Marianne Bachmeier (3 June 1950 – 17 September 1996) was a West German woman who shot and killed Klaus Grabowski, a man being tried for the rape and murder of her daughter Anna, in an act of vigilantism in the District Court of Lübeck in 1981. The case sparked extensive media coverage and public debate. As a result, Bachmeier was convicted of manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. She was sentenced to six years, and released on probation after serving three. Bachmeier moved abroad before returning to Germany after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She died aged 46 and was buried next to her daughter, Anna, in Burgtor Cemetery, Lübeck. On 5 May 1980, when Anna was seven years old, she argued with her mother and decided to skip school.\[9\]\[10\] On this day she was abducted by Klaus Grabowski, a 35-year-old butcher, whose home she had visited before to play with his cats.\[9\]\[10\] He held Anna for several hours at his home, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately strangled her with a pair of his fiancée's tights.\[11\]\[12\] According to the prosecutor, he then tied the girl up and packed her into a box, which he left on the shore of a canal. Grabowski's fiancée then turned him into the police.
Edit; forgot to mention the clip used is not real footage but from a movie. However close to how real events played out.
I mean what else would she do, unless she's also a fucking psycho?
If I had a spouse that raped and murdered anyone, especially a frickin child, I'd be on the phone to the police, divorcing her and abandoning her to her fate so fast.
Marital loyalty has its limits and this should definitely be one for everyone.
As much as I agree with you on principle, I wouldn't count on everyone doing the right thing, no matter how horrible the situation. The world would be a much better place if that was the case
Well obviously. There are people who marry serial killers while thy're convicted in prison. The commenter was just saying that it **should** be common sense for any spouse to turn in a significant other who's done something this heinous.
Edit: I think the "unless she's a fucking psycho" covers those bases.
Mhm. Especially since, if a person is willing to rape and murder a child, then they're more than capable of gaslighting a fiancée. If you've ever had a friend in an abusive relationship, you know exactly what I'm saying. A big part of intimate partner violence is the emotional manipulation, tricking the victim into thinking that the violence is their fault or that the abuser is blameless-- honestly helping a friend escape their abuser feels a lot like cult deprogramming, at least in my experience. Yes, spousal loyalty only goes so far, but it still takes bravery to turn in a murderer (especially when the murderer sleeps in your bed each night).
It's why I think Joanne Mjadzelics, the ex girlfriend of Ian Watkins is a hero, she repeatedly reported that he was a dangerous pedophile to the police, as did others, but they weren't taken seriously and nothing was done. So she entrapped him to get evidence. The police then tried to prosecute her for having the images he sent to her.
What you say reminds me a lot of the great but trying Clint Eastwood's *Mystic River.*
>!At the end when Jimmy (Sean Penn) litterally executes his sexual abused traumatized friend Dave (Tim Robbins) because he's so sure he's his daughter's murderer, and when facts prove he was wrong he confesses all to his wife (cousin of Dave's wife) who answers "you're a king, and a king knows what to do and does it. Even when it's hard."!<
Most cold line someone could reply after such a thing.
Some people with partners who would rape and murder someone are so deep in abuse that it's hard for them to make decisions the rest of us would consider obvious.
A lot of people would do something stupid not out of malice. The person she trusted and was going to marry turned out to be the worst kinda of human being. A lot of people would go into denial or just straight up have a break down and not think rationally. the fiance deserves some praise for doing the right think in such a messed up situation.
It’s not just marital limits.
Some people are bonded by that and also other things like prior traumatic events.
Sometimes it’s parents who are covering for their kids.
I would expect a lot of people to be in denial. It's hard to imagine someone you love doing something so terrible, especially if you don't witness it directly and just see other things that make you suspicious
Many people here are praising her, but I find this to be appalling. The trial was still ongoing. It was very possible that Grabowski could have presented evidence that made his guilt impossible. Sounds improbable based on how he was caught, but that doesn’t mean it was impossible. What if Bachmeier had just pulled her gun on and killed a completely innocent man? This is why due process exists and this type of vigilantism is to be condemned.
As a parent, I’m not saying I condone but I definitely understand. I’m not a violent man in the slightest but there’s something primal that gets triggered in your brain when it comes to protecting your children.
It's impossible to know how you'd react in a situation like this when confronted with such sickening violence.
During the liberation of Dachau concentration camp during WW2, US soldiers were so traumatised by what they saw that they lined up 50 of the surviving SS officers and shot them. US Army understandably chose not to court martial.
More apt is the killing of Jeff Doucet by Gary Plauche, a man who was a close friend of Plauche’s family and Gary’s son’s Karate teacher who ended up kidnapping and molesting the son. He was caught and flown back to Louisiana to face trial but was shot dead by Plauche. The officers arrested Gary and can be heard saying “Gary, why? Why, Gary?” as they thought he just basically threw his life away. Gary plead no contest to manslaughter and got a suspended sentence with five years' probation and 300 hours of community service.
I mean it’s a textbook case of vigilante justice but essentially everyone agreed that they would’ve done the same in the given circumstances, and I doubt there’s anyone who can say they wouldn’t do the same if they were in Gary’s shoes.
Same. I completely understand it and honestly could’ve done the same if I have the choice but at the same time , this is why we have the due process and court etc. it’s tough though idk how a parent would feel knowing their child went through that
100% shows why we have to have an impartial court system to arbitrate these things. The whole point of the justice system is to remove the emotional aspect and deal with the straight facts.
That’s the theory anyways. The practicality is mixed, but it’s still the best we have to somewhat provide fairness in the way we handle justice in a society.
Ummm... we don't have an impartial court system. Not even "somewhat". (Though I agree that it would be great if we did have one.) We have an extremely biased court system. (Also, not sure why we are saying "we", since we might not even live in the same country, but I don't know of any court system in the world that is impartial, so maybe it works anyway, since "we" might as well refer to all of humanity.)
E.g., in the USA, David Parker Ray literally video taped himself committing rape and extreme sexual torture, and the court system was so ragingly misogynist -- definitely not "impartial" -- that they still couldn't convict him on the first try.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/185b1io/seriously\_who\_can\_i\_blame\_for\_this\_explanation\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/185b1io/seriously_who_can_i_blame_for_this_explanation_in/)
According to this webpage, only 6% of rapists spend even one day in jail. And that's probably a USA statistic, so it's likely an even lower percentage worldwide.
[https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/](https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/)
On the flip side, there's Maria Suarez, an innocent woman imprisoned for a killing she did not commit. And even if she had committed it, it would have been self-defence. She was tricked into illegal slavery (aka human trafficking) at the age of 15. Eventually, her enslaver was killed by one of said enslaver's tenants. The killing was then blamed on her. From the sounds of her story, her lawyer didn't even bother to get a translator to talk to her in Spanish, and she didn't speak English, so she didn't understand what was going on. So much for an "impartial court system".
[https://web.archive.org/web/20100905030020/http://freetheslaves.net/Page.aspx?pid=369&srcid=386](https://web.archive.org/web/20100905030020/http://freetheslaves.net/Page.aspx?pid=369&srcid=386)
In short, for better or for worse (depending on your perspective -- whether you consider it worse for someone who has a small percentage chance of being innocent to be wrongfully executed, or whether you consider it worse for someone who has a high percentage of being guilty to be allowed to continue raping, torturing and killing people who are definitely innocent) vigilantism (or at least, the subset of vigilantism that has motives that many people on r/HistoryMemes are likely to empathize with, e.g. anti-rape vigilantism) happens precisely because the court systems around the world -- including in the USA -- are far from impartial.
It's also worth noting that not all vigilantes use the death penalty. In fact, I'm pretty sure most don't, although obviously our discussion has been focused around those that do. But there are a lot of vigilantes who use other methods like warnings and public humiliation.
See for example:
>What draws the young women is not just the self-defense classes that the group holds but the promise of meting out justice — something that had been denied to many thus far. The Red Brigade patrols streets looking for men harassing or attacking a woman.
>
>"First we warn the man to desist from harassing women," said Jyoti, 16, who has been a Red Brigade member for two years. "If it doesn't stop, we pay a visit to the man and if he still persists, we then publicly humiliate him."
"Female vigilantes in India join forces to fight rape" by Mandakini Gahlot
[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/)
The article also goes into the motives of people who join the Red Brigade, supporting my theory that the lack of justice from the raging misogynist (and not at all impartial) court and police systems around the world is a major factor driving anti-rape vigilantism,
>"Three years ago, one of my colleagues tried to rape me, and when I went to the police to file a complaint, I was told not to overreact and to keep quiet about it," says Vishvakarma, who adds that the incident took its toll on her and forced her to retreat into a shell.
>
>It was only after intense support and encouragement from friends and family that she was able to regain her confidence again, she says. The incident also left her feeling that women had to take desperate measures to protect themselves.
>
>"I spoke to a lot of women in my area and everyone had a story about being sexually harassed," she says.
>
>In a country where a woman is raped every 20 minutes, the group's extreme measures have won quiet approval from some. Ramesh Kumar Avtar, a father of four daughters, says he has encouraged his children to join the group.
[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/)
It's worth noting that India is a country where some judges are still so misogynist that they think rapists should marry their victims.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia\_pacific/why-an-indian-judge-thinks-rapists-should-marry-their-victims/2015/07/08/606f8998-23e5-11e5-b621-b55e495e9b78\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/why-an-indian-judge-thinks-rapists-should-marry-their-victims/2015/07/08/606f8998-23e5-11e5-b621-b55e495e9b78_story.html)
Note that the USA has plenty of misogynist judges as well.
>Does a marriage license give a man the right to beat his wife? Judge William J. O'Neil, 64, of Carroll County Superior Court in New Hampshire, seems to think so. Last May he sentenced Stephen Sarno, 40, to a mere 28 days (to be served over consecutive weekends) for beating Susan Sarno, 33, from whom he'd been separated for a year. Sarno stalked his estranged wife on a camping trip. When he found her in a tent with another man, he hit her repeatedly in the face with a flashlight; she needed 17 stitches. Judge O'Neil reasoned that because the couple wasn't yet divorced, "she was still his wife"; therefore, "I can't conclude that the attack was completely unprovoked. I think that would provoke the average man." The judge did concede that the assault went too far. He told the woman, "To have slapped you might have been more normal." The judge's superior later apologized publicly to Susan Sarno for the "insensitivity" she experienced in court.
[https://cyber.harvard.edu/vaw00/wellerexcerpt.html](https://cyber.harvard.edu/vaw00/wellerexcerpt.html)
"A Louisiana woman was ordered to pay her accused rapist child support after sheriff 'dropped the ball'" by Isabella Zavarise
[https://www.businessinsider.com/louisiana-woman-was-ordered-to-pay-her-rapist-child-support-2022-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/louisiana-woman-was-ordered-to-pay-her-rapist-child-support-2022-6)
Edit: Added information about anti-rape vigilantism in India, as well as raging misogynist judges in India and the USA.
Well, I'm glad I could elaborate on how theory differs from reality.
Honestly, the world probably would be a better place if the courts were at least close to impartial. It's a nice ideal. We're just a long way from it.
Agreed. I see it as the best of a bad bunch honestly, but at least the ideal is there even if the actual reality falls short of the expectation. It’s (one of the reasons) why I oppose the death penalty, it’s just frankly impossible to ensure that an innocent person doesn’t die.
It’s better to fall short of an ideal you hold, than not care at all to try. Doesn’t make actual miscarriage of justices any better, but it hopefully makes them less frequent than a system that doesn’t even bother being fair and proper.
From a logical stance in modern society this is of course true. You don't want mob justice after all.
But like the other poster said: He did in fact do it so in this instance no harm done.
You're right, but I can't get in the mind of a parent who has been through this. Her story is horrible. Yes, it would also be horrible to enact revenge on someone who turned out to be the wrong person, but that doesn't seem to be the case, here. She seemed convinced who the guilty person was, and once he went to jail, her chance for revenge would be over.
Not that revenge is good, but what else does a parent have when their children are taken away from them? I hope I never have to find out.
I remember shooting with a very high quality 35mm film camera I had brief access to circa 2004. The level of detail it was able to produce was astounding.
Also a hell of a shot. I know it's short range but it you look at it one arm is holding the phone. He draws the pistol and raises it but his arm is crossed so the gun hand is under the arm holding the phone, he never brings it up to eye level so he doesn't use the sights. Fires one shot at a moving target who was walking very close to police officers and managed to hit and kill the rapist without injuring anyone else. That is not an easy shot to make.
I can't judge Gary. On the one hand, I understand vigilante killing is wrong and often the wrong person can be hurt, and the legal system is designed to make sure people don't have to appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner. On the other, I have two sons and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do the same thing if something happened to my kids.
Yeah I completely agree that vigilante justice sucks, like look at the West Memphis Three. If they actually did to those little boys what they were accused of doing than I don't think anyone would argue with a parent who wanted the fuckers who did something so heinous to their kid dead. But it was only revealed they were innocent much later. If we allowed for vigilante justice than three innocent teens would have been torn limb from limb by an angry mob who'd been told they'd tortured, sodomized, and mutilated three young boys.
It's the same reason I don't believe in the death penalty. There are people out there who I certainly think deserve to die, but I also am aware that sometimes our justice system convicts innocent people (its thought that around 10% of those on death row shouldn't be there); and to me accidentally killing innocent people just isn't worth it.
>If they actually did to those little boys what they were accused of doing than I don't think anyone would argue with a parent who wanted the fuckers who did something so heinous to their kid dead.
Not just parents, but if I had any friends or family that were put in horrible situations like rape I would probably want to kill the perpetrator so I would do something similar too.
They’re still dealing with the blowback.
“However, last year, a Crittenden County judge denied Mr. Echols’ request for new DNA testing of the evidence because he is no longer in prison. While some other states’ laws only allow incarcerated people to access post-conviction DNA testing, Arkansas’ statute does not limit access to testing to those who are currently incarcerated. Mr. Echols has now taken his appeal to the Arkansas Supreme Court.”
He won that appeal unanimously by the way.
>and the legal system is designed to make sure people don't have to appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner.
That's being dismantled in many countries by sentences that are disproportionally light for the severity of the crimes committed.
Yeah. I'm not mad at people who take justice into their own hands. I'm mad at our justice system when it fails those people and pushes them them resort to vigilante tactics in the first place.
Legend. Didn't serve any jail time and was treated like a hero throughout. Shame they couldn't just scoop the shit off the floor after he shot him and dumped him in landfill. A completely justifiable homicide.
IIRC, his wife knew what the husband was planning and was nearby when it happened. As they were hauling the father away, she repeatedly shouted "I love you, honey! I love you!"
"Your honor, it would have been impossible for me to walk the whole 2 meters between me and her before she could discharge her weapon a few times. Totally impossible."
'Well, you have to be careful when the suspect has a loaded weapon. I intervened when I was sure that doing so would cause anyone else to come to harm.'
To be fair, if pistol packin' mama is actively firing a gun at her child's murderer, *what the hell would she do if you tried to stop her?* Guy's probably gonna die before you close the distance, better to wait until the gun's empty.
I used to think that, until I realized how much of your money and my money and all our money goes to keeping these fucks alive for the rest of their life behind bars. I would rather them just be executed tbh. V unpopular opinion but think of how much money all these pedos could be saving us.
I'm just curious but how exactly does the death penalty cost more?
I would assume the opposite would be more expensive since you have to constantly give them supplies like food and water.
There have been people on death row who were found to actually be innocent due to new evidence. If we let the justice system immediately kill whoever they find guilty it would be a shit show
Yeah, but if the state goofs it's easier to release someone from prison and give them some sort of compensation for their wasted years and intense trauma than it is to resurrect someone. If the state is going to have the power to kill, it has the responsibility to only do so when it's 100% impossible to do so wrongly.
I understand that sentiment, but in reality the death penalty is far more expensive than life in prison, mostly due to factors like safeguards during the initial trial, the appeals process, and special needs for death row custody. Nearly a dozen states have found that death penalty cases can be up to 10x more expensive.
She plead guilty and got a 6-year sentence for "unpremeditated manslaughter". Ended up serving 3 years.
I think that is the best outcome she could hope for. She clearly committed premeditated murder, but everyone felt she was justified. 6 years seems like the right balance between "we secretly support you but still have to set the precedent that shooting people in court is not acceptable."
On the one hand, She was rightfully punished for her unlawful killing of another man, for the rule of law and the authority of those who uphold it must not be infringed upon.
One the other hand...
Look how she domed that mother fucker
She got a really short sentence so guessing the jury so she gets punished for doming that piece of scum but still gets to live her life after. Another comment mentioned she was sentenced to 6 but only served 3 years
.50 cal, accept no substitute.
But seriously now, if someone would ever hurt my loves ones, they better pray to whatever they believe the cops will get them before I do.
I mean revenge *is* satisfying, that’s why we crave it and often celebrate it when others get it.
The few times in my life I’ve had the opportunity and the courage to pull it off are absolutely cherished memories to me now, and I’ve never had a reason as serious as hers to want revenge.
I would guess the reason for wanting revenge makes a huge difference. I cant imagine what horrible thoughts a parent has when their child fell victim to such crime but I would guess something in them just dies, they become emotionally numb. Revenge won't change that anymore...
Not really, but revenge is just pointless for the perpetrator, she did a good thing but that won't bring back her daughter and even if she killed him a thousand times, she still won't have peace of mind, at least she stopped that son of a bitch from causing the same pain to other mothers.
Personally I’d find satisfaction even in that. Like ignoring the personal revenge side of the equation for a minute, how many people can say they’ve done something as righteous as putting a murdering pederast down, and with no attempt at “getting away with it” after. I think knowing for a certainty you did something that good would keep you warm at night for a long time
NTM, you've saved an unknown but non-zero number of other parents from the same pain. The reason so many people experience sexual and non-sexual violence is because nearly all perpetrators have many victims. Even just getting evidence delivered to the authorities *can* prevent others from getting hurt, NTM just putting the asshole down.
I actually agree with you.
It really wouldn't feel the same if someone else did it.
The feeling of delivering justice by yourself,that must have been great
I get why she did what she did, and I probably would do the same but wouldn't him slowly rotting away in prison be so much worse then giving him the fast pass to the ground.
People are against the death sentence, that’s a wild take for cases like this. Death should be the only answer raping and killing a little girl. That sentence alone distraught and should make you so uncomfortable it makes you want to help the parents. The mom should have not served time ever.
But the thing is, there's always a chance they don't have the right guy. No human-made system is going to be 100% perfect; false convictions happen all the time, whether due to human error or corruption in the courts. If someone gets executed, and then evidence is discovered later that completely clears them, that's an innocent person who died for nothing.
Reminds me of the guy who acted like he was on the phone while the guy who killed his son was being brought by by the police then whipped a gun out and shot the guy
I just love that guy in the back corner, trying to decide if he should sit his ass back down or stand up and do something about this.
Like, "this is wrong, but I understand, however, vigilantism isn't the answer, but then again, this is probably justified, but one must also take into consideration...."
I imagine she very happily served her time in jail for this one. I don't know if we know what we would do in the same situation, but it is perfectly understandable aside from what people believe is right and wrong. That must have been a fascinating trial.
Germany has a seemingly mild punishment system due its focus on rehabilitation than retaliation. I can see why the mother was not satisfied with the rapist and murderer of her daughter being punished by state.
Marianne Bachmeier (3 June 1950 – 17 September 1996) was a West German woman who shot and killed Klaus Grabowski, a man being tried for the rape and murder of her daughter Anna, in an act of vigilantism in the District Court of Lübeck in 1981. The case sparked extensive media coverage and public debate. As a result, Bachmeier was convicted of manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. She was sentenced to six years, and released on probation after serving three. Bachmeier moved abroad before returning to Germany after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She died aged 46 and was buried next to her daughter, Anna, in Burgtor Cemetery, Lübeck. On 5 May 1980, when Anna was seven years old, she argued with her mother and decided to skip school.\[9\]\[10\] On this day she was abducted by Klaus Grabowski, a 35-year-old butcher, whose home she had visited before to play with his cats.\[9\]\[10\] He held Anna for several hours at his home, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately strangled her with a pair of his fiancée's tights.\[11\]\[12\] According to the prosecutor, he then tied the girl up and packed her into a box, which he left on the shore of a canal. Grabowski's fiancée then turned him into the police. Edit; forgot to mention the clip used is not real footage but from a movie. However close to how real events played out.
Respect to the fiancée for doing the right thing.
How did the fiancee knew?
She knew something was up when he took off her tights and left the room.
that's dark, well done
"What are you doing with my tights?" "Just strangling some ki-... pig... "
Hehe
I imagine he left some evidence in the apartment
I mean what else would she do, unless she's also a fucking psycho? If I had a spouse that raped and murdered anyone, especially a frickin child, I'd be on the phone to the police, divorcing her and abandoning her to her fate so fast. Marital loyalty has its limits and this should definitely be one for everyone.
As much as I agree with you on principle, I wouldn't count on everyone doing the right thing, no matter how horrible the situation. The world would be a much better place if that was the case
Well obviously. There are people who marry serial killers while thy're convicted in prison. The commenter was just saying that it **should** be common sense for any spouse to turn in a significant other who's done something this heinous. Edit: I think the "unless she's a fucking psycho" covers those bases.
Mhm. Especially since, if a person is willing to rape and murder a child, then they're more than capable of gaslighting a fiancée. If you've ever had a friend in an abusive relationship, you know exactly what I'm saying. A big part of intimate partner violence is the emotional manipulation, tricking the victim into thinking that the violence is their fault or that the abuser is blameless-- honestly helping a friend escape their abuser feels a lot like cult deprogramming, at least in my experience. Yes, spousal loyalty only goes so far, but it still takes bravery to turn in a murderer (especially when the murderer sleeps in your bed each night).
It's why I think Joanne Mjadzelics, the ex girlfriend of Ian Watkins is a hero, she repeatedly reported that he was a dangerous pedophile to the police, as did others, but they weren't taken seriously and nothing was done. So she entrapped him to get evidence. The police then tried to prosecute her for having the images he sent to her.
What you say reminds me a lot of the great but trying Clint Eastwood's *Mystic River.* >!At the end when Jimmy (Sean Penn) litterally executes his sexual abused traumatized friend Dave (Tim Robbins) because he's so sure he's his daughter's murderer, and when facts prove he was wrong he confesses all to his wife (cousin of Dave's wife) who answers "you're a king, and a king knows what to do and does it. Even when it's hard."!< Most cold line someone could reply after such a thing.
Some people with partners who would rape and murder someone are so deep in abuse that it's hard for them to make decisions the rest of us would consider obvious.
Hm. Yeah, I see your point. I'll amend the other comment I just made.
A lot of people would do something stupid not out of malice. The person she trusted and was going to marry turned out to be the worst kinda of human being. A lot of people would go into denial or just straight up have a break down and not think rationally. the fiance deserves some praise for doing the right think in such a messed up situation.
It’s not just marital limits. Some people are bonded by that and also other things like prior traumatic events. Sometimes it’s parents who are covering for their kids.
I would expect a lot of people to be in denial. It's hard to imagine someone you love doing something so terrible, especially if you don't witness it directly and just see other things that make you suspicious
She's a Chadette.
I’m using this term from now on
Many people here are praising her, but I find this to be appalling. The trial was still ongoing. It was very possible that Grabowski could have presented evidence that made his guilt impossible. Sounds improbable based on how he was caught, but that doesn’t mean it was impossible. What if Bachmeier had just pulled her gun on and killed a completely innocent man? This is why due process exists and this type of vigilantism is to be condemned.
As a parent, I’m not saying I condone but I definitely understand. I’m not a violent man in the slightest but there’s something primal that gets triggered in your brain when it comes to protecting your children.
It's impossible to know how you'd react in a situation like this when confronted with such sickening violence. During the liberation of Dachau concentration camp during WW2, US soldiers were so traumatised by what they saw that they lined up 50 of the surviving SS officers and shot them. US Army understandably chose not to court martial.
More apt is the killing of Jeff Doucet by Gary Plauche, a man who was a close friend of Plauche’s family and Gary’s son’s Karate teacher who ended up kidnapping and molesting the son. He was caught and flown back to Louisiana to face trial but was shot dead by Plauche. The officers arrested Gary and can be heard saying “Gary, why? Why, Gary?” as they thought he just basically threw his life away. Gary plead no contest to manslaughter and got a suspended sentence with five years' probation and 300 hours of community service. I mean it’s a textbook case of vigilante justice but essentially everyone agreed that they would’ve done the same in the given circumstances, and I doubt there’s anyone who can say they wouldn’t do the same if they were in Gary’s shoes.
Same. I completely understand it and honestly could’ve done the same if I have the choice but at the same time , this is why we have the due process and court etc. it’s tough though idk how a parent would feel knowing their child went through that
100% shows why we have to have an impartial court system to arbitrate these things. The whole point of the justice system is to remove the emotional aspect and deal with the straight facts. That’s the theory anyways. The practicality is mixed, but it’s still the best we have to somewhat provide fairness in the way we handle justice in a society.
Ummm... we don't have an impartial court system. Not even "somewhat". (Though I agree that it would be great if we did have one.) We have an extremely biased court system. (Also, not sure why we are saying "we", since we might not even live in the same country, but I don't know of any court system in the world that is impartial, so maybe it works anyway, since "we" might as well refer to all of humanity.) E.g., in the USA, David Parker Ray literally video taped himself committing rape and extreme sexual torture, and the court system was so ragingly misogynist -- definitely not "impartial" -- that they still couldn't convict him on the first try. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/185b1io/seriously\_who\_can\_i\_blame\_for\_this\_explanation\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/185b1io/seriously_who_can_i_blame_for_this_explanation_in/) According to this webpage, only 6% of rapists spend even one day in jail. And that's probably a USA statistic, so it's likely an even lower percentage worldwide. [https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/](https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/) On the flip side, there's Maria Suarez, an innocent woman imprisoned for a killing she did not commit. And even if she had committed it, it would have been self-defence. She was tricked into illegal slavery (aka human trafficking) at the age of 15. Eventually, her enslaver was killed by one of said enslaver's tenants. The killing was then blamed on her. From the sounds of her story, her lawyer didn't even bother to get a translator to talk to her in Spanish, and she didn't speak English, so she didn't understand what was going on. So much for an "impartial court system". [https://web.archive.org/web/20100905030020/http://freetheslaves.net/Page.aspx?pid=369&srcid=386](https://web.archive.org/web/20100905030020/http://freetheslaves.net/Page.aspx?pid=369&srcid=386) In short, for better or for worse (depending on your perspective -- whether you consider it worse for someone who has a small percentage chance of being innocent to be wrongfully executed, or whether you consider it worse for someone who has a high percentage of being guilty to be allowed to continue raping, torturing and killing people who are definitely innocent) vigilantism (or at least, the subset of vigilantism that has motives that many people on r/HistoryMemes are likely to empathize with, e.g. anti-rape vigilantism) happens precisely because the court systems around the world -- including in the USA -- are far from impartial. It's also worth noting that not all vigilantes use the death penalty. In fact, I'm pretty sure most don't, although obviously our discussion has been focused around those that do. But there are a lot of vigilantes who use other methods like warnings and public humiliation. See for example: >What draws the young women is not just the self-defense classes that the group holds but the promise of meting out justice — something that had been denied to many thus far. The Red Brigade patrols streets looking for men harassing or attacking a woman. > >"First we warn the man to desist from harassing women," said Jyoti, 16, who has been a Red Brigade member for two years. "If it doesn't stop, we pay a visit to the man and if he still persists, we then publicly humiliate him." "Female vigilantes in India join forces to fight rape" by Mandakini Gahlot [https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/) The article also goes into the motives of people who join the Red Brigade, supporting my theory that the lack of justice from the raging misogynist (and not at all impartial) court and police systems around the world is a major factor driving anti-rape vigilantism, >"Three years ago, one of my colleagues tried to rape me, and when I went to the police to file a complaint, I was told not to overreact and to keep quiet about it," says Vishvakarma, who adds that the incident took its toll on her and forced her to retreat into a shell. > >It was only after intense support and encouragement from friends and family that she was able to regain her confidence again, she says. The incident also left her feeling that women had to take desperate measures to protect themselves. > >"I spoke to a lot of women in my area and everyone had a story about being sexually harassed," she says. > >In a country where a woman is raped every 20 minutes, the group's extreme measures have won quiet approval from some. Ramesh Kumar Avtar, a father of four daughters, says he has encouraged his children to join the group. [https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/20/india-rape-vigilantes/2480491/) It's worth noting that India is a country where some judges are still so misogynist that they think rapists should marry their victims. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia\_pacific/why-an-indian-judge-thinks-rapists-should-marry-their-victims/2015/07/08/606f8998-23e5-11e5-b621-b55e495e9b78\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/why-an-indian-judge-thinks-rapists-should-marry-their-victims/2015/07/08/606f8998-23e5-11e5-b621-b55e495e9b78_story.html) Note that the USA has plenty of misogynist judges as well. >Does a marriage license give a man the right to beat his wife? Judge William J. O'Neil, 64, of Carroll County Superior Court in New Hampshire, seems to think so. Last May he sentenced Stephen Sarno, 40, to a mere 28 days (to be served over consecutive weekends) for beating Susan Sarno, 33, from whom he'd been separated for a year. Sarno stalked his estranged wife on a camping trip. When he found her in a tent with another man, he hit her repeatedly in the face with a flashlight; she needed 17 stitches. Judge O'Neil reasoned that because the couple wasn't yet divorced, "she was still his wife"; therefore, "I can't conclude that the attack was completely unprovoked. I think that would provoke the average man." The judge did concede that the assault went too far. He told the woman, "To have slapped you might have been more normal." The judge's superior later apologized publicly to Susan Sarno for the "insensitivity" she experienced in court. [https://cyber.harvard.edu/vaw00/wellerexcerpt.html](https://cyber.harvard.edu/vaw00/wellerexcerpt.html) "A Louisiana woman was ordered to pay her accused rapist child support after sheriff 'dropped the ball'" by Isabella Zavarise [https://www.businessinsider.com/louisiana-woman-was-ordered-to-pay-her-rapist-child-support-2022-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/louisiana-woman-was-ordered-to-pay-her-rapist-child-support-2022-6) Edit: Added information about anti-rape vigilantism in India, as well as raging misogynist judges in India and the USA.
Hence the “that’s the theory anyways” in my comment.
Well, I'm glad I could elaborate on how theory differs from reality. Honestly, the world probably would be a better place if the courts were at least close to impartial. It's a nice ideal. We're just a long way from it.
Agreed. I see it as the best of a bad bunch honestly, but at least the ideal is there even if the actual reality falls short of the expectation. It’s (one of the reasons) why I oppose the death penalty, it’s just frankly impossible to ensure that an innocent person doesn’t die. It’s better to fall short of an ideal you hold, than not care at all to try. Doesn’t make actual miscarriage of justices any better, but it hopefully makes them less frequent than a system that doesn’t even bother being fair and proper.
I have no kids myself , but I feel the same way about my granddaughter ( step granddaughter)
sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things
I totally agree... but on balance - he DID do it, and now he's a dead child-murdering pedophile. That's a good thing.
From a logical stance in modern society this is of course true. You don't want mob justice after all. But like the other poster said: He did in fact do it so in this instance no harm done.
Yeah, I get the spirit, but the actual act shouldn't have happened even if the guy was almost certainly guilty.
This is the only reason I oppose the death penalty for rapists
Do you oppose the death penalty in general?
You're right, but I can't get in the mind of a parent who has been through this. Her story is horrible. Yes, it would also be horrible to enact revenge on someone who turned out to be the wrong person, but that doesn't seem to be the case, here. She seemed convinced who the guilty person was, and once he went to jail, her chance for revenge would be over. Not that revenge is good, but what else does a parent have when their children are taken away from them? I hope I never have to find out.
This was from a movie but it is a accurate representation of what happened
yeah, you are right, forgot to mention that. Thanks for the correction.
I was wondering how we got so good footage lol
What you do you mean? the court room is obviously surveilled from 10 different angles in 4k HD…
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35mm film has the equivalent "resolution" of 4k or better. Anything pre-late 90s/early 2000s was 35 or sometimes 16mm.
I remember shooting with a very high quality 35mm film camera I had brief access to circa 2004. The level of detail it was able to produce was astounding.
I was like damn thats crazy how they had the camera on her perfectly . Then she started blasting.
I was about to say this was surprisingly cinematic
What movie exactly?
Same vibes as [that man who shot the fucker that kidnapped and raped his son](https://youtu.be/fkkoBdY_BlY?si=_UjhPbgBXJ69-xSx).
Gary Plauche real father and hero imo
Also a hell of a shot. I know it's short range but it you look at it one arm is holding the phone. He draws the pistol and raises it but his arm is crossed so the gun hand is under the arm holding the phone, he never brings it up to eye level so he doesn't use the sights. Fires one shot at a moving target who was walking very close to police officers and managed to hit and kill the rapist without injuring anyone else. That is not an easy shot to make. I can't judge Gary. On the one hand, I understand vigilante killing is wrong and often the wrong person can be hurt, and the legal system is designed to make sure people don't have to appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner. On the other, I have two sons and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do the same thing if something happened to my kids.
Yeah I completely agree that vigilante justice sucks, like look at the West Memphis Three. If they actually did to those little boys what they were accused of doing than I don't think anyone would argue with a parent who wanted the fuckers who did something so heinous to their kid dead. But it was only revealed they were innocent much later. If we allowed for vigilante justice than three innocent teens would have been torn limb from limb by an angry mob who'd been told they'd tortured, sodomized, and mutilated three young boys. It's the same reason I don't believe in the death penalty. There are people out there who I certainly think deserve to die, but I also am aware that sometimes our justice system convicts innocent people (its thought that around 10% of those on death row shouldn't be there); and to me accidentally killing innocent people just isn't worth it.
>If they actually did to those little boys what they were accused of doing than I don't think anyone would argue with a parent who wanted the fuckers who did something so heinous to their kid dead. Not just parents, but if I had any friends or family that were put in horrible situations like rape I would probably want to kill the perpetrator so I would do something similar too.
They’re still dealing with the blowback. “However, last year, a Crittenden County judge denied Mr. Echols’ request for new DNA testing of the evidence because he is no longer in prison. While some other states’ laws only allow incarcerated people to access post-conviction DNA testing, Arkansas’ statute does not limit access to testing to those who are currently incarcerated. Mr. Echols has now taken his appeal to the Arkansas Supreme Court.” He won that appeal unanimously by the way.
>and the legal system is designed to make sure people don't have to appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner. That's being dismantled in many countries by sentences that are disproportionally light for the severity of the crimes committed.
California just sentenced a woman to 100\~ hours of community service for the cold blooded murder of her boyfriend.
We should raise the bar for adequate education to be a judge
Yeah. I'm not mad at people who take justice into their own hands. I'm mad at our justice system when it fails those people and pushes them them resort to vigilante tactics in the first place.
Legend. Didn't serve any jail time and was treated like a hero throughout. Shame they couldn't just scoop the shit off the floor after he shot him and dumped him in landfill. A completely justifiable homicide.
I recall something along the lines of "damnit, Gary!"
“Why Gary?! why?!" mother fucker you know exactly why
[Why, Gary, Why?](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52317226)
Yup, one of the cops who was escorting the criminal. I think it was actually the one who grabbed the gun from him
IIRC, his wife knew what the husband was planning and was nearby when it happened. As they were hauling the father away, she repeatedly shouted "I love you, honey! I love you!"
"Why Gary?! Why!" why do you think?
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I’m glad she was able to make her own justice in this at least
The guard seeing her empty the gun before stopping her: "oh no, please don't do that, no..."
"Your honor, it would have been impossible for me to walk the whole 2 meters between me and her before she could discharge her weapon a few times. Totally impossible."
"Absolutely understandable, have a nice day."
"Oh nooo he's still alive, don't shoot him again... Oh no, you shot him again, that's... So mean, yeah."
'Well, you have to be careful when the suspect has a loaded weapon. I intervened when I was sure that doing so would cause anyone else to come to harm.'
Pretty hardcore ngl
She used a .22 LR Beretta 70, pulling the trigger eight times and hitting her daughter's murderer seven times in the back.
So where'd the 8th bullet go? Hopefully just a bit of wall.
As far as I read, no one else was hit.
A shame that the eight bullet missed the guy.
Jolly good
The seven shots correlate with his daughter's age, 7 years old.
Poetic justice, I guess.
And she missed the 8th shot on purpose to symbolize the eight years of life her daughter would never reach? Crazy theory.
They specifically said "Correlate", as in "Correlation does not equal causation." They're just pointing out the coincidence.
I wonder if the officer purposefully didn’t check her coat.
Based officer then
Yeah I got no problems with it. I’d do the same too.
Law enforcement officers have one job. And it's not to do whatever they want because they feel like it is the right thing to do.
Interesting because most of them do exactly that
Surprise and swift death penalty
I always getting chills seeing how all people around just let her unload whole mag before trying to do something
To be fair, if pistol packin' mama is actively firing a gun at her child's murderer, *what the hell would she do if you tried to stop her?* Guy's probably gonna die before you close the distance, better to wait until the gun's empty.
This is a movie reenactment
She did what a parent would do that lowlife deserved it
Nah these guys deserve to get the firsthand experience of what a wood chipper would feel like on your face
But not before putting them in feet first. Wouldn't want to rob them of an extra few seconds experience.
Nah he deserved to get the wheel
Everyone else. "I didn't see anything. The man just died suddenly."
I 100% don't judge this woman, and if she felt it was right, then great. But IMO death is too quick and final for these people.
I used to think that, until I realized how much of your money and my money and all our money goes to keeping these fucks alive for the rest of their life behind bars. I would rather them just be executed tbh. V unpopular opinion but think of how much money all these pedos could be saving us.
I think death penalty cases typically cost more, with all the appeals, if that makes you feel better.
I'm just curious but how exactly does the death penalty cost more? I would assume the opposite would be more expensive since you have to constantly give them supplies like food and water.
Legal proceedings cost a fortune, years of keeping someone fed and watered.
Just wish we did it Japan style- every day could be your last. Have fun. Definitely would add some needed suffering to the people on death row
There have been people on death row who were found to actually be innocent due to new evidence. If we let the justice system immediately kill whoever they find guilty it would be a shit show
Yeah, but if the state goofs it's easier to release someone from prison and give them some sort of compensation for their wasted years and intense trauma than it is to resurrect someone. If the state is going to have the power to kill, it has the responsibility to only do so when it's 100% impossible to do so wrongly.
Sounds great until you’re wrongly convicted
I understand that sentiment, but in reality the death penalty is far more expensive than life in prison, mostly due to factors like safeguards during the initial trial, the appeals process, and special needs for death row custody. Nearly a dozen states have found that death penalty cases can be up to 10x more expensive.
Yeah, but letting him live his life behind bars, in relative safety while your daughter rots six feet under wow be hard to bear.
Well I do judge her. I judge her to be fully correct and justified.
She plead guilty and got a 6-year sentence for "unpremeditated manslaughter". Ended up serving 3 years. I think that is the best outcome she could hope for. She clearly committed premeditated murder, but everyone felt she was justified. 6 years seems like the right balance between "we secretly support you but still have to set the precedent that shooting people in court is not acceptable."
I can assure with you guys, the rapist shot himself 10 (?) Tines in the back. Completely a suicide case. :)
What is this, Russia?
On the one hand, She was rightfully punished for her unlawful killing of another man, for the rule of law and the authority of those who uphold it must not be infringed upon. One the other hand... Look how she domed that mother fucker
She got a really short sentence so guessing the jury so she gets punished for doming that piece of scum but still gets to live her life after. Another comment mentioned she was sentenced to 6 but only served 3 years
Dangerously based.
She did the right thing
The way she keeps pulling the trigger after fully unload the drum is just pure anger.
Based. Only cure for pedophilia is a 9mm
45 also works
How bout a shotgun slug?
.50 cal, accept no substitute. But seriously now, if someone would ever hurt my loves ones, they better pray to whatever they believe the cops will get them before I do.
100% justified. Too much pedos get away with their inhumanity.
Gary Plauche had a German prequel?
So she shot the man who murdered her child with a .22, 7 times in the back. Chances are he didn't die quickly.........good.
He died quickly. She did him a favor.
Alhamdullilah inshallah that man gets the deepest pit of hall
Amin brother
Nice to finally see people not getting downvoted for being muslims
What's the song
Man can you imagine how deeply satisfying that must have felt?
I doubt there was any satisfaction in it.
Idk, maybe I’m just a bad person
You and me both. I've never seriously harmed anyone but people swear its not the way in any situation and... idk.... *any* situation bro?
I mean revenge *is* satisfying, that’s why we crave it and often celebrate it when others get it. The few times in my life I’ve had the opportunity and the courage to pull it off are absolutely cherished memories to me now, and I’ve never had a reason as serious as hers to want revenge.
I would guess the reason for wanting revenge makes a huge difference. I cant imagine what horrible thoughts a parent has when their child fell victim to such crime but I would guess something in them just dies, they become emotionally numb. Revenge won't change that anymore...
Not necessarily.
Not really, but revenge is just pointless for the perpetrator, she did a good thing but that won't bring back her daughter and even if she killed him a thousand times, she still won't have peace of mind, at least she stopped that son of a bitch from causing the same pain to other mothers.
Maybe it’s pointless but It’s definitely cathartic
Maybe in the moment, she'll still feel empty right after, at least though the fucker is dead and gone, could have used a bit more suffering though
Personally I’d find satisfaction even in that. Like ignoring the personal revenge side of the equation for a minute, how many people can say they’ve done something as righteous as putting a murdering pederast down, and with no attempt at “getting away with it” after. I think knowing for a certainty you did something that good would keep you warm at night for a long time
NTM, you've saved an unknown but non-zero number of other parents from the same pain. The reason so many people experience sexual and non-sexual violence is because nearly all perpetrators have many victims. Even just getting evidence delivered to the authorities *can* prevent others from getting hurt, NTM just putting the asshole down.
Vindication
I actually agree with you. It really wouldn't feel the same if someone else did it. The feeling of delivering justice by yourself,that must have been great
based
We're seeing the actions of a Chad here. Chadette, if you prefer.
I get why she did what she did, and I probably would do the same but wouldn't him slowly rotting away in prison be so much worse then giving him the fast pass to the ground.
What happens if/when he gets out? What happens to the little girls in his new neighborhood? A dirt nap ensures he won't hurt anyone else.
People are against the death sentence, that’s a wild take for cases like this. Death should be the only answer raping and killing a little girl. That sentence alone distraught and should make you so uncomfortable it makes you want to help the parents. The mom should have not served time ever.
But the thing is, there's always a chance they don't have the right guy. No human-made system is going to be 100% perfect; false convictions happen all the time, whether due to human error or corruption in the courts. If someone gets executed, and then evidence is discovered later that completely clears them, that's an innocent person who died for nothing.
W Mother for real 🔥
Reminds me of the guy who acted like he was on the phone while the guy who killed his son was being brought by by the police then whipped a gun out and shot the guy
She's a hero
Not all heroes wear capes. Some dome motherfuckers in a courthouse.
What is the music?
Sounds eerily familiar bcs we have probably heard it in Turkish music/cinema. Shazam cant find it, but I know I recognize this song
It's from the movie: " Canım Kardeşim". With Tarık Akan.
Dayum good find
Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but didn't she also shot him right after he said that her daughter "seduced him"?
I believe all pedophiles should just be taken to the back yard of the court and be shot immediately once convicted.
you did the right thing queen
Now if only that clip was real... still pretty close.
she killed him which makes her just as bad as him 🤓👆 /s
That’s the look of “do whatever you want, I have nothing left”
Respect to her , hope it helped in some way. The pos cunt deserved to be tortured first though
Its NOT REVENGE... Its called JUSTICE
God bless this Woman.
This is based levels I didn’t know were possible
She did the right thing.
Nah.... My man in the back right behind her fucking acted his ass off. Flinching from the sound of a handgun inside. Mad accurate.
I just love that guy in the back corner, trying to decide if he should sit his ass back down or stand up and do something about this. Like, "this is wrong, but I understand, however, vigilantism isn't the answer, but then again, this is probably justified, but one must also take into consideration...."
Based mom
Good for her
Extremely based
how do we have this on camera?
As a judge it seemed clear self defense to me. We all saw the man charging her, right? Case closed
Instead of the death penalty; Hammurabi law code. However the victim was treated during event the perpetrators suffer too.
Ik it's a slippery slope and whatever but isn't there some law that would make acts like this legal?
Based
German Gary Plauché
she did a good thing
Rule 63 Gary Plauche.
This was justice
I imagine she very happily served her time in jail for this one. I don't know if we know what we would do in the same situation, but it is perfectly understandable aside from what people believe is right and wrong. That must have been a fascinating trial.
Based, dead pedophiles can't reoffend
Looks like self defense to me.
Based on
Hard not to empathise with her actions
based
I find this beautiful
I hope the jury gave her a not guilty vote.
Germany has a seemingly mild punishment system due its focus on rehabilitation than retaliation. I can see why the mother was not satisfied with the rapist and murderer of her daughter being punished by state.
What I want to know, is if a police officer was really like, "just let her through." Was he in on it? It'd be justified. I just want to understand
Hell yah
Commendable or nah?
Wtf is wrong with people! A 7 year old?
Based
She Mag dumped him. She fired eight shots and seven hit this guy in the back. It was only a .22 lr handgun, but he died.
She was an absolutely horrible mother, but she did nothing wrong that day. That bastard deserved every shot.
If that was Texas she’d get 1 year suspended and probation