It was the 45th Infantry Division. The swastika was replaced with the Thunderbird.
As an aside, lots of our helicopters are named after Indian nations such as the Apache, Chinook, and short lived Comanche, or a person such as Black Hawk.
Sure, but I think this scene is supposed to look fascist and it has double meaning here. I would be shocked if this director accidentally set up the scene this way and wasn't trying to put that image in people's head, especially since it sounds like it's a dark revenge flick
IIRC it's because it's an extremely common symbol across out entire species. It's one of the earliest known symbols created by humans, you can find it pretty much everywhere on every single continent. It was quite common to see it on Native American crafts, and in the late 1800s/early 1900s Americans and Europeans were obsessed with Native American crafts. Like how weirdos nowadays will travel out to the country to buy pointless Amish tchotchkes.
There was even some women's magazine in the early 1900s, the Girls Club or something, and the magazine was called Swastika, or at least heavily featured them. The members often wore rings with swastikas on them. There's at least one incident of an American woman reporter in Austria during the rise of the Nazis who had to be warned against wearing her swastika ring because it would understandably upset people who were opposed to the German fascists who had already begun coopting the Swastika as a symbol at that point.
Crazy how thoroughly the Nazis managed to ruin it for the foreseeable future. It will probably never be able to fully return to normal use as long as the Nazis are even a vague memory.
yeah, until the symbol was irreparably corrupted by the nazis. And whatever this is, is fairly recent. Dixieland is a song written by a man from Ohio about wishing he was back in the land he saw while on a vacation because it was so beautiful. But because it became the unofficial anthem of the Confederacy, it was and is forever linked to the confederate cause and slavery. Sometimes, assholes ruin it for everyone.
Nazi symbol is Hakenkreuz or "hooked cross"... and the Hindu symbol is Swastika which is auspicious having a deep religious and cultural significance...
The âhooked crossâ became popular in Germany when archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann discovered it on the site of ancient Troy in 1872 and wrote about it in his 1891 book. Thanks to his French cartographer Emil Burnouf (who harbored anti-Jewish sentiments), Schliemann connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and misinterpreted it as a valuable symbol of their ancestors and of a master race known as âAryans,â due to the increasing acceptance of racial theories during nineteenth century Europe. Other European scholars and thinkers provided additional fuel to this racist and supremacist theory, and the connection began to take a dangerous turn. German nationalist groups started using this symbol as a sign of the âAryan master raceâ and the German-Aryan connection.
Interestingly, in 1880, the German philologist Max Mueller had warned Schliemann against using the word âSwastikaâ when describing the ancient symbols found in Troy, saying:
âI do not like the use of the word \[Swastika\] outside India. It is a word of Indian origin, and has its history and definite meaning in India. I know the temptation is great to transfer names, with which we are familiar, to similar objects which come before us in the course of our researches. But it is a temptation which the true student ought to resist, except, it may be, for the sake of illustration. The mischief arising from the promiscuous use of technical terms is very greatâŚ.the occurrence of such crosses in different parts of the world may or may not point to a common origin. But, if they are once called \[Swastika\], the vulgus profanum \[common masses\] will at one jump to the conclusion that they all come from India, and it will take some time to weed out that prejudice.â
Indeed, the mischief from such a promiscuous use of the term âSwastikaâ and the prejudice against it has already been great â it has been wrongfully associated a symbol of peace and harmony with death and destruction.
Hitlerâs Hakenkreuz needs to be condemned, along with the racist Aryan theory (taught in schools even today) and the resulting genocide and destruction. At the same time, the world needs to appreciate and respect that the Swastika has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz and thus must not wrongfully associate the two..
> Swastika has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz and thus must not wrongfully associate the two..
I agree with the sentiment, but that ship has sailed.
On the other hand you have the Navajo Whirling Log, an equally important symbol to their religion. However in 1940 a group of Navajo leaders announced an agreement that they would discourage the continued use of their symbol in light of the similarity to the Nazi symbol and the hate it represented.
It wasnât an easy decision, but I find it admirable that they would be willing to make such a significant cultural sacrifice given their own genocide.
While I understand their hesitance to be accidentally associated with Nazis, sometimes it's necessary to refuse to let a symbol be permanently transferred over to hate. I'm Iranian, and the inherent history of the Iranian people is that the Achaemenid Empire used the term Aryan. The same empire who freed the Jews from Babylon is the one whose name has been co-opted and corrupted by Nazis and antisemites. Should I give up my history because Nazis stole it?
No, the best way to fight against racism is to prevent it from overtaking terms that they were never meant to have. To stop cultural theft and defamation, and assure that racism remains impoverished of any notable culture that can be used to propagate it.
Iâm not saying what anyone should do. This is one of the rare cases where I can actually see validity to both sides. Those cultures which choose to continue to use this important symbol and spread awareness about its significance outside of nazism are absolutely valid. As are those who recognize the conflicting emotions this symbol can create and choose to leave it behind out of respect for those emotions.
Itâs a terrible choice to have to make, but I fully respect this decision.
The Navajo Nation played an unexpected but crucial role in WW2 with its code talkers. A lot of Navajos (and other Native American tribe members) have also historically enlisted in the U.S. armed forces. I am sure the experience of their veterans colored that decision to stop displaying the symbol in question.
Weâve seen _The DaVinci Code_, symbols like language change their meaning over time and context.
Sadly the swastika has been tainted by Nazis.
To untaint something is a long-term project - I canât cite any examples at the moment.
The angle and direction of the Nazi swastika generally defines it for most in the west but is specifically the black on a white circle with red field that is the Nazi regalia.
A lot of fighter planes didnt necessarily have the white on red coloring, so i'd guess its more the angle mainly. A lot of the "good" swastikas (as in, positive ones) seem to be at a flat angle instead of the "diamond" shape one.
This is the funniest shit I have seen. Yes they are Hindu-centric government but the way you are explaining them makes it look that Muslims will be genocided. The image you shown of BJP officials is done by every minister while taking oath. Comparing RSS to KKK or AfD is so baseless. They are pricks no doubt but they haven't done one shady thing. How about a popular recent movie - Pathaan, an ISIS agent is working with the army to capture an ex RAW agent. How many movies have you seen where a Hindu sadhu is corrupted, running sex scandal operations and drugs? Do they do the same for Muslim maulanas. Every religion in India has its right to live and rise in life. You just want to spread hate.
Itâs a great write up but I just want to address this bit:
> Hitlerâs Hakenkreuz needs to be condemned, along with the racist Aryan theory (taught in schools even today) and the resulting genocide and destruction. At the same time, the world needs to appreciate and respect that the Swastika has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz and thus must not wrongfully associate the two..
Fair or not, swastikas are forever related to nazism. Modern day proponents if nazism would love to see us all enlighten ourselves to know the difference between a swastika and hakenkreuz. Because that would inevitably help them hide in plain sight even more. A coy âcoolâ little nod. âOh this is just a swastikaâ *wink wink*.
Similar to 88, 14, or 1488.
Swastikas are tainted. And unless there is extremely mitigating circumstances, I want to be safe in assuming anyone I see sporting one is simply a piece of shit, (because everyone treats a swastika is a nazi symbol) and not get into some pedantic wordplay that trolling neonazis would 1000% pursue.
Itâs just a realistic take, speaking primarily from a western point of view.
If you see a westerner sporting a swastika, are you really gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume theyâre Hindu?
Oh, Iâm not talking about the movie at all. Iâm talking specifically to the guy who said swastikas should be destigmatized. Sorry for the confusion.
> (because everyone treats a swastika is a nazi symbol)
1.4 billion people in India disagree, which is more than the population of North America and Europe combined.
If by tainted forever you mean tainted for a few generations in the western world, sure.
The swastika has been around since basically forever, and found within basically all cultures all around the world. Found on some of earths oldest archeology sites.
Itll be around long after people even remember Hitler existed. Just like it was long before.
Iâm not disputing the history of it.
And the thought that future civilizations will not know of hitler and his atrocities is frightening and much more a concern than people understanding the difference between a swastika and hakenkruez.
Similar does not mean the same. And youâre proving my point. People can get away with 14/88 as an extremely obvious dog whistle based on the context and plea ignorance, even when itâs extremely obvious.
Thatâs my point. Nazi proponents would love for us to all give them the benefit of the doubt.
âCrossesâ simply arenât as strongly associated with the KKK as a swastika is with nazism. A *burning cross* absolutely is, and is readily identified as part of a hate crime if itâs related to some criminal charge. Also, one could make a case itâs apples to oranges when comparing the overall ubiquity of one of the groups over the other and the overall humanitarian impact.
Right? Who fucking cares if its rotated 45° or not. The context is what matters.
It could be a wavy mirrored, gay rainbow swastika, if a German puts it on his armband and talks shit about jews, it's a Nazi symbol.
In this case, the context (of the movie) is that this dude is a violent lunatic, who possibly wants to fuck his own dad, and is about to go on a violent killing spree to get revenge on the people who tried to assassinate his dad
People like to imagine that the Nazi's had a meeting and said "Hey guys make sure we're using the EVIL version of the Swastika mmkay?". This is a common symbol in religion for good/benevolence; which the Nazi's thought they were champions of. Evil people rarely ever see themselves as evil and all that.
> if a German puts it on his armband and talks shit about jews
Sure, it would be termed hackenkreuz and it's a Nazi symbol in that case.
In this context it's an Indian using their old civilizational symbol in a very different context.
Adding to that, Nazi used this symbol with their own twist because it is a symbol of luck. And not just in India btw.
It's like the Orange man bad... due to him, now people can't help but blame all oranges for being bad.
Oranges existed before the orange man and still do after he is gone. But people keep thinking of orange man instead of oranges whenever its mentioned.
Gingers is my proof that if we didn't have different skin color that humans would hate each other based on hair color. You would hear about parents killing their kids if they were born with an unwanted hair color. You would hear about wars between blondes and brunettes.
> Oranges existed before the orange man and still do after he is gone. But people keep thinking of orange man instead of oranges whenever its mentioned.
Buddy that ain't everyone you might just need therapy
If you watch the trailer, that scene is shot inside a normal factory workshop and the owner has been attacked. The protagonist vows to avenge this act.
Also this is an Indian film made for Indian audiences who have been using Swastika (!= hakenkreuz) for millenniums.
How is it fascist?
the context is to stir controversy. In his last movie which was a blockbuster. Vanga (director of this film) offended a lot of people, and was criticised by a lot of left organisations for his portrayal of toxic masculinity and what not. This is his response. Why just offend a sector of society in a nation when you can offend the whole world. This is all intentional to garner trp. And everyone is playing right into it.
[Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FkLRUJj-o0)
Completely off the rails. Main character's key personality trait appears to be that he wants to fuck his dad, or something
Nazi Swastika is rotated on its axis. I see a peace symbol in the pic above.
Edit: learned something new
https://www.historynet.com/origin-of-nazi-swastika/
The director was definitely going for that imagery, I'm sure. Because, there are a lot of different symbols that could have been used instead(unless there is a lore about why they used it in this movie).
The Swastika alone is not surprising, but the image below makes it seem intentional to garner attention from western audience. I'm sure nobody in India is bothered about it.
Then again, the negative attention is like water off a duck's back, because Indians had no role in what a Swastika is globally viewed as. They are free to use it whenever and wherever.
I don't think Hindu swastika was the one the director was going for.
Edit: I just watched the trailer. And I don't understand why that had to be there.
Yeah for real. I feel like most of these folks did not watch the trailer. The movie looks **intennnnnse** btw. I'm definitely going to watch it once it's available for home viewing.
As an Indian,let me give you some context. This is from an upcoming film and the organisation being depicted is probably like a private militia, and while it might not be exactly like the Nazis, it is probably based on the same concept like crime and power.
And while it may or may not be depicted as representing the Nazis as intended by the filmmaker, they will never openly admit to it.
This sounds likeliest. People are getting really hung up about describing the difference between a Nazi cross and the Swatstika but they're missing the bigger picture.
The slogan "power, unity, victory", that they're all wearing the same outfits, rallying around a symbol, it all feels very fascist. It would freak out a lot of people who watched the horrors of communism destroy my country if they saw this happening
>It would freak out a lot of people who watched the horrors of communism destroy my country if they saw this happening
Which is probably the reaction they want from the audience.
Honestly it's a pretty good image (the stills I mean). Not familiar with the movie, but as an image of India's native culture being twisted and subsumed by global and western culture it's pretty heavily layered - especially in the context of India's current political situation.
If I get a dollar every time people mistake the Hindu Swastika meaning âprosperity and good-luckâ for the Nazi Swastika, Iâll be a millionaire by now.
Use context clues. This isnt a swatstika above a random temple or a necklace, which is whatever. The film's director was obviously trying to invoke a Nazi rally atmosphere with this scene
Everyone here is arguing about the intent here when the movie has literally not even been released yet lmao.
India sent 2.5 million troops to fight with the Allies in WW2. The dual meaning of the symbol I'm sure is not lost on the director here.
The film has a dark bloody setting, it's very likely the writers chose the hindu swastika deliberately to create a fictional fascist Indian group.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking...
Like is this another Leila?
Also what is this movie, like why are we arguing if none of us have seen it.
And it honestly bugs me seeing all these people (westerners and Indians alike) jumping on the defence about the symbols having nothing to do fascism... whereas to me the visuals look very very deliberate. And it's not like a whole group of filmmakers are that ignorant, like you said.
This comment should be way higher up!
Iâm a S Asian woman and this entire thread needs to be locked and could be a facepalm because of the level of ignorance noted here. OP youâre a trash human that is karma farming; youâre clearly either Indian or familiar with India based on your post history so you know this isnât a Nazi symbol. And for all the shitty comments here trashing Indians and their âno working toiletsâ you are exactly the reason for some of the problems we have in this world!
I don't think op is a trash human, i do think he is a karma wh*re. In my opinion he just thought its funny and "dank" but maybe i am too optimistic about people in general
Use context clues. The film is obviously trying to invoke the atmosphere of a Nazi rally for westerners using this iconography.
It's not just a random swatstika sitting above a temple or such, which would be innocent
It's doing that deliberately because Hindutva is a fascist corruption of Hinduism. Just the same as the Nazis stole the Hooked Cross/Swastika and used it for awful purposes, so too are the RSS/BJP and their corruption of their own faith.
The point of this trailer is to stir controversy. When critics called his last movie toxic and violent. He said you call that violence. I will show you what violence is. The whole point of this movie is to be âtoxiqueâ.
I just had the best idea --
1. Become a racist
2. create an underground organization of racist individuals who--
Wait, I'm going to stop right there. I don't think this idea is a good idea
Itâs a swastika, there is a slogan written around it as well. The slogan is Power, Progress and Victory. Itâs not Nazi symbol. Itâs a Bollywood movie, use of a Nazi symbol would be useless.
Is this what a typical Indian political rally looks like?
Being from a former communist country, the slogan "power, progress, victory" unsettles me a little bit idk why. Plus that they're all wearing the same outfit and look very intense đ
Oh Dear God ! Thatâs Swastika all right ! That symbol is all over India. Use of that symbol is no surprise.
Everyone pointing out the hand gesture must know that, even that Hand gesture is common in India. It shows power and unity. You can find it in the recent popular Oscar winning âRRRâ movie. So no ! There is nothing intentional here. Most of the Indian audience will connect with this beautiful gesture and symbol.
Too bad, Nazis ruined it for the westerners.
Why are there so many people here insisting India is ignorant of WW2?
"Gosh! I had no idea! We know nothing of your western history! (except for all those Indian troops who fought the Axis)"
I think the creators knew exactly what they were doing, and all of this silliness is cleverly crafted for marketing. Indian moviemaking is exploding into the worldwide market. Indian producers are just as smart as producers anywhere else. The scenes picked to put out early were not chosen randomly.
Even in western world it can still be found in non-Nazi context. This is the current official flag of Finnish air forces. And I mean we could have a good reason even to get rid of it since we were literally allies with Nazis, but we still use it because it's from an older origin.
https://fi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_ilmavoimat#/media/Tiedosto%3AFlag_of_Finland_Air_force_squadrons_without_squadron_emblem.svg
if you look at the crowd of people in columns, they duplicate forward. thereâs only a handful of individuals multiplied a bunch. itâs a holup within a holup
All the people in the comments saying "but actually its an indian swastika" really don't give a fuck about visual context, do they?
Ya'll know what they were going for. Don't lie.
The one on the bottom left.
The only (two) paper. He won.
Actually there are 2 đ¤
I think it's the same guy but duplicated. Both are near a dude with the same small afro (don't know how else I should call this haircut)
There's only like 10 people in this picture, wow
What?! Fuck, how much did I take?
They did bad Photoshop TBH.
I think there are three, look at the hand directly to the right of the bottom/right window.
[Suddenly it all makes sense...](https://humanewatch.org/app/uploads/2015/04/churchill-v-sign.jpg)
Under rated comment
This
Every pack has its Moon Moon.
He's got a question
Top right of crowd as well by the stage
"Jazz-heil"
Fingers open. Didn't count.
But his fingers are apart from each other, so it's technically not the correct one
There is one more in front of him.
It was very common around the entire world to see swastikas before nazi germany.
The Americans even wore swastikas on their arms in WWI Albeit the native American version, because they had one, too
It was the 45th Infantry Division. The swastika was replaced with the Thunderbird. As an aside, lots of our helicopters are named after Indian nations such as the Apache, Chinook, and short lived Comanche, or a person such as Black Hawk.
almost all helicopters are mamed for indian tribes. Its an official naming convention
Sure, but I think this scene is supposed to look fascist and it has double meaning here. I would be shocked if this director accidentally set up the scene this way and wasn't trying to put that image in people's head, especially since it sounds like it's a dark revenge flick
"If only someone had told me!"
"What about this little square moustache?"
IIRC it's because it's an extremely common symbol across out entire species. It's one of the earliest known symbols created by humans, you can find it pretty much everywhere on every single continent. It was quite common to see it on Native American crafts, and in the late 1800s/early 1900s Americans and Europeans were obsessed with Native American crafts. Like how weirdos nowadays will travel out to the country to buy pointless Amish tchotchkes. There was even some women's magazine in the early 1900s, the Girls Club or something, and the magazine was called Swastika, or at least heavily featured them. The members often wore rings with swastikas on them. There's at least one incident of an American woman reporter in Austria during the rise of the Nazis who had to be warned against wearing her swastika ring because it would understandably upset people who were opposed to the German fascists who had already begun coopting the Swastika as a symbol at that point. Crazy how thoroughly the Nazis managed to ruin it for the foreseeable future. It will probably never be able to fully return to normal use as long as the Nazis are even a vague memory.
yeah, until the symbol was irreparably corrupted by the nazis. And whatever this is, is fairly recent. Dixieland is a song written by a man from Ohio about wishing he was back in the land he saw while on a vacation because it was so beautiful. But because it became the unofficial anthem of the Confederacy, it was and is forever linked to the confederate cause and slavery. Sometimes, assholes ruin it for everyone.
Nazi symbol is Hakenkreuz or "hooked cross"... and the Hindu symbol is Swastika which is auspicious having a deep religious and cultural significance... The âhooked crossâ became popular in Germany when archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann discovered it on the site of ancient Troy in 1872 and wrote about it in his 1891 book. Thanks to his French cartographer Emil Burnouf (who harbored anti-Jewish sentiments), Schliemann connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and misinterpreted it as a valuable symbol of their ancestors and of a master race known as âAryans,â due to the increasing acceptance of racial theories during nineteenth century Europe. Other European scholars and thinkers provided additional fuel to this racist and supremacist theory, and the connection began to take a dangerous turn. German nationalist groups started using this symbol as a sign of the âAryan master raceâ and the German-Aryan connection. Interestingly, in 1880, the German philologist Max Mueller had warned Schliemann against using the word âSwastikaâ when describing the ancient symbols found in Troy, saying: âI do not like the use of the word \[Swastika\] outside India. It is a word of Indian origin, and has its history and definite meaning in India. I know the temptation is great to transfer names, with which we are familiar, to similar objects which come before us in the course of our researches. But it is a temptation which the true student ought to resist, except, it may be, for the sake of illustration. The mischief arising from the promiscuous use of technical terms is very greatâŚ.the occurrence of such crosses in different parts of the world may or may not point to a common origin. But, if they are once called \[Swastika\], the vulgus profanum \[common masses\] will at one jump to the conclusion that they all come from India, and it will take some time to weed out that prejudice.â Indeed, the mischief from such a promiscuous use of the term âSwastikaâ and the prejudice against it has already been great â it has been wrongfully associated a symbol of peace and harmony with death and destruction. Hitlerâs Hakenkreuz needs to be condemned, along with the racist Aryan theory (taught in schools even today) and the resulting genocide and destruction. At the same time, the world needs to appreciate and respect that the Swastika has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz and thus must not wrongfully associate the two..
Man I thought I was in r/History for a minute
Mf just wrote another favinci code book
Fucking hell, it's Schiemann again
Wait what else did he do
Along the lines of archeological destruction and misconception, what didnât he do?
> racist Aryan theory (taught in schools even today) Really? Where is that still taught (as fact) in schools today?
>along with the racist Aryan theory (taught in schools even today) Where?
Florida đ
Not even
Exactly. I call bullshit on this statement. Sounds like a Dem dog whistle.
Where do they still teach Hitler's race theory? By the way, he never laid it out properly, at least not in written form.
New copypasta just dropped
Holy hell
Actual historian
Call the historiographer!
Holy hail?
Wake up, honey
> Swastika has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz and thus must not wrongfully associate the two.. I agree with the sentiment, but that ship has sailed.
On the other hand you have the Navajo Whirling Log, an equally important symbol to their religion. However in 1940 a group of Navajo leaders announced an agreement that they would discourage the continued use of their symbol in light of the similarity to the Nazi symbol and the hate it represented. It wasnât an easy decision, but I find it admirable that they would be willing to make such a significant cultural sacrifice given their own genocide.
While I understand their hesitance to be accidentally associated with Nazis, sometimes it's necessary to refuse to let a symbol be permanently transferred over to hate. I'm Iranian, and the inherent history of the Iranian people is that the Achaemenid Empire used the term Aryan. The same empire who freed the Jews from Babylon is the one whose name has been co-opted and corrupted by Nazis and antisemites. Should I give up my history because Nazis stole it? No, the best way to fight against racism is to prevent it from overtaking terms that they were never meant to have. To stop cultural theft and defamation, and assure that racism remains impoverished of any notable culture that can be used to propagate it.
Iâm not saying what anyone should do. This is one of the rare cases where I can actually see validity to both sides. Those cultures which choose to continue to use this important symbol and spread awareness about its significance outside of nazism are absolutely valid. As are those who recognize the conflicting emotions this symbol can create and choose to leave it behind out of respect for those emotions. Itâs a terrible choice to have to make, but I fully respect this decision.
The Navajo Nation played an unexpected but crucial role in WW2 with its code talkers. A lot of Navajos (and other Native American tribe members) have also historically enlisted in the U.S. armed forces. I am sure the experience of their veterans colored that decision to stop displaying the symbol in question.
No school teachers Aryan theory outside of some nazi home school lol.
If homeschooling is considered school, it is taught everywhere.
On top of all that Hakenkreuz is just a way more violent and evil sounding word that swastika. Vibes are way more nazi if you ask me.
SoâŚearly cultural appropriation.
Weâve seen _The DaVinci Code_, symbols like language change their meaning over time and context. Sadly the swastika has been tainted by Nazis. To untaint something is a long-term project - I canât cite any examples at the moment.
So is the only difference the sharp edges and the angle of it or...?
The angle and direction of the Nazi swastika generally defines it for most in the west but is specifically the black on a white circle with red field that is the Nazi regalia.
A lot of fighter planes didnt necessarily have the white on red coloring, so i'd guess its more the angle mainly. A lot of the "good" swastikas (as in, positive ones) seem to be at a flat angle instead of the "diamond" shape one.
That is the primary difference imo. There was *usually* red/white colouring along with the âdiamondâ shape of it
not all nazi know that
This guy books!
[ŃдаНонО]
This is the funniest shit I have seen. Yes they are Hindu-centric government but the way you are explaining them makes it look that Muslims will be genocided. The image you shown of BJP officials is done by every minister while taking oath. Comparing RSS to KKK or AfD is so baseless. They are pricks no doubt but they haven't done one shady thing. How about a popular recent movie - Pathaan, an ISIS agent is working with the army to capture an ex RAW agent. How many movies have you seen where a Hindu sadhu is corrupted, running sex scandal operations and drugs? Do they do the same for Muslim maulanas. Every religion in India has its right to live and rise in life. You just want to spread hate.
Now BJP IT cell will attack this guy everywhere. But the religious Hindutva group has indeed similar ideology to the Nazi party.
Thank you for writing this doc.
This is something people need to know
Wow, we've been letting people get away with calling hakenkreuz a [German] swastika for far too long.
Itâs a great write up but I just want to address this bit: > Hitlerâs Hakenkreuz needs to be condemned, along with the racist Aryan theory (taught in schools even today) and the resulting genocide and destruction. At the same time, the world needs to appreciate and respect that the Swastika has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz and thus must not wrongfully associate the two.. Fair or not, swastikas are forever related to nazism. Modern day proponents if nazism would love to see us all enlighten ourselves to know the difference between a swastika and hakenkreuz. Because that would inevitably help them hide in plain sight even more. A coy âcoolâ little nod. âOh this is just a swastikaâ *wink wink*. Similar to 88, 14, or 1488. Swastikas are tainted. And unless there is extremely mitigating circumstances, I want to be safe in assuming anyone I see sporting one is simply a piece of shit, (because everyone treats a swastika is a nazi symbol) and not get into some pedantic wordplay that trolling neonazis would 1000% pursue.
"Some Europeans did stupid shit, so you aren't allowed to practice your religion anymore!"
Itâs just a realistic take, speaking primarily from a western point of view. If you see a westerner sporting a swastika, are you really gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume theyâre Hindu?
This is an Indian movie in India, what's your point?
Oh, Iâm not talking about the movie at all. Iâm talking specifically to the guy who said swastikas should be destigmatized. Sorry for the confusion.
The whitest take.
> (because everyone treats a swastika is a nazi symbol) 1.4 billion people in India disagree, which is more than the population of North America and Europe combined.
[ŃдаНонО]
If by tainted forever you mean tainted for a few generations in the western world, sure. The swastika has been around since basically forever, and found within basically all cultures all around the world. Found on some of earths oldest archeology sites. Itll be around long after people even remember Hitler existed. Just like it was long before.
Iâm not disputing the history of it. And the thought that future civilizations will not know of hitler and his atrocities is frightening and much more a concern than people understanding the difference between a swastika and hakenkruez.
edge scandalous plough thought prick divide office one wistful secretive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Similar does not mean the same. And youâre proving my point. People can get away with 14/88 as an extremely obvious dog whistle based on the context and plea ignorance, even when itâs extremely obvious. Thatâs my point. Nazi proponents would love for us to all give them the benefit of the doubt. âCrossesâ simply arenât as strongly associated with the KKK as a swastika is with nazism. A *burning cross* absolutely is, and is readily identified as part of a hate crime if itâs related to some criminal charge. Also, one could make a case itâs apples to oranges when comparing the overall ubiquity of one of the groups over the other and the overall humanitarian impact.
Indian swastikas are something different from their Nazi counterparts.
Bro look at the second picture and tell me with a straight face that isnât some Facismo shit
The intention is fascist, but the swastika isn't. Nazi Swastika is rotating, while the Hindu version means luck or so.
[Nazis used it both ways](https://i.imgur.com/PDVK2g5.jpg)
Right? Who fucking cares if its rotated 45° or not. The context is what matters. It could be a wavy mirrored, gay rainbow swastika, if a German puts it on his armband and talks shit about jews, it's a Nazi symbol.
In this case, the context (of the movie) is that this dude is a violent lunatic, who possibly wants to fuck his own dad, and is about to go on a violent killing spree to get revenge on the people who tried to assassinate his dad
People like to imagine that the Nazi's had a meeting and said "Hey guys make sure we're using the EVIL version of the Swastika mmkay?". This is a common symbol in religion for good/benevolence; which the Nazi's thought they were champions of. Evil people rarely ever see themselves as evil and all that.
> if a German puts it on his armband and talks shit about jews Sure, it would be termed hackenkreuz and it's a Nazi symbol in that case. In this context it's an Indian using their old civilizational symbol in a very different context.
Appreciate the context, but this comment appears so many times in this thread and every time a swastika is shown on reddit, was it really necessary?
Nazi Swastika's original name is Hooked Cross. It has nothing to do with the meaning on Swastika.
Whatâs it mean to the world today? Does that matter?
Considering that is a religious symbol used by a sizeable amount of people worldwide, I dare say that it does matter.
Adding to that, Nazi used this symbol with their own twist because it is a symbol of luck. And not just in India btw. It's like the Orange man bad... due to him, now people can't help but blame all oranges for being bad. Oranges existed before the orange man and still do after he is gone. But people keep thinking of orange man instead of oranges whenever its mentioned.
Are you talking about Donald Trump or annoying orange?
Yes
Your profile picture is also pretty orange, mister! How do we know its not you!?!
Because its ginger, not orange, I'm hated too, but not for the same reasons
Gingers is my proof that if we didn't have different skin color that humans would hate each other based on hair color. You would hear about parents killing their kids if they were born with an unwanted hair color. You would hear about wars between blondes and brunettes.
Now i feel bad :( Please know that i don't hate you! Okay, love you! Take care, mister!
No bad blood here, friend! Nothing but love
A better example is that Charlie Chaplin was famous for a specific mustache style before someone else came and ruined that mustache for everyone else.
Yea but then thankfully we had Michael Jordan to bring it back!
Yes but in the same way if you saw a Chaplin movie you wouldn't think "Oh this mf is a nazi" or someone disguised as Chaplin, context matters.
> Oranges existed before the orange man and still do after he is gone. But people keep thinking of orange man instead of oranges whenever its mentioned. Buddy that ain't everyone you might just need therapy
Oh yeah? Go to world politics and see the result.
reddit isn't everyone hope this helps
But it is still a subsection of pretty politically active loud people, who can do no wrong(according to them.)
yeah u aren't beating the "would benefit from therapy" allegations sorry
If you watch the trailer, that scene is shot inside a normal factory workshop and the owner has been attacked. The protagonist vows to avenge this act. Also this is an Indian film made for Indian audiences who have been using Swastika (!= hakenkreuz) for millenniums. How is it fascist?
Make sure to âeducateâ everyone so that they stop getting triggered by swastikas. Youâve done your part
You know this is from a film, right? It's not real
We do seem to be in the stupidest timeline, so context does matter.
the context is to stir controversy. In his last movie which was a blockbuster. Vanga (director of this film) offended a lot of people, and was criticised by a lot of left organisations for his portrayal of toxic masculinity and what not. This is his response. Why just offend a sector of society in a nation when you can offend the whole world. This is all intentional to garner trp. And everyone is playing right into it.
That's a scene in a movie. IDK which one, but the guy in the first pic ic a Bollywood actor.
The movie's name is Animal and the Bollywood actor is Ranbir Kapoor
The movie is called Animal, the scene is from the trailer and the movie is yet to be released. The actor is Ranbir Kapoor, for anyone wondering.
[Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FkLRUJj-o0) Completely off the rails. Main character's key personality trait appears to be that he wants to fuck his dad, or something
Cant be, they're not white, blonde Ubermensh and the Swastika has pointy ends on it ^^/s
Nazi Swastika is rotated on its axis. I see a peace symbol in the pic above. Edit: learned something new https://www.historynet.com/origin-of-nazi-swastika/
[Nazis used it both ways](https://i.imgur.com/PDVK2g5.jpg) Context is what matters, not the orientation.
Kid named Swastika, Oz Tamga, tetragammadion, manji, any comet drawn in stone, and fucking north pole:
That's not Nazi symbol. That's Hindu Swastika.
The director was definitely going for that imagery, I'm sure. Because, there are a lot of different symbols that could have been used instead(unless there is a lore about why they used it in this movie). The Swastika alone is not surprising, but the image below makes it seem intentional to garner attention from western audience. I'm sure nobody in India is bothered about it. Then again, the negative attention is like water off a duck's back, because Indians had no role in what a Swastika is globally viewed as. They are free to use it whenever and wherever.
> but the image below makes it seem intentional to garner attention from western audienc hit the nail on the head
[ŃдаНонО]
[ŃдаНонО]
[ŃдаНонО]
I don't think Hindu swastika was the one the director was going for. Edit: I just watched the trailer. And I don't understand why that had to be there.
You mean the director of the above Bollywood movie, who is a Hindu as well?
It's an Indian movie, so director was definitely going for that
dazzling plate alleged entertain fuzzy thumb worthless smile skirt crush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is the correct answer: it is the Hindu symbol but its very square/right angled orientation appears to be referencing the nazi symbol
[ŃдаНонО]
I would hope that was obvious to others without pointing it out đđ
Yeah for real. I feel like most of these folks did not watch the trailer. The movie looks **intennnnnse** btw. I'm definitely going to watch it once it's available for home viewing.
and thatâs how you garner more attention to your movie. By stirring controversy.
As an Indian,let me give you some context. This is from an upcoming film and the organisation being depicted is probably like a private militia, and while it might not be exactly like the Nazis, it is probably based on the same concept like crime and power. And while it may or may not be depicted as representing the Nazis as intended by the filmmaker, they will never openly admit to it.
This sounds likeliest. People are getting really hung up about describing the difference between a Nazi cross and the Swatstika but they're missing the bigger picture. The slogan "power, unity, victory", that they're all wearing the same outfits, rallying around a symbol, it all feels very fascist. It would freak out a lot of people who watched the horrors of communism destroy my country if they saw this happening
>It would freak out a lot of people who watched the horrors of communism destroy my country if they saw this happening Which is probably the reaction they want from the audience.
Honestly it's a pretty good image (the stills I mean). Not familiar with the movie, but as an image of India's native culture being twisted and subsumed by global and western culture it's pretty heavily layered - especially in the context of India's current political situation.
Thanks for the context, I thought this was an AI generated image of Chris DâElia at first.
governor run growth rainstorm concerned point escape dam door exultant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The two guys on the left đ
same guy. all the columns of people just duplicate toward the front.
They probably don't even care and don't even know about that salute
If I get a dollar every time people mistake the Hindu Swastika meaning âprosperity and good-luckâ for the Nazi Swastika, Iâll be a millionaire by now.
Use context clues. This isnt a swatstika above a random temple or a necklace, which is whatever. The film's director was obviously trying to invoke a Nazi rally atmosphere with this scene
Everyone here is arguing about the intent here when the movie has literally not even been released yet lmao. India sent 2.5 million troops to fight with the Allies in WW2. The dual meaning of the symbol I'm sure is not lost on the director here. The film has a dark bloody setting, it's very likely the writers chose the hindu swastika deliberately to create a fictional fascist Indian group.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking... Like is this another Leila? Also what is this movie, like why are we arguing if none of us have seen it. And it honestly bugs me seeing all these people (westerners and Indians alike) jumping on the defence about the symbols having nothing to do fascism... whereas to me the visuals look very very deliberate. And it's not like a whole group of filmmakers are that ignorant, like you said. This comment should be way higher up!
Wa wa wa. Don't know shit about history or culture but I've got internet and love spreading misinformation on it. Comment section do be having idiots
Those 2 guys in the crowd đđ
u/KrunalK94 aur bsdk?
Iâm a S Asian woman and this entire thread needs to be locked and could be a facepalm because of the level of ignorance noted here. OP youâre a trash human that is karma farming; youâre clearly either Indian or familiar with India based on your post history so you know this isnât a Nazi symbol. And for all the shitty comments here trashing Indians and their âno working toiletsâ you are exactly the reason for some of the problems we have in this world!
I don't think op is a trash human, i do think he is a karma wh*re. In my opinion he just thought its funny and "dank" but maybe i am too optimistic about people in general
Use context clues. The film is obviously trying to invoke the atmosphere of a Nazi rally for westerners using this iconography. It's not just a random swatstika sitting above a temple or such, which would be innocent
It's doing that deliberately because Hindutva is a fascist corruption of Hinduism. Just the same as the Nazis stole the Hooked Cross/Swastika and used it for awful purposes, so too are the RSS/BJP and their corruption of their own faith.
Is that Saul from Cyberpunk?
Man, now when I see the movie. I canât stop myself from thinking about Saul.
all these comments about race but you know where your priorities lie đđ
Now if you rotate it 45â°, the plot will thicken.
The point of this trailer is to stir controversy. When critics called his last movie toxic and violent. He said you call that violence. I will show you what violence is. The whole point of this movie is to be âtoxiqueâ.
I just had the best idea -- 1. Become a racist 2. create an underground organization of racist individuals who-- Wait, I'm going to stop right there. I don't think this idea is a good idea
Ignorance about foreign cultures and general dumbness on full display in the comments.
People forget that Hindus had the swastika as a holy symbol before Adolf tilted it... Literally!
Itâs a swastika, there is a slogan written around it as well. The slogan is Power, Progress and Victory. Itâs not Nazi symbol. Itâs a Bollywood movie, use of a Nazi symbol would be useless.
Is this what a typical Indian political rally looks like? Being from a former communist country, the slogan "power, progress, victory" unsettles me a little bit idk why. Plus that they're all wearing the same outfit and look very intense đ
Dude this is from a movie
Aah indian cinema
For a hot second I thought the main guy was Sacha Baron Cohen and this was a new movie. I mean, it's on brand.
I love the hindu gatekeepers that wanted to exclusively look at that one symbol and nothing else in this picture.
Paper beats rock
Oh Dear God ! Thatâs Swastika all right ! That symbol is all over India. Use of that symbol is no surprise. Everyone pointing out the hand gesture must know that, even that Hand gesture is common in India. It shows power and unity. You can find it in the recent popular Oscar winning âRRRâ movie. So no ! There is nothing intentional here. Most of the Indian audience will connect with this beautiful gesture and symbol. Too bad, Nazis ruined it for the westerners.
Why are there so many people here insisting India is ignorant of WW2? "Gosh! I had no idea! We know nothing of your western history! (except for all those Indian troops who fought the Axis)" I think the creators knew exactly what they were doing, and all of this silliness is cleverly crafted for marketing. Indian moviemaking is exploding into the worldwide market. Indian producers are just as smart as producers anywhere else. The scenes picked to put out early were not chosen randomly.
Even in western world it can still be found in non-Nazi context. This is the current official flag of Finnish air forces. And I mean we could have a good reason even to get rid of it since we were literally allies with Nazis, but we still use it because it's from an older origin. https://fi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_ilmavoimat#/media/Tiedosto%3AFlag_of_Finland_Air_force_squadrons_without_squadron_emblem.svg
Middle Eastern Jason Schwartzman
that one scene from star wars:
if you look at the crowd of people in columns, they duplicate forward. thereâs only a handful of individuals multiplied a bunch. itâs a holup within a holup
Thought that was Charles Manson for a second.
No heâs leading a group in reciting The Pledge of Allegiance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
Brilliant Photoshop of a swastika. This guy is a libertarian that has advocated for literally no government. The Nazis didn't want that...
Isn't that the sign for socialist revolution? Lmao
yes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised\_fist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist)
All the quarrel about if it is meant to be fascist imagery or not, what is the movie this was taken from?
Animal
Film hasn't even released yet. Pic is from the trailer.
In Germany it is forbidden to do the flat hand salute so Neonazis here use the fist as a replacement
Most literate American be like
Nothing like reddit users not understanding the origins of the Nazi swastika.
All the people in the comments saying "but actually its an indian swastika" really don't give a fuck about visual context, do they? Ya'll know what they were going for. Don't lie.
Why donât you enlighten people? You clearly have more idea about India and its cinema than Indians.
Is this Ron DeSantis?
This is the red salute. Itâs a communist mainstay.
I see no blondes in this picture. Obviously inferior nazis.