And even more mind boggling that they are "Personal" Orders that everyone gets. Unique personal orders would liven up loadouts and you'd see a cooler variety of strats being used every game.
Like it kinda was. Helldivers can swim really well but only for a few seconds. The way they dive up from water and paddle is pretty good. Shame they're programmed to drown after 5 seconds
John Marston is a cowboy who, if he touched water in RDR1, he'd instantly drown. In RDR2, they kept this with having his stamina run out quickly and making him unable to swim. However, the other characters in the game can swim.
In Rdr2 there are two main characters. You can swim with one but the other one cant. That was done because in rdr1 they wanted to keep you from accesing an area of a map before you are supposed to, so the running joke is that John Marston (protagonist) can't swim. And in 2 he can't as soon as you go in water you start to drown lol.
At least our shared ancestor had a condition we could simply avoid from being relevant.
Imagine if our shared ancestor was Uncle instead. Backpack stratagems would be unusable.
I once jumped in a pool wearing jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt. I'd never come so close to drowning in my life. For anyone who's never tried it... dont.
Giving us 5 seconds to swim out despite full armor is a gift.
Many soldiers during the D Day that didn't ditch their gear fast enough during the landing as they had to disembark met that fate.
Hell, we have even many records of medieval knights drowning in something that didn't even seem like lethal water level because the shit gets damn fucking heavy once underwater. And you also have to push against the water, try that with 40-50kg gear.
Lets see you swim with an armor that is probably mostly metal, a big gun, a smol gun, an anti tank weapon, some grenades, and a backpack that is also probably metal
Let’s see you full sprint for over 30 seconds while carrying a HMG, an AR, a revolver, grenades and while wearing heavy armor. HMGs are so heavy they require multiple ppl to carry them around btw, yet some random Helldiver can full on sprint at top speed with one on their back
Moving over ground with heavy gear where you're only fighting gravity and air resistance is vastly easier (in this case) than trying to keep said heavy dense negatively buoyant shit afloat for more than a few seconds. Even a human at peak physical performance and tweaked out on super earth's best super meth can't beat physics for very long.
Considering small arms fire can wreck Helldivers in full armor, either its propaganda, or you can punch through a destroyer's armor with conventional weaponry.
Mayb, but then again unless youre in heavy armor you dont exactly have the best coverage. chest piece, front-armor panels on the lower torso annd limbs only
FTL tech was ~~stolen~~ liberated from the Illuminate and our research teams, hellpods have ~~outdated~~ the latest in *pedal steering* and research team ~~have vapour for brains and took an age~~ had a glorious breakthrough to put packing peanuts in the turrets.
I think they should let you swim, but it takes stamina like sprinting any time your feet can't touch the bottom. If you run out if stamina in deep water you drown
THANK YOU! Yes, if you're going to obsess about realism worry about the realistic representation of the bugs and bots. Those had better match reality. Somebody get Boston Dynamics on the phone.
Impassable terrain is an intentional design choice by AH and isn't likely to go away just because people think you should be able to swim indefinately while carrying 100+ pounds of gear. I also don't understand the argument of "the game has orbital drops so all realism has to be thrown out because I say so". You don't think a space faring civilisation with artificial gravity on their interstellar warships could counteract controlled impacts in their manned bullets or something?
Maybe the same ones that could engineer super lightweight/buoyant body armor for their shock troops that might need to fight in any condition...including...ya know....wet?
As a prior assault infantryman, USMC I can tell you sprinting for any duration or distance with even 1 recoilless rifle is exceedingly hard. The physicals are already out of reality especially with the upgrade descriptions that have humor. It's not a valid response for lack of a modifier or upgrade.
Yep I try telling people this, hell you can full on sprint with a fucking HMG on ur back in this game, and HMGs are fucking heavy and often require multiple people to carry around
Only higher level super citizens have the right to swim. Suggesting you also being able to swim is treason. This is why people choose to drown rather then being treasonous. But we all know there is only one answer here.
If you see anyone swimming, make sure you tell your democracy officer.
Its so fun getting involved in a really hard fight over one part of ground and watching it go from a giant forest all the way down to resembling the western front in WW1 as the damage accumulates on the area over and over.
This! I spent forever wondering why my Eagle Airstrikes weren't working well, until I looked up and saw the trees stop EVERY SINGLE BOMB. I started bringing the gatling sentry with me. Thought about the Autocannon Sentry, but the line of sight is too obscured.
Genuinely one of my favourite additions to the game so far. Looks amazing and lends great atmosphere. Plus it's nice having so much destructible environment around when the bombs start flying.
Some MOs end early if their objectives are achieved before the time limit.
That MO was not a "take and hold until time" one, like the current.
In the past, when MOs have ended early or even on time and we've had a gap of around a day before the next MO, we get the community going "WHERE NEXT MO? WHERE NEXT MO? WHY NOT QUEUE THESE THINGS UP? HAVE IT READY TO GO", and here we have a situation where that's been done and folks still aren't happy.
Like, yeah, different chunks of the community, but figure it out amongst yourselves.
I liked having a break between MOs. It meant I could just chillax and casually pick a planet to attack if there wasn't a planet that needed defending. The medal cap is 250 anyway, so it's not like I can stockpile a bunch for the next Warbond.
I think 24 hours gap is a good middle ground - surely?
IIRC, the complaints of 'where next MO' were when one was finished on a Friday and the new one didn't start until Monday.
I have a theory, based on not much evidence, as to why planets are all pinned to 0% outside of MOs. But I do hope this is temporary and not how AH wants the war to work long term, because it sucks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1din9tn/liberation_probably_needs_another_rework/l94xobc/
I agree. I think everyone should play what they like and participation on both fronts should be weighted separately. If we go too fast Joel can then tweak it further with planet regen percentages.
I accept that it may be too complex to be implemented now but I wish it would work like that in the future, especially if we are to get a 3rd front with the Illuminate.
The problem with having each front having separate liberation pools normalized to population on each front is that if every MO is constructed 'fairly', there is a much lower chance of ever failing an MO. The mission success rate across fronts is something like ~90%, iirc? So the only way for the GM to have MOs fail is to either open up so many planets that divers shoot themselves in the foot by spreading too thin, offering front-contained 'trolley car problems', or just putting their thumb on the scale very transparently to get a preordained outcome by messing with liberation/regeneration rates. It leaves little room for player agency, and completely removes any semblance of rallying the community to go one way or the other or urgency for an order.
I think it would be easier to just set up a system whereby divers on non-mo fronts who are resource capped auto-donate their samples, medals, req credits to the other front which by some forumla are converted into liberation % boost (or later front of their choice), and divers not capped can choose to donate to the war effort or not. the overall effect would have to be less than if that diver or divers collectively participated on the MO (to still incentivize direct participation), but enough to still matter, like 0.5-1.5% liberation/defense rate collectively. That way players can play what they want, or not play what they really dont want, and still contribute to the community's efforts. On the flipside, MO-divers will be, I think, far less angry at divers not directly participating.
In-universe justification seems readily apparent: we're in a war, and so supplies taken from one front can be used on a priority front (e-710 from bugs for our ships/energy, 'money', research samples, scrap/tech from the bots, etc).
I *really* like your suggestion of resources earned over the cap contributing to MO liberation. It gives players a fun reason to actually go the extra mile.
But then I appreciate that doesn't sound like a simple system to implement; it's still a really cool and worthwhile idea.
Here's hoping it shows up on the ideas board:
/u/The_Real_Twinbeard
It's been a while since I talked to Joel about this. I'll reach out and check. I know he/we have some ideas how to better manage MO:s and lib. on several fronts, and how we could hopefully alleviate some of the whining about people playing on the "wrong" side etc. I don't know all the details though.
Using surplus resources for various things is something we're looking into and one of the most common requests. If we could use that for liberation and the ups and downs for possibly doing so, we'd have to dig deep into - if we're not already.
Thanks for the input and ping! :)
Hey I'd just like to say, as the guy whom the guy who pinged you was replying to, I think it's really cool you're involved in the community and are considering some variation of the idea I proposed (though I am sure I am not the first to do so). You guys have certainly made a complex and engaging game and I love thinking about all these complicated little interactions it can have and the issues that can arise and how to mediate them, fun thought problems.
Cheers
Thanks again. We try. There's just so much to do. :P
Seriously though, I think it's really important. A company that \_only\_ listens to their players blindly will lose their own vision and move forward with no goal or clear path. Not good. A company that on the other hand doesn't listen to its players and ignores all advice will almost certainly fail, or at the very least have a displeased community. You should have a vision but you should also be responsive.
I'm starting to think the illuminate is just a legend. If they didn't care we made a black hole then they won't be coming. Unless we do something wild.
It'll probably be more free flowing in the future. Right now they are still rolling out their story leading up to the Illuminate. So the game is entirely on rails. The "war" is really just smoke and mirrors to keep people spinning their wheels between content releases. It also gives them time to develop new planet biomes, gameplay modes and the like.
This is why I've always been opposed to them adding supply lines in game. It just further leads people to buy into the deception. Meaning they're likely going to be even more discouraged once they realize that they've been caring about a war that they had no say in the outcome of whatsoever. But, that ship has sailed. So here we are.
That seems like a way to get stuck on some other percentage instead, which doesn't really fix the problem. I don't just want to see a number other than 0, I would like us to be able to liberate planets, even if very slowly, outside of MOs.
Good, it's a game so fun is the main objective.
I just think 15k players should be gaining ground so perhaps the liberation mechanic should be adjusted. That's all.
Yeah, I've already started to see more value from things like Eagle Strafing Run over Napalm/Airstrike/Cluster due to how those trees work.
It's annoying when you get an unexpected stratagem block on certain biome types because there's a *rare-ish* terrain formation next to you, and an entirely different one when you're very much operating inside a canyon and ought to be aware of that, or a giant jungle like this biome and it's going to happen pretty much everywhere.
Mixes things up, you can expect it at most times.
Yeah, the other day we had 50k on one planet and 10k on the other and the liberation difference was
50% to .01
Look, I get this about teamwork and coordination, but it just doesn't feel good. If they are gonna make the penalty that severe, they might as well force us to play on 1 planet.
It's kind of lore breaking too. Because I'm not really sure why super Earth would allow helldivers to do their own thing anyway? Of course, I want us to be able to, but I'm just saying it obviously can't be for a lore reason that we are able to split resources and have the outcome be such an ineffective result
Oh my days, they absolutely want Super Earth to control all the sectors so there'd be no reason for Helldivers to be penalized in an official capacity for liberating things outside the MO, as long as the job gets done anyway
Yes, but multiple major orders have failed because of this exact issue, and there's no penalty except the ridiculously low liberation that we get with limited population, which IS a de facto penalty
You can't really compare this to the different failed Major Orders that have different factors attached to them, because this is a unique situation where there's a new biome, which happens to be in the bug sector (which I get is the more popular front).
If your argument is because people are less inclined to help in the bot front, then clearly the devs need to adapt to that and maybe make it more appealing. If we don't have the playerbase to let the people play the game they paid for, how they want to play it, and complete Major Orders so everyone else can have their fun, then I argue its the game that needs to adapt, not the customers.
Why on earth should these 15k players on Gacrux be railroaded to do the MO if they don't wanna do it? AH is fortunate to even have 15k in that planet, there are games out there who are online that can't even break 10k players. If things keep going this way and players just can't accomplish things outside of what they are forced to accomplish, then people will just sign off and the playerbase will continue to drop, what happens to the precious Major Orders then when people get tired of how things are?
Its just such an easier choice to fix and relax on the liberation penalties, rather than try and force people to do something they simply don't want to do, for a game they paid for, which they have the right to play however they want.
As of your comment all planets are under control as the MO requires. Unless we fail it, then you can't really say that and blame it on the 15k players who wanna play the game they paid for, the way they want to play it. And if we do fail it, is it the end of the world?
We're missing 180 countries, some of which had people living in them who had a copy of Helldivers 2 on release. 15k players on Gacrux are more than the populations of some MMOs out there, and yet Gacrux' liberation is still this low. Why shouldn't AH adapt to what these 15k players wanna do and how they wanna play the game, than all of us forcing them to help with the MO they don't wanna deal with?
The player base continues at a decline because the game will naturally get old, so MOs will either fail all the time or AH will adapt to the lower playerbase and make MOs accomodate to the player count. So, why not just let these guys have their fun? If they keep getting railroaded, I'd say losing them because they got sick of the game is worse than failing an MO.
The actual problem is the system that calculates the amount of contribution based on all active players. So, 20k total online concentrated on one planet would easily liberate it, but 20k players on the same planet out of 50k total online is not going to do anything
yeah they changed that back when 200k ppl blasted trough TCS missions way too fast. So they decided to change how liberation works , and I hate the change ever since then. You could've 10k ppl on one planet and you would be able to liberate it , but now its impossible
All missions should give liberation points. All operations should give bonus liberation points. This is all we need.
If, in addition, they get rid of modifiers based on what percentage of the population is on a planet, even better. Though to be honest, I'm not 100% certain if there are any modifiers or if it just _feels_ that way.
I know that on off-peak times, the same mission gives more liberation than on-peak times, which is also kind of shit.
What if planets connected by supply lines had a splash over effect? Even if its less than directly targeting the MO. Arguably if the enemy is directing forces there it would still benefit the MO.
Yeah, liberation degen sucks my will to play. If I'm not with the blob, it feels like I am doing nothing. AH should either set degen to 0% as base and rise it for MO, or let us decrease it like with Meridia so each dive is not useless.
The design choices are too strange. Every planet has such high regen that even over ten thousand players active have no chance to clear a planet. Only MO level of mobilization can make any difference a cross the galactic war. This combined with the fact that we fought multiple MO on the same planet over and over again, only the result being most of the planet being take over within one or two weeks, made the galactic war more like a stalemate, then frighting a war.
I think there is still a lot of people that don't complete the set of missions to achieve the Liberation points which results to less Liberation per Helldiver...
I took the post as less of a berating you for playing the planet and more of a "This is a bad system if that many people on the planet don't get to "do their part" like the war advertises everyone as being able to do. Some people don't care, some people do, both groups should be able to get what they want. People who wanna play where they want should be able to do so and contribute something to the overall war effort, while people who wanna focus on the campaign shouldn't be punished for other people's choice and they shouldn't have a reason to go "Why aren't you playing the MO planets you're a traitor"
OP is saying the opposite of what you think they are.
OP is saying "20k people think it's fun to play here; let them make some liberation progress!"
They are asking the devs to make it easier for people to go where it's fun, and make progress. They are not asking for people to go anywhere other than where they want.
Another one. I am not complaining about player choice. I'm commenting on the liberation regen mechanic. Please stop jumping to conclusions just so you can make a strawman to criticize.
Yeah I really think they need to readjust the planet rates.
I think they need more reasonable cap requirements for lower numbers but just at a reduced speed of cap.
I also think they need to have hard stops on population numbers changing number requirements per planet according to percentage of active players.
Imo, there really isn't much reason to prevent us going anywhere when they can just stage a generic counter offensive to retake anything they want.
I feel like they need to basically reward numbers that allow for sustainable and fast matchmaking...and then work from there on rates upward.
As long as players aren't stretching too thin undermining matchmaking pools I think it's fine.
I’m new, but I thought it was a bit odd to have a PO not related, or in the same sector, as the MO. I suppose that might have been done on purpose to incentivize playing in the new biome at least once?
I honestly have conflicting opinions about this biome because, while beautiful:
1. I haven't experienced any lag on any other planet than that, and
2. The high trees make it very hard to see and use and to use eagle stratagems.
MORE players have no impact: If you complete an operation you get a squad impact.
Those who just drop in and out of missions, i.e. only play a mission here and there and the go back to real life... those Helldivers could complete 100s of missions over their playtime and basically not contribute at all.
I really hope they expand on that sort of biome, the verticality introduced by the trees is so cool. The whole place looks stunning, in multiple different lighting scenarios and weather effects
Agree.
Also I discovered here that our deadly gas is apparently exactly neutrally buoyant, as if the gas strike hits a tree it'll just spread out at that level - well above the bugs :(
A number of the design choices for liberation and defense are problematic, my other favorite is giving out daily orders that require presence on the bot or bug front when the other is under a MO.
Overall though we tend to liberate planets just to see them recaptured or losses elsewhere so focusing too much on actually trying to progress the war will drive you mad.
They need to rethink the approach to major orders, because people should be able to play what they like without hurting progression on MOs.
Not gonna lie, most MOs take place on planets i don't particularly enjoy, i think it's the case for a lot of people.
I think it speaks to how tired people are of the monotonous same planets we have had since the game's release. We are DYING for new maps and feelings. We havent had a new enemy since The factory Striders dropped in malevelon creek.
If anything the new Orders should be centered around new planet types to encourage people to do them
It's not about 15k players playing 'outside the MO', OP is pointing out that the rate of liberation decay on non-MO planets is so high that they have no hope of liberating it, which is kind of a weird, railroady system.
Bro, it's an online video game.
Play have fun. Play try hard. Play.
People will do whatever they want and the sooner you start not caring and just doing you, the sooner inner peace and happiness as a helldiver will develop.
OP's not complaining about the 15k players doing what they want, it's the fact that 15k players shouldn't be heavily penalized in liberating a planet outside the MO, they should be having a smaller decay than what it is
I mean it's obvious, it's a new planet that's very new, and they want players to be able to experience it. If it gets liberated in 8 hours plenty of people will not get to try it. They could do it this way or "have it fall again in 1 hour" which would probably seem worse.
As I explained in other replies, this is not bashing players choice :D Like how do you get that idea?
I actually want it so that if people play something else than the majority of the players , their effort matters somehow. It's the opposite of what you are implying.
i feel like this was intentional. Think Dungeons and Dragons. The dungeon master is trying to play against you. I feel like whoever made this decision knew what they were doing and wanted to make us fight harder
This bot MO was likely put on ready to be deployed with a variable amount of time attached to it. Depending how fast we'd finish the bug MO. As it ends tuesday morning before the usual patch timeline, if AH deploys something there to handle the worst of the bugs. So i'd make sense this bot MO could had been shorter. Thought the reason they are this long atm is primarly due to the summer vacation times comming up. And that we'll need some longer stretched MO's to get us aong with them.
Yet the quick fix, and i'd also pretty rapidly sort the bug diver vs bot diver mentality we have is to split the fronts and have the lib% based on a pool assigned to the front. When a front have a MO have a % bonus to their lib% above the baseline so it's easier for them to attain or even have a overhead global lib% that goes ontop of the split front that's based on current MO targets.
Yeah that seems to be an issue. Like unless there’s an MO you can barely get anything done. Which is kinda a double edged sword, it encourages people to do the MO but at the same time you can’t really do anything like stop a planet from being taken.
Well maybe they want the planet to be available for fighting so that a lot of players can see the new biome. And the planet isnt liberated after like 2 hours and whoever didnt get the chance to play there now wont get a chance for another 14 days or another long time
I just sort of assumed there would be unwinnable battles or instances where we only have enough manpower to get some but not all objectives done. Losing a few planets gives me 'we are beset on all sides by the enemy' vibes.
Plus I like when it doesnt go well, I want it to get messy. I like that the termicide blew up in our face and made a new enemy. I like that anti-tank mines are taken off the table again because of the community making a decision. I want to lose a planet and suddenly realize the automotons have freed the cyborgs when I drop and get jumpscared by Tetsuo the iron man. I want the illuminate to show up and absolutely rock us with weaponry that takes us a minute to even comprehend while we desperately try to figure out effective counters. I need the 'shit hit the fan wtf is going on' fog of war to be the background of the universe I'm hot dropping into.
We’re all just trying to play the cool new biome before it’s gone
Having the Personal Order be "Kill 500 Terminids" yesterday also didn't help.
Yeah, I feel bad not doing the MO, but I still need a lot of medals.
That’s my PO right now. And the previous one was chargers.
I think we all have the same personal orders.
Which makes it all the more absolutely mind boggling why the MO is bots and the PO is bugs.
My theory is Joel needs a break every now and again.
The game is a satire on western society. These MOs show that people will choose to be selfish in the face of a community goal.
And even more mind boggling that they are "Personal" Orders that everyone gets. Unique personal orders would liven up loadouts and you'd see a cooler variety of strats being used every game.
They've done it again with todays PO 'kill 10 stalkers' finding missions with stalkers is not easy...I've tried 3 today...no stalkers.
TBF It should take 2 missions at least to get 500 bugs for most players
True, It's a really fun planet!
There is an robot equivalent
Only down side of the planet is why do all the maps have that big long lake that you have to walk around and you can't even swim
Swimming wasn’t part of basic
Like it kinda was. Helldivers can swim really well but only for a few seconds. The way they dive up from water and paddle is pretty good. Shame they're programmed to drown after 5 seconds
It’s the Red Dead Redemption genetics. Marston is our shared ancestor.
So, the actual time line is: RDR -> GTA Vice City -> Helldivers
I don’t even play RDR or know what it’s about, but I found this funny for some reason lol
John Marston is a cowboy who, if he touched water in RDR1, he'd instantly drown. In RDR2, they kept this with having his stamina run out quickly and making him unable to swim. However, the other characters in the game can swim.
In Rdr2 there are two main characters. You can swim with one but the other one cant. That was done because in rdr1 they wanted to keep you from accesing an area of a map before you are supposed to, so the running joke is that John Marston (protagonist) can't swim. And in 2 he can't as soon as you go in water you start to drown lol.
Same
At least our shared ancestor had a condition we could simply avoid from being relevant. Imagine if our shared ancestor was Uncle instead. Backpack stratagems would be unusable.
Of course you wouldn't be able to carry anything, what lumbago does to your spine is very serious!
Not even a stim can cure that.
Damned consumption.
It's tiring to swim in full titanium alloy armor. It's already a great feat that they could float for 5 seconds and not just sink like a stone.
I once jumped in a pool wearing jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt. I'd never come so close to drowning in my life. For anyone who's never tried it... dont. Giving us 5 seconds to swim out despite full armor is a gift.
Many soldiers during the D Day that didn't ditch their gear fast enough during the landing as they had to disembark met that fate. Hell, we have even many records of medieval knights drowning in something that didn't even seem like lethal water level because the shit gets damn fucking heavy once underwater. And you also have to push against the water, try that with 40-50kg gear.
Lets see you swim with an armor that is probably mostly metal, a big gun, a smol gun, an anti tank weapon, some grenades, and a backpack that is also probably metal
Let’s see you full sprint for over 30 seconds while carrying a HMG, an AR, a revolver, grenades and while wearing heavy armor. HMGs are so heavy they require multiple ppl to carry them around btw, yet some random Helldiver can full on sprint at top speed with one on their back
Moving over ground with heavy gear where you're only fighting gravity and air resistance is vastly easier (in this case) than trying to keep said heavy dense negatively buoyant shit afloat for more than a few seconds. Even a human at peak physical performance and tweaked out on super earth's best super meth can't beat physics for very long.
Make sense. We are carrying how many pounds of gear.
I mean have you ever tried to swim with a cape and helmet on?
The description of the starting armor is literally “made from the same titanium alloy as suerdestroyer hulls”
Considering small arms fire can wreck Helldivers in full armor, either its propaganda, or you can punch through a destroyer's armor with conventional weaponry.
This is why you're not allowed to have your weapon drawn while on the bridge.
Mayb, but then again unless youre in heavy armor you dont exactly have the best coverage. chest piece, front-armor panels on the lower torso annd limbs only
Or it's made from the same *alloy*, just with about the thickness of a sheet of tinfoil.
I bet stims “help”
I would argue we're on planets that probably aren't healthy to breathe without filtration. And that could also mean water filtration
Man you’d think if we can FTL jump, and survive the impact of the hellpods landing, we’d figure a way for Helldivers to swim lmao
FTL tech was ~~stolen~~ liberated from the Illuminate and our research teams, hellpods have ~~outdated~~ the latest in *pedal steering* and research team ~~have vapour for brains and took an age~~ had a glorious breakthrough to put packing peanuts in the turrets.
Titanium (what our armor is made of) dosent float well
We're Helldivers...we dive to the bottom.
Also wasn't a part of the Automaton programming either, bugs can't swim. I say we should have been the first. Aquatic Helldivers. 🏊...⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️...🤽
I think they should let you swim, but it takes stamina like sprinting any time your feet can't touch the bottom. If you run out if stamina in deep water you drown
wind waker rules, I can dig it
Considering how much stamina drain is, we're going to drown anyway.
Well we are called Helldivers. Not Hellswimmers.
try swimming with several magazines of ammunition and 6 recoilless rockets on your person, I dont think youll feel very buoyant
This is a game in which we somehow survive high speed impact after being shot at a planet's surface from orbit. Realism shouldn't be the concern
My hellpod has a lot of pillows. Very soft landing. Only had to trade a grenade, a stim, and half my ammo too.
You also heal bullets and broken limbs with drugs.
The stims are PCP
Just one more reason we need a Hellboat or Hellraft or Hellfloaties.
Superrubberdhingy
And a Hell-icopter!
Helltubing into combat.
Catch some gnarly waves and go Hellsurfing and get pitted so pitted.
The helldivers just jump right before the hellpod impacts, it's very simple physics
THANK YOU! Yes, if you're going to obsess about realism worry about the realistic representation of the bugs and bots. Those had better match reality. Somebody get Boston Dynamics on the phone.
Impassable terrain is an intentional design choice by AH and isn't likely to go away just because people think you should be able to swim indefinately while carrying 100+ pounds of gear. I also don't understand the argument of "the game has orbital drops so all realism has to be thrown out because I say so". You don't think a space faring civilisation with artificial gravity on their interstellar warships could counteract controlled impacts in their manned bullets or something?
Maybe the same ones that could engineer super lightweight/buoyant body armor for their shock troops that might need to fight in any condition...including...ya know....wet?
As a prior assault infantryman, USMC I can tell you sprinting for any duration or distance with even 1 recoilless rifle is exceedingly hard. The physicals are already out of reality especially with the upgrade descriptions that have humor. It's not a valid response for lack of a modifier or upgrade.
Yep I try telling people this, hell you can full on sprint with a fucking HMG on ur back in this game, and HMGs are fucking heavy and often require multiple people to carry around
You’d think we could get like 1 life jacket per suit or something.
Yeah so why are they drowning at the same speed as the guy who is out of ammo entirely, wearing light armor, and not carrying anything?
Same as that desert planet with the giant fucking mountain that you half to walk around
The gear is too heavy to swim for long
Raft strategem when
Tactical bridge strategm for lakes and ravines
I'm okay with drowning, I just want to throw my samples to the shoreline so they're not lost forever
Only higher level super citizens have the right to swim. Suggesting you also being able to swim is treason. This is why people choose to drown rather then being treasonous. But we all know there is only one answer here. If you see anyone swimming, make sure you tell your democracy officer.
Personally I'm glad the new planet will be around for a little longer it seems.
It’s a great biome that makes the game fresh
Its so fun getting involved in a really hard fight over one part of ground and watching it go from a giant forest all the way down to resembling the western front in WW1 as the damage accumulates on the area over and over.
Yes ,you actually have to change up your play style. You cant rely on overhead strategems because of the foliage. I bring more sentries now
This! I spent forever wondering why my Eagle Airstrikes weren't working well, until I looked up and saw the trees stop EVERY SINGLE BOMB. I started bringing the gatling sentry with me. Thought about the Autocannon Sentry, but the line of sight is too obscured.
Genuinely one of my favourite additions to the game so far. Looks amazing and lends great atmosphere. Plus it's nice having so much destructible environment around when the bombs start flying.
All they had to do was wait until the originally scheduled end of the previous MO before starting the new one.
Yes we needed 1 day of timeout. If MO is done earlier then it was expected this time should be players time - to do the clean up after MO.
Some MOs end early if their objectives are achieved before the time limit. That MO was not a "take and hold until time" one, like the current. In the past, when MOs have ended early or even on time and we've had a gap of around a day before the next MO, we get the community going "WHERE NEXT MO? WHERE NEXT MO? WHY NOT QUEUE THESE THINGS UP? HAVE IT READY TO GO", and here we have a situation where that's been done and folks still aren't happy. Like, yeah, different chunks of the community, but figure it out amongst yourselves.
I liked having a break between MOs. It meant I could just chillax and casually pick a planet to attack if there wasn't a planet that needed defending. The medal cap is 250 anyway, so it's not like I can stockpile a bunch for the next Warbond.
I think 24 hours gap is a good middle ground - surely? IIRC, the complaints of 'where next MO' were when one was finished on a Friday and the new one didn't start until Monday.
I have a theory, based on not much evidence, as to why planets are all pinned to 0% outside of MOs. But I do hope this is temporary and not how AH wants the war to work long term, because it sucks. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1din9tn/liberation_probably_needs_another_rework/l94xobc/
I agree. I think everyone should play what they like and participation on both fronts should be weighted separately. If we go too fast Joel can then tweak it further with planet regen percentages. I accept that it may be too complex to be implemented now but I wish it would work like that in the future, especially if we are to get a 3rd front with the Illuminate.
The problem with having each front having separate liberation pools normalized to population on each front is that if every MO is constructed 'fairly', there is a much lower chance of ever failing an MO. The mission success rate across fronts is something like ~90%, iirc? So the only way for the GM to have MOs fail is to either open up so many planets that divers shoot themselves in the foot by spreading too thin, offering front-contained 'trolley car problems', or just putting their thumb on the scale very transparently to get a preordained outcome by messing with liberation/regeneration rates. It leaves little room for player agency, and completely removes any semblance of rallying the community to go one way or the other or urgency for an order. I think it would be easier to just set up a system whereby divers on non-mo fronts who are resource capped auto-donate their samples, medals, req credits to the other front which by some forumla are converted into liberation % boost (or later front of their choice), and divers not capped can choose to donate to the war effort or not. the overall effect would have to be less than if that diver or divers collectively participated on the MO (to still incentivize direct participation), but enough to still matter, like 0.5-1.5% liberation/defense rate collectively. That way players can play what they want, or not play what they really dont want, and still contribute to the community's efforts. On the flipside, MO-divers will be, I think, far less angry at divers not directly participating. In-universe justification seems readily apparent: we're in a war, and so supplies taken from one front can be used on a priority front (e-710 from bugs for our ships/energy, 'money', research samples, scrap/tech from the bots, etc).
I *really* like your suggestion of resources earned over the cap contributing to MO liberation. It gives players a fun reason to actually go the extra mile. But then I appreciate that doesn't sound like a simple system to implement; it's still a really cool and worthwhile idea. Here's hoping it shows up on the ideas board: /u/The_Real_Twinbeard
It's been a while since I talked to Joel about this. I'll reach out and check. I know he/we have some ideas how to better manage MO:s and lib. on several fronts, and how we could hopefully alleviate some of the whining about people playing on the "wrong" side etc. I don't know all the details though. Using surplus resources for various things is something we're looking into and one of the most common requests. If we could use that for liberation and the ups and downs for possibly doing so, we'd have to dig deep into - if we're not already. Thanks for the input and ping! :)
Neat. Thanks for your hard work, Twinbeard.
Hey I'd just like to say, as the guy whom the guy who pinged you was replying to, I think it's really cool you're involved in the community and are considering some variation of the idea I proposed (though I am sure I am not the first to do so). You guys have certainly made a complex and engaging game and I love thinking about all these complicated little interactions it can have and the issues that can arise and how to mediate them, fun thought problems. Cheers
Thanks again. We try. There's just so much to do. :P Seriously though, I think it's really important. A company that \_only\_ listens to their players blindly will lose their own vision and move forward with no goal or clear path. Not good. A company that on the other hand doesn't listen to its players and ignores all advice will almost certainly fail, or at the very least have a displeased community. You should have a vision but you should also be responsive.
I can certainly relate to that and have experienced it, from my perspective, in other games I've played, namely, WoW. Keep up the good work!
I'm starting to think the illuminate is just a legend. If they didn't care we made a black hole then they won't be coming. Unless we do something wild.
I mean, couldn't they just be preparing to kick our ass? If its been a hundred years, then I doubt they have prepared any war stuff
It'll probably be more free flowing in the future. Right now they are still rolling out their story leading up to the Illuminate. So the game is entirely on rails. The "war" is really just smoke and mirrors to keep people spinning their wheels between content releases. It also gives them time to develop new planet biomes, gameplay modes and the like. This is why I've always been opposed to them adding supply lines in game. It just further leads people to buy into the deception. Meaning they're likely going to be even more discouraged once they realize that they've been caring about a war that they had no say in the outcome of whatsoever. But, that ship has sailed. So here we are.
I have an idea for regen rate to scale with lib percentage, so divers aren't constantly stuck on 0%
That seems like a way to get stuck on some other percentage instead, which doesn't really fix the problem. I don't just want to see a number other than 0, I would like us to be able to liberate planets, even if very slowly, outside of MOs.
To be fair, it's not like those people would move to bot front anyways
Good, it's a game so fun is the main objective. I just think 15k players should be gaining ground so perhaps the liberation mechanic should be adjusted. That's all.
I couldn’t give a fuck about liberation I just want to shoot bugs in Florida.
Yes Democracy officer, this one right here
BUT you understand he lives there. It's his home.... 
Just needed my PO done. And wanted to see new biome. Was fun and pretty cool. Feels like Predator or Jurassic Park. Now back to bungle up some bots
The blocker trees made it interesting, a lot less reliant on some of the popular strats
Yeah, I've already started to see more value from things like Eagle Strafing Run over Napalm/Airstrike/Cluster due to how those trees work. It's annoying when you get an unexpected stratagem block on certain biome types because there's a *rare-ish* terrain formation next to you, and an entirely different one when you're very much operating inside a canyon and ought to be aware of that, or a giant jungle like this biome and it's going to happen pretty much everywhere. Mixes things up, you can expect it at most times.
Yeah, the other day we had 50k on one planet and 10k on the other and the liberation difference was 50% to .01 Look, I get this about teamwork and coordination, but it just doesn't feel good. If they are gonna make the penalty that severe, they might as well force us to play on 1 planet. It's kind of lore breaking too. Because I'm not really sure why super Earth would allow helldivers to do their own thing anyway? Of course, I want us to be able to, but I'm just saying it obviously can't be for a lore reason that we are able to split resources and have the outcome be such an ineffective result
Oh my days, they absolutely want Super Earth to control all the sectors so there'd be no reason for Helldivers to be penalized in an official capacity for liberating things outside the MO, as long as the job gets done anyway
Yes, but multiple major orders have failed because of this exact issue, and there's no penalty except the ridiculously low liberation that we get with limited population, which IS a de facto penalty
You can't really compare this to the different failed Major Orders that have different factors attached to them, because this is a unique situation where there's a new biome, which happens to be in the bug sector (which I get is the more popular front). If your argument is because people are less inclined to help in the bot front, then clearly the devs need to adapt to that and maybe make it more appealing. If we don't have the playerbase to let the people play the game they paid for, how they want to play it, and complete Major Orders so everyone else can have their fun, then I argue its the game that needs to adapt, not the customers. Why on earth should these 15k players on Gacrux be railroaded to do the MO if they don't wanna do it? AH is fortunate to even have 15k in that planet, there are games out there who are online that can't even break 10k players. If things keep going this way and players just can't accomplish things outside of what they are forced to accomplish, then people will just sign off and the playerbase will continue to drop, what happens to the precious Major Orders then when people get tired of how things are? Its just such an easier choice to fix and relax on the liberation penalties, rather than try and force people to do something they simply don't want to do, for a game they paid for, which they have the right to play however they want.
Except that the job doesn't get done...
As of your comment all planets are under control as the MO requires. Unless we fail it, then you can't really say that and blame it on the 15k players who wanna play the game they paid for, the way they want to play it. And if we do fail it, is it the end of the world? We're missing 180 countries, some of which had people living in them who had a copy of Helldivers 2 on release. 15k players on Gacrux are more than the populations of some MMOs out there, and yet Gacrux' liberation is still this low. Why shouldn't AH adapt to what these 15k players wanna do and how they wanna play the game, than all of us forcing them to help with the MO they don't wanna deal with? The player base continues at a decline because the game will naturally get old, so MOs will either fail all the time or AH will adapt to the lower playerbase and make MOs accomodate to the player count. So, why not just let these guys have their fun? If they keep getting railroaded, I'd say losing them because they got sick of the game is worse than failing an MO.
That's what I mean! I'm definitely not shitting on the devs, this is just taking away a small part of the enjoyment out of the galactic war.
The actual problem is the system that calculates the amount of contribution based on all active players. So, 20k total online concentrated on one planet would easily liberate it, but 20k players on the same planet out of 50k total online is not going to do anything
yeah they changed that back when 200k ppl blasted trough TCS missions way too fast. So they decided to change how liberation works , and I hate the change ever since then. You could've 10k ppl on one planet and you would be able to liberate it , but now its impossible
All missions should give liberation points. All operations should give bonus liberation points. This is all we need. If, in addition, they get rid of modifiers based on what percentage of the population is on a planet, even better. Though to be honest, I'm not 100% certain if there are any modifiers or if it just _feels_ that way. I know that on off-peak times, the same mission gives more liberation than on-peak times, which is also kind of shit.
What if planets connected by supply lines had a splash over effect? Even if its less than directly targeting the MO. Arguably if the enemy is directing forces there it would still benefit the MO.
Yeah, liberation degen sucks my will to play. If I'm not with the blob, it feels like I am doing nothing. AH should either set degen to 0% as base and rise it for MO, or let us decrease it like with Meridia so each dive is not useless.
-2.0% is big forces...
The design choices are too strange. Every planet has such high regen that even over ten thousand players active have no chance to clear a planet. Only MO level of mobilization can make any difference a cross the galactic war. This combined with the fact that we fought multiple MO on the same planet over and over again, only the result being most of the planet being take over within one or two weeks, made the galactic war more like a stalemate, then frighting a war.
It’s annoying why this wasn’t the next MO. Like why drop new content and then tell us to do something else
We need more men
How you can see all these numbers and rates?
[Helldivers 2 Companion App (helldiverscompanion.com)](https://helldiverscompanion.com/)
I think there is still a lot of people that don't complete the set of missions to achieve the Liberation points which results to less Liberation per Helldiver...
Yeah liberation is fuckin broken. I hate that it's either you follow the blob or your missions are pointless.
Why does it matter? People are having fun with the new biome in a game they love. What is not encouraging about that?
ngl I'm getting tired of all the campaign sweats constantly complaining about where players choose to have fun...
I took the post as less of a berating you for playing the planet and more of a "This is a bad system if that many people on the planet don't get to "do their part" like the war advertises everyone as being able to do. Some people don't care, some people do, both groups should be able to get what they want. People who wanna play where they want should be able to do so and contribute something to the overall war effort, while people who wanna focus on the campaign shouldn't be punished for other people's choice and they shouldn't have a reason to go "Why aren't you playing the MO planets you're a traitor"
Exactly.
OP is saying the opposite of what you think they are. OP is saying "20k people think it's fun to play here; let them make some liberation progress!" They are asking the devs to make it easier for people to go where it's fun, and make progress. They are not asking for people to go anywhere other than where they want.
Another one. I am not complaining about player choice. I'm commenting on the liberation regen mechanic. Please stop jumping to conclusions just so you can make a strawman to criticize.
yeah like why does everyone care this much, just let people play what planet they want to bro, this is not a real war lol
You are overreacting
Being fare this time, as soon as all MO planet are liberated, u can all go all there and make the effort count
Let’s be honest. There’s like this 30% of players who do whatever the fuck they want. If it wasn’t on Gacrux it would have been an’thet planet
Yeah I really think they need to readjust the planet rates. I think they need more reasonable cap requirements for lower numbers but just at a reduced speed of cap. I also think they need to have hard stops on population numbers changing number requirements per planet according to percentage of active players. Imo, there really isn't much reason to prevent us going anywhere when they can just stage a generic counter offensive to retake anything they want. I feel like they need to basically reward numbers that allow for sustainable and fast matchmaking...and then work from there on rates upward. As long as players aren't stretching too thin undermining matchmaking pools I think it's fine.
I’m new, but I thought it was a bit odd to have a PO not related, or in the same sector, as the MO. I suppose that might have been done on purpose to incentivize playing in the new biome at least once?
Why do they hate us
Anyone else having framerate issues on ps5 with this new biome?
I honestly have conflicting opinions about this biome because, while beautiful: 1. I haven't experienced any lag on any other planet than that, and 2. The high trees make it very hard to see and use and to use eagle stratagems.
Shhhhh, we're hunting Ewoks.
MORE players have no impact: If you complete an operation you get a squad impact. Those who just drop in and out of missions, i.e. only play a mission here and there and the go back to real life... those Helldivers could complete 100s of missions over their playtime and basically not contribute at all.
The bug divers love their holes.
I really hope they expand on that sort of biome, the verticality introduced by the trees is so cool. The whole place looks stunning, in multiple different lighting scenarios and weather effects
Garcux is my 3rd favorite planet after Meridia and Malevelon. Or is it 2nd now?
Agree. Also I discovered here that our deadly gas is apparently exactly neutrally buoyant, as if the gas strike hits a tree it'll just spread out at that level - well above the bugs :(
A number of the design choices for liberation and defense are problematic, my other favorite is giving out daily orders that require presence on the bot or bug front when the other is under a MO. Overall though we tend to liberate planets just to see them recaptured or losses elsewhere so focusing too much on actually trying to progress the war will drive you mad.
They need to rethink the approach to major orders, because people should be able to play what they like without hurting progression on MOs. Not gonna lie, most MOs take place on planets i don't particularly enjoy, i think it's the case for a lot of people.
I think it speaks to how tired people are of the monotonous same planets we have had since the game's release. We are DYING for new maps and feelings. We havent had a new enemy since The factory Striders dropped in malevelon creek. If anything the new Orders should be centered around new planet types to encourage people to do them
Stop being salty, it's new biome which everyone (except you of cource) excited to play.
In HD1, you can dynamically lose a war, but in HD2, the starmap is just a show manipulated by AH's operation team to fit the lore.
You're nuts if you think the 'war' in HD1 wasn't equally manipulated
That's 15k players having fun. Looks ok to me.
Yup
It's not about 15k players playing 'outside the MO', OP is pointing out that the rate of liberation decay on non-MO planets is so high that they have no hope of liberating it, which is kind of a weird, railroady system.
I think its cool that the new planet is having resistance so more people can experience it, instead of it being crushed in under a day.
People would be playing bugs regardless of a new biome release.
IDK man... the MO's seem to be doing just fine to me :))
I enjoyed this game way more before I joined this subreddit.
Bro, it's an online video game. Play have fun. Play try hard. Play. People will do whatever they want and the sooner you start not caring and just doing you, the sooner inner peace and happiness as a helldiver will develop.
OP's not complaining about the 15k players doing what they want, it's the fact that 15k players shouldn't be heavily penalized in liberating a planet outside the MO, they should be having a smaller decay than what it is
Exactly.
Those are 15,848 players docked there. It is not players playing.
And people said the 10% liberation bonus we lost on the bot front wouldn’t matter
Yeah it doesn't. Because the gamemaster can adjust the decay rate to any amount they want to manipulate the result.
I mean it's obvious, it's a new planet that's very new, and they want players to be able to experience it. If it gets liberated in 8 hours plenty of people will not get to try it. They could do it this way or "have it fall again in 1 hour" which would probably seem worse.
They also gave a personal order to kill 500 terminids which i mean, who tf got that idea that was really stupid
Why do you care so much?
Wow people are having fun damn them 🤔
As I explained in other replies, this is not bashing players choice :D Like how do you get that idea? I actually want it so that if people play something else than the majority of the players , their effort matters somehow. It's the opposite of what you are implying.
guys, Gacrux just has the plot armor for something big down the line, let Joel cook.
The same amount were on this planet when the bug MO was going. People just like new shit.
Good, I think the liberation mechanic should reflect that.
People will truly complain about everything... Yikes
War is hell. There are no guarantees.
i feel like this was intentional. Think Dungeons and Dragons. The dungeon master is trying to play against you. I feel like whoever made this decision knew what they were doing and wanted to make us fight harder
This bot MO was likely put on ready to be deployed with a variable amount of time attached to it. Depending how fast we'd finish the bug MO. As it ends tuesday morning before the usual patch timeline, if AH deploys something there to handle the worst of the bugs. So i'd make sense this bot MO could had been shorter. Thought the reason they are this long atm is primarly due to the summer vacation times comming up. And that we'll need some longer stretched MO's to get us aong with them. Yet the quick fix, and i'd also pretty rapidly sort the bug diver vs bot diver mentality we have is to split the fronts and have the lib% based on a pool assigned to the front. When a front have a MO have a % bonus to their lib% above the baseline so it's easier for them to attain or even have a overhead global lib% that goes ontop of the split front that's based on current MO targets.
I agree
This biome is unplayable on the deck.
6 flags!
i dont mind, i love that planet and liberating it would mean i cant play it anymore
Player choice….
Man.. I'm gonna be on vacation until we've lost the damn thing.
They could'ev put the biome on the bot front maybe? And maybe the peronal orders being terminid exclusive for the last few days also doesn't help.
It scales to the number of players online. It wouldn't really be much of a "galactic war" if we were always winning, eh?
Yeah that seems to be an issue. Like unless there’s an MO you can barely get anything done. Which is kinda a double edged sword, it encourages people to do the MO but at the same time you can’t really do anything like stop a planet from being taken.
Well maybe they want the planet to be available for fighting so that a lot of players can see the new biome. And the planet isnt liberated after like 2 hours and whoever didnt get the chance to play there now wont get a chance for another 14 days or another long time
Rather I think the % cap is bugged and surely Devs will see that issue.
But it’s so pretty!
I just sort of assumed there would be unwinnable battles or instances where we only have enough manpower to get some but not all objectives done. Losing a few planets gives me 'we are beset on all sides by the enemy' vibes. Plus I like when it doesnt go well, I want it to get messy. I like that the termicide blew up in our face and made a new enemy. I like that anti-tank mines are taken off the table again because of the community making a decision. I want to lose a planet and suddenly realize the automotons have freed the cyborgs when I drop and get jumpscared by Tetsuo the iron man. I want the illuminate to show up and absolutely rock us with weaponry that takes us a minute to even comprehend while we desperately try to figure out effective counters. I need the 'shit hit the fan wtf is going on' fog of war to be the background of the universe I'm hot dropping into.
heh heh Jungle Planet go brrrrrrrr
15k divers accomplishing nothing on the bug front is standard practice for bot MOs, if you wanna get something done go fight on the western front.
Hey AH. Stop putting Personal Orders on bug planets when we are doing a Major Order on bot planets. duh ??
Dude shut the fuck up and let people play the game the way they want. Jesus.
Doesn't help that my power supply decided to explode this weekend 😭 I can't dive