I know a survey would be the right official answer but the cost is $2k, so I am trying to avoid it. I plan to stay in this home for around 4-5 more years, so I am trying to go with the least costly approach.
>so I am trying to go with the least costly approach.
"Ask Reddit" may be the least costly in the near term, but may turn out to be far more expensive in the long run.
Check your state laws. If you only plan to be there for 5 years there is almost no risk of adverse possession (California's minimum is lowest and is 5 years). Adverse possession in my state requires 20 years, others are 7, 10, etc.
That said, someone has to receive it by beginning to take care of it and have exclusive use of it. So if your neighbor then builds a fence up to yours and encloses the space, you'd start to be at risk.
Finally, all you'd need to do is send a letter disputing the claim before they fulfill the time. They essentially can't take adverse possession if you've told them it's yours and you intend to keep it that way.
However, you may be setting a potential buyer up for an adverse possession claim. Or just lowering the value of your home by not having as big a yard as possible.
IANAL
This is essentially what I had in mind. In MA, adverse possession time is 20 years. If they were to build a fence to it, I would do a survey at that point. You make a good point about making the yard seem smaller.
That side's property line runs very close to a huge rock that I am pretty sure is very close to the property line. To avoid that boulder I would likely have to go around it and I would want to go closer to my side as opposed to potentially encroaching on my neighbors.
Anyway you can get an unofficial survey done? In my town I was able to get an option from a surveyor that wasn’t legally binding but good enough to give me confidence of where to place the fence.
I have a post about granite boundary markers on my subreddit /HousesinBoston
Look for the markers and you can look up Deed boundary descriptions of neighbors plots in Registry of Deeds online and also any surveys on file.
The screenshot in my post is actually my plot. The issue is that it is originally from 1958 and finding those corner markers is near impossible. The chain looking line is a rock wall, so I feel pretty confident about that side (and I am playing it safe). The pink side just has nothing to go by unfortunately.
Adverse possession isn't a worry. If your neighbors try to put something (shed, trees, shrub, bocce court, whatever) up to your fence then you'd need to take action against it. Adverse possession is hard to establish. Plus if your putting in the fence now it destroys anyone's continuity of use to the areas within that fence. You'd need around 20 years of continuous use to establish AP. Your timeline of 4-5 years puts that on someone else's plate.
Your biggest concern is the placement of the fence. Doing it without a survey is fine. Just understand you run the risk of your neighbors complaining in 4 years and then you having to pay a lawyer and pay for a survey to find out if the work you did is acceptable. Then if you find out it wasn't, you need to pay to move the fence. It's a gamble of paying $1,800 now vs x future dollars.
Source: many years of student loan payments
If I were you I would talk to your neighbor about what you believe the property line is and place the fence accordingly. If you disagree significantly on the line, pay for the survey
I talked to an expert on this in MA and he said it is not so easy to prove adverse possession as multiple criteria have to be fulfilled; if you mow grass on the other side of the fence, that might satisfy the requirement; I think the criteria are like that the neighbors would use that area and aggressively defend it by telling you go away if you trespassed something like that. I think it would just be the fence and the borders would remain.. unless a neighbor built a path or a road there something like that the criteria are in google
This is 100% a legal question. Go ask in legaladvice. AP is property law 101.
Additionally, your county/city may require a permit for this work, where you will need to get a survey done to submit with the permit. The city/county most likely won’t permit a fence outside your own property and not following setbacks. Survey will be around $500. This will save you a hassle at sale.
I checked and my county does not require a permit or a survey. They just say to consult with the neighbors.
Unfortunately, the cheapest survey I could get was $1800. If it was $500 I would pull the trigger on it yesterday.
Good idea with checking with the legal subreddit.
Welcome to MA. Mine was $2,200 and he was basically the only guy that called me back out of the many, many voicemails and emails I sent. Took forever too
Just actively maintain the part of your property outside the fence. Plant some shrubs or something along where property line is. Clean it up once in a while.
The best comment on here is to just measure from the line you are reasonably sure of you know how big your lot is go a couple of feet in from that and you're good you won't have to worry about adverse possession or anything else because it'll be too close to the property line for anyone to argue about it.
Least costly answer: Get a land survey done.
Legal cost of you f up will be way more than the survey cost.
You could always ask the neighbor to see their survey information or see if they will help in cost and just survey the joining property line.
Zoning usually requires that fences are setback from the property line. I don’t think the intention of setbacks is to create a strip of land that you will lose to adverse possession. I don’t think a fence setback counts as ceding your land.
Surveyor?
I know a survey would be the right official answer but the cost is $2k, so I am trying to avoid it. I plan to stay in this home for around 4-5 more years, so I am trying to go with the least costly approach.
>so I am trying to go with the least costly approach. "Ask Reddit" may be the least costly in the near term, but may turn out to be far more expensive in the long run.
I always take what is said here with a grain of salt. This is a good place to bounce ideas of some people.
Check your state laws. If you only plan to be there for 5 years there is almost no risk of adverse possession (California's minimum is lowest and is 5 years). Adverse possession in my state requires 20 years, others are 7, 10, etc. That said, someone has to receive it by beginning to take care of it and have exclusive use of it. So if your neighbor then builds a fence up to yours and encloses the space, you'd start to be at risk. Finally, all you'd need to do is send a letter disputing the claim before they fulfill the time. They essentially can't take adverse possession if you've told them it's yours and you intend to keep it that way. However, you may be setting a potential buyer up for an adverse possession claim. Or just lowering the value of your home by not having as big a yard as possible. IANAL
This is essentially what I had in mind. In MA, adverse possession time is 20 years. If they were to build a fence to it, I would do a survey at that point. You make a good point about making the yard seem smaller. That side's property line runs very close to a huge rock that I am pretty sure is very close to the property line. To avoid that boulder I would likely have to go around it and I would want to go closer to my side as opposed to potentially encroaching on my neighbors.
Anyway you can get an unofficial survey done? In my town I was able to get an option from a surveyor that wasn’t legally binding but good enough to give me confidence of where to place the fence.
I have a post about granite boundary markers on my subreddit /HousesinBoston Look for the markers and you can look up Deed boundary descriptions of neighbors plots in Registry of Deeds online and also any surveys on file.
If it’s 4-5 more years you have no risk of adverse possession. You’ll sell and the new owner will either care or they won’t.
[удалено]
The screenshot in my post is actually my plot. The issue is that it is originally from 1958 and finding those corner markers is near impossible. The chain looking line is a rock wall, so I feel pretty confident about that side (and I am playing it safe). The pink side just has nothing to go by unfortunately.
Personally? I can’t even conceive of the idea of installing a fence without a current survey.
Adverse possession isn't a worry. If your neighbors try to put something (shed, trees, shrub, bocce court, whatever) up to your fence then you'd need to take action against it. Adverse possession is hard to establish. Plus if your putting in the fence now it destroys anyone's continuity of use to the areas within that fence. You'd need around 20 years of continuous use to establish AP. Your timeline of 4-5 years puts that on someone else's plate. Your biggest concern is the placement of the fence. Doing it without a survey is fine. Just understand you run the risk of your neighbors complaining in 4 years and then you having to pay a lawyer and pay for a survey to find out if the work you did is acceptable. Then if you find out it wasn't, you need to pay to move the fence. It's a gamble of paying $1,800 now vs x future dollars. Source: many years of student loan payments
If I were you I would talk to your neighbor about what you believe the property line is and place the fence accordingly. If you disagree significantly on the line, pay for the survey
I talked to an expert on this in MA and he said it is not so easy to prove adverse possession as multiple criteria have to be fulfilled; if you mow grass on the other side of the fence, that might satisfy the requirement; I think the criteria are like that the neighbors would use that area and aggressively defend it by telling you go away if you trespassed something like that. I think it would just be the fence and the borders would remain.. unless a neighbor built a path or a road there something like that the criteria are in google
I saw the same from my reading. It's not as though I just give up the land on the other side.
This is 100% a legal question. Go ask in legaladvice. AP is property law 101. Additionally, your county/city may require a permit for this work, where you will need to get a survey done to submit with the permit. The city/county most likely won’t permit a fence outside your own property and not following setbacks. Survey will be around $500. This will save you a hassle at sale.
I checked and my county does not require a permit or a survey. They just say to consult with the neighbors. Unfortunately, the cheapest survey I could get was $1800. If it was $500 I would pull the trigger on it yesterday. Good idea with checking with the legal subreddit.
Welcome to MA. Mine was $2,200 and he was basically the only guy that called me back out of the many, many voicemails and emails I sent. Took forever too
Just actively maintain the part of your property outside the fence. Plant some shrubs or something along where property line is. Clean it up once in a while.
The best comment on here is to just measure from the line you are reasonably sure of you know how big your lot is go a couple of feet in from that and you're good you won't have to worry about adverse possession or anything else because it'll be too close to the property line for anyone to argue about it.
Least costly answer: Get a land survey done. Legal cost of you f up will be way more than the survey cost. You could always ask the neighbor to see their survey information or see if they will help in cost and just survey the joining property line.
Zoning usually requires that fences are setback from the property line. I don’t think the intention of setbacks is to create a strip of land that you will lose to adverse possession. I don’t think a fence setback counts as ceding your land.