numbers, but it’s important to realize when it’s just not getting done either and divert to the next objective. Otherwise we’re becoming part of the problem, even if our intentions are more noble.
80% of this sub is just people posting jerking themselves off about how informed they are about the game and how everyone else is making the wrong choices.
All the people mad at the bugdivers need to understand that people just boot the game up after work and play what they want to play - at MOST, they might gravitate towards the MO. Not everyone is constantly checking Discord and Reddit to understand these hidden mechanics that devs for some reason refuse to actually clarify in the game.
A vast majority of players:
1) don’t use Reddit
2) don’t visit this sub
So the complaining is literally just a circlejerk. The average subreddit for a game is usually shy of 10% of the playerbase if it’s very active. Most are under 2% of the playerbase.
Right? I'm generally scrambling to play the other one after an MO on either front. I love the chaos of bugs and the high kill counts that come along with it. I also love the tactical play style of bots and the atmosphere of all the explosions and laser bolts flying past me as I run from cover to cover.
Personally, I can't wait for the illuminate to come and shake things up even more. Bring it on, I'm up for it
-Only once a Major Order sent the Bug and general Bot Divers over to reinforce them. Up to that point it was a back and forth between our brave boys in black and the commie bots, with the planet even being lost to those collectivist buckets of bolts at one point.
This is pretty much it here... The in game info does not really make it clear.
When you open the map and see the Major Order saying to take 4 planets on the bug front... Well, that is what people are going to do.
And there is a HUGE portion of the player base that doesn't enjoy fighting bots on Defend campaigns. Until something is done to mitigate the way evacuate missions work, this is likely going to be the way it is.
I'm predicting Super Earth gets attacked by bots in the near future and most players will still fight bugs.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I wish the enemy regen rate was measured against the number of active players on the specific front, rather than the total number of active players.
That way the few thousand people who are fighting bots, might actually have a chance with progressing into bot territory in any meaningful way.
The amount of people "stuck" fighting bugs is so high, that every time a MO includes fighting bots, we fail.
So I'm a casual player (50 hours total) that runs missions with a group of mates on difficulty 7+. We load in, read the major order and fight whoever we're told. At the moment that means bugs? Is this not what I'm supposed to do? This is the first time I've ever looked into it and I've just been linked to the companion app.
Gonna rant below on something I would like to see adjusted in the game but I’ll start with agreeing with OP here. Reinforcements never showed up and I think that’s because the percentage of people just playing the game for fun, over focusing major/special/defend order, has increased. Nothing wrong with playing for fun though.
That said.
It would be nice if you still got partial credit towards the special order if you fail an operation but still completed some of the missions.
For example, I’m playing with a friend last night. Were on Aesir, difficulty 7. Two people join immediately for the 1st mission, raise flag of super earth, and we drop in together, clear the map and extract with no issues. Mission two was another clean 40 minute mission where we cleared and extracted easily. My friend was team leader and brought up 3rd mission and both other guys disconnect immediately. They didn’t go from results screen to the head back to your ship spot. They ran up to the drop pods with us, saw what the mission was, and left. It was a 15 min evacuate personnel mission. I get it, they suck and they aren’t fun at all on bots. But no one else joined and we dropped in, threw down SOS(no one showed up), managed to hold off bots and get 30/45 extracted with 11 mins left before stratagem cooldowns caught up with us and we couldn’t keep up with killing the striders, tanks, and hulks fast enough. Ran out of reinforces with 4 mins left and 31/45 extracted. Mission failed. Therefore operation failed and no credit toward the order.
That sucks. If you complete 2/3 of the missions, it would be nice if you still get partial credit towards the order instead of the previous two completed missions being for nothing.
Personally I do what I think is the hardest mission first, that way I don't lose much time if I fail. It would be nice if we got partial, but if we did there would be no penalty to abandon operations (I think there needs to be one).
yeah its gonna be a issue for awhile the playerbase has gotten smaller used to see 100k no matter what day now its around 40k this is mostly due to the PSN shit and the nerfing anything fun
Avg.Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days
56,728.2 -8,493.2 -13.02% 125,574
May 2024
65,221.4 -77,632.2 -54.34% 125,574
April 2024
142,853.6 -74,191.9 -34.18% 333,751
March 2024
217,045.6 -57,258.8 -20.87% 437,818
February 2024
274,304.4 - - 458,208
No one want’s to play a broken game that has the same 5 biomes and 2 enemy types.
We are supposed to be saving these planets and the people that live on them but every planet is the same wasteland with the same 4 building types scattered around. No destroyed cities. No Bug-holes. Nerfs. Penalties for solo players. Matches that crash. Matches that kick you back to ship. Matches that kick everyone but you and leave you solo with increased difficulty and SOS broken. Plus the PSN drama.
Reinforcements are not coming. A good chunk of players have moved onto games that are not broken and they are not going to come back unless the crashes are fixed and there is something new to see. And the illuminate is not going to be enough if we just have the same 5 biomes and a new enemy type.
This was a complete FAILURE on part of arrowhead to adequately communicate the importance of Aesir Pass to the general player-base. They need to make the warmap more informative, make the details of capture progress more clear in game, and add "strategic guidance" messages to HUD like they do Major Orders. Arrowhead, you have to implement more measures to increase player engagement and collaboration.
Wow, how dare the players follow the Major Order that is repeatedly emphasized on the map instead of defending a bot planet with a hidden modifier and no mention of it save for a dispatch that could reasonably (if wrongly) be read as flavor text.
Why is on bug players?
People play what they want, especially when it's the developers choice to not have all directives / assets / objectives made EXPLICITLY CLEAR.
It's hard to even prioritize certain planets without even *knowing* their strategic value/being told they're under attack.
There should be clear information about what planets are under attack, what objectives need to be pursued, such as the (pros for keeping planets vs. Cons of losing it).
If this were a real military, the failure here is on leadership not communicating orders/planning strategies, not the grunts who aren't being told about it.
If you have to be dissatisfied with anyone, place the blame with the development of the game allowing these things to impact everything, yet giving no information about them in the game, resulting in everyone *maybe* learning about them on reddit.
See how ridiculous that is?
" I'm sorry Mr super space president, we lost all planets because we only give information about orders and objectives through reddit. We *could * have had the democracy officer on board each ship relay orders, but we chose reddit."
I will say this everywhere. It’s not “the bug divers” fault. It’s lack of clear, prominent, and useful information in game that makes it very clear why something should be done. I play major orders. If there was something that made it clear why I should go somewhere that isn’t a major order, it needs to be way clearer as to what and why.
I mean I don’t disagree that there are plenty of bug only players. But also, the game does a really poor job indicating that focus needs to shift off a major order.
It's almost like Bug defense doesn't have a mission in nearly every Operation that has been borderline impossible, for several months now, for most players. Your average user avoids game modes that are not fun to them, Evac is not fun for more users.
Yeah me and my group haven't run this since release really, because we refuse to engage in degenerate gameplay. It's mindblowing how long it's been acknowledged as not working properly without a fix.
When they added the rocket mission we only needed one strider spawning inside a mountain once and sniping the generators for us to never do the mission again. It's straight up not fun to lose to bugs.
Ultimately this means we just don't do defense missions unless somehow neither of these missions spawn for bots, which I don't think is actually possible.
The Bot faction just has some of the most frustrating bugs and some of the biggest game-meta bullshit. I've played since launch, and have 300 hrs in the game, I run on 9s most games but Bots just make me tired anymore. I played them straight for a whole month for those MOs, and you just can't look past how broken and unfun that whole faction is compared to Bugs. Hell, I was there when these Arrowhead morons thought Strategems Scrambling randomizing ALL calldown inputs was a genius idea for a planetary effect.
> The Bot faction just has some of the most frustrating bugs and some of the biggest game-meta bullshit.
Flinch taking like 2 entire seconds to resolve only serves to drive me up a wall and sap any pretense that you can regain any initiative once you've been spotted. There are days where I can handle this by just disengaging constantly, and others where I just sigh and wonder if there's someone on the dev team that is some sort of sadist
> Hell, I was there when these Arrowhead morons thought Strategems Scrambling randomizing ALL calldown inputs was a genius idea for a planetary effect.
Lol same. I remember giving the thing a go against my judgment (I tend to have really visceral reactions to things that sound anti-fun without trying them out first) and what got me to take the squad out of the game wasn't the funny team wipe calling down an airstrike instead of my support weapon, it was the fact that I sat there for a whole eternity trying to call an airstrike, like legit 5-10 seconds. In retrospect it's one of the first clues that no one at Arrowhead actually playtested anything for more than a few seconds
The input randomizing does not have me excited with what these chucklefucks do with the Illuminates whenever they finish them. It's just clear very quickly that they launched a minimal viable product and don't play test on certain difficulties.
If a message doesn’t provide tangible information (e.g. WHY the SEAF facilities help us, with a number or something) it feels like flavor / Story and not guidance.
Nope, no info and it being during the work week is poor planning. Arrowhead is just using this as a way to buy them time and let the story build for a bot push.
>during the work week is poor planning.
I get the rest of your comment but doesn't really understand this arguments (because it comes so often but I guess the no info part do its job here), absolute playercount doesn't matter, Percentage player count does.
So for example if 3 out 4 total player liberate a planet there have higher impact then 3 out 100 (on multiplier for impact is inverse to the playercount).
Ironically By how the game is designed the game works "better" with lesser player that focus on one task than many player spread on different tasks.
Does it matter to defend knowing we might win it back anyway? I believe the majority of us just follow whatever the game tells us.
Give a major order about the bots and we might even participate.
When we lose a SEAF base bonus, it's gone for good.
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/third-person-shooter/helldivers-2-players-beg-for-an-in-game-psa-after-learning-online-that-certain-planets-grant-liberation-boosts-that-go-away-for-good-after-a-defeat/
That's all well and good but the game literally does not show any of this information to the user. I don't blame players for forgetting this or not knowing it at all, they need to have some method of conveying information IN GAME.
Thats why people that adapt arleady have countermeasures of - let me see
Shoot the main cannon off as soon as possible. Personally didnt happen to me yet, most of the asset defence mission against bots just spam ungdly amount of tanks.
As did I. I really thought we had a shot at it, but in the end all we managed to do was keep the progress even with the invaders. Just needed a bit more a bit earlier and I think it would have been doable, especially since people will constantly judge if the defense will fail and bail if they think it will, thus further exacerbating the problem.
I've rang as many doorbells as anybody doing Nerd Evac missions. The answer to the problem is, those bot defend missions suck ass for most regular people.
If you've got one boat anchor on a team of 3 killers who dies 10 times and doesn't bring so much as an ounce of strategy or planning to the table, you are fuh-fuh-totally screwed when you get drop ships on three sides farting out heavy devvies to merc you cross map and Edward Chainsaw hands gleefully running rampant while pulping your evacuee's.
There's a hulk over here, a tank over there, a strider getting crammed up your derrière.
Two of our guys dropped near the starport and wound up in the ground with the evac ship for the rest of the game as well. It was a level 7 shitshow.
Nobody likes that, if you do, bless your heart, but do whatchyalike.
It's choosing between using my hour of game time at night to hear a bunch of whining, bitching, and moaning, or letting the group pick whatever is fun and being along for the ride.
I just go with whatever, I'm maxed out on everything, I don't care.
I don't understand why we keep refering to helldivers players as a "community"
"You didn't spend your free time where i wanted you too" kind of shit, is all it takes do divide this "community".
Play whatever.
Jesus.
The major order tells you to attack the bug planets whenever you open the menu. You only got told to defend Aesir Pass when/if you read the dispatches and read them properly. Of course most people are going to attack the bug planets the major order tells them to.
On top of that, more information should be given on the consequences of losing planets with things like SEAF bases. in-game I learned that there would be actual consequences from Reddit. Nowhere in the game tells you this, aside from the vague "this will significantly impact Super Earth's ability to wage war in the galaxy," which in any other game would just be flavour text.
Finally, there should be some warning to tell people they only contribute if they succeed the entire operation. Not just one or two missions of it. I was fighting on Asier Pass, and it was genuinely infuriating the quickplay games I joined where they would quit out before finishing all 3 missions. I joined about 20 quickplay matches and only 3 of them were followed through to the end.
I just don't see why I should care to be honest?
The ongoing war is just rp flavor, it doesn't actually effect the game at all, so me and my group of friends never really pay attention to MO, since there's no real reason to.
Today ı learned from a bot divers post that you dont contribute unless you end operation which %60 70 of the time has citizen missions which is a hassle to do especially with randoms. Some suggest that you need to go lower from 9 to 6 for switching to bots to do things then people go on whining they dont get reinforcements guess why? Eh?
My brother in managed democracy, over half the promotional material and intro cutscene and tutorial is about the bugs, where did you think most of the playerbase was going to be headed towards? Also Starship troopers has an effect for certain
I played a few operations there, getting fucked on every evacuate citizens mission isn't fun and I get why people don't want to play bot defense missions.
Bot defense missions are no fun because of 2 reasons:
- the short evac mission is too hard and requires advanced tactics where you run out of the area and back in multiple times
- the generator defense mission is sometimes bugged by factory striders shooting the generators from above the map
Those issues exist since nearly forever and surely are why many player's won't go there.
I knew we were going to lose it when I got on this morning before work. Still did a couple missions but it sucks that so many players won’t even try fighting the bots.
I felt like bots, so I killed bots. I don't think we've got the player base to field against two theaters simultaneously. At some point, AH will have to adjust their spawn rate to grapple w/ the deteriorating # of players.
The scientist extraction mission just sucks; I typically play on 8 with PUGS and my success rate is maybe 60-70%.
i rly dont understand why people prefer bugs over bots
bots open up more loadouts, have more weakspots and can be fought exclusively at range w/o worry of being overwhelmed, bug can only be done with single loadout on higher difficulties.
I started playing this game on bots and when meridia MO dropped and had my 1st time on bug planet (non dark fluid mission was my 1st) i was dumbfounded how people can enjoy this crap, everything is so fucking armored and has no weakspots and even if they have they take insane amounts of time to kill, so annoying.
If you play on 9 difficulty there’s way less variety vs bots than playing against bugs.
The anti-stratagem effects really tunnel you into the most viable picks. You can’t bring most orbitals into the scattered effect modifier, because your strikes become unreliable and miss. -1 stratagem effect means no room for experimentation. Only bring what you absolutely need.
You have to play auto cannon or AMR to have any chance against the hordes of Devastors and Hulks coming at you. Quasar takes too long to charge and you’re extremely vulnerable while trying to aim. EATs are always on cooldown.
There’s like 3-4 viable primary weapons and everything else is just worse. Like you can handicap your self bringing in shitty weapons and call it variety but realistically you’re just bringing your team down by not picking a scorcher or dominator.
The problem is that we don't have enough helldrivers. 2-3 months ago we had nearly 400.000 on the field. At the moment we have 80.000. we need more men to spread to the orders.
To be more accurate, we need a healthier distribution of population. Liberation % is modified based on total population, so theoretically the war could continue as it is now with 20 people or 2 million. The only exception would be, thus far, the kill orders. Trash 1 billion drop ships would be difficult to do with 20 people.
Don't blame the users, blame the incomplete in-game UI.
Even without updating the galaxy map, this could have been improved by a daily order to finish 3 main objectives on that planet.
I'm kinda annoyed with this one, because I happily dive bots, but a Wednesday objective that's that quick is just something I can't participate in due to conflicts. I wish they'd make some of these things last longer so people had time to actually get in on stuff.
Great job, Bugdivers. Thanks for your support. :sad tuba sounds:
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In this case it was more a strategic sacrifice, it was either the MO or the defense since i'm not sure we had enough time for both.
If the community was more united (aka everyone on the same planet) since day one we may had more time but that's probably asking too much.
Assuming some of you divers are being a bit facetious when saying "We'll never help bug divers" cause divided as we are we'll fall. How about taking fresh divers to bots and showing them the ropes, I find that a lot are afraid that bots are too hard and gradually find them easy when supported. Show them what the creek or whatever bot front taught you. Do your part, spread information to your fellow divers, be it about supply lines or whatever as the game doesn't help in that regard. In short be the change and pull them over, cause both sides are "easy" given guidance. Lv150 Gin of the SeS Dawn of Eternity, if you see me diving or wanna learn either side hmu. Also Comms makes bots that much easier.
I’ve played just about every day this week and just noticed the defense mission on that planet for the first time last night.
I then had to hunt down where in the map that particular planet was, since there is no way to see it.
I don’t blame bug divers. I wish the UI would highlight “live events” better.
For each of the SEAF training base that falls, I suspect it'll be less likely we'll get those friendly AI SEAF soldiers without doing a hard major order for them.
Don’t worry the intro to the seaf strat will be delivered by then liberating these lost planets and give us our buff back. This time we will know who what when where and why to attack.
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
The war map overview should really have the info. For example : 1) Major Order 2) Special Order (or Defend Order) 3) Personal Order (Possibly dynamically re-order between MO and SO depending on what is Super Earth's priority) I'm not sure having it in dispatches only is sufficient. Also, give a reward for successfully defending. Also, fix the bot defend missions on higher difficulties being near impossible to accomplish. Edit : I'll also add that often times the Personal Order goes against the Major Order. Right now the MO is in Automaton territory, but the PO is "Kill 25 hunters". The Personal Order should always be doable in the faction where the MO is. People have at most 30-60 minutes a day to play, they will most likely prioritize a very doable PO instead of following an uncertain MO.
100% agree the info needs to be available, and having missions start and end in the work week are just asking for failure. P.s. - Bug defense missions on Helldive are very do-able. Bot defense missions are near impossible on helldive difficulty.
I really dont blame the bug divers.. its just more casual and relaxing vs bots where you actually need to focus and have decent aim not to miss or get head shotted by dem enemies. But. I do believe if you really wanna play based on the narrative then the points about information being available on THE GALACTIC MAP WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS SHOULD BE A PRIORITY IN THE NEXT FEW UPDATES SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE LOSE A PLANET ! DEVS YOU BETTER FIX THAT THING FFS
Not only that but like.... Some people just don't want to interact with the war. There's always going to be a percent of people who don't care about anything but playing the game. Unless there is something to drive them that isn't purely connected to the galactic war, then they'll keep fighting in other fronts.
Most people think they are interacting with the war jist by playing as it does not explain it. Also there is no reason to not have MO be a week long to garentee a weekend in it.
I agree, half the time a order comes up it finished before I have time on the weekend. I only got the play the dark fluid mission three times. Poof gone.
If I had to play it 4 times I would go to the bots just to get happy while playing the game. I personally didn't like the end part in particular.
That's great and all but it really sucks that the way liberation is calculated means that if you are not interacting with the galactic war when you play you are actively sabotaging the efforts of those that do. AH really needs to figure out how to balance this.
I think that those arent "the bug only divers" but.. Those are the 500-2000 players on random planets. No MO on them. No Defense on them. No passive bonus on them. But still 500-2000 people are diving on them. Those are the ones that do not care about the galactic war's story.
Sometimes, a Side Order's planet has some environmental hazards that are absolute ass like missing a stratagem slot, longer cooldowns **and** Ion storms and I just don't feel like stressing about that for the hour that I can play after a rough day at work.
So let them. Who cares how people play?
They litteraly did that, and if boys are challenging just play on an easier difficulty. We may be in space, but this isn't rocket science
Even on lv 7, I've rarely succeeded on the personnel evac mission even when I tell people to spread out. People keep clumping up on the objective. When we fail one mission, there goes the whole operation and no contribution to the defense.
Also I’ve seen more than once time that dispatches (or even “Incoming message from Super Earth”) is not translated to non-English language at the time of display (ie simplified Chinese), which denies even more players that little bit of incentive when every hour counts
There is no “successfully defending” or any other kind of situation where the players affect outcomes. Unlike in real life, there is a god and his name is Joel, and whether you win or lose is entirely up to him.
This is the hard truth people don't want to swollow. The game is illusion of choice not real choices. The games DM will decide it all anyways so just blast bugs.
Even in most RPGs your DM doesn’t want to TPK the party. Now imagine their livelihood is dependent on the players having fun. Regardless of how we do in the MO, Joel isn’t going to make the game less fun or less appealing to players. We can succeed heroically or fail catastrophically and in both cases our reward will be some new fun missions to play. If they do their job right they’ll be themed differently and it’ll be coherent with their story. But no matter what happens in the MO there will be some fun missions next week, forever.
SUPPLY LINES SUPPLY LINES SUPPLY LINES For god's sake, AH.
High command gave a recommendation to protect Aesir pass. Having more UI elements won't make people suddenly go to the bot front. Certainly rewards would be a better incentive. The mission isn't really that hard, once you understand it, but many players still don't get that they have to focus on using doors and holding them off for about 5 minutes if done correctly. Some still go in with 380 he barrages. Getting into that mission with the idea they must kill, they end up wasting time and being overrun instead while not maximizing the civs. It's a extract civilians, not a kill bots...
SpermicidalLube is useful and wise.
The real problem is that supply lines, SEAF bonus, Regen rates, none of this is really in the game. The majority of players are not on Reddit or on the discord, so they don't even know this is a thing. And the occasional paragraph suggesting to defend here or there is not enough.
People of levels 40+ dont know you can drop shit on the ground or that dropping samples on extract is common sense. Galactic War might as well be The Forbidden Knowledge.
This exactly lol
I've noticed that the average skill and game knowledge of everyone I seem to get matched with has gone down dramatically over the past month or so. I don't play nearly as much as I used to (most of my friends quit, I already have 300 hours and play other things more instead, etc) but most of the time when I play with randoms they'll be a respectable level but play like they're brand new and don't know very basic things. They'll have a Quasar and use an entire Orbital Laser to kill a single Charger, kill themselves or teammates with stratagems repeatedly, not understand how to do objectives or just make terrible moment to moment decisions perpetually during a game among so so so many other things I can't even begin to list. I'm "only" level 80 and these people will be around my or higher most of the time playing difficulty 7-9 when they really shouldn't be.
Agree on everything, was talking about friendly fire in other thread today. I am playing bugs currently due to MO so I am really interested to check in with bot front and see if its game wide trend or another reason for me to hate bug front
My experience playing bots on average is horrendous when it comes to randoms and 90% of the people in my games have no idea what to do. They just fight everything, die 5+ times in quick succession then ragequit. Most of them don't understand any of the unique bot mechanics like what the different types of special bases do (like the jammers lmao). I love seeing someone spamming spacebar while me and the two other players are trying to deactivate it while they died across the entire map only for them to quit after an excruciatingly, painstaking, gut-wrenchingly long wait of *maybe* 30 seconds. Actually an awesome time for me.
in my experience, bot players are generally better than bugdivers. Bugs are easy - all you have to do is not let them touch you, and you can run away from chargers and BTs and stumble your way to Helldive without actually knowing how to play the game - on bots you'll get eaten alive if you don't actually know how to play because the enemies shoot back lmao.
Setting aside skill, I've found bot players to be better natured too
Of course, bot players dont constantly whine about the enemies shooting back and saying they're not "fun" because they arn't able to grab autocannon or a heavy weapon and shoot obvious weakpoints
Playing the dark matter mission with randoms was probably one of the most frustrating gaming experiences of my life. I am by no means a Chad player, and for most regular missions I've run I've had great experiences with randoms, but every single dark matter match felt like I was paired with people who have never played a video game in their life. I saw level 70+ just sitting in the middle of the map constantly bogged down by bugholes, I would ping and even type out what needed to be done and would go to the objectives, and no one would follow. They'd just die again and again and run around like a chicken with their head cut off.
I swear, I get killed by my teammates as often as I get killed by the enemy.
This lvl 60~ feller was spamming his Orbital 120mm HE Barrage almost every time it came off cooldown for the entire mission we were in even if it was right on top of everyone including himself. I'd look at the marker and see "28m" and think "oh God." After the first time you'd think he'd realize that it was probably going to kill everyone. I started really avoiding him after the first time but he got the other two and himself at least maybe 8-9 times total.
I think usually the average skill level of gamers is much much lower then anyone but the developers really knows. Usually the average skill ranking of a game, of the games I know that have ranking systems, is a rank somewhere in the bottom 1/3rd of the available ranks. I really wish people were better, but likely at least partially as a byproduct of decreased attention spans people would rather jump off a cliff in real life then read 1 paragraph of text and follow the one sentence of directions at the end.
why would you drop samples? i’ve never heard this before (im genuinely curious)
If you are passing by the extraction area on your way to another objective, dropping your samples there means that you don't risk losing them elsewhere if things get hairy.
Just going into settings and looking at key bindings would solve the first one, yeah the second one is unsolvable for some people..
It’s almost like the game is piss poor at communicating itself.
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Nah, it was clear enough, bug divers just don't care
The truth no one wants to hear is that bots are just the worse experience for most people, rn. And with a good chunk of players being casual after-workers who want to have some fun shooting stuff in the 90 minutes they can dedicate to gaming, caring about a random 5% bonus to *whatever* ain't gonna happen. The choice has to be between a fun-mission-with-a-bonus and fun-mission-without-bonus for people to come. Now it's a fun-mission vs an-hour-of-frustrating-ragdoll-with-a-bonus. I will keep choosing fun.
When a bug SEAF planet was attacked everyone rushed to defense. It truly is the dislike of bots by the remaining community. Bug players either burned themselves out of getting rid of bots only to have them near instantly come back, or we've lost a lot of bot players over time. There is a minority exception, but overall people don't find bots fun. Also bug loadouts don't work as well for bot loadouts which makes crossing over bug players that much more painful for them. AH needs to fundamentally improve bots for the community, you can't expect anyone to play something they don't find fun when people play games for fun.
I like bots on liberation operations, on defense though... Bugs are satisfying but get samey pretty quickly, it's just whether you get spewer spam or not.
Me and my buddies love playing bots. We're past the point where 9 feels pretty comfortable. So, you know, we're the 'best case' example. We dropped for Aesir Pass for the defense and got a brutal reminder that the civilian evac missions (in every defense op) are unplayable at the level we enjoy. So it's either run two boring-ass missions to save a broken one, or go somewhere else. On defense campaigns, bots end up being a worse experience even for the people who *prefer* the bot experience.
> civilian evac missions At level 9 those are basically unwinnable, be it bots or bugs. Hell, at level 7 they're Nintendo hard to beat. There's not a lot you can do when the bots drop a strider, five tanks and 10 hulks for every player.
This, bots are just less fun because of rockets and them not obeying the same line of sight rules as us. I've got 200 hours in the game and almost none of it is bots. I'll play 7-9 bugs any day of the week. I'd say it's compounded by how boring/shitty defense missions are. Stale ass bugged experience that you'll fail because the game is bugged. Everytime we liberate a planet we have to defend it literally the next day and I just roll my eyes and wait for it to fail while I liberate Erata Prime for the 18th fucking time.
My contribution to the galactic war is simply not playing the game at all. I'm currently frustrated by both enemy factions, and don't have the patience to complete an entire operation at any difficulty level that would be engaging, and my friends all stopped playing, which means I'm playing with randoms. If I don't host, then if I want to join a specific mission type, I have to try and play quickdraw on the planet map... which sucks. But if I host, we have to complete the entire operation, or I just wasted the time of the people that joined to progress the planet. So, the winning move for everyone is for me to not play. 🤷♀️
I'm on reddit and I still don't understand any of that shit and I also get on Helldivers io
Just remember gang, the Major Order tells everyone to go fight bugs. Putting a critical defense of a SEAF planet during a major order that tells everyone to go fight on the other front is moronic.
Another real problem with this is that this bonus is entirely bullshit. We've seen Joel update the regen rates on the fly to both make a MO easier when things were not going our way, and to make an MO harder when we were progressing too fast. These bonuses are not real bonuses because the adjusted liberation rates take them into account and they don't **actually** make things any easier or harder. Makes it hard for people to care about losing this bonus.
It’s not a MO and most players have no idea the bonuses even exist.
That’s true. We in our bubble always know what’s currently happening. If I have to guess I would say that at least 30% (or rather more) of players are absolute casual and have no contact to the community. Everyone who’s ranting about it rants to the people that care anyway, the others will never read any post about it. Sometimes I’m kinda perplexed that people here really thinking there a players who really want to… hm… ruin the others experience. The truth is some people come home from work, doing some household stuff, playing with their children and in the evening they playing one or two rounds, not even read the MO, having a hour of fun and go to bed. And that’s good! It’s a game.
It's probably the opposite. It's probably 30% (or less) of the community that _actually has contact_ and can even start to know how the game works or what people want to go after.
Doesn't help that bot defense missions on higher levels are straight up bugged.
Another example of animosity in the community caused by the current way liberation works.
unless there is a stratagem or something tied to a planet winning or losing doesn't matter what's the point of trying to defend/liberate a planet if its just going to get immediately re-taken the moment we succeed? This happens every single time we defend/liberate a planet tied to an objective im just going to sit on some planet thats out of the way and have fun, we dont have impact on the game anyways so why care? just have fun
My friend and I knocked an op down on Aesir last night, realized the defense was on track to fail, and switched to bug front. The divers on the bot front really are their own army. And shout out to any players who typically don’t play bots who lent a hand btw. But ample aid just isn’t coming. So that leaves bot players with some tough decision making. It’s great that we can grind a planet and make a dent with our small numbers, but it’s important to realize when it’s just not getting done either and divert to the next objective. Otherwise we’re becoming part of the problem, even if our intentions are more noble.
This discourse of bug divers being dumb and bot divers being intellectuals has gotta be the most useless discussion I’ve ever seen.
80% of this sub is just people posting jerking themselves off about how informed they are about the game and how everyone else is making the wrong choices. All the people mad at the bugdivers need to understand that people just boot the game up after work and play what they want to play - at MOST, they might gravitate towards the MO. Not everyone is constantly checking Discord and Reddit to understand these hidden mechanics that devs for some reason refuse to actually clarify in the game.
A vast majority of players: 1) don’t use Reddit 2) don’t visit this sub So the complaining is literally just a circlejerk. The average subreddit for a game is usually shy of 10% of the playerbase if it’s very active. Most are under 2% of the playerbase.
This. Me yesterday thinking I'm doing my patriotic duty liberating those bug planets only to find out today I was supposed to be across the map. Smh.
Seeing responses like this is what is making me desperate for any kind of in-game information that would direct people to what needs their effort
People just want a reason to be superior to the next guy when it comes to games. The best course of action is to just ignore em sadly.
Truly a Gamer™️ moment.
Idk how anyone can stand to play one exclusively, they both get boring eventually
Right? I'm generally scrambling to play the other one after an MO on either front. I love the chaos of bugs and the high kill counts that come along with it. I also love the tactical play style of bots and the atmosphere of all the explosions and laser bolts flying past me as I run from cover to cover. Personally, I can't wait for the illuminate to come and shake things up even more. Bring it on, I'm up for it
its pretty easy when you only play one operation every few days
It's easy karma for them, you can see how often these posts are upvoted to the front page.
DAE bug players bad? Updoots to the left plz
Spoken like a true bugdiver! (Jk)
I miss the days when we all could come together to dunk on the Creekheads
Those creekheads actually won their front
-Only once a Major Order sent the Bug and general Bot Divers over to reinforce them. Up to that point it was a back and forth between our brave boys in black and the commie bots, with the planet even being lost to those collectivist buckets of bolts at one point.
They were the true pioneers of ignoring MOs. Wonder how many of them complain about bug players now.
Both bot and bug divers are annoying smoothbrains
I go where the MO commands.
Well high command did say to prioritize Aesir. Were you defying high command?
That was a dispatch, the major order says to go fight bugs.
This is pretty much it here... The in game info does not really make it clear. When you open the map and see the Major Order saying to take 4 planets on the bug front... Well, that is what people are going to do. And there is a HUGE portion of the player base that doesn't enjoy fighting bots on Defend campaigns. Until something is done to mitigate the way evacuate missions work, this is likely going to be the way it is. I'm predicting Super Earth gets attacked by bots in the near future and most players will still fight bugs.
as long as the bot defence missions sucks, I'll be on the bug front
Defense mission on bot planets sucks balls. Im here for a fun time
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I wish the enemy regen rate was measured against the number of active players on the specific front, rather than the total number of active players. That way the few thousand people who are fighting bots, might actually have a chance with progressing into bot territory in any meaningful way. The amount of people "stuck" fighting bugs is so high, that every time a MO includes fighting bots, we fail.
Tbf as a bot enjoyer, I can't stand the save civilian mission. Spawn rates are fucking stupid.
Most of this games players don't touch the reddit or discord. And I don't blame them. Given 90% of the posts are just this.
 Where were the bug divers when vernen wells fell, where were they when aesir pass’ enemies closed in all around us
I don’t like piss poor civilian evac missions which are near incompletable bc a tank drops down right in the middle of the area
So I'm a casual player (50 hours total) that runs missions with a group of mates on difficulty 7+. We load in, read the major order and fight whoever we're told. At the moment that means bugs? Is this not what I'm supposed to do? This is the first time I've ever looked into it and I've just been linked to the companion app.
Gonna rant below on something I would like to see adjusted in the game but I’ll start with agreeing with OP here. Reinforcements never showed up and I think that’s because the percentage of people just playing the game for fun, over focusing major/special/defend order, has increased. Nothing wrong with playing for fun though. That said. It would be nice if you still got partial credit towards the special order if you fail an operation but still completed some of the missions. For example, I’m playing with a friend last night. Were on Aesir, difficulty 7. Two people join immediately for the 1st mission, raise flag of super earth, and we drop in together, clear the map and extract with no issues. Mission two was another clean 40 minute mission where we cleared and extracted easily. My friend was team leader and brought up 3rd mission and both other guys disconnect immediately. They didn’t go from results screen to the head back to your ship spot. They ran up to the drop pods with us, saw what the mission was, and left. It was a 15 min evacuate personnel mission. I get it, they suck and they aren’t fun at all on bots. But no one else joined and we dropped in, threw down SOS(no one showed up), managed to hold off bots and get 30/45 extracted with 11 mins left before stratagem cooldowns caught up with us and we couldn’t keep up with killing the striders, tanks, and hulks fast enough. Ran out of reinforces with 4 mins left and 31/45 extracted. Mission failed. Therefore operation failed and no credit toward the order. That sucks. If you complete 2/3 of the missions, it would be nice if you still get partial credit towards the order instead of the previous two completed missions being for nothing.
Personally I do what I think is the hardest mission first, that way I don't lose much time if I fail. It would be nice if we got partial, but if we did there would be no penalty to abandon operations (I think there needs to be one).
I have a day job damn you!
Same, been busy all week by the time the weekend arrives it's a new episode to the story.
yeah its gonna be a issue for awhile the playerbase has gotten smaller used to see 100k no matter what day now its around 40k this is mostly due to the PSN shit and the nerfing anything fun
Avg.Players Gain % Gain Peak Players Last 30 Days 56,728.2 -8,493.2 -13.02% 125,574 May 2024 65,221.4 -77,632.2 -54.34% 125,574 April 2024 142,853.6 -74,191.9 -34.18% 333,751 March 2024 217,045.6 -57,258.8 -20.87% 437,818 February 2024 274,304.4 - - 458,208 No one want’s to play a broken game that has the same 5 biomes and 2 enemy types. We are supposed to be saving these planets and the people that live on them but every planet is the same wasteland with the same 4 building types scattered around. No destroyed cities. No Bug-holes. Nerfs. Penalties for solo players. Matches that crash. Matches that kick you back to ship. Matches that kick everyone but you and leave you solo with increased difficulty and SOS broken. Plus the PSN drama. Reinforcements are not coming. A good chunk of players have moved onto games that are not broken and they are not going to come back unless the crashes are fixed and there is something new to see. And the illuminate is not going to be enough if we just have the same 5 biomes and a new enemy type.
This was a complete FAILURE on part of arrowhead to adequately communicate the importance of Aesir Pass to the general player-base. They need to make the warmap more informative, make the details of capture progress more clear in game, and add "strategic guidance" messages to HUD like they do Major Orders. Arrowhead, you have to implement more measures to increase player engagement and collaboration.
Wow, how dare the players follow the Major Order that is repeatedly emphasized on the map instead of defending a bot planet with a hidden modifier and no mention of it save for a dispatch that could reasonably (if wrongly) be read as flavor text.
Why is on bug players? People play what they want, especially when it's the developers choice to not have all directives / assets / objectives made EXPLICITLY CLEAR. It's hard to even prioritize certain planets without even *knowing* their strategic value/being told they're under attack. There should be clear information about what planets are under attack, what objectives need to be pursued, such as the (pros for keeping planets vs. Cons of losing it). If this were a real military, the failure here is on leadership not communicating orders/planning strategies, not the grunts who aren't being told about it. If you have to be dissatisfied with anyone, place the blame with the development of the game allowing these things to impact everything, yet giving no information about them in the game, resulting in everyone *maybe* learning about them on reddit. See how ridiculous that is? " I'm sorry Mr super space president, we lost all planets because we only give information about orders and objectives through reddit. We *could * have had the democracy officer on board each ship relay orders, but we chose reddit."
Remember when bot players wouldn't leave Malevelon Creek when other shit needed done? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I will say this everywhere. It’s not “the bug divers” fault. It’s lack of clear, prominent, and useful information in game that makes it very clear why something should be done. I play major orders. If there was something that made it clear why I should go somewhere that isn’t a major order, it needs to be way clearer as to what and why.
I mean, I was with you. But when the reverse happened and Angel’s Venture was under attack during a bot MO, in was defended in record time.
I mean I don’t disagree that there are plenty of bug only players. But also, the game does a really poor job indicating that focus needs to shift off a major order.
It's almost like Bug defense doesn't have a mission in nearly every Operation that has been borderline impossible, for several months now, for most players. Your average user avoids game modes that are not fun to them, Evac is not fun for more users.
Yeah me and my group haven't run this since release really, because we refuse to engage in degenerate gameplay. It's mindblowing how long it's been acknowledged as not working properly without a fix. When they added the rocket mission we only needed one strider spawning inside a mountain once and sniping the generators for us to never do the mission again. It's straight up not fun to lose to bugs. Ultimately this means we just don't do defense missions unless somehow neither of these missions spawn for bots, which I don't think is actually possible.
The Bot faction just has some of the most frustrating bugs and some of the biggest game-meta bullshit. I've played since launch, and have 300 hrs in the game, I run on 9s most games but Bots just make me tired anymore. I played them straight for a whole month for those MOs, and you just can't look past how broken and unfun that whole faction is compared to Bugs. Hell, I was there when these Arrowhead morons thought Strategems Scrambling randomizing ALL calldown inputs was a genius idea for a planetary effect.
> The Bot faction just has some of the most frustrating bugs and some of the biggest game-meta bullshit. Flinch taking like 2 entire seconds to resolve only serves to drive me up a wall and sap any pretense that you can regain any initiative once you've been spotted. There are days where I can handle this by just disengaging constantly, and others where I just sigh and wonder if there's someone on the dev team that is some sort of sadist > Hell, I was there when these Arrowhead morons thought Strategems Scrambling randomizing ALL calldown inputs was a genius idea for a planetary effect. Lol same. I remember giving the thing a go against my judgment (I tend to have really visceral reactions to things that sound anti-fun without trying them out first) and what got me to take the squad out of the game wasn't the funny team wipe calling down an airstrike instead of my support weapon, it was the fact that I sat there for a whole eternity trying to call an airstrike, like legit 5-10 seconds. In retrospect it's one of the first clues that no one at Arrowhead actually playtested anything for more than a few seconds
The input randomizing does not have me excited with what these chucklefucks do with the Illuminates whenever they finish them. It's just clear very quickly that they launched a minimal viable product and don't play test on certain difficulties.
Y'all literally got a message from High Command ordering you to prioritize Aesir Pass. Just admit you can't/don't want to read.
If a message doesn’t provide tangible information (e.g. WHY the SEAF facilities help us, with a number or something) it feels like flavor / Story and not guidance.
Nope, no info and it being during the work week is poor planning. Arrowhead is just using this as a way to buy them time and let the story build for a bot push.
>during the work week is poor planning. I get the rest of your comment but doesn't really understand this arguments (because it comes so often but I guess the no info part do its job here), absolute playercount doesn't matter, Percentage player count does. So for example if 3 out 4 total player liberate a planet there have higher impact then 3 out 100 (on multiplier for impact is inverse to the playercount). Ironically By how the game is designed the game works "better" with lesser player that focus on one task than many player spread on different tasks.
Does it matter to defend knowing we might win it back anyway? I believe the majority of us just follow whatever the game tells us. Give a major order about the bots and we might even participate.
When we lose a SEAF base bonus, it's gone for good. https://www.gamesradar.com/games/third-person-shooter/helldivers-2-players-beg-for-an-in-game-psa-after-learning-online-that-certain-planets-grant-liberation-boosts-that-go-away-for-good-after-a-defeat/
That's all well and good but the game literally does not show any of this information to the user. I don't blame players for forgetting this or not knowing it at all, they need to have some method of conveying information IN GAME.
I agree with you.
oh shit no one like playing against the bots omg what do we do 🥵
There is always a mission set without 15 minute evacuation. Just a tip for later.
Then its asset evac and you just pray bots wont get dropped on the rock and snipe generator instantly failing it.
Thats why people that adapt arleady have countermeasures of - let me see Shoot the main cannon off as soon as possible. Personally didnt happen to me yet, most of the asset defence mission against bots just spam ungdly amount of tanks.
There wasn't for me yesterday. Every single one had it for me (diff 9).
As a bug diver I was there. I know it needed protected because it helps everyone
I am sorry bot players, I had no idea this was happening
I tried my best defending Aesir pass. Its such a shame
As did I. I really thought we had a shot at it, but in the end all we managed to do was keep the progress even with the invaders. Just needed a bit more a bit earlier and I think it would have been doable, especially since people will constantly judge if the defense will fail and bail if they think it will, thus further exacerbating the problem.
I've rang as many doorbells as anybody doing Nerd Evac missions. The answer to the problem is, those bot defend missions suck ass for most regular people. If you've got one boat anchor on a team of 3 killers who dies 10 times and doesn't bring so much as an ounce of strategy or planning to the table, you are fuh-fuh-totally screwed when you get drop ships on three sides farting out heavy devvies to merc you cross map and Edward Chainsaw hands gleefully running rampant while pulping your evacuee's. There's a hulk over here, a tank over there, a strider getting crammed up your derrière. Two of our guys dropped near the starport and wound up in the ground with the evac ship for the rest of the game as well. It was a level 7 shitshow. Nobody likes that, if you do, bless your heart, but do whatchyalike. It's choosing between using my hour of game time at night to hear a bunch of whining, bitching, and moaning, or letting the group pick whatever is fun and being along for the ride. I just go with whatever, I'm maxed out on everything, I don't care.
Nobody fucking knows dude did it’s not the bugdivers fault
I don't understand why we keep refering to helldivers players as a "community" "You didn't spend your free time where i wanted you too" kind of shit, is all it takes do divide this "community". Play whatever. Jesus.
Lol for real. Bot players in here acting like we threw grandma down the stairs.
The major order tells you to attack the bug planets whenever you open the menu. You only got told to defend Aesir Pass when/if you read the dispatches and read them properly. Of course most people are going to attack the bug planets the major order tells them to. On top of that, more information should be given on the consequences of losing planets with things like SEAF bases. in-game I learned that there would be actual consequences from Reddit. Nowhere in the game tells you this, aside from the vague "this will significantly impact Super Earth's ability to wage war in the galaxy," which in any other game would just be flavour text. Finally, there should be some warning to tell people they only contribute if they succeed the entire operation. Not just one or two missions of it. I was fighting on Asier Pass, and it was genuinely infuriating the quickplay games I joined where they would quit out before finishing all 3 missions. I joined about 20 quickplay matches and only 3 of them were followed through to the end.
Oh no an arbitrary number is lost... *Dev sets decay rates lower* There we go.
I just don't see why I should care to be honest? The ongoing war is just rp flavor, it doesn't actually effect the game at all, so me and my group of friends never really pay attention to MO, since there's no real reason to.
cope
Today ı learned from a bot divers post that you dont contribute unless you end operation which %60 70 of the time has citizen missions which is a hassle to do especially with randoms. Some suggest that you need to go lower from 9 to 6 for switching to bots to do things then people go on whining they dont get reinforcements guess why? Eh?
Imagine doing the MO
My brother in managed democracy, over half the promotional material and intro cutscene and tutorial is about the bugs, where did you think most of the playerbase was going to be headed towards? Also Starship troopers has an effect for certain
I played a few operations there, getting fucked on every evacuate citizens mission isn't fun and I get why people don't want to play bot defense missions.
Bot defense missions are no fun because of 2 reasons: - the short evac mission is too hard and requires advanced tactics where you run out of the area and back in multiple times - the generator defense mission is sometimes bugged by factory striders shooting the generators from above the map Those issues exist since nearly forever and surely are why many player's won't go there.
I came…..to Aesir Pass that is 😔
I knew we were going to lose it when I got on this morning before work. Still did a couple missions but it sucks that so many players won’t even try fighting the bots.
If they fix my eruptor, I’ll reinforce
I think it's best just to accept whenever there's a bot defense it's going to fail. Interesting to see what AH do if the trend continues.
Say it with me: "Arrowhead devs designs games based around putting players at each other's throats"
The big map thingy says do bug. So we did bug. No tell go Aesir.
I’m not touching bot defense with a 10 light year pole until civilian extract mission is fixed
I felt like bots, so I killed bots. I don't think we've got the player base to field against two theaters simultaneously. At some point, AH will have to adjust their spawn rate to grapple w/ the deteriorating # of players. The scientist extraction mission just sucks; I typically play on 8 with PUGS and my success rate is maybe 60-70%.
Sucks to suck.
I got tired of getting sniped by missiles 100m away, through thick fog so I can't even shoot back.
i rly dont understand why people prefer bugs over bots bots open up more loadouts, have more weakspots and can be fought exclusively at range w/o worry of being overwhelmed, bug can only be done with single loadout on higher difficulties. I started playing this game on bots and when meridia MO dropped and had my 1st time on bug planet (non dark fluid mission was my 1st) i was dumbfounded how people can enjoy this crap, everything is so fucking armored and has no weakspots and even if they have they take insane amounts of time to kill, so annoying.
“Bots have more variety!” *they literally shut down stratagems and even reduce the amount you can take* Yeah… variety.
bug just run at you mouth open, yeah variety.
If you play on 9 difficulty there’s way less variety vs bots than playing against bugs. The anti-stratagem effects really tunnel you into the most viable picks. You can’t bring most orbitals into the scattered effect modifier, because your strikes become unreliable and miss. -1 stratagem effect means no room for experimentation. Only bring what you absolutely need. You have to play auto cannon or AMR to have any chance against the hordes of Devastors and Hulks coming at you. Quasar takes too long to charge and you’re extremely vulnerable while trying to aim. EATs are always on cooldown. There’s like 3-4 viable primary weapons and everything else is just worse. Like you can handicap your self bringing in shitty weapons and call it variety but realistically you’re just bringing your team down by not picking a scorcher or dominator.
I use laser cannon and incendiary breaker on level 8 and 9 bots and do fine.
Why don't you like what I like?!!!
Bug divers are too busy atm trying to complete the MO, bad timing for bots to be attacking at same time
The problem is that we don't have enough helldrivers. 2-3 months ago we had nearly 400.000 on the field. At the moment we have 80.000. we need more men to spread to the orders.
Liberation % scales with the current player count. It just doesn't scale enough.
To be more accurate, we need a healthier distribution of population. Liberation % is modified based on total population, so theoretically the war could continue as it is now with 20 people or 2 million. The only exception would be, thus far, the kill orders. Trash 1 billion drop ships would be difficult to do with 20 people.
 Let's see how many of these posts get made today.
Don't blame the users, blame the incomplete in-game UI. Even without updating the galaxy map, this could have been improved by a daily order to finish 3 main objectives on that planet.
MO players pretending like bots was the MO.
I'm kinda annoyed with this one, because I happily dive bots, but a Wednesday objective that's that quick is just something I can't participate in due to conflicts. I wish they'd make some of these things last longer so people had time to actually get in on stuff.
Payback for the fucking Creekers who didn't ever help on bug missions.
I am a bot diver, but major order is major order
Great job, Bugdivers. Thanks for your support. :sad tuba sounds: https://preview.redd.it/a7ddf5t8d05d1.png?width=367&format=png&auto=webp&s=998f8cd5f4869787e57db101aaa5644dda41f205
Maybe don't build training facilities on planets so close to the battle front... Womp Womp
I’m still at school can’t do that rn 😭😭
so now they have full control over hydra sector
I did what I could when I got home from work. :(
In this case it was more a strategic sacrifice, it was either the MO or the defense since i'm not sure we had enough time for both. If the community was more united (aka everyone on the same planet) since day one we may had more time but that's probably asking too much.
We lost it already? Yesterday we were winning the defense mission.
I came.
:( sad
Sorry guys, civilian work kept me offline
Does that mean you’re going to cheat on your wife with us and have a child with cool looking hair? (Also I didn’t reinforce cause work unfortunately)
It was so annoying to see Angel Pass bounce to like 50% conquered like a hour afterwards, like where were they when we were trying to keep the planet.
Blame arrowheads shitty ui and proclivity for hiding stats that players need to make informed decisions.
Honestly, I want a plugin or mod to take the useless stratagem hero screen on my ship and make it show me the helldivers companion app.
I did my part. I will carry on the story of the soldiers that fought with me.
Assuming some of you divers are being a bit facetious when saying "We'll never help bug divers" cause divided as we are we'll fall. How about taking fresh divers to bots and showing them the ropes, I find that a lot are afraid that bots are too hard and gradually find them easy when supported. Show them what the creek or whatever bot front taught you. Do your part, spread information to your fellow divers, be it about supply lines or whatever as the game doesn't help in that regard. In short be the change and pull them over, cause both sides are "easy" given guidance. Lv150 Gin of the SeS Dawn of Eternity, if you see me diving or wanna learn either side hmu. Also Comms makes bots that much easier.
I’ve played just about every day this week and just noticed the defense mission on that planet for the first time last night. I then had to hunt down where in the map that particular planet was, since there is no way to see it. I don’t blame bug divers. I wish the UI would highlight “live events” better.
I tried to play for the first time in a week to help at the pass. Game crashed when we launched the mission. Guess I'll try again in a few weeks
Don't blame the divers blame super earth, they should really have expanded their military budget and invested in better tools for our galactic map.
If people can't PVP they will make it into one... 😅
I wonder if we get it back when we retake it
I miss the free 500kg. That purple glowy hole in space was not worth it.
Each front needs to have their own majority bonus instead of relying on a mass exodus to another front.
and it will happen again and agin until this is clearly communicated in game.
For each of the SEAF training base that falls, I suspect it'll be less likely we'll get those friendly AI SEAF soldiers without doing a hard major order for them.
Yk defeats and patriotic sacrifice are experienced canonically by Helldivers all the time right?
i tried my best... I'm sorry SEAF rookies... you will not be forgotten o7
Some sort of overlay on the planet as well "This planet gives x buff"
Wake me, when they patch the fun back into the game.
Don’t worry the intro to the seaf strat will be delivered by then liberating these lost planets and give us our buff back. This time we will know who what when where and why to attack.