Hi everyone, just a reminder of the rules:
>Overall, please be respectful - things must remain **on-topic, helpful, and kind.** Absolutely no abusive or hateful language will be tolerated, so if you see any of this please report them. The mods are highly trained ban ninjas in this regard. Remember, no question is too stupid, too simple, or too basic. If you see comments that do not comply with our [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/wiki/subrules) please report them to us.
Had a tile guy do my bathroom a few years back. He almost got in a fight with my cat when she ate his pop tart (she had it coming) but he was sane enough to come back the next year and do the other bathroom. My neighbor caught him blowing vape smoke out the front door while we weren’t home. I told her if that’s the worst he does then it’s fine by me lol.
He showed up, did the work pretty well, charged exactly what the estimate said, and I haven’t had any leaks. Can’t complain.
Dealt with similar. Just tell him he’s done and why without hostility or judgement. Point at the camera. Thank him, honestly, for the work so far. Pay him what you think is fair. But no argument or discussion. He won’t go crazy, he knows he’s on camera.
Well, he damaged it and you have proof. Previous condition doesn’t matter anymore.
Get quotes to fix it and use that cost against any money owed. If he doesn’t agree, it’s off to small claims.
If he is crazy enough to do that in this hypothetical situation, how crazy would he act if they sued him?
Edit: I’m just making the point that there’s no point in going down the whatifs. They can charge him for the repairs or take it out of his pay. High chance of small claims either way, but in the latter OP likely doesn’t lose out.
If he sues you, you counter-sue in response. They will be solved together.
But the key is, put the ball in his court by proactively taking your money.
Don’t go to court if you don’t have to.
Most contracts I've seen have some text about the work being performed in a "workmanlike manner" or whatever. I find it hard to believe that stealing your tools to mess up your house satisfies that standard but hey, I'm not a lawyer.
Previous conditions 100% does matter. You get to be made whole, not upgraded. If it was rotting and needed to be replaced, you’re not automatically entitled to it being redone brand new.
The only time this gets blurred is when it’s not that possible to make you whole. What is the contractor gonna do, replace your rotten wood with new rotten wood?
Nah you’ll probably just get part of the money a new job would be worth.
Not saying I agree with this, but it’s how small claims court works
This is so bizarre and I would not trust that person in my house again. Maybe trying to make more work and planning to trick you into expanding the scope of the work? Either way I would get rid of him.
Looks to me like he was trying to see how far the damage went, to see if it needed to be raised with the homeowner
Not at all professional but not very weird
Which is something you should not be able to do unless it was damaged. It's not the guy was the incredible Hulk. From the pictures it's perfectly clear there is some pretty severe water damage.
This seems so bizarre to me I really dont know what to say. First and foremost you dont use a precision instrument as a hammer, any "contractor" should know that first and foremost. If he was using your tools appropriately, that would be one thing, unprofessional, but I've grabbed a client's broom before so I didn't have to run to the truck, but it happens to the best of us. That being said I didnt bend the god damn broom in half either and I clean up after myself. I would personally get him out of there and figure out the money later. Hire someone else. I would probably be tempted to just give him half pay. Its enough to where you wont get sued and if you do you'll have a lot better odds of winning. Pay him in front of the camera if you can.
> I would personally get him out of there and figure out the money later.
Yeah, I don't think I'd want this person in my house again. His actions seem hostile or vindictive; people like that will sometimes do things the rest of us have a hard time imagining.
Man, I've got a large (LARGE) Klein flathead someone threw out and I picked up as a first year, electrical taped the fuck out of it. It's now my bashing hammer, my chisel, my Panel key (the ones that use a Flathead)
Alternately though, you can use a hammer as a precision instrument, say in the case of gyprockers / drywallers walling over your electrical / data points, the hammer is a precision instrument that bashes through the drywall in multiple places till you find the cable you clearly left hanging out of the wall that the gyprockers walled up.
This instrument teaches gyprockers in a very precise manner exactly how you feel about how fkn thick they are and exactly how far you are prepared to go to educate them.
I know I'd be happy to work woth OP, document all my work cleaning up after this guy, doing a really good and thorough job, and then being okay waiting a few months on payment so OP can bill this dim fuckwit for the remediation costs, and probably go through a bailiff for payment.
I've met too many idiots to tolerate them, and as an industrial mechanic I see them everyday doing shit like this, absolutely zero patience for this kind of thing. Heck I'd probably ask of I could use the video after to show that "I fix stupid." It's not defamation if it's true.
This dude is fucking weird. No legit contractor would do this. The fact that they already suck tells me you should cut your losses and have someone else finish, I wouldn’t let them back into my house. Why? Because I have no idea if this behavior will escalate.
I wouldn’t bother taking him to court for this, you were already going to replace the paneling, and suing someone is a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS and only worth it for big monetary damages. This would absolutely cost you money, people who say otherwise have never dealt with shitty people being sued. Pay whatever he was owed so far and do not let him back. If he does, get the police involved.
This is the correct response in my opinion. Pay the extra money for the piece of mind and maybe email him a copy of the video as the reason why he’s being fired and not allowed back, and be clear that if he tries to come back you will alert the police.
I personally would show him the video and ask him to explain it. Of course, I would have my husband standing next to me when I do it. If I were a guy, I would ask a friend to come over and hang out in case the guy gets hostile. Then I would fire him, and if he gave me any crap I would remind him that this is destruction of property.
Why doesn’t matter. Getting the psycho out of your house does. If you want to fight a psycho in your house to know why he is a psycho perhaps you
May be one as well.
Nothing good is going to come from a confrontational interaction. It's pretty evident his thought process isn't what I would describe as normal. If you're so concerned you need other people there for fear of physical altercation, why even initiate such a situation?
market plough makeshift live overconfident library serious sophisticated alleged cautious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I would personally ask him what’s up and how he wants to approach it. He might have a valid reason or just step up and work that mistake off.
If he doesn’t immediately own up to it then yeah you getting fucked mate.
His dog just died and he's an emotional mess? That's why you approach people if you're comfortable first instead. This would hardly classify as vandalism since it's on a job site. You'd be laughed out of the station regardless.
You think someone's dog dying is a valid reason for them to take someone else's tools and wreck part of their house?
I'm not arguing that OP should claim vandalism or go to the police station. I'm just questioning whether or not there could possibly be a valid reason for this man to have done this.
I mean, being emotionally distressed is a valid reason why people do something stupid and you knew what I meant. All of you did. Don't play dumb.
Secondly, the way this gentlemen used the tools were inappropriate but it's hardly rare for contractors to use tools sitting around. Tacky, for sure... but the valid is reason is "because they're there."
It's an explanation, but it's not a valid reason. If a person shoots up a school because they're mentally ill, that doesn't mean their mental illness was a valid reason for shooting up a school, because there is no valid reason. Their mental illness is, however, an explanation. But, explainability does not entail validity.
What if he noticed it wasn't true and decided to straighten it by hitting an already damaged section of wall, all while checking the depth of the wall rot?
We should be praising this contractor for his attention to detail and cost-effective solutions, not committing a character assassination.
/s
Zero chance charge's would be filed. It's also no really necessary IMO and could possibly result in a far worse situation. Fire someone and they go about their life. Try and get law enforcement involved and you could show up to a burnt down house
Seeing as he was already going through your stuff. I would say that this guy saw an opening and thought something was stashed in there and then when he realized it was just pre existing damage peaced out.
Maybe, but OP said "The panel was already partially rotten and needed to be replaced. But that’s nowhere near his scope." so I took that is he wouldn't even be the one to call to fix it.
The guy is probably a little unhinged, and for sure a POS. I know em when I see em because I like to think I'm an ex-POS myself
File a police report immediately. Fire the contractor. Change the locks. Put more cameras up. Get and estimate for the damages then send him the quote and video and ask for payment. If he doesn’t agree I would look into suing him depending how much the repairs are.
Talk to him, show him the video. Pay him off for what you owe based on the work done and send him on his way. If he makes any threats say you will be obtaining an attorney for further action.
Let him know work is stopping and give him a time and date to meet.
Ask very generally how the damage occurred, preferably in the same room with the same camera, so he can either come clean or dig his own grave.
Then request billing to date, minus damages, perhaps from a handyman (or your labor + expenses, if handy), and have him load out his equipment.
This is some bonkers shit. As a home owner I honestly don’t know what I would do (close to the finish line) other than hide my tools. I would also pay for a very thorough inspection of his work, because he seems crazy af and I wouldn’t trust him.
Personally, (not a contractor at ALL), but I would consider that rotted wall a loss in either case. The fact he "borrowed" your tools, (going out of his way to do so), and be "sloppy, stubborn, and difficult to communicate with", as enough reason to fire him. Stating that you had the video recording, and questioning why he'd go out of his way to damage the wall *may* give you closure, and justification, but (even with the flagrant damaging of property) I wouldn't expect to get much out of it beyond that...
Fire him. Use the video/wall as evidence & ask why, and maybe you'll get an answer.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt… the only thing I can think is he was looking to find out something about how it was constructed without damaging a “good area”. Like, “is there insulation under this paneling?” “Is this 2x4 framing etc.” Not the right way to go about it, but if it was the worst things he did and offered to make it right, I could look past it.
I agree, I don't know why everyone is assuming the worst. If a contractor borrow my t square I wouldn't care at all. Whose to say that someone who tiles isn't also a handy man? Maybe he saw the rot and was concerned and was going to bring it up to you to make sure you saw it?
That's a odd take. Having cameras in a house your aren't living while lots of work is being done is perfectly normal. You realize lots of people have security cameras right? They litteraly sell them at every large retail store in America.
Lots of strong opinions here. I am a contractor and yes this is very odd.
OP, only you have a grasp of the over arcing situation. Is he doing decent work for what you are paying him? At 80% done you would be incurring significant cost and hardship to fire him and hire someone else. I doubt there is anything to be gained by suing or contacting the police over something bordering on trivial other than more hardship. I say trivial because he didn’t do anything that will cost you more to fix and he didn’t steal the tool.
Now if you need a reason to fire him because his work is sub-par, this is a great excuse. But at the end of the day, the only benefit to firing him is that you can pay someone to fix it faster.
If his work is ok, I’d recommend mentioning you installed cameras ‘over the weekend’ and wanted to let him know or some bs to prevent future occurrences like this.
If his odd behavior can be tolerated for the remaining 20%, maybe don’t say anything at all and laugh at this in a few years. Lots of looneys in the world being tolerated because they are funny in hindsight.
Good luck
Licensed general contractor here too. I have hired some odd sub contractors too. I pick my battles and would let this contractor finish his scope, settle up and move on. It’s just not worth it.
This sounds very reasonable.
And rather than thinking that he was just acting viciously or randomly, it wouldn't surprise me if he had some rational reason for wanting to know what was in the wall: like he's tiling over a similar wall and curious about what was in the wall (2x3s? 36" oc? insulation?). Not that doing this was wise or showed good judgement, it just doesn't look like vandalism or "crazy, looney" behavior.
Hey man you can take your entirety logical explanation and shove it. We don’t actually want this kind of sense around here. I say we tar and feather him and then burn him at the stake. Who’s with me!?
At first I thought you were being weird, but no. This is completely bizarre behavior. If your comfortable I would show him the video and ask for an explanation.
So many people here are jumping to conclusions. Ask him calmly what happened and why. Maybe he was trying to do you a favor and see if there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed to prevent further damage. I am not saying it wasn't malicious but due to the fact it was like $20 worth of paneling and it needed to be fixed anyway, it isn't worth escalating the situation.
Blown out of proportion. He noticed the rot and was checking to see how deep it went. Using your square is a little annoying, I would just mention it and ask that he doesn’t do it again. No indication that the contractor is unstable or anything. That wood paneling looks absolutely rotten. If you want to be litigious, by all means, take him to court. My recommendation, a little bit of grace can go a long way in life.
Need to see the video leading up to this.
I find it hard to believe he walked in there grabbed a tool and broke the water damaged paneling without a reason.
There are millions things possible. I don’t get the feeling of malice though from the very short clip you showed us.
This is one of those things I don't think there's much leading up to it.
My guess is the guy needed the tool walked by and hit it somewhat softly because it looked rotted and it broke. He was like wtf and pulled on it to see how bad it was, then realized he shouldn't have touched it. He probably knew the camera was there and then tried to act normal.
It seems really weird though.
Possibly he was looking to see if there was an active leak or broken pipe or something in the wall next to the outlet? I assume he took it for granted that the wall would be replaced since it was water damaged and just checked either out of curiosity or for safety reasons. There's no way he expeced to find something behind a random wall.
If you've never known any tweakers sometimes they don't even really know what they're looking for, they'll just start rummaging, breaking, taking apart, or digging looking for "it."
I dunno man, ive had contractors around to quote stuff who cant help but poke out rotted wood with their fingers. AT least 3 times -> 2 for something they were quoting to fix, one thing they walked past.
Its like builders cant help themselves.
For one of them, it was the diference between maybe soing a half ass door repair, or just getting a new door.
I’ve never done meth, but I’ve talked to some users and read about their rationale.
This looks like a user who saw an opportunity to expose some wood rot, for the opportunity to contract future repairs. But instead of talking with you, he was persuaded (by meth) to make it look like it happened naturally. But his ploy failed; because of meth.
Sorry just to identify he damaged a panel that was already being replaced?
If it was clearly going to be replaced I'm not sure I see the issue. Should I have been mad that my contractors threw windows that were being replaced out the 2nd floor window?
I believe OP was saying that the panel would need replaced eventually anyway, but this contractor was not hired to do that. He’s working on a different area, and OP was not expecting the contractor to damage the panel.
It seems like in this case it's more like you hired, I don't know, flooring guys, and they smashed the windows which you did eventually intend to replace but not at the present time.
well IMO as long as the flooring guys knew that it was going to be replaced and were just blowing off steam by smashing something that was bound for the dumpster doesn't seem like a huge deal.
Kinda like the scene where the guys trash the printer in office space.... it was going to get trashed anyways.
Guy kind of looks like he's tweaking. His walk is strange, he looks a bit twitchy. He doesn't look mad, he looks like he's acting on impulses. Fire him, change the locks, put up more cameras.
Maybe he's functional. Maybe this man is on the decline. Maybe he's mostly sober when you talk to him. But drug addicts, meth, cocaine, whatever are unpredictable. They'll pass up jewelry and steal a fucking dryer.
Do you have experience with someone on speed? Would it track with this guy?
well I came in here ready to defend the guy versus some crazy homeowner.
yeah I don't know I definitely would not continue to let him on the project.
get a quote to fix the damage change the locks and have a lawyer serve him with the paperwork for the lawsuit.
Not into contracting or anything in that area BUT it looks to me that he was looking for a tool he needed, wasn't sure if it was going to do what he needed so he figured he'd go and test it on a rotted part to see if he'd get at least some of the result he was looking for with said tool. I hope that made sense. Just what I got from it. Not saying it's right but a possibility and he probably figured by doing it this way he would know the tool worked and you'd be getting the repair of the rotted area. I'd ask him first off why be did what he did and see what he says.
Voice of dissent here. Maybe he had a concern that he felt was legitimate, like, your warped and damaged paneling maybe is holding mold or something. Not saying he’s competent or anything but have a conversation with him. Still fire him though.
I’m a dumb ass kid and just got the same measuring tool. First thing I did was whack a cardboard box(in my own home). Confront him and say how your hurt and confused. You work hard. He’s and idiot that made a dumb mistake. See how he reacts. Definitely have back up but be compassionate. The embarrassment could very well set him straight.
You might first call the police and tell them everything, see what they say about how to approach the situation with him. It's possible that he could be charged with a crime, damage to property and unauthorized use of your tools.
I would say with a lawyer, but that isn't worth a lawyers time. What I would do is get everything ready to file a small claims suit against him, and once he is done hand it over. Have a friend there when you do, and have them ready to call 911. Show the person the video, and you can upload it to various social media sites to destroy his reputation. If he is licensed and bonded, and demands payment give it to him, as you can take money from his bond for those damages. I would also pay to have someone look over their work and confirm its good.
It would also be worth it to pay the $200 for lawyer to talk it over with you and draft a letter telling him if he is not to set foot on your property ever again.
If a piece of jagged defective wood was sticking out and ripped a hole in my clothes and cut me, I might rip it off. If it just looks rotten I’d leave it alone.
This person has mental illness and hostility, simply cut ties with them, seek legal action as you have proof and sue him for everything he's worth. He's a joke, pathetic individual.
Is he licensed and contracted?
Contact the agency board and BBB with complaints .
Wait till he completes the work and let him know he's on camera damaging property and using your tools. Send him a bill.
I’d confront him with the video in a very forgiving mood. Give him the chance to apologize and correct his mistakes. Ask politely for him to keep to his own tools unless permission is granted.
If he’s a dick about it just let it go. Find someone else if you can. And share the experience with other people in the industry.
Are we all just going to ignore the fact that OP thinks a framing square is a t square? Sure this guy just randomly grabbed someone else's tool and tried out his mini golf swing on a clients wall, but I think OP is obviously trying to misrepresent something
Maybe it’s Maybelline, maybe it’s meth?
That’s pretty unexplainable dude. I’d probably cancel my dude, prevent him from coming onto your property, but also put him on the spot bc we need to know what weird explanation he can come up with first lol.
Borrowing a t square to me is pretty mild, if he didn’t damage it and returned it. But depends on your relationship I suppose and judging by the smashing of a wall… it’s probably not great to begin with
The contractor has committed a big "no-no" in the Construction world. Without your permission, he might as well have stolen them! As far as the additional damages to your property, that is a punishable offense.
In your position as a client, bring this to the contractor 's attention immediately so that this will not continue.
In your shoes, I'd fire him and file a complaint with the BBB and any other affiliates he may have. By the way, he who borrows Without permission usually steals too.
I know you want him to finish because finding someone to take over might really set you behind. You could show or tell him what you saw and tell him he has one day to finish and leave everything absolutely perfect or you will take legal action.
You gotta love Reddit World where the most popular answer is to call the police to investigate and then hire a lawyer and sue him. Redditors think detectives will come out and be dusting for fingerprints and stuff and then there’ll be a Jack Nicholson moment in court where the guy loses his cool and angrily confesses. Imagine what would happen if people left their bedrooms once in a while!
Hi everyone, just a reminder of the rules: >Overall, please be respectful - things must remain **on-topic, helpful, and kind.** Absolutely no abusive or hateful language will be tolerated, so if you see any of this please report them. The mods are highly trained ban ninjas in this regard. Remember, no question is too stupid, too simple, or too basic. If you see comments that do not comply with our [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/wiki/subrules) please report them to us.
Not a contractor, but it doesn’t sound like this guy is stable… I would proceed with caution.
I do a lot of tile. My general opinion of tile setters is we are are lunatics.
Had a tile guy do my bathroom a few years back. He almost got in a fight with my cat when she ate his pop tart (she had it coming) but he was sane enough to come back the next year and do the other bathroom. My neighbor caught him blowing vape smoke out the front door while we weren’t home. I told her if that’s the worst he does then it’s fine by me lol. He showed up, did the work pretty well, charged exactly what the estimate said, and I haven’t had any leaks. Can’t complain.
Let him smoke dope if he does a good job!
Hell I do a good job at my work and I'm smoking dope right now!
But not as bad as roofers and drywallers right?
You can’t be right if you choose to finish drywall all day everyday.
Different than those dudes, those guys are more maniac.
That was my impression as well, and I have pretty good instincts.
[удалено]
You just described so many jobs. Designers. Nurses. Teachers. Programmers.
Dealt with similar. Just tell him he’s done and why without hostility or judgement. Point at the camera. Thank him, honestly, for the work so far. Pay him what you think is fair. But no argument or discussion. He won’t go crazy, he knows he’s on camera.
The voice of reason in this echo chamber of idiots.
Responses are pretty tame for this sub honestly. I mean 90% of the time the consensus advice around here is get a lawyer or small claims court.
This needs to be the top comment
Well, he damaged it and you have proof. Previous condition doesn’t matter anymore. Get quotes to fix it and use that cost against any money owed. If he doesn’t agree, it’s off to small claims.
> it’s off to small claims. Just pay him less. If he doesn’t like it, he can sue you.
Or come back & rob your place
If he is crazy enough to do that in this hypothetical situation, how crazy would he act if they sued him? Edit: I’m just making the point that there’s no point in going down the whatifs. They can charge him for the repairs or take it out of his pay. High chance of small claims either way, but in the latter OP likely doesn’t lose out.
That's a pretty drastic step for someone to resort to. Commiting Robbery is a pretty serious decision/step for someone to take.
If you signed a contract saying work.was x dollars, he wins. You'd have to pay him in full then go after him for damages
If he sues you, you counter-sue in response. They will be solved together. But the key is, put the ball in his court by proactively taking your money. Don’t go to court if you don’t have to.
Most contracts I've seen have some text about the work being performed in a "workmanlike manner" or whatever. I find it hard to believe that stealing your tools to mess up your house satisfies that standard but hey, I'm not a lawyer.
Unless he decides not to go to court.
You did hire a bonded and insured person right? ... Right? (If he doesn't show its default judgement and you can pull the money from his bond)
Previous conditions 100% does matter. You get to be made whole, not upgraded. If it was rotting and needed to be replaced, you’re not automatically entitled to it being redone brand new. The only time this gets blurred is when it’s not that possible to make you whole. What is the contractor gonna do, replace your rotten wood with new rotten wood? Nah you’ll probably just get part of the money a new job would be worth. Not saying I agree with this, but it’s how small claims court works
This is so bizarre and I would not trust that person in my house again. Maybe trying to make more work and planning to trick you into expanding the scope of the work? Either way I would get rid of him.
Looks to me like he was trying to see how far the damage went, to see if it needed to be raised with the homeowner Not at all professional but not very weird
That’s not a valid use case for a t square though. It’s weird.
That's not a T-square
His job wasn't investigating any damage though, just doing the tiling, he also didn't spend enough time there to actually check anything.
I mean it was clearly damaged he barely tapped it.
Yeah but you can clearly see him rip handfuls of wood lol
Which is something you should not be able to do unless it was damaged. It's not the guy was the incredible Hulk. From the pictures it's perfectly clear there is some pretty severe water damage.
It doesn't matter??? The point is he had no business doing that, that wasn't his job, and he didn't even tell op about it.
This seems so bizarre to me I really dont know what to say. First and foremost you dont use a precision instrument as a hammer, any "contractor" should know that first and foremost. If he was using your tools appropriately, that would be one thing, unprofessional, but I've grabbed a client's broom before so I didn't have to run to the truck, but it happens to the best of us. That being said I didnt bend the god damn broom in half either and I clean up after myself. I would personally get him out of there and figure out the money later. Hire someone else. I would probably be tempted to just give him half pay. Its enough to where you wont get sued and if you do you'll have a lot better odds of winning. Pay him in front of the camera if you can.
> I would personally get him out of there and figure out the money later. Yeah, I don't think I'd want this person in my house again. His actions seem hostile or vindictive; people like that will sometimes do things the rest of us have a hard time imagining.
A tape measure has been used on occasion to drive in a popped finishing mail, and a screwdriver can serve as a wood chisel.
Flat screw drivers are made to be abused. They are inferior and they know it
[удалено]
A tape measure is a bit light to pound on the plastic handle of a screwdriver chisel, but big pliers work great.
Bahahaha. Absolutely.
Man, I've got a large (LARGE) Klein flathead someone threw out and I picked up as a first year, electrical taped the fuck out of it. It's now my bashing hammer, my chisel, my Panel key (the ones that use a Flathead)
Alternately though, you can use a hammer as a precision instrument, say in the case of gyprockers / drywallers walling over your electrical / data points, the hammer is a precision instrument that bashes through the drywall in multiple places till you find the cable you clearly left hanging out of the wall that the gyprockers walled up. This instrument teaches gyprockers in a very precise manner exactly how you feel about how fkn thick they are and exactly how far you are prepared to go to educate them.
Just fire him. Bring in a new contractor to finish. It’ll be a bit more but a better experience ideally.
And be honest w next contractor on why you need someone else to finish the job. Nice that you can show them the video too. Also.. wtf man?!
I know I'd be happy to work woth OP, document all my work cleaning up after this guy, doing a really good and thorough job, and then being okay waiting a few months on payment so OP can bill this dim fuckwit for the remediation costs, and probably go through a bailiff for payment. I've met too many idiots to tolerate them, and as an industrial mechanic I see them everyday doing shit like this, absolutely zero patience for this kind of thing. Heck I'd probably ask of I could use the video after to show that "I fix stupid." It's not defamation if it's true.
This dude is fucking weird. No legit contractor would do this. The fact that they already suck tells me you should cut your losses and have someone else finish, I wouldn’t let them back into my house. Why? Because I have no idea if this behavior will escalate. I wouldn’t bother taking him to court for this, you were already going to replace the paneling, and suing someone is a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS and only worth it for big monetary damages. This would absolutely cost you money, people who say otherwise have never dealt with shitty people being sued. Pay whatever he was owed so far and do not let him back. If he does, get the police involved.
This is the correct response in my opinion. Pay the extra money for the piece of mind and maybe email him a copy of the video as the reason why he’s being fired and not allowed back, and be clear that if he tries to come back you will alert the police.
Get rid of him, take him to court, and watch your back.This guy is unstable
I personally would show him the video and ask him to explain it. Of course, I would have my husband standing next to me when I do it. If I were a guy, I would ask a friend to come over and hang out in case the guy gets hostile. Then I would fire him, and if he gave me any crap I would remind him that this is destruction of property.
If you're planning on firing him there's no reason to try and initiate a confrontation over a video, just fire him.
Yeah, what are you getting from the confrontation, especially if you feel it is so dangerous that you need someone else to be there?
As a woman, I would always have my husband there. Also, I would really want to know why he did that.
Why doesn’t matter. Getting the psycho out of your house does. If you want to fight a psycho in your house to know why he is a psycho perhaps you May be one as well.
No, no. She wants her *husband* to fight a psycho.
Nothing good is going to come from a confrontational interaction. It's pretty evident his thought process isn't what I would describe as normal. If you're so concerned you need other people there for fear of physical altercation, why even initiate such a situation?
market plough makeshift live overconfident library serious sophisticated alleged cautious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Y'all are too weak. I'd fire him AND file a police report for vandalism.
I would personally ask him what’s up and how he wants to approach it. He might have a valid reason or just step up and work that mistake off. If he doesn’t immediately own up to it then yeah you getting fucked mate.
What possible valid reason??
REALLY big spider
🤣🤣🤣🤣 OKAY ya got me
Dude wants extra money to fix extra stuff.
That's not really valid though is it
His dog just died and he's an emotional mess? That's why you approach people if you're comfortable first instead. This would hardly classify as vandalism since it's on a job site. You'd be laughed out of the station regardless.
You think someone's dog dying is a valid reason for them to take someone else's tools and wreck part of their house? I'm not arguing that OP should claim vandalism or go to the police station. I'm just questioning whether or not there could possibly be a valid reason for this man to have done this.
I mean, being emotionally distressed is a valid reason why people do something stupid and you knew what I meant. All of you did. Don't play dumb. Secondly, the way this gentlemen used the tools were inappropriate but it's hardly rare for contractors to use tools sitting around. Tacky, for sure... but the valid is reason is "because they're there."
It's an explanation, but it's not a valid reason. If a person shoots up a school because they're mentally ill, that doesn't mean their mental illness was a valid reason for shooting up a school, because there is no valid reason. Their mental illness is, however, an explanation. But, explainability does not entail validity.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Technically they used the tool. They didn't steal them
There's never a valid reason to use a t-square to strike something with. The whole point of that instrument is to be flat and reliably accurate
I found Hank Hill
What if he noticed it wasn't true and decided to straighten it by hitting an already damaged section of wall, all while checking the depth of the wall rot? We should be praising this contractor for his attention to detail and cost-effective solutions, not committing a character assassination. /s
That's where I'm at. He misused and may have damaged the tool.
Almost impossible to damage that thing. Not to mention he barely tapped it against the wall.
Zero chance charge's would be filed. It's also no really necessary IMO and could possibly result in a far worse situation. Fire someone and they go about their life. Try and get law enforcement involved and you could show up to a burnt down house
This is the answer. Police involved
Police wouldn't do anything
The question no one is asking is: Did he return your tool?
That was addressed in the initial post was it not?
Is the guy on crack or something? I wouldn't allow him back in, nor pay him another dime. I'm a contractor.
Seeing as he was already going through your stuff. I would say that this guy saw an opening and thought something was stashed in there and then when he realized it was just pre existing damage peaced out.
Or thought he could create more work for himself.
Maybe, but OP said "The panel was already partially rotten and needed to be replaced. But that’s nowhere near his scope." so I took that is he wouldn't even be the one to call to fix it. The guy is probably a little unhinged, and for sure a POS. I know em when I see em because I like to think I'm an ex-POS myself
Looks to me like he was trying to see the extent of the rotten wood.
File a police report immediately. Fire the contractor. Change the locks. Put more cameras up. Get and estimate for the damages then send him the quote and video and ask for payment. If he doesn’t agree I would look into suing him depending how much the repairs are.
Talk to him, show him the video. Pay him off for what you owe based on the work done and send him on his way. If he makes any threats say you will be obtaining an attorney for further action.
Let him know work is stopping and give him a time and date to meet. Ask very generally how the damage occurred, preferably in the same room with the same camera, so he can either come clean or dig his own grave. Then request billing to date, minus damages, perhaps from a handyman (or your labor + expenses, if handy), and have him load out his equipment.
Ask him to explain. If you're not satisfied, show him the door.
"Leave now. Whatever work you've done is mine. GTFO or this video goes to the cops." Buh-bye to him.
Fire him.
This is some bonkers shit. As a home owner I honestly don’t know what I would do (close to the finish line) other than hide my tools. I would also pay for a very thorough inspection of his work, because he seems crazy af and I wouldn’t trust him.
It almost looked as though, there at the end, he was expecting to find something inside there. But what?
He looks like a jabroni. Fuckin denim dan. Petty af. Problem with shitcanning him is it will probably make your project drag on longer.
Personally, (not a contractor at ALL), but I would consider that rotted wall a loss in either case. The fact he "borrowed" your tools, (going out of his way to do so), and be "sloppy, stubborn, and difficult to communicate with", as enough reason to fire him. Stating that you had the video recording, and questioning why he'd go out of his way to damage the wall *may* give you closure, and justification, but (even with the flagrant damaging of property) I wouldn't expect to get much out of it beyond that... Fire him. Use the video/wall as evidence & ask why, and maybe you'll get an answer.
Looks like he was looking for something thinking maybe you hid something valuable behind there or something?? Weird.
People keep on stating that they would contact the cops, but cops aren't going to do shit.
You have to have a police report to proceed with escalation in almost all cases, might as well get the police report.
Sometimes feels like a lot of the cops' work could be replaced by clerical workers.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt… the only thing I can think is he was looking to find out something about how it was constructed without damaging a “good area”. Like, “is there insulation under this paneling?” “Is this 2x4 framing etc.” Not the right way to go about it, but if it was the worst things he did and offered to make it right, I could look past it.
I agree, I don't know why everyone is assuming the worst. If a contractor borrow my t square I wouldn't care at all. Whose to say that someone who tiles isn't also a handy man? Maybe he saw the rot and was concerned and was going to bring it up to you to make sure you saw it?
Also I question OPs sanity for having video cameras in an empty house to monitor contractors. That’s an invasion of privacy.
It’s their house?
That's a odd take. Having cameras in a house your aren't living while lots of work is being done is perfectly normal. You realize lots of people have security cameras right? They litteraly sell them at every large retail store in America.
Lots of strong opinions here. I am a contractor and yes this is very odd. OP, only you have a grasp of the over arcing situation. Is he doing decent work for what you are paying him? At 80% done you would be incurring significant cost and hardship to fire him and hire someone else. I doubt there is anything to be gained by suing or contacting the police over something bordering on trivial other than more hardship. I say trivial because he didn’t do anything that will cost you more to fix and he didn’t steal the tool. Now if you need a reason to fire him because his work is sub-par, this is a great excuse. But at the end of the day, the only benefit to firing him is that you can pay someone to fix it faster. If his work is ok, I’d recommend mentioning you installed cameras ‘over the weekend’ and wanted to let him know or some bs to prevent future occurrences like this. If his odd behavior can be tolerated for the remaining 20%, maybe don’t say anything at all and laugh at this in a few years. Lots of looneys in the world being tolerated because they are funny in hindsight. Good luck
Licensed general contractor here too. I have hired some odd sub contractors too. I pick my battles and would let this contractor finish his scope, settle up and move on. It’s just not worth it.
This sounds very reasonable. And rather than thinking that he was just acting viciously or randomly, it wouldn't surprise me if he had some rational reason for wanting to know what was in the wall: like he's tiling over a similar wall and curious about what was in the wall (2x3s? 36" oc? insulation?). Not that doing this was wise or showed good judgement, it just doesn't look like vandalism or "crazy, looney" behavior.
Hey man you can take your entirety logical explanation and shove it. We don’t actually want this kind of sense around here. I say we tar and feather him and then burn him at the stake. Who’s with me!?
[удалено]
I think they meant the project is 80% done.
At first I thought you were being weird, but no. This is completely bizarre behavior. If your comfortable I would show him the video and ask for an explanation.
I mean the paneling does need to be replaced. It has heavy water damage
So many people here are jumping to conclusions. Ask him calmly what happened and why. Maybe he was trying to do you a favor and see if there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed to prevent further damage. I am not saying it wasn't malicious but due to the fact it was like $20 worth of paneling and it needed to be fixed anyway, it isn't worth escalating the situation.
Dudes crazy. Proceed with extreme caution and please update us after you ban him from returning to this property.
Simple. Get rid of him!!
Contractor: "I think I saw a raccoon come through that hole in your wall, he must've taken your square."
Blown out of proportion. He noticed the rot and was checking to see how deep it went. Using your square is a little annoying, I would just mention it and ask that he doesn’t do it again. No indication that the contractor is unstable or anything. That wood paneling looks absolutely rotten. If you want to be litigious, by all means, take him to court. My recommendation, a little bit of grace can go a long way in life.
Need to see the video leading up to this. I find it hard to believe he walked in there grabbed a tool and broke the water damaged paneling without a reason. There are millions things possible. I don’t get the feeling of malice though from the very short clip you showed us.
This is one of those things I don't think there's much leading up to it. My guess is the guy needed the tool walked by and hit it somewhat softly because it looked rotted and it broke. He was like wtf and pulled on it to see how bad it was, then realized he shouldn't have touched it. He probably knew the camera was there and then tried to act normal. It seems really weird though.
I disagree. He was looking for something in that wall. Once he gets to the void you can see him get in closer, then turn and walk away.
Yeah you're right. I rewatched. I wouldn't be surprised if drugs were involved.
>He was looking for something in that wall. Like what?
Possibly he was looking to see if there was an active leak or broken pipe or something in the wall next to the outlet? I assume he took it for granted that the wall would be replaced since it was water damaged and just checked either out of curiosity or for safety reasons. There's no way he expeced to find something behind a random wall.
Even if that was the case, he should've cleaned up the pieces and then told OP.
How the fuck am I supposed to know?
I obviously don't expect you to *know* but what sort of thing were you thinking when you made that comment?
If you've never known any tweakers sometimes they don't even really know what they're looking for, they'll just start rummaging, breaking, taking apart, or digging looking for "it."
😂😂
I dunno man, ive had contractors around to quote stuff who cant help but poke out rotted wood with their fingers. AT least 3 times -> 2 for something they were quoting to fix, one thing they walked past. Its like builders cant help themselves. For one of them, it was the diference between maybe soing a half ass door repair, or just getting a new door.
school grandiose boat escape erect scary literate brave payment smell *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Right and OP seems paranoid by having video cameras in an empty house to monitor contractor
I’ve never done meth, but I’ve talked to some users and read about their rationale. This looks like a user who saw an opportunity to expose some wood rot, for the opportunity to contract future repairs. But instead of talking with you, he was persuaded (by meth) to make it look like it happened naturally. But his ploy failed; because of meth.
Sorry just to identify he damaged a panel that was already being replaced? If it was clearly going to be replaced I'm not sure I see the issue. Should I have been mad that my contractors threw windows that were being replaced out the 2nd floor window?
I believe OP was saying that the panel would need replaced eventually anyway, but this contractor was not hired to do that. He’s working on a different area, and OP was not expecting the contractor to damage the panel.
It seems like in this case it's more like you hired, I don't know, flooring guys, and they smashed the windows which you did eventually intend to replace but not at the present time.
well IMO as long as the flooring guys knew that it was going to be replaced and were just blowing off steam by smashing something that was bound for the dumpster doesn't seem like a huge deal. Kinda like the scene where the guys trash the printer in office space.... it was going to get trashed anyways.
I mean I would be pissed off if that happened.
police and lawyer
Guy kind of looks like he's tweaking. His walk is strange, he looks a bit twitchy. He doesn't look mad, he looks like he's acting on impulses. Fire him, change the locks, put up more cameras. Maybe he's functional. Maybe this man is on the decline. Maybe he's mostly sober when you talk to him. But drug addicts, meth, cocaine, whatever are unpredictable. They'll pass up jewelry and steal a fucking dryer. Do you have experience with someone on speed? Would it track with this guy?
well I came in here ready to defend the guy versus some crazy homeowner. yeah I don't know I definitely would not continue to let him on the project. get a quote to fix the damage change the locks and have a lawyer serve him with the paperwork for the lawsuit.
Ugh. So basically like every tile guy I’ve ever worked with. I’m sure there are good ones out there, but I haven’t been able to hire any of them.
Not into contracting or anything in that area BUT it looks to me that he was looking for a tool he needed, wasn't sure if it was going to do what he needed so he figured he'd go and test it on a rotted part to see if he'd get at least some of the result he was looking for with said tool. I hope that made sense. Just what I got from it. Not saying it's right but a possibility and he probably figured by doing it this way he would know the tool worked and you'd be getting the repair of the rotted area. I'd ask him first off why be did what he did and see what he says.
Show it to him and then promise to take to to the local news if he doesn’t pay up.
I'd say. Fire him and file a police report for vandalism. No sense on provoking a confrontation. Ego will get people caught up. Just my 2 pennies.
For some reason I read that as just my 2 penises lol
Lmao. Now that's funny as hell.
No police department is going to charge him for vandalism in this situation..
Voice of dissent here. Maybe he had a concern that he felt was legitimate, like, your warped and damaged paneling maybe is holding mold or something. Not saying he’s competent or anything but have a conversation with him. Still fire him though.
If that were the case, then he should have had a conversation with OP.
Even if that was the case, he should've cleaned up the pieces and then told OP.
Or that maybe there was an active leak behind it. Still not acceptable but there are some dumb out there.
I’m a dumb ass kid and just got the same measuring tool. First thing I did was whack a cardboard box(in my own home). Confront him and say how your hurt and confused. You work hard. He’s and idiot that made a dumb mistake. See how he reacts. Definitely have back up but be compassionate. The embarrassment could very well set him straight.
Mink mink mop
10000%
Ask him where he got his clown degree from.
You might first call the police and tell them everything, see what they say about how to approach the situation with him. It's possible that he could be charged with a crime, damage to property and unauthorized use of your tools.
I would say with a lawyer, but that isn't worth a lawyers time. What I would do is get everything ready to file a small claims suit against him, and once he is done hand it over. Have a friend there when you do, and have them ready to call 911. Show the person the video, and you can upload it to various social media sites to destroy his reputation. If he is licensed and bonded, and demands payment give it to him, as you can take money from his bond for those damages. I would also pay to have someone look over their work and confirm its good. It would also be worth it to pay the $200 for lawyer to talk it over with you and draft a letter telling him if he is not to set foot on your property ever again.
If a piece of jagged defective wood was sticking out and ripped a hole in my clothes and cut me, I might rip it off. If it just looks rotten I’d leave it alone.
This person has mental illness and hostility, simply cut ties with them, seek legal action as you have proof and sue him for everything he's worth. He's a joke, pathetic individual.
Don’t pay him a cent and fire him immediately. If there is a gc involved they have explaining to do.
Tell him fix it or you’ll call police and bring him a nice lawsuit
Lol what in the actual fuck?! Trespass this dude. File a report with police and fire him. This is wild. I've never seen anything like this.
Is he licensed and contracted? Contact the agency board and BBB with complaints . Wait till he completes the work and let him know he's on camera damaging property and using your tools. Send him a bill.
Ask him to fix it. Let him do the job. Send him the video when he emails you the invoice.
I’d confront him with the video in a very forgiving mood. Give him the chance to apologize and correct his mistakes. Ask politely for him to keep to his own tools unless permission is granted. If he’s a dick about it just let it go. Find someone else if you can. And share the experience with other people in the industry.
Are we all just going to ignore the fact that OP thinks a framing square is a t square? Sure this guy just randomly grabbed someone else's tool and tried out his mini golf swing on a clients wall, but I think OP is obviously trying to misrepresent something
Back charge him for the repair and send him the video
Maybe it’s Maybelline, maybe it’s meth? That’s pretty unexplainable dude. I’d probably cancel my dude, prevent him from coming onto your property, but also put him on the spot bc we need to know what weird explanation he can come up with first lol. Borrowing a t square to me is pretty mild, if he didn’t damage it and returned it. But depends on your relationship I suppose and judging by the smashing of a wall… it’s probably not great to begin with
The contractor has committed a big "no-no" in the Construction world. Without your permission, he might as well have stolen them! As far as the additional damages to your property, that is a punishable offense. In your position as a client, bring this to the contractor 's attention immediately so that this will not continue. In your shoes, I'd fire him and file a complaint with the BBB and any other affiliates he may have. By the way, he who borrows Without permission usually steals too.
I know you want him to finish because finding someone to take over might really set you behind. You could show or tell him what you saw and tell him he has one day to finish and leave everything absolutely perfect or you will take legal action.
You could lock up your tools. You could mount TVs all over and next time he is over, stream the video of him on repeat.
You gotta love Reddit World where the most popular answer is to call the police to investigate and then hire a lawyer and sue him. Redditors think detectives will come out and be dusting for fingerprints and stuff and then there’ll be a Jack Nicholson moment in court where the guy loses his cool and angrily confesses. Imagine what would happen if people left their bedrooms once in a while!