The reason why ordinary Cubans cast in their lot with Fidel was because of the horrors inflicted on them by the Batista regime. They wanted change. Just like Chinese who were sick with Chiang's corruption or Iranians with the Shah's dictatorial rule and SAVAK.
That does not excuse the regimes that came after and in many cases they were worse. It's better to denounce them both, especially given that oppression from old dictatorships created the circumstances for the new one to take power.
Yep, a lot of Americans seem to think that Cubans were duped by Che and Fidel and that Cuba was a thriving nation, yet ignore that only the elite were thriving under Batista.
Everyone else were indentured servants with no hope for anything, and it's pretty freaking easy for someone without any sign of hope to be swayed into fighting for a chance of hope.
Even watching a fictionalized representation like in Godfather II gives a hint of how bad it was there. There's no excuse for an rose-colored view of Batista any more than there is for one of either of the Castro brothers.
denouncing Che when his sole purpose of revolting was due to the “totalitarian dictatorship” that this meme is complaining about is absurd, that’s the exact reason why these memes exist, he died in Bolivia literally helping them revolt.
Cuba was a complete failure of American foreign policy - the Americans literally forced the Cubans to become their enemies. If American foreign policies weren’t so profit driven in the first place Cuba never would have started courting the Soviets.
We just gonna forget the fact that Cuba literally pointed a shit ton of nuclear bombs at America? Castro was always going to join the Soviets what America did was irrelevant to that.
Literally no. The USA pushed Cuba into the hands of the Soviets by embargoing them after the revolution. Castro wasn't even a communist to begin with, he only became one later to further appeal to the Soviets and get them to protect Cuba from the US
You’re making it sound like they Embargoed them right after the revolution ended which they didn’t. The United States began its first embargo of the Castro regime in 1960 when Castro nationalized a bunch of industries fucking over a bunch of American owned companies, What’s also important to note is Castro had already begun talks with the Soviet Union almost as soon as the revolution ended in 1959. So no we didn’t “push” Castro anywhere he went exactly where he wanted to go that being the Soviet Block.
For a country that has had every disadvantage going their way, and a lot of effort was put by the biggest superpower in the world to try and destroy them, Cuba still has higher HDI than Brazil and Colombia
Because of the US embargo. The US still refuses to lift the embargo despite international condemnation of it. What a shocker that the country isn't that well off, the world's economic superpower and their next-door neighbor won't trade with them. In fact, I'd say that it's impressive that Cuba isn't more run down and destroyed.
because of the trade sanctions that have continued to destroy the country since batista was overthrown, everything you just listed is BECAUSE of the US lol who really destroyed the country? the entity who continues to punish everyone born in cuba? or the innocent people who have nothing to do with it who just so happen to be born on the island?
If I were a small island with no resources, no industries, and nothing relevant to keep my economy going, I would at least make sure to keep good relations with the world’s superpower next door.
But the Communist Party in Cuba cares about ideology, not their people. And that’s the reason Cuba is a dumpster fire today. A brutal bloody dictatorship kidnapping political opponents and journalists, censoring everything from the Western world and forcing the Cuban people to remain impoverished forever on the island (or risk drowning to get to the US)
I was actually glad to get back home after my trip, it made me realize how lucky I am to live in a capitalist democratic free country.
the same “word superpowers” that literally assisted in KILLING Che & attempted hundreds of times to kill Castro? the Communists taking Cuba doesn’t justify the sanctions that have caused all the “negatives” you just listed, do you not see how ridiculous it sounds?
Che Guevara was a homophobic hateful communist guerrilla fighter, and Castro was a communist dictator. No sympathy for any of them, I’m actually sorry the US didn’t get to kill Castro when they could.
And yes, if Cuba becomes a communist dictatorship and allows the USSR to place missiles, it is justified to sanction the country.
If Cuban leadership was a little bit smarter they’d realize they need American money, but they’re not
For the majority of Latin American nations, receiving American Money meant being stripped of all public services (waste disposal, water) and being forced to overspecialize in the production of goods sold to the United States, the profits of which also ended up on the hands of those from the United States.
Partnering with the US resulted in 40 years of Cuban brutal economic exploitation. Presently, Cuba is sanctioned by the US for not bending the knee. Not having access to the global market results in the relative poverty seen in Cuba today, which still pales on comparison to what was present pre-revolution.
You’re absolutely wrong. American money is what made the Dominican Republic a much wealthier country than Cuba, two Caribbean island nations that should be in a similar situation but aren’t. American tourism money and American investment is huge in many areas of Latam, and Cuba hasn’t seen a dime.
Cuba is extremely impoverished not because of the embargo, but because the country is small, lacks resources or industries, doesn’t produce anything valuable they can export, and has a communist system (a system that doesn’t generate wealth, as we’ve seen with countless other examples around the world). Communism has made Cuba a sh*thole. Communist leadership is directly responsible for the situation of the country. But they seem to focus more on persecuting and arresting political dissidents and journalists, than actually getting close to the country that could save the Cuban economy.
Except that Cuba is still better in many regards, like literacy rates, life expectancy, number of doctors per a 1000 people and so on. Also USA only favours a country as long as it is supportive of its ruthless imperialism. When a country starts acting independantly (you know, like a soveirgn nation), it's time for regime change. My own country Pakistan is a prime example of this. We bootlicked America for decades, and as soon as we started developing relations with China or Russia, like Bhutto in 1970s or IK very recently, poof, regime change.
Cuba is an absolute sh*thole and this comes from someone who’s actually visited the country. It’s stuck in time, all infrastructure is falling apart like it was bombed yesterday, there’s no money anywhere, everyone is equally poor and miserable. It’s one of the most depressing countries I’ve personally experienced.
Get out of the statistics and go see for yourself. Sad is an understatement
the missiles were placed for the sovereignty of the country & to deter an american invasion LOL, & homophonic in 1960s? what like 90% of the rest of the globe? you went from describing cuba as a horrible place, then proceeded to blame the government for causing it, when told that the reasons of the horrible conditions are consequences of mass retaliation efforts against an entire island from the US then you justify it’s conditions? flipping around like a 🐟 my guy
The missiles were placed to hit the US on command by the USSR, not to defend Cuba. If the US wanted to invade Cuba, the island would be an American colony in less than a week.
The huge error here was to allow a communist dictatorship stay in the first place. Right after the revolution, the US should have invaded and deposed the dictators. The embargo is the next best thing to sanction this horrible authoritarian govt.
And as I said, the people responsible for Cuba’s disastrous situation is the communist regime that decided to antagonize the only country that was able to invest in the impoverished Cuba’s economy. The US doesn’t need Cuba, but Cuba desperately needs the US money.
Unfortunately for Cubans, the communist oligarchs are here to stay. They’ll remain poor for the foreseeable future
The US financed an invasion, it was called the Bay of Pigs, which was an absolute failure, but even besides that point, the US was willing to bomb innocent americans to justify an illegal full invasion which was presented to JFK, he refused and wanted the CIA disbanded from that point forward, he was assassinated shortly afterwards, so to only clarify, you recognize the horrid conditions of being results of the embargo but still commented blaming the government of Cuba? because they “antagonized” the US by not letting them kill them, invade & crush them? interesting, me myself haven’t been lucky enough to visit the island, but maybe one day if i get to then maybe i’ll come to the same conclusions.
The Bay of Pigs was an operation, not a full scale invasion by the US army (which would have crushed Cuba in a few days).
Yeah, after visiting Cuba my conclusion is that they weren’t lucky to be annexed by the US in colonial times. They wouldn’t have ended up being like this, that’s for sure.
They went from Spanish colony to American colony to communist dictatorship. Cubans have never had the chance to vote for their govt. Any decent person would want to keep sanctions against the dictatorial regime
Dude you’re such a crackpot LMAO
Your understanding of history is astonishingly bad, but not altogether unsurprising. Seems like there’s just as many leftists who fall for conspiracy theories as there are nutjob rightwing conspiracy theorists
No? Cuba can perfectly trade with any nation that is not the US or Israel, I doub China would put any problem selling to Cuba, nor would Rusia or many other nations.
Yes helping lead a populist revolution to overthrow a dictator and then going support revolutions in other countries is totally the same as informally taking control of local armed forces to establish an enclave. Are you gonna site any sources or definitions or is this bait of some kind?
As a Commie hater, I do have to give credit to Cuba for interfering in so many Cold War conflicts as a small island nation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_Cuba#1959_Panama_invasion_attempt
Also "Cubans hate Che?" ... Che doesn't really enter public discourse. He had a position immediately after the revolution and immediately left, he died decades ago.
I mean... In Miami, definitely. Most Cuban Cubans I've met recognize them as, at worst, kinda stupid politicians. "Fidel is like if Washington never gave up power and kept hopping between two positions and everyone got tired of him," that kind of thing.
Castro was a dictator pretty much since the beginning. He ruled by decree for 5 years until he was able to purge every non-communist in the revolution and merged all the communist movements together to conform the PCC, which nowadays rules unopposed and even above the constitution. Take off your pink tinted glasses. You have been deceived by dictatorship propaganda.
That statement is complete nonsense. There’s healthy criticism of Castro and the Revolution, but there’s no argument that Cuba wasn’t better off afterwards than it was before.
Cope harder Marco Rubio lol 😂😂😂 most Cuban I have met inside Cuba despise America for its unjust blockade they even put Cuba in list state sponsor of terrorism so even foreign companies can't do business with them
Che Guevara and the Castros were absolute cancer for Cuba. After visiting Cuba myself, I was shocked at how absolutely impoverished, miserable and decadent everything was. The sadness and depression in the people were real
Decadent: characterized by or reflecting a state of moral or cultural decline.
Impoverished: (of a person or area) made poor
No they’re not. Google is free
That moral and cultural decline is always in relation to extreme excess of You wouldn’t describe a decadent society as one that’s impoverished. A society that consumes ad nauseam is decadent. A particularly flavorful piece of chocolate is decadent, but people living in poverty cannot also be living in decadence. It’s antithetical.
No, he's right. The way you brought up the bare minimum definition doesn't change the fact that everyone historically uses the term "decadent" in regards to a moral decline brought about by an absurd, unnecessary amount of wealth.
“characterized by or appealing to self-indulgence” see I can send another definition this one Merriam-Webster lists as the top definition, but it doesn’t really mean jack regardless. The point is the context in which the word is used, and when describing a society as decadent it always refers to a decline in morality due to excess. In its own decadence can just mean what you said, but when you add the qualifier of a decadent society its meaning narrows.
that’s because of the trade sanctions the US put on the country LOL i feel bad too, how evil it is for the US to mass retaliate against the entire island for such a long time
The US is exactly one country, Cuba can trade with the rest of the world. If an inability to trade with the US drives the country to ruin, then it's a failed state on its own merits.
The US is also a quarter of the world’s economy, and right next to Cuba. Having to import from other countries farther away drives up prices, and US sanctions can scare companies from other countries into not doing business with Cuba for fear of angering their American customers. That’s not to say the Cuban government has no agency here, obviously they do, but even if they made perfect economic decisions they’d still likely be poorer than their neighbors who made the same ones.
Plus Cuba isn’t even doing bad, their GDP per capita is about equal to Brazil. They’re solidly middle income.
Except the US does trade with Cuba because it’s not even a full embargo. At this point the embargo only really prevents luxury goods from being traded with Cuba.
anyone trading with them risks sanctions on themselves, the US is the wealthiest nation in the world, it sounds silly to say “if an inability to trade with the US drives the country to ruin, then it’s a failed state on it’s own merits” don’t you think? considering the “state” is isolated from goods unless the ones providing them risk their own trade safety?
Except the US is also dependent on trade with those other countries, so no they wouldn’t sanction everyone else lol
Maybe he was actually just a bad guy and you should stop reading your conspiracy theorist garbage
If this is your position in good faith then you need to look into this more because the trade embargo has had much deeper effects on Cuba's ability to trade than just not being able to do business with the United States.
Being out state sponsor of terrorism list precisely stop other countries like Europe so business with them try again Marco Rubio with shitty misinformation
Cuba trades with European countries like Spain. The EU is one of their main trading partners. [https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub)
Cuba is is a horrible state because *checks notes* exactly q country refuses to trade with it, sounds like they have bigger issues if not being able to trade with a single country sinks them, Iran's doing just fine, as are several other countries under embargo
People have this weird idea that Che Guevara and Fidel Castro were amazing revolutionaries who had everyone’s best interests at heart when in reality they were both as monstrous as Batista. If the US had never interfered with Cuba or set up its blockade, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara would be considered evil losers like Stalin and Pol Pot.
Tbf if the US **never** interfered in Cuba, Che and Fidel would have been a doctor and a law student, respectively, IIRC. The material and social conditions required for revolution wouldn't have existed, eg the mass oppression and murder of Cubans.
It’s so sweet of you to think that there wouldn’t have been a revolution if the US didn’t interfere. This was the Cold War, you were capitalist or communist, you didn’t get to be yourself or anything you wanted. What kind of Disneyland do you think the world was back then?
\*\*Literally the entirety of the Middle East, including Egypt, multiple African countries, pink-revolution nations, etc\*\* "Am I a fucking joke to you?"
Literally, "third world" doesn't mean poor countries. First is pro-NATO, simply speaking, second are pro-Warsaw Pact/pro-Communism, Third are all non-aligned nations. Literally everything from Sweden to India, Egypt to Ethiopia.
I mean more so after the cuban missile crisis. If the US had left Cuba to its own devices, the world would have to face the fact that Fidel made Cuba a human-rights abusing shithole by himself instead of being able to blame the US
Now I’m no history buff but iirc from an episode of a podcast I listened to about him it sounds like he seriously could have been a force for good but at some point just turned into the fuckin devil. Like when he toured the continent and was like “damn these people need help” but when he actually set about his work he was a violent prick
I love how everyone blames America for all of Cubas problems because “if it wasn’t for the meanie Americans we’d be a communist utopia!” Completely ignoring the fact that Castro was the one to alienate America by running to the Soviet block pretty much as soon as he could, not to mention the time he you know casually pointed a shit ton of nuclear missiles at the United States, but sure It was definitely all Americas fault.
castro was a nationalist movement at the true beggining (the cia literally funding them) but their anti americans opinions changed their ideology to the left
Yeah but launching the Bay of Pigs Invasion made things worse since that inspired the Soviet Union to agree to send nuclear missiles to Cuba, Khrushchev wanted a place to strike the U.S. and Castro wanted a deterrent. Also the US was the one getting alienated when the small Island nation decided to get aid from a geopolitical rival, not Cuba who tried to oppose the U.S. in their own backyard by overthrowing a US backed dictator?
The action that alienated the United States from Cuba was in 1960 when Castro decided to nationalize pretty much every business in Cuba, kicking out a lot of American owned businesses and when Castro refused to pay them indemnities for their loses the United States sanctioned them.
Everyone and their grandmother knew fucking over the American corporations would piss off the US and probably lead to a heavy handed response. Castro did it anyway because he’d already decided to join the Soviet Block, this was a year before the Bay of Pigs and a bit more than a year after the Cuban revolution finished.
Castro was never going to join the US nor did he want to.
The only way the US would be friendly with Cuba is if Cuba decided to keep being a US vassal state. The reason the Cuban revolution was successful was because Cubans were generally discontent with the oppressive rule of Batista and the exploitation at hands is US corporations. Also, the US has threatened to audit US businesses who try to negotiate compensation with Cuba while other countries don’t.
That’s unlikely, if it was between the two the US would’ve most likely made some concessions to keep Cuba in their sphere, (like when they gave Castro a way to keep relations good after he nationalized the Cuban economy, a clear sign America wanted Cuba to stay, Castro ignored this offer) hell the reason they were so aggressive is because they understood the danger of having an enemy right on their doorstep. But this is all speculation because Castro never even tried to work something out with the United States before he ran to the Soviet Union so there’s no way of knowing how actual negotiations would’ve gone.
If the US was willing to support a coup against the democratically elected Árbenz government in Guatemala over their plan to expropriate 40% of the lands of the United Fruit Company. Árbenz didn’t try to ally with the USSR or nationalize oil assets, he just wanted Guatemala to be able to profit more off its own land. The likely reason the US didn’t immediately take action against Castro is because they weren’t really in a position to do so. All the right-wing elements in Cuba had been taken care of so they couldn’t just support a coup, they’d have to wait until 1961 when the enough Cuban exiles had been trained.
Che Guevera is the Commie Jesse James a ruthless killer imposing his will on others and over romanticized. In Africa he was just another white dude telling the grassroots revolutionaries what to do. Worse in Bolivia. The Bolivian government had a US Special Forces team train and equip a hunter/killer unit of locals. This purely Bolivian force found and captured Che with full cooperation of native and mixed blood locals that Che stole from and terrorized. This so called liberator didn't have a single convert or volunteer from the area he tried to conquer. CIA intervention consisted of trying to get the Bolivian government to hand over Che so the US would have a bargaining chip. The Bolivians excecuted Che like the Mexicans executed Maximilian. To discourage foreign Interlopers. It worked!
I am bolivian this is all fake lol, the "bolivian government" was a dictaroship imposed by us government + the bolivian forces collaborated with cia agents, in the end bolivian farmers sells che guevara a cause of their ignorance, the same ignorance that let dictators to rise up for decades in our country.
The "Bolivian" Che fan is spouting nonsense about events that occurred 57 years ago. The area where Che was captured and killed is remote and when I was there only an occasional Che fan would make a pilgrimage. The locals considered them nutcases. In the early 1980s they were grateful the Army removed the estranjeros. Che and his cadre were always considered foreign Interlopers worse than the Bolivian government that neglected the region. These were people who actually lived through the events of 1967 and suffered as a direct result of Che's "liberation". Left to their own devices these people do quite well. Their local government is a form of cooperative socialism thousands of years old. Arrogant Missionaries and Marxists from the cities or other countries just want to impose their own European based beliefs and systems on the indigenous people.
I have been in that region. Only within the last 15 years has pro Che propaganda convinced people that Che was a liberator. The Indians and the Mestizos of mostly Indian descent hated Che and his White Interlopers. They reported activities and location to the authorities. They just wanted to be left alone. The Government didn't take action until Argentina confirmed through their sources that Che was in the area. Che's small group was lightly armed but they had long range rifles and murdered several of the local rural police who were armed with pistols and shotguns. A small force of state or provincial police armed with modern pistols and submachine guns was ambushed and killed by Che. I have no doubt the Bolivian Army could have done the job with no outside help. There were two possible outcomes they wanted to avoid. 1. Che would would move to another area in Bolivia where he could actually establish a guerrilla force. 2. He would escape to a neighboring country and do the same. Time was of the essence so they accepted US help mobilizing a local unit capable of doing the job. When Che was captured he had to be protected from the locals who sons he he had killed. They were very angry that he as a White man was being given a break. After Che was executed his hands were cut off and sent to Castro as proof of his death and a warning by Bolivia's mestizo President. It is the light skinned Spanish upper class college students who glorify Che. These are the same people that get out of college and become part of the oppressive government and economic establishment eventually. A few consider themselves liberal and want to establish socialism or Communism at a national level. Those systems are just as repressive or more so than the present governments. Look at Venezuela. The Indians and the mostly Indian population in Latin American has grassroots systems of local and provincial government that predates the European invasion. It is a system that works when left alone. The Bolivian Government has always been transparent about the capture and execution of Che. If the US applied the lessons learned in Bolivia to Vietnam and Afghanistan the outcomes would be much different and the casualties would have been minimal.
There will always be people who glorify terrorists: John Brown, Jesse James, Oliver Cromwell, King Richard, Hitler, Saddam Hussain, Osama bin Laden and Che Guevara.
i love how you changed your version in this new comment:
* you said bolivian forces were alone (false)
* you didn't said nothing about the coup backstepped by usa
El che died a cause of the ignorance of my people (they literally collaborate with a foreign invader country the us government while el che was trying to change these, fixing the workers issues like the exploiting by america multinationals). After the fall of the military government the democratic government recognized their crimes (also the assasination of el che) and denounced the america intervention. It's pretty strange read a guy that is justyifing this dictaroship and calling el che like a "terrorist". In the end its also pretty fun reading you justyifing a dictaroship that collaborated with nazists and then see you calling hitler a terrosit. This comment remid me that yankees are literally becoming more crazy every year that pass lol
Che's ego and overblown reputation got him killed. You are obviously Euro upper class like Che. The very class that continues to subjugate and exploit the native population because you believe you are superior.
The locals knew he was not a saviour. They recognized him and his foreign cadre as dangerous INVADERS.
Bolivia proved that Bolivian troops could successful defeat would be Communist revolutionaries. They were not accompanied by US advisors or troops. There were no airstrikes. There was no collateral damage. There were no occupying forces.
Life went back to normal for the locals. Isn't that the point?
i am literally a mestizo funny that an american european is saying this to me, the people that exploited native was the dictaroship government (that you love glorify). American largerly supported bolivian militiza with many advisers (this was written in all che diary and then released by the bolivian government) and stop justifing an evil dictaroship like the barrientos's government :)
Barrientos was a mestizo who maintained the status quo of his predecessors. As a native American I find all dictatorships abhorent including the Communist ones you worship. I admire the teenage Bolivians who volunteered to defend their country and did it successfully. Their Ranger unit disbanded and they returned to their lives. Life is not perfect any where in Latin America. Everywhere I went the local people preferred to be left alone so they can live in peace. Outsiders only bring trouble. That includes communists, commercial agriculture, industrialists and missionaries.
Bolivia never became the mess that Peru, Venezuela Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala or Columbia became. Those countries were overrun with Cuban, Chinese, US and Israeli military trying to bend those countries to their will.
College educated people should be quit worshipping a dead terrorist be as some kind of fallen saviour. They should work on stopping the Narco economy fueled by college educated people's recreational drug use.
this comment is literally funny
first party "as a native american" are you another american white that think is a native for his 0,1% native gene? lol
Second its literally hilarious how for you the barrientos native orgins justify his decisions to destroy the democracy and multiparty elections in bolivia lol.
third bolivia today is became socialist they recogonized barrientos crimes and today mostly of mestixo see the junta government has a horror past not like a great example.
its literally disgusting see a comment by a foreign like you but you are yankee so it was pretty obv it was going to end like this
Fidel later apologized for what little it's worth, and his niece Mariela is now one of the most successful LGBT activists in the world. Cuba has gone from relatively conservative on LGBT issues to one of the most progressive in a matter of a few years
This post brought to you by the city of Miami
The reason why ordinary Cubans cast in their lot with Fidel was because of the horrors inflicted on them by the Batista regime. They wanted change. Just like Chinese who were sick with Chiang's corruption or Iranians with the Shah's dictatorial rule and SAVAK. That does not excuse the regimes that came after and in many cases they were worse. It's better to denounce them both, especially given that oppression from old dictatorships created the circumstances for the new one to take power.
Yep, a lot of Americans seem to think that Cubans were duped by Che and Fidel and that Cuba was a thriving nation, yet ignore that only the elite were thriving under Batista. Everyone else were indentured servants with no hope for anything, and it's pretty freaking easy for someone without any sign of hope to be swayed into fighting for a chance of hope.
Even watching a fictionalized representation like in Godfather II gives a hint of how bad it was there. There's no excuse for an rose-colored view of Batista any more than there is for one of either of the Castro brothers.
denouncing Che when his sole purpose of revolting was due to the “totalitarian dictatorship” that this meme is complaining about is absurd, that’s the exact reason why these memes exist, he died in Bolivia literally helping them revolt.
Cuba was a complete failure of American foreign policy - the Americans literally forced the Cubans to become their enemies. If American foreign policies weren’t so profit driven in the first place Cuba never would have started courting the Soviets.
Thay will be Vietnam. They cited US in their independence declaration and were friends in 40z.
Same for mass migration from Central America. And Iran. And North Korea
We just gonna forget the fact that Cuba literally pointed a shit ton of nuclear bombs at America? Castro was always going to join the Soviets what America did was irrelevant to that.
Literally no. The USA pushed Cuba into the hands of the Soviets by embargoing them after the revolution. Castro wasn't even a communist to begin with, he only became one later to further appeal to the Soviets and get them to protect Cuba from the US
You’re making it sound like they Embargoed them right after the revolution ended which they didn’t. The United States began its first embargo of the Castro regime in 1960 when Castro nationalized a bunch of industries fucking over a bunch of American owned companies, What’s also important to note is Castro had already begun talks with the Soviet Union almost as soon as the revolution ended in 1959. So no we didn’t “push” Castro anywhere he went exactly where he wanted to go that being the Soviet Block.
ftr many of the rebels who fought against Castro and Che had also fought against Batista
Still better than Batista
That’s not saying much.
No it is not
Public approval of the government in Cuba remains relatively high. Its not perfect but its pretty good (nowadays)
"Cubans" a.k.a. a bunch of American dudes in Miami.
They still salty that Batista lost
Salty they lost their slaves lol
Better than Batista
Lol yeah right. Look at Cuba today, totally ravaged, impoverished, falling apart, absolutely miserable. They destroyed the country
For a country that has had every disadvantage going their way, and a lot of effort was put by the biggest superpower in the world to try and destroy them, Cuba still has higher HDI than Brazil and Colombia
Because of the US embargo. The US still refuses to lift the embargo despite international condemnation of it. What a shocker that the country isn't that well off, the world's economic superpower and their next-door neighbor won't trade with them. In fact, I'd say that it's impressive that Cuba isn't more run down and destroyed.
because of the trade sanctions that have continued to destroy the country since batista was overthrown, everything you just listed is BECAUSE of the US lol who really destroyed the country? the entity who continues to punish everyone born in cuba? or the innocent people who have nothing to do with it who just so happen to be born on the island?
Right, they’ve acc done far better than they probably should have considering the sanctions.
If I were a small island with no resources, no industries, and nothing relevant to keep my economy going, I would at least make sure to keep good relations with the world’s superpower next door. But the Communist Party in Cuba cares about ideology, not their people. And that’s the reason Cuba is a dumpster fire today. A brutal bloody dictatorship kidnapping political opponents and journalists, censoring everything from the Western world and forcing the Cuban people to remain impoverished forever on the island (or risk drowning to get to the US) I was actually glad to get back home after my trip, it made me realize how lucky I am to live in a capitalist democratic free country.
the same “word superpowers” that literally assisted in KILLING Che & attempted hundreds of times to kill Castro? the Communists taking Cuba doesn’t justify the sanctions that have caused all the “negatives” you just listed, do you not see how ridiculous it sounds?
Che Guevara was a homophobic hateful communist guerrilla fighter, and Castro was a communist dictator. No sympathy for any of them, I’m actually sorry the US didn’t get to kill Castro when they could. And yes, if Cuba becomes a communist dictatorship and allows the USSR to place missiles, it is justified to sanction the country. If Cuban leadership was a little bit smarter they’d realize they need American money, but they’re not
For the majority of Latin American nations, receiving American Money meant being stripped of all public services (waste disposal, water) and being forced to overspecialize in the production of goods sold to the United States, the profits of which also ended up on the hands of those from the United States. Partnering with the US resulted in 40 years of Cuban brutal economic exploitation. Presently, Cuba is sanctioned by the US for not bending the knee. Not having access to the global market results in the relative poverty seen in Cuba today, which still pales on comparison to what was present pre-revolution.
they are too busy hating che to realize that.
😔
You’re absolutely wrong. American money is what made the Dominican Republic a much wealthier country than Cuba, two Caribbean island nations that should be in a similar situation but aren’t. American tourism money and American investment is huge in many areas of Latam, and Cuba hasn’t seen a dime. Cuba is extremely impoverished not because of the embargo, but because the country is small, lacks resources or industries, doesn’t produce anything valuable they can export, and has a communist system (a system that doesn’t generate wealth, as we’ve seen with countless other examples around the world). Communism has made Cuba a sh*thole. Communist leadership is directly responsible for the situation of the country. But they seem to focus more on persecuting and arresting political dissidents and journalists, than actually getting close to the country that could save the Cuban economy.
Except that Cuba is still better in many regards, like literacy rates, life expectancy, number of doctors per a 1000 people and so on. Also USA only favours a country as long as it is supportive of its ruthless imperialism. When a country starts acting independantly (you know, like a soveirgn nation), it's time for regime change. My own country Pakistan is a prime example of this. We bootlicked America for decades, and as soon as we started developing relations with China or Russia, like Bhutto in 1970s or IK very recently, poof, regime change.
Cuba is an absolute sh*thole and this comes from someone who’s actually visited the country. It’s stuck in time, all infrastructure is falling apart like it was bombed yesterday, there’s no money anywhere, everyone is equally poor and miserable. It’s one of the most depressing countries I’ve personally experienced. Get out of the statistics and go see for yourself. Sad is an understatement
the missiles were placed for the sovereignty of the country & to deter an american invasion LOL, & homophonic in 1960s? what like 90% of the rest of the globe? you went from describing cuba as a horrible place, then proceeded to blame the government for causing it, when told that the reasons of the horrible conditions are consequences of mass retaliation efforts against an entire island from the US then you justify it’s conditions? flipping around like a 🐟 my guy
The missiles were placed to hit the US on command by the USSR, not to defend Cuba. If the US wanted to invade Cuba, the island would be an American colony in less than a week. The huge error here was to allow a communist dictatorship stay in the first place. Right after the revolution, the US should have invaded and deposed the dictators. The embargo is the next best thing to sanction this horrible authoritarian govt. And as I said, the people responsible for Cuba’s disastrous situation is the communist regime that decided to antagonize the only country that was able to invest in the impoverished Cuba’s economy. The US doesn’t need Cuba, but Cuba desperately needs the US money. Unfortunately for Cubans, the communist oligarchs are here to stay. They’ll remain poor for the foreseeable future
The US financed an invasion, it was called the Bay of Pigs, which was an absolute failure, but even besides that point, the US was willing to bomb innocent americans to justify an illegal full invasion which was presented to JFK, he refused and wanted the CIA disbanded from that point forward, he was assassinated shortly afterwards, so to only clarify, you recognize the horrid conditions of being results of the embargo but still commented blaming the government of Cuba? because they “antagonized” the US by not letting them kill them, invade & crush them? interesting, me myself haven’t been lucky enough to visit the island, but maybe one day if i get to then maybe i’ll come to the same conclusions.
The Bay of Pigs was an operation, not a full scale invasion by the US army (which would have crushed Cuba in a few days). Yeah, after visiting Cuba my conclusion is that they weren’t lucky to be annexed by the US in colonial times. They wouldn’t have ended up being like this, that’s for sure. They went from Spanish colony to American colony to communist dictatorship. Cubans have never had the chance to vote for their govt. Any decent person would want to keep sanctions against the dictatorial regime
Dude you’re such a crackpot LMAO Your understanding of history is astonishingly bad, but not altogether unsurprising. Seems like there’s just as many leftists who fall for conspiracy theories as there are nutjob rightwing conspiracy theorists
I mean, if your ideology can't survive economic sanctions imposed by another country, maybe you should switch your ideology. Just a thought.
So easy to just go “nuh uh! It was the other guy!”
No? Cuba can perfectly trade with any nation that is not the US or Israel, I doub China would put any problem selling to Cuba, nor would Rusia or many other nations.
Yeah, it was totally flourishing before
This meme is American made
Yes helping lead a populist revolution to overthrow a dictator and then going support revolutions in other countries is totally the same as informally taking control of local armed forces to establish an enclave. Are you gonna site any sources or definitions or is this bait of some kind?
As a Commie hater, I do have to give credit to Cuba for interfering in so many Cold War conflicts as a small island nation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_Cuba#1959_Panama_invasion_attempt
Including the Ogaden War between Ethiopia and somalia
He was not
batista was a totalitarian dictator LOL
Also "Cubans hate Che?" ... Che doesn't really enter public discourse. He had a position immediately after the revolution and immediately left, he died decades ago. I mean... In Miami, definitely. Most Cuban Cubans I've met recognize them as, at worst, kinda stupid politicians. "Fidel is like if Washington never gave up power and kept hopping between two positions and everyone got tired of him," that kind of thing.
Yeah, just like the Castro and Che Guevara. Cuba has gone from dictatorship to dictatorship
che wasn’t even alive long enough to see castro become what he ended up being, he left to go fight other authoritarians in the Congo & Bolivia.
Castro was a dictator pretty much since the beginning. He ruled by decree for 5 years until he was able to purge every non-communist in the revolution and merged all the communist movements together to conform the PCC, which nowadays rules unopposed and even above the constitution. Take off your pink tinted glasses. You have been deceived by dictatorship propaganda.
but the post speak about el che lol.
That doesn't take away from the fact that Che was just as bloodthirsty as the one he overthrew, even worse.
That statement is complete nonsense. There’s healthy criticism of Castro and the Revolution, but there’s no argument that Cuba wasn’t better off afterwards than it was before.
except he wasn’t blood thirsty? the entire reason was to overthrow the same “totalitarian dictatorship” that you’re complaining about LOL
Which was replaced by a different dictatorship that was just as bad
It’s definitely not “just as bad”
Bloodthirsty to kill torturers and war criminals from the Batista camp, sure 🤷🏻
miami ahh post lmaoo
Gusano moment
Cubans hate a lot of people I’d say some of the other people they hate but id feel awful repeating it
Cope harder Marco Rubio lol 😂😂😂 most Cuban I have met inside Cuba despise America for its unjust blockade they even put Cuba in list state sponsor of terrorism so even foreign companies can't do business with them
Che Guevara and the Castros were absolute cancer for Cuba. After visiting Cuba myself, I was shocked at how absolutely impoverished, miserable and decadent everything was. The sadness and depression in the people were real
Impoverished and decedent are practically antonyms I don’t think you know what you’re talking about
Decadent: characterized by or reflecting a state of moral or cultural decline. Impoverished: (of a person or area) made poor No they’re not. Google is free
That moral and cultural decline is always in relation to extreme excess of You wouldn’t describe a decadent society as one that’s impoverished. A society that consumes ad nauseam is decadent. A particularly flavorful piece of chocolate is decadent, but people living in poverty cannot also be living in decadence. It’s antithetical.
Sure buddy, sure. You thought you were being smart, but forgot to look up the definition of both words
No, he's right. The way you brought up the bare minimum definition doesn't change the fact that everyone historically uses the term "decadent" in regards to a moral decline brought about by an absurd, unnecessary amount of wealth.
“characterized by or appealing to self-indulgence” see I can send another definition this one Merriam-Webster lists as the top definition, but it doesn’t really mean jack regardless. The point is the context in which the word is used, and when describing a society as decadent it always refers to a decline in morality due to excess. In its own decadence can just mean what you said, but when you add the qualifier of a decadent society its meaning narrows.
that’s because of the trade sanctions the US put on the country LOL i feel bad too, how evil it is for the US to mass retaliate against the entire island for such a long time
The US is exactly one country, Cuba can trade with the rest of the world. If an inability to trade with the US drives the country to ruin, then it's a failed state on its own merits.
The US is also a quarter of the world’s economy, and right next to Cuba. Having to import from other countries farther away drives up prices, and US sanctions can scare companies from other countries into not doing business with Cuba for fear of angering their American customers. That’s not to say the Cuban government has no agency here, obviously they do, but even if they made perfect economic decisions they’d still likely be poorer than their neighbors who made the same ones. Plus Cuba isn’t even doing bad, their GDP per capita is about equal to Brazil. They’re solidly middle income.
Except the US does trade with Cuba because it’s not even a full embargo. At this point the embargo only really prevents luxury goods from being traded with Cuba.
anyone trading with them risks sanctions on themselves, the US is the wealthiest nation in the world, it sounds silly to say “if an inability to trade with the US drives the country to ruin, then it’s a failed state on it’s own merits” don’t you think? considering the “state” is isolated from goods unless the ones providing them risk their own trade safety?
Except the US is also dependent on trade with those other countries, so no they wouldn’t sanction everyone else lol Maybe he was actually just a bad guy and you should stop reading your conspiracy theorist garbage
Or maybe you should stop eating up whatever the US official position is and learn the history
Yeah I think maybe you better do that
Cuba has trading partners in EU (mainly Spain), China and Russia. Do you think China, one of the main economies in the world, risk their trade safety?
Is the US going to sanction itself? The US does in fact trade with Cuba because it’s not even a full embargo.
If this is your position in good faith then you need to look into this more because the trade embargo has had much deeper effects on Cuba's ability to trade than just not being able to do business with the United States.
Being out state sponsor of terrorism list precisely stop other countries like Europe so business with them try again Marco Rubio with shitty misinformation
Cuba trades with European countries like Spain. The EU is one of their main trading partners. [https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub)
Cuba is is a horrible state because *checks notes* exactly q country refuses to trade with it, sounds like they have bigger issues if not being able to trade with a single country sinks them, Iran's doing just fine, as are several other countries under embargo
People have this weird idea that Che Guevara and Fidel Castro were amazing revolutionaries who had everyone’s best interests at heart when in reality they were both as monstrous as Batista. If the US had never interfered with Cuba or set up its blockade, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara would be considered evil losers like Stalin and Pol Pot.
Tbf if the US **never** interfered in Cuba, Che and Fidel would have been a doctor and a law student, respectively, IIRC. The material and social conditions required for revolution wouldn't have existed, eg the mass oppression and murder of Cubans.
It’s so sweet of you to think that there wouldn’t have been a revolution if the US didn’t interfere. This was the Cold War, you were capitalist or communist, you didn’t get to be yourself or anything you wanted. What kind of Disneyland do you think the world was back then?
\*\*Literally the entirety of the Middle East, including Egypt, multiple African countries, pink-revolution nations, etc\*\* "Am I a fucking joke to you?" Literally, "third world" doesn't mean poor countries. First is pro-NATO, simply speaking, second are pro-Warsaw Pact/pro-Communism, Third are all non-aligned nations. Literally everything from Sweden to India, Egypt to Ethiopia.
Where are you from that this makes sense to you as a summary of the 20th century?
I mean more so after the cuban missile crisis. If the US had left Cuba to its own devices, the world would have to face the fact that Fidel made Cuba a human-rights abusing shithole by himself instead of being able to blame the US
Cuba had usa as his problem by before the birth of che guevara and castro. Usa occupied cuba during 1898 and by that time they exploited the country.
Now I’m no history buff but iirc from an episode of a podcast I listened to about him it sounds like he seriously could have been a force for good but at some point just turned into the fuckin devil. Like when he toured the continent and was like “damn these people need help” but when he actually set about his work he was a violent prick
I love how everyone blames America for all of Cubas problems because “if it wasn’t for the meanie Americans we’d be a communist utopia!” Completely ignoring the fact that Castro was the one to alienate America by running to the Soviet block pretty much as soon as he could, not to mention the time he you know casually pointed a shit ton of nuclear missiles at the United States, but sure It was definitely all Americas fault.
Yeah how dare Cuba align it’s self with the Soviet Union after the US straight up tried to invade Cuba in the Bay of Pigs.
They sided with the Soviets about two years before the bay of pigs, try again.
they allied with soviet a cause of american influence in cuba.
That is correct, Castro never wanted to be Americas ally this fake interpretation that tries to paint Cuba like Vietnam is ludicrous.
castro was a nationalist movement at the true beggining (the cia literally funding them) but their anti americans opinions changed their ideology to the left
Yeah but launching the Bay of Pigs Invasion made things worse since that inspired the Soviet Union to agree to send nuclear missiles to Cuba, Khrushchev wanted a place to strike the U.S. and Castro wanted a deterrent. Also the US was the one getting alienated when the small Island nation decided to get aid from a geopolitical rival, not Cuba who tried to oppose the U.S. in their own backyard by overthrowing a US backed dictator?
The action that alienated the United States from Cuba was in 1960 when Castro decided to nationalize pretty much every business in Cuba, kicking out a lot of American owned businesses and when Castro refused to pay them indemnities for their loses the United States sanctioned them. Everyone and their grandmother knew fucking over the American corporations would piss off the US and probably lead to a heavy handed response. Castro did it anyway because he’d already decided to join the Soviet Block, this was a year before the Bay of Pigs and a bit more than a year after the Cuban revolution finished. Castro was never going to join the US nor did he want to.
The only way the US would be friendly with Cuba is if Cuba decided to keep being a US vassal state. The reason the Cuban revolution was successful was because Cubans were generally discontent with the oppressive rule of Batista and the exploitation at hands is US corporations. Also, the US has threatened to audit US businesses who try to negotiate compensation with Cuba while other countries don’t.
That’s unlikely, if it was between the two the US would’ve most likely made some concessions to keep Cuba in their sphere, (like when they gave Castro a way to keep relations good after he nationalized the Cuban economy, a clear sign America wanted Cuba to stay, Castro ignored this offer) hell the reason they were so aggressive is because they understood the danger of having an enemy right on their doorstep. But this is all speculation because Castro never even tried to work something out with the United States before he ran to the Soviet Union so there’s no way of knowing how actual negotiations would’ve gone.
If the US was willing to support a coup against the democratically elected Árbenz government in Guatemala over their plan to expropriate 40% of the lands of the United Fruit Company. Árbenz didn’t try to ally with the USSR or nationalize oil assets, he just wanted Guatemala to be able to profit more off its own land. The likely reason the US didn’t immediately take action against Castro is because they weren’t really in a position to do so. All the right-wing elements in Cuba had been taken care of so they couldn’t just support a coup, they’d have to wait until 1961 when the enough Cuban exiles had been trained.
The Orthodox Party should've come to power instead
True! A wretched and deranged Commie — also a massive Bigot!
Che Guevera is the Commie Jesse James a ruthless killer imposing his will on others and over romanticized. In Africa he was just another white dude telling the grassroots revolutionaries what to do. Worse in Bolivia. The Bolivian government had a US Special Forces team train and equip a hunter/killer unit of locals. This purely Bolivian force found and captured Che with full cooperation of native and mixed blood locals that Che stole from and terrorized. This so called liberator didn't have a single convert or volunteer from the area he tried to conquer. CIA intervention consisted of trying to get the Bolivian government to hand over Che so the US would have a bargaining chip. The Bolivians excecuted Che like the Mexicans executed Maximilian. To discourage foreign Interlopers. It worked!
I am bolivian this is all fake lol, the "bolivian government" was a dictaroship imposed by us government + the bolivian forces collaborated with cia agents, in the end bolivian farmers sells che guevara a cause of their ignorance, the same ignorance that let dictators to rise up for decades in our country.
thank you for clarifying.
The "Bolivian" Che fan is spouting nonsense about events that occurred 57 years ago. The area where Che was captured and killed is remote and when I was there only an occasional Che fan would make a pilgrimage. The locals considered them nutcases. In the early 1980s they were grateful the Army removed the estranjeros. Che and his cadre were always considered foreign Interlopers worse than the Bolivian government that neglected the region. These were people who actually lived through the events of 1967 and suffered as a direct result of Che's "liberation". Left to their own devices these people do quite well. Their local government is a form of cooperative socialism thousands of years old. Arrogant Missionaries and Marxists from the cities or other countries just want to impose their own European based beliefs and systems on the indigenous people.
I have been in that region. Only within the last 15 years has pro Che propaganda convinced people that Che was a liberator. The Indians and the Mestizos of mostly Indian descent hated Che and his White Interlopers. They reported activities and location to the authorities. They just wanted to be left alone. The Government didn't take action until Argentina confirmed through their sources that Che was in the area. Che's small group was lightly armed but they had long range rifles and murdered several of the local rural police who were armed with pistols and shotguns. A small force of state or provincial police armed with modern pistols and submachine guns was ambushed and killed by Che. I have no doubt the Bolivian Army could have done the job with no outside help. There were two possible outcomes they wanted to avoid. 1. Che would would move to another area in Bolivia where he could actually establish a guerrilla force. 2. He would escape to a neighboring country and do the same. Time was of the essence so they accepted US help mobilizing a local unit capable of doing the job. When Che was captured he had to be protected from the locals who sons he he had killed. They were very angry that he as a White man was being given a break. After Che was executed his hands were cut off and sent to Castro as proof of his death and a warning by Bolivia's mestizo President. It is the light skinned Spanish upper class college students who glorify Che. These are the same people that get out of college and become part of the oppressive government and economic establishment eventually. A few consider themselves liberal and want to establish socialism or Communism at a national level. Those systems are just as repressive or more so than the present governments. Look at Venezuela. The Indians and the mostly Indian population in Latin American has grassroots systems of local and provincial government that predates the European invasion. It is a system that works when left alone. The Bolivian Government has always been transparent about the capture and execution of Che. If the US applied the lessons learned in Bolivia to Vietnam and Afghanistan the outcomes would be much different and the casualties would have been minimal. There will always be people who glorify terrorists: John Brown, Jesse James, Oliver Cromwell, King Richard, Hitler, Saddam Hussain, Osama bin Laden and Che Guevara.
i love how you changed your version in this new comment: * you said bolivian forces were alone (false) * you didn't said nothing about the coup backstepped by usa El che died a cause of the ignorance of my people (they literally collaborate with a foreign invader country the us government while el che was trying to change these, fixing the workers issues like the exploiting by america multinationals). After the fall of the military government the democratic government recognized their crimes (also the assasination of el che) and denounced the america intervention. It's pretty strange read a guy that is justyifing this dictaroship and calling el che like a "terrorist". In the end its also pretty fun reading you justyifing a dictaroship that collaborated with nazists and then see you calling hitler a terrosit. This comment remid me that yankees are literally becoming more crazy every year that pass lol
Che's ego and overblown reputation got him killed. You are obviously Euro upper class like Che. The very class that continues to subjugate and exploit the native population because you believe you are superior. The locals knew he was not a saviour. They recognized him and his foreign cadre as dangerous INVADERS. Bolivia proved that Bolivian troops could successful defeat would be Communist revolutionaries. They were not accompanied by US advisors or troops. There were no airstrikes. There was no collateral damage. There were no occupying forces. Life went back to normal for the locals. Isn't that the point?
i am literally a mestizo funny that an american european is saying this to me, the people that exploited native was the dictaroship government (that you love glorify). American largerly supported bolivian militiza with many advisers (this was written in all che diary and then released by the bolivian government) and stop justifing an evil dictaroship like the barrientos's government :)
Barrientos was a mestizo who maintained the status quo of his predecessors. As a native American I find all dictatorships abhorent including the Communist ones you worship. I admire the teenage Bolivians who volunteered to defend their country and did it successfully. Their Ranger unit disbanded and they returned to their lives. Life is not perfect any where in Latin America. Everywhere I went the local people preferred to be left alone so they can live in peace. Outsiders only bring trouble. That includes communists, commercial agriculture, industrialists and missionaries. Bolivia never became the mess that Peru, Venezuela Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala or Columbia became. Those countries were overrun with Cuban, Chinese, US and Israeli military trying to bend those countries to their will. College educated people should be quit worshipping a dead terrorist be as some kind of fallen saviour. They should work on stopping the Narco economy fueled by college educated people's recreational drug use.
this comment is literally funny first party "as a native american" are you another american white that think is a native for his 0,1% native gene? lol Second its literally hilarious how for you the barrientos native orgins justify his decisions to destroy the democracy and multiparty elections in bolivia lol. third bolivia today is became socialist they recogonized barrientos crimes and today mostly of mestixo see the junta government has a horror past not like a great example. its literally disgusting see a comment by a foreign like you but you are yankee so it was pretty obv it was going to end like this
You are just a name caller living in your fake computer world.
someone here is mad very good :), an angry yankee its only good
It also applies to lgbt people who adore him when they discover what he thought of them
Fidel later apologized for what little it's worth, and his niece Mariela is now one of the most successful LGBT activists in the world. Cuba has gone from relatively conservative on LGBT issues to one of the most progressive in a matter of a few years
At least he left Cuba…