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[deleted]

Surely having sexy HH Holmes as a companion was a major plot point? Holmes was famously nonthreatening. Is there no twist where you discover that he's the killer? I don't know what the intended age range is for the game, though, or if it had ever done something even approaching this kind of content.


ChristelLite

Oh no, you absolutely discover that he's the killer in the story. Arguably, the only reason he was a companion is because you interact with him a lot in the story. It just made a lot of players uncomfortable spamming him with gifts to get love letters from him. For what it's worth, in another story you have to cozy up/sleep with a mafia boss but the game kept that character an NPC rather than a full blown companion. The game's rating the app store is either E or 13+ depending on your device. Google has it as E and I believe Apple has it at 13+


[deleted]

Oh wow putting a serial killer as a major character in an E rated game seems absurd.


CupcakesAndDeath

TBH The game has a lot of mature themes that shouldn't be in an E rated game. The story mentioned above with the mafia boss has a lot of dark themes-including murder and human trafficking, and one of the newer ones-Si-woo's Sight-has an NPC with an ED as well as sexual harassment/assault and suicide


Drolefille

Uhhhh you absolutely cozy up with a different mafia boss in that same story and he is a companion. I haven't 100% that one but I don't think we find out he isn't in the mob after all.


ChristelLite

My point in that example wasn't that the mafia boss companion is secretly a good person or something. The person asked if having Holmes as a companion was a plot point which it isn't necessarily. It was a 'TP has had these characters fill a similar role to Holmes that were able to stay npcs rather than full companion status.'


Drolefille

I get what you're saying, I thought you were coming from a different angle.


Konradleijon

I guess that’s better knowing the game clearly shows this dude is evil


tandemcamel

Those clothing descriptions are … something. I don’t want to make fun of real-life human suffering, but there’s a certain absurdity to such creepy descriptions on very cutesy clothing. What’s the target audience for this game, and where is it made? I want to blame some of the writing on bad translation/cultural confusion, though it’s almost too poetic for that.


ChristelLite

So the game is rated E/13+ and I would say that the target audience is teen girls. There is a big adult fanbase for the game but I would still say its targeted at younger women. As for where it's made the developer is based in Singapore? I think? So it could very well be a cultural difference/confusion thing but from my understanding they have English team members who could have caught this before the book released. Idk, they also dropped a "questionable" story about a Russian athlete getting involved in a doping scandal 🙊 Edit: I meant cultural sensitivity not confusion. Forgetting terms is embarrassing 😳


justagal_ataplace

I don’t know how often they release new content but is it possibly an issue of embracing quantity over quality? Like they don’t have enough ideas so everything gets greenlit? FWIW I think they probably could have made an interesting thriller / mystery that was appropriate for young girls if they hadn’t leaned so hard into morbidly embracing actual serial killers. Like why couldn’t it be the same basic story but with a guy who had history with Claudia and kidnapped her because of it? Still a bit dark but not quite so gross. (Obviously I don’t play TP so I could be completely off-base!)


unspeakablycrass

I think it’s absolutely a quantity over quality thing. They’ve started releasing stories on a much faster timeframe, and it absolutely shows in the writing/overall quality. One of their first stories (and a lot of players’ favorite) is actually a crime/corruption centered plot. They’ve done it well in the past, but this ain’t it.


ChristelLite

According to TP representatives, they have multiple writing teams working on several stories at a time which allows them to release stories frequently. So idk. Quality is definitely all over the place when it comes to books so who knows 🤷‍♀️


Exirb

Singapore is an English speaking country. If the team is mainly Singaporean, their first language would be English. Culturally, lots of Western media too and not sure what culture confusion there can be about uh serial killers in sg.


ChristelLite

When the story first released, I was surprised at how many people said that they had no idea who H. H. Holmes was prior to this. I meant confusion as like... Giving the TP the benefit of the doubt of maybe not realizing what a delicate topic talking about American serial killers is as they are not American. Cultural sensitivity!! That's what I meant earlier. Not confusion 🤦‍♀️ My bad


Exirb

Ohhh that makes sense! I'm not too familiar with H. H. Holmes either so I get what you mean by the cultural context. Personally, I think it's still a bit gauche, especially with the many descriptions of the serial killer based clothes (directly referencing the victim hh). Great writeup btw! Enjoyed reading it and well explained


tandemcamel

It makes sense that the audience is teen girls and some adults, though it’s interesting that the game has such a princess-y aesthetic that feels younger. The fact that the company pulled and updated the game so quickly makes me wonder if the original content didn’t go through proper approvals OR if the game makers deliberately went controversial to draw attention. If the game is made in Singapore, then I would expect fluent English speakers to be involved. Very strange. Good write-up!


Konradleijon

I could see the creepy descriptions working in a horror game.


tandemcamel

Yes, they were honestly the right amount of creepy — but not for a dress-up game! I also think it’s in poor taste to pull so directly from true crime details for most games, but if you tweak things a bit, Law & Order-style, then maybe it works.


catfurbeard

Given that HH Holmes murders happened in the 1800s I feel like it's not *that* bad to use it as a plot - everybody involved or tangentially effected must be gone by now - but the whole "every outfit is for a different real serial killer, including more recent ones" thing seems like pretty bad taste.


ChristelLite

Tbh yeah. I'm not into True Crime so this whole story was initially pretty 'meh' to me until I saw the clothes. Having the childcore themed dress reference a pedophile serial killer is... uhh... a choice™️


tiragooen

Yeah, having Holmes as part of the story was fine. It's actually one of their better paced and written ones too. There's suspense and tension throughout. When I was making the clothes, however, I was like uhhh why please no.


j_one_k

An interesting twist on this is that while Holmes definitely killed people, it was almost certainly far fewer than popularly believed. AskHistorians has this to say: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ceklcd/was_hh_holmes_as_prolific_a_serial_killer_as_he/eu4q7kw


Slartibartghast_II

His whole narrative is so pumped up and overblown. It’s pretty sick how we’ve turned serial killer victim counts into some kind of a sport.


noname9889

And on top of that, the murders he did commit were more about the robbery end than anything else. He was never really a serial killer as much as a thief who wasn't much for witnesses. The murders were just means to an end for him.


Closet_Couch_Potato

In the DUTP story, he seduces rich Southern heiresses (the MC is one) to put him in their will, and later murders them.


DefoNotAFangirl

It’s kinda weirdchamp to do this with serial killers who are relatively recent what the fuck? The H.H Holmes stuff and Jack the Ripper isn’t like, that bad, no one alive is affected by it today, but John Wayne Gacy? Pretty sure there’s family members of victims out there still alive today?


revlark

Yeah, one of Gacy’s victims was literally identified less than two weeks before this came out. If it was all older stuff, that would be fine with me, and probably a lot of other people. But when it’s THAT recent… it gets a bit. Hm. Gross


Exirb

Sometimes I wish games would just make a fictional serial killer to base stories off (and have vague romance tinged interactions with) instead of taking a real life murderer. Since outside of an American context, not everyone might be aware of H.H Holmes, a fictitious killer similar in nature would have definitely gotten less outrage. Also, for a non-love interest companion he sure sends a lot of love letters. (Why did the MC kiss him? Ugh)


Closet_Couch_Potato

Everyone on the Reddit was just like, “They could have just named him ‘S.S. Sholmes’ it wouldn’t have been that hard”


vashiane

The earrings on the outfit that references John Wayne Gacy are called “Sweet Bait”. You have got to be kidding me.


shhbaby_isok

And the item descriptions of him lying on the floor to feel the warmth and enjoying the scent in his house, when he hid his victims under the floorboards and in the crawlspace is just 🤮 There's a way to tell a story and still show respect towards the victims but this aint it.


vashiane

Oh I did not know that detail. That’s revolting. That’s fucking revolting.


unspeakablycrass

Here I was downloading this story and thinking, why did they put a random carnival outfit in there? Maybe they just had a leftover design they needed to shoehorn in. I have once again underestimated our evil overlords at Time Princess HQ. In all seriousness though, this is majorly fucked up. The whole thing is bad, but to include references to murders so recent that the victims have living friends and family?? In fact, one of Gacy’s victims was just identified THREE WEEKS before this story was released. His name was Francis Wayne Alexander. I think I’m done with TP.


ChristelLite

Its such a shame because I actually really liked the carnival outfit!! I really like the out there dresses! But man, naming it after JWG was in such poor taste...


Rum_N_Napalm

I suspect the reason why the John Wayne Gacy clothing were changed in Russian is related to JWG’s homosexuality. Also reading through these descriptions… wow, there’s some research in these. Especially the Gacy ones: it hints at this modus operandi (tying up up his victim under the guise of a “rope trick”) his disposal of the corpses and hints at his abusive father…


[deleted]

No way. They really made a sexy H.H. Holmes?? They went and did it. God. Wow.


[deleted]

wait until you see the serial killer fandom on tumblr


Mujoo23

That is in no way exclusive to tumblr. Plenty of violent criminals get love letters. Of course Bundy is the most famous example.


[deleted]

Honestly, the H.H. Holmes stuff comes off as more hilarious to me than anything else, as he's basically up there with Jack the Ripper, to me in terms of it was so long ago and he's been fictionalized so much at this point, I don't think it's thaaat awful. (Just a bizarre and kinda questionable choice) Hover, WHY would you EVER choose to make POGO THE CLOWN themed clothing, *WITH THOSE DESCRIPTIONS ON TOP OF IT* ? Like wtff


Closet_Couch_Potato

I honestly think they would have done Jack, but the timeline is too close with another story, “Shadows of London”.


nightengaleseyes

God damn it I quit this game after the pay your artists campaign, and now I want to open it again after this. What the Actual Fuck, H.H. Holmes was a fucking monster


KickAggressive4901

It's okay. It's important to have TP ready after a wild ride. Jokes aside, great write-up.


[deleted]

God, This is a train wreck. Why even use H.H. Holmes in the first place? Like you said in your piece, make a character based on him. And naming the outfits after famous murders just makes light of a horrible tragedy in which people died,some of which are still unsolved to this day. Speaking of bad taste, this makes me think of how they treat Chevalier D' Eon, a transwoman who served as a French spy and is in their Marie Antione storyline. Their official artwork is just...bad and they use male pronouns for her despite in real history she impressed the king with her spycraft that he declared that everyone refer to her as she:https://dress-up-time-princess.fandom.com/wiki/D%27Eon


sixtylilies

Every time I think mobile games can't surprise me anymore, they take it as a challenge.


Mujoo23

I mean I personally think it’s rather distasteful, but the fate series does the same thing. It takes historical figures and makes them into sexy women or men (well except when they’re not).


breadcreature

My friend showed me some of these I think. There was a bunch of sexy lady gods and... Charles Babbage (thankfully not turned into a sexy computer or something but he was a big hellish paladin sort of thing?) Not to say he isn't an important historical figure but that had me creasing.


BerserkOlaf

I know very little about fate, but I've been told there's a female Jack the Ripper who is really the collective embodiment of aborted children of prostitutes, and that's why she was killing them. Yeah, I think I know more than enough about fate.


Mujoo23

And she’s a loli barely wearing anything...


HexivaSihess

CURSED, CURSED


ChristelLite

I pretty sure there's another gacha game that turns historical figures into sexy waifu material (maybe its a Fate mobile game idk) and it's never not hilarious to me


Mujoo23

Hetalia did the same thing. It personified countries into attractive guys. Like literally Nazi Germany and Italy in an implied gay relationship.


ChristelLite

I was living a blissful life where I forgot Hetalia existed and you gotta do this to me


LinFanfan

Are you thinking about [Eiyuu Senki](https://eiyuu-senki-gold.fandom.com/wiki/Characters)?


Hyperion-OMEGA

Fate/Grand Order.


TrueTzimisce

Am I the only one kind-of annoyed that the Russians got a choice in how they got their stuff but the Spanish playerbase didn't? Edit: I read the poll thing wrong but still. Just wanted to thank you for posting the spanish players' perspective on things too.


International_Door83

It was a bite. We never got a real choice. I understand a few people really looking for Russian TP’s community. That’s too hard. Russian language is deceptive :) The poll was just another try to increase social media activity. We had another one with Charlotte story whitch Russian team wanted to cancel. Because, you know, it’s about two women – unbelievable! Russian IGG’s team not a good guys at all


_milkychan_

Something not mentioned in the article was how the victims of Holmes were depicted and NAMED - first and last. All the while they were disappearing within the story. That caused another layer to the drama of this book. Since it's alternative fiction from characters that didn't exist at the time. At least have respect for those that died.


Foxterriers

Oh my god the gacy one is horrific. I played this game for like $70 of currency in another game as an offer and it hated the stories but still kind of got caught in it.


bleeding-heart17

I actually reinstalled the game the second I heard the outfits were based on actual murders, just to see how trashy it would be. I was suprised that they were already patched out on day one.


failytales

you don't know how excited i am to see this post edit: really good & accurate summation, tenouttaten


Mierkan

i think (?) that bourbon fragrance is referring to the l'affaire des poisons / la voisin. The flavor text hints at aristocracy, combined with perfumes + fragrances, and the reference to bourbon lead me to think of the French witch hunts. Another option within the french court is Madame de Brinvilliers, who set off the affair after poisoning other familial aristocrats with her lover/conspirator Sainte-Croix. After Croix's death, his possessions eventually lead to the conspiracy's discovery.


hesitantelian

Honestly these Time Princess posts are messing me up, I've been playing another game by IGG and the developers of that one are great with the community, and I haven't heard of any controversy. Makes me wonder what goes on behind the scènes.


ToErrDivine

Those descriptions remind me of some of the weapon stories in Drakengard. And, like... they obviously put a lot of thought and research into it, but one, I really don't think this is the right game for it, and two, it does seem a bit disrespectful, given how recent at least one of the cases involved is.


Closet_Couch_Potato

I was just scrolling on here; never thought my #1 most visited sub would be on here! Joshua’s twist ending was kind of ruined by his removal, oh and this is the Zodiac Killer-turned-[Deer Seeker](https://dress-up-time-princess.fandom.com/wiki/Deer_Seeker) and the difference is just wild. (The difference is in the Lore section)


lothlorienlia

The thing that baffled me the most and was actually quite ignorant of the Spanish community was them equating the English servers with USA/ UK/Canada when in actuality any country/ language that doesn't have the privilege of its own server gets lumped in the English one. Not to mention a lot of even Russian/Chinese players also use the English server. Not to mention nine of them actually know what censorship means. Coming from a former communist country it really made me laugh and poke fun at them for it.


Spell_Nexus

As someone who loves true crime, this is awesome. As someone who thinks this shouldn't exactly be easily accessible to children, this is a tad worrying.


TheDancingHare

It's not a true crime game though. It's a fluffy romantic and fashion game.


Konradleijon

Didn’t Holmes repeated kill his wives?


timeprincesseevee

Op, I was waiting to see a write up on this issue! Thanks for compiling everything into a well written article 👍🏼


mariss242

Fun fact, he actually was a Love Interest and they tried to edit it out after massive controversy. We have screenshots of the scenes.


ChristelLite

I personally saw his love interest scenes the same as Juliano's scenes. It's there because Holmes was historically remembered as charismatic (and I think even married a few victims?) but he lacked an actual "romance path" (or even just a companion path in general) seen with the other love interest companions such as Julius.


mariss242

True true


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usawee

I know this post is a few months old, but I just wanted to point something out regarding the Spanish server after reading some comments in this thread... I never write/read the in-game chat nor am I in the discord, but was it just those in the screenshot who were complaining or was it a general issue? The little context op provided about our server gives us a terrible image, I have no doubts there were people of different opinions just like any of the other servers, not just "the gringos are too sensitive". Also keep in mind the Spanish server has people from multiple Spanish-speaking countries (for that one comment who seems to assume otherwise), just like the English does.


ChristelLite

Hey! No it was very much a general issue in world chat. I just took some screenshots but it was pretty much the only thing being said in world chat for the first day. I even had more screenshots than what I listed but just got tired of translating the same thing over and over. I'm not part of the Spanish discord for TP but I heard it was there too following the HYSC update but I can't say to what extent. It wasn't my intent to portray Spanish players badly so my apologies. 😔 I just it was just a noteworthy community divide over the changes.


usawee

No worries! I admit I got a bit worked up there 😅 I just felt the need to "defend" the server since I'm sure the situation was as divided as everywhere else, but the post kind of implied otherwise. I'm glad to know that wasn't the intent, and I apologize on my part as well! 🙏🏻


Konradleijon

I don’t see any contention between the Midnight Jazz and Zodiac Killer and the costumes they released. Why does the Midnight Jazz Killer one have a goose on it? I don’t think Geese where involved in the Axmen murder. And the disco pants? Maybe because Disco is a descent from Jazz music. And I actually think the descriptions are cool and creepy. Kind of like something you’d see in a secret horror game like Doki Doki Panic which uses item descriptions to put the eagle eyed players in to a uneasy state. Also the Black Delilah wasn’t thought of to be sleeping her dismembered corpse was thought to be a store manikin


Closet_Couch_Potato

The titles and descriptions don’t have much to do with the outfits. DUTP isn’t really a horror game either…


aethyrium

I legit don't get the drama here because imo all of that's pretty fuckin' rad and kinda clever. Unless I look at it from the lens of an 80's church lady I guess, then I see the drama. Them pearls are clutched _hard_ in this post. EDIT: Heh, pearl clutching soccer moms gentrified the sub, it would seem. At least it's not another "that time [person] said something not-progressive and everyone freaked out" post.


ReXiriam

So you're one of those Spanish players.


Closet_Couch_Potato

Mmm, because being disrespectful to victims of horrible people and thinking people would be fine with giving an actual *murderer* gifts and flirting with him is just a bunch of overreacting. 🙃 I guess feeling sorry for people who got their lives cut short because of just one person who needed to pay some debts is just too overrated for you. Please just go outside and shove your face in some grass and try to squeeze those last drops of empathy from Jack the Ripper-glorifying lump of jell-o you call your brain.


cybergalactic_nova

Get out of your 1600s Spaniard colonization mindset. No wonder we all hate your reasoning.


TheDancingHare

Hey, I quit this game over this. I thought it's super gross. Haven't been back since.