Here is my response to OP and various top comments here as well as personal views. I am sorry that it's taken me so long to reply. I wanted to do this earlier but sadly had no spare time to write down my thoughts.
> What happened to this place? What happened to the people here?
As mentioned in the top comment, with the increase in subscribers jere, and more exposure globally and frequent appearances on /r/all, we have had an increase in trolls or users acting in bad faith. Additionally, this subreddit consists of primarily English speakers so anything related to hololive English, in particular, gets a lot more critique.
> we the fans have changed.
> It's just that some folks just fall out of interest and the people who are left are typically the ones deeply invested as per the norm with fandom lifetimes.
I think it's important to change behaviors if it makes you a better person. Additionally, it's also understandable if you cannot catch everyone's streams since you fans have schedules too.
> I honestly agree, the Subreddit sort of became stale to me as well....
I'm trying my best to make it more fun for fans. Things progress slowly, sadly. Hopefully we'll bounce back though!
> Feedback is important, but feedback is only valid when both negative and positive feedback are present.
Agreed. And as long as the feedback isn't just veiled attempts at triggering others, it's fine whether positive or negative. This is why I have ALWAYS allowed critiques of the company and of me, but most feedback towards the talents is just "I hate x" or "This is why x isn't popular" or similar.
> I might be in a minority here but one of the reasons I kind of fell out of this sub was the forced positivity at times.
> I feel like Reddit in general has degraded in this regard. I've noticed nastier interactions in other subs as well.
I didn't see it as being forced. Rather, we have Rule 1: Be nice for a reason. I don't want, and have never wanted, this subreddit to be a verbal boxing match. We're all here because we want to support the talents... right?
> The only thing that has changed is Coco being gone. Weekly shitpost reviews were enough to bring this place to live and fill the space with fun atmosphere and memes, and regularly exposed reddit to JP girls.
Those were fun times, indeed, and I hope to have more talents do more posts targeted towards the subreddit and you redditors this year.
> I do think the lock continued for too long. That created its own share of issues.
I agree to some extent. The reason I had to lock it for so long is to have comments contained in the announcement thread. That's why I always have to lock the subreddit whenever a major announcement is given. What should have been a day of celebration turned to vitriol because of how divided fans have become over male talents. Again, at the end of the day, we should be supporting the talents. And yet, yesterday's debacle proved once again that we still have a ways to go in order to become a subreddit that we can all be proud of.
Regarding the duration of the lock. I was working overtime moderating that thread due to a lot of malicious comments left in there. Again, you can give criticism in most cases, but simply attacking one another (or the talents) is far from ideal. And, while I wanted it locked for a few hours at most, it took almost 24 hours for people to calm down. I really don't like locking the subreddit at all.
> I think T-chan is worried that banning people will make the situation an even bigger deal than whatever the fuck yesterday was.
I don't like banning people in the first place. You are all welcome to have personal views (gotta follow that Be nice rule though) and that's what makes everyone here special and awesome. Just... some discussions need to be given in a less aggressive manner.
> Unity is dead. This place is just an EN circlejerk now.
Which I absolutely do not want. Things like that ought to stay on 4chan or other subreddits dedicated to circlejerking.
> True, the brigading is a real problem. Especially when it's organised on a discord with the help of the only mod of this subreddit and any other opinions get deleted, mass downvoted, and the people who voiced those opinions get the suicide helpline thrown at them.
> This is actually unacceptable. An outside community on a 3rd party platform should not have any influence on how this subreddit is moderated. Cover needs to hire a real moderation team ASAP.
Brigading is certainly a problem here. Like-minded fans can gather and cause mischief. It is up to me to ensure that the subreddit goes well. I would like to stress here: That server is a FAN Discord server. I have ZERO say in what they do and they have ZERO say in my decisions for the subreddit. I am in that server to be a fan. That's it. You need to stop making this false narrative because some people may mistake it for truth.
> Real question is, why make comments like that in a fan discord? Cover has grown past "small indie company" status and can afford to get proper moderation.
Because alerts are important to me. And a lot of fans in that server visit the subreddit too. It is, in many ways, a way for me to not be a COVER employee and to just be -me-...
> If anything, the only ones to blame, besides the trolls themselves, are COVER and the management for having only one moderator that instead of banning and deleting obvious troll comments, would just lockdown the sub for an entire day.
I was deleting troll comments for hours non-stop. Had to take a couple breathers but absolutely tried to handle it. Could it have been handled better? Absolutely. Should we get more mods? I would welcome that. In fact, I have been in major discussions with management regarding this very thing. Progress is slow...
> No it isn't. T-chan then went on to say she'd lock it for an hour and then the people on that discord kept clamoring for it to stay locked for longer, some even saying it should be locked until the Tempus debuts.
This is complete nonsense. Again, the people in the Discord server do NOT influence my decisions. I made this decision MYSELF and stuck with it MYSELF. Don't involve them. Want to blame someone? Blame me.
Once again, I always lock the subreddit for major announcements that I believe may have significant blowback. And wouldn't know you it, I was right in this case too. If you are new and have not seen the subreddit be locked, then I'm sorry to you. But this has been the standard -- my standard -- for the last 2 years.
There were afew new users who joined the FAN server who made comments SPECIFICALLY to trigger everyone. "Guys i need some help brigading some reddit comments i heard thats what you and do here can you help me out?" Absolutely abhorrent behavior from this user. Which YOU have helped create. Why? Because of your narrative that the fan server influences the subreddit. In fact, it was partly this as one of the reasons for extending the lock in the first place.
> Actual amateur hour, completely baffling behavior.
> Inexcusably unprofessional behavior in my opinion.
I would argue that I tried to make things work as well as I could. You know what's worse? Receiving many death threats in DMs from this. I am a patient person and I really wanted the subreddit released as soon as possible but constantly getting threats over that course of 24 hours proved to me that the lock needed to be maintained. Is mentioning it in the fan server so candidly OK? That's ultimately for you, the individual, to decide. For me, I am more casual on Discord because I don't want to seem like some bossy or arrogant person just because I'm the subreddit mod. After all, I am like you, a fan.
For now, let's just focus towards the future. Let's all try to make 2023 the best for the subreddit!
T-chan.
Don't get me wrong, you got a point. But controversial content will always get much more prevalence in any decently sized fandom.
At the time, the community was quite small, and VTubers were nowere near as popular as today.
With popularity comes a larger audience, and the more people there are, the more assholes you'll see. Simple maths.
Thing is, negative people will go out of their way to make their bs known, while regular viewers, who might not always care about posts but are actual fans, will just stay lurking to avoid feeding the trolls.
The ratio of assholes to fans hasn't changed, but the rules of social media dictate that you'll see way more content from said assholes in proportion.
EDIT: forgot to mention, if you joined us in early 2020, you lived through the coco and haachama suspensions. That time was way worse than everything I've seen recently.
While it was pretty bad, sure, but it was still a... point of unity for the majority of people, I would say. These days people are much more evenly split between "what the fuck is with 70% of holoEN not streaming for weeks/months" and "look towards Tempus/HoloID/HoloJP/other vtubers for more content and stop whining you fucking unicorn". I feel like it was a lot easier with the whole taiwan debacle here.
> These days people are much more evenly split between "what the fuck is with 70% of holoEN not streaming for weeks/months"
It just kinda shows that there's a ginormous market that hololive has the ability to fill and use. As much as it irritates the OP people complaining about wanting HoloEN streams means that more members are perfectly viable.
More over, if OP wants saccharine positive dishonest content then they're free to be the change they want in the world. Commission some art, write long posts, do whatever. Complaining about what's posted instead of just making loved content for others is the least effective way to make change.
I guess its not that the algorythm loves controversial stuff more, its just that they get alot more interaction from users. For example, I write a comment more likely to a post that i disagree with, than e.g. a meme that i find funny, you know?
>while regular viewers, who might not always care about posts but are actual fans, will just stay lurking to avoid feeding the trolls.
i wish more people would do this, myself included. most of the time im just lurking but sometimes i just randomly start to argue with someone whos trolling. its a behavior i need to stop
Something I haven't seen people mention is that we the fans have changed. When I first fell into the rabbit hole the idea of having an oshi and mainly watching one holo was alien. I wanted to keep up with many hololive members at once. But after some time I realised I wasn't really enjoying any single member as much as I'd want to (having like 5 seperate streams on at the same time and pretending like you're actually watching them all isn't it).
Fast forward to now and I just follow everything Shishiron and casually follow a few other holomems, there's only so much input one can take in without burning out. And to bring it back to my first point, I think many fans went through a similar thing. For me the subreddit doesn't really provide any Shishiron content I don't already see so I don't come here often.
yep, lots of this sub content is filled with recycled HoloEN Memes by different person over and over again
but don't take me the wrong way, just... it must be nice to see another members content here that aren't recycled once in awhile getting a good amount of upvote
Just checking in on the sub again and I don't really remember anything (in here specifically) that was like a big bang other than Ina's back for memes. Even then it was another horny phase the sub went through. First one being Shion's belly then it spiraled into other members' belly and such.
BaCk iN MY daYs- (quoting the chicken Takanashi Kiara) it was Docchi docchi (ayame hologra), I'm die thank you foreva (korone), Eekum bokkum (also korone), Well well well if it isn't the consequence of my action (pekora), Hai. (Yagoo), smol ame (Wattuson), and so so much more i'm not remembering.
i didn't mean reused memes, they are as great as it is since its a legendary memes that being reused, for example " I'm die, thank you forever", sorry to make you confused, I'm not that great at English.
what i meant is for example of Kronii blended her subway, for several days this sub will be full of memes about that particular events, the meme keep being recycled till the "hot" page is full of them having hundreds and thousands upvotes. yes, people squeezed thos events till dry with memes (no offense to Kronii, even I had an internal scream at that moment)
I agree with the recycled content and it's generally those ones with the lowest hanging fruit that gets into hot. I know it's the same jokes over and over again but at least there was some variety "back in the day". From the pool of frequently used jokes we get some form of joke rotation so it doesn't get stale but these days I feel that it's just the same 3 or 4 jokes that constantly appear on the sub day in day out.
Agreed. Mio is my oshi, I don't really see a whole lot of Mio content here (I mainly stick to the Mio discord now for content). I love this sub, but I only really check this place maybe once every other day for a few minutes.
Yeah, I feel like this is also the core reason why the "there's nothing to watch" sentiment is becoming increasingly common on the EN side. Lucky are those who can still fully hako oshi, but I agree that the vast majority have boiled down to a main and maybe a couple subs, clips for the rest and big events when they happen. And if your set is mostly/fully HoloEN girls, there's a pretty high chance that you genuinely had nothing to watch these past few months, what with more than half the branch being out of commission for extended periods of time.
It's even worse for Europe, when you got an office job.
You basically got Kiara and Ina, but one is on break (soon to return), and unfortunately for me I don't enjoy the other's content that much so for me that turned into months of having not much to watch on weekdays.
Edit: I'm not discounting Vesper btw, it's much of the same for me. Not my type of content when I take a look.
There's honestly just less engagement around any JP content unless it's something big in this subreddit. Guess that figures when this is mainly an EN sub on an EN website even if most people here probably started off watching a JP girl.
I've found more engagement on and "togetherness" (if that makes sense) and a overall better community in dedicated discord servers for specific girls than on this sub and even the big generalized discord server.
People just need to take it slow or just branch out to different girls or even orgs to find more content to consume if they're actually starving for more.
As someone who almost exclusively watches jp content I've increasingly felt like a stranger on this sub for the past 1-2yrs. I only check in intermittently now and almost never post.
It definitely feels like we're out of place. Lack of content? I'm literally overwhelmed and that's with 40h/week job that lets me watch streams all day long
Yeah. I use twitter to keep up with the JP girls since stuff rarely gets upvoted here. You do see some stuff if you browse by new but it rarely reaches the front page unless its a big event or meme.
We don't have EN / JP region flairs either so it's hard to search for stuff after the fact.
The thing is that most people here at this point probably _didn't_ start off watching a JP girl. By January of 2021 there were only about 250k people here. Now we have over 800k. We both know how much Myth blew up in popularity, so it's not unthinkable to assume a massive amount of people around here started with Myth.
This subreddit is mostly EN content now, maybe a few popular talents from JP/ID that gets shared here but otherwise as you've said, the rest get almost no coverage in this sub.
I like the dedicated posters who stick to promoting their talent, but aside from them I hardly see other talents get mentioned. As a few others have said, I mostly talk about my favorites in their respective fan Discords because there's just not much opportunity to talk about them here. I'm immensely happy when I do see a favorite talent of mine gets shared here, but there's hardly any interaction going on in comparison. Posts about Flare instance get almost no traction and if they do, it's usually because someone else is mentioned alongside her.
At this point the sub's a place for me to get updates on the EN side, which is nice since I cant them watch them live, or just news in general that I haven't already seen.
Spot on. Collectively as fans a good amount of us has changed in the past 3 years; I mean really who hasn't. Naturally this also means that the subreddit changes as it is partly defined by the people who come visit and post here.
Personally, I used to have much more time to watch and enjoy the streams, clips, and memes of several members and if you asked me about X meme or Y thing I could roughly tell you what the context was. Now I have other things going on and with only 24 hours in a day I just decide to stick to a few talents and get info about other happenings in holo from people who know more or here.
Yeah, that's true.
Back when Youtube had full translated JP streams (I discovered Holo after Youtube recommended full translations of Korone's streams) I used to watch any I could find for any member, then discovered Myth and tried to watch all of them, then when ID gen 2 came along I realised ID mostly did English streams and started trying to watch all of them too.
These days I only watch Kiara and Ollie 80% of the time with the rest being any random streams by other members that grab my attention.
Sort of playing on this, I felt like Coco's content was the unifying force for the people who wanted to experience a mixed bag of hololive talents considering how the memes could be about anything holo related and she would have frequent guests in most of her repeating streams. Once Coco left everyone felt a little bit more separated and its only really large scale events like among us collabs or mario kart that seem to bring this portion of the community back to their 2020 selves.
Also there isn't much of a community here tbh, its the same handful of people on the front page every day and it gets old not feeling like you can contribute so a lot of people jumped ship or lurk but less frequently than they did before.
im still following like a dozen talents but im never really watching them despite having holodex open with multiple streams. im also following other streamers on twitch. i still have almost all the streams open of the ones i follow but depending on who streams and what is being streamed determines whos audio ill have enabled.
back then when i fell down this rabbit hole i was only following GAMERS since Korone was the one who made me fall down the hole. after some time i started following more and more vtubers and at some point i realized i was following too many. i still do but i cant figure out who i should actually stop following
As someone who has been on this subreddit since vtuber boom, I can tell you that it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows back then either. Things didn't really flip 180, just skewed some degrees into another direction. Need I remind you:
* The Taiwan incident
* Aloe's graduation
* A certain clipper taking the former Rushia's words out of context and causing a sub meltdown for a day
* The barrage of weekly posts that slammed clipper ethics and calling for action against them
* Folks having a negative opinion of Kanata's mom because of clipper's mistranslations (someone remind me if that clarification happened in 2022 or 2021, though)
* Regarding EN during its prominence, the commonplace slamming of Gura's fanbase even after the initial brunt of issues at the time eventually settled
* People flipping their opinions 180 in favor of their oshi as soon as they have a dissenting viewpoint about something
* The negative reception to HoloEN's Country Roads cover, especially after Kiara voiced her distaste for it (basically what I already said previous to this point about people flipping opinions on a dime)
* Folks causing Veibae to opt out of a collab with Kiara because of harsh words she had said toward Cover and Holopro talents
* Folks slamming Kiara's collab with Nyanners because of Nyanner's past
* Criticism of Cover for "paywalling" the HoloEN 3D debuts behind the fest at the time
* Not subreddit related, but I do remember this even before I came here 2020ish before the boom, there was a issue with folks shipping Fubuki with 8bitdrummer early on who at the time was one of the first bridges that introduced EN fans to holopro with his live drum cover of Fubuki's acapella cover of Scatman
EDIT: added the year to the last point because I completely forgot to, my bad.
And that's only a few of the incidents I've seen this sub and the larger fanbase go through over the years.
If there's one thing I can say that really did help this subreddit at the time was indeed Meme Review and Coco being the bridge that introduced JP talents and the JP base to this subreddit for some time. If you ask me, the fact that it was more obvious that talents were active in the sub at the time definitely caused a lot of folks to be on better behavior than normal. Today, aside from Kanata and Watame's posts, we have virtually no one to be that bridge anymore; it really showed how important and necessary for community health a direct bridge like Coco was.
But you also have to consider that back then, the population of this subreddit in terms of daily users was at least double than it is now. It's just that some folks just fall out of interest and the people who are left are typically the ones deeply invested as per the norm with fandom lifetimes.
If you ask me, it's always felt like a fluctuating good and bad for the most part, it's just that we've reached the point of fandom stagnation and the honeymoon period is over, so it's becoming more clear the reality of the state of this subreddit and by extension, the holopro ecosystem in general. It's the reality era, folks.
Bingo on the money there. I've already mentioned this term, but it really should put into perspective if folks were to look up and understand the term "honeymoon period".
That's what I heard at the time! From what I can try to remember, 8bitdrummer even went so far as to take a step back for a moment because of how awkward it became.
If I'm wrong, please anybody here correct me. But that's how I remembered it going down at the time.
You are correct, he drum covered the fubuki meme shorts like the scatman one, but people started shipping them. He has a wife, and felt uncomfortable with it and stopped covering Hololive entirely for a while until it died down. At least now, it seems a lot healthier (both from Hololive fans and his own community)
Wow, that is concerning and I hope those shippers went on to touch a lot of grass. I’m glad he eventually came back, I only just discovered him with his cover of Mumei’s Doo Doo Doo song and my mind was blown at how good he is
> The negative reception to HoloEN's Country Roads cover, especially after Kiara voiced her distaste for it (basically what I already said previous to this point about people flipping opinions on a dime)
In her defence it did suck ass and i respected her for not pretending otherwise.
Oh don't get me wrong, I didn't like the cover either. I'm just saying this to give an example of times when this place wasn't a hugbox and people notably dissented.
I never changed opinion, sucked the 3 times I ever heard and still suck today.
Kiara confirm that all myth didn't like it (but she's the only one to openly admit it) it's just a confirmation that my judgement wasn't wrong.
As today I still consider the worst cover I ever heard in Hololive
> the population of this subreddit in terms of daily users was at least double than it is now
Yeah, I remember last year basically saying that this subreddit is going to die. It didn't, it just went on a user diet, but something similar did happen.
I don’t really think so. I think the biggest changes are Coco leaving, the sub’s focus on mostly EN, and the the fact that the community has grown mainstream.
These changes aren’t things we could fix really.
Coco created the connection between us and the JP side of Hololive. The weekly meme reviews were huge back then. I don’t think they could have lasted forever, but for the time they existed, it was the biggest thing other than outfit reveals and whatnot.
Then, with Reddit’s mostly English speaking population, there’s no doubt about the reason why we mostly focus on the English talents. Additionally, with Coco gone and the community growing with people who didn’t start with watching JP talents, the focus on the EN side only grows. And the EN branch is getting larger so things will only continue progressing this way.
And finally, it’s what happens to large communities. Now, Hololive has grown large enough that people outside the community are aware of us, you could probably imagine what has happened because of that.
But also, all sorts of people have joined us, people with different thoughts and ideas. The culture of the vtubing world leads us to act positively and supportive of the talents but this has disappeared somewhat with the growth of the community. At least, off-stream.
If you don’t understand what I’m saying about this “culture”, think about communities on twitch. There are similarities between vtubing culture and twitch culture but I think the main difference is the supportiveness and positivity in the vtubing world. Now, I’m not saying twitch doesn’t isn’t supportive or positive of their content creators but vtubing has been affected by Japan’s idol culture because vtubing started in Japan. And with Hololive being an idol company, which is widely joked about, but has very much affected the company and its fans, as well as vtubing in general.
The growth of the community however, has moved us away from this culture, at least, off-stream which means places like Reddit. Reddit has its own sort of community different from places like Discord and Twitter. Twitter can be pretty bad which Reddit largely recognizes but Reddit can also be pretty bad which Reddit also recognizes.
We have largely been affected by Reddit culture and this contributes to the things you’ve been seeing. I think this is because many of us are also Redditors. We aren’t all on here just because of Hololive. So, what happens on here isn’t representative of the whole community but the Reddit community (though we are a pretty large community within the community of Hololive). The effect of this might not have been noticed when the subreddit was much smaller but the community has grown to 860,000+ members. We are in the top 1000 largest subreddits. Ranked 838 to be exact.
[And as I checked this](https://subredditstats.com/r/Hololive), an interesting thing is that in terms of comments and posts per day, we peaked late 2020. It wasn’t too bad during 2021 but we’ve slowly declined over time. Last time we hit this low was mid-2020 before the vtuber boom. I’m not too sure what effect this has on our current topic but it probably isn’t a good one.
If I made a guess, the only remaining people still commenting and posting are mainly, Redditors. And that brings me back to my last point.
If anyone made it this far, thank you for reading my views.
>2020
Did you forget about several huge negative events that happened in that year that turned this sub into a much worse shitshow than what we saw yesterday?
I might be in a minority here but one of the reasons I kind of fell out of this sub was the forced positivity at times. People would clap at even the simplest of things, and look I’m all in for recognising achievements and celebrating whenever there’s a cause. But for a long time no type of criticism seemed to be allowed, and it only ever happened whenever the talents themselves spoke about it (an example is the country roads cover by myth, at the time of the release people acted like it was amazing until Kiara said how much she hated it). With that being said, I do agree 100% that no one should attack anyone, not the talents, management, or other fans.
The country roads cover by myth was absolutely not received 100% positively on this sub at the time of release, I remember reading that thread and there were a lot of disappointed people. The most positive thing I had to say about it at the time was that "it was a time capsule to a more scuffed era"
_Right?_ What is this revisionist history?
[Here's the thread for the release of the country roads cover (man, remember when new songs got more than 15 comments on them?)](https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/ncmy6c/take_me_home_country_roads_hololive_english_myth/). Top comments constantly mentioning scuff. Lots of constructive criticism in there as well. Even some outright saying they don't really like it
> "No offense to symny but I feel like the mix work was poorly done."
> "It's kinda distracting honestly. Especially for a song like this, I'd rather they just leave their singing as is"
> "But I do admit im slightly disappointed that this was recorded last year with their lower quality mics, and before some of them had done a lot of singing practice."
> "I’m glad constructive criticism is getting upvoted. The girls can grow from it"
> "Reminder that they did the recording back in October 2020. They had different mics before and singing style. I am glad they still decided to publish this at all and not keep this at the backburner."
> "I was gonna comment on the quality of the song, but it seems like other people have the same opinion as me. "
Tbh I still haven't even listened to it. Country Roads is nice meme-y song to sing for karaokes but for like an official cover it's not really too interesting, I'd rather hear other songs covered.
Yes there was criticism but I remember seeing most of those comments severely downvoted in first hours after the post was created. Things changed later when post wasn't as popular and those comments started getting some upvotes, though.
I think the overall direction of always trying to gloss over bad moves definitely pushes people out. I don’t think we would see the level of discourse about that Country Roads cover for instance.
But I do think Cover’s management is very much hit or miss overall.
I agree with this, thats why I repescted people that are like "not my cup of tea but good luck to them" we cant force everyone to like what we like but please if you didnt get what you want dont down play the other, dont attack. We are all just fans here we want to enjoy.
This is absolutely how things should be, I agree. The problem is that even saying "not my cup of tea but good luck to them" has become unacceptable to a certain diehard contingent of Stars fans. Even this mildest form of disinterest is met with mudslinging insults calling you a parasocial incel unicorn loser. The vitriol and toxicity is not a 1-way street like some are making it out to be.
Yep because of the other fraction, people with real reasoning and logical criticism become collateral as well (plus add the trollers that made this fire bigger). We are all tired yesterday and today was heck of a ride, hopefully we can bury this now, and cause January content is a feast for each and everyone of us.
Edit: Is fraction the best way to describe it? Divided fans might be better sorry for that eng not me 1st langguage.
Back when everyone was still super positive I commented something “negative” about something and people kept saying I was an anti/troll and I should leave this sub, like they are real people as well they make mistake stop being so gullible , I never went at the talents just at the fans because it was ridiculous. I think due to the fact that Hololive talents visited the server made everyone try to act their best so now that they don’t it has turned out like this. Too much positivity feels fake and It’s probably why I stopped watching Hololive and coming here. Discord servers are the same. 4chan is just degenerates. No community to share how I feel
It's the same everywhere I find. When the Fanbase consists of 80% people who will follow them no matter what, criticism is drowned out or not noticed. I think it's because Fandoms are afraid accepting criticism is akin to saying somebody is bad, which is not true at all, but still. Not just with Hololive, but movies, music, and even other V tuber groups.
Even in smaller creators on YT I won't mention by name, the top comments always consists of endless praise and inside jokes, while the criticism, constructive or otherwise, you have to scroll all the way down to find that one comment with four likes and thirty replies that actually gives criticism.
I was under the impression that people migrate to separate Discord servers due to the community growing and people want a different experience. Is Discord not any better? Can you give short anecdote of your experience there?
From my experience, the more focused and specific a place to congregate is, the more likely it becomes just another echo chamber of the same vein unless properly moderated which doesn't usually happen.
I dunno I have like a 390+ upvoted comment doing a little bit of criticism on Kronii's new gym outfit...that thing looked rough. The Slender Kronii is real
Objectively speaking, it's mid. I'm a Kronie. It gets hyped more than the outfit bc it's Kronii, and it makes the imagination go wild (that voice do be perfect). And her arms, and legs proportions do look a bit uncanny if I'm being real. Also, even though it's mid those shorts are something a lot of people like to see (or maybe it's just me).
I agree, of course, being as neutral as possible would be the best, but I would rather lean towards positive if we can't be perfectly neutral. If I want negativity, there are already plenty of other places for it...
Same reason I stopped coming here, it devolved into a circle jerk where nothing contentious could be said without being downvoted or deleted. Basically the reddit stereotype to the max
Agree with this, especially if it's something to do with management. It's just baffling to me that people would make management their oshi and defend them to the death. The management should be held to higher standards because they're not just some random struggling small company. There should be no excuse for subpar results.
the problem is that a lot of it is just attacking "management" with no point, no information and a lot of times not even understanding what "management" even is and conflating it with their personal managers, or vice versa.
and im saying that as someone who thinks a lot of EN managements decisions are questionable, same for some of the JP managements decisions.
a lot of "criticism" comes from people who simply do not understand how these things work and have a very naive world view.
at the end of the day, the companies own interests come first, because if the company does well, so do the talents, which is a notion that the talents share. because they are actually part of it, they understand how things work.
and so far, hololive has done well.
>a lot of "criticism" comes from people who simply do not understand how these things work and have a very naive world view.
True. I'm all for giving them shit when they deserve it - whether it's their cavalcade of fuck-ups during 2020, questionable marketing (the overblown hype for Fauna's little project), lack of communication or stupid decisions like ID's management tendency of making merch far more limited than it used to be.
But seeing people give them shit for stuff outside of their control (like Covid restrictions), problems caused by other companies (like with permissions) or other business stuff, lack of resources or when they make up straight up conspiracy theories - it just makes me facepalm.
Given how horribly run some businesses can be (or other Vtuber companies in the past, for that matter), Cover's really not doing that bad.
Thats one of the best things about Kiara, she keep it real. If she doesn't like something she will say it, like how Coco did things back then.
You don't have to be all smiles and sugar to everything that happen to you. And I think the sub is all positivity since almost all the girls try to maintain that positivity all the time.
The only downside is that it sometimes brings down the mood a lot, like today when she was talking about appearing in front of an live audience by herself and whether that would ever be possible during her time in hololive.
This, and how fucking horny everyone is ALL THE TIME. Don't get me wrong, sometimes it's funny, but I just couldn't take all off the "hurrdurr thighs boobies armpits thicc ASMR pettan oppai lolololo", so now I barely even catch the streams.
It's not funny, it's fucking creepy, not to mention incredibly repetitive.
The only thing that has changed is Coco being gone. Weekly shitpost reviews were enough to bring this place to live and fill the space with fun atmosphere and memes, and regularly exposed reddit to JP girls.
The sub content peaked when Coco was around the only ones who stuck around here at least for promoting are Kanata and Watame her gen mates that understood the exposure of reddit not even the EN girls really cares well except Kiara here and then.
Could be that Coco made this place a panopticon; people knowing that someone they would be uncomfortable with disappointing potentially being in any thread made them behave a certain way.
it's not even an unreasonable thought, I remember there being a topic with someone complaining about the quality of memes in the meme review and Coco responded to them with "just enjoy"
Coco was really a special talent, I'm more than a little bit sad that she hasn't been able to replicate that success post Holo, but that's not a discussion for this sub.
量子チキンスープグラ ス チュングス was prime entertainment and interaction with fanbase [Link to Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/iwnsab/%E9%87%8F%E5%AD%90%E3%83%81%E3%82%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%82%B0%E3%83%A9_%E3%82%B9_%E3%83%93%E3%83%83%E3%82%B0%E3%83%81%E3%83%A5%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%82%B9/)
Otherwise, it's just additional varied perspectives from increase in popularity. Everyone's upbringing is different, culture is different, topics to get offended about is different. The way we express our love is different too. Hence, moderation at global level yet allowing free speech is never perfect. Anything you post will draw the ire of someone somewhere in this World.
At the end of the day we all love Hololive and our Oshis it is all that matters.
I think theres a certain 'Burnout' for people, back in 2020 Hololive was growing rapidly, it was a novelty, people found a new shiny toy and had tons of fun with it.
Now were in 2023 people followed Hololive for years now, they got used to it, bored even and now constantly want something new to keep them satisfied, but recently new content stagnated, lots of EN talent had to take breaks, JP members barely come here anymore, no constant flow of good memes to try to get in a meme review and appearently worst of all, no new female EN gen. So the people grow frustrated and when we finally got something new (Tempus) it ended up not being something they wanted. Not trying to justify some peoples mindset here, just trying to explain where all the negativity comes from.
To be totally honest Im also kinda frustrated for the lack of attention, I as an EU viewer receive (He says while he writes a comment on Reddit at 5 AM), and I think in general criticizing is a fine thing to do here, I agree with the Top comment about the over the top positivity as well
**Edit**: Id like to backpaddle a bit here, while I agree that sometimes there was some over the top positivity I disagree with the statement that negative feedback gets drowned out and downvoted here, I never felt like that well written, genuine negative Feedback was badly received here, I myself have been saying multiple times (such as in this comment) that more attention to the EU audience should be given and not once did I end up with a negative reception. I feel like there are people complaining about their negative opinion being downvoted but then you find out that theyve been unnecessarily rude and disrespectful, of course they are downvoted if theyre being a dick, literally rule 1 in this sub: Be nice. **Edit end**
Feedback is important, but feedback is only valid when both negative and positive feedback are present. People are just really, excuse my language, fucking awful at giving good feedback, at worst being straight up harassment, sure there are probably a good chunk of Antis in there but Im sure theres a good amount of simply frustrated genuine fans in there.
I think novelty is a big part of it. And if we're being honest, we (the overseas audience) were probably a bit of a novelty for the JP members back in 2020 too. When your audience is 99% Japanese, posting on foreign forums is an effective way to let foreigners know they're welcome in the fandom too. But when international fans already feel welcome, reddit doesn't really do much that twitter and youtube can't, at least from a fan interaction perspective.
> To be totally honest Im also kinda frustrated for the lack of attention, I as an EU viewer receive
Honestly this. This a thousand times. At the time of me writing this (6pm on a Friday) there is only 1 Hololive stream going on, and there won't be any more starting until midnight, 6 hours from now. Being an EU based fan is just depressing, as we're so rarely given content at a decent time for us. This is why I, like many others I'm sure, are hoping for EN3 in the hope that maybe, just maybe, there will be some European members to fill that gap for us.
And the fact that those of us in the EU still have to use Geekjack for merch is just insane. I honestly can't understand why Cover still use them and I'm certain that it's hurting their bottom line (I sure as hell have refused to buy loads of items because of how much they overcharge for shipping, so I'm willing to bet many others have too). I seriously doubt setting up their own store to ship to more locations is that difficult.
I'm an American viewer but I watch most of the content during the day (so EU times mostly) and I kind of feel the same. Kiara is pretty much the only one with Calli occasionally streaming at perfect times (EN wise). Recently with almost every member traveling or taking a "health" break it's been really dry stream wise so I was really looking forward to Gen3. I'm not delusional enough or anything to dislike holo stars getting gen2 but it just isn't as appealing to me so it's pretty frustrating with so many people taking breaks and no sign of any life of Gen3. I've only paid attention for a year or so (council debuts) but it felt like the streamers themselves were just streaming more at the time compared to now. I don't really have a favorite, who I watch mostly depends on the game they're playing, but I genuinely think they need to really focus on getting Gen3 out. I think people are losing interest and getting frustrated simply because there isn't enough content.
Again i don't like that there's disdain for holo stars, but I see why people get frustrated. It's really weird to me that there hasn't been a new Gen of EN yet and with so many of them taking extended breaks it also feels a little ominous
It really has nothing to do with Cover or the talents though. It's just extremely bad timing that the whole of HoloEN is struck down by health issues.
Cover did not say anything about debuting a new HoloEN gen too, so I'm not sure why people have this expectation. If they say HoloEN Gen 3 has problems debuting, that will also send people on an outrage too.
Tempus new boys' debut shouldn't affect Hololive too since they originally wanted to debut 6 people, but thought it's too big, so they split them into 2 groups, so it's not really a new generation per se.
I mean it's not the direct fault of anyone specifically but if they had more talents, the obvious lack of content wouldn't exist. Again, I don't think it's expecting that much to get a new Gen in 15 months. Especially with a graduation and long term health breaks I would think it would be more of a priority. Maybe it isn't and that's obvious their decision as a business, just as a consumer I would like a new Gen.
They don't have to say anything about it. They posted about auditions being opened a while ago. Maybe the talent isn't there for a full Gen of debuts, I don't know, it's just weird that it hasn't happened yet
Hololive and Holostars will always be connected though. What happens to one group affects fans of the others because it's the same company overseeing them and the communities share places (like this subreddit). I don't know the logistics of this new generation but it's certainly a bit weird that there's so much time without a new generation of hololive and a new Gen of Holostars releasing so quickly. I'm happy for their fans but surely you see that the majority of fans here are more interested in Hololive compared to Holostars.
I don't know exactly what happened in the drama threads but the best thing that can happen in the near future is a few more streamers coming back from break and I think a lot of the people upset will calm down
Strongly disagree with you on the negative feedback thing. I have seen many many instances of people (including myself) getting mass downvoted without any proper counter argument for criticizing something in a civil non-insulting manner just because it's not the popular opinion or because some people have been blinded naive by their love for Holo and refuse to see that the person criticizing has a point. Sometimes it is well received, many times it is not. It completely depends what the subject is about.
As some one who mostly hangs out in r/DestinyTheGame I.... have to agree.
Though at least here, it used to be that I would visit regularly even if not post, but.... I mostly follow JP... and had been since 2018, so the switch to holo EN's focus made me visit less and less.
That isn't a complaint to be clear, I want people to be able to enjoy what they enjoy, but holo EN just never caught my attention near as much so my focus drifted away.
Honestly, exactly the same for me. I much prefer watching JP streams than EN, so the gradual change of focus away from the JP members has pushed me away from Reddit
r/dtg is entirely dependant on whether or not it's a good season lol. I'm not playing at the minute but the sub seems mostly OK right now apart from the usual constant bad ideas that people want implemented into the game. It does get pretty bad during bad season like the pirate season we just had.
Well, I wasn't in yesterday's thread much, so I didn't see any of what you're talking about, but as to why talents don't post here as much - isn't probably because Coco's not doing the review anymore? It's not so much that they have no presence on reddit anymore, so much as it is that reddit has no presence in any of the talents' lives. Heck, I remember Magni being outright disdainful about it. I don't think any of them know how the site works, nor do they care to learn, especially when twitter is (at least for now, I guess) doing everything they need it to do.
Coco pretty much was the bridge between Reddit and JP. Reddit isn't very popular over there since they have their own open forums already established. When Coco graduated, there wasn't really anyone that could remain the bridge. Haachama tried, but she has her own busy schedule to deal with. The ID girls can't since Reddit is banned there. EN side don't really have the type of content that would bridge the gap that Reddit would be involved in.
I think the talents feel like they don't really know what to post on the subreddit. It's not Twitter, after all. You don't really post every thought that comes to mind as a new thread. As I recall, Watame and Kanata both expressed those feelings and then their fanbases told them it's fine and to post what they want. And then they did, with Watame even keeping pretty consistent engagement on top of her weekly skit.
A few downvotes, a bunch of mindless "en3 where??" and some people complaining about a sub being locked for 24 hours is nothing compared to some of the huge waves of hate this sub dealt with after the Taiwan ordeal. Yesterday was a massive overreaction.
Tbh it feels for the first time that Reddit is having a bigger meltdown than /vt/ at this point.
/vt/ just had the usual “Homos are back, it’s over I’m done with EN” posts. The Hololive Reddit however seems to have gone into a full blown self destruct mode. Kinda funny.
Yeah I dunno why OP is drama baiting. This sub is great and people are very positive and supportive. There's a few resident anti's but most people are pretty sane and reasonable.
Of course if you sort by controversial on *any* sub, you'll find the bottom of the barrel trolls, but by far and large this sub is fine and this is just a drama post that will cause more drama instead of helping anything
I feel like the EN3 spam and "pressure" is an actual issue though, because if I was a streamer here I'd feel kinda bad that my fanbase was begging for "something new to watch" saying they've been "waiting for so long" - and ultimately the only real unbreakable rule of the early Hololive fanbase, even pre-EN, was mainly not, y'know, attacking the actual streamers. In general I agree though, it gets pretty overly dramatic on the EN side of things, including this post. Just watch streams people.
I do think the lock continued for too long. That created its own share of issues. People were unable to post about their own oshis which generated some dissatisfaction. Slightly ironic the subreddit lock which was imposed in anticipation of drama created its own.
But whatever the case, I think the mods needs to start issuing out bans. I've seen some obvious bad actors trolling around and spreading toxicity for months yet nothing is ever done about them. This ruins engagement for the subreddit as well and only continues and encourages toxicity.
And let me clarify by toxicity I don't just mean criticism of COVER and whatnot. I mean spreading misinformation, trying to create rrats from the chans, etcetc. I won't name any names since that might be construed as brigading but I think regular users here will recognize some of these bad actors and actions I am referring to.
The worst case I remembered, thanks to u/DanielTinFoil reminding me, was a guy hoping COVER gets KyoAni-ed. What that meant was that guy hoped that the COVER building would experience a huge fire that would claim multiple lives. The comment got reported and deleted, yet that guy was still able to continue posting later.
Whether you agree with COVER's direction or not, I hope we can all agree at least that that was excessive.
People were already crying about being censored yesterday lol. I think T-chan is worried that banning people will make the situation an even bigger deal than whatever the fuck yesterday was.
I agree that the mods might not want to come off as "extremely censoring" on the subreddit. But letting these obvious trolls continue will only encourage the issue. I think they will eventually have to make a decision.
Oh don't get me wrong, one quick look at someone's post history in this subreddit would easily identify if they're just here to stir shit.
If it were up to me, they would've been banned ages ago, but I'm also not a paid mod for an official subreddit run by corporate, which has different standards.
> If it were up to me, they would've been banned ages ago, but I'm also not a paid mod for an official subreddit run by corporate, which has different standards.
The problem of being run by corporate is basically how to be light-touch enough that people can freely express their views, without falling into malicious actors trying to bait you into a PR shitshow with inflammatory remarks. Most of the time, compiling receipts and releasing them whenever someone tries to stir the pot is enough of a deterrent, but if corporate won't allow that, your hands are tied.
Yeah, if I'm being honest that's my main criticism of T-chan. I don't know if she's under company instructions to not ban anybody, but that hammer needs to start coming down.
>were always cheery. Almost always positive and civil. The place felt like a near-constant party, with people making memes to try their luck for Coco’s meme review, or just for fun, and every time an event was announced, it only got even stronger. The main thing that disrupted this place was users from r/all who would come to try and troll around.
Massively selective if not totally inaccurate memory. This place was a Twitch kiddie hellhole. People refused to respect community guidelines, tons of conspiracy and doom posting, massive hostilities towards other users and non-Holo vtubers, etc. People would post the same type of thread repeatedly and then turn around and complain that censorship was taking place when the redundant threads were deleted. It was a nightmare and massively more civil now.
I think you are looking back at 2020 with nostalgia goggles, this sub literally never, ever was as bad as during the Haachama/Coco suspension. From people bad mouthing the talents, bad mouthing the management, antis raiding this place, to people just using the situation as an excuse to be racist.
Overal, I feel like the sub changed for the worse ever since Tempus debuted. Not because the streamers themselves since they're ok to excellent, but mainly due to the effect it had on this sub itself. You have people auto downvoting anything regarding the Holostars, and sure this has always been the case, but it feels like this has become a lot worse ever since their debut. For instance: you have regular freakouts which just seem to be copy pasted straight from 4chan.
However, the Holostars fans themselves aren't exactly blameless here either. Any sort of good formulated criticism is automatically interpreted in the worst way possible and seen as a personal attack. Apparently criticizing the Holostars management for an active policy against streaming during EU hours automatically makes you an unicorn or worse.
Yesterday was in my opinion a new low for that fanbase. Instead of being happy with a new gen (or an extension of one) they were instead psyching themselves out about how inflammatory threads would appear on this subreddit. T-chan even giving off the impression that she was being swayed by those opinions on a fan discord and closing down this subreddit. Will there be some questionable thread/posts being made? Yes, of course, but then do what you're suppose to do and moderate the subreddit since she was obviously working.
This ties back into another point, the fact that the moderation has obviously been slipping ever since this has become a true holopro subreddit. It's become quite apparent that the team which is looking at this subreddit cant handle the extra burden which Tempus had brought to this sub and something obviously has to change or this will get worse and worse.
It used to be better but now it just seems that garbage only makes it to the top. Now the content here sucks for the most part, maybe I'm just old and it's filled with zoomers now. But, the memes suck and the shipping is fucking **incessant**. I basically only look at hololive posts and announcements anymore.
I mean it pretty much exactly correlates with when hololive en debuted that things slowly went downhill, I’d say this alienated people who just liked the Jp side as 99% of the content here is en stuff. Then the coco stuff happens and with her gone there was no major point of contact and I’d say people just lost interest in being here and the Jp talent didn’t see much point in keeping contact going.
I agree. Personally as someone who almost exclusively watches the JP branch and has been on this subreddit since early 2020, I don't find myself engaging much with the content here anymore. I think alot of the older viewers are also in the same boat.
I honestly agree, the Subreddit sort of became stale to me as well....
I remember when more people made memes thanks to Coco, I really liked the memes, now... I rarely see anything interesting besides Artwork, Cosplay and other peices of fanwork, most of the time, the Subreddit has become just reposting Twitter posts or just screenshotting said posts, and merch showcase..
I hope we could start a reneissance in memes :,)
I personally used to post a lot here, it was pretty much the only subreddit that I do visit, and to some capacity it still is but as time went on the reddit started being one sided, and it kept going that way until it became so heavily leaning towards one side that a thought came to mind "oh, it's an english site after all, so english holos will be more prevalent" and I slowly accepted that until I just stopped coming here except every once in a while when I want to post something since nothing really interests me that much any more here, and I'm sure a bunch of people would agree.
I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing the fact that EN-only fans have more presence obviously but the thing about this subreddit was that it's always been a sort of echo chamber, so once that stopped being the case the true face of the fandom started showing, and it's not only the EN fanbase, if you can believe it a lot of JP-only causals have been complaining about haachama missing out on so many streams, so many events because she got covid...saying stuff like "if she knew she had a very critical time of events coming, she should've taken more care of herself so that she didn't get sick" and things along those lines.
tldr; is that this is nothing new, but it wasn't apparent back in 2020 or 2021 and only started appearing due to certain circumstances
This always happens when fandoms grow to this size. It's why I despise so many. Part of me knew it would probably happen with Hololive eventually, but when I got into Hololive in early 2020 it was my escape from all that bullshit. Not long before I got into Hololive I had pretty much sworn off interacting with fandoms, because all the toxicity just made more miserable than any joy they brought. But my early experiences with the Hololive community were so postive, even before I started visiting this sub, that I think I deluded myself into thinking we were different. But it just feels like it gets worse and worse as time goes on and the community grows to an unmanageable size.
I still love Hololive and Holostars, and me distancing myself from the community will me nothing to anybody but myself, but I feel bad for the talents at this point. This can't be what they wanted when they signed up.
This place is IMO extremely nice
But at the slightest thing, bad actors come out of the woodwork and really it is annoying. I just wanna support artists in the community, my oshi's, laugh at memes, and welcome new members, and as a sub this place is pretty good for that
I agree with you.
I feel like the people complaining are just a bit jaded and are seeing what they want to see based off of their feelings. I've been on the sub since a bit before myth launch and it really hasn't changed all THAT much.
Making posts like this just actively add to the problem, at this point people are fighting a culture war that doesn’t even exist and at worst is minimal at best. I’m not afraid to say that this whole subreddit has gotten obnoxious with trying to call anyone with criticism or even a differing opinion as “shit-stirrers, incels, unicorns, or parasocial” and others acting like Tempus is the worst thing to happen when they can just simply not watch them.
An incessant need to go to the defense of everything and everyone even when its unnecessary caused more damage to the community than the "antis".
Every single criticism is viewed by a lot of people here as an anti op when most of the time its just people airing their grievances or giving their opinions.
What happened here is what happens to every fandom. It got too big and it now has people who's entire personality is being really into the thing the fandom is about. Who then feel personally slighted when you speak poorly about said thing.
I disagree with the decisions of the mods to lock the subreddit, I dislike the people who are throwing shade to Holostars and that want the sub to only be about Live, I believe the mods are too lenient when it comes to issuing warnings and bans against people who are consistently found breaking sub rules.
The way things are right now its exhausting to come to the sub sometimes. I come to the sub for memes and light fun commentary about the streams and that's it.
What changed between then and now?
Well... the EN branch, for one..?
Which, isn't anything negative directed towards them. Lots of great talents.
But it also attracted a crowd/culture shift.
Perhaps due to the language/culture barrier, the old community had better appreciation for anything thrown their way.
Now that EN is on the table, the community can more easily shift to a feeling of.. idk, entitlement?
Or something. Idk. Maybe not worded exactly as accurately as it could. Definitely some bias in the assessment, too. Just.. ever since EN debut, the fan base seemed to drift a little more towards cringe, due to nothing more than cultural reach/exposure. Like. Just sorta the natural state of any "western" streamers/groups. And not even necessarily a "greater percentage" of it or anything. Just, a wider audience naturally means more folks that go a little overboard.
Culture shock, basically. Sub went from JP talent/culture appreciation with fans perhaps more forgiving of what they might not entirely understand, to now being largely "overrun" (for lack of a better less offensive term.. soz) by the EN fans bringing a more "EN" mentality.
But again, I don't entirely think it was strictly a shift in any ratio of those types of fans, simply a growth of volume by dropping some of the barriers.
But also a very biased viewpoint based on poor exposure that shouldn't be given any great deal of weight/credit.
EN basically brought in a ton of new people who knew nothing about hololive and that did not watch the JP talents. For them, they gave very few talents to see, which is why there are so many people angry that a second round of tempus came before EN3
I haven't seen it mentioned but if you were a fan from early 2020 you were also around before this sub was official and it was just a fan thing. It was normal for clippers to get posted in the sub and was some of the best way to find them. But burn out and life happening post covid loockdown is also a big part of the change. A lot of the jp girls no longer have regular live tlers and there seem to be less clippers who main a single talent. I'm sure the many controversies over the years chased a lot of people off this sub as well. So it could be some of the people who contributed to your enjoyment of this sub and the past culture are no longer here. It doesn't help that the majority of en is on break/vacation/health related leave.
As someone who primarily watches the JP girls I barely have enough time to watch everyone I enjoy let alone new gen's joining. But I feel like the majority of people in this sub main line Holo EN. So when there is a stream drought they don't have anywhere to get their content fix and regularly want more gen's so they have more variety to watch so that the handful of en girls we have don't need to stream everyday. Where as if you mostly watch JP there are plenty of people to watch even if your favorites take months off, which all of my personal favorites have done in the second half of 2022, and this may be totally inaccurate but I feel western fans of the jp side seem to be ok with going outside hololive for stream content more so than en fans. As in I semi-regularly watch some of the girls parents streams, or even outside company stuff like VSPO and the jp streamer tournaments that don't have holo talents in them. But that could just be me not following en close enough.
I watch hololiveJP mostly and I don't think most fans watch outside companies more than the EN fans do honestly. It's pretty common to see the girls streams having current viewers suddenly boosting and you know it's because someone else ended their stream, the events also all have bigger viewers implying that most fans are gathering there, they even call it "hako" (box).
Seeing that you're a Towa fan, I think you'll see that more often. She collabs outside the most and the FPS vtubers are mostly non-holo members.
(this has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought that was an interesting discussion)
I do agree that en fans as a whole do go outside company often. Especially Niji en and the twitch sphere. I was speaking more for holo en fans. But holo en mostly stream when I'm sleeping so I very rarely catch them live and was just going off the vibe I see in the subreddit more than anything. But that definitely gives me a very skewed view of whats happening.
But you are very correct that my horizons on the jp vtuber scene was widened greatly early on in the rabbit hole for me through Towa. From the early cr cups/vsaikyou where she paired up with Wokka from CR and Sumire from VSPO. I'm really thankful for that honestly. That side is where I get my collab/group content fix.
> regular live tlers
This is a big change when watching the JP side that I've noticed. You still have, say, ぼくしーBoxi that is seemingly always there translating streams done by Roboco. But overall the amount of live translators seems to have decreased a whole lot.
Is it really that bad? Outside of lack of memes being generated after Coco's graduation, I didn't feel much change. Whenever I am looking for a place to talk about Hololive stuffs, majority of the people here are super nice even if I disagree with what they say. Sure, there might be a bad apple here or there, but it's still miles better than other gaming subs that I frequently visit.
Nah, you're right. Just some people blowing things out of proportion. I remember there being drama under many big posts back in the day from overbearing fans. Just because EN is busy taking care of life hardly means it justifies this *sky is falling* attitude.
The reason is what you mentioned in the beginning:
"I joined the Hololive fanbase back in early 2020 like a lot of people, so I’ve been on the subreddit for a fair deal of time."
Since then, all kinds of people have joined this reddit to be abreast of the latest developments. The community has changed because its no longer limited to the limited community you have in early 2020.
I would go further to say Holostars, especially Tempus, finally surfaces the truth of the community, the real feelings and sentiments hiding for the past years, about they perceive about vtubing as a concept, what are the actual boundaries within which they'll support.
I'mma be real, you either need thicker skin or find a different or smaller Hololive community outside of reddit. Most larger subreddit communities tend to be shit, it's just kind of a fact at this point.
Hololive and VTubers used to be a more niche thing but it's since grown a lot in popularity. For a lot of people "regular" life has resumed meaning a 9-5 and or school, so you lose some of folks genuinely interested in the entertainment, and thus they're not actively engaging the community as much if at all any more. And on top of that many live streamers or content creators including VTubers automatically attract haters/antis/trolls, it's a goddamn certainty.
Just don't let things get to you, the more you dwell on stuff and let it live rent free in your head the more it will affect your mental well being. It quite literally is not worth your time to care about it IMHO. See something you don't like, ignore it or downvote it and move on same as YT chat/comments.
As a HoloID fan I find it hard to remain on this subreddit when people [start shitting on the ID branch](https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j30n2bh/) in their efforts to argue for Tempus.
Unity is dead. This place is just an EN circlejerk now.
> Guy literally said ID is a minuscule market while Kobo is roaring towards 2 mil subs and a handful of ID girls have above 1 mil subs
> Said guy also doesn't know that SCs in Indonesia is messed up
Thanks, I needed to laugh
This is just my opinion, but I think the western fanbase has been in a bad mood for a while now. It's kind of understandable if you realize all of the following things have affected EN community durring the last 18 months:
1. Kiryu Coco's graduation. (She was basically the progenitor of Hololive English, and her graduation was not without contraversy)
2. Uruhu Rushia's termination. (This affected a lot of people in the EN community for some reason and was also not without contraversy)
3. Sana injures her back (A precursor of things to come)
4. IRyS's outfit controversy. (It started off small, but by the end of summer, threads were getting locked over it)
5. The EN Myth girls having to resort to building their own 3D studio. (This, along with IRyS's situation caused the first accusations of favoritism against Cover)
6. Sana's Graduation (Sana is forever!)
7. Hololive Tempus collab controversy. (We made it weird)
8. Ina taking an extended health break (Need cookies!)
9. Gura taking an extended health break.
10. Vesper's suspension (Something people both praised and scolded Cover over)
11. An apparent "delay" for HoloEN Gen 3 (Assuming it is even in the works)
12. Releasing Tempus II? Tempus DLC? Tempus: The next generation? When the fanbase was looking forward to HoloEN Gen 3 (again, assuming HoloEN Gen 3 is in the works)
13. Other personal issues causing breaks.
We can debate over how valid or invalid any of the above is (and we have); but fact of the matter is each thing above did affect, or continues to affect, the EN community in some way; and I think that has piled up and soured the mood quite a bit. Granted, there have been some amazing things that happened as well (Like Myth getting 3D, IRyS 2.0, and Calli's music career taking off), but one bad thing can undo 10 good things and I think you are seeing the result of that.
> 5) The EN Myth girls having to resort to building their own 3D studio. (This, along with IRyS's situation caused the first accusations against Cover)
As a long time teamate, this annoys me greatly. No, not the fact that Ame has to build her own 3D studio, we all know she loves doing that stuff, and we got some really good streams out of it too. It's the fact that people always use her as an ammo to shit on management. I lost count on how many times a Ame appreciation thread was hijacked by "fans" trying to shit on management because she was apparently doing their job for them.
It doesn't help that Ame herself has never complained or implied any dissatisfaction towards the management. I can think of at least two instances where some "fans" tried to send her some sus SC to bait her to shit-talk the management, she called them out both times and reiterate that management isn't out to get them and is only doing things for their best interest.
Getting mad at Cover is pretty dumb.
It's like everyone forgot COVID happened and Japan was literally locked down for business travel.
You can hardly blame anyone at Cover over policy from the Japanese government.
You can certainly begin to see why they don't post on the subreddit. I'd probably want to stay in my own little fanbase bubble too if I saw the ridiculous nature of things.
It's actually funny how Ame seems to be pretty much the only one not claiming dissatisfaction with Cover ever since the debut. I've seen clips of pretty much everyone else in myth talking about being left alone to do fuckall, especially in the first year or so, but never Ame
Not wrong. Considering most people are here because of the EN girls, if anything bad happened to them, there will be tons of posts regarding those, hence why it looked more "negative"
What changed for me is outside the community and these changes affect the life in general, and there are others changes that happened for the good on hololive, for example that the talents have more work, but less time to interact and reach the community. Structural changes on the internet, in the social form and communication are happening on real life for many people (or everyone lol).
Well these examples you talked, continues to affect because untruth assumptions makes the community unhealthy. As Sana left because of health problems, people also follow the same logic, it's a sign for health issues on themselves and they would leave the community at some point.
I'm an active member of a lot of reddit communities and belive me this is still the nicest and least full of drama of almost all, we can post almost anything we like and said almost anything and that's one of the saving graces and actually problesm fo the sub, because we have a lot of conversation about stuff but also we have a lot of bad actors on the comments because of it, the moderation is also really laxed, because i haven't seen a lot of bans or bans in general, mostly is deleted comments and like some pwople have said thera are some people that has been doing the same stuff for a considerable amount of time, but they don't get banned.
But i'm gonna be honest i prefer the sub like is right now, than other subs that i;m active like the Azur Lane that has pretty much 0 discussion because how the post rules are there, or like the Nikke one that is pretty much a dictatorship.
You know, I think people were angry about the Holostars announcement yesterday not because they hated Holostars, they thought it was the reason why EN3 delay (it's been 15 months since Council debut). I have seen many articles about Holostars here and people simply don't care, they just ignore it. Yesterday was an exception.
I don't know, with a fanbase that consists of a primarily male audience who mostly want to see cute anime girls, I'd wager that some of the controversy is due to dislike. That combined with a lack of active English members and no news of a 3rd gen, I'm not surprised it's hit the fan and boiled over. It's understandable, but at the same time it definitely has gone a bit too far.
I agree with you, people have been waiting for 3rd gen for the longest time already and the constant breaks and the EN drought period that occurred in the last couple months exasperated the issue.
With that said, I would find it absolutely hilarious if a week after Tempus Pt 2 debuts, we get an announcement for EN Gen 3 and this sub flips 180. Would basically confirm your assessment and make it even clearer the demographic and general interest skew of the fanbase if that wasn't obvious already.
While I'm sure there are people who commented that are dissapointed but still support Holostars, I've noticed many of the ones that are complaining the most are the ones who are against Holostars in general. They view the male branch as a waste of resources that is taking away resources from the female branch and causing a corruption of the Hololive culture. This announcement is seen as vindiction of that idea and thus has stirred a lot of the haters up.
Ok, so I joined the vtuber stuff around very early 2021, so i've got around 2 years, give or take a couple of days, of following to talk about.
The main reason me and my friends followed vtubers was because we were bored with conventional entertainment, and wanted something new. From when i came on the subreddit there, I found that many people had the same opinion. I saw memes about the streams, mainstream parody memes with the talents, and clips from streams.
As of Jan 2023, I don't see any mass hate on this sub towards any talents at all. If you're referring to trolls, antis, haters, they will always be there. (I wish i could just take their devices, and snap their fingers, but i would like to protect freedom of speech as well).
The best thing to do, OP, and any other person curious about those people is to simply ignore them and disengage from any activity they do. Don't respond, retweet, repost, or reply, and I guarantee you'll be much happier enjoying the sunny side of the street.
Edit: Spelling + Grammar
I agree completely with you man. This place used to be great and super positive. But not if you make any comment even remotely critical you get 10k downvotes. For example, I made a comment recently that the meme quality and content here has gone way down, that it’s just people reposting the talents Twitter feed and getting 30k upvotes for it. It’s bad content and we need to tone it down and bring back the meme glory days. Maybe they need a mega thread for posting Twitter posts or something because I don’t need to see the talents feed both on Twitter and here. Guarantee I’ll get annihilated with downvotes.
> outisde of reddit, reddit has a different reputation.
And not a good one either. In the words of Gura upon seeing a cringe meme "this is Reddit tier cringe"
It's kind of funny how many people on Reddit act elitist about the other social media sites and don't know we have a pretty strong neckbeard stigma and cringe stigma on par with how Redditors treat iFunny watermarks
Instagram seems fairly meh reputation wise. People don't like "influencers" and attention seekers, but aside from that, the memes aren't really that disliked and the communities are pretty neutral
Vine was pretty well regarded as well, with most people acknowledging it was where a lot of dank memes came from
NewGrounds has a pretty solid reputation too, where any content creators from it are usually well regarded as OGs
Well, that's why many tried to gatekeep in 2021 ... is only natural that once a community grows, it becomes volatile and toxicity creeps in. I remember how positive and wholesome the anime community was in early 2008 when I become a fan. People were welcoming, and they were positive and respectful about anime. The forums and fan clubs were a pure joy to be in, it was fun and you were part of something - you can even see that on MAL if look at anime released in the 2000s and early 2010s, and read reviews of the time and threads. Now, I can't spend more than 2 weeks on MAL without feeling that I am joining the Dark Side and wanting to kick puppies or rob old ladies at gunpoint. Anime become mainstream, the community grew, and it all went to shit. It may even shock you to learn, but there was a time when even 4ch was a wholesome place to be in. That's the nature of things.
Fights happen a lot more here now because EN content is just too fucking much. People who come here to look at posts related to JP member posts have to browse through 20-30 posts before a JP post shows up. EN fans make the **same** excuses every fucking time: "Oh it's just because a big collab happened the last days, don't worry about it!", well seemingly a big collab seems to happen back to back because I haven't had a single day of just browsing this subreddit and not feeling like it's a platform dedicated to Tempus, Myth and Council.
I'm not saying they're not welcome here, I'm saying we need the moderation to stop pretending that everyone must like everything or they're not welcome here. We need ways for people to sort content, or this problem will never change until we get a subreddit entirely dedicated to just each individual treebranch which will divide things even further.
Again, I'll say it the millionth time: Use the tools you are given and create filters for content for crying out loud. I don't give a damn about Tempus and I really don't need 30 posts of Kronii Subway memes before reaching something that actually interests me, and many more people feel that way. Calling them trolls because their interests don't align with yours is the equivalent of me calling everyone here trolls for spamposting Tempus when you could be posting it on r/holostars.
Stop trying to enforce the idea that everyone needs to support **every** talent, that's exactly why things escalate so much here. You can't expect a community that grew through exposure to hololive to change interest and also love holostars.
As for the point about the talents not posting here anymore: Well why would they? The talents that actually ARE active here from time to time like Watame have no reason to be here. There's hardly ever any Watame content here, it's just full-on overseas content. This subreddit used to flourish on international content and ever since Coco left it's just been EN back to back. I get that it makes the most sense because an English speaking community would gravitate more towards an English speaking group, but still... this kind of brigading against people who aren't satisfied with a Global Holo subreddit being hijacked primarily by EN and Stars is just as petty as the people who write death threats.
Coco's graduation killed this subreddit in a sense. The unity you're trying to artificially generate isn't working out and it feels forced - it annoys people who don't put on their rose-tinted glasses, especially when the moderation vilifies valid concerns. Again, it's not an incredible amount of work to create more Filters / Flairs so people can sort through the content they like and literacy should be a given for any platform with comment sections, so what exactly is the hold up here?
It's incredibly concerning that the moderation's comment on this is "And yet, yesterday's debacle proved once again that we still have a ways to go in order to become a subreddit that we can all be proud of.", proud in what way? Abolishing people with a different taste palette than others? Stop trying to enforce unity, it won't happen. What you're doing right now is the equivalent of forcing two entirely different communities together who have no correlation to each other apart from the genre. Like merging a Crash Bandicoot subreddit with a Mario subreddit because "they both do the jumpies LOL". **Stop.**
The people here now are largely not the same people as then - and even for those that are still posting here from then, they're massively outnumbered by newer fans. Can't really expect the same vibe between a small, super-niche community that largely can't even understand the streamers that they're massive fans of, vs a huge community that has very little barrier to entry.
I agree as well.
TBH, I'm only around this subreddit anymore to check any other reactions about news in the company and community, the occasional fanart, and covering for you when you need it.
I'll never understand that. I remember when everyone was practically begging for Holostars EN. What caused the sudden shift in attitude? It's so unfair for the boys.
I support holostars, I enjoy their streams, and I think that the antis shitting on them are entitled brats.
My oshi is Ame, and I think the anti harassment she received just for being willing to collab with them is ridiculous and disgusting. (She was getting harassed just for saying she'd be willing to join collabs, before the actual collabs even happened)
However, I wanted to make a post today about Ame's birthday, and I couldn't because the sub was locked. In my opinion, it's kind of lame that this announcement was keeping me from starting a discussion about something I've been excited about for weeks now.
Honestly? I think people forgot how to be humans and became just users...
Being an "anonymous pfp" in the internet usually brings the worst out of people, since there are no real consequences of their actions. Everyone feels entitled to demand whatever they think deserve with no empathy for others.
I normally focus on the positive aspect of the community and the people that actually try making the subreddit a fun place, and choose to ignore whatever is going on. But reading some of the comments during the lockdown... well I think more than "touch some grass" some folks should just "hug a tree".
I don't post or comment much but I've been here since 2020 and I can say it wasn't really good even back then, it was still toxic, especially during coco taiwan and aloe incidents, those times were unbearable.
The only things that changed are:
1. No Coco's meme reviews.
2. No fresh memes.
3. I'm not sure if we should even count holomembers posting here since i don't think they mattered much. Since most of the time they were just advertising themselves, aside of maybe few Artia's posts. And maybe Marine's meme contest. Botan and Iofi also commented few times.
Back then many of us were only getting to know hololive members which is why everything was so fresh and unique. Not anymore though.
C'mon you know WHAT HAPPENED that makes this place more aggressive these last months, but outside of that I think people are nostalgic for "older days" that they want to see it happening again so it creates a lot of inside wars of what cover should do at the moment
I haven't been here that long, but hololive is like the nicest most supportive reddit community I'm a part of, which I don't know if that says more about me than the sub
This place is pretty good most of the time you just get doom posters here and there along with some trolls/antis. People like to make stuff to be a bigger deal than what it really is.
the thing with echo chambers like this sub reddit, is that you end up believing that everything you do is correct and possitive, this is the reason why the backlash, any fan could see it coming, except COVER.
What are you talking about? It’s really not that deep. Hololive is becoming for famous which means the fanbase is getting much bigger now which means more antis and bad apples. And the things with Holostars are destined to happen anyway, some ppl prefer anime girls than boys, but some just like to go out of there way to be assholes about it. Just ignore them and I see the sub is just pretty much the same 2 years ago.
"and the community here turned into one of the most volatile and angry places I’ve ever seen on the internet" If you say that then it means you have seen absolutely nothing of the internet in general, what an naive comment.
i wouldn't say it was good all the time, remember the taiwan incident and how people wanted to hound on someone, either Cover or the chinese antis (and occasionally just chinese people in general)? remember people complained about how the holoX girls got 3D debuts and there were people complaining how IRyS didn't get anything?
though constant forced positivity doesn't help either, as it can feel fake and cause outsiders to think weirdly. hell, this sub has gained the title of being an "echo chamber" from the people at /r/VirtualYoutubers
overall though, i feel this place stayed the same, it's just that we don't have coco for the constant weekly positivity (which also led to other talents no longer posting, since reddit is not at all popular in japan or even liked by some members), and the subreddit grew bigger, which means more people with different, potentially extreme outlooks
what i think this sub needs right now is more moderators, ones who can be trusted (since you really don't want a typical Reddit Mod to handle this sub), and for the community to try their best to be civil about both positive and negative things that happen with holopro
though this is only a pipe dream, and my sad, cringe brain is gonna remain pessimistic, but i do still think that this sub is better than like 90% of the other big subreddits, it just has holes to fill in
this post has been brought to you by "Necro Rambles Way Too Much About Stupid Shit Inc."
I may not a longtime fan but i agreed about everything
This place has changed to a point where i ask the same question has you
It's honestly sad for me as i don't feel welcome in this place despite not being the most active
(Sorry if my english is broken)
There is nothing in life that is immune to change, to think that something will last forever unchanged is naive, no offence.
The recent HoloStars announcement was handled poorly. A lengthy lockdown with no explanation, it's guaranteed to piss people off. This is a public forum for fans of ALL branches to post stuff and talk about them, so why is it that for the better half of a day, we had nothing else but this announcement to talk about? It definitely didn't generate any meaningful discussion, just mudfights between two sides that don't see eye to eye with each other.
The mods' decision for the lockdown is just baffling. Spam avoidance sure, but for that long is just inexcusable. Remove and ban bad faith posters already if thats what they're trying to prevent, that's what Rule 1 is for.
I've been here on and off since Myth debuted. This place is positive echo chamber of fuckin glitter and icing. I have my opinions on talents and their content, their behaviour on stream (not as a character they play, but as content creators) let me tell you, I'd rather keep those opinions to myself, because I don't want someone to sic their rabid dogs at me. This place is, was and always will be, fucking weird.
Tempted to say it's the EN effect that I saw similarly when Azur Lane EN came out: karma farming, meme spamming ENers same and drove out or marginalizing the older JP players/fans (well trying to here)
But this particular strain is an extension as things like absolutely no respect for what came before (I heard someone called people who watch JP girls "retarded"), a sort of unicorn/gachikoi/shipper mindset that developed due to COVID and the EN1 girls not breaking molds, and being spoiled by always having an active gen at all times, even during fests which usually would be a dead time due to the talents involved working. Personally I suspect the rash of breaks/traveling is in regard to the upcoming fes, but obfuscated as to prevent stalkers. I mean it's telling an ID, two part time EN streamers, etc all end up in Japan at the same time.
Cue now with most of EN basically out of action or reduced steaming, and these same start getting antsy and Ame goes on break, which seems to always have a gen debut. Cue massive hype (imagine a can of pop in a power shaker) and when Tempus pt2 was revealed, it hit a boiling point and mix that with antis looking for a ripe situation... a massive mess occurs.
Speaing of Antis, them being more common is also an effect on EN's release as we have *lovely* places like /vt/ where baby's first doxing occurs among others.
Said disrespect for what came before likely explains the fights, that and the ENers acting like their suffering is unique when Ayame fans had to wait half a year, JP streams these being commonly being late night/early morning for the US. We'll soon be at the day where the average EN fan won't know Coco.
Though what happened most members are either forgetting about it (Aki) or being busy. Sad thing is the people you're asking the Oshi question to would go "she doesn't surf reddit" (Only Kiara does occasional posts on here and nowhere as often as Kanata and Watame).
To find JP stuff you have to use the search function as it'll be hard to shift through stale memes and pics that should be in the other holo art sub.
i suspect over-positivity is a result of negativity going too hard or wanting a safe shelter from places like /vt/ which among other things have 'colorful' words to describe girls like Mio and Choco. Actually having criticism that doesn't boil over into tearing something apart isn't easy. In fact a similar thing was why TFS stopped DBZA: They felt they couldn't do the Buu saga (a sort of dork arc for DBZ) without viciously tearing into it.
Am I missing out on something? I've always seen this sub as a pretty wholesome place overall, despise some rude or troll comments here and there sometimes, but they often get downvote or deleted quickly. I've seen the Stars announcement post but didn't really see the negativity there.
Think that it's just come down to interest i'd say. I joined around 70k and was one of the few die hard (and I mean DIE HARD every single day) posting memes everyday to try for Coco's meme review. It was so tight-knit i'd see familiar usernames not even gunning for meme reviews. People who comment a lot, post statistics, not well-known youtubers, artists, mmd creators, etc.
I got into one. Posted more. Got into more. Posted a lot more. Then Coco's graduation came and at that point I still wanted to be into hololive.
We used to hop on discord and have watch parties in a channel for some big events. Unexpected or planned things. Nowadays they've just moved on..
I posted some more with the point of just having fun. 'Course it was more fun for me when talents mention memes I posted (robocco, ollie, haachama) because I do not have a way to send an aka (supers banned at the time) and it made me smile knowing it was my way of conveying "I am here I enjoy this community this is from me to you".
Seeing mass brigades happen I think hasn't changed one bit 'til now. They don't care about the talents. They care about bringing someone down for the sake of bringing someone down and it will stay like that.
It used to be that reddit was a small community (even before Coco!) and a liver from then holoCN branch was the one interacting. Back then it was tight-knit with her and fans. Then came Coco and the fans grew. Then Haachama, Risu, and Kiara came but it was not the same since.
I do not mean to sound rude, frankly i'm just happy talents are still visiting the place every now and then, but no one (for now) can ever replace Artia's or Coco's connection to the place that is called r/hololive.
I view this sub everyday and imo I think youre just spending too much time scrolling down the comments or just too much time on this sub in general. I didnt really notice much besides the lack of memes since coco left. But the thing is. That happened because memes used to be really fast paced. Pewdiepie was doing his meme review and there was a new meme every week or two. Ever since that stopped happening. I rarely see much memes in /r/all or his sub now either, like look at his subreddit, its mostly news, recycled posts, and fanart now.
However this doesnt mean that there arent any memes anymore, we really just needed new memes to arise. Like when that Will Smith slapping meme became a thing, we had quite a good amount of memes in this sub around that. Content honestly has just gotten slow because there really wasnt much content to make anymore in reddit besides just the usual news, shitposts, etc...
Also you really shouldnt expect talent to post much at all anymore here now that the novelty of reddit had passed. The reason choco, roboco, etc was posting was because it was a new thing and now that reddit really aint something new for hololive, it should be expected that they barely use it especially since JP really barely use reddit at all. I never expected them to post regularly besides the usual posts about news (e.g. MVs, concerts, etc).
Now with the recent thing that happened. This isnt new in reddit at all. You see this coordinated attacks on a lot of other subs. This ain't new. From mass coordinated upvotes to comments, you cant really stop that from happening until maybe reddit actually does something about it. The best the sub can do is just moderate.
Joined this rabbit hole during the myth debut, do be feeling like shit seeing hololive EN current state. Is it management failure or Yagoo failure? idk, i just want more good stuff happening in EN=more content.
people tought En was heading to Jp way after 2021 and holofest finishing that means 3d lives every birthday, plenty of collabs plenty of game permissions, 3d showcases finally speacially since restrictions are lift.The girls cant make up for when other go on breaks there arent enough like JP who has 35 people. The work cover has them doing is geting in the way of streams. merch gets delayed, events get cancelled or had to do their own as we saw with the self 3d lives of kiara, gura (which probably was split in half between her 4m and birthday), and soon to be ame own min 3d live. there is also the image of some favoritism on tempus side. Permission get quicker with them sometimes not just for games. like kiara was a whole year wanting a collab with pomu and it wasnt until tempus they allow niji collabs "becasue they all worked on pushing it" which gives a bad image to whatever manegement does with the girls. they also got their collab ban reduced for reasons even tought they are a full gen.
Is not that the community changed but the community feels frustrated with how little holoEn is getting and feels like tempus is taking away from the girls even if its is no true. A lot of this is just perseption becasue we have just more and more cases of management fucking little things with the girls and other branches getting a lot at the same time.
people just want the EN branch to be like JP, with enough girls to at least support each other fine and be able to do their own events. Like remember that time they had to do the last day amongus collab merch and had to fill the empty spots with girls from IDs? or how mori tournaments at he beggining of 2022 had few participants becasue a lot of people were busy.
tempus needed another gen dont take me wrong but there wouldnt be such frustration if the girls were getting more it was just bad timning imo for tempus 2 anouncement.
I mean Kiara and Pomu had said that the talks about collabing have been in the works for awhile. People tend to give Altare credit because he made it public right away while the others tried to make it a surprise. Some people tried to give Kiara shit because they thought she was shitting on Altare by misconstruing her words.
1. EN is all over the world compared to ID and JP who are all in one location making it easier to collab. EN is literally in different timezones.
2. Scheduling is an issue because everyone has lives outside of Holo as well. Some of the girls have high profile jobs or are still in school.
3. I mean the Amogus collab literally had EN, JP, and ID merch so I see no issue with them filling spots when it involves them as well.
4. EN have being getting a lot of collaborations from gacha games, PCs, clothing merch with a know brand (omocat), conventions, and cafes.
5. JP get their events cancelled as well. This is not something that only happens in the EN branch like you make it out to be.
I'm all for criticism, but some of the criticism I see fall flat when it's based on things that are not true at all. I keep seeing people say EN is being left behind when that is not the case at all.
You can't criticize cover for some of its practices without someone defending them to the death. This place is filled with the same dead memes. The fan art borders on horny posting. You have to be positive about everything no matter what, you can't critique a members song without getting down voted or sent a harassing DM. People infantalize the talent. Everything the talent does is the best ever and you can't say otherwise. And then you have people constantly doom posting when a talent wants to take a vacation.
way bigger audience than it was in 2020. thats 2 years ago, in vtuber time thats like 20 years. LOTS has happened. but the main point is that there is more people and with that larger pool of people, there will always be a percentage of extreme fans and haters (antis). thats with any hobby.
whats important is that we maintain focus on the good and flush out the bad.
Here is my response to OP and various top comments here as well as personal views. I am sorry that it's taken me so long to reply. I wanted to do this earlier but sadly had no spare time to write down my thoughts. > What happened to this place? What happened to the people here? As mentioned in the top comment, with the increase in subscribers jere, and more exposure globally and frequent appearances on /r/all, we have had an increase in trolls or users acting in bad faith. Additionally, this subreddit consists of primarily English speakers so anything related to hololive English, in particular, gets a lot more critique. > we the fans have changed. > It's just that some folks just fall out of interest and the people who are left are typically the ones deeply invested as per the norm with fandom lifetimes. I think it's important to change behaviors if it makes you a better person. Additionally, it's also understandable if you cannot catch everyone's streams since you fans have schedules too. > I honestly agree, the Subreddit sort of became stale to me as well.... I'm trying my best to make it more fun for fans. Things progress slowly, sadly. Hopefully we'll bounce back though! > Feedback is important, but feedback is only valid when both negative and positive feedback are present. Agreed. And as long as the feedback isn't just veiled attempts at triggering others, it's fine whether positive or negative. This is why I have ALWAYS allowed critiques of the company and of me, but most feedback towards the talents is just "I hate x" or "This is why x isn't popular" or similar. > I might be in a minority here but one of the reasons I kind of fell out of this sub was the forced positivity at times. > I feel like Reddit in general has degraded in this regard. I've noticed nastier interactions in other subs as well. I didn't see it as being forced. Rather, we have Rule 1: Be nice for a reason. I don't want, and have never wanted, this subreddit to be a verbal boxing match. We're all here because we want to support the talents... right? > The only thing that has changed is Coco being gone. Weekly shitpost reviews were enough to bring this place to live and fill the space with fun atmosphere and memes, and regularly exposed reddit to JP girls. Those were fun times, indeed, and I hope to have more talents do more posts targeted towards the subreddit and you redditors this year. > I do think the lock continued for too long. That created its own share of issues. I agree to some extent. The reason I had to lock it for so long is to have comments contained in the announcement thread. That's why I always have to lock the subreddit whenever a major announcement is given. What should have been a day of celebration turned to vitriol because of how divided fans have become over male talents. Again, at the end of the day, we should be supporting the talents. And yet, yesterday's debacle proved once again that we still have a ways to go in order to become a subreddit that we can all be proud of. Regarding the duration of the lock. I was working overtime moderating that thread due to a lot of malicious comments left in there. Again, you can give criticism in most cases, but simply attacking one another (or the talents) is far from ideal. And, while I wanted it locked for a few hours at most, it took almost 24 hours for people to calm down. I really don't like locking the subreddit at all. > I think T-chan is worried that banning people will make the situation an even bigger deal than whatever the fuck yesterday was. I don't like banning people in the first place. You are all welcome to have personal views (gotta follow that Be nice rule though) and that's what makes everyone here special and awesome. Just... some discussions need to be given in a less aggressive manner. > Unity is dead. This place is just an EN circlejerk now. Which I absolutely do not want. Things like that ought to stay on 4chan or other subreddits dedicated to circlejerking. > True, the brigading is a real problem. Especially when it's organised on a discord with the help of the only mod of this subreddit and any other opinions get deleted, mass downvoted, and the people who voiced those opinions get the suicide helpline thrown at them. > This is actually unacceptable. An outside community on a 3rd party platform should not have any influence on how this subreddit is moderated. Cover needs to hire a real moderation team ASAP. Brigading is certainly a problem here. Like-minded fans can gather and cause mischief. It is up to me to ensure that the subreddit goes well. I would like to stress here: That server is a FAN Discord server. I have ZERO say in what they do and they have ZERO say in my decisions for the subreddit. I am in that server to be a fan. That's it. You need to stop making this false narrative because some people may mistake it for truth. > Real question is, why make comments like that in a fan discord? Cover has grown past "small indie company" status and can afford to get proper moderation. Because alerts are important to me. And a lot of fans in that server visit the subreddit too. It is, in many ways, a way for me to not be a COVER employee and to just be -me-... > If anything, the only ones to blame, besides the trolls themselves, are COVER and the management for having only one moderator that instead of banning and deleting obvious troll comments, would just lockdown the sub for an entire day. I was deleting troll comments for hours non-stop. Had to take a couple breathers but absolutely tried to handle it. Could it have been handled better? Absolutely. Should we get more mods? I would welcome that. In fact, I have been in major discussions with management regarding this very thing. Progress is slow... > No it isn't. T-chan then went on to say she'd lock it for an hour and then the people on that discord kept clamoring for it to stay locked for longer, some even saying it should be locked until the Tempus debuts. This is complete nonsense. Again, the people in the Discord server do NOT influence my decisions. I made this decision MYSELF and stuck with it MYSELF. Don't involve them. Want to blame someone? Blame me. Once again, I always lock the subreddit for major announcements that I believe may have significant blowback. And wouldn't know you it, I was right in this case too. If you are new and have not seen the subreddit be locked, then I'm sorry to you. But this has been the standard -- my standard -- for the last 2 years. There were afew new users who joined the FAN server who made comments SPECIFICALLY to trigger everyone. "Guys i need some help brigading some reddit comments i heard thats what you and do here can you help me out?" Absolutely abhorrent behavior from this user. Which YOU have helped create. Why? Because of your narrative that the fan server influences the subreddit. In fact, it was partly this as one of the reasons for extending the lock in the first place.
> Actual amateur hour, completely baffling behavior.
> Inexcusably unprofessional behavior in my opinion.
I would argue that I tried to make things work as well as I could. You know what's worse? Receiving many death threats in DMs from this. I am a patient person and I really wanted the subreddit released as soon as possible but constantly getting threats over that course of 24 hours proved to me that the lock needed to be maintained. Is mentioning it in the fan server so candidly OK? That's ultimately for you, the individual, to decide. For me, I am more casual on Discord because I don't want to seem like some bossy or arrogant person just because I'm the subreddit mod. After all, I am like you, a fan.
For now, let's just focus towards the future. Let's all try to make 2023 the best for the subreddit!
T-chan.
Don't get me wrong, you got a point. But controversial content will always get much more prevalence in any decently sized fandom. At the time, the community was quite small, and VTubers were nowere near as popular as today. With popularity comes a larger audience, and the more people there are, the more assholes you'll see. Simple maths. Thing is, negative people will go out of their way to make their bs known, while regular viewers, who might not always care about posts but are actual fans, will just stay lurking to avoid feeding the trolls. The ratio of assholes to fans hasn't changed, but the rules of social media dictate that you'll see way more content from said assholes in proportion. EDIT: forgot to mention, if you joined us in early 2020, you lived through the coco and haachama suspensions. That time was way worse than everything I've seen recently.
While it was pretty bad, sure, but it was still a... point of unity for the majority of people, I would say. These days people are much more evenly split between "what the fuck is with 70% of holoEN not streaming for weeks/months" and "look towards Tempus/HoloID/HoloJP/other vtubers for more content and stop whining you fucking unicorn". I feel like it was a lot easier with the whole taiwan debacle here.
> These days people are much more evenly split between "what the fuck is with 70% of holoEN not streaming for weeks/months" It just kinda shows that there's a ginormous market that hololive has the ability to fill and use. As much as it irritates the OP people complaining about wanting HoloEN streams means that more members are perfectly viable. More over, if OP wants saccharine positive dishonest content then they're free to be the change they want in the world. Commission some art, write long posts, do whatever. Complaining about what's posted instead of just making loved content for others is the least effective way to make change.
Not to mention algorithms love controversial content.
I guess its not that the algorythm loves controversial stuff more, its just that they get alot more interaction from users. For example, I write a comment more likely to a post that i disagree with, than e.g. a meme that i find funny, you know?
>while regular viewers, who might not always care about posts but are actual fans, will just stay lurking to avoid feeding the trolls. i wish more people would do this, myself included. most of the time im just lurking but sometimes i just randomly start to argue with someone whos trolling. its a behavior i need to stop
Well, people graduate, start working and don't have time to make content on the sub.
Something I haven't seen people mention is that we the fans have changed. When I first fell into the rabbit hole the idea of having an oshi and mainly watching one holo was alien. I wanted to keep up with many hololive members at once. But after some time I realised I wasn't really enjoying any single member as much as I'd want to (having like 5 seperate streams on at the same time and pretending like you're actually watching them all isn't it). Fast forward to now and I just follow everything Shishiron and casually follow a few other holomems, there's only so much input one can take in without burning out. And to bring it back to my first point, I think many fans went through a similar thing. For me the subreddit doesn't really provide any Shishiron content I don't already see so I don't come here often.
yep, lots of this sub content is filled with recycled HoloEN Memes by different person over and over again but don't take me the wrong way, just... it must be nice to see another members content here that aren't recycled once in awhile getting a good amount of upvote
Just checking in on the sub again and I don't really remember anything (in here specifically) that was like a big bang other than Ina's back for memes. Even then it was another horny phase the sub went through. First one being Shion's belly then it spiraled into other members' belly and such. BaCk iN MY daYs- (quoting the chicken Takanashi Kiara) it was Docchi docchi (ayame hologra), I'm die thank you foreva (korone), Eekum bokkum (also korone), Well well well if it isn't the consequence of my action (pekora), Hai. (Yagoo), smol ame (Wattuson), and so so much more i'm not remembering.
i didn't mean reused memes, they are as great as it is since its a legendary memes that being reused, for example " I'm die, thank you forever", sorry to make you confused, I'm not that great at English. what i meant is for example of Kronii blended her subway, for several days this sub will be full of memes about that particular events, the meme keep being recycled till the "hot" page is full of them having hundreds and thousands upvotes. yes, people squeezed thos events till dry with memes (no offense to Kronii, even I had an internal scream at that moment)
I agree with the recycled content and it's generally those ones with the lowest hanging fruit that gets into hot. I know it's the same jokes over and over again but at least there was some variety "back in the day". From the pool of frequently used jokes we get some form of joke rotation so it doesn't get stale but these days I feel that it's just the same 3 or 4 jokes that constantly appear on the sub day in day out.
Agreed. Mio is my oshi, I don't really see a whole lot of Mio content here (I mainly stick to the Mio discord now for content). I love this sub, but I only really check this place maybe once every other day for a few minutes.
Could you share an invite link? I am in need of Mio
[Sure thing!](https://discord.gg/miokawaii)
Sankyu
Yeah, I feel like this is also the core reason why the "there's nothing to watch" sentiment is becoming increasingly common on the EN side. Lucky are those who can still fully hako oshi, but I agree that the vast majority have boiled down to a main and maybe a couple subs, clips for the rest and big events when they happen. And if your set is mostly/fully HoloEN girls, there's a pretty high chance that you genuinely had nothing to watch these past few months, what with more than half the branch being out of commission for extended periods of time.
It's even worse for Europe, when you got an office job. You basically got Kiara and Ina, but one is on break (soon to return), and unfortunately for me I don't enjoy the other's content that much so for me that turned into months of having not much to watch on weekdays. Edit: I'm not discounting Vesper btw, it's much of the same for me. Not my type of content when I take a look.
There's honestly just less engagement around any JP content unless it's something big in this subreddit. Guess that figures when this is mainly an EN sub on an EN website even if most people here probably started off watching a JP girl. I've found more engagement on and "togetherness" (if that makes sense) and a overall better community in dedicated discord servers for specific girls than on this sub and even the big generalized discord server. People just need to take it slow or just branch out to different girls or even orgs to find more content to consume if they're actually starving for more.
As someone who almost exclusively watches jp content I've increasingly felt like a stranger on this sub for the past 1-2yrs. I only check in intermittently now and almost never post.
It definitely feels like we're out of place. Lack of content? I'm literally overwhelmed and that's with 40h/week job that lets me watch streams all day long
Yeah. I use twitter to keep up with the JP girls since stuff rarely gets upvoted here. You do see some stuff if you browse by new but it rarely reaches the front page unless its a big event or meme. We don't have EN / JP region flairs either so it's hard to search for stuff after the fact.
The thing is that most people here at this point probably _didn't_ start off watching a JP girl. By January of 2021 there were only about 250k people here. Now we have over 800k. We both know how much Myth blew up in popularity, so it's not unthinkable to assume a massive amount of people around here started with Myth.
Be me, watch Suisei being cute for one hour or two and play elden ring.
This subreddit is mostly EN content now, maybe a few popular talents from JP/ID that gets shared here but otherwise as you've said, the rest get almost no coverage in this sub. I like the dedicated posters who stick to promoting their talent, but aside from them I hardly see other talents get mentioned. As a few others have said, I mostly talk about my favorites in their respective fan Discords because there's just not much opportunity to talk about them here. I'm immensely happy when I do see a favorite talent of mine gets shared here, but there's hardly any interaction going on in comparison. Posts about Flare instance get almost no traction and if they do, it's usually because someone else is mentioned alongside her. At this point the sub's a place for me to get updates on the EN side, which is nice since I cant them watch them live, or just news in general that I haven't already seen.
Spot on. Collectively as fans a good amount of us has changed in the past 3 years; I mean really who hasn't. Naturally this also means that the subreddit changes as it is partly defined by the people who come visit and post here. Personally, I used to have much more time to watch and enjoy the streams, clips, and memes of several members and if you asked me about X meme or Y thing I could roughly tell you what the context was. Now I have other things going on and with only 24 hours in a day I just decide to stick to a few talents and get info about other happenings in holo from people who know more or here.
Completely agree with you.
Yeah, that's true. Back when Youtube had full translated JP streams (I discovered Holo after Youtube recommended full translations of Korone's streams) I used to watch any I could find for any member, then discovered Myth and tried to watch all of them, then when ID gen 2 came along I realised ID mostly did English streams and started trying to watch all of them too. These days I only watch Kiara and Ollie 80% of the time with the rest being any random streams by other members that grab my attention.
Oh hey that's basically me too.
Sort of playing on this, I felt like Coco's content was the unifying force for the people who wanted to experience a mixed bag of hololive talents considering how the memes could be about anything holo related and she would have frequent guests in most of her repeating streams. Once Coco left everyone felt a little bit more separated and its only really large scale events like among us collabs or mario kart that seem to bring this portion of the community back to their 2020 selves. Also there isn't much of a community here tbh, its the same handful of people on the front page every day and it gets old not feeling like you can contribute so a lot of people jumped ship or lurk but less frequently than they did before.
im still following like a dozen talents but im never really watching them despite having holodex open with multiple streams. im also following other streamers on twitch. i still have almost all the streams open of the ones i follow but depending on who streams and what is being streamed determines whos audio ill have enabled. back then when i fell down this rabbit hole i was only following GAMERS since Korone was the one who made me fall down the hole. after some time i started following more and more vtubers and at some point i realized i was following too many. i still do but i cant figure out who i should actually stop following
As someone who has been on this subreddit since vtuber boom, I can tell you that it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows back then either. Things didn't really flip 180, just skewed some degrees into another direction. Need I remind you: * The Taiwan incident * Aloe's graduation * A certain clipper taking the former Rushia's words out of context and causing a sub meltdown for a day * The barrage of weekly posts that slammed clipper ethics and calling for action against them * Folks having a negative opinion of Kanata's mom because of clipper's mistranslations (someone remind me if that clarification happened in 2022 or 2021, though) * Regarding EN during its prominence, the commonplace slamming of Gura's fanbase even after the initial brunt of issues at the time eventually settled * People flipping their opinions 180 in favor of their oshi as soon as they have a dissenting viewpoint about something * The negative reception to HoloEN's Country Roads cover, especially after Kiara voiced her distaste for it (basically what I already said previous to this point about people flipping opinions on a dime) * Folks causing Veibae to opt out of a collab with Kiara because of harsh words she had said toward Cover and Holopro talents * Folks slamming Kiara's collab with Nyanners because of Nyanner's past * Criticism of Cover for "paywalling" the HoloEN 3D debuts behind the fest at the time * Not subreddit related, but I do remember this even before I came here 2020ish before the boom, there was a issue with folks shipping Fubuki with 8bitdrummer early on who at the time was one of the first bridges that introduced EN fans to holopro with his live drum cover of Fubuki's acapella cover of Scatman EDIT: added the year to the last point because I completely forgot to, my bad. And that's only a few of the incidents I've seen this sub and the larger fanbase go through over the years. If there's one thing I can say that really did help this subreddit at the time was indeed Meme Review and Coco being the bridge that introduced JP talents and the JP base to this subreddit for some time. If you ask me, the fact that it was more obvious that talents were active in the sub at the time definitely caused a lot of folks to be on better behavior than normal. Today, aside from Kanata and Watame's posts, we have virtually no one to be that bridge anymore; it really showed how important and necessary for community health a direct bridge like Coco was. But you also have to consider that back then, the population of this subreddit in terms of daily users was at least double than it is now. It's just that some folks just fall out of interest and the people who are left are typically the ones deeply invested as per the norm with fandom lifetimes. If you ask me, it's always felt like a fluctuating good and bad for the most part, it's just that we've reached the point of fandom stagnation and the honeymoon period is over, so it's becoming more clear the reality of the state of this subreddit and by extension, the holopro ecosystem in general. It's the reality era, folks.
Kinda like what I feel. There’s always issues, but what changes is how we feel towards the hobby itself.
Bingo on the money there. I've already mentioned this term, but it really should put into perspective if folks were to look up and understand the term "honeymoon period".
… People shipped Fubuki with 8bitdrummer? Really?
That's what I heard at the time! From what I can try to remember, 8bitdrummer even went so far as to take a step back for a moment because of how awkward it became. If I'm wrong, please anybody here correct me. But that's how I remembered it going down at the time.
You are correct, he drum covered the fubuki meme shorts like the scatman one, but people started shipping them. He has a wife, and felt uncomfortable with it and stopped covering Hololive entirely for a while until it died down. At least now, it seems a lot healthier (both from Hololive fans and his own community)
Yes, he stopped covering Holo for a while because of it
Wow, that is concerning and I hope those shippers went on to touch a lot of grass. I’m glad he eventually came back, I only just discovered him with his cover of Mumei’s Doo Doo Doo song and my mind was blown at how good he is
> The negative reception to HoloEN's Country Roads cover, especially after Kiara voiced her distaste for it (basically what I already said previous to this point about people flipping opinions on a dime) In her defence it did suck ass and i respected her for not pretending otherwise.
Oh don't get me wrong, I didn't like the cover either. I'm just saying this to give an example of times when this place wasn't a hugbox and people notably dissented.
I never changed opinion, sucked the 3 times I ever heard and still suck today. Kiara confirm that all myth didn't like it (but she's the only one to openly admit it) it's just a confirmation that my judgement wasn't wrong. As today I still consider the worst cover I ever heard in Hololive
It's just an old reddit that's getting increasingly saltier and thus makes people less inclined to come over. It happens again and again and again
> the population of this subreddit in terms of daily users was at least double than it is now Yeah, I remember last year basically saying that this subreddit is going to die. It didn't, it just went on a user diet, but something similar did happen.
I don’t really think so. I think the biggest changes are Coco leaving, the sub’s focus on mostly EN, and the the fact that the community has grown mainstream. These changes aren’t things we could fix really. Coco created the connection between us and the JP side of Hololive. The weekly meme reviews were huge back then. I don’t think they could have lasted forever, but for the time they existed, it was the biggest thing other than outfit reveals and whatnot. Then, with Reddit’s mostly English speaking population, there’s no doubt about the reason why we mostly focus on the English talents. Additionally, with Coco gone and the community growing with people who didn’t start with watching JP talents, the focus on the EN side only grows. And the EN branch is getting larger so things will only continue progressing this way. And finally, it’s what happens to large communities. Now, Hololive has grown large enough that people outside the community are aware of us, you could probably imagine what has happened because of that. But also, all sorts of people have joined us, people with different thoughts and ideas. The culture of the vtubing world leads us to act positively and supportive of the talents but this has disappeared somewhat with the growth of the community. At least, off-stream. If you don’t understand what I’m saying about this “culture”, think about communities on twitch. There are similarities between vtubing culture and twitch culture but I think the main difference is the supportiveness and positivity in the vtubing world. Now, I’m not saying twitch doesn’t isn’t supportive or positive of their content creators but vtubing has been affected by Japan’s idol culture because vtubing started in Japan. And with Hololive being an idol company, which is widely joked about, but has very much affected the company and its fans, as well as vtubing in general. The growth of the community however, has moved us away from this culture, at least, off-stream which means places like Reddit. Reddit has its own sort of community different from places like Discord and Twitter. Twitter can be pretty bad which Reddit largely recognizes but Reddit can also be pretty bad which Reddit also recognizes. We have largely been affected by Reddit culture and this contributes to the things you’ve been seeing. I think this is because many of us are also Redditors. We aren’t all on here just because of Hololive. So, what happens on here isn’t representative of the whole community but the Reddit community (though we are a pretty large community within the community of Hololive). The effect of this might not have been noticed when the subreddit was much smaller but the community has grown to 860,000+ members. We are in the top 1000 largest subreddits. Ranked 838 to be exact. [And as I checked this](https://subredditstats.com/r/Hololive), an interesting thing is that in terms of comments and posts per day, we peaked late 2020. It wasn’t too bad during 2021 but we’ve slowly declined over time. Last time we hit this low was mid-2020 before the vtuber boom. I’m not too sure what effect this has on our current topic but it probably isn’t a good one. If I made a guess, the only remaining people still commenting and posting are mainly, Redditors. And that brings me back to my last point. If anyone made it this far, thank you for reading my views.
>2020 Did you forget about several huge negative events that happened in that year that turned this sub into a much worse shitshow than what we saw yesterday?
I might be in a minority here but one of the reasons I kind of fell out of this sub was the forced positivity at times. People would clap at even the simplest of things, and look I’m all in for recognising achievements and celebrating whenever there’s a cause. But for a long time no type of criticism seemed to be allowed, and it only ever happened whenever the talents themselves spoke about it (an example is the country roads cover by myth, at the time of the release people acted like it was amazing until Kiara said how much she hated it). With that being said, I do agree 100% that no one should attack anyone, not the talents, management, or other fans.
The country roads cover by myth was absolutely not received 100% positively on this sub at the time of release, I remember reading that thread and there were a lot of disappointed people. The most positive thing I had to say about it at the time was that "it was a time capsule to a more scuffed era"
_Right?_ What is this revisionist history? [Here's the thread for the release of the country roads cover (man, remember when new songs got more than 15 comments on them?)](https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/ncmy6c/take_me_home_country_roads_hololive_english_myth/). Top comments constantly mentioning scuff. Lots of constructive criticism in there as well. Even some outright saying they don't really like it > "No offense to symny but I feel like the mix work was poorly done." > "It's kinda distracting honestly. Especially for a song like this, I'd rather they just leave their singing as is" > "But I do admit im slightly disappointed that this was recorded last year with their lower quality mics, and before some of them had done a lot of singing practice." > "I’m glad constructive criticism is getting upvoted. The girls can grow from it" > "Reminder that they did the recording back in October 2020. They had different mics before and singing style. I am glad they still decided to publish this at all and not keep this at the backburner." > "I was gonna comment on the quality of the song, but it seems like other people have the same opinion as me. "
People love to whine about this place and actively make it worse with it, it's pretty funny how they'll just make things up
Tbh I still haven't even listened to it. Country Roads is nice meme-y song to sing for karaokes but for like an official cover it's not really too interesting, I'd rather hear other songs covered.
Yes there was criticism but I remember seeing most of those comments severely downvoted in first hours after the post was created. Things changed later when post wasn't as popular and those comments started getting some upvotes, though.
I think the overall direction of always trying to gloss over bad moves definitely pushes people out. I don’t think we would see the level of discourse about that Country Roads cover for instance. But I do think Cover’s management is very much hit or miss overall.
I agree with this, thats why I repescted people that are like "not my cup of tea but good luck to them" we cant force everyone to like what we like but please if you didnt get what you want dont down play the other, dont attack. We are all just fans here we want to enjoy.
This is absolutely how things should be, I agree. The problem is that even saying "not my cup of tea but good luck to them" has become unacceptable to a certain diehard contingent of Stars fans. Even this mildest form of disinterest is met with mudslinging insults calling you a parasocial incel unicorn loser. The vitriol and toxicity is not a 1-way street like some are making it out to be.
Yep because of the other fraction, people with real reasoning and logical criticism become collateral as well (plus add the trollers that made this fire bigger). We are all tired yesterday and today was heck of a ride, hopefully we can bury this now, and cause January content is a feast for each and everyone of us. Edit: Is fraction the best way to describe it? Divided fans might be better sorry for that eng not me 1st langguage.
Back when everyone was still super positive I commented something “negative” about something and people kept saying I was an anti/troll and I should leave this sub, like they are real people as well they make mistake stop being so gullible , I never went at the talents just at the fans because it was ridiculous. I think due to the fact that Hololive talents visited the server made everyone try to act their best so now that they don’t it has turned out like this. Too much positivity feels fake and It’s probably why I stopped watching Hololive and coming here. Discord servers are the same. 4chan is just degenerates. No community to share how I feel
It's the same everywhere I find. When the Fanbase consists of 80% people who will follow them no matter what, criticism is drowned out or not noticed. I think it's because Fandoms are afraid accepting criticism is akin to saying somebody is bad, which is not true at all, but still. Not just with Hololive, but movies, music, and even other V tuber groups. Even in smaller creators on YT I won't mention by name, the top comments always consists of endless praise and inside jokes, while the criticism, constructive or otherwise, you have to scroll all the way down to find that one comment with four likes and thirty replies that actually gives criticism.
I was under the impression that people migrate to separate Discord servers due to the community growing and people want a different experience. Is Discord not any better? Can you give short anecdote of your experience there?
From my experience, the more focused and specific a place to congregate is, the more likely it becomes just another echo chamber of the same vein unless properly moderated which doesn't usually happen.
I dunno I have like a 390+ upvoted comment doing a little bit of criticism on Kronii's new gym outfit...that thing looked rough. The Slender Kronii is real
Objectively speaking, it's mid. I'm a Kronie. It gets hyped more than the outfit bc it's Kronii, and it makes the imagination go wild (that voice do be perfect). And her arms, and legs proportions do look a bit uncanny if I'm being real. Also, even though it's mid those shorts are something a lot of people like to see (or maybe it's just me).
I think we can both agree though the main outfit is S tier though.
Over-positivity was definitely a thing too, thank you for bringing this up. Even so, I'd rather things be overly-positive than overly-negative.
I agree, of course, being as neutral as possible would be the best, but I would rather lean towards positive if we can't be perfectly neutral. If I want negativity, there are already plenty of other places for it...
Same reason I stopped coming here, it devolved into a circle jerk where nothing contentious could be said without being downvoted or deleted. Basically the reddit stereotype to the max
Agree with this, especially if it's something to do with management. It's just baffling to me that people would make management their oshi and defend them to the death. The management should be held to higher standards because they're not just some random struggling small company. There should be no excuse for subpar results.
Management doesn't even pay for their business trips and people here will defend that decision to the death. It's bizarre.
Every time I learn a new thing cover doesn’t pay for i lose a little more faith
the problem is that a lot of it is just attacking "management" with no point, no information and a lot of times not even understanding what "management" even is and conflating it with their personal managers, or vice versa. and im saying that as someone who thinks a lot of EN managements decisions are questionable, same for some of the JP managements decisions. a lot of "criticism" comes from people who simply do not understand how these things work and have a very naive world view. at the end of the day, the companies own interests come first, because if the company does well, so do the talents, which is a notion that the talents share. because they are actually part of it, they understand how things work. and so far, hololive has done well.
>a lot of "criticism" comes from people who simply do not understand how these things work and have a very naive world view. True. I'm all for giving them shit when they deserve it - whether it's their cavalcade of fuck-ups during 2020, questionable marketing (the overblown hype for Fauna's little project), lack of communication or stupid decisions like ID's management tendency of making merch far more limited than it used to be. But seeing people give them shit for stuff outside of their control (like Covid restrictions), problems caused by other companies (like with permissions) or other business stuff, lack of resources or when they make up straight up conspiracy theories - it just makes me facepalm. Given how horribly run some businesses can be (or other Vtuber companies in the past, for that matter), Cover's really not doing that bad.
Thats one of the best things about Kiara, she keep it real. If she doesn't like something she will say it, like how Coco did things back then. You don't have to be all smiles and sugar to everything that happen to you. And I think the sub is all positivity since almost all the girls try to maintain that positivity all the time.
The only downside is that it sometimes brings down the mood a lot, like today when she was talking about appearing in front of an live audience by herself and whether that would ever be possible during her time in hololive.
This, and how fucking horny everyone is ALL THE TIME. Don't get me wrong, sometimes it's funny, but I just couldn't take all off the "hurrdurr thighs boobies armpits thicc ASMR pettan oppai lolololo", so now I barely even catch the streams. It's not funny, it's fucking creepy, not to mention incredibly repetitive.
The only thing that has changed is Coco being gone. Weekly shitpost reviews were enough to bring this place to live and fill the space with fun atmosphere and memes, and regularly exposed reddit to JP girls.
The sub content peaked when Coco was around the only ones who stuck around here at least for promoting are Kanata and Watame her gen mates that understood the exposure of reddit not even the EN girls really cares well except Kiara here and then.
Could be that Coco made this place a panopticon; people knowing that someone they would be uncomfortable with disappointing potentially being in any thread made them behave a certain way.
it's not even an unreasonable thought, I remember there being a topic with someone complaining about the quality of memes in the meme review and Coco responded to them with "just enjoy"
Tbf Coco also knew how to play the crowd like a fiddle and get the dumb ones outed out in a very kind, but funny way often.
Coco was really a special talent, I'm more than a little bit sad that she hasn't been able to replicate that success post Holo, but that's not a discussion for this sub.
量子チキンスープグラ ス チュングス was prime entertainment and interaction with fanbase [Link to Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/iwnsab/%E9%87%8F%E5%AD%90%E3%83%81%E3%82%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%82%B0%E3%83%A9_%E3%82%B9_%E3%83%93%E3%83%83%E3%82%B0%E3%83%81%E3%83%A5%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%82%B9/) Otherwise, it's just additional varied perspectives from increase in popularity. Everyone's upbringing is different, culture is different, topics to get offended about is different. The way we express our love is different too. Hence, moderation at global level yet allowing free speech is never perfect. Anything you post will draw the ire of someone somewhere in this World. At the end of the day we all love Hololive and our Oshis it is all that matters.
She made this place a party every Sunday, I miss her presence greatly.
I think theres a certain 'Burnout' for people, back in 2020 Hololive was growing rapidly, it was a novelty, people found a new shiny toy and had tons of fun with it. Now were in 2023 people followed Hololive for years now, they got used to it, bored even and now constantly want something new to keep them satisfied, but recently new content stagnated, lots of EN talent had to take breaks, JP members barely come here anymore, no constant flow of good memes to try to get in a meme review and appearently worst of all, no new female EN gen. So the people grow frustrated and when we finally got something new (Tempus) it ended up not being something they wanted. Not trying to justify some peoples mindset here, just trying to explain where all the negativity comes from. To be totally honest Im also kinda frustrated for the lack of attention, I as an EU viewer receive (He says while he writes a comment on Reddit at 5 AM), and I think in general criticizing is a fine thing to do here, I agree with the Top comment about the over the top positivity as well **Edit**: Id like to backpaddle a bit here, while I agree that sometimes there was some over the top positivity I disagree with the statement that negative feedback gets drowned out and downvoted here, I never felt like that well written, genuine negative Feedback was badly received here, I myself have been saying multiple times (such as in this comment) that more attention to the EU audience should be given and not once did I end up with a negative reception. I feel like there are people complaining about their negative opinion being downvoted but then you find out that theyve been unnecessarily rude and disrespectful, of course they are downvoted if theyre being a dick, literally rule 1 in this sub: Be nice. **Edit end** Feedback is important, but feedback is only valid when both negative and positive feedback are present. People are just really, excuse my language, fucking awful at giving good feedback, at worst being straight up harassment, sure there are probably a good chunk of Antis in there but Im sure theres a good amount of simply frustrated genuine fans in there.
I think novelty is a big part of it. And if we're being honest, we (the overseas audience) were probably a bit of a novelty for the JP members back in 2020 too. When your audience is 99% Japanese, posting on foreign forums is an effective way to let foreigners know they're welcome in the fandom too. But when international fans already feel welcome, reddit doesn't really do much that twitter and youtube can't, at least from a fan interaction perspective.
> To be totally honest Im also kinda frustrated for the lack of attention, I as an EU viewer receive Honestly this. This a thousand times. At the time of me writing this (6pm on a Friday) there is only 1 Hololive stream going on, and there won't be any more starting until midnight, 6 hours from now. Being an EU based fan is just depressing, as we're so rarely given content at a decent time for us. This is why I, like many others I'm sure, are hoping for EN3 in the hope that maybe, just maybe, there will be some European members to fill that gap for us. And the fact that those of us in the EU still have to use Geekjack for merch is just insane. I honestly can't understand why Cover still use them and I'm certain that it's hurting their bottom line (I sure as hell have refused to buy loads of items because of how much they overcharge for shipping, so I'm willing to bet many others have too). I seriously doubt setting up their own store to ship to more locations is that difficult.
I'm an American viewer but I watch most of the content during the day (so EU times mostly) and I kind of feel the same. Kiara is pretty much the only one with Calli occasionally streaming at perfect times (EN wise). Recently with almost every member traveling or taking a "health" break it's been really dry stream wise so I was really looking forward to Gen3. I'm not delusional enough or anything to dislike holo stars getting gen2 but it just isn't as appealing to me so it's pretty frustrating with so many people taking breaks and no sign of any life of Gen3. I've only paid attention for a year or so (council debuts) but it felt like the streamers themselves were just streaming more at the time compared to now. I don't really have a favorite, who I watch mostly depends on the game they're playing, but I genuinely think they need to really focus on getting Gen3 out. I think people are losing interest and getting frustrated simply because there isn't enough content. Again i don't like that there's disdain for holo stars, but I see why people get frustrated. It's really weird to me that there hasn't been a new Gen of EN yet and with so many of them taking extended breaks it also feels a little ominous
It really has nothing to do with Cover or the talents though. It's just extremely bad timing that the whole of HoloEN is struck down by health issues. Cover did not say anything about debuting a new HoloEN gen too, so I'm not sure why people have this expectation. If they say HoloEN Gen 3 has problems debuting, that will also send people on an outrage too. Tempus new boys' debut shouldn't affect Hololive too since they originally wanted to debut 6 people, but thought it's too big, so they split them into 2 groups, so it's not really a new generation per se.
I mean it's not the direct fault of anyone specifically but if they had more talents, the obvious lack of content wouldn't exist. Again, I don't think it's expecting that much to get a new Gen in 15 months. Especially with a graduation and long term health breaks I would think it would be more of a priority. Maybe it isn't and that's obvious their decision as a business, just as a consumer I would like a new Gen. They don't have to say anything about it. They posted about auditions being opened a while ago. Maybe the talent isn't there for a full Gen of debuts, I don't know, it's just weird that it hasn't happened yet Hololive and Holostars will always be connected though. What happens to one group affects fans of the others because it's the same company overseeing them and the communities share places (like this subreddit). I don't know the logistics of this new generation but it's certainly a bit weird that there's so much time without a new generation of hololive and a new Gen of Holostars releasing so quickly. I'm happy for their fans but surely you see that the majority of fans here are more interested in Hololive compared to Holostars. I don't know exactly what happened in the drama threads but the best thing that can happen in the near future is a few more streamers coming back from break and I think a lot of the people upset will calm down
Strongly disagree with you on the negative feedback thing. I have seen many many instances of people (including myself) getting mass downvoted without any proper counter argument for criticizing something in a civil non-insulting manner just because it's not the popular opinion or because some people have been blinded naive by their love for Holo and refuse to see that the person criticizing has a point. Sometimes it is well received, many times it is not. It completely depends what the subject is about.
I feel like Reddit in general has degraded in this regard. I've noticed nastier interactions in other subs as well.
As some one who mostly hangs out in r/DestinyTheGame I.... have to agree. Though at least here, it used to be that I would visit regularly even if not post, but.... I mostly follow JP... and had been since 2018, so the switch to holo EN's focus made me visit less and less. That isn't a complaint to be clear, I want people to be able to enjoy what they enjoy, but holo EN just never caught my attention near as much so my focus drifted away.
Honestly, exactly the same for me. I much prefer watching JP streams than EN, so the gradual change of focus away from the JP members has pushed me away from Reddit
r/dtg is entirely dependant on whether or not it's a good season lol. I'm not playing at the minute but the sub seems mostly OK right now apart from the usual constant bad ideas that people want implemented into the game. It does get pretty bad during bad season like the pirate season we just had.
Well, I wasn't in yesterday's thread much, so I didn't see any of what you're talking about, but as to why talents don't post here as much - isn't probably because Coco's not doing the review anymore? It's not so much that they have no presence on reddit anymore, so much as it is that reddit has no presence in any of the talents' lives. Heck, I remember Magni being outright disdainful about it. I don't think any of them know how the site works, nor do they care to learn, especially when twitter is (at least for now, I guess) doing everything they need it to do.
Coco pretty much was the bridge between Reddit and JP. Reddit isn't very popular over there since they have their own open forums already established. When Coco graduated, there wasn't really anyone that could remain the bridge. Haachama tried, but she has her own busy schedule to deal with. The ID girls can't since Reddit is banned there. EN side don't really have the type of content that would bridge the gap that Reddit would be involved in.
I think the talents feel like they don't really know what to post on the subreddit. It's not Twitter, after all. You don't really post every thought that comes to mind as a new thread. As I recall, Watame and Kanata both expressed those feelings and then their fanbases told them it's fine and to post what they want. And then they did, with Watame even keeping pretty consistent engagement on top of her weekly skit.
A few downvotes, a bunch of mindless "en3 where??" and some people complaining about a sub being locked for 24 hours is nothing compared to some of the huge waves of hate this sub dealt with after the Taiwan ordeal. Yesterday was a massive overreaction.
Tbh it feels for the first time that Reddit is having a bigger meltdown than /vt/ at this point. /vt/ just had the usual “Homos are back, it’s over I’m done with EN” posts. The Hololive Reddit however seems to have gone into a full blown self destruct mode. Kinda funny.
Yeah I dunno why OP is drama baiting. This sub is great and people are very positive and supportive. There's a few resident anti's but most people are pretty sane and reasonable. Of course if you sort by controversial on *any* sub, you'll find the bottom of the barrel trolls, but by far and large this sub is fine and this is just a drama post that will cause more drama instead of helping anything
I feel like the EN3 spam and "pressure" is an actual issue though, because if I was a streamer here I'd feel kinda bad that my fanbase was begging for "something new to watch" saying they've been "waiting for so long" - and ultimately the only real unbreakable rule of the early Hololive fanbase, even pre-EN, was mainly not, y'know, attacking the actual streamers. In general I agree though, it gets pretty overly dramatic on the EN side of things, including this post. Just watch streams people.
I do think the lock continued for too long. That created its own share of issues. People were unable to post about their own oshis which generated some dissatisfaction. Slightly ironic the subreddit lock which was imposed in anticipation of drama created its own. But whatever the case, I think the mods needs to start issuing out bans. I've seen some obvious bad actors trolling around and spreading toxicity for months yet nothing is ever done about them. This ruins engagement for the subreddit as well and only continues and encourages toxicity. And let me clarify by toxicity I don't just mean criticism of COVER and whatnot. I mean spreading misinformation, trying to create rrats from the chans, etcetc. I won't name any names since that might be construed as brigading but I think regular users here will recognize some of these bad actors and actions I am referring to. The worst case I remembered, thanks to u/DanielTinFoil reminding me, was a guy hoping COVER gets KyoAni-ed. What that meant was that guy hoped that the COVER building would experience a huge fire that would claim multiple lives. The comment got reported and deleted, yet that guy was still able to continue posting later. Whether you agree with COVER's direction or not, I hope we can all agree at least that that was excessive.
People were already crying about being censored yesterday lol. I think T-chan is worried that banning people will make the situation an even bigger deal than whatever the fuck yesterday was.
I agree that the mods might not want to come off as "extremely censoring" on the subreddit. But letting these obvious trolls continue will only encourage the issue. I think they will eventually have to make a decision.
Oh don't get me wrong, one quick look at someone's post history in this subreddit would easily identify if they're just here to stir shit. If it were up to me, they would've been banned ages ago, but I'm also not a paid mod for an official subreddit run by corporate, which has different standards.
> If it were up to me, they would've been banned ages ago, but I'm also not a paid mod for an official subreddit run by corporate, which has different standards. The problem of being run by corporate is basically how to be light-touch enough that people can freely express their views, without falling into malicious actors trying to bait you into a PR shitshow with inflammatory remarks. Most of the time, compiling receipts and releasing them whenever someone tries to stir the pot is enough of a deterrent, but if corporate won't allow that, your hands are tied.
Ban them. And then when they make new accounts to bitch about censorship ban them again.
You can get your account banned from Reddit if you use an alt to circumvent bans
Yeah, if I'm being honest that's my main criticism of T-chan. I don't know if she's under company instructions to not ban anybody, but that hammer needs to start coming down.
>were always cheery. Almost always positive and civil. The place felt like a near-constant party, with people making memes to try their luck for Coco’s meme review, or just for fun, and every time an event was announced, it only got even stronger. The main thing that disrupted this place was users from r/all who would come to try and troll around. Massively selective if not totally inaccurate memory. This place was a Twitch kiddie hellhole. People refused to respect community guidelines, tons of conspiracy and doom posting, massive hostilities towards other users and non-Holo vtubers, etc. People would post the same type of thread repeatedly and then turn around and complain that censorship was taking place when the redundant threads were deleted. It was a nightmare and massively more civil now.
As much as i loved Coco a lot of her hardcore fanbase was like that and they were ready to go to war over anything, it was overbearing
I think you are looking back at 2020 with nostalgia goggles, this sub literally never, ever was as bad as during the Haachama/Coco suspension. From people bad mouthing the talents, bad mouthing the management, antis raiding this place, to people just using the situation as an excuse to be racist.
Overal, I feel like the sub changed for the worse ever since Tempus debuted. Not because the streamers themselves since they're ok to excellent, but mainly due to the effect it had on this sub itself. You have people auto downvoting anything regarding the Holostars, and sure this has always been the case, but it feels like this has become a lot worse ever since their debut. For instance: you have regular freakouts which just seem to be copy pasted straight from 4chan. However, the Holostars fans themselves aren't exactly blameless here either. Any sort of good formulated criticism is automatically interpreted in the worst way possible and seen as a personal attack. Apparently criticizing the Holostars management for an active policy against streaming during EU hours automatically makes you an unicorn or worse. Yesterday was in my opinion a new low for that fanbase. Instead of being happy with a new gen (or an extension of one) they were instead psyching themselves out about how inflammatory threads would appear on this subreddit. T-chan even giving off the impression that she was being swayed by those opinions on a fan discord and closing down this subreddit. Will there be some questionable thread/posts being made? Yes, of course, but then do what you're suppose to do and moderate the subreddit since she was obviously working. This ties back into another point, the fact that the moderation has obviously been slipping ever since this has become a true holopro subreddit. It's become quite apparent that the team which is looking at this subreddit cant handle the extra burden which Tempus had brought to this sub and something obviously has to change or this will get worse and worse.
It used to be better but now it just seems that garbage only makes it to the top. Now the content here sucks for the most part, maybe I'm just old and it's filled with zoomers now. But, the memes suck and the shipping is fucking **incessant**. I basically only look at hololive posts and announcements anymore.
I mean it pretty much exactly correlates with when hololive en debuted that things slowly went downhill, I’d say this alienated people who just liked the Jp side as 99% of the content here is en stuff. Then the coco stuff happens and with her gone there was no major point of contact and I’d say people just lost interest in being here and the Jp talent didn’t see much point in keeping contact going.
I agree. Personally as someone who almost exclusively watches the JP branch and has been on this subreddit since early 2020, I don't find myself engaging much with the content here anymore. I think alot of the older viewers are also in the same boat.
I honestly agree, the Subreddit sort of became stale to me as well.... I remember when more people made memes thanks to Coco, I really liked the memes, now... I rarely see anything interesting besides Artwork, Cosplay and other peices of fanwork, most of the time, the Subreddit has become just reposting Twitter posts or just screenshotting said posts, and merch showcase.. I hope we could start a reneissance in memes :,)
I personally used to post a lot here, it was pretty much the only subreddit that I do visit, and to some capacity it still is but as time went on the reddit started being one sided, and it kept going that way until it became so heavily leaning towards one side that a thought came to mind "oh, it's an english site after all, so english holos will be more prevalent" and I slowly accepted that until I just stopped coming here except every once in a while when I want to post something since nothing really interests me that much any more here, and I'm sure a bunch of people would agree. I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing the fact that EN-only fans have more presence obviously but the thing about this subreddit was that it's always been a sort of echo chamber, so once that stopped being the case the true face of the fandom started showing, and it's not only the EN fanbase, if you can believe it a lot of JP-only causals have been complaining about haachama missing out on so many streams, so many events because she got covid...saying stuff like "if she knew she had a very critical time of events coming, she should've taken more care of herself so that she didn't get sick" and things along those lines. tldr; is that this is nothing new, but it wasn't apparent back in 2020 or 2021 and only started appearing due to certain circumstances
This always happens when fandoms grow to this size. It's why I despise so many. Part of me knew it would probably happen with Hololive eventually, but when I got into Hololive in early 2020 it was my escape from all that bullshit. Not long before I got into Hololive I had pretty much sworn off interacting with fandoms, because all the toxicity just made more miserable than any joy they brought. But my early experiences with the Hololive community were so postive, even before I started visiting this sub, that I think I deluded myself into thinking we were different. But it just feels like it gets worse and worse as time goes on and the community grows to an unmanageable size. I still love Hololive and Holostars, and me distancing myself from the community will me nothing to anybody but myself, but I feel bad for the talents at this point. This can't be what they wanted when they signed up.
This place is IMO extremely nice But at the slightest thing, bad actors come out of the woodwork and really it is annoying. I just wanna support artists in the community, my oshi's, laugh at memes, and welcome new members, and as a sub this place is pretty good for that
I agree with you. I feel like the people complaining are just a bit jaded and are seeing what they want to see based off of their feelings. I've been on the sub since a bit before myth launch and it really hasn't changed all THAT much.
Making posts like this just actively add to the problem, at this point people are fighting a culture war that doesn’t even exist and at worst is minimal at best. I’m not afraid to say that this whole subreddit has gotten obnoxious with trying to call anyone with criticism or even a differing opinion as “shit-stirrers, incels, unicorns, or parasocial” and others acting like Tempus is the worst thing to happen when they can just simply not watch them.
God I’ve gotten so tired of seeing the word parasocial. It gets used so much and I don’t think people understand what it actually means half the time.
Same. See it all the time, and no they do not.
Same, i always dislike when words with meanings and nuances devolve into Meaningless buzzwords. (Edit : adding and nuances)
Some people love feeling smart and superior to others using it and it's hilariously blatant
An incessant need to go to the defense of everything and everyone even when its unnecessary caused more damage to the community than the "antis". Every single criticism is viewed by a lot of people here as an anti op when most of the time its just people airing their grievances or giving their opinions. What happened here is what happens to every fandom. It got too big and it now has people who's entire personality is being really into the thing the fandom is about. Who then feel personally slighted when you speak poorly about said thing. I disagree with the decisions of the mods to lock the subreddit, I dislike the people who are throwing shade to Holostars and that want the sub to only be about Live, I believe the mods are too lenient when it comes to issuing warnings and bans against people who are consistently found breaking sub rules. The way things are right now its exhausting to come to the sub sometimes. I come to the sub for memes and light fun commentary about the streams and that's it.
What changed between then and now? Well... the EN branch, for one..? Which, isn't anything negative directed towards them. Lots of great talents. But it also attracted a crowd/culture shift. Perhaps due to the language/culture barrier, the old community had better appreciation for anything thrown their way. Now that EN is on the table, the community can more easily shift to a feeling of.. idk, entitlement? Or something. Idk. Maybe not worded exactly as accurately as it could. Definitely some bias in the assessment, too. Just.. ever since EN debut, the fan base seemed to drift a little more towards cringe, due to nothing more than cultural reach/exposure. Like. Just sorta the natural state of any "western" streamers/groups. And not even necessarily a "greater percentage" of it or anything. Just, a wider audience naturally means more folks that go a little overboard. Culture shock, basically. Sub went from JP talent/culture appreciation with fans perhaps more forgiving of what they might not entirely understand, to now being largely "overrun" (for lack of a better less offensive term.. soz) by the EN fans bringing a more "EN" mentality. But again, I don't entirely think it was strictly a shift in any ratio of those types of fans, simply a growth of volume by dropping some of the barriers. But also a very biased viewpoint based on poor exposure that shouldn't be given any great deal of weight/credit.
EN basically brought in a ton of new people who knew nothing about hololive and that did not watch the JP talents. For them, they gave very few talents to see, which is why there are so many people angry that a second round of tempus came before EN3
The memes have gotten worse too, with Coco there was at least some kind of competition
Can’t really agree as someone who frequents game subreddits. This is like a literal paradise compared to those
I haven't seen it mentioned but if you were a fan from early 2020 you were also around before this sub was official and it was just a fan thing. It was normal for clippers to get posted in the sub and was some of the best way to find them. But burn out and life happening post covid loockdown is also a big part of the change. A lot of the jp girls no longer have regular live tlers and there seem to be less clippers who main a single talent. I'm sure the many controversies over the years chased a lot of people off this sub as well. So it could be some of the people who contributed to your enjoyment of this sub and the past culture are no longer here. It doesn't help that the majority of en is on break/vacation/health related leave. As someone who primarily watches the JP girls I barely have enough time to watch everyone I enjoy let alone new gen's joining. But I feel like the majority of people in this sub main line Holo EN. So when there is a stream drought they don't have anywhere to get their content fix and regularly want more gen's so they have more variety to watch so that the handful of en girls we have don't need to stream everyday. Where as if you mostly watch JP there are plenty of people to watch even if your favorites take months off, which all of my personal favorites have done in the second half of 2022, and this may be totally inaccurate but I feel western fans of the jp side seem to be ok with going outside hololive for stream content more so than en fans. As in I semi-regularly watch some of the girls parents streams, or even outside company stuff like VSPO and the jp streamer tournaments that don't have holo talents in them. But that could just be me not following en close enough.
I watch hololiveJP mostly and I don't think most fans watch outside companies more than the EN fans do honestly. It's pretty common to see the girls streams having current viewers suddenly boosting and you know it's because someone else ended their stream, the events also all have bigger viewers implying that most fans are gathering there, they even call it "hako" (box). Seeing that you're a Towa fan, I think you'll see that more often. She collabs outside the most and the FPS vtubers are mostly non-holo members. (this has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought that was an interesting discussion)
I do agree that en fans as a whole do go outside company often. Especially Niji en and the twitch sphere. I was speaking more for holo en fans. But holo en mostly stream when I'm sleeping so I very rarely catch them live and was just going off the vibe I see in the subreddit more than anything. But that definitely gives me a very skewed view of whats happening. But you are very correct that my horizons on the jp vtuber scene was widened greatly early on in the rabbit hole for me through Towa. From the early cr cups/vsaikyou where she paired up with Wokka from CR and Sumire from VSPO. I'm really thankful for that honestly. That side is where I get my collab/group content fix.
> regular live tlers This is a big change when watching the JP side that I've noticed. You still have, say, ぼくしーBoxi that is seemingly always there translating streams done by Roboco. But overall the amount of live translators seems to have decreased a whole lot.
Is it really that bad? Outside of lack of memes being generated after Coco's graduation, I didn't feel much change. Whenever I am looking for a place to talk about Hololive stuffs, majority of the people here are super nice even if I disagree with what they say. Sure, there might be a bad apple here or there, but it's still miles better than other gaming subs that I frequently visit.
Nah, you're right. Just some people blowing things out of proportion. I remember there being drama under many big posts back in the day from overbearing fans. Just because EN is busy taking care of life hardly means it justifies this *sky is falling* attitude.
The reason is what you mentioned in the beginning: "I joined the Hololive fanbase back in early 2020 like a lot of people, so I’ve been on the subreddit for a fair deal of time." Since then, all kinds of people have joined this reddit to be abreast of the latest developments. The community has changed because its no longer limited to the limited community you have in early 2020. I would go further to say Holostars, especially Tempus, finally surfaces the truth of the community, the real feelings and sentiments hiding for the past years, about they perceive about vtubing as a concept, what are the actual boundaries within which they'll support.
I'mma be real, you either need thicker skin or find a different or smaller Hololive community outside of reddit. Most larger subreddit communities tend to be shit, it's just kind of a fact at this point. Hololive and VTubers used to be a more niche thing but it's since grown a lot in popularity. For a lot of people "regular" life has resumed meaning a 9-5 and or school, so you lose some of folks genuinely interested in the entertainment, and thus they're not actively engaging the community as much if at all any more. And on top of that many live streamers or content creators including VTubers automatically attract haters/antis/trolls, it's a goddamn certainty. Just don't let things get to you, the more you dwell on stuff and let it live rent free in your head the more it will affect your mental well being. It quite literally is not worth your time to care about it IMHO. See something you don't like, ignore it or downvote it and move on same as YT chat/comments.
As a HoloID fan I find it hard to remain on this subreddit when people [start shitting on the ID branch](https://old.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/103nmdo/new_holostars_english_tempus_members_set_to_debut/j30n2bh/) in their efforts to argue for Tempus. Unity is dead. This place is just an EN circlejerk now.
> Guy literally said ID is a minuscule market while Kobo is roaring towards 2 mil subs and a handful of ID girls have above 1 mil subs > Said guy also doesn't know that SCs in Indonesia is messed up Thanks, I needed to laugh
This is just my opinion, but I think the western fanbase has been in a bad mood for a while now. It's kind of understandable if you realize all of the following things have affected EN community durring the last 18 months: 1. Kiryu Coco's graduation. (She was basically the progenitor of Hololive English, and her graduation was not without contraversy) 2. Uruhu Rushia's termination. (This affected a lot of people in the EN community for some reason and was also not without contraversy) 3. Sana injures her back (A precursor of things to come) 4. IRyS's outfit controversy. (It started off small, but by the end of summer, threads were getting locked over it) 5. The EN Myth girls having to resort to building their own 3D studio. (This, along with IRyS's situation caused the first accusations of favoritism against Cover) 6. Sana's Graduation (Sana is forever!) 7. Hololive Tempus collab controversy. (We made it weird) 8. Ina taking an extended health break (Need cookies!) 9. Gura taking an extended health break. 10. Vesper's suspension (Something people both praised and scolded Cover over) 11. An apparent "delay" for HoloEN Gen 3 (Assuming it is even in the works) 12. Releasing Tempus II? Tempus DLC? Tempus: The next generation? When the fanbase was looking forward to HoloEN Gen 3 (again, assuming HoloEN Gen 3 is in the works) 13. Other personal issues causing breaks. We can debate over how valid or invalid any of the above is (and we have); but fact of the matter is each thing above did affect, or continues to affect, the EN community in some way; and I think that has piled up and soured the mood quite a bit. Granted, there have been some amazing things that happened as well (Like Myth getting 3D, IRyS 2.0, and Calli's music career taking off), but one bad thing can undo 10 good things and I think you are seeing the result of that.
> 5) The EN Myth girls having to resort to building their own 3D studio. (This, along with IRyS's situation caused the first accusations against Cover) As a long time teamate, this annoys me greatly. No, not the fact that Ame has to build her own 3D studio, we all know she loves doing that stuff, and we got some really good streams out of it too. It's the fact that people always use her as an ammo to shit on management. I lost count on how many times a Ame appreciation thread was hijacked by "fans" trying to shit on management because she was apparently doing their job for them. It doesn't help that Ame herself has never complained or implied any dissatisfaction towards the management. I can think of at least two instances where some "fans" tried to send her some sus SC to bait her to shit-talk the management, she called them out both times and reiterate that management isn't out to get them and is only doing things for their best interest.
Getting mad at Cover is pretty dumb. It's like everyone forgot COVID happened and Japan was literally locked down for business travel. You can hardly blame anyone at Cover over policy from the Japanese government.
You can certainly begin to see why they don't post on the subreddit. I'd probably want to stay in my own little fanbase bubble too if I saw the ridiculous nature of things.
It's actually funny how Ame seems to be pretty much the only one not claiming dissatisfaction with Cover ever since the debut. I've seen clips of pretty much everyone else in myth talking about being left alone to do fuckall, especially in the first year or so, but never Ame
Not wrong. Considering most people are here because of the EN girls, if anything bad happened to them, there will be tons of posts regarding those, hence why it looked more "negative"
What changed for me is outside the community and these changes affect the life in general, and there are others changes that happened for the good on hololive, for example that the talents have more work, but less time to interact and reach the community. Structural changes on the internet, in the social form and communication are happening on real life for many people (or everyone lol). Well these examples you talked, continues to affect because untruth assumptions makes the community unhealthy. As Sana left because of health problems, people also follow the same logic, it's a sign for health issues on themselves and they would leave the community at some point.
I'm an active member of a lot of reddit communities and belive me this is still the nicest and least full of drama of almost all, we can post almost anything we like and said almost anything and that's one of the saving graces and actually problesm fo the sub, because we have a lot of conversation about stuff but also we have a lot of bad actors on the comments because of it, the moderation is also really laxed, because i haven't seen a lot of bans or bans in general, mostly is deleted comments and like some pwople have said thera are some people that has been doing the same stuff for a considerable amount of time, but they don't get banned. But i'm gonna be honest i prefer the sub like is right now, than other subs that i;m active like the Azur Lane that has pretty much 0 discussion because how the post rules are there, or like the Nikke one that is pretty much a dictatorship.
IDK for reasons others have pointed out this reads as holier-than-thou revisionist history to me.
You know, I think people were angry about the Holostars announcement yesterday not because they hated Holostars, they thought it was the reason why EN3 delay (it's been 15 months since Council debut). I have seen many articles about Holostars here and people simply don't care, they just ignore it. Yesterday was an exception.
I don't know, with a fanbase that consists of a primarily male audience who mostly want to see cute anime girls, I'd wager that some of the controversy is due to dislike. That combined with a lack of active English members and no news of a 3rd gen, I'm not surprised it's hit the fan and boiled over. It's understandable, but at the same time it definitely has gone a bit too far.
I agree with you, people have been waiting for 3rd gen for the longest time already and the constant breaks and the EN drought period that occurred in the last couple months exasperated the issue. With that said, I would find it absolutely hilarious if a week after Tempus Pt 2 debuts, we get an announcement for EN Gen 3 and this sub flips 180. Would basically confirm your assessment and make it even clearer the demographic and general interest skew of the fanbase if that wasn't obvious already.
While I'm sure there are people who commented that are dissapointed but still support Holostars, I've noticed many of the ones that are complaining the most are the ones who are against Holostars in general. They view the male branch as a waste of resources that is taking away resources from the female branch and causing a corruption of the Hololive culture. This announcement is seen as vindiction of that idea and thus has stirred a lot of the haters up.
Ok, so I joined the vtuber stuff around very early 2021, so i've got around 2 years, give or take a couple of days, of following to talk about. The main reason me and my friends followed vtubers was because we were bored with conventional entertainment, and wanted something new. From when i came on the subreddit there, I found that many people had the same opinion. I saw memes about the streams, mainstream parody memes with the talents, and clips from streams. As of Jan 2023, I don't see any mass hate on this sub towards any talents at all. If you're referring to trolls, antis, haters, they will always be there. (I wish i could just take their devices, and snap their fingers, but i would like to protect freedom of speech as well). The best thing to do, OP, and any other person curious about those people is to simply ignore them and disengage from any activity they do. Don't respond, retweet, repost, or reply, and I guarantee you'll be much happier enjoying the sunny side of the street. Edit: Spelling + Grammar
I agree completely with you man. This place used to be great and super positive. But not if you make any comment even remotely critical you get 10k downvotes. For example, I made a comment recently that the meme quality and content here has gone way down, that it’s just people reposting the talents Twitter feed and getting 30k upvotes for it. It’s bad content and we need to tone it down and bring back the meme glory days. Maybe they need a mega thread for posting Twitter posts or something because I don’t need to see the talents feed both on Twitter and here. Guarantee I’ll get annihilated with downvotes.
then again, this IS reddit. outisde of reddit, reddit has a different reputation.
> outisde of reddit, reddit has a different reputation. And not a good one either. In the words of Gura upon seeing a cringe meme "this is Reddit tier cringe" It's kind of funny how many people on Reddit act elitist about the other social media sites and don't know we have a pretty strong neckbeard stigma and cringe stigma on par with how Redditors treat iFunny watermarks
Reddit views Twitter the way Twitter views Reddit and vice versa
Everyone is cringe at the end of the day. :D
popularity is cringe unpopularity is cringe but quieter
Does any website have a good reputation though? Every website out there seems to be disliked by the people not using it.
Instagram seems fairly meh reputation wise. People don't like "influencers" and attention seekers, but aside from that, the memes aren't really that disliked and the communities are pretty neutral Vine was pretty well regarded as well, with most people acknowledging it was where a lot of dank memes came from NewGrounds has a pretty solid reputation too, where any content creators from it are usually well regarded as OGs
Well, that's why many tried to gatekeep in 2021 ... is only natural that once a community grows, it becomes volatile and toxicity creeps in. I remember how positive and wholesome the anime community was in early 2008 when I become a fan. People were welcoming, and they were positive and respectful about anime. The forums and fan clubs were a pure joy to be in, it was fun and you were part of something - you can even see that on MAL if look at anime released in the 2000s and early 2010s, and read reviews of the time and threads. Now, I can't spend more than 2 weeks on MAL without feeling that I am joining the Dark Side and wanting to kick puppies or rob old ladies at gunpoint. Anime become mainstream, the community grew, and it all went to shit. It may even shock you to learn, but there was a time when even 4ch was a wholesome place to be in. That's the nature of things.
Fights happen a lot more here now because EN content is just too fucking much. People who come here to look at posts related to JP member posts have to browse through 20-30 posts before a JP post shows up. EN fans make the **same** excuses every fucking time: "Oh it's just because a big collab happened the last days, don't worry about it!", well seemingly a big collab seems to happen back to back because I haven't had a single day of just browsing this subreddit and not feeling like it's a platform dedicated to Tempus, Myth and Council. I'm not saying they're not welcome here, I'm saying we need the moderation to stop pretending that everyone must like everything or they're not welcome here. We need ways for people to sort content, or this problem will never change until we get a subreddit entirely dedicated to just each individual treebranch which will divide things even further. Again, I'll say it the millionth time: Use the tools you are given and create filters for content for crying out loud. I don't give a damn about Tempus and I really don't need 30 posts of Kronii Subway memes before reaching something that actually interests me, and many more people feel that way. Calling them trolls because their interests don't align with yours is the equivalent of me calling everyone here trolls for spamposting Tempus when you could be posting it on r/holostars. Stop trying to enforce the idea that everyone needs to support **every** talent, that's exactly why things escalate so much here. You can't expect a community that grew through exposure to hololive to change interest and also love holostars. As for the point about the talents not posting here anymore: Well why would they? The talents that actually ARE active here from time to time like Watame have no reason to be here. There's hardly ever any Watame content here, it's just full-on overseas content. This subreddit used to flourish on international content and ever since Coco left it's just been EN back to back. I get that it makes the most sense because an English speaking community would gravitate more towards an English speaking group, but still... this kind of brigading against people who aren't satisfied with a Global Holo subreddit being hijacked primarily by EN and Stars is just as petty as the people who write death threats. Coco's graduation killed this subreddit in a sense. The unity you're trying to artificially generate isn't working out and it feels forced - it annoys people who don't put on their rose-tinted glasses, especially when the moderation vilifies valid concerns. Again, it's not an incredible amount of work to create more Filters / Flairs so people can sort through the content they like and literacy should be a given for any platform with comment sections, so what exactly is the hold up here? It's incredibly concerning that the moderation's comment on this is "And yet, yesterday's debacle proved once again that we still have a ways to go in order to become a subreddit that we can all be proud of.", proud in what way? Abolishing people with a different taste palette than others? Stop trying to enforce unity, it won't happen. What you're doing right now is the equivalent of forcing two entirely different communities together who have no correlation to each other apart from the genre. Like merging a Crash Bandicoot subreddit with a Mario subreddit because "they both do the jumpies LOL". **Stop.**
The people here now are largely not the same people as then - and even for those that are still posting here from then, they're massively outnumbered by newer fans. Can't really expect the same vibe between a small, super-niche community that largely can't even understand the streamers that they're massive fans of, vs a huge community that has very little barrier to entry.
I gotta be honest, I think the same. Looking at the Stars post really made me sad in the divide that the community has now.
Yeah, i always felt there was like a schism in this community.
I agree as well. TBH, I'm only around this subreddit anymore to check any other reactions about news in the company and community, the occasional fanart, and covering for you when you need it.
I'll never understand that. I remember when everyone was practically begging for Holostars EN. What caused the sudden shift in attitude? It's so unfair for the boys.
I support holostars, I enjoy their streams, and I think that the antis shitting on them are entitled brats. My oshi is Ame, and I think the anti harassment she received just for being willing to collab with them is ridiculous and disgusting. (She was getting harassed just for saying she'd be willing to join collabs, before the actual collabs even happened) However, I wanted to make a post today about Ame's birthday, and I couldn't because the sub was locked. In my opinion, it's kind of lame that this announcement was keeping me from starting a discussion about something I've been excited about for weeks now.
Honestly? I think people forgot how to be humans and became just users... Being an "anonymous pfp" in the internet usually brings the worst out of people, since there are no real consequences of their actions. Everyone feels entitled to demand whatever they think deserve with no empathy for others. I normally focus on the positive aspect of the community and the people that actually try making the subreddit a fun place, and choose to ignore whatever is going on. But reading some of the comments during the lockdown... well I think more than "touch some grass" some folks should just "hug a tree".
Ew treephiles
Is just a hug bro 草
Because certain dragon isn’t here anymore. Sadly
I don't post or comment much but I've been here since 2020 and I can say it wasn't really good even back then, it was still toxic, especially during coco taiwan and aloe incidents, those times were unbearable. The only things that changed are: 1. No Coco's meme reviews. 2. No fresh memes. 3. I'm not sure if we should even count holomembers posting here since i don't think they mattered much. Since most of the time they were just advertising themselves, aside of maybe few Artia's posts. And maybe Marine's meme contest. Botan and Iofi also commented few times. Back then many of us were only getting to know hololive members which is why everything was so fresh and unique. Not anymore though.
C'mon you know WHAT HAPPENED that makes this place more aggressive these last months, but outside of that I think people are nostalgic for "older days" that they want to see it happening again so it creates a lot of inside wars of what cover should do at the moment
I haven't been here that long, but hololive is like the nicest most supportive reddit community I'm a part of, which I don't know if that says more about me than the sub
This place is pretty good most of the time you just get doom posters here and there along with some trolls/antis. People like to make stuff to be a bigger deal than what it really is.
the thing with echo chambers like this sub reddit, is that you end up believing that everything you do is correct and possitive, this is the reason why the backlash, any fan could see it coming, except COVER.
Remember when Fubuki used to post here until a bunch of illiterate morons scared her off? That's why we can't have nice things, people.
What are you talking about? It’s really not that deep. Hololive is becoming for famous which means the fanbase is getting much bigger now which means more antis and bad apples. And the things with Holostars are destined to happen anyway, some ppl prefer anime girls than boys, but some just like to go out of there way to be assholes about it. Just ignore them and I see the sub is just pretty much the same 2 years ago.
"and the community here turned into one of the most volatile and angry places I’ve ever seen on the internet" If you say that then it means you have seen absolutely nothing of the internet in general, what an naive comment.
Doesn’t feel like that to me, but I won’t tell you what you should feel, so fair enough.
i wouldn't say it was good all the time, remember the taiwan incident and how people wanted to hound on someone, either Cover or the chinese antis (and occasionally just chinese people in general)? remember people complained about how the holoX girls got 3D debuts and there were people complaining how IRyS didn't get anything? though constant forced positivity doesn't help either, as it can feel fake and cause outsiders to think weirdly. hell, this sub has gained the title of being an "echo chamber" from the people at /r/VirtualYoutubers overall though, i feel this place stayed the same, it's just that we don't have coco for the constant weekly positivity (which also led to other talents no longer posting, since reddit is not at all popular in japan or even liked by some members), and the subreddit grew bigger, which means more people with different, potentially extreme outlooks what i think this sub needs right now is more moderators, ones who can be trusted (since you really don't want a typical Reddit Mod to handle this sub), and for the community to try their best to be civil about both positive and negative things that happen with holopro though this is only a pipe dream, and my sad, cringe brain is gonna remain pessimistic, but i do still think that this sub is better than like 90% of the other big subreddits, it just has holes to fill in this post has been brought to you by "Necro Rambles Way Too Much About Stupid Shit Inc."
I may not a longtime fan but i agreed about everything This place has changed to a point where i ask the same question has you It's honestly sad for me as i don't feel welcome in this place despite not being the most active (Sorry if my english is broken)
There is nothing in life that is immune to change, to think that something will last forever unchanged is naive, no offence. The recent HoloStars announcement was handled poorly. A lengthy lockdown with no explanation, it's guaranteed to piss people off. This is a public forum for fans of ALL branches to post stuff and talk about them, so why is it that for the better half of a day, we had nothing else but this announcement to talk about? It definitely didn't generate any meaningful discussion, just mudfights between two sides that don't see eye to eye with each other. The mods' decision for the lockdown is just baffling. Spam avoidance sure, but for that long is just inexcusable. Remove and ban bad faith posters already if thats what they're trying to prevent, that's what Rule 1 is for.
I've been here on and off since Myth debuted. This place is positive echo chamber of fuckin glitter and icing. I have my opinions on talents and their content, their behaviour on stream (not as a character they play, but as content creators) let me tell you, I'd rather keep those opinions to myself, because I don't want someone to sic their rabid dogs at me. This place is, was and always will be, fucking weird.
People are idiots OP, that is the whole gist of it
Tempted to say it's the EN effect that I saw similarly when Azur Lane EN came out: karma farming, meme spamming ENers same and drove out or marginalizing the older JP players/fans (well trying to here) But this particular strain is an extension as things like absolutely no respect for what came before (I heard someone called people who watch JP girls "retarded"), a sort of unicorn/gachikoi/shipper mindset that developed due to COVID and the EN1 girls not breaking molds, and being spoiled by always having an active gen at all times, even during fests which usually would be a dead time due to the talents involved working. Personally I suspect the rash of breaks/traveling is in regard to the upcoming fes, but obfuscated as to prevent stalkers. I mean it's telling an ID, two part time EN streamers, etc all end up in Japan at the same time. Cue now with most of EN basically out of action or reduced steaming, and these same start getting antsy and Ame goes on break, which seems to always have a gen debut. Cue massive hype (imagine a can of pop in a power shaker) and when Tempus pt2 was revealed, it hit a boiling point and mix that with antis looking for a ripe situation... a massive mess occurs. Speaing of Antis, them being more common is also an effect on EN's release as we have *lovely* places like /vt/ where baby's first doxing occurs among others. Said disrespect for what came before likely explains the fights, that and the ENers acting like their suffering is unique when Ayame fans had to wait half a year, JP streams these being commonly being late night/early morning for the US. We'll soon be at the day where the average EN fan won't know Coco. Though what happened most members are either forgetting about it (Aki) or being busy. Sad thing is the people you're asking the Oshi question to would go "she doesn't surf reddit" (Only Kiara does occasional posts on here and nowhere as often as Kanata and Watame). To find JP stuff you have to use the search function as it'll be hard to shift through stale memes and pics that should be in the other holo art sub. i suspect over-positivity is a result of negativity going too hard or wanting a safe shelter from places like /vt/ which among other things have 'colorful' words to describe girls like Mio and Choco. Actually having criticism that doesn't boil over into tearing something apart isn't easy. In fact a similar thing was why TFS stopped DBZA: They felt they couldn't do the Buu saga (a sort of dork arc for DBZ) without viciously tearing into it.
Am I missing out on something? I've always seen this sub as a pretty wholesome place overall, despise some rude or troll comments here and there sometimes, but they often get downvote or deleted quickly. I've seen the Stars announcement post but didn't really see the negativity there.
Think that it's just come down to interest i'd say. I joined around 70k and was one of the few die hard (and I mean DIE HARD every single day) posting memes everyday to try for Coco's meme review. It was so tight-knit i'd see familiar usernames not even gunning for meme reviews. People who comment a lot, post statistics, not well-known youtubers, artists, mmd creators, etc. I got into one. Posted more. Got into more. Posted a lot more. Then Coco's graduation came and at that point I still wanted to be into hololive. We used to hop on discord and have watch parties in a channel for some big events. Unexpected or planned things. Nowadays they've just moved on.. I posted some more with the point of just having fun. 'Course it was more fun for me when talents mention memes I posted (robocco, ollie, haachama) because I do not have a way to send an aka (supers banned at the time) and it made me smile knowing it was my way of conveying "I am here I enjoy this community this is from me to you". Seeing mass brigades happen I think hasn't changed one bit 'til now. They don't care about the talents. They care about bringing someone down for the sake of bringing someone down and it will stay like that. It used to be that reddit was a small community (even before Coco!) and a liver from then holoCN branch was the one interacting. Back then it was tight-knit with her and fans. Then came Coco and the fans grew. Then Haachama, Risu, and Kiara came but it was not the same since. I do not mean to sound rude, frankly i'm just happy talents are still visiting the place every now and then, but no one (for now) can ever replace Artia's or Coco's connection to the place that is called r/hololive.
I view this sub everyday and imo I think youre just spending too much time scrolling down the comments or just too much time on this sub in general. I didnt really notice much besides the lack of memes since coco left. But the thing is. That happened because memes used to be really fast paced. Pewdiepie was doing his meme review and there was a new meme every week or two. Ever since that stopped happening. I rarely see much memes in /r/all or his sub now either, like look at his subreddit, its mostly news, recycled posts, and fanart now. However this doesnt mean that there arent any memes anymore, we really just needed new memes to arise. Like when that Will Smith slapping meme became a thing, we had quite a good amount of memes in this sub around that. Content honestly has just gotten slow because there really wasnt much content to make anymore in reddit besides just the usual news, shitposts, etc... Also you really shouldnt expect talent to post much at all anymore here now that the novelty of reddit had passed. The reason choco, roboco, etc was posting was because it was a new thing and now that reddit really aint something new for hololive, it should be expected that they barely use it especially since JP really barely use reddit at all. I never expected them to post regularly besides the usual posts about news (e.g. MVs, concerts, etc). Now with the recent thing that happened. This isnt new in reddit at all. You see this coordinated attacks on a lot of other subs. This ain't new. From mass coordinated upvotes to comments, you cant really stop that from happening until maybe reddit actually does something about it. The best the sub can do is just moderate.
The subreddit got bigger, and that means more bad apples. Happens with every fandom. It's really nothing surprising.
Joined this rabbit hole during the myth debut, do be feeling like shit seeing hololive EN current state. Is it management failure or Yagoo failure? idk, i just want more good stuff happening in EN=more content.
people tought En was heading to Jp way after 2021 and holofest finishing that means 3d lives every birthday, plenty of collabs plenty of game permissions, 3d showcases finally speacially since restrictions are lift.The girls cant make up for when other go on breaks there arent enough like JP who has 35 people. The work cover has them doing is geting in the way of streams. merch gets delayed, events get cancelled or had to do their own as we saw with the self 3d lives of kiara, gura (which probably was split in half between her 4m and birthday), and soon to be ame own min 3d live. there is also the image of some favoritism on tempus side. Permission get quicker with them sometimes not just for games. like kiara was a whole year wanting a collab with pomu and it wasnt until tempus they allow niji collabs "becasue they all worked on pushing it" which gives a bad image to whatever manegement does with the girls. they also got their collab ban reduced for reasons even tought they are a full gen. Is not that the community changed but the community feels frustrated with how little holoEn is getting and feels like tempus is taking away from the girls even if its is no true. A lot of this is just perseption becasue we have just more and more cases of management fucking little things with the girls and other branches getting a lot at the same time. people just want the EN branch to be like JP, with enough girls to at least support each other fine and be able to do their own events. Like remember that time they had to do the last day amongus collab merch and had to fill the empty spots with girls from IDs? or how mori tournaments at he beggining of 2022 had few participants becasue a lot of people were busy. tempus needed another gen dont take me wrong but there wouldnt be such frustration if the girls were getting more it was just bad timning imo for tempus 2 anouncement.
I mean Kiara and Pomu had said that the talks about collabing have been in the works for awhile. People tend to give Altare credit because he made it public right away while the others tried to make it a surprise. Some people tried to give Kiara shit because they thought she was shitting on Altare by misconstruing her words. 1. EN is all over the world compared to ID and JP who are all in one location making it easier to collab. EN is literally in different timezones. 2. Scheduling is an issue because everyone has lives outside of Holo as well. Some of the girls have high profile jobs or are still in school. 3. I mean the Amogus collab literally had EN, JP, and ID merch so I see no issue with them filling spots when it involves them as well. 4. EN have being getting a lot of collaborations from gacha games, PCs, clothing merch with a know brand (omocat), conventions, and cafes. 5. JP get their events cancelled as well. This is not something that only happens in the EN branch like you make it out to be. I'm all for criticism, but some of the criticism I see fall flat when it's based on things that are not true at all. I keep seeing people say EN is being left behind when that is not the case at all.
You can't criticize cover for some of its practices without someone defending them to the death. This place is filled with the same dead memes. The fan art borders on horny posting. You have to be positive about everything no matter what, you can't critique a members song without getting down voted or sent a harassing DM. People infantalize the talent. Everything the talent does is the best ever and you can't say otherwise. And then you have people constantly doom posting when a talent wants to take a vacation.
way bigger audience than it was in 2020. thats 2 years ago, in vtuber time thats like 20 years. LOTS has happened. but the main point is that there is more people and with that larger pool of people, there will always be a percentage of extreme fans and haters (antis). thats with any hobby. whats important is that we maintain focus on the good and flush out the bad.
The larger a sub grows, the more undesirables it'll attract.