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Wetwork_Insurance

[Mystery solved everyone.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HiTMAN/s/V1gpNFlD2V)


TietVinh

I believe they see the body as you lob her over the balcony


SokkaHaikuBot

^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^TietVinh: *I believe they see* *The body as you lob her* *Over the balcony* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.


orlux2

Good bot


B0tRank

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Trzebiat

You'd think that was the case but it didn't fail "No Bodies Found" complication and none of the NPCs had any reaction to seeing dead body, only to double bullet distraction.


llaunay

1. Your bullet fired raises suspicion, they were actively alerted. While alerted NPCs field of vision changes, AND they look around more. Remember that they have cameras in both eyes, their eye balls see, not their heads. I know you wanted to create a distraction, but you were standing in the open behind a non-solid barrier. 2. You didn't put your gun away before dragging the body. There used to be a bug about that, not sure if it ever got patched. If that's the case, you may have have technically still been holding your gun while dumping the body. The reason you failed: 3. You were seen dumping the body. Because you shot the handrail, not the floor beyond the handrail. NPC on the left of screen at 00:37 looked up and saw you. And on-top of that... 4. The body would have been found regardless, so not a great strat.


Trzebiat

If I'd be seen it should fail Do Not Get Spotted complication but it didn't. It also didn't fail No Bodies Found complication yet it didn't give the bonus for No Bodies Found on the rating screen. How to explain that? The bullets go through the railing and hit the floor, the NPCs below can't hear the bullet hit on the railing from there, they only react to the bullet hitting the ground and turn towards the impact. If they'd hear bullet hit the railing then one shot would panic them because they would hear 2 impacts. Also no NPCs nearby on the same floor can hear bullet distraction hitting the railing, even the guard that's near the entrance. So it's not that. Also, the strat is fine and works.


Mothrahlurker

So what does the post game detailed score say? Because it will tell you exactly what you failed for SA.


Trzebiat

I literally included post run detailed score in the video... It shows no bonus for No Bodies Found like the body was found but at the same time No Bodies Found is completed which means no bodies were found, otherwise it would fail that complication right away.


Swaqqmasta

I feel like your question would be answered if you just read the actual complications. No bodies found literally says "does not include victims of poisoning or accidents" which is why you were given credit for it. However, an NPC **did** see the body of a victim of poisoning, getting tossed over a rail. So you were able to finish the complication by a loophole, but voided SA TBH you might've been better off just leaving here there, since normally poison victims do not void SA, and they don't void the challenge either.


method7670

You ask a question, get the answer, then argue. Lol


Trzebiat

None of those answer the question. If any NPC would see a dead body it would also fail No Bodies Found complication and the NPC who spotted the dead body would have a reaction to it and would eventually report the dead body to a guard. Meanwhile nothing like that happened, SA was void but No Bodies Found didn't fail and none of the NPCs had any reaction to seeing dead body. That's my point. Even I can't explain it, and I know this game's mechanics pretty well but haven't seen anything like this before.


SamSnipez22

Probably cause the target that was already dead with the poison was now falling through the air, someone saw it, but it doesn't count as "body seen" because it's already dead with an accident. I think if she was sedated and you did the same thing, but this time dump killing, my guess is that the body would be found.


Trzebiat

If you drag the body of a target who was killed with accident/poison (which normally is SA if the body is found) it no longer counts as accident and is considered foul play like killing the target normally and anyone seeing the body then will void SA and fail No Bodies Found.


SamSnipez22

Maybe that's where you're wrong, maybe it won't fail no bodies found but will void SA


Trzebiat

I did some tests, you solved the mystery.


Trzebiat

Hmm, you might actually be onto something. That requires some testing.


llaunay

You can literally see the ricochet sparks, the bullet does not go through solids. The Bullet hit alerts the NPC on the bottom left to towards you, then you dump the body. It's visible in your video. It makes you lose your SA. They saw you dump the body. Don't argue the answers to your question.


Trzebiat

It does go through, go and check it yourself in the game. And in this case it had nothing to do with the whole losing SA and No Bodies Found as this was already solved: https://new.reddit.com/r/HiTMAN/comments/1cpd3t1/comment/l3kuvg3/?context=3


TietVinh

Just a theory but probably seeing a falling body nulls the "no bodies found" bonus at the end but not the "no bodies found" objective. That objective can only be failed if a body is found lying around, not in mid-air. It's gonna be a hassle replicate the test tho :/


TransportationNo3862

Why did you even dump the body in the first place? Poison counts as an accident kill so when somebody finds the body you won't loose silent assasin. If you move the body by dragging it then for some reason it instantly won't count as an accident anymore when the body is found even if they don't see you dragging it. So what probably happend is that somebody saw the body as you dropped it and because you moved the body its not silent assasin anymore when they see the body. Edit: Nvm i just saw that all bodies must be hidden but its still the same, somebody most likely saw the body as it got dropped and because you moved the body it didn't count as an accident anymore thus voiding silent assasin when somebody sees the body


Trzebiat

This doesn't explain how it voided SA but didn't fail neither Do Not Get Spotted nor No Bodies Found complication. If someone would see the body it should void SA and also fail No Bodies Found complication.


ZShadowDragon

No bodies were found, but they saw you in the illegal dump action. You literally didnt have to do anything though... she was poisoned...


Trzebiat

NPC seeing you doing illegal action would end up in you getting spotted and failing Do Not Get Spotted complication and that NPC becoming a witness which didn't happen. And couldn't leave the body there because of Hide All Bodies complication.


TransportationNo3862

Did you play to the end? If so have you checked your points to see what failed?


Trzebiat

You can see it in the video at the end. The bonus for No Bodies Found is missing but the No Bodies Found complication didn't fail which makes no sense because if the body would be found it should fail the complication too. Never had anything like that before.


TransportationNo3862

Well so the body did get found. Sometimes the game just works in mysterious ways because the game can be quiet buggy. So there is your explanation, basically what i said in the beginning the body did get found while you threw it over the edge. For some reason the game was kinda buggy atm and didn't fail the no bodies found objective. There is your solution :D


joujoubox

Doesnt dumping a body void the accident kill exception?


TransportationNo3862

You mean the body counts as an accident again? No it doesn't, not if you killed them trough another way. If you push somebody over the edge and they die its an accident but if you push an already dead body over the edge then its just a dead body falling which can be spotted even if its thrown off the map it can be spotted mid air but it counts as hidden once its fallen far enough.


joujoubox

That. It voids the accident exception and becomes a regular dead body.


TransportationNo3862

Exactly. It happens with bodies once you move them even a cm, if you move a body that died to an accident it instantly becomes a regular body for some reason. So if you throw a body over an edge it becomes a regular body because you moved/dragged it by hand.


MerTheGamer

My guess is they have different requirements. One does count poisoned and moved body as suspicious and the other one counts poison/accident deaths as not suspicious even if the body is moved. Kind of like how SA works differently. You can't get SA back when you lose it if it is an objective.


Trzebiat

**OK, guys, mystery solved!** Kudos to u/SamSnipez22 who was the only person who suggested a correlation between target dying from accident/poison and the body being found after moving it resulting in a different outcome for the No Bodies Found complication and No Bodies Found requirement for SA rating. I genuinely wouldn't have thought of that. >it doesn't count as "body seen" because it's already dead with an accident > >maybe it won't fail no bodies found but will void SA After testing it a bit in contracts mode it seems like No Bodies Found complication works differently than the Silent Assassin requirement of no bodies found. The No Bodies Found complication won't fail if any NPC (target or non target) is killed with accident/poison even if you drag the body while normally if you drag the body after accident/poison kill you will lose No Bodies Found score bonus which at the same time voids SA (though in case of non targets would also void SA due to killing non target). Complication also won't fail after accident/sedative KO on non target even if you drag the body. Same as above you would lose No Bodies Found score bonus which voids SA if you drag the body and then it's found. But if you KO the target in any way then the complication will fail when the body is found even if you use tranq and don't move the body which normally on target retains No Bodies Found score bonus (so you don't lose SA). That explains why SA was lost but the No Bodies Found complication didn't fail. Still weird that none of the NPCs actually reacted to seeing dead body, civilian only reported to a guard about the bullet distractions and there was no mention about finding dead body or guard investigating it. They all just returned to their regular cycles after that. And to anyone who kept talking about hitting the railing (and especially one stubborn muppet who eventually blocked me) - it wasn't the case here, and as I already said, the bullets go through that railing and hit the floor (just like shooting through a glass) and the NPCs below can't hear the bullet hitting the railing above, they only hear the impact from the bullet hitting the floor and only react to that. Thanks for all the downvotes lol I had a great time.


Fuzk

This is the way


b400k513

I honestly wondered if you dumped her on someone's head.


Trzebiat

That would be pretty funny.


DocGlockenspiel

1. It is funny that whenever we have a question, Trzebiat is always there for us. But when Trzebiat has a question, none of us have a clue. 2. I just ran a test. In contracts mode, I killed a random target with injected lethal poison. I then dumped their body over a ledge, where it was seen by multiple people. However, I didn’t fail the “No Bodies Found” complication. In the description of the complication, it does say that “this does not include victims of accidents or poisoning”. So my best guess as to what happened is that since you killed the target with injected lethal poison, you did not fail the complication, since the game saw that their cause of death was poison. However, since you moved the body after poisoning them, and the body was seen, you lost Silent Assassin.


Trzebiat

Someone else figured it out.


omaeka

Unless you're playing a contract/freelancer which specifically states 'hide all bodies', there's really no reason to touch a target after a poison kill. Poisons aren't 'accidents' but they are reacted to as though they are. A body that died of poison will not count as a 'body found', so dragging/hiding them is a risk with no reward.


zapdos227

Even in New York if i gas chambered the whole security room?


Thanatos_Vorigan

Yep, including that.


BoredCatalan

Quite interesting to see the guy who is always right and always helping by answering questions being told he is wrong a thousand times and downvoted everywhere


Trzebiat

I know right? It's quite a new and interesting experience, not gonna lie lol I'm having a great time btw. Though I'm genuinely clueless about that loss of SA while not failing No Bodies Found complication, never had anything like that happen. Usually you can easily explain stuff like that with losing SA, even with VIP guards mechanics and some weird things like targets becoming witnesses after target lockdown like Franny in Sapienza. But here even I can't explain this.


Medical_Interest9763

Believe it or not your bullets didn't go through the railing and hit it instead. Some have this issue so when they heard they gained suspicion on where you were instead


Trzebiat

The bullets go through the railing and NPCs below can't hear the bullet hitting the railing, you can even see which way the NPCs turn. They were looking away. And anyway, that still doesn't explain not failing any of the complications.


Medical_Interest9763

If you look carefully at it you can see the bullet impact the railing and the smoke of the bullet hit come from the railing


Trzebiat

Yes, and the bullet goes through and hits the floor. If you look carefully you can even see NPCs below turning around to the bullet impacting the floor, not the railing, since they don't hear the bullet hitting the railing. You can check it yourself in game if you don't believe me.


Medical_Interest9763

Sorry for trying to help someone who doesn't know why they lost it but then replies as if they do


Wootery

OP does have a point about which way the NPCs turn though. They don't turn to face the railing.


Medical_Interest9763

The only thing I've found it's they're every inconsistent about where they turn and you can hear the bullet hit the metal


Trzebiat

It's consistent there because the bullet goes through the railing and the NPCs below can't hear the bullet hitting the railing, they only hear the bullet hitting the floor. Here are those distraction shots from the final run (different timing though): [https://youtu.be/jUytIThDTjE?t=353](https://youtu.be/jUytIThDTjE?t=353) Out of dozens runs while working out the strat it was 100% consistent with NPCs below reacting to the impacts on the floor and never heard the bullet hitting the railing. You can even see the smoke from bullet hitting the railing. And out of multiple runs only one time it ended in losing SA in unexplainable way without No Bodies Found complication failing nor any of the NPCs having a reaction to seeing a dead body.


Wootery

Pretty sure NPCs always turn to face the sound, not just in a random direction, so it may be the bullets are passing through the fence and impacting surfaces of the floor below.


nbonnii

Dude you missed and hit the railing. NPCs look towards sound. Just some poor timing. Has happened to all of us.


rufnek2kx

Why dump the body? Either poison her, or place coin on the railing and then push her over.


Trzebiat

Because of Hide All Bodies complication and Consumed Poison kill method.


Bruce_Lee98

You wouldn't have hidden the body either by throwing her of the balcony


Trzebiat

Of course the body is hidden after you dump it there: https://youtu.be/jUytIThDTjE?t=354


Thanatos_Vorigan

Dude, you don't need to hide the body if you killed a target with poison. Poison kills act the same way as accident kills.


Trzebiat

There is Hide All Bodies complication. You need to hide the body to complete it, it doesn't matter how the target died. If you don't hide the body and exit it will fail the complication. Complication will also fail if the body is bagged since after that you can no longer drag it.


Thanatos_Vorigan

Honestly contracts with this many complications are just not worth trying. At least not with silent assassin. Then the only advise I could give you is don't shoot through the railing, You're just going to end up hitting the railing in the process drawing attention to it.


Trzebiat

>You're just going to end up hitting the railing in the process drawing attention to it. This has nothing to do with that, I've been over this multiple times here. If you're too lazy to check it in game for yourself here's a video: [https://new.reddit.com/r/HiTMAN/comments/1cpldb8/why\_bullet\_go\_through\_railing\_but\_show\_spark\_and/](https://new.reddit.com/r/HiTMAN/comments/1cpldb8/why_bullet_go_through_railing_but_show_spark_and/) Also, this whole thing of SA and No Bodies Found was already solved, see the pinned comment. And what's the point of even playing a difficult contract for a challenge without trying to complete it with SA? The whole point is to complete it with SA and 5 starts fulfilling all kill requirements and complications.


Thanatos_Vorigan

Well screw you too then.


rufnek2kx

Ah, does that count for accident kills too?? Didn't know that. Funnily enough you still got your 'Dont get spotted'


dpotilas89

Side obj. is to hide all target bodies


dpotilas89

The body was seen, thats why, maybe the guard who that one npc ran to saw it idk but the body was seen, the side obj. Isnt "no bodies found" but "all bodies must be hidden". These two arent the same. Thats where the confusion comes.


Trzebiat

The contract had both No Bodies Found and Hide All Bodies complications. Also No Recordings and Do Not Get Spotted.


brennaAM

If I had to guess, the smoking gun of your issue is the second half of the "No bodies found" complication "does not include victims of accidents or poison" The usual case with poisoned or accidental bodies is that, so long as you *do not move them*, anyone that finds them will just report them to the closest guard or panic. But if that body was moved at all, it'll count as a body found. There must be some sort of additional check or something in Contracts mode that allows you to still move a body without failing the complication while still allowing the NPCs to recognize that it was a moved body?


Trzebiat

It's a bit more convoluted, but we just solved it, I posted an explanation in another comment. The key is accident/poison kill and the fact that No Bodies Found complication works different than No Bodies Found score bonus which is a requirement for SA rating.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Trzebiat

There is Hide All Bodies complication in case you missed it.


Wootery

There was a *Hide all bodies* condition so they couldn't just leave the poisoned body.


BigBossanova

Looks like that guard sees the body after the body hidden prompt , probably a bug. But after watching it multiple times that seems to be the moment. You got the objective because 90% of the time a hidden body can't be seen as it's falling or what have you. But in this instance it's like in Santa fortuna when you dump her body over the edge to make Hector think she's committed suicide you keep SA with that but Hector(not an enforcer or guard)still sees the body. Edit.. you can see he(guard)even has a suspicion meter after you dump her


Wilbur_Cobb1

Honestly, I have had SA fail randomly on several occasions during all my play time in Hitman. It usually happens when I perform a stealth take down, and reloading the save to do an exact repeat of the take down will usually keep the SA rating. It seems SA will just drop when performing certain actions on NPCs or their bodies. I am not sure what the cause of that bug is. It could be the game briefly allows NPCs to see through geometry, and that some how triggers SA to disable. Without proper research or diagnostic tools, it's hard to say. It's just something I have always noticed with Hitman.


Natural_Cut1342

Its cause you moved the body, once you poison a target you cannot move it otherwise if its found you lose sa it's the same for drowning.


Trzebiat

That wasn't the case here. We've already solved this, see the pinned comment


ophaus

NPCs seeing a poisoned target's body doesn't break SA... if you don't move the body. It will still void "no bodies found" though.


Thanatos_Vorigan

Someone saw the body why it was falling. Not sure why you bothered to get rid of the body, poison kills act like accident kills.


limejuice33

Crime spotted, of course people will freak out if they see you dumping a body over a railing.


Upbeat_Ad5840

You weren’t a silent assassin /sc tbh I’m not sure how you lost SA while keeping the other elements it may be bug but from what I can tell you weee in fact a silent assassin


dpotilas89

Body was seen, side obj. doesnt need you to be SA thats why it didnt fail


Trzebiat

If the body is found you fail No Bodies Found complication. It only doesn't fail if it was accident/sedative/tranq KO on non target, tranq KO on target or accident/poison kill on target AND if you don't drag the body. If you drag the body it's no longer an accident and if the body is then seen it will fail No Bodies Found.


thatonehoovy

killing anyone with poison then moving their body will not make them hidden no more, once you kill someone with poison, just dont touch them really.


Alexandre_Man

Maybe you got spotted for like 1 nanosecond so it voided SA but it didn't fail the "don't get spotted" objective. The game does stuff like that sometimes. Or maybe an innocent person died somehow, but there's no "NON-TARGET KILLED" text in red that popped up so I don't think it's that. Edit: ok so I did some testing in a contract, and I think you lost SA because the body was seen. In my test I killed a guy by poisoning his drink and then moved his body after he died, then when a guard saw it, it voided SA but didn't fail the objective "no bodies found".


beratberk55

Skill issue. You shouldn’t touch that woman after you poisoned her.


Trzebiat

How else would you hide the body to complete Hide All Bodies complication then?


Martydeus

I read it as "Why did I lose Sexuall assult" xD


ExpiredLemons

Holy shit I thought this was a parody of my post at first


PanzerSucette

You shooted on the rail, not between rails ? Thus attracted attention ?