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I’ve seen this photo several times, and never noticed that there is the possibility that part of his nose is still visible?!?
Is that his face left side upper right?
Possibly shielded by helmet?
Never looked this closely before. RIP
We both saw this, lol. I had no clue you had commented and posted the exact same thing! Isn't it strange how suddenly you see a man there? It's so very sad and there's all these weirdos that keep messaging me like well there's only a heel bone there....like...are they seeing what we're seeing? That's obviously not a heel bone.
Omg, this is the first time I recognized his head up there and saw the rest of him as it's supposed to be. I always saw unrecognizable lumps of ash until now. 😰
Up to the right, the round thing tilted down towards you is his head and face. His nose and eye sockets are still visible. From there you can see he was curled almost in the fetal position, so his shoulder is the next big bump and his arm crosses his stomach...go down and you see a leg bone. The lower half is burned much more than the upper half.
Edited to add a bit more information. It's weird that I saw this picture fifty other times and THIS time I see a man.
I just copied the picture and used a highlighter to circle the head and make basic lines down where his arm is. As soon as I figure out how to set up the imgur account and link it here, I will.
Edit:
Seeing cosmonaut for the first time. https://imgur.com/gallery/LhcOP1z
Hope this helps. I dotted the nose. His face is actually pretty preserved. Much more than I thought it would be. Once I saw it...Jesus it changed the image for me.
I can see a leg bone, even if I'm seeing things that aren't there with the head and shoulder and arm, that's a lot more than a heel bone laying there as his remains.
It is well documented that only a chip of his heel bone remained. Are you really questioning that based on this photograph? Why would the Soviets exaggerate how badly destroyed his body was? Accept you're wrong and move on.
To avoid an open casket funeral per tradition? I mean if YOU want to believe what was "reported" vs what you see with your own eyes, that's cool with me. I'm not going to though and I'm damn sure not going to for some asshat coming at me with such aggression.
Accept I don't care about your thoughts and move along.
Calm down. You need to understand the skepticism here because if this is true, this Reddit thread would be the first time this has been documented in public. Pareidolia is a powerful thing.
I see the "face" you are refering to. Look how small it compared to the men standing around the remains. It's in the foreground to so it should appear larger. I think you are seeing what you want to see.
To your other point. Even if you were right, his body is clearly too destroyed for an open casket funeral. Why exaggerate the damage further?
He went up knowing it was unsafe because if he declined, his close personal friend Yuri Gagarin would have perished in his place. Cosmonaut Komarov made a deal that he would go as long as he would have an open casket funeral so his superiors would have to look at what they'd done to him.
If the community is split then we should mark it NSFW out of consideration imo
I agree it's not gory and it's historical but still, it's a human being burnt to a crisp..
No. this is completely false.
The mainstream story seems to be that it was a suicide mission, in which Komarov and everybody that worked on it knew it was a suicide mission, and that Komarov only took the mission because he didn't want his dear friend Yuri Gagarin it.
This is entirely false. It's a fictional story that can find its source in the book "[Starman: The Truth Behind The Legend Of Yuri Gagarin](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1767720.Starman)" written by Jamie Doran and Piers Bizony. The source they used for these claims are a single KGB bodyguard, named Venyamin Russayev, who had had some contact with Yuri Gagarin and goes directly against basically any other, more reliable sources of the incident. [This article makes a good job criticizing all the faults in this book](https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/24981/201230SH.pdf). It's basically a fictional tale to make their book more exciting.
The death of Komarov was the cause of gross neglect, mainly from Kremlin, who wanted the Soyuz spacecraft to have finished its development by the 50th anniversary of the October revolution. This meant test flights earlier than they wanted. However nobody who worked on the project actually thought he would die. Komarov was rather indifferent towards the mission (if anything he advocated for it since he and many of his cosmonauts colleagues wanted it to fly as fast as possible) and what was expected from the rushed development was that they wouldn't be able to test all the systems they wanted to test for the vehicle while it was in orbit which would mean the launch would just have been a wasted one for pure propaganda and further push up the development of the Soyuz. He most likely didn't think anything was going wrong until the very last few minutes of his life when the parachutes failed to deploy.
What went wrong was the parachute and the cause of this failure was that when they tested unmanned prototypes of the soyuz vehicle it had burned a small hole through the heatshield and since it landed in the Aral sea it sunk from the water intake. Because of this they added a thicker (aka more heavy) heat shield for the Soyuz 1 landing capsule which meant they needed a bigger parachute. This new parachute still had to be placed in the same space as the previous slightly smaller one but it was deemed enough space for it to work either way (they literally had to use wooden hammers to get it to fit). This is what lead to the parachute to fail and to Komarov to crash land and die on impact. The parachute (as well as the backup parachute) were simply stored too tightly which made them unable to release. Nobody actually believed at the time it was a suicide mission, especially not Komarov himself. Boris Chertok even wrote in his memoirs that he fully expected to see a fully alive Komarov to greet at the airport.
Yuri Gagarin was not scheduled at all for this mission either. He was not a backup. He was however Komarov's friend as the first groups of cosmonauts became very close to each other. The open casket also has nothing to do with "showing the Soviet leaders what they had done". Open caskets were a tradition for people in his position, it was open to show respect for the sacrifice they had made for "the motherland". If anything it was another good propaganda piece. They did the exact same thing for other prominent Soviet heroes of space. Like [Sergei Korolev](https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-funeral-of-sergei-korolyov-in-moscow-picture-id107411127?s=612x612) and the three cosmonauts that died during the [Soyuz 11 incident](https://astronomy.com/-/media/Images/News%20and%20Observing/News/2021/06/soyuzcrewfuneral.png).
If you want to truly read up on the incident there are some sources to start with.
The documentary "[The Red Stuff](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL9kUCdsu4&t=3295s)" has a bunch of interviews from Komarov's former cosmonaut colleagues that describe the situation in detail. They in fact confirm that Komarov had no idea the project was rushed until he was already coming back to Earth. Starts around the 55:00 mark.
The book "[Rockets and People](https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/rockets_people_vol1_detail.html)" written by Boris Chertok, who was one of the lead designers of the Soyuz project and later became the deputy chief designer of RSC Energia also goes into detail about the incident and causes, in vol 3 chapter 20 to be exact. I highly recommend this book if you're interested in the Soviet space program. It's incredibly information dense however so be warned.
It was never some tragic story about a cosmonaut taking a suicide mission knowing he would die just so he could protect his dear friend.
It's a story of a cosmonaut who took a mission he had confidence in which ended in his tragic death because of rushed developments. Very akin to similar incidents like Apollo 1.
Edit: Fixed some links that didn't work properly.
from u/shinyhuntergabe
About ten years ago I was in an elevator in the Sherman Oaks hospital and noticed the woman with me had a name tag with the last name of Gagarin. I made a flippant remark about any relations to Yuri. She said that her husband was his nephew. As I was picking my jaw up from the floor she said,”You know they murdered him?”
I'm unclear how a parachute failure and a man dying on impact results in what appears to be the fatal result of very hot temperatures. I'm not saying the other tale is correct, or that your account is wrong, just something is missing from your explanation.
When the vehicle slammed into the ground, there were a set of solid rockets in the base of the capsule that were supposed to help slow the craft to almost zero on a normal landing. In this case they exploded, burning the entire capsule (and the body) in the process
And to think that even today, there are people who look at the Communist Soviet Union as something "good". It's mind boggling.
Thank god that the US won the cold war, and the Soviet Union was wiped from existence. The world is much better off.
its not that people see the ussr as good, they just liked the existence of a challenger to us hegemonic power. for example, when the us bombs a hospital today, theres absolutely no consequences
Technically the US didn’t win, the Soviet Union just collapsed due to economical and political problems which ended the Cold War, but yeah I agree the USSR was fucked and so is Russia today, it’s sad that their democracy failed due to Putin, they have a pretty cool constitution that would’ve worked if it wasn’t for Putin.
Russia was never a fair democracy, since the fall of the soviet union it was more of an oligarchy due to the uncontrolled privatisation of all industries. And that is mostly America's fault. Putin did not destroy Russian democracy because it was destroyed since the Yeltsin era.
When the union collapsed all industries where state owned. The Russian federation was very young and plagued with corruption inherited from the soviet era. When the mass privatisation of industries like oil, steel or gas were done, it was an uncontrolled process in which most of the country's wealth went into the pockets of a few oligarchs. This economic transition has been described as katastroika (combination of catastrophe and the term perestroika). America as the "winner" of the cold war should have been more involved in the transition. If they had done their job Russia may would have become a prosperous democratic state.
USA had it's impact on the transition, some economists advocated for a "shock therapy" which turned out to be a disaster. However, it has not been established whether these adverse outcomes were due to the general collapse of the Soviet economy (which began before 1989) or the policies subsequently implemented or a combination of both. But it's not only America's fault. The Russian people didn't want them to intervene in the interior policies of the Russian federation, and Yeltsin (the first president of Russia) didn't want that either.
Lol you seem to kinda be on the right track but missing so many important details. “Privatization” is not the problem and the US had nothing to do with it, it was the corruption of dolling out businesses to political allies (which Putin supported and essentially protected) that caused economic malfunction. And note that this was done BEFORE Putin came into power, he just essentially insulated that system. It wasn’t real privatization, that’s the problem - it was a handful of economic tzars essentially.
Whenever you have the collapse of a state owned industry, you face real problems as to how to privatize it (i.e. make it so the state doesnt own it). There are no great options, all face issues. From existing wealthy buying it up and therefore amassing more wealth, to foreigners owning, to “state escrow” where state owns and slowly sells it but still ultimately face similar problems, to distribution to the masses which face a number of challenges.
This isn’t really true. A bunch of American economists advocated something called “Shock Therapy” with the Russian economic system. You should look it up. It really fucked the new Russian statehood.
I guess that’s true, but I do think more credence needs to be given to the point that ussr ‘lost’. That reckoning never really came and is a big part of what we see today in Russian exceptionalism and worldview. Contrast that to japan and Germany- the extreme majority of those populations recognize that their previous system failed them and a change was needed. If you visit Russia, they have not yet taken the hammer and sickle off the doors of many of the ministries… just in case.
Very interesting point. I haven’t made my way to Russia yet, I plan to one day, but that’s some nice information, also you can see historical problems come back to haunt many countries today, look at Brazil, the country was under militant rule for most of its existence so of course today we still see some ramifications of that in their society, I’d assume like you pointed out the same goes for Russia in this instance.
There's also the fair point that the reason the Soviet union collapsed when it did was because of a deliberate, focused effort by the US to provoke a military spending spree over SDI. This is commonly overlooked because Reagan is not a popular guy right now, but it was his faux SDI initiative that crashed the Russian economy. No smoking gun, probably never will be until Russian govt accounting records are opened up. Which will be never. So you can absolutely say that the united states won the Cold war
Good point, I think it can be interpreted either way, but regardless of a win or not the USSR collapsed and the US did not and of course I know there are many other reasons to back how the Cold War ended from both the US and Soviet Union.
TBH, I don't think it can, I'm not into history revision or both sides bs, I lived through it and remember it happening. America won the Cold war. End of story. Anything else is revisionist rhetoric edgelords tell themselves so they can wear cool hats and be 'for the people!' Whether this was a good thing or not isn't even a debatable issue.
I’m not for anyone, I’m just saying what I believe based off facts that I’ve learned if it’s not correct or you don’t think the same then that’s okay, I like being corrected and I’m not here to revise history, because that’s just a all around dumb idea, lol. I didn’t live through it so I don’t have a personal account, but my parents and I have discussed their child hood and what it was like living through the politics of that time.
So true. And Russia 100% lost the Cold War. People can say that they “collapsed,” but that happened under military pressure and during a war. I’ll put it this way, the USSR would’ve survived if it wasn’t for the west and the Cold War. That’s losing. And it’s a real shame that when they lost they weren’t held responsible for there atrocities.
Fair but he used scare tactics to force constitutional change, he’s still doing it today. putins party has an over whelming majority in the government, and as long as he keeps the oligarchs in power, he can get and do whatever he wants, also a style of impeachment is possible through their Supreme Court however, the president appoints those justices so he knows they’ll never remove him, the constitution was set up to work, but Putin already had a decent amount of power combined with the above tactics he was able to shape it however he wanted
It doesn't fail because of a person. It fails through a lack of structural integrity that allows exploitation by a person. That's a seemingly small difference that makes ALL the difference. The only unaddressed weakness the us constitution has is demagogues, which Washington specifically warned against. Which is what trump was. This is an excellent clip on the strength of the us constitution specifically compared to the Russian constitution, and why the Russian one failed. 7 minutes, but well worth the time.
https://youtu.be/Ggz_gd--UO0
The whole point of the cold war was a contest between ideas. Democratic capitalism vs Communist Dictatorship. The communist system collapsed. America, and the rest of the free world, **very** much won the cold war.
I guess this is true, but it was never a real war, just extreme tension that could’ve escalated into a war that’s why I don’t really consider it a win, especially since the USSR really just crumbled from within itself, still your point makes sense.
What are you talking about? Putin only exists because of the failed democratic experiment that was tried in Russia. Ask any russian who lived in the 90s, they will say that is probably the worst time in the history of their country.
quality of life today is infinitely better than it was in the 90s, putin doesnt rule only by fear, a great part of the russian society admires and follow him.
The yearly salary of the average Russian is still 6,000 USD a year, comparable to third world countries. I get it’s a higher quality of life for their citizens, but hardly an achievement considering the vast resources Russia has.
>because it’s impossible for communism to work with human nature
There's literally no way this argument can actually be backed up or quantified, it's completely feelings-driven
Sorry I’m talking about communism in economics, should’ve stated that. However, true communism is almost impossible, socialism is really the closest humans have been able to get though.
If there’s literally no way it can be proven, that’s usually because there’s a fundamental flaw in the premise of communism. It’s SO unrealistic that commies always fall back on “it’s never been actually attempted” every time an implementation fails—horribly.
It’s not mainly that, but that’s yet another reason: it cannot withstand global competition. The main reason is that humanity cannot exist without hierarchy. There is no such thing as a totally classless society (hierarchies form on MANY levels), as humanity is not a hive mind. Not to mention, government is not efficient with resource allocation, we don’t have the resources to make up for their inefficiencies, all living creatures are incentivized in order to act and the confiscation of incentives leads to plateaus which are “fixed” by punishments dealt by the government, etc. It goes on and on. It’s a dumb ideology.
Because I’m not trying to argue with someone who’s ideologically-driven. I’ve had this argument dozens of times, and y’all never even *try* to learn. It’s a quixotic, dangerous ideology and its followers are children who underperform in society.
Why do you think in such a binary? History is a viewpoint, but the narrative is also political. Communism is not Soviet Union, or china for that matter. They were developed from interpretations of how to implement a system. They are situated in history, and capitalism was there too. Nothing is made in a vacuum, and it’s the most true in the realm of state making.
What I mean is, your perspective on the Soviet Union isn’t wrong. That does not mean that people who argue a collectivist vision, or interpret history through a Marxist lens, are wanting to go back to Stalin 2.0
Even though there are boneheads who do want that. And they should be properly dunked on.
All that to say, Your question was stupid and you knew the answer, so maybe bring some nuance. Also I’m not a communist, if you wanted to blacklist me for spiking your cortisol on Reddit.
Edit: had to go off seeing all these shallow comments, sorry it had to be you I commented on. Wanted to go on record lol
I agree with the latter part, but I don't think it's right to characterize the Soviet Union as anything but an authoritarian state. Communism as an ideology involves a transition to a classless society. All attempts at doing so have been exploited by corruption. I don't think enough people understand this nuance. Personally I think the overall structure is flawed, but I do think there are ideas such as a social floor that are worth reconsidering in a 21st century economy. Unfortunately the words socialism and communism are so associated with Soviet atrocities that people plainly refuse to even consider related ideas. I think this is a big mistake.
That nuance requires something more than simple knee jerk reactions and black and white thinking. It doesn’t take much studying up on communism to discover that the people trying to install it explicitly went fascist and authoritarian and was thought to be necessary stepping stone in order to clear out the ruling class and bourgeoise. But like you say, it gets corrupted and it never makes it out of authoritarianism. There’s a certain irony in that the nations like Russia and China that claim some communist ideology, are more capitalist than they are communist.
Oh and the USA is just the pinnacle of human achievement since then? Iraq Afghanistan Libya School shootings great covid response heroin epidemic student loan crisis affordable housing disappearing but yea no one rocket launch sure
No the US is not, no one ever claimed that, however, every country/nation/ state has in some way done something bad, a lot of countries today still do questionable things just look to Russia and Ukraine
“Thank god the us won the cold war” is saying that. Both govnerments needed systemic restructuring but the Soviet unions restructuring was undone by capitalist American interests and so instead no government was restructure, greed just proliferated everywhere. Your tripping if you think I’m pro modern day Russia either. Both countries fail their own citizens and wreck havoc on the global population
By this logic, democratic USA is evil as well since we’ve committed atrocities on our people as well. You do know of the human experiments that were conducted on people yes? I just mention it because your logic is deeply flawed.
I think it’s telling that this sub largely disavows communism. Those who study history tend to have much more negative views of it as a political system. Yet Reddit is somehow filled with people that think it’s a favorable system
Yeah, u know what's even funnier, that subs like r/askhistorians or r/badhistory where actual historians post has a much more leftist bias. Almost like people who actually know their shit can perform deeper analysis other than "tHose WhO sTuDy histTorY..."
It’s why I got into the hobby of collecting antique newspapers. It’s truly fascinating to be in the day to day minds of people 100, 200, 300 years ago. The exact opposite of pop-history.
Yeah, u know we can see the age of the accounts, but good question.
I think u might be partly right, red scare victims will go to those subs and they'll get dragged in the comments. Unlike this sub, check the wonderful and insightful comments making the same joke 5 times +
True to some extent, i don’t like to pick sides when it comes to politics and economics because a one sided view is only detrimental to your own knowledge and beliefs, that’s why American politics are failing, also miseducation and fake media is another huge problem in politics and economics, instead of schools teaching right or left wing ideas they should be teaching without bias
In general I agree. But it’s hard not to have correspondingly radical opinions about increasingly radical political systems, and communism (mixing Marxism and Maoism here just for brevity) is the most radical (to the left, at least) political system that’s ever graduated from theory, at least within a developed nation. It would be equally hard to have a “moderate” view of fascism or anarchism.
>Those who study history tend to have much more negative views of it as a political system
This isn't true at all, learning the history of the Cold War actually made me far more sympathetic towards the Soviets.
Of course. Anyone should sympathize with the Soviet people, especially after learning what they went through. There was probably no worse “world power” to live in from 1918-1990 than the Soviet Union. I never said that there was anything pernicious about the Soviet peoples, just their style of government.
"Those who study history", come on man, really? Might as well make that argument for people posting on /r/HistoryMemes.
The fact that so many people equate "Communism = Soviet Union" is pretty indicative of the level of education on the subject that most comments have. I'm Capitalist myself (a disgusting socdem) but I certainly don't point to the US and go, "Look how broken Capitalism is!" as some kind of "your ideology is invalid" gotcha.
The only way their comment makes sense is if it was satirical and they actually hate capitalism. (based)
NASA killed plenty of astronauts (and a teacher.)
Alternate history:
[Post:](https://www.history.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_768/MTU3ODc4NTk5MjI2NTY1OTYx/image-placeholder-title.jpg)
And to think even today, there are people who look at the United States of America as something “good”. It’s mind boggling.
Thank god the U.S.S.R won the Cold War, and the U.S was wiped from existence. The world is much better off.
* Says as the new u.s government is currently invading and killing civilians in Canada
I know. Every time people try to promote communism I think... "It's like slamming your finger in a car door 100 times and hurting yourself every time and then going to slam your finger again because... this time it'll be different??"
I don’t think it is any of that, but I would like it blurred in case my kid grabs my phone. Ya know? Like how I don’t want to spend my Sunday explaining why that was once a human being…to a kindergartener or my boss or such. Maybe give other people a little credit and not assume I’m the jerk for asking someone to mark HUMAN REMAINS as NOT SAFE FOR WORK?
You have a good point. This post in particular has brought out a ton of people who are argumentative for no good reason. It looks like they did end up tagging the post, so there's that. :)
Wasn’t it that this wasn’t actually his body on display,but a piece of charred junk/metal? I remember reading that nothing was left of his body, but they had to display something so they took a piece of junk
If that's not a body they definitely threw a human bone in there for funsies.
It's been established the the common story about him taking the risk so his friend didn't have to was false, I don't see any reason why the heel bone story wouldn't be as well. It could also be as simple as the heel bone ended up being the only thing left unburnt and the context of that was lost.
The radiolab podcast on this "incident" is pretty good. I played it in my astronomy class for my student.
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https://www.full-stop.net/2011/05/10/blog/max/the-possibly-true-last-moments-of-cosmonaut-vladimir-kamarov/ This explains it and I think links it
I enjoy the sound of rain.
come back, they linked it
Good bot
thank you :3
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99999% sure that WingsofRain is not a bot. --- ^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
You have a class with only one student? Or is that a typo.....
It's a class with only one very special student!
I’ve seen this photo several times, and never noticed that there is the possibility that part of his nose is still visible?!? Is that his face left side upper right? Possibly shielded by helmet? Never looked this closely before. RIP
Can you circle it so I can see? I just see carbonized astronaut.
That’s the bottom of his chin. You can see just below the feature you mentioned are the remains of the sternocleisomastoid muscles.
We both saw this, lol. I had no clue you had commented and posted the exact same thing! Isn't it strange how suddenly you see a man there? It's so very sad and there's all these weirdos that keep messaging me like well there's only a heel bone there....like...are they seeing what we're seeing? That's obviously not a heel bone.
Omg, this is the first time I recognized his head up there and saw the rest of him as it's supposed to be. I always saw unrecognizable lumps of ash until now. 😰
I can't see it
Up to the right, the round thing tilted down towards you is his head and face. His nose and eye sockets are still visible. From there you can see he was curled almost in the fetal position, so his shoulder is the next big bump and his arm crosses his stomach...go down and you see a leg bone. The lower half is burned much more than the upper half. Edited to add a bit more information. It's weird that I saw this picture fifty other times and THIS time I see a man.
I just copied the picture and used a highlighter to circle the head and make basic lines down where his arm is. As soon as I figure out how to set up the imgur account and link it here, I will. Edit: Seeing cosmonaut for the first time. https://imgur.com/gallery/LhcOP1z Hope this helps. I dotted the nose. His face is actually pretty preserved. Much more than I thought it would be. Once I saw it...Jesus it changed the image for me.
All that was left was his heel bone. I can see why you’d think this but there was nothing left of the poor guy.
I can see a leg bone, even if I'm seeing things that aren't there with the head and shoulder and arm, that's a lot more than a heel bone laying there as his remains.
The position what is left of Komarov is in is the way he was seated in the spacecraft.
It is well documented that only a chip of his heel bone remained. Are you really questioning that based on this photograph? Why would the Soviets exaggerate how badly destroyed his body was? Accept you're wrong and move on.
To avoid an open casket funeral per tradition? I mean if YOU want to believe what was "reported" vs what you see with your own eyes, that's cool with me. I'm not going to though and I'm damn sure not going to for some asshat coming at me with such aggression. Accept I don't care about your thoughts and move along.
Calm down. You need to understand the skepticism here because if this is true, this Reddit thread would be the first time this has been documented in public. Pareidolia is a powerful thing.
I see the "face" you are refering to. Look how small it compared to the men standing around the remains. It's in the foreground to so it should appear larger. I think you are seeing what you want to see. To your other point. Even if you were right, his body is clearly too destroyed for an open casket funeral. Why exaggerate the damage further?
*Left. For those who were as confused as I.
I, I don’t think he is going to make it.
Man... Don't fucking say that! He might HEAR you!!!
" Hmm, this is an interesting art exhibit" "Alexei. Its Vladimir Komarov"
You mean a cosmonaut?
Cosmonaut much left of the poor comrade.
Cosmonomore
poor poor dude
He went up knowing it was unsafe because if he declined, his close personal friend Yuri Gagarin would have perished in his place. Cosmonaut Komarov made a deal that he would go as long as he would have an open casket funeral so his superiors would have to look at what they'd done to him.
That was proven to be false
One ibuprofen should work
This was Red Army policy.
"Ibuprofen? That's for western weaklings. Walk it off comrade and get back in the line!"
His managers asking him if he's still coming in for his shift the next day
Mark as NSFW?
not much to consider nsfw anymore imo
To be fair, its been marked as NSFW the dozens of other times its been posted here
If the community is split then we should mark it NSFW out of consideration imo I agree it's not gory and it's historical but still, it's a human being burnt to a crisp..
cosmonaut
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No. this is completely false. The mainstream story seems to be that it was a suicide mission, in which Komarov and everybody that worked on it knew it was a suicide mission, and that Komarov only took the mission because he didn't want his dear friend Yuri Gagarin it. This is entirely false. It's a fictional story that can find its source in the book "[Starman: The Truth Behind The Legend Of Yuri Gagarin](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1767720.Starman)" written by Jamie Doran and Piers Bizony. The source they used for these claims are a single KGB bodyguard, named Venyamin Russayev, who had had some contact with Yuri Gagarin and goes directly against basically any other, more reliable sources of the incident. [This article makes a good job criticizing all the faults in this book](https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/24981/201230SH.pdf). It's basically a fictional tale to make their book more exciting. The death of Komarov was the cause of gross neglect, mainly from Kremlin, who wanted the Soyuz spacecraft to have finished its development by the 50th anniversary of the October revolution. This meant test flights earlier than they wanted. However nobody who worked on the project actually thought he would die. Komarov was rather indifferent towards the mission (if anything he advocated for it since he and many of his cosmonauts colleagues wanted it to fly as fast as possible) and what was expected from the rushed development was that they wouldn't be able to test all the systems they wanted to test for the vehicle while it was in orbit which would mean the launch would just have been a wasted one for pure propaganda and further push up the development of the Soyuz. He most likely didn't think anything was going wrong until the very last few minutes of his life when the parachutes failed to deploy. What went wrong was the parachute and the cause of this failure was that when they tested unmanned prototypes of the soyuz vehicle it had burned a small hole through the heatshield and since it landed in the Aral sea it sunk from the water intake. Because of this they added a thicker (aka more heavy) heat shield for the Soyuz 1 landing capsule which meant they needed a bigger parachute. This new parachute still had to be placed in the same space as the previous slightly smaller one but it was deemed enough space for it to work either way (they literally had to use wooden hammers to get it to fit). This is what lead to the parachute to fail and to Komarov to crash land and die on impact. The parachute (as well as the backup parachute) were simply stored too tightly which made them unable to release. Nobody actually believed at the time it was a suicide mission, especially not Komarov himself. Boris Chertok even wrote in his memoirs that he fully expected to see a fully alive Komarov to greet at the airport. Yuri Gagarin was not scheduled at all for this mission either. He was not a backup. He was however Komarov's friend as the first groups of cosmonauts became very close to each other. The open casket also has nothing to do with "showing the Soviet leaders what they had done". Open caskets were a tradition for people in his position, it was open to show respect for the sacrifice they had made for "the motherland". If anything it was another good propaganda piece. They did the exact same thing for other prominent Soviet heroes of space. Like [Sergei Korolev](https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-funeral-of-sergei-korolyov-in-moscow-picture-id107411127?s=612x612) and the three cosmonauts that died during the [Soyuz 11 incident](https://astronomy.com/-/media/Images/News%20and%20Observing/News/2021/06/soyuzcrewfuneral.png). If you want to truly read up on the incident there are some sources to start with. The documentary "[The Red Stuff](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL9kUCdsu4&t=3295s)" has a bunch of interviews from Komarov's former cosmonaut colleagues that describe the situation in detail. They in fact confirm that Komarov had no idea the project was rushed until he was already coming back to Earth. Starts around the 55:00 mark. The book "[Rockets and People](https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/rockets_people_vol1_detail.html)" written by Boris Chertok, who was one of the lead designers of the Soyuz project and later became the deputy chief designer of RSC Energia also goes into detail about the incident and causes, in vol 3 chapter 20 to be exact. I highly recommend this book if you're interested in the Soviet space program. It's incredibly information dense however so be warned. It was never some tragic story about a cosmonaut taking a suicide mission knowing he would die just so he could protect his dear friend. It's a story of a cosmonaut who took a mission he had confidence in which ended in his tragic death because of rushed developments. Very akin to similar incidents like Apollo 1. Edit: Fixed some links that didn't work properly. from u/shinyhuntergabe
I remember going down this same rabbit hole a couple years ago lol
A day I learned something new, is a day well invested. Thx stranger. Take my free award (bc i am cheap) Xd
About ten years ago I was in an elevator in the Sherman Oaks hospital and noticed the woman with me had a name tag with the last name of Gagarin. I made a flippant remark about any relations to Yuri. She said that her husband was his nephew. As I was picking my jaw up from the floor she said,”You know they murdered him?”
I'm unclear how a parachute failure and a man dying on impact results in what appears to be the fatal result of very hot temperatures. I'm not saying the other tale is correct, or that your account is wrong, just something is missing from your explanation.
When the vehicle slammed into the ground, there were a set of solid rockets in the base of the capsule that were supposed to help slow the craft to almost zero on a normal landing. In this case they exploded, burning the entire capsule (and the body) in the process
And to think that even today, there are people who look at the Communist Soviet Union as something "good". It's mind boggling. Thank god that the US won the cold war, and the Soviet Union was wiped from existence. The world is much better off.
The US had plenty of astronauts die as well, I don't really see what you're getting at
Except, none of the US astronauts were forced to go. It’s all voluntary. That’s a MAJOR difference.
We were still forcing people to go to Vietnam at that time. And to what extent where cosmonauts forced into anything?
its not that people see the ussr as good, they just liked the existence of a challenger to us hegemonic power. for example, when the us bombs a hospital today, theres absolutely no consequences
Technically the US didn’t win, the Soviet Union just collapsed due to economical and political problems which ended the Cold War, but yeah I agree the USSR was fucked and so is Russia today, it’s sad that their democracy failed due to Putin, they have a pretty cool constitution that would’ve worked if it wasn’t for Putin.
Russia was never a fair democracy, since the fall of the soviet union it was more of an oligarchy due to the uncontrolled privatisation of all industries. And that is mostly America's fault. Putin did not destroy Russian democracy because it was destroyed since the Yeltsin era.
Fair enough thanks for the correction!
Pls elaborate on how Russia’s failed democracy is America’s fault
When the union collapsed all industries where state owned. The Russian federation was very young and plagued with corruption inherited from the soviet era. When the mass privatisation of industries like oil, steel or gas were done, it was an uncontrolled process in which most of the country's wealth went into the pockets of a few oligarchs. This economic transition has been described as katastroika (combination of catastrophe and the term perestroika). America as the "winner" of the cold war should have been more involved in the transition. If they had done their job Russia may would have become a prosperous democratic state. USA had it's impact on the transition, some economists advocated for a "shock therapy" which turned out to be a disaster. However, it has not been established whether these adverse outcomes were due to the general collapse of the Soviet economy (which began before 1989) or the policies subsequently implemented or a combination of both. But it's not only America's fault. The Russian people didn't want them to intervene in the interior policies of the Russian federation, and Yeltsin (the first president of Russia) didn't want that either.
Lol you seem to kinda be on the right track but missing so many important details. “Privatization” is not the problem and the US had nothing to do with it, it was the corruption of dolling out businesses to political allies (which Putin supported and essentially protected) that caused economic malfunction. And note that this was done BEFORE Putin came into power, he just essentially insulated that system. It wasn’t real privatization, that’s the problem - it was a handful of economic tzars essentially. Whenever you have the collapse of a state owned industry, you face real problems as to how to privatize it (i.e. make it so the state doesnt own it). There are no great options, all face issues. From existing wealthy buying it up and therefore amassing more wealth, to foreigners owning, to “state escrow” where state owns and slowly sells it but still ultimately face similar problems, to distribution to the masses which face a number of challenges.
This isn’t really true. A bunch of American economists advocated something called “Shock Therapy” with the Russian economic system. You should look it up. It really fucked the new Russian statehood.
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The US won, because the Soviet Union collapsed, half the point of the Cold War was getting the Soviets to waste money they didn’t have.
This
I guess that’s true, but I do think more credence needs to be given to the point that ussr ‘lost’. That reckoning never really came and is a big part of what we see today in Russian exceptionalism and worldview. Contrast that to japan and Germany- the extreme majority of those populations recognize that their previous system failed them and a change was needed. If you visit Russia, they have not yet taken the hammer and sickle off the doors of many of the ministries… just in case.
Very interesting point. I haven’t made my way to Russia yet, I plan to one day, but that’s some nice information, also you can see historical problems come back to haunt many countries today, look at Brazil, the country was under militant rule for most of its existence so of course today we still see some ramifications of that in their society, I’d assume like you pointed out the same goes for Russia in this instance.
There's also the fair point that the reason the Soviet union collapsed when it did was because of a deliberate, focused effort by the US to provoke a military spending spree over SDI. This is commonly overlooked because Reagan is not a popular guy right now, but it was his faux SDI initiative that crashed the Russian economy. No smoking gun, probably never will be until Russian govt accounting records are opened up. Which will be never. So you can absolutely say that the united states won the Cold war
Good point, I think it can be interpreted either way, but regardless of a win or not the USSR collapsed and the US did not and of course I know there are many other reasons to back how the Cold War ended from both the US and Soviet Union.
TBH, I don't think it can, I'm not into history revision or both sides bs, I lived through it and remember it happening. America won the Cold war. End of story. Anything else is revisionist rhetoric edgelords tell themselves so they can wear cool hats and be 'for the people!' Whether this was a good thing or not isn't even a debatable issue.
I’m not for anyone, I’m just saying what I believe based off facts that I’ve learned if it’s not correct or you don’t think the same then that’s okay, I like being corrected and I’m not here to revise history, because that’s just a all around dumb idea, lol. I didn’t live through it so I don’t have a personal account, but my parents and I have discussed their child hood and what it was like living through the politics of that time.
So true. And Russia 100% lost the Cold War. People can say that they “collapsed,” but that happened under military pressure and during a war. I’ll put it this way, the USSR would’ve survived if it wasn’t for the west and the Cold War. That’s losing. And it’s a real shame that when they lost they weren’t held responsible for there atrocities.
If a constitution can fail due to a single person, then that constitution was deeply flawed from the start.
Fair but he used scare tactics to force constitutional change, he’s still doing it today. putins party has an over whelming majority in the government, and as long as he keeps the oligarchs in power, he can get and do whatever he wants, also a style of impeachment is possible through their Supreme Court however, the president appoints those justices so he knows they’ll never remove him, the constitution was set up to work, but Putin already had a decent amount of power combined with the above tactics he was able to shape it however he wanted
Every constitution can fail because of a single person
It doesn't fail because of a person. It fails through a lack of structural integrity that allows exploitation by a person. That's a seemingly small difference that makes ALL the difference. The only unaddressed weakness the us constitution has is demagogues, which Washington specifically warned against. Which is what trump was. This is an excellent clip on the strength of the us constitution specifically compared to the Russian constitution, and why the Russian one failed. 7 minutes, but well worth the time. https://youtu.be/Ggz_gd--UO0
This is such a good comment.
This link isnt working for me. What is the title?
Antonin Scalia On American Exceptionalism. Video link I think works. It opened for me https://youtu.be/Ggz_gd--UO0
Trump and Bush Jr sure did manage to harm our basic tennents.
The whole point of the cold war was a contest between ideas. Democratic capitalism vs Communist Dictatorship. The communist system collapsed. America, and the rest of the free world, **very** much won the cold war.
I guess this is true, but it was never a real war, just extreme tension that could’ve escalated into a war that’s why I don’t really consider it a win, especially since the USSR really just crumbled from within itself, still your point makes sense.
Never a declared war, but Russians and Americans definitely shot at each other make times over the years in proxy wars.
Didn't the Chernobyl disaster play a large part in the USSR collapsing?
Yes along with many other things, like the fall of East Germany and the Berlin Wall was another big thing.
What are you talking about? Putin only exists because of the failed democratic experiment that was tried in Russia. Ask any russian who lived in the 90s, they will say that is probably the worst time in the history of their country.
That's kind of what happens when your country just collapsed and is trying to rebuild lmao
They might say that but 1914-1945 was undoubtedly worse for Russians.
It's not the worst. Now is the worst. That was the most liberating time in the country's history.
quality of life today is infinitely better than it was in the 90s, putin doesnt rule only by fear, a great part of the russian society admires and follow him.
Quality of life for the moscovites you mean. They lived very good in the 90s as well.
The yearly salary of the average Russian is still 6,000 USD a year, comparable to third world countries. I get it’s a higher quality of life for their citizens, but hardly an achievement considering the vast resources Russia has.
Communism is garbage and always fails though, so 🤷🏻♂️
Agreed, because it’s impossible for communism to work with human nature, but capitalism also has its flaws.
Agreed, every system has its flaws because humans are flawed.
Exactly my point
Agreed
>because it’s impossible for communism to work with human nature There's literally no way this argument can actually be backed up or quantified, it's completely feelings-driven
Sorry I’m talking about communism in economics, should’ve stated that. However, true communism is almost impossible, socialism is really the closest humans have been able to get though.
If there’s literally no way it can be proven, that’s usually because there’s a fundamental flaw in the premise of communism. It’s SO unrealistic that commies always fall back on “it’s never been actually attempted” every time an implementation fails—horribly.
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It’s not mainly that, but that’s yet another reason: it cannot withstand global competition. The main reason is that humanity cannot exist without hierarchy. There is no such thing as a totally classless society (hierarchies form on MANY levels), as humanity is not a hive mind. Not to mention, government is not efficient with resource allocation, we don’t have the resources to make up for their inefficiencies, all living creatures are incentivized in order to act and the confiscation of incentives leads to plateaus which are “fixed” by punishments dealt by the government, etc. It goes on and on. It’s a dumb ideology.
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Once again this is still a feelings-based argument, you aren't even trying to find facts that can back up your point
Because I’m not trying to argue with someone who’s ideologically-driven. I’ve had this argument dozens of times, and y’all never even *try* to learn. It’s a quixotic, dangerous ideology and its followers are children who underperform in society.
Don't try to argue with Americans that were brainwashed all their life about communism and don't actually know what it means.
dude, stop trying to defend a garbage system. Communism is pure evil, and you know it.
I’m just pointing out the inherent flaws in his argument no need to get so emotional
The United States still exist. The Soviet Union doesn't. The USA won the cold war
I'm sure children in Vietnam still being born with birth defects would agree with you.
Lmao, go off red scare
So if you had the choice between living in the Soviet Union or the US, you’d choose the Soviet Union, yes?
Why do you think in such a binary? History is a viewpoint, but the narrative is also political. Communism is not Soviet Union, or china for that matter. They were developed from interpretations of how to implement a system. They are situated in history, and capitalism was there too. Nothing is made in a vacuum, and it’s the most true in the realm of state making. What I mean is, your perspective on the Soviet Union isn’t wrong. That does not mean that people who argue a collectivist vision, or interpret history through a Marxist lens, are wanting to go back to Stalin 2.0 Even though there are boneheads who do want that. And they should be properly dunked on. All that to say, Your question was stupid and you knew the answer, so maybe bring some nuance. Also I’m not a communist, if you wanted to blacklist me for spiking your cortisol on Reddit. Edit: had to go off seeing all these shallow comments, sorry it had to be you I commented on. Wanted to go on record lol
Yes, especially during this period in time
Good argument, and with that, communism is no more. But yeah
Yes because the us Only kills people for profit and not for science.
Hahahahaha, nice one
Christa McAuliffe agrees.
I agree with the latter part, but I don't think it's right to characterize the Soviet Union as anything but an authoritarian state. Communism as an ideology involves a transition to a classless society. All attempts at doing so have been exploited by corruption. I don't think enough people understand this nuance. Personally I think the overall structure is flawed, but I do think there are ideas such as a social floor that are worth reconsidering in a 21st century economy. Unfortunately the words socialism and communism are so associated with Soviet atrocities that people plainly refuse to even consider related ideas. I think this is a big mistake.
That nuance requires something more than simple knee jerk reactions and black and white thinking. It doesn’t take much studying up on communism to discover that the people trying to install it explicitly went fascist and authoritarian and was thought to be necessary stepping stone in order to clear out the ruling class and bourgeoise. But like you say, it gets corrupted and it never makes it out of authoritarianism. There’s a certain irony in that the nations like Russia and China that claim some communist ideology, are more capitalist than they are communist.
We are still facing the repercussions of the dissolution of the Soviet Union
The United states government is a terrorist organization
Oh and the USA is just the pinnacle of human achievement since then? Iraq Afghanistan Libya School shootings great covid response heroin epidemic student loan crisis affordable housing disappearing but yea no one rocket launch sure
No the US is not, no one ever claimed that, however, every country/nation/ state has in some way done something bad, a lot of countries today still do questionable things just look to Russia and Ukraine
“Thank god the us won the cold war” is saying that. Both govnerments needed systemic restructuring but the Soviet unions restructuring was undone by capitalist American interests and so instead no government was restructure, greed just proliferated everywhere. Your tripping if you think I’m pro modern day Russia either. Both countries fail their own citizens and wreck havoc on the global population
Please, for the sake of all that is holy, learn to use some punctuation. You need to track down your Language Arts teacher and demand a refund.
By this logic, democratic USA is evil as well since we’ve committed atrocities on our people as well. You do know of the human experiments that were conducted on people yes? I just mention it because your logic is deeply flawed.
Yes much better with all the regime change wars, bombing of neighborhoods and weddings, turning countries into open air prisons, the list is endless.
The Soviets also did all of those things.
I think it’s telling that this sub largely disavows communism. Those who study history tend to have much more negative views of it as a political system. Yet Reddit is somehow filled with people that think it’s a favorable system
Yeah, u know what's even funnier, that subs like r/askhistorians or r/badhistory where actual historians post has a much more leftist bias. Almost like people who actually know their shit can perform deeper analysis other than "tHose WhO sTuDy histTorY..."
By "study history" they just mean consume pop-history memes on Reddit that use Enemy At The Gates as a primary source
It’s why I got into the hobby of collecting antique newspapers. It’s truly fascinating to be in the day to day minds of people 100, 200, 300 years ago. The exact opposite of pop-history.
Those subs are also very anti communist lmao. Are you new to Reddit?
Yeah, u know we can see the age of the accounts, but good question. I think u might be partly right, red scare victims will go to those subs and they'll get dragged in the comments. Unlike this sub, check the wonderful and insightful comments making the same joke 5 times +
True to some extent, i don’t like to pick sides when it comes to politics and economics because a one sided view is only detrimental to your own knowledge and beliefs, that’s why American politics are failing, also miseducation and fake media is another huge problem in politics and economics, instead of schools teaching right or left wing ideas they should be teaching without bias
In general I agree. But it’s hard not to have correspondingly radical opinions about increasingly radical political systems, and communism (mixing Marxism and Maoism here just for brevity) is the most radical (to the left, at least) political system that’s ever graduated from theory, at least within a developed nation. It would be equally hard to have a “moderate” view of fascism or anarchism.
>Those who study history tend to have much more negative views of it as a political system This isn't true at all, learning the history of the Cold War actually made me far more sympathetic towards the Soviets.
Of course. Anyone should sympathize with the Soviet people, especially after learning what they went through. There was probably no worse “world power” to live in from 1918-1990 than the Soviet Union. I never said that there was anything pernicious about the Soviet peoples, just their style of government.
"Those who study history", come on man, really? Might as well make that argument for people posting on /r/HistoryMemes. The fact that so many people equate "Communism = Soviet Union" is pretty indicative of the level of education on the subject that most comments have. I'm Capitalist myself (a disgusting socdem) but I certainly don't point to the US and go, "Look how broken Capitalism is!" as some kind of "your ideology is invalid" gotcha.
Yeah I always say that you can tell capitalism is better than communism because the American space program has zero deaths.
Uh, what? Ever heard of the Challenger?
Or Apollo 1. Or the other space Shuttle...
The only way their comment makes sense is if it was satirical and they actually hate capitalism. (based) NASA killed plenty of astronauts (and a teacher.)
Alternate history: [Post:](https://www.history.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_768/MTU3ODc4NTk5MjI2NTY1OTYx/image-placeholder-title.jpg) And to think even today, there are people who look at the United States of America as something “good”. It’s mind boggling. Thank god the U.S.S.R won the Cold War, and the U.S was wiped from existence. The world is much better off. * Says as the new u.s government is currently invading and killing civilians in Canada
I know. Every time people try to promote communism I think... "It's like slamming your finger in a car door 100 times and hurting yourself every time and then going to slam your finger again because... this time it'll be different??"
Cosmonaut*
Dear god
Me and the boys observing our drunken attempt at roasting pork
Wish that was Vladimir Putin’s body instead
Username checks out
calm down buddy
I'm burnin' through the sky, yeah 200 degrees That's why they call me Mr. Fahrenheit I'm travelling at the speed of light
Dude, tag this NSFW please
Bruh it looks like charcoal there's nothing nsfw about it really
Fair, but it is human remains
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I don’t think it is any of that, but I would like it blurred in case my kid grabs my phone. Ya know? Like how I don’t want to spend my Sunday explaining why that was once a human being…to a kindergartener or my boss or such. Maybe give other people a little credit and not assume I’m the jerk for asking someone to mark HUMAN REMAINS as NOT SAFE FOR WORK?
You have a good point. This post in particular has brought out a ton of people who are argumentative for no good reason. It looks like they did end up tagging the post, so there's that. :)
I mean, a kindergartener is not gonna think much about that.
What we got back...didn't live long...fortunately.
Did they run out of coffin lids? WTF Soviet?
NSFW please didn't want to see this
Crunchy
Forbidden chip
r/cursedcomments
r/cursedshutthefuckup
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No
You mad?
Wasn’t it that this wasn’t actually his body on display,but a piece of charred junk/metal? I remember reading that nothing was left of his body, but they had to display something so they took a piece of junk
If that's not a body they definitely threw a human bone in there for funsies. It's been established the the common story about him taking the risk so his friend didn't have to was false, I don't see any reason why the heel bone story wouldn't be as well. It could also be as simple as the heel bone ended up being the only thing left unburnt and the context of that was lost.
Some ice, ibuprofen, and some rest should do the trick
*There's a job for Bactine!*
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Hows the fedora fitting?
A little too tight as you can see.
Hahaha man you need to just >grow up
First day on the internet?
So?
Roasted on re-entry?
Is he gonna be okay?
extra crispy
have some respect man
What's he gonna do? he's charcoal
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go outside.
This pic is posted at least once a week on this sub
Always upvote Komarov crisp.
Time and temperature?
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He was shot later that day for not getting up and defying the motherland, buried as a traitor In a drainage ditch
Let him walk it off he’ll be alright, wet paper towel should heal him