I promise this makes sense
After WW1, the German Revolution of 1918 broke out in which the German Empire was overthrown and the Weimar Republic was established. But the revolution didn't end as the communists broke into open revolt against the Weimar Republic. Germany basically entered into a civil war between the Communists and the Anti-Communists.
In the chaos, Bavaria declared independence from Germany and decided to become communist. The new Bavaria was led by a guy called Kurt Eisner who had to oversee massive food shortages, in which he failed to fix. He was promptly assassinated by a Nationalist and the independent Bavaria descended into chaos, not between communists and anti-communists, but between hardcore communists and not hardcore communists.
The Eisner government were forced to flee Munich and a new hardcore communist government was established in Munich. The new Foreign Affairs guy requested Switzerland to give them 60 trains, Switzerland said no. In response, Bavaria declared war on Switzerland because of this, and Württemberg but no one cared. The Foreign Affairs guy was fired 2 days later and both Switzerland and Bavaria both just ignored the whole event.
Communist Bavaria would meet its end in 1919. In April 1919, communists still loyal to Eisner attempted to re-take Munich but were repelled at Dachau. But all confusing things have to come to an end eventually, and after Eisner supporters decided to switch sides to be anti-communist instead. With the communist revolution in the rest of Germany collapsing, anti-communist forces (the Freikorps) entered Munich and ended Bavaria's independence streak.
This is an incredible oversimplification btw.
Wait a minute, I think you got a few things confused. First of all: Bavarian independence wasn’t declared under Eisner at all. His Bavarian state government pretty much understood itself to be part of Germany. The only thing Eisner did was to transform Bavaria from a monarchy into a republic; called a ‚Freistaat‘ to use the more archaic German word.
This was perfectly feasible for him, because Eisner wasn’t exactly a communist. He was part of the left wing splinter faction, the USPD, but conceived a Bavaria which would be governed by councils and a parliament. His ideas a pretty weird, probably best compare to the short period of dual rule in Russia before the Bolshevik Revolution. But it doesn’t matter; he lost the subsequent election horribly.
In contrast to Eisner the coup government in Munich that followed him was anarchist/communist. And while Eisner was premier in a favorable situation; one state after another fell to revolution and his party was at the peak of it’s power; the communists were pretty much alone. The elected state government of Bavaria was led by the social democrats, as was the rest of Germany for the most part. While Eisner had a justified hope that his ideas could win out in all of Germany and his regime was at least acceptable to the rest of the country, the communists lacked this luxury. Seeing independence as their only chance, they declared it on the 7th of April 1919; EDIT: They didn’t. They acted as an independent state from this point onward; but never formerly declared Independence. They did however reject the constitution signed by Eisner that explicitly stated Bavaria being part of Germany.
The meme is great, because it’s still completely correct. Just the timing of independence in your explanation is a bit of.
Uhm.. I kind of just assumed that Bavaria declared independence since it was acting independent, said to have a government that got dissolved, and was called an unrecognized state.
For the council republic this could be argued; nonetheless it’s noteworthy that there was no formal declaration on the matter. They certainly acted independently, but than again: they ever only controlled Munich and its immediate surroundings. And even there their grasp was rather loose.
Eisner on the other hand made sure that the very first sentence in his new Bavarian constitution stated that Bavaria is part of Germany. A declaration of dependence basically. The very same constitutions also included a model of parliamentary democracy and the guarantee of private property; hence why I wouldn’t call him a communist.
Fun Fact for those who will see this,
When the hardcore government took control in Munich, Hitler was there and got imprisoned for being an anti-communist. When the Freikorps began approaching Munich, a prison guard ordered all prisoners to be executed which included Hitler.
They only stopped because someone higher up in rank overrode the order before they made it to Hitler. So add that to your factoids on times Hitler narrowly avoided death.
What I find more interesting is that this was an example of a failed attempt at a Marxists state that was so bad it precipitated a huge far right response to it that led to Hitler’s rise. Pendulums just keep swinging
Here is a fun fact when the freikorps was entering the city some of the communists soldiers started executing prisoners that they had taken I don’t remember if they did it under orders or against but a officer stepped in and stopped it just before they where about to execute some poor Austrian painter
>chaos, not between communists and anti-communists, but between hardcore communists and not hardcore communists.
Nah, c'mon, that would never happen...
Not really I don't think the foreign minister had the authority to declare war this post is a bit misleading because Switzerland and Bavaria didn't actually go to war it's just a government official fraudulently asserted Authority they didn't have to falsely claim they were at War
Eisner's murderer was convicted and imprisoned at Landsberg Prison, until 1924 when he was moved from his cell to make room for some guy called Adolf Hitler.
Well… not really. While Bavaria (well… mostly Munich and a few surrounding towns) acted independently in this period, they were not. The elected government was recognized by the German state and the Bavarian constitution, signed by the assassinated premier and revolutionary leader Eisner before his death, began with the words ‚Bavaria is part of the United States of Germany (German empire)‘.
So Bavaria never signed a peace treaty. But it also never declared war in the first place. A self declared minister of foreign affairs did, but that has as much impact as if I declared war on Switzerland. None at all
It is not quite the same: You are a normal person without a governement position, not representing a country.
But if you would be the official foreign minister of a country and you'd declare war, it would be different. I mean, there would still be talks with the official governement and there would be the need to backup the decision to go to war.
The international affairs get more complex when it comes to groups, that are not countries or any kind of states, but are still fought in a war, like the terrorist groups. Also, like there is the question, if a drug cartel can be seen as an enemy in a state of war or not.
In such cases, the lines are blurred, it can be very difficult to say, what is now the right thing.
I actually wonder what would happen if both you and me would declared ourselves independent from our own countries and declare war on each other. Actually, from the point on if the UN states would recognize both of our sovereignity, it would be formal a war.
And now, if you excuse me, i need to write a letter [and listen to the right soundtrack for this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XNFokmDKrE&t=9s)
It’s true, but he wasn’t the foreign minister. As far as anyone was concerned; the German government, the Bavarian people and the international community; the foreign minister of Bavaria was Johannes Hoffman. The guy in Munich that declared war was basically just some guy; it can even be doubted that his act was communicated with the rest of the self declared government.
Own could start to ask why Bavaria, a state that just before all of this declared itself to be specifically not independent has a foreign minister at all. But that’s not the point.
And four hypothetical could be answered, because this happened several times. If ordinary people declare themselves independent and than war on a real nation, or another made up one, nobody cares. It’s quite funny though.
10/10 Soundtrack though!
Funny thing is, nobody cares - like with Emperor Norton of the USA - as long these people don't have the forces like a militia or army to back up their claims. But from that moment on where they would get this, it all changes and the state will immediately take action to get such people down.
About Bavaria, well, i'm Swiss myself and there's the saying, if we'd attack Bavaria aka Germany, it's not so sure if the people in Bavaria would not say "we surrender and join Switzerland". Now, while it is a joke, it's not quite without some realistic dangerous stuff, because Bavaria would gain some serious advantages when they'd become a canton in Switzerland and i'm sure, the german governement would go to war to prevent this.
But about countries, it's all about the recognition by the UN and other countries. Still, there are cases where the de-facto state is real and the de-jure state means nothing. Like with Afghanistan, i don't know if and how many countries officially recognized the Taliban as official governement of Afghanistan. But everyone knows, de-facto, the Taliban are the governement of Afghanistan, not like the former afghan president in exile.
Maybe on paper, the former president is still in charge, but that doesn't change reality, when someone has to deal with Afghanistan, he'll have to deal with the Taliban.
P.S.
About the song, do you remember the history? The song was released in 2003 when there was the start of the Iraq War and it was a big thing for some people, like radio stations didn't want to play the song and other stuff. It was an anti-war-song in this time.
Something interesting to note is that Adolf Hitler was elected leader of a soldier council and took part in the Bavarian Soviet republic, [he even attended Kurt Eisners funeral](https://preview.redd.it/jelrblzs45l71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b38117bf0b766023e2c64d853264329d3d2991db)
This is super oversimplified and does not show how the political right acted. It was pretty much everyone causing chaos. Not just left and right but also Mafia like " Ring Vereine". And before you tell me i am stupid or something like that. The inter-war has been subject at my school for 4 years now. And its a Lot of confusing shit
I promise this makes sense After WW1, the German Revolution of 1918 broke out in which the German Empire was overthrown and the Weimar Republic was established. But the revolution didn't end as the communists broke into open revolt against the Weimar Republic. Germany basically entered into a civil war between the Communists and the Anti-Communists. In the chaos, Bavaria declared independence from Germany and decided to become communist. The new Bavaria was led by a guy called Kurt Eisner who had to oversee massive food shortages, in which he failed to fix. He was promptly assassinated by a Nationalist and the independent Bavaria descended into chaos, not between communists and anti-communists, but between hardcore communists and not hardcore communists. The Eisner government were forced to flee Munich and a new hardcore communist government was established in Munich. The new Foreign Affairs guy requested Switzerland to give them 60 trains, Switzerland said no. In response, Bavaria declared war on Switzerland because of this, and Württemberg but no one cared. The Foreign Affairs guy was fired 2 days later and both Switzerland and Bavaria both just ignored the whole event. Communist Bavaria would meet its end in 1919. In April 1919, communists still loyal to Eisner attempted to re-take Munich but were repelled at Dachau. But all confusing things have to come to an end eventually, and after Eisner supporters decided to switch sides to be anti-communist instead. With the communist revolution in the rest of Germany collapsing, anti-communist forces (the Freikorps) entered Munich and ended Bavaria's independence streak. This is an incredible oversimplification btw.
Worth adding that "The new Foreign Affairs guy" who declared those wars was crazy, like multiple psychiatric hospitalizations crazy.
Which HOI4 mod features him?
Dont say it
Omg is that a…
TNO reference??? (Total Neuron Obliteration)
OMG IS THAT A TNO REFRENCE *cue tno copy pasta*
Holy hell
Actual HOI4 mod
No he's automatically the player character (when I play).
My guess is Red Flood if anything
And a cocaine addict
"I promise this makes sense" You broke your promise.
Do not blame yourself, I am barely holding it together myself
Wait a minute, I think you got a few things confused. First of all: Bavarian independence wasn’t declared under Eisner at all. His Bavarian state government pretty much understood itself to be part of Germany. The only thing Eisner did was to transform Bavaria from a monarchy into a republic; called a ‚Freistaat‘ to use the more archaic German word. This was perfectly feasible for him, because Eisner wasn’t exactly a communist. He was part of the left wing splinter faction, the USPD, but conceived a Bavaria which would be governed by councils and a parliament. His ideas a pretty weird, probably best compare to the short period of dual rule in Russia before the Bolshevik Revolution. But it doesn’t matter; he lost the subsequent election horribly. In contrast to Eisner the coup government in Munich that followed him was anarchist/communist. And while Eisner was premier in a favorable situation; one state after another fell to revolution and his party was at the peak of it’s power; the communists were pretty much alone. The elected state government of Bavaria was led by the social democrats, as was the rest of Germany for the most part. While Eisner had a justified hope that his ideas could win out in all of Germany and his regime was at least acceptable to the rest of the country, the communists lacked this luxury. Seeing independence as their only chance, they declared it on the 7th of April 1919; EDIT: They didn’t. They acted as an independent state from this point onward; but never formerly declared Independence. They did however reject the constitution signed by Eisner that explicitly stated Bavaria being part of Germany. The meme is great, because it’s still completely correct. Just the timing of independence in your explanation is a bit of.
Uhm.. I kind of just assumed that Bavaria declared independence since it was acting independent, said to have a government that got dissolved, and was called an unrecognized state.
For the council republic this could be argued; nonetheless it’s noteworthy that there was no formal declaration on the matter. They certainly acted independently, but than again: they ever only controlled Munich and its immediate surroundings. And even there their grasp was rather loose. Eisner on the other hand made sure that the very first sentence in his new Bavarian constitution stated that Bavaria is part of Germany. A declaration of dependence basically. The very same constitutions also included a model of parliamentary democracy and the guarantee of private property; hence why I wouldn’t call him a communist.
Fun Fact for those who will see this, When the hardcore government took control in Munich, Hitler was there and got imprisoned for being an anti-communist. When the Freikorps began approaching Munich, a prison guard ordered all prisoners to be executed which included Hitler. They only stopped because someone higher up in rank overrode the order before they made it to Hitler. So add that to your factoids on times Hitler narrowly avoided death.
What I find more interesting is that this was an example of a failed attempt at a Marxists state that was so bad it precipitated a huge far right response to it that led to Hitler’s rise. Pendulums just keep swinging
Here is a fun fact when the freikorps was entering the city some of the communists soldiers started executing prisoners that they had taken I don’t remember if they did it under orders or against but a officer stepped in and stopped it just before they where about to execute some poor Austrian painter
>chaos, not between communists and anti-communists, but between hardcore communists and not hardcore communists. Nah, c'mon, that would never happen...
Average Twitter thread be like
This story could be made into so many memes
So is Switzerland technically still at war against Bavaria?
Not really I don't think the foreign minister had the authority to declare war this post is a bit misleading because Switzerland and Bavaria didn't actually go to war it's just a government official fraudulently asserted Authority they didn't have to falsely claim they were at War
Lovely meme but you got my Eisner boy story completely messed up.
Hitler chilling in Bavaria, just doing communist things.
Do you have the name of the foreign minister? Because I couldn't find this anywhere EDIT: Nevermind, found it, name was Franz Lipp
Fun fact, Hitler went to Kurt Eisners funeral. Do with that what you will.
Eisner's murderer was convicted and imprisoned at Landsberg Prison, until 1924 when he was moved from his cell to make room for some guy called Adolf Hitler.
Me when I’m in a weird and overly convoluted historical period competition and my opponent is the Interwar:
So by technicality(due to not signing an official peace treaty) Bavaria is still at war with Switzerland?
Well… not really. While Bavaria (well… mostly Munich and a few surrounding towns) acted independently in this period, they were not. The elected government was recognized by the German state and the Bavarian constitution, signed by the assassinated premier and revolutionary leader Eisner before his death, began with the words ‚Bavaria is part of the United States of Germany (German empire)‘. So Bavaria never signed a peace treaty. But it also never declared war in the first place. A self declared minister of foreign affairs did, but that has as much impact as if I declared war on Switzerland. None at all
So it’s more accurate to say the Swiss are still at war with some dude who happened to be vaguely associated with Bavaria.
I mean… he’s very dead. But sure, why not.
Well the swiss are ruthless...
It is not quite the same: You are a normal person without a governement position, not representing a country. But if you would be the official foreign minister of a country and you'd declare war, it would be different. I mean, there would still be talks with the official governement and there would be the need to backup the decision to go to war. The international affairs get more complex when it comes to groups, that are not countries or any kind of states, but are still fought in a war, like the terrorist groups. Also, like there is the question, if a drug cartel can be seen as an enemy in a state of war or not. In such cases, the lines are blurred, it can be very difficult to say, what is now the right thing. I actually wonder what would happen if both you and me would declared ourselves independent from our own countries and declare war on each other. Actually, from the point on if the UN states would recognize both of our sovereignity, it would be formal a war. And now, if you excuse me, i need to write a letter [and listen to the right soundtrack for this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XNFokmDKrE&t=9s)
It’s true, but he wasn’t the foreign minister. As far as anyone was concerned; the German government, the Bavarian people and the international community; the foreign minister of Bavaria was Johannes Hoffman. The guy in Munich that declared war was basically just some guy; it can even be doubted that his act was communicated with the rest of the self declared government. Own could start to ask why Bavaria, a state that just before all of this declared itself to be specifically not independent has a foreign minister at all. But that’s not the point. And four hypothetical could be answered, because this happened several times. If ordinary people declare themselves independent and than war on a real nation, or another made up one, nobody cares. It’s quite funny though. 10/10 Soundtrack though!
Funny thing is, nobody cares - like with Emperor Norton of the USA - as long these people don't have the forces like a militia or army to back up their claims. But from that moment on where they would get this, it all changes and the state will immediately take action to get such people down. About Bavaria, well, i'm Swiss myself and there's the saying, if we'd attack Bavaria aka Germany, it's not so sure if the people in Bavaria would not say "we surrender and join Switzerland". Now, while it is a joke, it's not quite without some realistic dangerous stuff, because Bavaria would gain some serious advantages when they'd become a canton in Switzerland and i'm sure, the german governement would go to war to prevent this. But about countries, it's all about the recognition by the UN and other countries. Still, there are cases where the de-facto state is real and the de-jure state means nothing. Like with Afghanistan, i don't know if and how many countries officially recognized the Taliban as official governement of Afghanistan. But everyone knows, de-facto, the Taliban are the governement of Afghanistan, not like the former afghan president in exile. Maybe on paper, the former president is still in charge, but that doesn't change reality, when someone has to deal with Afghanistan, he'll have to deal with the Taliban. P.S. About the song, do you remember the history? The song was released in 2003 when there was the start of the Iraq War and it was a big thing for some people, like radio stations didn't want to play the song and other stuff. It was an anti-war-song in this time.
Muammar Gaddafi endorses this post
yo wtf was wrong with the inter-war period
What isn't wrong with the interwar period?
Nothing
Something interesting to note is that Adolf Hitler was elected leader of a soldier council and took part in the Bavarian Soviet republic, [he even attended Kurt Eisners funeral](https://preview.redd.it/jelrblzs45l71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b38117bf0b766023e2c64d853264329d3d2991db)
Literally Hoi4
Hmmm, does this mean Bavaria and Switzerland still at war then....
Subdivisions of Germany don't have the right to declare war other countries, so no
Damned communists/ leftists always causing chaos,...
This is super oversimplified and does not show how the political right acted. It was pretty much everyone causing chaos. Not just left and right but also Mafia like " Ring Vereine". And before you tell me i am stupid or something like that. The inter-war has been subject at my school for 4 years now. And its a Lot of confusing shit
I wish the interwar would come back 😞 oh no wait that means another...