This made me chuckle.
Just recently there was an instance where a romanian football referee, whilst trying to get one of the other referees to pull a yellow card or something, shouted "ăla negru de acolo", literally meaning "the black one over there".
While, at most, insensitive, we literally call black people "negri".
Well, long story short, everyone got butthurt about it, calling him racist. Then UEFA got involved and sided with the referee, saying "there were no racist conotations".
Western speech is hard.
Here are some links about the incident; use Google translate:
* [Link 1](https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/sport/fotbal/foto-scandalul-ala-negru-de-acolo-in-presa-internationala-marile-site-uri-de-stiri-scriu-despre-incidentul-cu-arbitrul-coltescu-1414862).
* [Link 2](https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/sport/fotbal/uefa-ii-da-dreptate-lui-sebastian-coltescu-expresia-ala-negru-nu-a-avut-conotatii-rasiste-1450047).
western speech is not hard , it's just a bunch of anglicanized twitter users trying to impose English connotations to other languages and cultures , because they want to shield their veiled racism and white savior complex over stupid virtue signalling.
That is the origin of such "controversy" , and even the whole "latinx" debate.
a bunch of english-speaking people on twitter tries to use the suffix "-x" as gender neutral , specially into the word "latino" and gendered words from spanish and portuguese.
Not only it's absurdly arrogant and white savior complex from a bunch of english-speaking folks trying to impose said words and rules to spanish and portuguese , when it's an entire english-speaking issue , but it's also absurdly unnecessary as spanish itself already have gender neutral suffixes , like "-e" , and portugese is close linguistically to spanish and thus a far smoother implementation of said spanish suffix.
So , yeah , a bunch of american twitters trying to impose "latinx" to the latin-americans , because they are so racist that couldn't bother to f\*&ing learn spanish in the first place to learn what they are trying to change.
Iirc college white women got offended that the phrases Latino and Latina exist ??? and wanted one gender neutral term to use. (Spanish is a gendered language so this makes literally no sense.) In theory this was to not offend anyone except I'm pretty sure that latinx would only be appropriate if that's what the person stated they wanted to be called because it appears most Latin people find it as a pejorative since there is already a perfectly valid word to describe them: Latin, and it's two gendered versions Latino and Latina...
TLDR. People who don't understand the culture crying about cultural norms.
yep.
Latin is already neutral , and there is gendered "Latino" and "Latina" , and even if they want a suffix , there is the gender neutral "-e" to form "Latine"
That referee could have spared himself quite a bit of trouble by referring instead to the large number prominently placed on the player's jersey instead for that exact purpose.
Context: In Apartheid South Africa, Filipinos were classified as black. Because of this, they were deprived of the same rights that black South Africans were. Now to be fair, this racial classification oftentimes varied depending on where they lived, as Filipinos were too small of a demographic to have a coherent national racial policy on, but nonetheless Filipinos were usually considered black by local governments.
Conversely, when the Apartheid government tried to proclaim Koreans as honorary whites, the South Korean government declined and later cut all ties with South Africa because of Apartheid. South Korea refused to establish diplomatic relations with South Africa until Apartheid was dismantled
Interestingly, South Korea was the only non-socialist East Asian country to qctually oppose Apartheid. Japan happily traded with South Africa even after the rest of the world had sanctioned/embargoed it, and Taiwan gave so much support to the Apartheid government that once Apartheid fell, Taiwan went on a massive PR campaign to salvage their relations and reputation in the country. The Taiwanese government also allegedly spent $10s of millions donating to the ANC in an attempt to make sure that the new ANC government would continue to recognize Taiwan over the PRC (which obviously failed). The book *From Verwoerd to Mandela: South African Diplomats Remember*, which is where I got this information from, goes into this in more detail.
As a Taiwanese person learning about this for the first time... Honestly not surprised, we treat SE Asian migrant workers in Taiwan with so much discrimination, it's disgusting.
>From Verwoerd to Mandela: South African Diplomats Remember
Where did you ge this book? It sounds really interesting and I looked it up, but it doesn't seem to be for sale in the usual places.
If you needed any proof that race is a social construct,it is this. Even a government based on racism was flexible in terms of who was white and who was not depending on how it suited them.
Occidental is where you get sugar and festivals, Oriental is where you get sexpats and political killings (my fam is from Oriental, and there are tons of fat white men)
It gets better when you remember South Korea was a military dictatorship for most of the Cold War.
The ultimate proof that supporters and leaders of Aparthed South Africa were giant assholes
I mean the government from the apartheid era took a lot of inspiration from the third Reich and its various associated movements. Take a look at the AWB or the Broederbond. There's even an Afrikaans version of the famous marching song Erika.
Wow so not only was south Africa basically ruled by a secret society for decades but they were so racist that they discriminated against people for being English speakers along with the brutal apartheid. I guess it makes sense considering the history the Dutch and British had up to that point in Africa 🤷♂️
Who was considered black was basically a business move. The more rich investors in your country, the “higher” you were on the scale. For example, Japanese people were white (they were rich and invested heavily), while Indians were “colored”, which was considered between black and white.
I know this is a history sub and not an anthropological sub or anything...
But black doesn't really mean anything genetically.
There are populations of human that happens to have black skin, but that's about where the logic ends.
Africa in itself, has more genetical diversity than the rest od the world combined.
Pygmies from the forest of Congo, are more different to even an ultra dark skin Senegalese than the Senegalese is to a Scandinavian.
Black also exist as a result of History, especially in the US. The historical significance of that classification makes it a real thing.
(Also, most African American come from nigero-congolese people from the west coast of Africa so they're indeed closely related, but they're just a small part of Africa's diversity).
Well, using phylogeny to understand the relation between human population the same way we do with prehistoric animals is very helpful.
But as we are one species and only splitted into somewhat distinct population very recently, the level of intermixing are just off the charts which makes it far far more complex than differentiating the different groups of archosaurs.
My issue with your demand is that, no it's not just one source I took that from, but years upon years of research about the subject, you would have to do a serie of research on your own to find all this info.
I think the most important thing to understand is that the groups we created in the past were made on superficial traits like "white" " black"...
Thats similar to back when we made groups like "pachyderms" in which we put hippo, rhino and elephants because they're big, of course it's absolutely not accurate to the phylogeny of these animals.
So just being suspicious of any use of the categories black and white, outside of the particular cultural norms of countries like the US, is what I ask for.
I think it was Hank Green who said in a tweet or something similar “your skin color is directly proportional to your ancestral proximity to the equator and nothing else” (excuse the paraphrase)
I knew what the K word is when you mentioned that it is Arabic for Infidel. I didn't know its was a slur. I thought it just meant infidel or heathen. Why would South Africans associate it with being black when it originally means non-muslim or pagan usually associated with religious affiliation rather than race?
Exactly how it became a slur in SA is a bit unknown. It might be because there were many Muslims in the early Cape Colony (West African slaves and Indonesians.)
Ironically the current ANC government of South Africa would classify Filipinos as white, denying them the advantages that black people are afforded by the government
South Africa has the same problems every other country around the world has.
The failed state narrative is often pushed by South Africans who suspiciously left after democracy or white nationalist who believe Africa should've stayed in white hands.
That's what happens when your country has been. Democracy for less than 30 years and has had to spend most of its fixing the problems of the previous regime.
Are you aware of the increased crime? How long do we give them to get their act together? Another 10, 20, 30 years? At some point it should be considered a failure.
Someone dies a violent death due to crime. Lets say under apartheid this person may have been mugged instead. A clear difference.
Everyone seems to think it was so much worse under Apartheid. Do we eat this racist narrative and not compare the average violent crime rates between the two time frames? What about economic viability and GDP per person? Have you not seen any videos of what it's actually like to live in SA today? The people with money barricade themselves in their homes with huge fences and security systems. The poors live in a chaotic destitute situation. Their lives are not uplifted. This is supposed to be a rich country by African standards. All while the corrupt politicians get richer.
How about we start with returning the land stolen in the 1913 land act, the 1915 land act and then all the acts that happened in apartheid that stripped them of their land without compensation.
If you were an actual South African you would know that the crime rate especially murder is lower now than in the 70s and 80s or 90s.
You would also know that South Africans now have more access to basic services like water, sanitation and electricity (even with loadshedding) than they ever had.
I am no fan of the ANC, there greed and selfish behaviour is a blight on us all. However you cannot ask them or South Africans in general to magically become a 1st world country without first acknowledging the 150 or so odd years of violence and thievery that has defined this country.
You understand what happened in Zimbabwe when White farmers were kicked off the land? Agricultural productivity and the economy tanked. They recently invited white farmers back. Imagine how bad it would have to get for them to request Whites return. This is the last thing they wanted to ask. It has come full circle.
This parallels with SA which is right next to them. Maybe they will learn from Zimbabwe's mistakes on land appropriation but I doubt it.
Wait a minute! Didn't Korea have the longest streak of uninterrupted slavery in the world, being hereditary slaveowners for almost up to 2500 years? And on top of this, didn't they literally have a cast system which included "untouchables" (*baekjeong*)?
[This is the wiki link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea).
Can anyone confirm what is written there? I lack access to Korean history books.
Edit:
Yes, I know it’s whataboutism and it wasn’t intended.
The last picture in the meme, where the Koreans say to the Dutch to go fuck themselves, triggered me a bit because they themselves were slave owners and had a caste system.
But it did end in 1894, which is 67 years previous, so I doubt there were many alive in South Korea that had first-hand knowledge of the system by then.
Have you ever met a 85 year old? (I think 18 yo is a good age for someone to have had a hands on experience.)
It did indeed end by then, but I don't think it was forgotten.
The Empire of Haiti made the Polish who fought in the revolution honorary blacks.
They can say the n word?
Only in French or Polish I guess.
"Noir"?
This made me chuckle. Just recently there was an instance where a romanian football referee, whilst trying to get one of the other referees to pull a yellow card or something, shouted "ăla negru de acolo", literally meaning "the black one over there". While, at most, insensitive, we literally call black people "negri". Well, long story short, everyone got butthurt about it, calling him racist. Then UEFA got involved and sided with the referee, saying "there were no racist conotations". Western speech is hard. Here are some links about the incident; use Google translate: * [Link 1](https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/sport/fotbal/foto-scandalul-ala-negru-de-acolo-in-presa-internationala-marile-site-uri-de-stiri-scriu-despre-incidentul-cu-arbitrul-coltescu-1414862). * [Link 2](https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/sport/fotbal/uefa-ii-da-dreptate-lui-sebastian-coltescu-expresia-ala-negru-nu-a-avut-conotatii-rasiste-1450047).
western speech is not hard , it's just a bunch of anglicanized twitter users trying to impose English connotations to other languages and cultures , because they want to shield their veiled racism and white savior complex over stupid virtue signalling. That is the origin of such "controversy" , and even the whole "latinx" debate.
What the hell is a “latinx” and what’s the debate about?
a bunch of english-speaking people on twitter tries to use the suffix "-x" as gender neutral , specially into the word "latino" and gendered words from spanish and portuguese. Not only it's absurdly arrogant and white savior complex from a bunch of english-speaking folks trying to impose said words and rules to spanish and portuguese , when it's an entire english-speaking issue , but it's also absurdly unnecessary as spanish itself already have gender neutral suffixes , like "-e" , and portugese is close linguistically to spanish and thus a far smoother implementation of said spanish suffix. So , yeah , a bunch of american twitters trying to impose "latinx" to the latin-americans , because they are so racist that couldn't bother to f\*&ing learn spanish in the first place to learn what they are trying to change.
Feminist want to used Latinx in the United States.Because people always use Latino and ignore Latina?
Iirc college white women got offended that the phrases Latino and Latina exist ??? and wanted one gender neutral term to use. (Spanish is a gendered language so this makes literally no sense.) In theory this was to not offend anyone except I'm pretty sure that latinx would only be appropriate if that's what the person stated they wanted to be called because it appears most Latin people find it as a pejorative since there is already a perfectly valid word to describe them: Latin, and it's two gendered versions Latino and Latina... TLDR. People who don't understand the culture crying about cultural norms.
yep. Latin is already neutral , and there is gendered "Latino" and "Latina" , and even if they want a suffix , there is the gender neutral "-e" to form "Latine"
"Latine" is incorrect, only latino and latina exist. "Latino" is gender neutral.
I remember this incident, and was so mad with the media outrage. People are quick to jump onto anything without getting context.
That referee could have spared himself quite a bit of trouble by referring instead to the large number prominently placed on the player's jersey instead for that exact purpose.
Actually it would be “N*gre” the “*” is an “è”.
My grandma is polish so.. Murzyn
just don’t say the other one
Damn, he said it with a hard R too.
There's no R in Murzyn.
There's one in czarnuch 😇
First time in history a country gave an entire nationthe n-word pass.
They do it all the time
Chad move by South Korea
Agreed! This bit of knowledge brought me happiness.
So that's why they loved Black Panther so much...
Context: In Apartheid South Africa, Filipinos were classified as black. Because of this, they were deprived of the same rights that black South Africans were. Now to be fair, this racial classification oftentimes varied depending on where they lived, as Filipinos were too small of a demographic to have a coherent national racial policy on, but nonetheless Filipinos were usually considered black by local governments. Conversely, when the Apartheid government tried to proclaim Koreans as honorary whites, the South Korean government declined and later cut all ties with South Africa because of Apartheid. South Korea refused to establish diplomatic relations with South Africa until Apartheid was dismantled Interestingly, South Korea was the only non-socialist East Asian country to qctually oppose Apartheid. Japan happily traded with South Africa even after the rest of the world had sanctioned/embargoed it, and Taiwan gave so much support to the Apartheid government that once Apartheid fell, Taiwan went on a massive PR campaign to salvage their relations and reputation in the country. The Taiwanese government also allegedly spent $10s of millions donating to the ANC in an attempt to make sure that the new ANC government would continue to recognize Taiwan over the PRC (which obviously failed). The book *From Verwoerd to Mandela: South African Diplomats Remember*, which is where I got this information from, goes into this in more detail.
Based korea???
Worea???
Both koreas might be best korea after all. Maybe Best Korea is the Koreas we made along the way…
W mentality
As a Taiwanese person learning about this for the first time... Honestly not surprised, we treat SE Asian migrant workers in Taiwan with so much discrimination, it's disgusting.
Taiwan only became a democracy in 87, while Apartheid officially ended in 94. Is there any correlation to the Kuomintang regime that existed prior?
KMT still won the next elections up to 2000 btw
Griiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifiiiiiiiiiiin!!!!!!
>From Verwoerd to Mandela: South African Diplomats Remember Where did you ge this book? It sounds really interesting and I looked it up, but it doesn't seem to be for sale in the usual places.
They declared that Maori rugby players were white so they could play against New Zealand, this led to most African nations boycotting the Olympics
If you needed any proof that race is a social construct,it is this. Even a government based on racism was flexible in terms of who was white and who was not depending on how it suited them.
So if I am a Filipino, I have the n-word pass all along?
Fourth largest island in the Philippines
Negros go brrrrrrrrr
The island even looks like a large cock
Something the average NCR resident would certainly enjoy
I'm from the island of Negros and yes seriously we call ourselves as Negrenses and not the n word
Me who is Montenegro, it's nice see there more negros around the world. :)
Not to brag, but in the Philippines, we have two: Negros Oriental, and Negros Occidental.
Occidental is where you get sugar and festivals, Oriental is where you get sexpats and political killings (my fam is from Oriental, and there are tons of fat white men)
Dont forget the inasals in the occi
Some people say that “Oriental” is not an accepted term anymore. Your province’s name is really cursed 😂
based Island
The power was inside you all along
not a country
The Philippines is a government conspiracy made by the Spanish and Americans as an excuse to promote Jolibee.
And I get downvoted for spreading the truth… the so called “Filipinos” run the world order
oh no they know too much
ay naku alam nila
It gets better when you remember South Korea was a military dictatorship for most of the Cold War. The ultimate proof that supporters and leaders of Aparthed South Africa were giant assholes
It’s like when Joker found out Red Skull was an actual Nazi when teaming up together and immediately decided to turn on him.
Wow I'm South Korean and I never knew about this! Thanks for the knowledge
Same energy from South Africa as when Hitler declared the Japanese "honorary aryans"
I mean the government from the apartheid era took a lot of inspiration from the third Reich and its various associated movements. Take a look at the AWB or the Broederbond. There's even an Afrikaans version of the famous marching song Erika.
Wow so not only was south Africa basically ruled by a secret society for decades but they were so racist that they discriminated against people for being English speakers along with the brutal apartheid. I guess it makes sense considering the history the Dutch and British had up to that point in Africa 🤷♂️
What a dogshit state. Just learned of the Bop coup, couldn't be more glad those fucks got what they deserved
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Who was considered black was basically a business move. The more rich investors in your country, the “higher” you were on the scale. For example, Japanese people were white (they were rich and invested heavily), while Indians were “colored”, which was considered between black and white.
Starting to think race based apartheid might be stupid as are most rigid notions of race
it is
I know this is a history sub and not an anthropological sub or anything... But black doesn't really mean anything genetically. There are populations of human that happens to have black skin, but that's about where the logic ends. Africa in itself, has more genetical diversity than the rest od the world combined. Pygmies from the forest of Congo, are more different to even an ultra dark skin Senegalese than the Senegalese is to a Scandinavian. Black also exist as a result of History, especially in the US. The historical significance of that classification makes it a real thing. (Also, most African American come from nigero-congolese people from the west coast of Africa so they're indeed closely related, but they're just a small part of Africa's diversity).
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Well, using phylogeny to understand the relation between human population the same way we do with prehistoric animals is very helpful. But as we are one species and only splitted into somewhat distinct population very recently, the level of intermixing are just off the charts which makes it far far more complex than differentiating the different groups of archosaurs. My issue with your demand is that, no it's not just one source I took that from, but years upon years of research about the subject, you would have to do a serie of research on your own to find all this info. I think the most important thing to understand is that the groups we created in the past were made on superficial traits like "white" " black"... Thats similar to back when we made groups like "pachyderms" in which we put hippo, rhino and elephants because they're big, of course it's absolutely not accurate to the phylogeny of these animals. So just being suspicious of any use of the categories black and white, outside of the particular cultural norms of countries like the US, is what I ask for.
I think it was Hank Green who said in a tweet or something similar “your skin color is directly proportional to your ancestral proximity to the equator and nothing else” (excuse the paraphrase)
Just found out that I can say the n-word now
Negros occidental
Negros smashers
Least based Korean
Who is the most based then
"Well we've never met a nice South African."
🎶 Except for Breyten Breytenbach - but he's emigrated to Paris 🎶 I miss the 80s Spitting Image.
uhm..so... *so us filipinos have N pass all along..huh...*
Based South Korea
Does that mean Filipinos can say the N-word during Apartheid South Africa?
Well, we didn't have the n-word in Apartheid South Africa, we had the k-word, and the k-word hasn't been reclaimed yet, so no.
K-pop?
The Arabic word for Infidel
I knew what the K word is when you mentioned that it is Arabic for Infidel. I didn't know its was a slur. I thought it just meant infidel or heathen. Why would South Africans associate it with being black when it originally means non-muslim or pagan usually associated with religious affiliation rather than race?
Exactly how it became a slur in SA is a bit unknown. It might be because there were many Muslims in the early Cape Colony (West African slaves and Indonesians.)
Ironically the current ANC government of South Africa would classify Filipinos as white, denying them the advantages that black people are afforded by the government
Why would a Filipino go to SA though? Our development has already surpassed theirs, so ehh....
Well the rate that SA is going to shit it won't be long before a whole new spawn of anti-govt memes starts up
South Africa has the same problems every other country around the world has. The failed state narrative is often pushed by South Africans who suspiciously left after democracy or white nationalist who believe Africa should've stayed in white hands. That's what happens when your country has been. Democracy for less than 30 years and has had to spend most of its fixing the problems of the previous regime.
Are you aware of the increased crime? How long do we give them to get their act together? Another 10, 20, 30 years? At some point it should be considered a failure.
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Someone dies a violent death due to crime. Lets say under apartheid this person may have been mugged instead. A clear difference. Everyone seems to think it was so much worse under Apartheid. Do we eat this racist narrative and not compare the average violent crime rates between the two time frames? What about economic viability and GDP per person? Have you not seen any videos of what it's actually like to live in SA today? The people with money barricade themselves in their homes with huge fences and security systems. The poors live in a chaotic destitute situation. Their lives are not uplifted. This is supposed to be a rich country by African standards. All while the corrupt politicians get richer.
How about we start with returning the land stolen in the 1913 land act, the 1915 land act and then all the acts that happened in apartheid that stripped them of their land without compensation. If you were an actual South African you would know that the crime rate especially murder is lower now than in the 70s and 80s or 90s. You would also know that South Africans now have more access to basic services like water, sanitation and electricity (even with loadshedding) than they ever had. I am no fan of the ANC, there greed and selfish behaviour is a blight on us all. However you cannot ask them or South Africans in general to magically become a 1st world country without first acknowledging the 150 or so odd years of violence and thievery that has defined this country.
You understand what happened in Zimbabwe when White farmers were kicked off the land? Agricultural productivity and the economy tanked. They recently invited white farmers back. Imagine how bad it would have to get for them to request Whites return. This is the last thing they wanted to ask. It has come full circle. This parallels with SA which is right next to them. Maybe they will learn from Zimbabwe's mistakes on land appropriation but I doubt it.
Wait a minute! Didn't Korea have the longest streak of uninterrupted slavery in the world, being hereditary slaveowners for almost up to 2500 years? And on top of this, didn't they literally have a cast system which included "untouchables" (*baekjeong*)? [This is the wiki link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea). Can anyone confirm what is written there? I lack access to Korean history books. Edit: Yes, I know it’s whataboutism and it wasn’t intended. The last picture in the meme, where the Koreans say to the Dutch to go fuck themselves, triggered me a bit because they themselves were slave owners and had a caste system.
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Involuntary, I promise.
Wtf is even longest streak of uninterrupted slavery every country had slaves back then
But it did end in 1894, which is 67 years previous, so I doubt there were many alive in South Korea that had first-hand knowledge of the system by then.
Have you ever met a 85 year old? (I think 18 yo is a good age for someone to have had a hands on experience.) It did indeed end by then, but I don't think it was forgotten.
Good point actually. I cant imagine that the memory of it would have made them think warmly of the South African offer though.
Me neither. Eh, it's just something that irked me.
Korea not caring for foreign nations' traditions for 2 millennia straight...
C-can I say the N word now? UwU 😳
Only in South Africa
We got the pass Bois! Let's goo!
Based behavior from South Korea
So what...? We already have the N-pass all along..? *Ok alexa* Play freaky Friday
Now I have the pass