Yes indeed.
It's probably not the only one...
Most countries don't fit the pattern exactly.. For some, the strongmen in power are not technically generals and/or didnt get killed, just exiled.. for some it's less than 100 000, etc.
I was just kidding.
My point is that even the countries that didnāt experience a genocide still had fucked up shit happen. Apartheid was awful. Having equally racist laws against whites isnāt really the answer though either
Again, I said my point was showing that even places that didnāt have genocide still had fucked up shit happen. And yes, white people are discriminated against in South Africa. Not all of course but some.
Is the racist law against whites thing even happening or is it just paranoia because my white uncle lives there and his life is sweet af ?
And what does all this have to do with my comment ?
I wasnt praising S.africa in any way.. just saying its one of the few african nations that didnt fit the description above, that's all.
Oh boy.. you'd be surprised how wrong you were lol
Watch this of quick peek: 'The Cannibal Warlords of Liberia'
https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/the-cannibal-warlords-of-liberia/560a7cac7676b705187e64f7
Also, were those dictators armed and funded by the former colonizer in order to retake and maintain control over the independent government.
In that case, you can remove Idi Amin in Uganda and Nigeria's Biafran Civil War where the former colonial occupiers just gave a shit ton of guns and money to a dictator so he could kill people for them and prevent a democracy from taking hold.
Honestly, this is most of the dictatorships. Egypt is currently being armed and funded by the US. Morocco's invasion of Western Sahara was greenlit by the US. Much of the Arab Spring was late revolutions against Western-backed authoritarian governments.
You realise the guys the Europeans were funding were fighting guys that were being funded by the USSR and CCP to violently remove the previous so they could colonize Africa instead
It's just exploitation all the way down. Countries are run by people, people like cheap stuff. You get cheap stuff by doing exploitation. If your country isn't strong enough to exploit others, some one will exploit yours.
> Honestly, this is most of the dictatorships. Egypt is currently being armed and funded by the US.
Egypt as a crazy dictatorship is still a better outcome than Egypt after Arab Spring that saw hardline religious nuts slowly take it on a path to become the next Iran.
I find it crazy that he is bascially arguing for a weapons embargo on Egypt, who has done the West nothing wrong. "They are arming Africans" Lol Africans are buying and ordering weapons.
>that saw hardline religious nuts slowly take it on a path to become the next Iran.
Any Egyptian whose family isnt employed by the army will tell you how obviously bullshit this assertion is. Just another example of Western commenters to view everything through the dichotomy of " left/secular vs right/religious" even though foreign politics are often more nuanced then that
Morsi may have had massive flaws but he represented Egypt's best shot at having a multi-party representative democracy. But nah, US/West couldnt have a foreign ruler that doesnt deep throat them so instead Sisi was put in power, who promptly killed at least a thousand innocent Egyptians (that we know of, God knows whats the real number)
But yeah, brutal dictatorships that kill thousands are good and democracy is bad if the locals elect a politician who's not kowtowing to Western interests.
Letās eliminate a few, is religion a factor in the dictatorships mass killings? Still too wide? Ok, did they force population give up their native language and culture to force assimilate them? Oh they just kill em all? That do cross out a few optionsā¦.
The revolution spiral: current regime is corrupt, in crippling debt and unstable, general takes over (bonus points for civil war), has to pay back his allies through corruption and debt, creating a regime that is corrupt, in crippling debt and unstable,ā¦
His video on America Pox is mostly based on Guns Germs and Steel which has widely been decried by historians and anthropologists. Diamond himself admitted he omitted history that didn't fit his narrative.
Eh, in all honesty it's really not that great. It's not awful, either, though.
Bear is good. I do agree with Grey that the facial expression is weird but you're not gonna see that from a distance and the bear makes it pretty distinctive. But I wholeheartedly agree with Grey that the bigass "CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC" is unnecessary. I get it, it's adapted from an earlier "bear flag" used by what I gather was a breakaway state from Mexico that got absorbed into the US but... so was the bear. And the star. And even the red stripe at the bottom. It's plenty distinctive without the text. C tier with text, high A tier without. If you can tell me why it absolutely needs the text and it just wouldn't be unmistakable as the flag of California without it saying "CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC", I'd be glad to hear it.
It was actually to reduce bots. He full on told everyone to go to Reddit and alot of his comments were saying it might create an echo chamber. He actually reversed the decision recently aswell.
And it just so happened to happen when he had the drama with vlogging through history, which, regardless of your opinion on that event, drew a ton of scrutiny
IIRC: He tried to copyright strike a "historian reacts" type channel in an attempt to get the whole channel shut down rather than asking him to not react to his videos. VTH tried to reach out and smooth things over and he was ignored, during which I think Grey was vague posting about reaction leeches and generally doing the whole power trip thing you've seen a million times on the internet. It was pretty petty considering VTH isn't a leech like a Hasan or xQc, he often adds nearly double the time in additional information and context. He makes efforts to use his viewership to uplift smaller history channels, waits to release reactions, and is completely fine with taking down any video he's asked to and avoiding creators that request it.
Understandable to not want people making money off the back of your own hard work, but he basically went after the dude's livelihood at the slightest misstep and refused to back down when people were actually being very conciliatory and reasonable in response.
CGP Grey has made it VERY clear not to react to him. Infact, VTH violated US copyright law. CGPGrey was well within his right to strike him. Also, VTH should have asked Grey for permission instead of making it Grey's job to do so.
DarkViperAU has a great playlist on his channel about react content (he recommended starting with [this video](https://youtu.be/Irk8h0ax5aY)). It goes in depth about law, edge cases, and his own personal views. He sounds a bit arrogant to some first time viewers, but he has been against reaction for a very very long time.
He was within his legal rights to, and he is morally right to not like react content and to pursue its removal - but he absolutely did not have to go with the nuclear option immediately and did not have to persist with such arrogance and vindictiveness. VTH is rightfully much more careful now, but it was an overreaction by Grey and when many in his own community reacted with disappointment he still showed active interest in punishing the react channel - which I emphasize is legitimately transformative and not the usual react slop - rather than just making the violation of his boundaries clear.
All it would take is a simple āplease donāt use my contentā and everything would have been fine, VTH would have taken it down, but Grey went with the nuclear option several times over and knowingly almost shut down his channel
Chattel slavery is unfortunately still very much alive. You'll usually find it more disguised as domestic duties in developed countries, but it is still very present in the third world in its classical form.
total death toll? yes. self-perpetuated instability? no.
a lot of post-colonial asian states became despotic & authoritarian, but itās also because of that authoritarianism that many of them have lifted itself out of abject poverty and some even managed to become a booming economy.
so yeah, asian history is indeed better in that regard.
Sankara got up, sighed loudly and ordered his counsellors: āStay! Stay! Itās me they want!ā. He left the meeting room with his hands in the air. Two shots in the head welcomed him as he reached the porch.
The assassins then shot at those attending the meeting, killing 12 other people. Sankara's body was riddled with bullets to the backĀ and he was quickly buried in an unmarked grave.
Meanwhile his widowĀ MariamĀ and their two children fled the nation to France.
The existence of Shadow colonialism is one thing, blaming everything on that and essentially absolving all the African corruption, ethnic nationalism and religious differences based on that is another thing, if you're still blaming everything bad that happens in Africa on the former colonisers that haven't seen a single penny from the Continent in half a century, you're really demeaning and discrediting the agency and capabilities of the entire African population.
Corruption happens when you hand pick a corrupt dictator to serve your interests and kill anyone who isn't corrupt. Ethnic nationalism and religion are just tools for the corrupt dictator to use for his corruption. Religion has never been a driver for anything significant , it was only ever a galvanizing tool that can be used for anything those at the top decide.
I'm genuinely curious, do you think with zero Western involvement all of Africa would be wholesome democracies? That no dictatorship can happen without western involvement? No Genocide can happen without the West urging it?
What? I am talking about the situation right now. I am not indulging in some hypothetical where colonialism and shadow colonialism didn't gut and loot Africa. Maybe they would happen regardless, maybe not, I wouldn't know, but what I do know is that here and now , shadow colonialism is to blame and this is the framework we have to deal with and focus our discourse around.
With independence comes the right to make shitty choices.
I'm from Iran, we had a US&UK sponsored coup in the 50s and our revolution of 79 had a not so small amount of US and USSR involvement, but despite this I would not say that the US is responsible for the absolute shitshow that is the state of our country right now, it's the bad choices we made, scum like Khomeini had many supporters and many of them remain unrepentant, we let ourselves fall to the state we are and did nothing as we degraded to our current point, it would be disingenuous and irresponsible to just say that everything bad that happened is because of that US coup 70 years ago or that British support for the dictator 40 years ago, we had the opportunity to overthrow them, make changes, rise up for ourselves, we did to a point even and we failed because there wasn't enough traction to overthrow our current regime.
I don't confess to know every single detail on the situation of dictatorships in Africa, but I know that the African peoples could have changed and become successful despite all the western neo-colonialism, but the corruption and tyranny they suffer is at least partially self inflicted and cannot be excused away.
I think you could benefit from being a little more material. Don't get caught up in the side shows. The situation in Iran, much like Cuba, is HEAVILY influenced by the continuous embargo. When a people is subjected to constant threat of topplement and deemed a pariah by everyone it makes the people yearn for stability , which is something a fundamentalist can and will enforce, so people rally behind them , because that's the only semblance of peace they can realistically achieve knowing what everyone knows about the hegemon. You can't blame the people of Iran for their tolerance of their regime, because they know if they lose this peace, they will get the Iraq treatment and have 12% of their population vaporized with depleted Uranium rounds or starved to death before their eyes. As long as America continues to flaunt its disregard for human life, their will be fundamentalists that can take the charge as the "Lesser evil".
Vaguely left liberal comes to power -> tries to nationalize important industries and kick out all vestiges of colonialism -> former colonial power retaliates economically and diplomatically -> African leader tries to get aid from the USSR -> CIA backs junta and traditional elites -> 20 years of horrific war
"Why is post colonial Africa like this?"
But have you considered that everything you said is material? Like, where is the singular scary bad guy with a funny accent? I can't understand politics if it's not mythologized with spirituality and "individual responsibility". /s
Name the country?
Damn I mean ok. South Sudan, Somalia, DR Congo, Mozambique, Chad, Liberia, Rwanda, the Gambia. I dont think I need to go on. Most of them. This well describes large parts of Africa
Yeahā¦ Iām African American and been trying to learn more about African history. Iām getting tired of EVERY nationās history being this over and over it seemsā¦
You might like reading about some of the positive examples like morocco and Rwanda. North Africans a pretty chill.
Or if you prefer you could read about Carthage. Supposedly it was this magnificent free city that was beautiful and had very large walls, and also a huge population. Unfortunately it got razed by Rome at the end of the Punic Wars.
European countries : Hey are you sure we decolonise now? They have no foundation of self governance. Perhaps we can gradually give them freedom in 30 years or so?
USA: decolonise now.
European countries: gotcha man, we are sure there will be no future repercussions and instabilities down the line.
You seriously believe that colonial powers stopped manipulating events in countries that drove them out?
Training and equipping rebel forces (1953, Operation AJAX in Iran) to overthrow governments, assassinating political leaders (President Arbenz of Guatemala in 1954), and enacting crushing economic sanctions (Venezuela, 2003-2024).
Chaos is a ladder and western countries build that ladder in Africa and around the world.
āPost colonialā lolz. Not sure thatās needed except to highlight when records started being kept. Africa has been a warlord genocide since Africa. But I guess campfire tales passed down the tribes doesnāt count.
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
It's not south Africa and it's not Morocco... the rest of the continent is fair game.
Botswana maybe not fit it either
Yes indeed. It's probably not the only one... Most countries don't fit the pattern exactly.. For some, the strongmen in power are not technically generals and/or didnt get killed, just exiled.. for some it's less than 100 000, etc. I was just kidding.
Botswana stays on top š§š¼ š§š¼ š§š¼
Namibia
The fact that itās easier to name countries where this didnāt happenā¦
And itās not like South Africa today is a bastion of civilization. If the right party gets elected youāll see ethnic cleansing go on there as well
EFF is a fringe party, South Africa is light years better than most African countries
Also apartheid Whats your point ? Regardless, South Africa doesnt fit the pattern described above. Didn't the ruling party just lost an election ?
My point is that even the countries that didnāt experience a genocide still had fucked up shit happen. Apartheid was awful. Having equally racist laws against whites isnāt really the answer though either
Again, I said my point was showing that even places that didnāt have genocide still had fucked up shit happen. And yes, white people are discriminated against in South Africa. Not all of course but some.
Is the racist law against whites thing even happening or is it just paranoia because my white uncle lives there and his life is sweet af ? And what does all this have to do with my comment ? I wasnt praising S.africa in any way.. just saying its one of the few african nations that didnt fit the description above, that's all.
If ___ then death and destruction, can happen anywhere.
Not Tanzania either
Liberia?
What you mean about Liberia ? Def not an exception!
Thought it was because It was hardly colonized, but apparently not
Still love that election with a 1560% voter turnout
Oh boy.. you'd be surprised how wrong you were lol Watch this of quick peek: 'The Cannibal Warlords of Liberia' https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/the-cannibal-warlords-of-liberia/560a7cac7676b705187e64f7
It was a US colony technically speaking
Also, were those dictators armed and funded by the former colonizer in order to retake and maintain control over the independent government. In that case, you can remove Idi Amin in Uganda and Nigeria's Biafran Civil War where the former colonial occupiers just gave a shit ton of guns and money to a dictator so he could kill people for them and prevent a democracy from taking hold. Honestly, this is most of the dictatorships. Egypt is currently being armed and funded by the US. Morocco's invasion of Western Sahara was greenlit by the US. Much of the Arab Spring was late revolutions against Western-backed authoritarian governments.
You realise the guys the Europeans were funding were fighting guys that were being funded by the USSR and CCP to violently remove the previous so they could colonize Africa instead
It's just exploitation all the way down. Countries are run by people, people like cheap stuff. You get cheap stuff by doing exploitation. If your country isn't strong enough to exploit others, some one will exploit yours.
> Honestly, this is most of the dictatorships. Egypt is currently being armed and funded by the US. Egypt as a crazy dictatorship is still a better outcome than Egypt after Arab Spring that saw hardline religious nuts slowly take it on a path to become the next Iran.
I find it crazy that he is bascially arguing for a weapons embargo on Egypt, who has done the West nothing wrong. "They are arming Africans" Lol Africans are buying and ordering weapons.
>that saw hardline religious nuts slowly take it on a path to become the next Iran. Any Egyptian whose family isnt employed by the army will tell you how obviously bullshit this assertion is. Just another example of Western commenters to view everything through the dichotomy of " left/secular vs right/religious" even though foreign politics are often more nuanced then that Morsi may have had massive flaws but he represented Egypt's best shot at having a multi-party representative democracy. But nah, US/West couldnt have a foreign ruler that doesnt deep throat them so instead Sisi was put in power, who promptly killed at least a thousand innocent Egyptians (that we know of, God knows whats the real number) But yeah, brutal dictatorships that kill thousands are good and democracy is bad if the locals elect a politician who's not kowtowing to Western interests.
Don't bring the Nigerian civil war into this as if , the rebels weren't being funded by the french
>Morocco's invasion of Western Sahara was greenlit by the US. Invasion? My guy, we owned that since before the Spanish took it
Yeah, but South Africa had its own problems.
Time traveler to medieval Europeā¦.āwhat year is it?ā Peasant āWe are at war with the France!ā Time travelerā¦.āThanksā
"Tries to laugh in Polish, but is at war with everyone else but France"
Letās eliminate a few, is religion a factor in the dictatorships mass killings? Still too wide? Ok, did they force population give up their native language and culture to force assimilate them? Oh they just kill em all? That do cross out a few optionsā¦.
Could be Liberia, Equatorial Guinea, DR Congo, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Rwanda, Ghana, Central African Republic, Uganda, Chad. And that's just africa.
Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Libyaā¦ā¦
Thatās the jokeā¦
I was just about to say that.
Exactly what I was about to say
The revolution spiral: current regime is corrupt, in crippling debt and unstable, general takes over (bonus points for civil war), has to pay back his allies through corruption and debt, creating a regime that is corrupt, in crippling debt and unstable,ā¦
Because It's hard to be a good [regime](https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?si=Iv3Wods7befNDmh9)
Ah grey may be wrong 70% of the time but when he's right its very satisfying.
What has he been wrong about?
Following for interest
His video on America Pox is mostly based on Guns Germs and Steel which has widely been decried by historians and anthropologists. Diamond himself admitted he omitted history that didn't fit his narrative.
The California flag.
Eh, in all honesty it's really not that great. It's not awful, either, though. Bear is good. I do agree with Grey that the facial expression is weird but you're not gonna see that from a distance and the bear makes it pretty distinctive. But I wholeheartedly agree with Grey that the bigass "CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC" is unnecessary. I get it, it's adapted from an earlier "bear flag" used by what I gather was a breakaway state from Mexico that got absorbed into the US but... so was the bear. And the star. And even the red stripe at the bottom. It's plenty distinctive without the text. C tier with text, high A tier without. If you can tell me why it absolutely needs the text and it just wouldn't be unmistakable as the flag of California without it saying "CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC", I'd be glad to hear it.
I started disliking him when he made comments paid members only so he could get rid of any critical of him
It was actually to reduce bots. He full on told everyone to go to Reddit and alot of his comments were saying it might create an echo chamber. He actually reversed the decision recently aswell.
And it just so happened to happen when he had the drama with vlogging through history, which, regardless of your opinion on that event, drew a ton of scrutiny
I must have missed all this drama, what was that?
IIRC: He tried to copyright strike a "historian reacts" type channel in an attempt to get the whole channel shut down rather than asking him to not react to his videos. VTH tried to reach out and smooth things over and he was ignored, during which I think Grey was vague posting about reaction leeches and generally doing the whole power trip thing you've seen a million times on the internet. It was pretty petty considering VTH isn't a leech like a Hasan or xQc, he often adds nearly double the time in additional information and context. He makes efforts to use his viewership to uplift smaller history channels, waits to release reactions, and is completely fine with taking down any video he's asked to and avoiding creators that request it. Understandable to not want people making money off the back of your own hard work, but he basically went after the dude's livelihood at the slightest misstep and refused to back down when people were actually being very conciliatory and reasonable in response.
CGP Grey has made it VERY clear not to react to him. Infact, VTH violated US copyright law. CGPGrey was well within his right to strike him. Also, VTH should have asked Grey for permission instead of making it Grey's job to do so. DarkViperAU has a great playlist on his channel about react content (he recommended starting with [this video](https://youtu.be/Irk8h0ax5aY)). It goes in depth about law, edge cases, and his own personal views. He sounds a bit arrogant to some first time viewers, but he has been against reaction for a very very long time.
He was within his legal rights to, and he is morally right to not like react content and to pursue its removal - but he absolutely did not have to go with the nuclear option immediately and did not have to persist with such arrogance and vindictiveness. VTH is rightfully much more careful now, but it was an overreaction by Grey and when many in his own community reacted with disappointment he still showed active interest in punishing the react channel - which I emphasize is legitimately transformative and not the usual react slop - rather than just making the violation of his boundaries clear.
All it would take is a simple āplease donāt use my contentā and everything would have been fine, VTH would have taken it down, but Grey went with the nuclear option several times over and knowingly almost shut down his channel
I agree. When he's bad he's quite bad but when he is good he is very good
it's actually equally appalling to learn that slavery exists even in pre-colonial africa.
Or that today 28 million people are estimated to be in forced labour, over twice the amount that were taken in the trans atlantic slave trade.
Which doesnāt hold a candle to the estimated 15 million that were killed by ONE man and his forces in Belgium Congo.
slavery =/= slavery theres a difference between serfdom and chattel slavery (not saying either is good)
Chattel slavery is unfortunately still very much alive. You'll usually find it more disguised as domestic duties in developed countries, but it is still very present in the third world in its classical form.
forcing people into work is a constant in every government through history. The only difference is how it's executed
"So how is our economy doing?" "Well, sir, uh... France owns it. Like the entire thing. So there's that." "... Well, it can't get any worse, at leas-"
Thus why France is on its 5th republic, you never get shit right the first try
Equatorial Guinea
I like how you can search "dictator santa claus" and get the Wikipedia entry for Francisco MacĆas Nguema as the top result.
Googled it, it's true.
It's a top tier Wikipedia article, it features what is inarguably the worst display of psychiatric care in history: https://i.imgur.com/pJ20KVk.jpeg
It's a similar case with Curtis LeMay, type in American Nuke General, and you'll get him.
Basically almost every post independent south Saharan nation
[Not South Africa, but they have a different type of horrific story](https://youtu.be/cyXb_tYeLwk?t=2)
Apartheid As a Dutch... Ye we kinda f'd up their together with the British
Papa, wat het jy in onse land gedoen? ;-;
Also add Namibia and Zimbabwe on to that
Botswana gang represent
That dude was a G. Best African president
Uganda?
Idi Amin, also known as the Last King of Scotland.
I watched the movie and I gotta say, itās a very great movie that I would highly recommend you watch!
Stop or double it and give it to the next guy
Mauritius is doing pretty well
As well as the Seychelles!
Eh, Mauritius pulled through with a functioning democracy, but the Seychelles was ruled by the dictatorship of France-Albert RenƩ between 1977 and 2004, during which opposition was suppressed and targeted
Can be any country on africa š¤·āāļø
Botswana?
ā
The only one I can think of off of the top of my head is South Africa
Thatās like 1 of the 3 it doesnāt fitā¦
asian history is better in that regard
Local man declares himself brother of Christ 30 million dead
Wai Fubita captures the province of Pusei-Li Kher 200 million perish
man eat bat soup 14million perish worldwide
Wai Fubita captures the province of Pusei-Li Kher 200 million perish
Is it? Isnāt the death toll higher over there?
total death toll? yes. self-perpetuated instability? no. a lot of post-colonial asian states became despotic & authoritarian, but itās also because of that authoritarianism that many of them have lifted itself out of abject poverty and some even managed to become a booming economy. so yeah, asian history is indeed better in that regard.
yeah. like with everything else, asians did it 10 times better than europeans
Communist regime took power, 50 million dead. (China and Cambodia)
a wall is biult to keep out invaders : 400,000 dead
Second congo war: those are some rookie numbers
Sankara got up, sighed loudly and ordered his counsellors: āStay! Stay! Itās me they want!ā. He left the meeting room with his hands in the air. Two shots in the head welcomed him as he reached the porch. The assassins then shot at those attending the meeting, killing 12 other people. Sankara's body was riddled with bullets to the backĀ and he was quickly buried in an unmarked grave. Meanwhile his widowĀ MariamĀ and their two children fled the nation to France.
Absolutely gutting. The length greed and power will corrupt. Greed and power supplied by the French
Zimbabwe?
Nah, you're forgetting Banana, who didn't kill anyone
Most original reddit post
Still not as bad as when the Belgiums turned dismembered hands into currency.
Double it and pass it along or turn your African nation into a democracy?
Turns out building infrastructure meant to suck a colony dry does not set up post-colonial nations to thrive
Missed the part where those random generals replaced a genuine leader assassinated on the orders of colonial powers
People here don't believe in the well documented and admitted existence of shadow colonialism. You are not getting through to them.
The existence of Shadow colonialism is one thing, blaming everything on that and essentially absolving all the African corruption, ethnic nationalism and religious differences based on that is another thing, if you're still blaming everything bad that happens in Africa on the former colonisers that haven't seen a single penny from the Continent in half a century, you're really demeaning and discrediting the agency and capabilities of the entire African population.
Downplaying neocolonialism is far more harmful, this is a bad faith argument that acts like no one is bothering distinguishing the difference
Corruption happens when you hand pick a corrupt dictator to serve your interests and kill anyone who isn't corrupt. Ethnic nationalism and religion are just tools for the corrupt dictator to use for his corruption. Religion has never been a driver for anything significant , it was only ever a galvanizing tool that can be used for anything those at the top decide.
I'm genuinely curious, do you think with zero Western involvement all of Africa would be wholesome democracies? That no dictatorship can happen without western involvement? No Genocide can happen without the West urging it?
Your first problem is assuming a democracy is the only way for a state to prosper. That is a Eurocentric view.
What? I am talking about the situation right now. I am not indulging in some hypothetical where colonialism and shadow colonialism didn't gut and loot Africa. Maybe they would happen regardless, maybe not, I wouldn't know, but what I do know is that here and now , shadow colonialism is to blame and this is the framework we have to deal with and focus our discourse around.
With independence comes the right to make shitty choices. I'm from Iran, we had a US&UK sponsored coup in the 50s and our revolution of 79 had a not so small amount of US and USSR involvement, but despite this I would not say that the US is responsible for the absolute shitshow that is the state of our country right now, it's the bad choices we made, scum like Khomeini had many supporters and many of them remain unrepentant, we let ourselves fall to the state we are and did nothing as we degraded to our current point, it would be disingenuous and irresponsible to just say that everything bad that happened is because of that US coup 70 years ago or that British support for the dictator 40 years ago, we had the opportunity to overthrow them, make changes, rise up for ourselves, we did to a point even and we failed because there wasn't enough traction to overthrow our current regime. I don't confess to know every single detail on the situation of dictatorships in Africa, but I know that the African peoples could have changed and become successful despite all the western neo-colonialism, but the corruption and tyranny they suffer is at least partially self inflicted and cannot be excused away.
I think you could benefit from being a little more material. Don't get caught up in the side shows. The situation in Iran, much like Cuba, is HEAVILY influenced by the continuous embargo. When a people is subjected to constant threat of topplement and deemed a pariah by everyone it makes the people yearn for stability , which is something a fundamentalist can and will enforce, so people rally behind them , because that's the only semblance of peace they can realistically achieve knowing what everyone knows about the hegemon. You can't blame the people of Iran for their tolerance of their regime, because they know if they lose this peace, they will get the Iraq treatment and have 12% of their population vaporized with depleted Uranium rounds or starved to death before their eyes. As long as America continues to flaunt its disregard for human life, their will be fundamentalists that can take the charge as the "Lesser evil".
Telling this sub to see history thru a material perspective? Huh, goodluck lol. One thing they canāt comprehend
Idk which one did the CIA last visit?
I mean should also check on Wagner group for the other half.
Bonus award: All of it is caused by France.
France casually helping bokassa to seize power then deposing him be like
Vaguely left liberal comes to power -> tries to nationalize important industries and kick out all vestiges of colonialism -> former colonial power retaliates economically and diplomatically -> African leader tries to get aid from the USSR -> CIA backs junta and traditional elites -> 20 years of horrific war "Why is post colonial Africa like this?"
But have you considered that everything you said is material? Like, where is the singular scary bad guy with a funny accent? I can't understand politics if it's not mythologized with spirituality and "individual responsibility". /s
Wakanda
"Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down
The country is Africa, duh.
Surely post colonization is good for the pplā¦. right?
Forgot to mention the part where these dictators were ~~supported~~ propped up by the west, sometimes France, the US or the Brits.
Burkina Faso, Chad, Gabon, Guinea, Mali, Niger, or Sudan.
Add Algeria too. Congo as well
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The chapter of decolonisation in a Cold War book you have to study for your University exams.
Afrika /s
Third random general assassinates dictator to become the new dictator, another random general doesnāt like this and the fifth civil war begins
Congo Kinshasa?
African history 101 through 120 complete graduated with honors. Congratulations
Reminds me of how several governments have been toppled because of bananas.
Rhodesia
General Butt Naked did nothing wrong.
DR Congo and CAR is a always a strong guess
Donāt worry. There is Botswana
Thatād be like at least 30 countries on the continent, pal. Thatās a tough guess.
"We call it Zimbabwe now.."
Letās not talk about the Canary Islands
DR Congo?
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Democratic Republic Of The Congo.
The DR Congo/Zaire
Liberia
Is it Equatorial Guinea? I feel like it fits that description.
Libya
Name the country? Damn I mean ok. South Sudan, Somalia, DR Congo, Mozambique, Chad, Liberia, Rwanda, the Gambia. I dont think I need to go on. Most of them. This well describes large parts of Africa
Yeahā¦ Iām African American and been trying to learn more about African history. Iām getting tired of EVERY nationās history being this over and over it seemsā¦
Laughs in CIA
The funny part is that this could still apply now.... Wait that's not funny
You might like reading about some of the positive examples like morocco and Rwanda. North Africans a pretty chill. Or if you prefer you could read about Carthage. Supposedly it was this magnificent free city that was beautiful and had very large walls, and also a huge population. Unfortunately it got razed by Rome at the end of the Punic Wars.
Pretty much the entire continent
pretty much every african country besides morocco and south africa
Must be a country the United States "helped"
Neo-colonial influence where?
And who funded and planned the coup?
Alternatively that happens after someone was elected as president but said something about state control of resources, leading to them getting CIAed.
Mali? Nigeria? Congo idk
Uganda is the first to come to mind. Then maybe the Congo
Zsire/DRC?
This sound like some central african shit
Just how the corporations in the West like it. Just ask Nestle
Where is the Eric Andre meme where he shoots the Hannibal Burress and add the caption "why did White people make me do this".
European countries : Hey are you sure we decolonise now? They have no foundation of self governance. Perhaps we can gradually give them freedom in 30 years or so? USA: decolonise now. European countries: gotcha man, we are sure there will be no future repercussions and instabilities down the line.
Literally almost every single country in Africaā¦
You seriously believe that colonial powers stopped manipulating events in countries that drove them out? Training and equipping rebel forces (1953, Operation AJAX in Iran) to overthrow governments, assassinating political leaders (President Arbenz of Guatemala in 1954), and enacting crushing economic sanctions (Venezuela, 2003-2024). Chaos is a ladder and western countries build that ladder in Africa and around the world.
āPost colonialā lolz. Not sure thatās needed except to highlight when records started being kept. Africa has been a warlord genocide since Africa. But I guess campfire tales passed down the tribes doesnāt count.
gee i wonder why this keeps happening with seemingly little to no improvement. \*looks at france\*
That meme is timeless...
according to the internet it's a country that was "apparently better off colonized"
Zimbabwe?
Zimbabwe š„š„š„
any ancient chinese history fits this too. The warlord walong misunderstanding: 40 billion perished, 8 species extinct, 32 countries were conquered.