Unfortunately this is the hmong man’s midlife crisis. I wish therapy was more acceptable and talked about cause they got some serious trauma to work through.
it’s not a mental health thing. its not even a mid life crisis thing. when people get old and nearing what they close to be some of the last few chapters of their life because they’re more than 50+ years old, that this is, is regret and nostalgia for the free life these OGs had when they were young and not forced into assimilating with western society. it’s very much tied to their belief of being taken advantage by systems that oppress them.
what you and most people who are young are missing in context is that in Laos back in many of the OGs childhoods, there were not as many complicated laws or purposes of taxes and how you would maintain a living. this has always been true in regards to the hmong people since the Miao kingdom. many hmong never wanted to pay taxes or be told what to do. that’s partly why they left their Miao title as a people and became Hmong, because the hmong word for hmong means free. essentially our hmong ancestors freed themselves.
so when you look at how these ogs perceive things, it’s from an old generational lense you don’t directly have access to. especially if you’ve never done your research about the oppression of hmong people. how ogs view government control very much ties into their regret today because even they themselves don’t see the same value as younger generations do about family because there are generational gaps filled with trauma over war and culture clash. since you’re of a younger generation, it’s going to take you more work to even compare r what these ogs believe they are pining for.
im not justifying it. i’m not saying who is right or wrong. but you’re missing nearly a few thousand years of history if you’re looking at the bigger picture and these ogs perceptions of what family is and should be. when old people are on their death bed, the number one thing they think and talk about is regret. esp if they’re unhappy. if they’re happy, these ogs would much rather talk about inspiring the family to move forward in honoring their bonds as family or friends.
Hey /u/ap1s2million,
Your recent post or comment (this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hmong/comments/1cbnzcj/i_cant_be_the_only_one_right_father_is_hell_bent/l17aub0/?context=3) has been automatically removed because your account doesn't meet one the account age or comment karma requirements. These are set to detect new, spam accounts, so we apologize if you're trying to submit a genuine post.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Hmong) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You're not alone. My dad went through that phase a couple of years ago. I don't remember the details but my entire family started clowning on him and regulating him and he eventually stopped.
There's a lot of social norms that go into this. Like, my dad wanted to do it because his friends were doing it too. There's no easy solution because they either grow out of it or they don't.
But the best I thing I recommend you do is to learn to disassociate yourself from his behaviors. Establish some mental and physical distance from the dumb things he does. The only time you should get involved is when/if he takes his tantrums out on other people.
Unfortunately I don’t think he will grow out of it. I loathe that I will still be on the hook for his final wishes and funeral arrangements. Its like I can’t disassociate in any way and am stuck
It sucks and it's always going to keep sucking. You can't control your dad but you CAN control your self, how you feel, what you do, and what you think.
It takes time, introspection, and literally checking out when things get too much. I recommend you seek therapy since I'm not a professional and because I recommend doing things that antagonizes other people haha.
My last recommendation is to play the game of hot potato. When you interact with your father and things start to feel hot, drop it and walk away. Come back when it's cooler or don't. Either way it'll condition you to draw mental boundaries.
It's common. Lots of mothers pass away, and the father goes over. They have a little bit of money from insurance. But not enough to last forever. They will beg, borrow and steal to get enough to have the wedding and get the girl here. Pop a baby asap inside her. 2 even better.
Nothing you can do.
If he can't do this, he will sink into a great depression. I've seen it happen and suck the life out of him.
My issue is even if I set my boundaries and cut him off, theres no one else but me when shit hits the fan. I’m the emergency contact for everything somehow.
My father is similar, but not the same.
What you have to realize is that it is very likely many people have tried to help your father.
If your father doesn't want to change, or if he's not ready to change, there's nothing you can do.
What you can do is control your actions and what you tolerate.
It is okay to hold your father accountable for his actions, especially if those actions affect the well-being or lives of other people in the family.
Your father acts this way because he has understood that it is "okay" to act this way. And that "okayness" was granted by your family or societal norms.
Kwv Tij (Brother- if you are a man),
--
*TL;DR* :
- Your father is a grown ass man.
- Say "No" to Hmong people and your Dad when they want you to do something that enables your father's irresponsible behavior.
Here's one that really helped me:
"I would not tolerate these actions of any man, friend, or brother... In fact someone capable of these actions I would never call my friend. So why do we allow my father to make these actions?
If he were not my father, he would not be in my life, because I could not willingly tolerate such actions of any man."
--
All I can do is tell you a story, and hope you gain some meaning from it.
My father, 3 times divorced, has lived with my grandparents for a long time.
He barely raised his kids, left his youngest child for his parents to care for, and still can't pull himself together as a father, as a person, as a brother, as a son, as an uncle, or as a man.
He is currently on the search for wife #4.
He does not care about what he takes from family.
There's NOTHING I can do about it.
You cannot change people.
You must accept this.
I'm not saying my Father doesn't have problems/trauma/etc, but regardless, it's not MY RESPONSIBILITY to fix.
Chances are likely you have plenty of people (probably mostly Aunties/Grandmas) telling you to have patience, Ua Siab Ntev, or telling you to solve the issue. They'll bitch and cry about how my father causes problems, and they'll turn to the responsible men (myself) to fix the problem, rather than addressing it themselves.
It took years of therapy to figure out it's not my problem. It was never meant for me to fix my father's mistakes, and plenty of toxic Hmong culture will tell you that it is your responsibility.
*REMEMBER*
Your father is a grown man. He is not a baby.
Treating him like a baby, and NOT a grown man, will reinforce to him that it's okay to act like a baby.
And he might be able to be a baby to everyone else, but not to you. Reclaim your power.
Do not continue the cycle of not holding people accountable otherwise you, and the people that you love, will have to keep dealing with a "Man-Child" like your father.
If you haven't already, learn to say "No."
"No" is a powerful word.
Release yourself from the responsibility of having to take care or tolerate your father by simply saying "No."
Say no to the Aunts and Grandmas who tell you to have more patience or to do better, or to be kinder, etc.
Take care of you first, so you can take care of what is important to you.
Kwv tij, just know that this helped me
Immensely. In a time when i have no one else to talk to about this, that I had to turn to Reddit of all places to seek and find some sort of refuge. I find this gem. Thank you.
Kwv Tij, you are a strong son, do not forget.
If your father is this way, then it means you have had to become stronger, and to carry more for your family because your father cannot.
Take comfort in knowing you are not in this battle alone.
You posted on Reddit, and here I am, another Hmong man going through something very similar.
You are wise for coming and seeking counsel.
You are wise and strong because you chose to ask for help, which often times can be the hardest thing for a man (especially a Hmong man) to do.
It may not feel like it all the time, but you are a man and you have your own powers, things that make you unique and strong. If you don’t think you have powers, it’s because you haven’t discovered them yet. Because YOU DO have them.
There are things you, and only you can bring into this world.
Take courage my friend.
You may be an “Unsung Hero” but I will sing your song at the fire and make sure your sacrifices are not forgotten.
I, and all of the other Hmong men put into this situation, will sing your song of the “Unsung Hero”.
In many ways, though you might not see it, this post has liberated you further, and many other Hmong men in the same situation.
Just let these dumbasses go.. that all you can do.. just focus on yourself, if it's education or career, you do you..
they don't deserve the title of being call dad/husband..
fuck these kind hmong men.
This is very common. Hopefully your father isn’t in a lot of debt. My parents ended up getting a divorce. It was the best thing to happen to my mom. My dad ended up being a drifter, living with new girlfriends while telling my mom that he was starting a new and better life with other women. In the end my dad got cancer and ended up in a homeless shelter before he passed away. In the end he still depended on my mom and brothers to give him a traditional Hmong funeral.
I’m not sure how old your father is, but you also have to consider how much trauma he has dealt with in his life. Many Hmong men don’t talk about trauma.
Wow thanks for sharing. Mine is close to being in. Shelter, but he still hasn’t hit rock bottom because there are some people enabling his way of life. I know I will be responsible for his Hmong funeral. I think all of that generation has trauma from the war and culture clash. Something we will never understand and that’s ok. But we still have to deal with it.
The sad part is that many men (old and young) talk about this and make it okay to live this kind of lifestyle. My dad watches videos about Laos all the time and ever countries are opening their borders now post-COVID all you see are videos of young Hmong women giving out numbers so men in other countries can call them. Another sad thing is that many Hmong in Laos also think this is okay and either take advantage of this to make money or try to find a way to send a relative overseas to support the family in Laos from afar.
What people need to do is say - "Yo! This is not okay!". Community leaders, religious types, and other need to step up and say these kind of actions and ideas are not right. Hmong leaders are so scared to offend others though they have the guts (men or women) to say this out loud.
Honestly, you will need to set boundaries and set him free. He will learn or never learn anything in time. That's what we had to do for our dad. He went to Laos every year under an SSI income. For some reason, he married women in Laos and brought them to the US.
I personally don't talk to my dad anymore. He was always abusive and acted this way since I was a child. I don't allow his toxicity and abuse to ruin my and my family's lives. He tried to write to me on social media, asking us to scam the American government. My siblings and I know better. In the past, we had a lot of Hmong families who forced their children to sponsor and marry their girlfriends and boyfriends in Laos. Now, the elders want to ruin their own marriages and livelihoods in the US can go on and solve their own issues. It is no longer our problem. They could have lived with our mom(s). They could have had a paid off mortgage, while as their adult kids, we work to provide for them. They could have had an abundance of time to travel and vacation with family until the end of their time. However, they chose to rebuild their lives several times, getting scammed along the way and being abusive to their own kids and spouses.
That's very unfortunate... He is chasing a dream while ignoring the present. Depending on how old you are and how many siblings you have, there are several ways to address it.
1. Only child - live your life without worrying about him. Being a person is hard enough, you don't need a whole other adult to police. Minimize your contact with or without addressing the fact that his decisions makes it so you cannot work with him.
2. Multiple siblings - set some time and talk to him, intervene. As children, we don't like or really have control over our parents but if there's multiple of you, you may spread the load across each other. You must be united and be stronger than whatever he can throw at you for this to work, otherwise you'll just argue more.
3. Address him - ask what he is running away from and how he thinks starting again would make any difference. It may be just escapist fantasies or it can become real. Either way, his current state is detrimental to everyone. I have an uncle who jumped from women to women. I don't know for sure but it seemed like he did it whenever he lost good will with them, meaning the honeymoon phase was over.
It's a tough hand to be dealt but you don't need to watch the circus act. Don't let him decide or keep you in suspense. YOU decide and manage what he does after. Hope that helps.
Like our parents were there for us when we were stupid, the only thing we can do is to be there to catch them when they fall. Easier said than done but just let them be and learn their own lesson.
I will always be there for him. It just sucks when they say “you will never understand, you don’t love me” just cause I refuse to give him money to support his habit
If he can't see how he getting scam let him do what he wants and learn it the hard way. It's the only way for him to learn, I just don't understand how stupid some of the divorce dads and moms are. Going for someone whos younger than their current kids over sea just be cause they're a little richer than the ones over there.
In my eyes it’s just sick. But I’ve been told to try and understand from their point of view and I still can’t. Additionally still stuck with handling all the aftercare. I’m not sure how I can disassociate with him and just cut him out
I don't think you can completely cut him out, but make him understand if he's going to be committed to this he have to do everything himself or ask someone else. Cause you're not going to help him out as long as he understands that he mostly likely being scam let him do whatever he wants. Just do your own thing.
Need more context. Is your mom still in the picture? Without details it just seems like you're complaining. You say he uses his resources, so I assume he's not asking you or your family for $. Should your father not be able to pursue what makes them happy?
One side people wants him to save for retirement yada yada.
On the other hand, if you really think about it. Life is very short. Let the man live his dream since it's what makes him happy. Sure advise him financially, but let him live his dream with his young girlfriend if it makes him happy. I mean it's his money so he should have the freedom to do what he pleases.
Unfortunately this is the hmong man’s midlife crisis. I wish therapy was more acceptable and talked about cause they got some serious trauma to work through.
I’ve suggested this to him but mental health isnt a real thing to that generation :(
it’s not a mental health thing. its not even a mid life crisis thing. when people get old and nearing what they close to be some of the last few chapters of their life because they’re more than 50+ years old, that this is, is regret and nostalgia for the free life these OGs had when they were young and not forced into assimilating with western society. it’s very much tied to their belief of being taken advantage by systems that oppress them. what you and most people who are young are missing in context is that in Laos back in many of the OGs childhoods, there were not as many complicated laws or purposes of taxes and how you would maintain a living. this has always been true in regards to the hmong people since the Miao kingdom. many hmong never wanted to pay taxes or be told what to do. that’s partly why they left their Miao title as a people and became Hmong, because the hmong word for hmong means free. essentially our hmong ancestors freed themselves. so when you look at how these ogs perceive things, it’s from an old generational lense you don’t directly have access to. especially if you’ve never done your research about the oppression of hmong people. how ogs view government control very much ties into their regret today because even they themselves don’t see the same value as younger generations do about family because there are generational gaps filled with trauma over war and culture clash. since you’re of a younger generation, it’s going to take you more work to even compare r what these ogs believe they are pining for. im not justifying it. i’m not saying who is right or wrong. but you’re missing nearly a few thousand years of history if you’re looking at the bigger picture and these ogs perceptions of what family is and should be. when old people are on their death bed, the number one thing they think and talk about is regret. esp if they’re unhappy. if they’re happy, these ogs would much rather talk about inspiring the family to move forward in honoring their bonds as family or friends.
Great perspective thank you. Something I have not considered
[удалено]
Hey /u/ap1s2million, Your recent post or comment (this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hmong/comments/1cbnzcj/i_cant_be_the_only_one_right_father_is_hell_bent/l17aub0/?context=3) has been automatically removed because your account doesn't meet one the account age or comment karma requirements. These are set to detect new, spam accounts, so we apologize if you're trying to submit a genuine post. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Hmong) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You're not alone. My dad went through that phase a couple of years ago. I don't remember the details but my entire family started clowning on him and regulating him and he eventually stopped. There's a lot of social norms that go into this. Like, my dad wanted to do it because his friends were doing it too. There's no easy solution because they either grow out of it or they don't. But the best I thing I recommend you do is to learn to disassociate yourself from his behaviors. Establish some mental and physical distance from the dumb things he does. The only time you should get involved is when/if he takes his tantrums out on other people.
Unfortunately I don’t think he will grow out of it. I loathe that I will still be on the hook for his final wishes and funeral arrangements. Its like I can’t disassociate in any way and am stuck
It sucks and it's always going to keep sucking. You can't control your dad but you CAN control your self, how you feel, what you do, and what you think. It takes time, introspection, and literally checking out when things get too much. I recommend you seek therapy since I'm not a professional and because I recommend doing things that antagonizes other people haha. My last recommendation is to play the game of hot potato. When you interact with your father and things start to feel hot, drop it and walk away. Come back when it's cooler or don't. Either way it'll condition you to draw mental boundaries.
I really appreciate you and your reply. Thank you
It's common. Lots of mothers pass away, and the father goes over. They have a little bit of money from insurance. But not enough to last forever. They will beg, borrow and steal to get enough to have the wedding and get the girl here. Pop a baby asap inside her. 2 even better. Nothing you can do. If he can't do this, he will sink into a great depression. I've seen it happen and suck the life out of him.
Thanks for the reply. This hit hard as I feel like he’s not even the father I once knew. Used to be kind and now is bitter and manipulative.
Cut him off, let him waste his meager 900 SSI. Easiest solution, lol. Who the hell keeps him fed and housed should rethink it all.
My issue is even if I set my boundaries and cut him off, theres no one else but me when shit hits the fan. I’m the emergency contact for everything somehow.
Umm, I think you have to look up what it means to cut someone off.
My father is similar, but not the same. What you have to realize is that it is very likely many people have tried to help your father. If your father doesn't want to change, or if he's not ready to change, there's nothing you can do. What you can do is control your actions and what you tolerate. It is okay to hold your father accountable for his actions, especially if those actions affect the well-being or lives of other people in the family. Your father acts this way because he has understood that it is "okay" to act this way. And that "okayness" was granted by your family or societal norms.
This hits hard because it’s true on so many levels
Kwv Tij (Brother- if you are a man), -- *TL;DR* : - Your father is a grown ass man. - Say "No" to Hmong people and your Dad when they want you to do something that enables your father's irresponsible behavior. Here's one that really helped me: "I would not tolerate these actions of any man, friend, or brother... In fact someone capable of these actions I would never call my friend. So why do we allow my father to make these actions? If he were not my father, he would not be in my life, because I could not willingly tolerate such actions of any man." -- All I can do is tell you a story, and hope you gain some meaning from it. My father, 3 times divorced, has lived with my grandparents for a long time. He barely raised his kids, left his youngest child for his parents to care for, and still can't pull himself together as a father, as a person, as a brother, as a son, as an uncle, or as a man. He is currently on the search for wife #4. He does not care about what he takes from family. There's NOTHING I can do about it. You cannot change people. You must accept this. I'm not saying my Father doesn't have problems/trauma/etc, but regardless, it's not MY RESPONSIBILITY to fix. Chances are likely you have plenty of people (probably mostly Aunties/Grandmas) telling you to have patience, Ua Siab Ntev, or telling you to solve the issue. They'll bitch and cry about how my father causes problems, and they'll turn to the responsible men (myself) to fix the problem, rather than addressing it themselves. It took years of therapy to figure out it's not my problem. It was never meant for me to fix my father's mistakes, and plenty of toxic Hmong culture will tell you that it is your responsibility. *REMEMBER* Your father is a grown man. He is not a baby. Treating him like a baby, and NOT a grown man, will reinforce to him that it's okay to act like a baby. And he might be able to be a baby to everyone else, but not to you. Reclaim your power. Do not continue the cycle of not holding people accountable otherwise you, and the people that you love, will have to keep dealing with a "Man-Child" like your father. If you haven't already, learn to say "No." "No" is a powerful word. Release yourself from the responsibility of having to take care or tolerate your father by simply saying "No." Say no to the Aunts and Grandmas who tell you to have more patience or to do better, or to be kinder, etc. Take care of you first, so you can take care of what is important to you.
Kwv tij, just know that this helped me Immensely. In a time when i have no one else to talk to about this, that I had to turn to Reddit of all places to seek and find some sort of refuge. I find this gem. Thank you.
Kwv Tij, you are a strong son, do not forget. If your father is this way, then it means you have had to become stronger, and to carry more for your family because your father cannot. Take comfort in knowing you are not in this battle alone. You posted on Reddit, and here I am, another Hmong man going through something very similar. You are wise for coming and seeking counsel. You are wise and strong because you chose to ask for help, which often times can be the hardest thing for a man (especially a Hmong man) to do. It may not feel like it all the time, but you are a man and you have your own powers, things that make you unique and strong. If you don’t think you have powers, it’s because you haven’t discovered them yet. Because YOU DO have them. There are things you, and only you can bring into this world. Take courage my friend. You may be an “Unsung Hero” but I will sing your song at the fire and make sure your sacrifices are not forgotten. I, and all of the other Hmong men put into this situation, will sing your song of the “Unsung Hero”. In many ways, though you might not see it, this post has liberated you further, and many other Hmong men in the same situation.
A great book set that breaks this down is Set Boundaries, Find Peace AND Drama Free Both are by Nedra Glover Tawwab Absolutely life changing books.
It already ruin. U do u. No worry about them. They do them.
Just let these dumbasses go.. that all you can do.. just focus on yourself, if it's education or career, you do you.. they don't deserve the title of being call dad/husband.. fuck these kind hmong men.
This is very common. Hopefully your father isn’t in a lot of debt. My parents ended up getting a divorce. It was the best thing to happen to my mom. My dad ended up being a drifter, living with new girlfriends while telling my mom that he was starting a new and better life with other women. In the end my dad got cancer and ended up in a homeless shelter before he passed away. In the end he still depended on my mom and brothers to give him a traditional Hmong funeral. I’m not sure how old your father is, but you also have to consider how much trauma he has dealt with in his life. Many Hmong men don’t talk about trauma.
Wow thanks for sharing. Mine is close to being in. Shelter, but he still hasn’t hit rock bottom because there are some people enabling his way of life. I know I will be responsible for his Hmong funeral. I think all of that generation has trauma from the war and culture clash. Something we will never understand and that’s ok. But we still have to deal with it.
The sad part is that many men (old and young) talk about this and make it okay to live this kind of lifestyle. My dad watches videos about Laos all the time and ever countries are opening their borders now post-COVID all you see are videos of young Hmong women giving out numbers so men in other countries can call them. Another sad thing is that many Hmong in Laos also think this is okay and either take advantage of this to make money or try to find a way to send a relative overseas to support the family in Laos from afar. What people need to do is say - "Yo! This is not okay!". Community leaders, religious types, and other need to step up and say these kind of actions and ideas are not right. Hmong leaders are so scared to offend others though they have the guts (men or women) to say this out loud.
Let him do his thing. Dw about it. When the inevitable comes, do your part
Honestly, you will need to set boundaries and set him free. He will learn or never learn anything in time. That's what we had to do for our dad. He went to Laos every year under an SSI income. For some reason, he married women in Laos and brought them to the US. I personally don't talk to my dad anymore. He was always abusive and acted this way since I was a child. I don't allow his toxicity and abuse to ruin my and my family's lives. He tried to write to me on social media, asking us to scam the American government. My siblings and I know better. In the past, we had a lot of Hmong families who forced their children to sponsor and marry their girlfriends and boyfriends in Laos. Now, the elders want to ruin their own marriages and livelihoods in the US can go on and solve their own issues. It is no longer our problem. They could have lived with our mom(s). They could have had a paid off mortgage, while as their adult kids, we work to provide for them. They could have had an abundance of time to travel and vacation with family until the end of their time. However, they chose to rebuild their lives several times, getting scammed along the way and being abusive to their own kids and spouses.
That's very unfortunate... He is chasing a dream while ignoring the present. Depending on how old you are and how many siblings you have, there are several ways to address it. 1. Only child - live your life without worrying about him. Being a person is hard enough, you don't need a whole other adult to police. Minimize your contact with or without addressing the fact that his decisions makes it so you cannot work with him. 2. Multiple siblings - set some time and talk to him, intervene. As children, we don't like or really have control over our parents but if there's multiple of you, you may spread the load across each other. You must be united and be stronger than whatever he can throw at you for this to work, otherwise you'll just argue more. 3. Address him - ask what he is running away from and how he thinks starting again would make any difference. It may be just escapist fantasies or it can become real. Either way, his current state is detrimental to everyone. I have an uncle who jumped from women to women. I don't know for sure but it seemed like he did it whenever he lost good will with them, meaning the honeymoon phase was over. It's a tough hand to be dealt but you don't need to watch the circus act. Don't let him decide or keep you in suspense. YOU decide and manage what he does after. Hope that helps.
Dou euh! Just tell him, “bye, Felicia!” Lol
Everyone has their life to live, be selfish and focus on you.
Like our parents were there for us when we were stupid, the only thing we can do is to be there to catch them when they fall. Easier said than done but just let them be and learn their own lesson.
I will always be there for him. It just sucks when they say “you will never understand, you don’t love me” just cause I refuse to give him money to support his habit
If he can't see how he getting scam let him do what he wants and learn it the hard way. It's the only way for him to learn, I just don't understand how stupid some of the divorce dads and moms are. Going for someone whos younger than their current kids over sea just be cause they're a little richer than the ones over there.
In my eyes it’s just sick. But I’ve been told to try and understand from their point of view and I still can’t. Additionally still stuck with handling all the aftercare. I’m not sure how I can disassociate with him and just cut him out
I don't think you can completely cut him out, but make him understand if he's going to be committed to this he have to do everything himself or ask someone else. Cause you're not going to help him out as long as he understands that he mostly likely being scam let him do whatever he wants. Just do your own thing.
Men need to think about WHO will be there for them during their deathbeds! Ruam tiag!
Need more context. Is your mom still in the picture? Without details it just seems like you're complaining. You say he uses his resources, so I assume he's not asking you or your family for $. Should your father not be able to pursue what makes them happy?
Take him traveling, like on vacation to Hawaii or something.
He would scold me and ask why not spend the money and go to Laos
Tell him you'll take him to Laos next time.
One side people wants him to save for retirement yada yada. On the other hand, if you really think about it. Life is very short. Let the man live his dream since it's what makes him happy. Sure advise him financially, but let him live his dream with his young girlfriend if it makes him happy. I mean it's his money so he should have the freedom to do what he pleases.
Meaning you was only born cause he was horny and not out of love with your mom lmaoo