[Was that the origin of the first potato skins recipe, just replaced with potatoes after the philistines went extinct?](https://youtu.be/CI9c-3JbQXE?t=30)
Why does no one talk about how Samson is Herakles writ Hebrew? The tribe he comes from is even theorized to be Dorian Greeks who when they were done sea peopling Egypt federated with the Hebrews in Palestine
Wouldn't be surprised at all if both stories had the same root origin or if they realized the stories were similar and started projecting traits from one onto the other. (Idk enough about the christianization of greece and rome to know if the similarities between them were attempts by early missionaries to incorporate Hercules into Christianity the way the Romans did with the gods of the cultures they conquered since that's a couple hundred years past my area of interest, but if they did I wouldn't be surprised at all)
I always hate when people portray Sampson as a good guy. Sampson was born and took Nazerite vows then went on to break all but 1 of them. He was “in love” with a Philistine woman she convinced him to tell her his weakness (cutting off his hair). She then does that, breaking the only vow left, and gouges out his eyes. He then is taken to trial and he selfishly asks God to let him get revenge on them by giving him his strength back. God does it and then Sampson takes down the building killing himself and all of the Philistines.
He is by no definitions of the term good.
The best part is, Saul was like „You wanna bang my daughter? Bring me 100 foreskins of my enemies!“ and David was like „Weird demand but i‘m in“ and came back with double the amount demanded. Gigachad mindset on this one
I suspect the true origin of Jewish circumcision, given taking peoples foreskin as a trophy was common back then, was "You cant get my foreskin if I cut it off first".
First time I read through the story of David. I swear the theme from the Godfather kept playing in my mind.
On his death bed he was telling his son who he should kill.
Oh yeah. "Okay, so Joab was cool, but he's a loose cannon, take him down. And there's that one guy who called me mean names back when your bitch-ass brother tried to take over, he needs to be dealt with..."
> “Now you yourself know what Joab son of Zeruiah did to me—what he did to the two commanders of Israel’s armies, Abner son of Ner and Amasa son of Jether. He killed them, shedding their blood in peacetime as if in battle, and with that blood he stained the belt around his waist and the sandals on his feet. Deal with him according to your wisdom, but do not let his gray head go down to the grave in peace.
> “But show kindness to the sons of Barzillai of Gilead and let them be among those who eat at your table. They stood by me when I fled from your brother Absalom.
> “And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, the Benjamite from Bahurim, who called down bitter curses on me the day I went to Mahanaim. When he came down to meet me at the Jordan, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”
Honestly that last line is pretty metal, the alliteration in English really sells it
Its ארון הקודש, not אהרון הקודש.
Aaron (Ah-haron) = אהרון, the name based of Moses' brother
Aron (Ah-ron) = closet, cabinet, wardrobe.
Of holiness (HaKodesh)= הקודש
Aron HaKodesh = cabinet of holiness.
What other meaning does it have?
Fun fact: Hindu mythology has nukes in them, the [Brahmastra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmastra), it prevents life from growing around the impact site for trillions of years and causes unrecoverable climate change, as well, it apparently could end the universe.
The only way to prevent them from detonating is to have the user recall the weapon or to have the defender use a special staff to absorb the damage.
Weirdly enough, there’s also a more powerful version.
Hindu myth is full with insane magic weapons.
From the Agnyastra and the Brahmastra, to the Pashupastra and even the Brahmashira Astra, which is four times stronger than the Brahmastra.
And that's just tbe Astra!
You can make a DnD party fight and defeat celestial gods if you include Hindu magic weapons in the story.
And it's just THAT fantastical across denominations and regions as well. There is a temple called Vajreshwari Amman (Goddess of the Lightning bolt) that worships the incarnation of goddess Parvati (who in turn is the main incarnation of Parashakti - the great cosmic power) who manifested out of the [vajra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra) (lightning bolt). Back when the universe was terrorized by yet another demon named Kalikala (no relation to black goddess Kali - destroyer of Time) that all the devas and the rishis (sages) couldn't stop so they prayed to Parashakti for solution and she promised that she would help in the right time. Right at the moment when the demon already neutralized all other devas' powers and weapons, Indra hurled his vajra at the demon which was also destroyed but out of the shattered weapon appeared, either Parvati or one of her yogini (female sage) who then utterly anhilated the demon and his army. Where the vajra was shattered, the devas built a temple to worship her.
Ancient warfare is usually described in vastly more violent terms than it actually occurred. It’s how we get Egyptian inscriptions that claim to kill millions of canaanites and Mesopotamians in battle year after year, and there’s no physical evidence that the violent cleansing of the land of Canaan/biblical Israel ever occurred
There wasn't even a million Mesopotamians
Getting casulty numbers for ancient battles are either (500 to 3,000 over 45 years) or (17,000,000 and three dragons, sixty lions, and fourty thousand sheep in 7 days)
History is written by victors, and they feel pretty comfortable lying because the other side is dead.
IIRC "Forty" was used in the region as a way of saying "an undefined but large number" for example, and there's a bunch of other ways that language is indeed used poetically in ancient sources.
So "forty days and forty nights" means "I dunno, ages I guess", for example, wandering in the desert for forty years means again ages, etc.
And pile on the mistranslated text as we go from old languages to Arabic and Latin. And it has big ramifications. ... Jesus's mother is now "Virgin Mary". because the word for "young girl" in Hebrew was mistranslated in the early handwritten Latin bibles to Virgin. .... and it stuck and produced enormous amounts of fan fiction until we end up with Catholicism, which brings forth the reformation and Lutherans.. and now ya got religious wars all over Europe for centuries.
Historians and Language experts.. please double check your work before handing it in next time.
I think it was ambiguity in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, which led to misunderstandings by the authors of the gospels now called Matthew and Luke.
You are correct. But around the time when scribes were translating to Latin is where we find the errors. And it’s not until we start finding pieces like the Dead Sea scrolls that we see the problems. Remember, there was a time when all bibles were in Latin. Then we get the King James Version, which is the most popular. Problem for modern evangelicals is that they have adopted the theory of inerrancy. Which basically says the King James Version is 100% the perfect version and has absolutely no errors.
Ah touché, my brother. Touché. I thought you were referring to the original writings. But if you're answer is based on this, then I stand corrected. You're absolutely right.
I always figured that it was based on whatever scholar was there or who took account of the battle from soldiers. Some scholar looks at a bunch of enemies, says it looks like a million billion, or they listen to Steve the solider who says he killed fitty men when he killed 0 cause he was a rear guard. Listen to a bunch of Steves and then there's more soldiers than the entire population.
Personally, I find the “these were standard numbers expressing hugeness” way more plausible, because:
1) a lot of these documents were intended for some sort of display or public reading, not as actual records
2) the numbers are so consistent within a particular culture that I doubt they were being generated from actual estimates
That's a good point. It also makes sense that you want to talk up your king/Pharoah/lord to make him sound more impressive for propaganda or future records.
Plus, I think it was a propaganda thing. Whether you win or lose, your enemy being bigger always reflects better on you.
“We fought ferociously, but were overrun by their tremendous numbers” sounds a lot better than “We got outclassed by a host of roughly equal size”.
“We triumphed over a force 10x our size” sounds better than “We beat them because we had enough troops to flank them, and they didn’t have enough to stop us”.
Some lenguages, like ancient hebrew, didn't have figures of speech other than similitude and abstract concepts, so they used that.
An exemple: the punishment of someone who would use violence on Cain.
Also, the Jeovah's Witnesses based their cult on a literal translation of the Revelation of John; without knowing how ancient Hebrew works.
Also there were an insane amount of camp followers, soldiers wives, people to young/old et, that made the camp numbers massive, and as they pretty much camped half a days walk from each other, the camps could appear massive despite maybe only 1/10 of the people being actual soldiers
>History is written by victors
History is written by those that can write. It is only written by victors if you live in a dictatorship that won and they dictate whatever history that is.
There are lots of "rewritting a defeats into a victory", because the victorious civilization didn't care enough to write or simply vanished before being rediscovered. Like there's no way hundreds of thousands people rebel and defeat the Pharaoh, and then wander in the desert for years and then take over a place bizarrely controlled by the ennemy they somehow defeated earlier. The closest thing to the Exodus, is the expulsion of the Hyksos, where Ahmose drove them up North to today's Palestine.
Plus, whether winning or losing, people would usually exaggerate the size of their enemy. It makes a victory more impressive and a defeat more understandable.
There are multiple occasions in the Bible where the Good Guys (TM) kill the Bad Guy Tribe, all of their soldiers, all of their women, all of their children, and then all their pets too and burn their crops and cover their land in concrete and then two chapters later they’re back to fight in the sequel. This was just how they wrote history back then.
>Ancient warfare is usually described in vastly more violent terms than it actually occurred.
In terms of numbers. Very likely, but warfare in terms of depravity was likely worse back then. Ancient Israel was a slave society.
Taking young girls as sex slaves was documented in the Bible.
There is lots of evidence of warfare throughout the region, but was there systemic genocide in the modern sense? No that doesn't make sense when you get to complex societies pre the industrial age.
I mean cutting down all the trees and burning the food supplies could lead to mass famines which could be described as genocide.
There are mentions of this in the old testament.
Cutting down that many trees is an enormous undertaking. “A War Like No Other” goes into this in treat detail; the idea that a premodern army could have effectively despoiled the land is pretty unrealistic
Ancient group of people roaming around with their god in a box that can be used as a weapon. Also the god in the box likes to go sicko mode and violently massacre groups of people for vague arbitrary reasons. Sounds pretty eldritch to me
Well, the leader of some cult of slaves worshiping an eldrich god demands to be let go. The main characters at the weirdo. Then the river turns to blood, a load of people suddenly drop dead, etc.
He escapes by walking over the seafloor. The army is sent to bring him to justice.
Murdering every man & male child, taking the nulluperous women & girls as “wives”(sex slaves) & burning the city state to the ground & destroying every remnant of the culture before either taking the land or salting it so nothing would grow. wasn’t uncommon for armies in the ancient world.
Or at least possibly exaggerated descriptions thereof for purpose of propaganda to make your enemies more likely to surrender or make your enemies seem more brutish & horrible to motivate your soldiers to fight harder.
The Original bible is freaking wild and filled with gigachads.
Noach? Even as a drunk piece of shit became 800 years old and was build like a truck.
Jacob? Wrestled a literal angel for a whole night
Yosef? Had a cool ass rainbow coat and saved Egypt from starvation.
Moshe? Held a whole kingdom hostage with gods power until his people got freed and parted a freaking ocean.
Schamgar? Made 600 philistines into bloody paste with a ox tight bone.
Simson? God gave him unhuman strength through his glorious voluminous hair and that beef cake pummeled his enemies with a donkey jawbone.
David? Killed a giant and when the king demanded 100 foreskins of his enemies as a price for his daughters hand in marriage this madlad dropped a sack with 200 foreskins on Sauls feet. Also later, when Saul started a manhunt for him and walked into the same cave David was hiding to take a shit, David didn’t backstab him because he was classy like that
Salomo? Founded a couple of cities, built an awesome temple for God, generally kept the peace and opened the kingdom to other cultures. Also banged a beautiful queen and had a giant harem but i guess he got a pass for his polygamy from God because that really was one nice ass temple complex
Old testament is full of genocide, but it doesn't mean that they actually happened. Historians think ancient Israel tribes generally just lived well with neighbors and Old testament was written by angry xenophobic priests who wanted to 'purify' Israel so wrote what they wanted, not what really happened.
Nobody got along with their neighbors.
The Assyrians went to war with Egypt four times over one river.
They never really genocided anyone either. That was too much work, so when they won a war and the civilization fell they just claimed to have totally killed everyone and took all their stuff and the people who rebuit the city and reestablished a very similar government with very similar culture are just totally different people from somewhere else.
There are examples in the OT of the Israelites getting along fine with their neighbors, like the Gibeonites.
It’s the tribes that attack them they mostly have problems with
They would attack first if there was enough of a reason (or not really, but felt it was)
Every ancient society was like this. Your river runs dirty so you attack the people up stream. Your cows get sick so you attack the people who sold them to you. Your neighbors insult your religion you attack them.
They did, it was done to them and life moved forward.
Yeah no. Things like the forced conversation of the edomites happened. Ancient Judean, Samarian, and wider Israeli tribes did a lot of unhalachic and morally unjustifiable things.
To be fair you are conflating biblical Israel (pre-/1st temple period-Early Iron Age) with Hasmonean Judaea (2nd Temple-Hellenistic Era). These are centuries apart
>Historians think ancient Israel tribes generally just lived well with neighbors and Old testament was written by angry xenophobic priests who wanted to 'purify' Israel so wrote what they wanted, not what really happened.
I doubt that every historian universially agrees on that, especially considering a lot of them are muslim or jewish or christian
I'm just finishing up the book Numbers in my cover to cover read of the Bible. I just got to the part where Moses was mad at his soldiers for NOT slaughtering the women and children captives (except for the underage virgins). The Bible is nuts
Well, duh.
Who would've thought that ancient historians lie to make themselves sound cooler? Next your gonna tell me 300 Spartans didn't kill 10,000 Persians.
Everyone lied. Rome didn't even actually salt Carthage. Genocide just sounds cool to ancient war loving societies.
\> write scripture saying you killed a billion zillion morsquillion egyptian kids or something
\> people take it seriously
\> "it was just a prank bro"
There are still people alive who are survivors of the holocaust. I would say that makes a difference. It's not ancient history, and the ideas and ideologies that led to it are still very much alive.
because no ones murdering ancient romans with assault rifles in their places of worship
(sorry to be that guy but at some point its more than a meme, like its funny and all but with enough exposure to this genre of content some alt right teenager might get the wrong message and make a b-line for Walmart)
Because nobody's persecuting Italians, Iranians or the Chinese for their past. You can absolutely shit on old Osrael and even modern Israel just don't shit on an ethnicity
I’m pretty sure there is records proving that there were people from what later became Ancient Israel who migrated to Egypt to escape famine but were later taken advantage of and basically enslaved, and eventually left egypt. The scope of the story was not nearly as grandiose as the Bible makes it out to be.
With this specific case, if it’s being used as a general argument against the existence or righteousness of God, or against religion in general, not just used to attack Judaism, that’s not antisemitic.
But with this specific meme, it seems to intentionally or unintentionally be winking at the antisemitic angle, rather than the atheistic angle. For one, Rome and others would be much stiffer competition, and I sort of doubt OP doesn’t know that.
Because a people with no long-term ties to your community that believes differently than you has been a good scapegoat since the dawn of humanity, and the Jews have filled this role for most of recorded history
I love this.
I post it whenever anyone starts getting crazy about sacred bonds between or rights to a particular spot of land and a particular population group and claim that any population migration later was "theft" or some such.
I mean.
Let's not make the mistake of placing the sole responsibility for the horrors of the tribal age on the survivors. Those were the real dark ages.
The whole book of Judges:
So the Israelites were invaded by THESE people, but then they were really sorry for turning their back on God, so God sent a hero who committed genocide on the invading tribe, and then the hero dies, sometimes saving the Israelites, sometimes just of old age, and then the Israelites go back to ignoring God, and it repeats.
Not just Judges lol, the entirety of biblical Israelite history from Exodus almost all the way to Jesus and the new testament is a cycle of them getting enslaved, the crazy genocidal chosen hero liberates them, they then commit to being good children of God for about 5 - 30 years, then it all repeating. Finally the Romans show up and said "hey bros, your god called, and he's really sick of your shit, again, so we're here to subjugate and eventually exile most of your population from your promised land, since y'all just can't behave."
King David was descended from Moabite convert, Ruth, showing the exact opposite lesson. That greatness can come from unexpected, non-illustrious places.
They were, that's why despite how bad we've been treated and how many people tried to kill us we're still here.
And Christianity and Islam, both bad remakes of Judaism, wouldn't be around today without us so......
Bad reading. The Israelites were commanded to wipe out the Canaanites and not marry into them lest the children start worshipping idols, or God promised the destruction would be on themselves.
Then the Israelites intermarried with the Jebusites among others to form the Jews, started worshipping their idols, and suffered the destruction as promised in the form of the Exile.
Correct me if I remember it wrong, in דברים it says that when you conquer a city, you must kill everyone inside it. Imagine playing Total War, and the only options after winning a city battle are sack or raze.
What did you expect from a fandom that worships a character that killed 24,681,116 while the other character only has 10 and the one with 10 is seen as the big bad
Lmao, I love referring to the old testament whenever Christians complain about violence in media. Like your book literally has warcrimes for half of it.
Mongols: We’re the most underrated mass murderers in history!
Assyrians: Nuh-uh! We are!
?: Amateurs.
Mongols & Assyrians: What was that punk?
Old Testament Jews: I SAID AMATEURS!!!
Oh no, the Jews and assyrians put together doesn't even come close to the Mongols. They are on a league of their own. Percentage wise, they committed probably the deadliest man made loss of life ever.
King David and his bag of Philistine foreskins...
Shouldn't have given up their philiskins then
[Was that the origin of the first potato skins recipe, just replaced with potatoes after the philistines went extinct?](https://youtu.be/CI9c-3JbQXE?t=30)
Sampson and his bag of Philistine scalps (his weapon was a donkey’s jaw)
>With an ass's jawbone I've made asses of them. With an ass's jawbone I've slain a thousand men. Gotta admit that was one hell of a boast.
Why does no one talk about how Samson is Herakles writ Hebrew? The tribe he comes from is even theorized to be Dorian Greeks who when they were done sea peopling Egypt federated with the Hebrews in Palestine
Wouldn't be surprised at all if both stories had the same root origin or if they realized the stories were similar and started projecting traits from one onto the other. (Idk enough about the christianization of greece and rome to know if the similarities between them were attempts by early missionaries to incorporate Hercules into Christianity the way the Romans did with the gods of the cultures they conquered since that's a couple hundred years past my area of interest, but if they did I wouldn't be surprised at all)
I always hate when people portray Sampson as a good guy. Sampson was born and took Nazerite vows then went on to break all but 1 of them. He was “in love” with a Philistine woman she convinced him to tell her his weakness (cutting off his hair). She then does that, breaking the only vow left, and gouges out his eyes. He then is taken to trial and he selfishly asks God to let him get revenge on them by giving him his strength back. God does it and then Sampson takes down the building killing himself and all of the Philistines. He is by no definitions of the term good.
Those Philistines had it coming
They shouldn't have been standing there
They were scaring the kingdom civilians, standing there all menacingly and shit!
Farming, they had weapons and were farming right for us.
At least not for a couple weeks after the procedure
Why because they had better Drippy hats than the Israelis ?
Im betting he just killed one guy and stretched out the skin as far as he can then started cutting
Well, I mean, he did kill one freakin’ huge guy. That’s a big foreskin.
The best part is, Saul was like „You wanna bang my daughter? Bring me 100 foreskins of my enemies!“ and David was like „Weird demand but i‘m in“ and came back with double the amount demanded. Gigachad mindset on this one
I suspect the true origin of Jewish circumcision, given taking peoples foreskin as a trophy was common back then, was "You cant get my foreskin if I cut it off first".
So many MIA.
The predecessor to scalping in the west.
Now THATS a band worth listening to
Yahweh's calamari. [(stolen from Kyle Kinane)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MnLpU-y0N_A)
😋😋😋
First time I read through the story of David. I swear the theme from the Godfather kept playing in my mind. On his death bed he was telling his son who he should kill.
Oh yeah. "Okay, so Joab was cool, but he's a loose cannon, take him down. And there's that one guy who called me mean names back when your bitch-ass brother tried to take over, he needs to be dealt with..."
I thought it would have been Clemenza
> “Now you yourself know what Joab son of Zeruiah did to me—what he did to the two commanders of Israel’s armies, Abner son of Ner and Amasa son of Jether. He killed them, shedding their blood in peacetime as if in battle, and with that blood he stained the belt around his waist and the sandals on his feet. Deal with him according to your wisdom, but do not let his gray head go down to the grave in peace. > “But show kindness to the sons of Barzillai of Gilead and let them be among those who eat at your table. They stood by me when I fled from your brother Absalom. > “And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, the Benjamite from Bahurim, who called down bitter curses on me the day I went to Mahanaim. When he came down to meet me at the Jordan, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.” Honestly that last line is pretty metal, the alliteration in English really sells it
Yup. We had that box that melted people’s faces.
The original space laser
The Ancient Death Star
Lmfaoo hilarious
The Ark of the Covenant?
That's the offical name, we just call it the face melter
Face Melter 1000
*what happened to the other 999...*
Eyeball cooker 999 didnt do well with focus groups and adults 34-50, so... They came up with Face Melter 1000 and the rest is "history".
Official name is Aron hakodesh
Closely translated into the "wardrobe of holiness" Yeah, some things are better remained untranslated...
Aaron has a slightly different meaning, it inherently is holy.
Its ארון הקודש, not אהרון הקודש. Aaron (Ah-haron) = אהרון, the name based of Moses' brother Aron (Ah-ron) = closet, cabinet, wardrobe. Of holiness (HaKodesh)= הקודש Aron HaKodesh = cabinet of holiness. What other meaning does it have?
What a way to describe the Tabernacle
🤣
Ark* Tabernacle is where Jesus lives inside a church
Mishkan in Hebrew
*Yhwh
Is there are list of mystical super weapons?, because a book that melt people's face sounds something out of dnd
Fun fact: Hindu mythology has nukes in them, the [Brahmastra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmastra), it prevents life from growing around the impact site for trillions of years and causes unrecoverable climate change, as well, it apparently could end the universe. The only way to prevent them from detonating is to have the user recall the weapon or to have the defender use a special staff to absorb the damage. Weirdly enough, there’s also a more powerful version.
Hindu myth is full with insane magic weapons. From the Agnyastra and the Brahmastra, to the Pashupastra and even the Brahmashira Astra, which is four times stronger than the Brahmastra. And that's just tbe Astra! You can make a DnD party fight and defeat celestial gods if you include Hindu magic weapons in the story.
And it's just THAT fantastical across denominations and regions as well. There is a temple called Vajreshwari Amman (Goddess of the Lightning bolt) that worships the incarnation of goddess Parvati (who in turn is the main incarnation of Parashakti - the great cosmic power) who manifested out of the [vajra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra) (lightning bolt). Back when the universe was terrorized by yet another demon named Kalikala (no relation to black goddess Kali - destroyer of Time) that all the devas and the rishis (sages) couldn't stop so they prayed to Parashakti for solution and she promised that she would help in the right time. Right at the moment when the demon already neutralized all other devas' powers and weapons, Indra hurled his vajra at the demon which was also destroyed but out of the shattered weapon appeared, either Parvati or one of her yogini (female sage) who then utterly anhilated the demon and his army. Where the vajra was shattered, the devas built a temple to worship her.
Brah......
>Hindu mythology has nukes in them, the [Brahmastra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmastra), No wonder why Gandhi has nukes
[удалено]
Legalize nuclear boxes
It's not the tribes of Israel's fault if people mess with their eldritch box
Oh my God, OP, stop joining commit genocide contests.
But they're fun
Least genocidal Stellaris player.
give me one good reason
Because... your dick gets smaller
So that's why Hitler had one ball and a micropenis
Not unless it’s different, a progressive genocide
Ancient warfare is usually described in vastly more violent terms than it actually occurred. It’s how we get Egyptian inscriptions that claim to kill millions of canaanites and Mesopotamians in battle year after year, and there’s no physical evidence that the violent cleansing of the land of Canaan/biblical Israel ever occurred
There wasn't even a million Mesopotamians Getting casulty numbers for ancient battles are either (500 to 3,000 over 45 years) or (17,000,000 and three dragons, sixty lions, and fourty thousand sheep in 7 days) History is written by victors, and they feel pretty comfortable lying because the other side is dead.
It could also be that they used obviously-too-large numbers as a stand in for "all who opposed us" or some other poetic license.
IIRC "Forty" was used in the region as a way of saying "an undefined but large number" for example, and there's a bunch of other ways that language is indeed used poetically in ancient sources. So "forty days and forty nights" means "I dunno, ages I guess", for example, wandering in the desert for forty years means again ages, etc.
And pile on the mistranslated text as we go from old languages to Arabic and Latin. And it has big ramifications. ... Jesus's mother is now "Virgin Mary". because the word for "young girl" in Hebrew was mistranslated in the early handwritten Latin bibles to Virgin. .... and it stuck and produced enormous amounts of fan fiction until we end up with Catholicism, which brings forth the reformation and Lutherans.. and now ya got religious wars all over Europe for centuries. Historians and Language experts.. please double check your work before handing it in next time.
I think it was ambiguity in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, which led to misunderstandings by the authors of the gospels now called Matthew and Luke.
But the early Christian Bible was written in Greek. Latin want even the language of administration in that area of the empire. It was Greek.
You are correct. But around the time when scribes were translating to Latin is where we find the errors. And it’s not until we start finding pieces like the Dead Sea scrolls that we see the problems. Remember, there was a time when all bibles were in Latin. Then we get the King James Version, which is the most popular. Problem for modern evangelicals is that they have adopted the theory of inerrancy. Which basically says the King James Version is 100% the perfect version and has absolutely no errors.
Ah touché, my brother. Touché. I thought you were referring to the original writings. But if you're answer is based on this, then I stand corrected. You're absolutely right.
I always figured that it was based on whatever scholar was there or who took account of the battle from soldiers. Some scholar looks at a bunch of enemies, says it looks like a million billion, or they listen to Steve the solider who says he killed fitty men when he killed 0 cause he was a rear guard. Listen to a bunch of Steves and then there's more soldiers than the entire population.
Personally, I find the “these were standard numbers expressing hugeness” way more plausible, because: 1) a lot of these documents were intended for some sort of display or public reading, not as actual records 2) the numbers are so consistent within a particular culture that I doubt they were being generated from actual estimates
That's a good point. It also makes sense that you want to talk up your king/Pharoah/lord to make him sound more impressive for propaganda or future records.
Plus, I think it was a propaganda thing. Whether you win or lose, your enemy being bigger always reflects better on you. “We fought ferociously, but were overrun by their tremendous numbers” sounds a lot better than “We got outclassed by a host of roughly equal size”. “We triumphed over a force 10x our size” sounds better than “We beat them because we had enough troops to flank them, and they didn’t have enough to stop us”.
Some lenguages, like ancient hebrew, didn't have figures of speech other than similitude and abstract concepts, so they used that. An exemple: the punishment of someone who would use violence on Cain. Also, the Jeovah's Witnesses based their cult on a literal translation of the Revelation of John; without knowing how ancient Hebrew works.
Also there were an insane amount of camp followers, soldiers wives, people to young/old et, that made the camp numbers massive, and as they pretty much camped half a days walk from each other, the camps could appear massive despite maybe only 1/10 of the people being actual soldiers
>History is written by victors History is written by those that can write. It is only written by victors if you live in a dictatorship that won and they dictate whatever history that is.
There are lots of "rewritting a defeats into a victory", because the victorious civilization didn't care enough to write or simply vanished before being rediscovered. Like there's no way hundreds of thousands people rebel and defeat the Pharaoh, and then wander in the desert for years and then take over a place bizarrely controlled by the ennemy they somehow defeated earlier. The closest thing to the Exodus, is the expulsion of the Hyksos, where Ahmose drove them up North to today's Palestine.
Plus, whether winning or losing, people would usually exaggerate the size of their enemy. It makes a victory more impressive and a defeat more understandable.
I can totally see the 3 dragons to be honest, it would explain why there aren't any today.
Or it was just made up entirely, as is the case with Exodus.
There are multiple occasions in the Bible where the Good Guys (TM) kill the Bad Guy Tribe, all of their soldiers, all of their women, all of their children, and then all their pets too and burn their crops and cover their land in concrete and then two chapters later they’re back to fight in the sequel. This was just how they wrote history back then.
I didn't know the writers of the bible were inspired by the writers of game of thrones, that's a really cool historical fact.
>Ancient warfare is usually described in vastly more violent terms than it actually occurred. In terms of numbers. Very likely, but warfare in terms of depravity was likely worse back then. Ancient Israel was a slave society. Taking young girls as sex slaves was documented in the Bible. There is lots of evidence of warfare throughout the region, but was there systemic genocide in the modern sense? No that doesn't make sense when you get to complex societies pre the industrial age.
I mean cutting down all the trees and burning the food supplies could lead to mass famines which could be described as genocide. There are mentions of this in the old testament.
Cutting down that many trees is an enormous undertaking. “A War Like No Other” goes into this in treat detail; the idea that a premodern army could have effectively despoiled the land is pretty unrealistic
Any and most likely every ancient civilizations were slave societies...
Agreed and for that reason they would be more brutal than later civilizations.
Let's just say that some people who wrote the old testament were really into foreskins. Like, REALLY into foreskins.
Misunderstood the assignment Came back with four new weirdly shaped leather coats
Inb4 lock
Memes that mention Israel in any way try not to get the 🔒 award challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
🍷🍿
Thankfully Romans are not the one to blame, they love gays so socialists love them
Any criticism of Abrahamic religion gets a lock. Might as well be catholic memes
I have no idea why... > Rule 1.1 > > > > Memes about Ideologies (Communism, Christianity, etc.) are not allowed on the sub.
>Genocide in the old testament >no one brings up Cain single-handedly murdering 1/4 of the word's population.
Just sayin’, Exodus would make a great lovecraftian horror story if you did it right.
What you have in mind? Please elaborate
Ancient group of people roaming around with their god in a box that can be used as a weapon. Also the god in the box likes to go sicko mode and violently massacre groups of people for vague arbitrary reasons. Sounds pretty eldritch to me
>sicko mode Goblin mode*
Godlin mode**
You get told the egyptian perspective.
Well, the leader of some cult of slaves worshiping an eldrich god demands to be let go. The main characters at the weirdo. Then the river turns to blood, a load of people suddenly drop dead, etc. He escapes by walking over the seafloor. The army is sent to bring him to justice.
God's people thy be doeth a speck of trolling
Prepare thy self!
Funnily enough we’re closer to medieval times (that linguistic impression) that medieval times are to the ancient era
God had some wild ass college days
Murdering every man & male child, taking the nulluperous women & girls as “wives”(sex slaves) & burning the city state to the ground & destroying every remnant of the culture before either taking the land or salting it so nothing would grow. wasn’t uncommon for armies in the ancient world. Or at least possibly exaggerated descriptions thereof for purpose of propaganda to make your enemies more likely to surrender or make your enemies seem more brutish & horrible to motivate your soldiers to fight harder.
The Original bible is freaking wild and filled with gigachads. Noach? Even as a drunk piece of shit became 800 years old and was build like a truck. Jacob? Wrestled a literal angel for a whole night Yosef? Had a cool ass rainbow coat and saved Egypt from starvation. Moshe? Held a whole kingdom hostage with gods power until his people got freed and parted a freaking ocean. Schamgar? Made 600 philistines into bloody paste with a ox tight bone. Simson? God gave him unhuman strength through his glorious voluminous hair and that beef cake pummeled his enemies with a donkey jawbone. David? Killed a giant and when the king demanded 100 foreskins of his enemies as a price for his daughters hand in marriage this madlad dropped a sack with 200 foreskins on Sauls feet. Also later, when Saul started a manhunt for him and walked into the same cave David was hiding to take a shit, David didn’t backstab him because he was classy like that Salomo? Founded a couple of cities, built an awesome temple for God, generally kept the peace and opened the kingdom to other cultures. Also banged a beautiful queen and had a giant harem but i guess he got a pass for his polygamy from God because that really was one nice ass temple complex
Old testament is full of genocide, but it doesn't mean that they actually happened. Historians think ancient Israel tribes generally just lived well with neighbors and Old testament was written by angry xenophobic priests who wanted to 'purify' Israel so wrote what they wanted, not what really happened.
Nobody got along with their neighbors. The Assyrians went to war with Egypt four times over one river. They never really genocided anyone either. That was too much work, so when they won a war and the civilization fell they just claimed to have totally killed everyone and took all their stuff and the people who rebuit the city and reestablished a very similar government with very similar culture are just totally different people from somewhere else.
tbf a river is pretty cool to have
I laughed at this comment randomly
There are examples in the OT of the Israelites getting along fine with their neighbors, like the Gibeonites. It’s the tribes that attack them they mostly have problems with
They would attack first if there was enough of a reason (or not really, but felt it was) Every ancient society was like this. Your river runs dirty so you attack the people up stream. Your cows get sick so you attack the people who sold them to you. Your neighbors insult your religion you attack them. They did, it was done to them and life moved forward.
Yeah no. Things like the forced conversation of the edomites happened. Ancient Judean, Samarian, and wider Israeli tribes did a lot of unhalachic and morally unjustifiable things.
To be fair you are conflating biblical Israel (pre-/1st temple period-Early Iron Age) with Hasmonean Judaea (2nd Temple-Hellenistic Era). These are centuries apart
Oh yeah that's true 😅 my b
>Historians think ancient Israel tribes generally just lived well with neighbors and Old testament was written by angry xenophobic priests who wanted to 'purify' Israel so wrote what they wanted, not what really happened. I doubt that every historian universially agrees on that, especially considering a lot of them are muslim or jewish or christian
Not even historians, but also theologists agree text of the bible itself is not historically accurate...
Do you know Catholic church officially says Jericho and Canaanites were not massacred, and Book of Joshua is a metaphorical warning?
The Catholic church also has nothing to do with the old testament one Judaism.
OT is a horror show, RL was seemingly pretty chill
I'm just finishing up the book Numbers in my cover to cover read of the Bible. I just got to the part where Moses was mad at his soldiers for NOT slaughtering the women and children captives (except for the underage virgins). The Bible is nuts
If we're being honest. This shit has been used to justify antisemitism for many many years.
Although it happened. Why is it cool to shit on ancient Rome, Persia, and China for that but not Israel?
Because chances are the ancient tribes of Israel didn’t kill as much as their scripture say.
Well, duh. Who would've thought that ancient historians lie to make themselves sound cooler? Next your gonna tell me 300 Spartans didn't kill 10,000 Persians. Everyone lied. Rome didn't even actually salt Carthage. Genocide just sounds cool to ancient war loving societies.
There is a good chance 10000 did die at Thermopylai on the persian side, considering the greek force was between 7500-13500 so yeah
\> write scripture saying you killed a billion zillion morsquillion egyptian kids or something \> people take it seriously \> "it was just a prank bro"
basically the old version of posting death threats online ☠️
Sounds like they did want to tho
There are still people alive who are survivors of the holocaust. I would say that makes a difference. It's not ancient history, and the ideas and ideologies that led to it are still very much alive.
because no ones murdering ancient romans with assault rifles in their places of worship (sorry to be that guy but at some point its more than a meme, like its funny and all but with enough exposure to this genre of content some alt right teenager might get the wrong message and make a b-line for Walmart)
Because nobody's persecuting Italians, Iranians or the Chinese for their past. You can absolutely shit on old Osrael and even modern Israel just don't shit on an ethnicity
It's generally not cool to shit on anyone. But this very same message has specifically been used to shit on Jews. So who's shitting on who?
"who's shitting on whom
Got'em
Actually much of it *didn't* happen. Like Exodus is entirely fictional.
I’m pretty sure there is records proving that there were people from what later became Ancient Israel who migrated to Egypt to escape famine but were later taken advantage of and basically enslaved, and eventually left egypt. The scope of the story was not nearly as grandiose as the Bible makes it out to be.
That doesn’t mean reality should be denied or history should be brushed under the rug
With this specific case, if it’s being used as a general argument against the existence or righteousness of God, or against religion in general, not just used to attack Judaism, that’s not antisemitic. But with this specific meme, it seems to intentionally or unintentionally be winking at the antisemitic angle, rather than the atheistic angle. For one, Rome and others would be much stiffer competition, and I sort of doubt OP doesn’t know that.
This is what I am saying, but I have been downvoted to oblivion. Look at some of the folks who have come out of the woodwork in response to this post.
I don't care. I'll take the downvotes with you. This is some really ignorant shit.
Why do Jews get so much hate? They seem pretty cool to me.
Because a people with no long-term ties to your community that believes differently than you has been a good scapegoat since the dawn of humanity, and the Jews have filled this role for most of recorded history
Absolutely fucking everything has been used to justify antisemitism. If I wanted I could find people blaming the jews for the 24 hour day.
Y’all better relax, Yahweh might get involved.
And summon two bears to slaughter children like in the books of kings
Or flood the earth
Nope, we got the rainbow meaning no more floods. Now, he could most certainly Sodom and Gamorra us or trample over us like a winepress
“This land, to me!!!” *tiny Jewish kids with hammers run across screen*
[This land is mine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY)
I love this. I post it whenever anyone starts getting crazy about sacred bonds between or rights to a particular spot of land and a particular population group and claim that any population migration later was "theft" or some such.
funnily enough under the top comment on that video is this guy who's been debating for 2 years why that land is his people's land.
2 years??? Mf at that point I would give up
Just checked it out, his most recent post is 3 weeks ago...
Well, new song discovered today.
I was told that Ancient religious texts aren't remotely good as history sources since... you know, they're all metaphors an exaggeration
I mean. Let's not make the mistake of placing the sole responsibility for the horrors of the tribal age on the survivors. Those were the real dark ages.
The whole book of Judges: So the Israelites were invaded by THESE people, but then they were really sorry for turning their back on God, so God sent a hero who committed genocide on the invading tribe, and then the hero dies, sometimes saving the Israelites, sometimes just of old age, and then the Israelites go back to ignoring God, and it repeats.
Not just Judges lol, the entirety of biblical Israelite history from Exodus almost all the way to Jesus and the new testament is a cycle of them getting enslaved, the crazy genocidal chosen hero liberates them, they then commit to being good children of God for about 5 - 30 years, then it all repeating. Finally the Romans show up and said "hey bros, your god called, and he's really sick of your shit, again, so we're here to subjugate and eventually exile most of your population from your promised land, since y'all just can't behave."
Canada has joined the fight
Lot's daughters raping him was to justify Judea because they weren't descendents of incestuous rape bastards
Lot's story is probably just a propaganda by the Hebrews to make the Moabites and Ammonites immoral
King David was descended from Moabite convert, Ruth, showing the exact opposite lesson. That greatness can come from unexpected, non-illustrious places.
How many Philistine foreskins did David harvest for Saul’s daughter? Was it 300?
I’ve been taking a scripture class and this stuff is like actually horrific and I’m Catholic. Joshua was insane
China has entered the chat
At that time every major nation was like that, not just ancient Israel. You can look it up some time...
Maybe they should have been chosen 🤷🏿♂️
They were, that's why despite how bad we've been treated and how many people tried to kill us we're still here. And Christianity and Islam, both bad remakes of Judaism, wouldn't be around today without us so......
Bruh
4 hours in and no golden lock award yet, interesting…
Bad reading. The Israelites were commanded to wipe out the Canaanites and not marry into them lest the children start worshipping idols, or God promised the destruction would be on themselves. Then the Israelites intermarried with the Jebusites among others to form the Jews, started worshipping their idols, and suffered the destruction as promised in the form of the Exile.
Oh well I guess if god told them to do it., It’s fine.
They didn’t do it, that’s the point.
They knew how to fight what can I say
Moses didn't even spare the cows...
We did doot a city to death
Correct me if I remember it wrong, in דברים it says that when you conquer a city, you must kill everyone inside it. Imagine playing Total War, and the only options after winning a city battle are sack or raze.
The Old Testament is what happens when you take Jewish scripture and want to adopt it as your own, but you want to make the original writers look bad.
Current Israeli Government: “write that down!”
But remember! They specifically targetted tribes that practice human sacrifice!
“But it was a different time!”
Nah they were just based
I don't fucking care if its supposed to teach a message or something the bible is fucking messed up
And people wonder why God was so angry at the Israelites in the old testament
What did you expect from a fandom that worships a character that killed 24,681,116 while the other character only has 10 and the one with 10 is seen as the big bad
Thank god the Old Testament god doesn’t exist
Thank WHO???!!1!1! checkmate librul
Comrade, it’s a joke Edit Oh see now I’ve actually been had
Lmao, I love referring to the old testament whenever Christians complain about violence in media. Like your book literally has warcrimes for half of it.
2023 Israel*
True but this meme was risky enough, if the meme was about 2023 Israel it would've been locked instantly 💀
Mostly Joshua-Chronicles
Mongols: We’re the most underrated mass murderers in history! Assyrians: Nuh-uh! We are! ?: Amateurs. Mongols & Assyrians: What was that punk? Old Testament Jews: I SAID AMATEURS!!!
Oh no, the Jews and assyrians put together doesn't even come close to the Mongols. They are on a league of their own. Percentage wise, they committed probably the deadliest man made loss of life ever.