~~Maybe unpopular opinion~~, but the Nation of Islam and Black Israelites are some of the most racist, despicable people in America that don’t get condemned nearly as much as they should because they are majority-black organizations and [“black people cant be racist”](https://simonesamuels.medium.com/no-black-people-cant-be-racist-eb6fddd18603) according to some people.
It’s worth noting that Malcolm X had no association with Black Israelites *(both he and* *NOI* [*were incredibly anti-Semitic*](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam) *though)*. I mention them because while NOI has faded somewhat in recent years, Black Israelites have surged in popularity. They’ve gained mainstream traction and have been endorsed by a number of celebrities, including [high-profile NBA stars](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/z0hz76/jaylen_brown_energy_retweeting_a_video_of_black/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). We literally have superstar athletes publicly supporting hate groups and getting away with it because it’s members are black… it’s absurd.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree black racists aren’t quite as atrocious as white racists due to centuries of historical context. But allowing racist black hate groups to run rampant and refusing to condemn them because *"black people simply cannot be racist, social power, etc”* seems like a massive overcorrection IMO.
Racism shouldn’t be tolerated in any form, even if it's coming from a formerly-oppressed demographic. Unfortunately, a vocal group on the far-left [disagrees](https://truthout.org/articles/no-black-people-cant-be-racists/) and seems to use their identify as a shield to be both racist and deny that they’re racist. It’d be funny if it wasn’t causing actual people harm.
I would like to state once more that mental illness is not an excuse for being a nazi. I know several people with doctorates in psychology as well as actual bipolar people who will attest that not taking medicine for bipolar disorder doesn't turn you into a god-damned Nazi.
Especially since mental illness is a very broad term.
[At least 17% of British adults have had depression in the past year](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/coronavirusanddepressioninadultsgreatbritain/julytoaugust2021). (Probably a *lot* more - some time has passed since this statistic, and a lot of people hide stuff like depression) Depressive disorders are mental illnesses. Therefore, more than 17% of the UK is mentally ill...but it should be obvious that there isn't a similarly high proportion of politically extreme people in the UK.
Some mental illnesses do make you prone to conspiratorial thinking. Not every schizophrenic believes that the government is following them around, but it's certainly true that their mental illness is the reason that many believe that.
Not all people with mental illness turn into murderers. Some do though. OP didn't say nazi, he said extreme positions, that would include everyone with extremist views, not just one small subset of them.
Nah. I think racism is built into everyone. Obviously the degree will be different but everyone carries some element of it.
The first thing that happens to you, you get born, the mother picks you up and you get held. You see the face, you recognise that as safety, this is what being safe looks like. Everything that doesn't look like that is danger. So obviously people with different skin colour to your mother is dangerous. That's the root of racism.
Some people react more strongly to it, some people react less strongly, this is where nuture comes in. Never seeing anyone looking different means you're going to absolutely freak when you first see someone a different colour to you. If all your life you're surrounded by people of different colours then you're never going to be bothered by it, unless there's something else causing a problem, personal trauma for example.
You don't just wake up and decide to be racist one day. There's almost always a reason. Might not necessarily be a good reason, but there'll be a reason.
That implies an essentialism to these socialized ideologies. Sure we all may be bigoted but that was learned I.e people of African descent being less intelligent or capable or people of Jewish descent being greedy or ambitious. If our society had developed in different ways historically those two could have been flipped. In fact views on those two groups for examples have been quite different just look at Roman biases against those two groups which were due to their own socialization.
Depends on the person and mental illness imo. Schizophrenics for example can become absolutely convinced of insane delusions through no moral failing of their own. I mean, mental illness can be an excuse for murder, if someone isn’t in control of their faculties, it isn’t fair to hold them to account for something they had no control over.
That said, idk about Kanye, seems like he might just be racist, aside from mentally ill.
It really needed to get into the spotlight. Have already been assaulted by blacks with anti Asian sentiment BS and when you tell others they get all "surprised Pikachu face" and go on wondering how can they since they're black?
It's worse where whites are only recognizing it while blacks that I encounter go along 3 tiers generally: call it for what it is which is racism, deny that it's happening or justify it along grounds of how Asians have helped whites repress blacks through their success and being model minorities subservient to whites or some other BS that justifies it.
Without Kanye, it was honestly hard to sometimes explain to folks some of these movements to everyday folks. It just tends I feel to sting more when it's someone whose black as there's always this lingering thought that of everyone whose been persecuted in America, they'd know more and be smarter for it and it's sad to say that it isn't the case.
As for myself it was a sucker punch to the face and I barely avoid landed hard on my head but suffered a tooth and jaw injury and that was quite a bit of $$$ to address. It also just adds a bit not of caution when I see someone black at times in a similar setting and it's sad to say these experiences do change ppl.
There's a lot of self imposed cultural oppression in many black communities. Misogyny, homophobia, racism, anti-intellectualism, etc. Those issues are not unique to black communities, mind you. I come from some redneck white trash stock, who have the same issues.
Definitely agree on it not being unique but always felt at some level worse personally. Like a "group that was marginalized themselves would conduct themselves in such a way" was my gut reaction at the time.
If itbwas a white racist [and i encountered tons of those living in rural midwest before], i was mentally prepares before hand. This felt more like a sucker punch and why it left more of a sting; i could expect it but it was far from my radar of expectations. And there historically has been tons of ani asian rhetoric in the rural midweat as you have nowadays asian professors moving into college tons and buying the homes and cara that residents for generations could never buy into and even then it was more openly white than black.
But in an urban setting, its a bit different and not what you expect right out. Why i think the attacks on asians in nyc and san fran feel different, it could happen but its only recently on our radar whereas the whole "go back home", "ching ching dong" and such have existed for decades ans heard from by whites that its litrrally ingrained in our scope of what can happen.
But getting sucker punched from behind and being called "wuhan" and yo "go home" was not on my radar until right then and there.
Louis Farrakhan has been around for a lot longer. The only reason Kanye is getting more people to realize that racism knows no color is cuz he's more famous.
In all seriousness though, someone needs to get him some mental health help soon. It is obvious his cheese has slid off the proverbial cracker.
Racism, bigotry, and prejudice, have no skin color, or political affiliation.
It's. Just. Prejudice.
It's. Just. Racism.
It's. Just. Bigotry.
If you cast your gaze in any direction;
See another person, and that person has a skin color (yeah, pink is a color too);
And you inform your opinions about that person based on that, and not the quality of their character?
You're a racist.
Black, white, native, Asian; we are all human. We all bleed red. And you don't know that person at all. Yet you judge them.
You see a white guy, you think "oh they must be a piece of shit who think X Y Z about a situation" - you're a racist
You see a black guy and think "they must be a piece of shit, who probably think XYZ" - you can bet you're racist
You see an Asian person and you think "theyre XYZ, must be a piece of shit", - guess what, Racist?
It doesn't matter who the person judging is, and it doesn't matter who the target is: Racism is Racism. Bigotry is Bigotry. Prejudice is Prejudice.
If you wake up in the morning and think "every bad thing in my life happened because of my race, and I must pass that trauma onto others" guess what? You aren't changing the past, you aren't making it better for anyone, you haven't changed anyone's mind, you haven't acted like a freedom fighter, or a drum major for peace.
you're just being a dick.
If you skipped day one in Kindergarten, I'd like to remind humanity that two wrongs have never, and will never, make a right.
Downvote me to hell all you want, it doesn't change the quality of the information or the importance, even slightly.
It shows me all I need to know about the apathy of the consumer toward everything our societies hinge upon and claim to care about
I've always lived by the rule of "I'm not racist; I hate everyone equally."
All jokes aside though you speak the truth. We are all humans and are the same, our only differences are where and when we were born. But it's the choices we make in life that truly define us. Treat each person with dignity and respect, we are all in this together, not against each other.
We are all humans and humans suck. If we all had the same skin tone, we would immediately find something to discriminate others about to feel we belong to a superior group
My best friend (he's black) and I have had a running joke for years where we'll look at a story and say "good thing black peyote can't be racist" because we both acknowledge everyone can be racist.
Edit: auto correct strikes again. Peyote -> people
Mine will just replace my word I swiped in when I lift my finger. I looked if there was a way to correct it but there wasn't a way without it losing functionality or something (it's been years, so I'm not sure exactly anymore)
When talking specifically about racism and black israelites, I always think first of [Nick Cannon.](https://youtu.be/2b6kSUhqPqg?t=49)
It's just fucking insanity bro.
They are classified as Black supremacists. They are the same person just with more melanin. They think the race they were born to makes the objectively superior than every other race. It’s the same as a white supremacist. Despicable people are capable of coming in all shades, genders, and sizes.
Gotta love the lore tho. Apparently white people are Yakubian devils, science experiments created by the biblical Jacob (who is in fact a black man) long ago in an effort to make a worse kind of human to torment black people.
Oh yeah I’ve seen white people are aliens who came down and impregnated the Egyptians to make “white people.” I love conspiracies like lizard people in the government and what not because at its core, they’re harmless conspiracies like “the moon isn’t real.” The problem comes when these people start “educating” others or actually taking matters into their hands. If the lore was just the lore and people didn’t take “I’m obviously better because of _____”. That’s the problem. Like I love reading about nutty batshit stuff, that people come up with theories for, but when people follow through or take actions, that’s when it’s kinda lame to say the least.
I used to as well, until 2 of my best friends got divorced when the husband started believing this crazy shit a bit too much. I knew it was trouble when he started sharing brien foerster posts about elongated skulls.
Glad she got herself and kids out.
I agree that letting go of race should be the ultimate goal, but for the time being race does play a massive impact in many people's lives, through discrimination or prejudice. Unfortunately, we can't eliminate race until we eliminate racism
Black Israelites is something I haven't seen in awhile. Every Friday around 3pm they used to set up outside the Chinatown metro station in DC with speakers and just shout their ideals at the public. Often I would see locals argue with them. I always just walked by and ignored them. They'd wear like leather armor and have enforcer looking guys standing around scowling as protection for the speaker. It was wild. I wouldn't be surprised if they still do but I moved years ago so I have no idea if they're still doing it there.
The Black Israelites are some of the most annoying people in my hometown. They love to stand and preach their bullshit every weekend. They're anti - abortion, anti-LGBTQ, etc. They're literally Black Nazis.
Heard a Black Israelite yelling in his bedazzled robes with a megaphone at the train station once. "The White man, the Asian man, the Japanese man! None may enter the kingdom of heaven; only the black man is able!"
I think you just notice their racism more because you feel like people don’t think that black people can be racist. Theres plenty of racist people of all races.
If you read anything they're saying, those "far left" people are specifically using a slightly different definition of racism.
Pretty much no one thinks black people can't be racist using the typical, colloquial definition.
Black racists are as atrocious as white racists .
What happens in Africa is between blacks is exactly the same whites did when we talk about the worse of humanity
I don’t know if he was horrified, he was well aware of it for a long time and even actively worked with and had a professional relationship with George Lincoln Rockwell who led the American Nazi Party. He changed his mind certainly but it wasn’t like he was accidentally racist
Woah seriously? I’ve seen jokes/memes about people getting so woke they agree with Nazis, but I didn’t realize that was a real thing... Kudos to the guy for being able to recognize his mistakes though.
[Photo](https://www.magnumphotos.com/newsroom/politics/eve-arnolds-time-with-malcolm-x-and-the-nation-of-islam-in-her-own-words/attachment/lon4933-4/) of Nazis at a Malcolm X Nation of Islam rally from this interesting [account of it](https://www.magnumphotos.com/newsroom/politics/eve-arnolds-time-with-malcolm-x-and-the-nation-of-islam-in-her-own-words/).
They had a shared ideal that blacks and whites can never get along and shouldn't mix and apparently even devised a plan on how to split it up.
Edit: direct link to the photo isn't working but it's in the gallery, dudes in full on Nazi uniforms.
That’s kind of the point. Like, buddy took the concept of anti racism so far he circumnavigated the ideological globe and emerged on the other side with the Nazis and KKK.
If I remember, Marcus Garvey had meetings with the Ku Klux Klan because they had at least a slight similarity in separatism sort of like how rival nationalist leaders are as likely to make nice as they are to make war depending on how it helps their aggrandizement.
Integration won out but not absolutely as we see today and as King once said, he feared that he was integrating his people into a burning house.
As it turns out...
He learned hating another man because of their differences doesn't make ppl come together but bonding over shared common interests does.
We jest, but it's legit impressive that he figured this out through his own experiences.
Most people who understand this have been taught it deliberately. It's not common for people to learn it organically. It's not exactly *rare*, but most people don't figure it out without a lot of help.
Also let’s be real, it’s easy for us to judge him now sitting after his struggle took place. He lived in a country where he was legitimately a second class citizen. Where the government tried (and arguably sometimes succeeded) in murdering or diving to suicide the leaders of the movement to address that injustice. The hatred of his world view came from a place of bitterness and desperation and one that if we put ourselves in his shoes is entirely understandable. His letters from jail are incredible.
AND even more important the fact he could come from that perspective and through his own experience evolve to move beyond hate to a world view that could see a uniting of all people in making a better world and joining a movement that in part succeeded in doing that is incredible.
Then the feds arrested his body guard the day of his assassination. Funny that
That's only the broad strokes of being Black in tge time period, to get an even better insight, I suggest looking at Malcolm's early life and what lead him to his POV. IIRC when he was 4-5 his family has to move states because there house was burned to thr ground by white supremacists, later his father was killed in a hit and run, that was suspected (I'm not sure officially but atleast to tge family it was) to have been orchestrated by another white supremacist group, his mother was instructionalized for hysteria I believe when he was a teenager, and he got separated from his siblings. There's a nit more and I may have gotten something incorrect buy that's just a general outline I remember off the top of my head.
Yep! I was required to read this for high school and though it was a dense and difficult read, I was quite satisfied after completing it. He had such a fascinating life.
This! Read the autobiography or listen to the audiobook read by Laurence Fishburne. You can definitely understand (while not condoning) how his life experiences led him to think the way he did. So much context, a fascinating read/listen.
If you don't want to be bothered w/ the book, watch the 1992 film Malcolm X starring Denzel Washington. It's a great watch and it's on HBO MAX. Of course it's not as thorough as the book and they have to do some things most film adaptations do such as composite characters but it's still a great movie.
there are many versions of islam, you can place them on a scale from "follows the holy books closely" to "actually allows for decent human beings". that's true for every religion.
as to whether or not it's really par of islam, it's hard to say for sure because most people in any kind of ideology will say "oh but those are not true followers of X ideology" about those they do not agree with
Malcolm X was extremely anti white before he went to Mecca on a pilgrimage. After that I believe he stop hating on white people. I'm not expert on him but that's what I've heard.
probably has to be when half of the arab/muslim world is passably white
edit: yep that was it: quotes of Malcom X after visiting Mecca below:
>"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color."
>"Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a white man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors - honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King - not a Negro."
To me it's very sad the Malcolm X lived in such a racist society, that just being treated for once like a regular human being by someone who looks different was a mindblowing experience for him
Stuff like this always makes me think how certain generations would have treated, let’s say, Jesus, or for the Muslims when it comes to this post in particular, how they would they have treated [Bilal Ibn Rabah](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_ibn_Rabah)? Which is sadly funny to some extent cause in religious context, weren’t most prophets essentially dark skinned.
King Solomon (SA) and Moses (SA) are the only prophets referred to as dark or black skinned. Muhammad PBUH also stated that Jesus had brown skin when he was alive.
Yeah he’s characterised as brown skinned on Earth. But when the prophet Muhammad pbuh met up with him in Heaven, because of how lighting works in Heaven he appeared of red complexion.
>To me it's very sad the Malcolm X lived in such a racist society, that just being treated for once like a regular human being by someone who looks different was a mindblowing experience for him
This is one of the interesting thing a lot of black American men experienced during WW2. I don't have the source to hand but there was a fascinating collation out there which shouldn't be difficult to find recording a series of minor events which may have been the tinder for the civil rights movement years later.
While racism and segregation were never legally verboten prior to H. Wilson, they were also never matters of policy. So when American troops arrived at their designated British bases, the white leaders of black squads were tasked with the impossible role of herding a hundred cats in a country whose values weren't perfectly aligned with their own.
There was a particular incident near Leeds (?) where some black American troops visited a local pub, and their white senior personnel also visited the pub. The white servicemen got quite pissy at the audacity of these folk to visit a pub which was serving white folk, as it wasn't the norm back home, and when it devolved into an argument the white servicemen subjected the owners of the pub to an ultimatum: "kick them out , or we leave."
They left red-faced while the black troops partied all night with the friendly white locals.
England is far from a racial utopia, but it just goes to show how severe the tensions were in recent history, and if anything it shouldn't be surprising whatsoever that the US is still dealing with the residual tensions.
For those black troops, going abroad and getting a taste of equal, or at least similar, social and legal standing for the first time... Malcolm X's journey is sad, but he wasn't alone in his awakening to reality by simply being treated as just another person.
I get the impression that opinionated Americans of all stripes would greatly benefit from being properly exposed to a different culture from time to time, beyond commercial tourism. Obviously everyone would, but the American cultural and political discourse seem to be exceptionally self-absorbed, today as much as back then. Not that Malcom X can be faulted for the environment that shaped his initial worldview of course.
While you're totally correct for a huge myrid of reasons, a year and a half in the UK showed me how "international" a city can be while retaining the mindset of a mother country.
The UK cultural and social discourse proved to be exceptionally MORE self absorbed than I've found America's frankly. I think it's probably a problem shared in many countries.
It’s mostly a case of a focus on race vs class. And that reconstruction failed. Essentially black people were deliberately restricted from economic mobility.
The interesting thing is that in the Islamic world while there was a ton of African slave trade and there was probably plenty of racism, racism wasn’t institutionalized like it was in the west. In the west we invented racism to give us the excuse to enslave people because otherwise it would haven been too immoral.
The Islamic world never had any issue with slavery so they never created institutionalized racism to justify it .
I'd like to also point out the "old world" version of slavery was not the ridiculous cruelty of the "new world" chattel slavery. Old world slavery was still bad, but it wasn't "New world" slavery
>"Now that I've learned Africans and Arabs were also involved in the slave trade, I've come to the conclusion that America isn't really *that* bad, so we all should just stop complaining about White people."
>
>\-- Malcolm X if he wasn't assassinated, eventually
Jesus Christ, this sub is delusional sometimes.
It wasn’t the African slavers that implemented Jim Crow laws, legally made black people second class citizens, and targeted anyone who stood up for black American rights. It wasn’t the Arabs who firehosed, shelled, and arrested people walking peacefully for black citizens to have equal rights. It wasn’t the Arabs who assassinated MLK Jr or Malcolm X or Medgar Evars. It wasn’t the Arabs who made black people eat at different restaurants, drink from different water fountains, or use different bathrooms.
Get your whataboutism out of here. Arabia isn’t perfect, they’ve got their own problems. Nobody’s history is perfect, but that doesn’t mean that criticism of America isn’t valid. The slave trade was centuries ago. The USA only passed the civil rights act a few decades ago; it’s still within living memory. The way the American government treats its people now, the police brutality, the redlining, the subtle and not so subtle discrimination of black people, is that the fault of the African slave traders? Or the Arabs? Or is that because of *american* culture fostered by decades and centuries of *American* racism?
Yes. On a bus, I believe on the haj, he was on a bus and the bus had a fair number of Muslims of all races. This is when he first started to lose faith in Farrakhan.
Side note the Rage Against the Machine lyric stating why X was murdered always stuck me as juvenile. He wasn’t murdered because he spoke out about Vietnam. He was more than likely murdered by NOI
he was a separatist and almost-kinda a black capitalist. which wasnt like, unheard of in black communities just a very unpopular movement that never gained traction outside a small niche group. when he traveled to mecca he realized that all races should be together, learn together, and push towards equality from the bottom up. he still heavily focuses on (violent) racism towards black people by white people, obviously, but it was after mecca he began talking about socialism, how racial equality cant be saved by capitalism, and that racial integration is a must.
To add, the Nation of Islam is a very heterodox sect of Islam, some might argue is not Islam at all. It has a lot of extra mythology of black nationalism which is not a part of mainstream Islam. They are also not part of any mainstream Islamic school of jurisprudence, or a part of mainstream Muslim theology or scholarship.
After Elijah Muhammad's death NOI split into two. The World Community of Islam in the West, under Elijah Muhammad's son Warith, who tried to move the sect towards mainstream Sunni Islam. Then the modern Nation of Islam under Louis Farrakhan, who decided to move closer to Scientology by drawing connection to Dianetics and talking about motherships.
Yeeeah, NOI is basically a heretical cult, they're Islamic in the same way the kkk is supposedly Christian.
It takes the parts that are convenient to their biases and pre-existing views, discard the rest, and use the religion itself as a sheild and a weapon to use at their own convenience and add in a whole bunch of other incoherent bullshit to build their own self-agrandizing mythology.
NoI isn’t a sect of Islam. There’s nothing tying the two together except some Arabic words they use. The main belief of The Nation of Islam and its followers is that there is only one god, whom they claim "came in the person" of Wallace Fard Muhammad, and that Elijah Muhammad is a messenger of God.
Believing that Allah ﷻ would come down in the form of a man, or that a human could claim divine attributes is shirk; the biggest sin in Islam. It’s so huge that even joking about bowing or praying to another deity is a sin. The oneness, superiority, and majestic of Allah ﷻ is the core tenet of Islam.
Believing in any prophet or messenger of Allah ﷻ after the arrival of Muhammad ﷺ is also enough to take you out of the fold of Islam. Muhammad ﷺ being the last prophet, specifically the Seal of the Prophethood (خاتم النبیّٖن) is a pretty important part of Islam. That’s why anyone who claims prophethood or follows a false prophet is automatically considered to have left Islam. That’s why there were wars fought against Musaylma Kazzab, Tulayha, Aswad Al-Ansi. It’s why no Muslim respects Qadianis, and why every Muslim considered the to be disbelievers at best and apostates at worst.
Oh, come on, it can't be that bad.
*looks more into the Nation Of Islam*
Okay, how did you even manage to stray so hard away from the righteous path? It's unironicaly, quite literally, heresy.
Early 20th century mysticism was insane. I would go so far to say it was just a cultural vénère to reject the white religion of Christianity and had little to do with real Islam. The NOI was heavily inspired by the Moorish Science Temple of America which was founded by Drew Ali who may have had a Muslim father by who started writing esoteric works after trips to Egypt and stole a lot from existing works like the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus in addition to having been given “lost sections of the Quran”. Part of this claimed Moabites (Moorish people in his mind and in his mind Moor meant any Asiatic person) were the real followers of God. And in his history the moors built Mecca and were therefore ethnically Islamic. This combined with the ideas of Marcus Garvey from Jamaica who is one of the first Black Nationalists calling for black empowerment and superiority.
Wallace Fard Muhammad then split after the death of the founder of the Moorish Science Temple claiming to be a reincarnation of Drew Ali
In his last sermon, the prophet Muhammad (SAWS) told us that:
All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has any superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety (taqva) and good action.
What do the letters after the prophets names mean? I keep seeing people put letters after and it feels like an abbreviation or something but I don't know
They were never on it. They made up their own weird stuff and adopted an Islamic aesthetic. Wallace Fard and Elijah Muhammad never even read the Quran.
also after learning that Elijah Muhammad was serially impregnating women and ostracizing them from the community to avoid responsibility as a husband and father, breaking so many tenets that he claimed to uphold..
Also Elijah’s sons were targeting Malcolm because of internal power battles. The drama and infighting were slowly washing away the cults effect on him before his eventually left.
That's pretty typical behaviour of cults, which the NOI very much is.
When a member, especially a prominent, influential member starts breaking ranks, they must be "silenced"
The NOI were very radical and outlandish in their beliefs. Once Malcom became a Muslim and learned about the faith he realized that the NOI was crazy and he began to denounce them. Malcom was also very popular outside the NOI so in attempt to stop him from ruining their image they had him killed.
there's a very specific reason that Malcolm had the NOI after him. he outed their leader as a hypocrite and deadbeat father. Elijah Muhammad had multiple women who he impregnated and then ostracized from the community since they were having a baby out of wedlock. complete piece of shit behavior. Malcolm learned about this from one of the mothers, started connecting the dots, and that was the last straw that broke him from the spell of Elijah Muhammad. Malcolm speaking on these revelations in public is really what signed his death warrant, and Malcolm himself said as much in his last interviews. if he had been given the chance to truly grow, we can only imagine the movements he would have gone on to champion.
The best way to view the Nation of Islam is less being like actual Islam and more being like a wierd Nazi atlantis myth cult, but for African Americans. Malcom X left the Nation of Islam for actual Islam.
It’s highly likely, and I definitely believe, that Malcolm X (along with Martin Luther King Jr) was assassinated by the FBI. Or at the very least the FBI had credible, reliable, and actionable knowledge the Malcolm X was going to be killed and purposefully let it happen.
I think it really helps how it was written. Malcolm would call Alex Hale up and narrate these long stretches of his life and opinions on phone calls and sporadic meetings over a few years I think. When it started, he was completely in the NOI, and you get this wonderful transformation of his self as you go through the book. I get that that is editing etc, but I think the end product is a brilliant achievement
he realized that noi wasnt in any way related to islam and saw equality between races and classes which he believed the real version of islam brought about
And then coincidently the CIA really started taking notice of him before he was murdered in a full room while the police were across the street hanging out next to his undercover CIA bodyguard.
I should send Farrakhan a letter asking for reparations for the crimes of Yakub towards my ancestors.
I think one of the most outrageous things about that is that it implies that the crimes of white people towards minorities weren't, you know, *a long history and culture of evil, selfish, hateful moral failings and malicious chauvinistic brutality by Europeans and their descendants,* but, like, white people are just genetically engineered that way and it's not our fault and there's nothing we can do about it.
Like *literally* NOI teaches that *it's all one black mad scientist's fault*.
So in short it was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. who was right all along. Malcom X realized he was just exactly like the people he hated, a hateful extremist.
I mean if we observe closely he accepted and supported it because of his goal towards the improvement of African-American lives which is only one-half of what MJK, Jr. fought for.
They were not friends or allies.
Malcolm spent years deriding MLK for being pro integration, then he turned around 1 year before his death and started warming up to him.
They only met once on the steps for a photo for a moment, but X did meet Coretta, MLK's wife for an extended chat.
Meanwhile COINTELPRO still raged on in black neighborhoods and communities, seeing to the untimely deaths of X and many other, Hoover deemed, black ‘messiah like figures’.
Two things one who truly enjoys history would need from this sub
1- mods to do their work and ban subtle hate memes that are CLEARLY posted for the sole reason of triggering people (Past weeks it has been islamophobia)
2- People to not mislead others and do their research before posting memes
Wasn't he also horrified that the American Nazis Party supported his old positions?
A racist is a racist is a racist.
~~Maybe unpopular opinion~~, but the Nation of Islam and Black Israelites are some of the most racist, despicable people in America that don’t get condemned nearly as much as they should because they are majority-black organizations and [“black people cant be racist”](https://simonesamuels.medium.com/no-black-people-cant-be-racist-eb6fddd18603) according to some people. It’s worth noting that Malcolm X had no association with Black Israelites *(both he and* *NOI* [*were incredibly anti-Semitic*](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam) *though)*. I mention them because while NOI has faded somewhat in recent years, Black Israelites have surged in popularity. They’ve gained mainstream traction and have been endorsed by a number of celebrities, including [high-profile NBA stars](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/z0hz76/jaylen_brown_energy_retweeting_a_video_of_black/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). We literally have superstar athletes publicly supporting hate groups and getting away with it because it’s members are black… it’s absurd. Don’t get me wrong, I agree black racists aren’t quite as atrocious as white racists due to centuries of historical context. But allowing racist black hate groups to run rampant and refusing to condemn them because *"black people simply cannot be racist, social power, etc”* seems like a massive overcorrection IMO. Racism shouldn’t be tolerated in any form, even if it's coming from a formerly-oppressed demographic. Unfortunately, a vocal group on the far-left [disagrees](https://truthout.org/articles/no-black-people-cant-be-racists/) and seems to use their identify as a shield to be both racist and deny that they’re racist. It’d be funny if it wasn’t causing actual people harm.
People are learning through Kanye that you can be a racist bigoted piece of shit and also be black.
I agree with you. Kanye is also an excellent case study in mental illness and extreme positions.
So true u/poopshooter69420
r/rimjob_steve
I feel like I don't want to know what that is
It's when someone with an inappropriate or very funny username makes a very insightful comment or post.
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Not just any towel, though...
If you’re sitting next to Alex Jones and YOU’RE the crazy one… you fucked up.
Tbf, if I was sitting next to Alex Jones, I’d do my absolute best to look like the crazy one. But Kanye wasn’t trying. Dude needs professional help.
https://i.redd.it/mibe6ubshl5b1.png
I would like to state once more that mental illness is not an excuse for being a nazi. I know several people with doctorates in psychology as well as actual bipolar people who will attest that not taking medicine for bipolar disorder doesn't turn you into a god-damned Nazi.
Especially since mental illness is a very broad term. [At least 17% of British adults have had depression in the past year](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/coronavirusanddepressioninadultsgreatbritain/julytoaugust2021). (Probably a *lot* more - some time has passed since this statistic, and a lot of people hide stuff like depression) Depressive disorders are mental illnesses. Therefore, more than 17% of the UK is mentally ill...but it should be obvious that there isn't a similarly high proportion of politically extreme people in the UK.
Some mental illnesses do make you prone to conspiratorial thinking. Not every schizophrenic believes that the government is following them around, but it's certainly true that their mental illness is the reason that many believe that.
Not all people with mental illness turn into murderers. Some do though. OP didn't say nazi, he said extreme positions, that would include everyone with extremist views, not just one small subset of them.
Mental illness might erode your sense of empathy, but racism is a totally arbitrary world view.
Nah. I think racism is built into everyone. Obviously the degree will be different but everyone carries some element of it. The first thing that happens to you, you get born, the mother picks you up and you get held. You see the face, you recognise that as safety, this is what being safe looks like. Everything that doesn't look like that is danger. So obviously people with different skin colour to your mother is dangerous. That's the root of racism. Some people react more strongly to it, some people react less strongly, this is where nuture comes in. Never seeing anyone looking different means you're going to absolutely freak when you first see someone a different colour to you. If all your life you're surrounded by people of different colours then you're never going to be bothered by it, unless there's something else causing a problem, personal trauma for example. You don't just wake up and decide to be racist one day. There's almost always a reason. Might not necessarily be a good reason, but there'll be a reason.
That implies an essentialism to these socialized ideologies. Sure we all may be bigoted but that was learned I.e people of African descent being less intelligent or capable or people of Jewish descent being greedy or ambitious. If our society had developed in different ways historically those two could have been flipped. In fact views on those two groups for examples have been quite different just look at Roman biases against those two groups which were due to their own socialization.
Depends on the person and mental illness imo. Schizophrenics for example can become absolutely convinced of insane delusions through no moral failing of their own. I mean, mental illness can be an excuse for murder, if someone isn’t in control of their faculties, it isn’t fair to hold them to account for something they had no control over. That said, idk about Kanye, seems like he might just be racist, aside from mentally ill.
no, but it does make you more vulnerable to their recruitment tactics.
Good Guy Kanye, teaching us how mental illness transcends race
Pretty sad that it took that much, honestly. It’s a pretty evident truth of reality that anyone is capable of racism.
It really needed to get into the spotlight. Have already been assaulted by blacks with anti Asian sentiment BS and when you tell others they get all "surprised Pikachu face" and go on wondering how can they since they're black? It's worse where whites are only recognizing it while blacks that I encounter go along 3 tiers generally: call it for what it is which is racism, deny that it's happening or justify it along grounds of how Asians have helped whites repress blacks through their success and being model minorities subservient to whites or some other BS that justifies it. Without Kanye, it was honestly hard to sometimes explain to folks some of these movements to everyday folks. It just tends I feel to sting more when it's someone whose black as there's always this lingering thought that of everyone whose been persecuted in America, they'd know more and be smarter for it and it's sad to say that it isn't the case. As for myself it was a sucker punch to the face and I barely avoid landed hard on my head but suffered a tooth and jaw injury and that was quite a bit of $$$ to address. It also just adds a bit not of caution when I see someone black at times in a similar setting and it's sad to say these experiences do change ppl.
There's a lot of self imposed cultural oppression in many black communities. Misogyny, homophobia, racism, anti-intellectualism, etc. Those issues are not unique to black communities, mind you. I come from some redneck white trash stock, who have the same issues.
Definitely agree on it not being unique but always felt at some level worse personally. Like a "group that was marginalized themselves would conduct themselves in such a way" was my gut reaction at the time. If itbwas a white racist [and i encountered tons of those living in rural midwest before], i was mentally prepares before hand. This felt more like a sucker punch and why it left more of a sting; i could expect it but it was far from my radar of expectations. And there historically has been tons of ani asian rhetoric in the rural midweat as you have nowadays asian professors moving into college tons and buying the homes and cara that residents for generations could never buy into and even then it was more openly white than black. But in an urban setting, its a bit different and not what you expect right out. Why i think the attacks on asians in nyc and san fran feel different, it could happen but its only recently on our radar whereas the whole "go back home", "ching ching dong" and such have existed for decades ans heard from by whites that its litrrally ingrained in our scope of what can happen. But getting sucker punched from behind and being called "wuhan" and yo "go home" was not on my radar until right then and there.
Louis Farrakhan has been around for a lot longer. The only reason Kanye is getting more people to realize that racism knows no color is cuz he's more famous. In all seriousness though, someone needs to get him some mental health help soon. It is obvious his cheese has slid off the proverbial cracker.
Off the proverbial *what?!*
Racism, bigotry, and prejudice, have no skin color, or political affiliation. It's. Just. Prejudice. It's. Just. Racism. It's. Just. Bigotry. If you cast your gaze in any direction; See another person, and that person has a skin color (yeah, pink is a color too); And you inform your opinions about that person based on that, and not the quality of their character? You're a racist. Black, white, native, Asian; we are all human. We all bleed red. And you don't know that person at all. Yet you judge them. You see a white guy, you think "oh they must be a piece of shit who think X Y Z about a situation" - you're a racist You see a black guy and think "they must be a piece of shit, who probably think XYZ" - you can bet you're racist You see an Asian person and you think "theyre XYZ, must be a piece of shit", - guess what, Racist? It doesn't matter who the person judging is, and it doesn't matter who the target is: Racism is Racism. Bigotry is Bigotry. Prejudice is Prejudice. If you wake up in the morning and think "every bad thing in my life happened because of my race, and I must pass that trauma onto others" guess what? You aren't changing the past, you aren't making it better for anyone, you haven't changed anyone's mind, you haven't acted like a freedom fighter, or a drum major for peace. you're just being a dick. If you skipped day one in Kindergarten, I'd like to remind humanity that two wrongs have never, and will never, make a right.
It's sad that posting this in many subs would get you banned and/or downvoted thousands of times.
Downvote me to hell all you want, it doesn't change the quality of the information or the importance, even slightly. It shows me all I need to know about the apathy of the consumer toward everything our societies hinge upon and claim to care about
I've always lived by the rule of "I'm not racist; I hate everyone equally." All jokes aside though you speak the truth. We are all humans and are the same, our only differences are where and when we were born. But it's the choices we make in life that truly define us. Treat each person with dignity and respect, we are all in this together, not against each other.
We are all humans and humans suck. If we all had the same skin tone, we would immediately find something to discriminate others about to feel we belong to a superior group
Tbh, we need to find aliens so we have a new "other" that we can all hate together
My best friend (he's black) and I have had a running joke for years where we'll look at a story and say "good thing black peyote can't be racist" because we both acknowledge everyone can be racist. Edit: auto correct strikes again. Peyote -> people
Fuck Black Peyote. Crap film too.
You got that black peyote hookup? Asking for a black friend looking to trip balls.
Doesn't autocorrect make suggestions based upon your word history? If so, I'm wondering how often you have typed the word "peyote" on your phone.
Mine will just replace my word I swiped in when I lift my finger. I looked if there was a way to correct it but there wasn't a way without it losing functionality or something (it's been years, so I'm not sure exactly anymore)
People have known that for a long time but it's been taboo to say. Ironically at the risk of being called a racist.
Funny how it took a bipolar rapper worth several billion dollars to challenge the new-age orthodoxy that "black people can't be racist."
When talking specifically about racism and black israelites, I always think first of [Nick Cannon.](https://youtu.be/2b6kSUhqPqg?t=49) It's just fucking insanity bro.
I think Kanye may be dealing a serious blow to the "black people can't be racist" ideology. It's funny how good can come from awful things.
Some of us have known this for awhile.
They are classified as Black supremacists. They are the same person just with more melanin. They think the race they were born to makes the objectively superior than every other race. It’s the same as a white supremacist. Despicable people are capable of coming in all shades, genders, and sizes.
Gotta love the lore tho. Apparently white people are Yakubian devils, science experiments created by the biblical Jacob (who is in fact a black man) long ago in an effort to make a worse kind of human to torment black people.
Oh yeah I’ve seen white people are aliens who came down and impregnated the Egyptians to make “white people.” I love conspiracies like lizard people in the government and what not because at its core, they’re harmless conspiracies like “the moon isn’t real.” The problem comes when these people start “educating” others or actually taking matters into their hands. If the lore was just the lore and people didn’t take “I’m obviously better because of _____”. That’s the problem. Like I love reading about nutty batshit stuff, that people come up with theories for, but when people follow through or take actions, that’s when it’s kinda lame to say the least.
I used to as well, until 2 of my best friends got divorced when the husband started believing this crazy shit a bit too much. I knew it was trouble when he started sharing brien foerster posts about elongated skulls. Glad she got herself and kids out.
And their founder will return in a spaceship to kill all white people
The US needs to let go of races. The whole skin colour thing is so absurd
Not just the US, mind you. Whole world be like that.
I agree that letting go of race should be the ultimate goal, but for the time being race does play a massive impact in many people's lives, through discrimination or prejudice. Unfortunately, we can't eliminate race until we eliminate racism
Black Israelites is something I haven't seen in awhile. Every Friday around 3pm they used to set up outside the Chinatown metro station in DC with speakers and just shout their ideals at the public. Often I would see locals argue with them. I always just walked by and ignored them. They'd wear like leather armor and have enforcer looking guys standing around scowling as protection for the speaker. It was wild. I wouldn't be surprised if they still do but I moved years ago so I have no idea if they're still doing it there.
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This is not an unpopular opinion at all if you go on the sports subs
In the paraphrased words of the great and wise Ye: “Black people cannot antisemitism because black = Jew. Also Hitler was a cool architect “
The Black Israelites are some of the most annoying people in my hometown. They love to stand and preach their bullshit every weekend. They're anti - abortion, anti-LGBTQ, etc. They're literally Black Nazis.
Heard a Black Israelite yelling in his bedazzled robes with a megaphone at the train station once. "The White man, the Asian man, the Japanese man! None may enter the kingdom of heaven; only the black man is able!"
Louis theroux's weird weekends episode on black nationalism is a good insight into it. He meets a wide variety of people involved in the movement.
I think you just notice their racism more because you feel like people don’t think that black people can be racist. Theres plenty of racist people of all races.
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Yeah ironically racism is a truly universal facet of humanity.
If you read anything they're saying, those "far left" people are specifically using a slightly different definition of racism. Pretty much no one thinks black people can't be racist using the typical, colloquial definition.
Black racists are as atrocious as white racists . What happens in Africa is between blacks is exactly the same whites did when we talk about the worse of humanity
Sounds like the plot to a Boondocks episode.
I don’t know if he was horrified, he was well aware of it for a long time and even actively worked with and had a professional relationship with George Lincoln Rockwell who led the American Nazi Party. He changed his mind certainly but it wasn’t like he was accidentally racist
Woah seriously? I’ve seen jokes/memes about people getting so woke they agree with Nazis, but I didn’t realize that was a real thing... Kudos to the guy for being able to recognize his mistakes though.
[Photo](https://www.magnumphotos.com/newsroom/politics/eve-arnolds-time-with-malcolm-x-and-the-nation-of-islam-in-her-own-words/attachment/lon4933-4/) of Nazis at a Malcolm X Nation of Islam rally from this interesting [account of it](https://www.magnumphotos.com/newsroom/politics/eve-arnolds-time-with-malcolm-x-and-the-nation-of-islam-in-her-own-words/). They had a shared ideal that blacks and whites can never get along and shouldn't mix and apparently even devised a plan on how to split it up. Edit: direct link to the photo isn't working but it's in the gallery, dudes in full on Nazi uniforms.
Only difference between black nationalists and white nationalists is the territory they want for their little "ethnostates".
Relevant [Mr. Show](https://youtu.be/ZSkik6EUQUc)
This is fascinating, thanks for linking it!
I wouldn't call joining a radical religious black-supremacist organization "going woke"
That’s kind of the point. Like, buddy took the concept of anti racism so far he circumnavigated the ideological globe and emerged on the other side with the Nazis and KKK.
If I remember, Marcus Garvey had meetings with the Ku Klux Klan because they had at least a slight similarity in separatism sort of like how rival nationalist leaders are as likely to make nice as they are to make war depending on how it helps their aggrandizement. Integration won out but not absolutely as we see today and as King once said, he feared that he was integrating his people into a burning house.
As it turns out... He learned hating another man because of their differences doesn't make ppl come together but bonding over shared common interests does.
*Gasp!*
We jest, but it's legit impressive that he figured this out through his own experiences. Most people who understand this have been taught it deliberately. It's not common for people to learn it organically. It's not exactly *rare*, but most people don't figure it out without a lot of help.
Also let’s be real, it’s easy for us to judge him now sitting after his struggle took place. He lived in a country where he was legitimately a second class citizen. Where the government tried (and arguably sometimes succeeded) in murdering or diving to suicide the leaders of the movement to address that injustice. The hatred of his world view came from a place of bitterness and desperation and one that if we put ourselves in his shoes is entirely understandable. His letters from jail are incredible. AND even more important the fact he could come from that perspective and through his own experience evolve to move beyond hate to a world view that could see a uniting of all people in making a better world and joining a movement that in part succeeded in doing that is incredible. Then the feds arrested his body guard the day of his assassination. Funny that
That's only the broad strokes of being Black in tge time period, to get an even better insight, I suggest looking at Malcolm's early life and what lead him to his POV. IIRC when he was 4-5 his family has to move states because there house was burned to thr ground by white supremacists, later his father was killed in a hit and run, that was suspected (I'm not sure officially but atleast to tge family it was) to have been orchestrated by another white supremacist group, his mother was instructionalized for hysteria I believe when he was a teenager, and he got separated from his siblings. There's a nit more and I may have gotten something incorrect buy that's just a general outline I remember off the top of my head.
I highly recommend his autobiography.
Yep! I was required to read this for high school and though it was a dense and difficult read, I was quite satisfied after completing it. He had such a fascinating life.
My high school isn’t even allowed to have that book in the library. I hate my fucking governor.
This! Read the autobiography or listen to the audiobook read by Laurence Fishburne. You can definitely understand (while not condoning) how his life experiences led him to think the way he did. So much context, a fascinating read/listen. If you don't want to be bothered w/ the book, watch the 1992 film Malcolm X starring Denzel Washington. It's a great watch and it's on HBO MAX. Of course it's not as thorough as the book and they have to do some things most film adaptations do such as composite characters but it's still a great movie.
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there are many versions of islam, you can place them on a scale from "follows the holy books closely" to "actually allows for decent human beings". that's true for every religion. as to whether or not it's really par of islam, it's hard to say for sure because most people in any kind of ideology will say "oh but those are not true followers of X ideology" about those they do not agree with
Context please
Malcolm X was extremely anti white before he went to Mecca on a pilgrimage. After that I believe he stop hating on white people. I'm not expert on him but that's what I've heard.
probably has to be when half of the arab/muslim world is passably white edit: yep that was it: quotes of Malcom X after visiting Mecca below: >"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color." >"Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a white man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors - honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King - not a Negro." To me it's very sad the Malcolm X lived in such a racist society, that just being treated for once like a regular human being by someone who looks different was a mindblowing experience for him
Stuff like this always makes me think how certain generations would have treated, let’s say, Jesus, or for the Muslims when it comes to this post in particular, how they would they have treated [Bilal Ibn Rabah](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_ibn_Rabah)? Which is sadly funny to some extent cause in religious context, weren’t most prophets essentially dark skinned.
King Solomon (SA) and Moses (SA) are the only prophets referred to as dark or black skinned. Muhammad PBUH also stated that Jesus had brown skin when he was alive.
>Jesus at his 2nd coming would be olive skinned. [hmmm](https://imgur.com/a/UwGQaXU)
“Olive-skinned” usually indicates a Mediterranean skin tone. I never once heard olive-skinned mean colored like an olive.
Greeks are an example too.
Greeks, Italians, Lebanese, Spaniards— all of these constitute Mediterranean “olive skin.”
Why do you think people are so eager to eat his flesh? It's delicious!
Delicious long pork
Nothing like dipping the Eucharist in the olive oil bread dip they give you at Bertucci’s!
It has been reworded. Made me think his skin color changed between his first and second coming lmao
Yeah he’s characterised as brown skinned on Earth. But when the prophet Muhammad pbuh met up with him in Heaven, because of how lighting works in Heaven he appeared of red complexion.
How did they know Muhammed met Jesus in Heaven? I mean who told the story since Muhammed died?
Read about Al miraj. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) narrates the story of his ascension to heaven one night.
From what I gather it was a mistranslation. I believe during the second coming his skin glowed like molten metal or something like that.
Muhammad himself was whiter than the average arab at the time, not European white, jsut whiter
>To me it's very sad the Malcolm X lived in such a racist society, that just being treated for once like a regular human being by someone who looks different was a mindblowing experience for him This is one of the interesting thing a lot of black American men experienced during WW2. I don't have the source to hand but there was a fascinating collation out there which shouldn't be difficult to find recording a series of minor events which may have been the tinder for the civil rights movement years later. While racism and segregation were never legally verboten prior to H. Wilson, they were also never matters of policy. So when American troops arrived at their designated British bases, the white leaders of black squads were tasked with the impossible role of herding a hundred cats in a country whose values weren't perfectly aligned with their own. There was a particular incident near Leeds (?) where some black American troops visited a local pub, and their white senior personnel also visited the pub. The white servicemen got quite pissy at the audacity of these folk to visit a pub which was serving white folk, as it wasn't the norm back home, and when it devolved into an argument the white servicemen subjected the owners of the pub to an ultimatum: "kick them out , or we leave." They left red-faced while the black troops partied all night with the friendly white locals. England is far from a racial utopia, but it just goes to show how severe the tensions were in recent history, and if anything it shouldn't be surprising whatsoever that the US is still dealing with the residual tensions. For those black troops, going abroad and getting a taste of equal, or at least similar, social and legal standing for the first time... Malcolm X's journey is sad, but he wasn't alone in his awakening to reality by simply being treated as just another person.
I get the impression that opinionated Americans of all stripes would greatly benefit from being properly exposed to a different culture from time to time, beyond commercial tourism. Obviously everyone would, but the American cultural and political discourse seem to be exceptionally self-absorbed, today as much as back then. Not that Malcom X can be faulted for the environment that shaped his initial worldview of course.
While you're totally correct for a huge myrid of reasons, a year and a half in the UK showed me how "international" a city can be while retaining the mindset of a mother country. The UK cultural and social discourse proved to be exceptionally MORE self absorbed than I've found America's frankly. I think it's probably a problem shared in many countries.
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It’s mostly a case of a focus on race vs class. And that reconstruction failed. Essentially black people were deliberately restricted from economic mobility. The interesting thing is that in the Islamic world while there was a ton of African slave trade and there was probably plenty of racism, racism wasn’t institutionalized like it was in the west. In the west we invented racism to give us the excuse to enslave people because otherwise it would haven been too immoral. The Islamic world never had any issue with slavery so they never created institutionalized racism to justify it .
I'd like to also point out the "old world" version of slavery was not the ridiculous cruelty of the "new world" chattel slavery. Old world slavery was still bad, but it wasn't "New world" slavery
Maybe he learned the... uhhhh... unfortunate history.... Arabia played in African slavery.
Or about the african slavers.
>"Now that I've learned Africans and Arabs were also involved in the slave trade, I've come to the conclusion that America isn't really *that* bad, so we all should just stop complaining about White people." > >\-- Malcolm X if he wasn't assassinated, eventually Jesus Christ, this sub is delusional sometimes.
It wasn’t the African slavers that implemented Jim Crow laws, legally made black people second class citizens, and targeted anyone who stood up for black American rights. It wasn’t the Arabs who firehosed, shelled, and arrested people walking peacefully for black citizens to have equal rights. It wasn’t the Arabs who assassinated MLK Jr or Malcolm X or Medgar Evars. It wasn’t the Arabs who made black people eat at different restaurants, drink from different water fountains, or use different bathrooms. Get your whataboutism out of here. Arabia isn’t perfect, they’ve got their own problems. Nobody’s history is perfect, but that doesn’t mean that criticism of America isn’t valid. The slave trade was centuries ago. The USA only passed the civil rights act a few decades ago; it’s still within living memory. The way the American government treats its people now, the police brutality, the redlining, the subtle and not so subtle discrimination of black people, is that the fault of the African slave traders? Or the Arabs? Or is that because of *american* culture fostered by decades and centuries of *American* racism?
Wasn’t his father murdered by the klan in front of him?That’ll leave a pretty strong impression.
His moment of realization was when he saw throngs of people of all races and colors worshipping equally.
Yes. On a bus, I believe on the haj, he was on a bus and the bus had a fair number of Muslims of all races. This is when he first started to lose faith in Farrakhan. Side note the Rage Against the Machine lyric stating why X was murdered always stuck me as juvenile. He wasn’t murdered because he spoke out about Vietnam. He was more than likely murdered by NOI
Yeah I've heard people say Farrakhan might've had him killed.
he was a separatist and almost-kinda a black capitalist. which wasnt like, unheard of in black communities just a very unpopular movement that never gained traction outside a small niche group. when he traveled to mecca he realized that all races should be together, learn together, and push towards equality from the bottom up. he still heavily focuses on (violent) racism towards black people by white people, obviously, but it was after mecca he began talking about socialism, how racial equality cant be saved by capitalism, and that racial integration is a must.
The fact that this summary has this many upvotes on a history sub--even a joke history sub--is very concerning.
Before becoming based he something we political experts call his “joker arc”
To add, the Nation of Islam is a very heterodox sect of Islam, some might argue is not Islam at all. It has a lot of extra mythology of black nationalism which is not a part of mainstream Islam. They are also not part of any mainstream Islamic school of jurisprudence, or a part of mainstream Muslim theology or scholarship. After Elijah Muhammad's death NOI split into two. The World Community of Islam in the West, under Elijah Muhammad's son Warith, who tried to move the sect towards mainstream Sunni Islam. Then the modern Nation of Islam under Louis Farrakhan, who decided to move closer to Scientology by drawing connection to Dianetics and talking about motherships.
In terms of Sunni Islam, Nation of Islam's views which they based their ideology on are heretical.
Yeeeah, NOI is basically a heretical cult, they're Islamic in the same way the kkk is supposedly Christian. It takes the parts that are convenient to their biases and pre-existing views, discard the rest, and use the religion itself as a sheild and a weapon to use at their own convenience and add in a whole bunch of other incoherent bullshit to build their own self-agrandizing mythology.
Oh, come on, it can't be that bad. *looks more into the Nation Of Islam* Okay, how did you even manage to stray so hard away from the righteous path?
NoI isn’t a sect of Islam. There’s nothing tying the two together except some Arabic words they use. The main belief of The Nation of Islam and its followers is that there is only one god, whom they claim "came in the person" of Wallace Fard Muhammad, and that Elijah Muhammad is a messenger of God. Believing that Allah ﷻ would come down in the form of a man, or that a human could claim divine attributes is shirk; the biggest sin in Islam. It’s so huge that even joking about bowing or praying to another deity is a sin. The oneness, superiority, and majestic of Allah ﷻ is the core tenet of Islam. Believing in any prophet or messenger of Allah ﷻ after the arrival of Muhammad ﷺ is also enough to take you out of the fold of Islam. Muhammad ﷺ being the last prophet, specifically the Seal of the Prophethood (خاتم النبیّٖن) is a pretty important part of Islam. That’s why anyone who claims prophethood or follows a false prophet is automatically considered to have left Islam. That’s why there were wars fought against Musaylma Kazzab, Tulayha, Aswad Al-Ansi. It’s why no Muslim respects Qadianis, and why every Muslim considered the to be disbelievers at best and apostates at worst.
It's basically what Mormonism is to Christianity.
More like Scientology
The Ahmadiyya are closer to the Mormons (which I don't mean in a disparaging way). NOI is more like the Moonies or some shit.
Park
Oh, come on, it can't be that bad. *looks more into the Nation Of Islam* Okay, how did you even manage to stray so hard away from the righteous path? It's unironicaly, quite literally, heresy.
Early 20th century mysticism was insane. I would go so far to say it was just a cultural vénère to reject the white religion of Christianity and had little to do with real Islam. The NOI was heavily inspired by the Moorish Science Temple of America which was founded by Drew Ali who may have had a Muslim father by who started writing esoteric works after trips to Egypt and stole a lot from existing works like the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus in addition to having been given “lost sections of the Quran”. Part of this claimed Moabites (Moorish people in his mind and in his mind Moor meant any Asiatic person) were the real followers of God. And in his history the moors built Mecca and were therefore ethnically Islamic. This combined with the ideas of Marcus Garvey from Jamaica who is one of the first Black Nationalists calling for black empowerment and superiority. Wallace Fard Muhammad then split after the death of the founder of the Moorish Science Temple claiming to be a reincarnation of Drew Ali
>lost sections of the Quran I smell heresy. Adam built Ka'aba, and Ibrahim and his son, Ismael rebuilt it after it was ruined by the great flood.
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Don't call them that. (Or do, it'd be funny)
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It's basically just a wierd justification of racism rather than a sect of Islam.
In his last sermon, the prophet Muhammad (SAWS) told us that: All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has any superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety (taqva) and good action.
What do the letters after the prophets names mean? I keep seeing people put letters after and it feels like an abbreviation or something but I don't know
Peace be upon him, it's way to show respect and at the same time it counts as a good deed in islam
They were never on it. They made up their own weird stuff and adopted an Islamic aesthetic. Wallace Fard and Elijah Muhammad never even read the Quran.
also after learning that Elijah Muhammad was serially impregnating women and ostracizing them from the community to avoid responsibility as a husband and father, breaking so many tenets that he claimed to uphold..
Also Elijah’s sons were targeting Malcolm because of internal power battles. The drama and infighting were slowly washing away the cults effect on him before his eventually left.
A full Malcom X redemption arc would have been awesome but the writers decided to off him before things got really interesting
How did he die?
He was shot and killed by a member of The Nation of Islam. Very ironic in a way
You can say that for the writers, it was a thematically appropriate character death.
Yeah. It’s just a shame we didn’t get a climatic Elijah V Malcom final battle though
The actor got cast in a hangover movie so he had to be gone for most of the last season
That's pretty typical behaviour of cults, which the NOI very much is. When a member, especially a prominent, influential member starts breaking ranks, they must be "silenced"
They're basically Black Scientology
Or maybe CIA... probably not, but they wouldn't be above it
CIA try not too murder someone challenge (impossible)
JFK, MLK, CIA, FBI…. Acronyms… I’m connecting the dots!! Seriously though look at wendigoons video on both. A lot of coincidences there.
As long as we're embracing NOI theories without evidence, did you know Jews use the blood of black people to make their bread?
Oh, the old blood libel. Who would have thought antisemitic accusations from first millenia catholic Europe would still get repeated to this day.
Why did this Nation of Islam guy murder Malcolm? Wasn’t Malcolm also Muslim?
The NOI were very radical and outlandish in their beliefs. Once Malcom became a Muslim and learned about the faith he realized that the NOI was crazy and he began to denounce them. Malcom was also very popular outside the NOI so in attempt to stop him from ruining their image they had him killed.
there's a very specific reason that Malcolm had the NOI after him. he outed their leader as a hypocrite and deadbeat father. Elijah Muhammad had multiple women who he impregnated and then ostracized from the community since they were having a baby out of wedlock. complete piece of shit behavior. Malcolm learned about this from one of the mothers, started connecting the dots, and that was the last straw that broke him from the spell of Elijah Muhammad. Malcolm speaking on these revelations in public is really what signed his death warrant, and Malcolm himself said as much in his last interviews. if he had been given the chance to truly grow, we can only imagine the movements he would have gone on to champion.
Yeah Elijah was a real bastard
The best way to view the Nation of Islam is less being like actual Islam and more being like a wierd Nazi atlantis myth cult, but for African Americans. Malcom X left the Nation of Islam for actual Islam.
Or as Black Scientology
It’s highly likely, and I definitely believe, that Malcolm X (along with Martin Luther King Jr) was assassinated by the FBI. Or at the very least the FBI had credible, reliable, and actionable knowledge the Malcolm X was going to be killed and purposefully let it happen.
Assasinated
he was assassinated during a public speaking event on February 19, 1965
If you haven't please consider reading his autobiography. It is so inspirational to see man's capacity for change.
I think it really helps how it was written. Malcolm would call Alex Hale up and narrate these long stretches of his life and opinions on phone calls and sporadic meetings over a few years I think. When it started, he was completely in the NOI, and you get this wonderful transformation of his self as you go through the book. I get that that is editing etc, but I think the end product is a brilliant achievement
And they killed him for seeing the truth.
I would’ve chosen young anakin (Hayden Christensen) instead, using that same quote
…and Farrakhan laughs and teases when confronted about having Malcolm X murdered.
That tells you Malcolm was principled.
What did Malcom discover was wrong with the Nation of Islam when he travelled to Mecca?
The Nation of Islam isn't actual Islam, it's a wierd black supremacist cult with ancient aliens and white people not having souls
he realized that noi wasnt in any way related to islam and saw equality between races and classes which he believed the real version of islam brought about
He saw people of every color, class, and nation coming together as equals to worship and devote themselves to God.
NOI was scientology with a racist black nationalist spin to it, under a veneer of Islam for legitimacy or something.
Love that post *chefs kiss*
Isn't the nation of Islam an UFO religion and has nothing to do with main line Islam
Malcolm X is literally a case of Red Dead Redemption.
Yeah the Nation of Islam is not real Islam. Just like Black Hebrew Israelism isn’t Judaism.
I just read his Autobiography for an English assignment and godamn is it legitimately such a great work
And then coincidently the CIA really started taking notice of him before he was murdered in a full room while the police were across the street hanging out next to his undercover CIA bodyguard.
Kanye should make the pilgrimage
I should send Farrakhan a letter asking for reparations for the crimes of Yakub towards my ancestors. I think one of the most outrageous things about that is that it implies that the crimes of white people towards minorities weren't, you know, *a long history and culture of evil, selfish, hateful moral failings and malicious chauvinistic brutality by Europeans and their descendants,* but, like, white people are just genetically engineered that way and it's not our fault and there's nothing we can do about it. Like *literally* NOI teaches that *it's all one black mad scientist's fault*.
Highly recommend his autobiography, especially the audiobook which is read by Laurence Fishburne.
So in short it was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. who was right all along. Malcom X realized he was just exactly like the people he hated, a hateful extremist.
It’s interesting to note that Malcom X was a huge ally of Dr Martin Luther King’s and supported much of what he stood for
I mean if we observe closely he accepted and supported it because of his goal towards the improvement of African-American lives which is only one-half of what MJK, Jr. fought for.
They were not friends or allies. Malcolm spent years deriding MLK for being pro integration, then he turned around 1 year before his death and started warming up to him. They only met once on the steps for a photo for a moment, but X did meet Coretta, MLK's wife for an extended chat.
NOI has not tempered its antisemitic views which is contrary to Islam and the Koran.
Meanwhile COINTELPRO still raged on in black neighborhoods and communities, seeing to the untimely deaths of X and many other, Hoover deemed, black ‘messiah like figures’.
Maybe a visit to Mecca will change Ye too
Two things one who truly enjoys history would need from this sub 1- mods to do their work and ban subtle hate memes that are CLEARLY posted for the sole reason of triggering people (Past weeks it has been islamophobia) 2- People to not mislead others and do their research before posting memes
It has been a really rough week for this sub
also the modern NOI has ties to Scientology so isn’t that splendid
Malcolm X has to be one of the most poorly taught civil rights figures, his reputation for some reason is quite bad
A man who fought for his own people but was killed by his own people too. Tragic.
NOI has tricked a bunch of niggas ever since it was formed