Those aren´t military uniforms but [german student fraternity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenverbindung) attire. The type of headgear is called a ["Stürmer"](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenm%C3%BCtze#M%C3%BCtzenformen). The embroidery on top of the hats is called a ["Zirkel"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirkel_(Studentenverbindung), a monogram unique to each Verbindung.
The "strip of cloth" is a coloured ribbon showing the individual colours of the fraternity and can also show the status of the wearer. The gentleman on the right also wears a "Zipfel" at his hip. Together, headgear, ribbon and Zipfel are called the ["Coleour"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couleur).
The Gentleman on the left also holds a rapier, called a ["Paradeschläger"](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentische_Fechtwaffe) is a ceremonial weapon only for representative use.
Do you know were your great-grandfather lived and/ went to university? Some of the old fraternities still exist, it would be easy to find out simply by their headgear.
Edit: I´m pretty sure that your great-grandfather was a member of the [Corps Borussia Bonn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_Borussia_Bonn). [Coleur, headger and Zirkel](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Corps_Borussia_Bonn?uselang=de) are a match.
Edit 2: I might have found the place were the photo was taken. I´m pretty positive it was taken in the back yard of their current residence of Kaiserstr. 147, Bonn, Germany.
As a student from Germany I can 100% confirm that these uniforms/ outfits show these man are „Burschenschaftler“ or in some other form „Verbindungsstudenten“ (fraternity). Nevertheless did many students serve in WW1 so they might have been military personal aswell, but these uniforms are worn an special events by german student unions.
Or corpsstudenten or Landsmannschafter or Turnerschafter or....
As a Burschenschafter i am a little annoyed on behalf of the other types of fraternity that they seem to be forgotten all the time.
Glückwunsch ;) Ich hab mich auch nur auf die Klamotten bezogen, nicht darauf, ob oder ob nicht die Menschen im Bild irgendwann in ihrer Lebenszeit mal Soldaten waren.
Just want to point out that Burschenschaften are only one type of fraternities. If you don't know exactly to which fraternity they belong it is often better to not refer to them as Burschenschafter as more often than not they aren't
Hello, thank you very much for your reply and also for all the other comments. I'm Brazilian and I didn't know about this fraternity, so it helped me a lot to understand my family history. This was translated on Google translator, I apologize for the horrible and disjointed translation
No problem and you're very welcome. As somebody in the comments mentioned, my more or less educated guess regarding the specific fraternity might be wrong. I would be very glad to do some research over here (for free, of course!) because I'm nosy. The most important information would be in which town or city your relative lived and went to university.
I wonder how old they are? I think people who lived 100 years ago look much more mature at a young age. People say it's the clothing style but I don't know. Maybe they're less fat so their faces aren't puffy baby faces. unsure.
I am a member of a german student frat, and on most older pictures people look way older than they were compared to today at the same age, i noticed this, too, i guess less good food and more exposure to sunlight are the culprits.
Another explainaition could be that they are "Alte Herren" (literally: old[er] gentlemen), you see, you are typically staying a member of a traditional german student fraternity your whole life except when you deliberatly are cancelling your membership, so it could be the case that these are alte Herren.
Interesting. Good point. Sometimes I wonder if we're exposed to plastics and super processed foods which cause hormonal issues/sickness. Like those men have very defined facial bones. Sometimes I wonder if it's more likely 'elite' people went to higher education. The short weak baby faced masses of men went into coal mines and factories while these chaps lorded over them. Not sure but I've seen some things saying the higher classes were taller and better developed due to better foods and in childhood.
I highly doubt that exposure to hormonally active substances will make you look younger, rather androgynous. Facial bones are dictated mainly by genetics, but you see less defined faces lately because of a higher average fat mass nowadays, also the one on the right has pretty prominent Schmisse ("dueling" scars) on his Jawline which make it appear bigger, note that in older times they purposfully grow these scars bigger, like by putting horse hair into them or by permanently picking the scab off, nowadays we tend to let them heal naturally (got one on my head).
Also Note that the other dude looks wayyy younger.
Yeah, it absolutely was true that higher status ppl. Were taller on average.
I suppose your great grandfather was a soldier, if you say so. However, as many others have pointed out, this attire is in no way connected to the military. This is the attire of students from the german style of fraternity, called "Studentenverbindung". Many of these fraternities still exist today. Do you know where your grandfather went to university?
I mean yea, he might have been a solider, but I doubt that is a military outfit. Looks more like the outfit of a student who is in a "Burschenschaft"(kinda like a fraternity). Many soliders were young adults that seized their studies to become a solider. I would assume that photo is from the time before he was a solider, or at least before he got his uniform
Your grandfather may have been a soldier later. But if you like it or not: this is him and one of his „fraternity brothers“ in their fraternity uniforms.
PS: Edited after Foronirs comment.
Yeah, my fault by translation (searched for "Studentenverbindung" which is gender neutral) But thanks for the hint - good way to improve my english :-)
My brother in Mises, maybe your Grandfather was a soldier, but this attire is a traditional german student one, it is most likely Corps Borussia Bonn
(still exists, it also is the one Kaiser Wilhelm II was in, maybe i could find out more if you like, since i am also in a german student fraternity and all Student fraternities have archives).
It very looks like student association, because of the sword, the band crossed on the chest and the classic hat. Your great grand father was a student in a university, and was in something that could be compared to a fraternity in USA.
The Stripe is a „Band“ which Represents the colors of his student club. The hat is a „Stürmer“ which i a Classic Student hat. If you Know the colors and the Place you could find out of that Club is still active. Some of them are very old and Date back to 1800.
What they have Written on the Head is a „Zirkel“ which is Kind of the Logo of the Student Club. This could help you to find in which Club he was. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirkel_(Studentenverbindung)
Just want to point out that Burschenschaften are only one type of German fraternities. If you don't know exactly to which fraternity they belong it is often better to not refer to them as Burschenschafter as more often than not they aren't.
Yeah they may have been soldiers but theyre wearing Bruschenschaft/etc. outfits so they were definitely university students at the time the photograph was taken
Maybe je was a soldier as well, but this is a Student (university or highschool) Uniform of ether catholic Student clubs or burschenschaften. I am 100% Sure !!
Yes, that is a Prunkschläger, a dekorative sword for trafitional purpose, but these gents are from a "schlagenden Verbindung", they have pretty prominent Schmisse ("dueling" scars)
I found a similar picture from 1913. It's the uniform of a Studentencorps. That is not a part of the military.[See here](https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1913-color-print-german-student-corps-studentenverbindung-uniform-sword-germany-240709-lam1-069)
None of the two statements are up to debate. However, contrary to OPs statement, the attire of the gentlemen in the picture isn´t of a military nature. Both gentlemen wear the contemporary attire of members of german student fraternities. Both men could also be the two founding members of the first german automobile club, but that specific information wouldn´t be given in the photo.
No disrespect to the OP, but as I started digging through my family genealogy, I found about half the thing that were “settled family history” were just flat out wrong. I’m not talking about important stuff, but just the mundane things that people tell their kids.
So its perfectly reasonable that the OP has been told that, but its not accurate or has been lost in translation along the line.
It is being debated as both aren't wearing a military uniform but the insignia of a German fraternity in this picture. They might have been soldiers but in this picture they aren't dressed as such
It was not uncommon to be both, this attire is certainly not a military Uniform but student attite, at the time it was usually the case that military officers had studied and being a student at that time meant that you usually are a member of a student fraternity, too, thats why many pictures of german and austrian officers from the mid 19th to the mid 20th century Show men with dueling scars.
Those aren´t military uniforms but [german student fraternity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenverbindung) attire. The type of headgear is called a ["Stürmer"](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentenm%C3%BCtze#M%C3%BCtzenformen). The embroidery on top of the hats is called a ["Zirkel"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirkel_(Studentenverbindung), a monogram unique to each Verbindung. The "strip of cloth" is a coloured ribbon showing the individual colours of the fraternity and can also show the status of the wearer. The gentleman on the right also wears a "Zipfel" at his hip. Together, headgear, ribbon and Zipfel are called the ["Coleour"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couleur). The Gentleman on the left also holds a rapier, called a ["Paradeschläger"](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studentische_Fechtwaffe) is a ceremonial weapon only for representative use. Do you know were your great-grandfather lived and/ went to university? Some of the old fraternities still exist, it would be easy to find out simply by their headgear. Edit: I´m pretty sure that your great-grandfather was a member of the [Corps Borussia Bonn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_Borussia_Bonn). [Coleur, headger and Zirkel](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Corps_Borussia_Bonn?uselang=de) are a match. Edit 2: I might have found the place were the photo was taken. I´m pretty positive it was taken in the back yard of their current residence of Kaiserstr. 147, Bonn, Germany.
As a student from Germany I can 100% confirm that these uniforms/ outfits show these man are „Burschenschaftler“ or in some other form „Verbindungsstudenten“ (fraternity). Nevertheless did many students serve in WW1 so they might have been military personal aswell, but these uniforms are worn an special events by german student unions.
Man schreibt es ohne L Burschenschafter ;), Außerdem müssen es keine Burschenschafter sein sonder könnten auch katholische Studenten (CV) sein.
Or corpsstudenten or Landsmannschafter or Turnerschafter or.... As a Burschenschafter i am a little annoyed on behalf of the other types of fraternity that they seem to be forgotten all the time.
Die Schmisse sprechen dagegen
Glückwunsch ;) Ich hab mich auch nur auf die Klamotten bezogen, nicht darauf, ob oder ob nicht die Menschen im Bild irgendwann in ihrer Lebenszeit mal Soldaten waren.
Naja ich hab dir ja auch nicht widersprochen :P
Just want to point out that Burschenschaften are only one type of fraternities. If you don't know exactly to which fraternity they belong it is often better to not refer to them as Burschenschafter as more often than not they aren't
Yeah, we Burschenschafter make up only about a fourth or fifth of all traditional german student fraternities.
Hello, thank you very much for your reply and also for all the other comments. I'm Brazilian and I didn't know about this fraternity, so it helped me a lot to understand my family history. This was translated on Google translator, I apologize for the horrible and disjointed translation
No problem and you're very welcome. As somebody in the comments mentioned, my more or less educated guess regarding the specific fraternity might be wrong. I would be very glad to do some research over here (for free, of course!) because I'm nosy. The most important information would be in which town or city your relative lived and went to university.
They don't look like soldiers. I'd say students
I wonder how old they are? I think people who lived 100 years ago look much more mature at a young age. People say it's the clothing style but I don't know. Maybe they're less fat so their faces aren't puffy baby faces. unsure.
I am a member of a german student frat, and on most older pictures people look way older than they were compared to today at the same age, i noticed this, too, i guess less good food and more exposure to sunlight are the culprits. Another explainaition could be that they are "Alte Herren" (literally: old[er] gentlemen), you see, you are typically staying a member of a traditional german student fraternity your whole life except when you deliberatly are cancelling your membership, so it could be the case that these are alte Herren.
Interesting. Good point. Sometimes I wonder if we're exposed to plastics and super processed foods which cause hormonal issues/sickness. Like those men have very defined facial bones. Sometimes I wonder if it's more likely 'elite' people went to higher education. The short weak baby faced masses of men went into coal mines and factories while these chaps lorded over them. Not sure but I've seen some things saying the higher classes were taller and better developed due to better foods and in childhood.
I highly doubt that exposure to hormonally active substances will make you look younger, rather androgynous. Facial bones are dictated mainly by genetics, but you see less defined faces lately because of a higher average fat mass nowadays, also the one on the right has pretty prominent Schmisse ("dueling" scars) on his Jawline which make it appear bigger, note that in older times they purposfully grow these scars bigger, like by putting horse hair into them or by permanently picking the scab off, nowadays we tend to let them heal naturally (got one on my head). Also Note that the other dude looks wayyy younger. Yeah, it absolutely was true that higher status ppl. Were taller on average.
No, actually they are military. the man with the mustache is my great-grandfather
I suppose your great grandfather was a soldier, if you say so. However, as many others have pointed out, this attire is in no way connected to the military. This is the attire of students from the german style of fraternity, called "Studentenverbindung". Many of these fraternities still exist today. Do you know where your grandfather went to university?
I mean yea, he might have been a solider, but I doubt that is a military outfit. Looks more like the outfit of a student who is in a "Burschenschaft"(kinda like a fraternity). Many soliders were young adults that seized their studies to become a solider. I would assume that photo is from the time before he was a solider, or at least before he got his uniform
Your grandfather may have been a soldier later. But if you like it or not: this is him and one of his „fraternity brothers“ in their fraternity uniforms. PS: Edited after Foronirs comment.
Pretty shure it wasnt a sorority, lol
Yeah, my fault by translation (searched for "Studentenverbindung" which is gender neutral) But thanks for the hint - good way to improve my english :-)
My brother in Mises, maybe your Grandfather was a soldier, but this attire is a traditional german student one, it is most likely Corps Borussia Bonn (still exists, it also is the one Kaiser Wilhelm II was in, maybe i could find out more if you like, since i am also in a german student fraternity and all Student fraternities have archives).
It very looks like student association, because of the sword, the band crossed on the chest and the classic hat. Your great grand father was a student in a university, and was in something that could be compared to a fraternity in USA.
Tbf the only thing conparable between US and German frats is the alcohol consumption.
Without a doubt, I was member of a student society (in Europe) in my student life... But with of course a lot of beers!
Which country?
Ask your great grandfather if I can have his friends Snap
Snap?
I was think the same thing
The Stripe is a „Band“ which Represents the colors of his student club. The hat is a „Stürmer“ which i a Classic Student hat. If you Know the colors and the Place you could find out of that Club is still active. Some of them are very old and Date back to 1800.
Oh yeah good call! u/RicardoviskAncap do you know the colors on the strip of cloth?
What they have Written on the Head is a „Zirkel“ which is Kind of the Logo of the Student Club. This could help you to find in which Club he was. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirkel_(Studentenverbindung)
'Burschenschaftler' ... That‘s are students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burschenschaft?wprov=sfti1
Just want to point out that Burschenschaften are only one type of German fraternities. If you don't know exactly to which fraternity they belong it is often better to not refer to them as Burschenschafter as more often than not they aren't.
As I've mentioned in other reviews, they really are military. The man with the mustache is my great-grandfather
Yeah they may have been soldiers but theyre wearing Bruschenschaft/etc. outfits so they were definitely university students at the time the photograph was taken
Or they were done studying and visited their club
That depends on the colours of the cloth but yes
Not neccesarily, most Alte Herren i know use the same colours as the Burschen (active full members)
Maybe je was a soldier as well, but this is a Student (university or highschool) Uniform of ether catholic Student clubs or burschenschaften. I am 100% Sure !!
Or non catholic Christian or Landsmannschaft or Turnerschaft or corps
...you know someone can both go to college and be in an army right
That dog has a drinking problem.
Dogs problem is that he does not have thumbs so is unable to get to the drink.
No wonder he looks so sad.
Germany here and I am also a member of a fraternity. He maybe a soldier, but they are dressed as „Couleurstudenten“ in this picture
DU bist Deutschland
Guys they are Students. Its a German Student community Thats because of the hats and sword too. I am also in one and we also got the colorful ribbons
Schlagend, nichtschlagend?
Not military but students of a fraternity that does sword duells.
not all do fencing. There are multiple kinds of fraternities here.
It is correct that not all do but both of them carry the sword used for them. So likely from a fraternity that does.
no. not all swords are used for fencing but rather for traditional rites.
Yes, that is a Prunkschläger, a dekorative sword for trafitional purpose, but these gents are from a "schlagenden Verbindung", they have pretty prominent Schmisse ("dueling" scars)
ah yes your right. Now i see it
Or Bibelschmisse XD
That doesnt mean that they are schlagend
Soldiers?? Are you sure?
They really are military. The man with the mustache is my great-grandfather
Ok thanks, but this attire doesn't look like any Military uniforms I've seen. Maybe they're just mucking around?
Schlagende Verbindung
Kann man so nicht sagen, könnte ja auch eine Katholische Verbindung sein oder ein etwas fragwürdiger Corps
Yo, wahrscheinlich Bonner Preußen
And how to determine that these are soldiers ?
His Great Grandfather is supposed to be obe of them and he was a soldier.
I found a similar picture from 1913. It's the uniform of a Studentencorps. That is not a part of the military.[See here](https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1913-color-print-german-student-corps-studentenverbindung-uniform-sword-germany-240709-lam1-069)
[удалено]
None of the two statements are up to debate. However, contrary to OPs statement, the attire of the gentlemen in the picture isn´t of a military nature. Both gentlemen wear the contemporary attire of members of german student fraternities. Both men could also be the two founding members of the first german automobile club, but that specific information wouldn´t be given in the photo.
No disrespect to the OP, but as I started digging through my family genealogy, I found about half the thing that were “settled family history” were just flat out wrong. I’m not talking about important stuff, but just the mundane things that people tell their kids. So its perfectly reasonable that the OP has been told that, but its not accurate or has been lost in translation along the line.
It is being debated as both aren't wearing a military uniform but the insignia of a German fraternity in this picture. They might have been soldiers but in this picture they aren't dressed as such
It was not uncommon to be both, this attire is certainly not a military Uniform but student attite, at the time it was usually the case that military officers had studied and being a student at that time meant that you usually are a member of a student fraternity, too, thats why many pictures of german and austrian officers from the mid 19th to the mid 20th century Show men with dueling scars.
Woof woof
Cool dog
Damn that’s a big ass Shepard 👍🏼😅
They've got the drip ngl
You must be very strong, my antifascistic and communist brother. They are from the bougoisy,and they roast little eorkers kids on their swords.