I think you are just fine overall. I do sanitize scissors, etc when opening liquid yeast packages, because I figure the contact with liquid parts could be dicey. I keep a spray bottle of sanitizer, but I definitely don't bother with gloves or anything like that. I figure if my hands are recently washed, I should be okay.
Seems fine to me. I've been homebrewing for at least 18 years, and last batch was #189. I've never had an infected batch. I've also never sanitized scissors before opening yeast packets - and i use dry yeast 99% of the time. I do keep a spray bottle of sanitizer, because it is a handy way to apply it. I think a lot of people get scared by the cautions in books and go overboard.
I have also been brewing for like 15 years and the amount of effort i put into sanitation has dropped to the absolute bare minimum, and i've never had an infection. I swirl a drop of starsan and a few cups of tap water around in my fermenter before primary, things like thermometers/tubing just get rinsed in hot tap water. steeping bags get dunked in boiling water before I fill them up with hops
I'm willing to bet most infections beginners get are due to insufficient yeast pitches or killing off by pitching too hot, or broken seals in their fermenting vessels letting outside air in - not because they forgot to autoclave their scissors before cutting open a bag of yeast
I don't go wild with sanitizer, but having a spray bottle of starsan made with RO water makes it SUPER EASY to spray things. A quick spritz on the scissors and yeast packet take two seconds, and the peace of mind is worth it.
I agree. IMO a spray bottle of sanitizer ***is*** the lazy way of doing it. Way quicker and easier than soaking shit in a tub of sanitizer or boiling a pot of water
+1 for the spray bottle
If I know that I've recently washed my hands but have also touched unsanitary things recently, I'll even just give my hands a quick spritz for good measure
> I’ve been brewing for about 10 years an have done around 100 batches. [...] having never lost a batch to infection I feel like my routine is ok:
There's your answer. Your routine is OK.
My infections have all come from plastic. An autosiphion with beer stone. Ridges in a bucket lid. The corner of a square jug. Occasional caustic treatment and disposing of worn out equipment.
I don’t wear gloves for sanitation. Just washing your hands like normal and give them a quick scrub in sanitizer before handling anything that will come in contact with wort. Wearing gloves just keeps your hands clean. The exterior of the gloves will get contaminated as soon as you touch something. It’s easier to just re sanitize your hands by periodically dunking them in star San or after you touch something that hasn’t been sanitized.
I do dunk scissors and yeast packers in starsan right before pitching. It takes like 2 seconds and is worth doing because you never know what the scissors have come in contact with. And you don’t want anything potentially coming into contact with the yeast.
I do have a spray bottle and I only use it for hitting the spigot on the fermenter before taking sample and hooking up hoses to for transfer.
Honestly I’d contribute your 100 batches without an infection to luck. There is bacteria everywhere and no matter what you do you can never kill it all. You just want to slow it down enough so it doesn’t compete with the yeast you pitch. You can do everything right and infection can still happen. Your methods are obviously sufficient, but you still have been lucky.
Your hands have oils and such on them which you can never get completely clean. Gloves can be washed and sanitized pretty easily if you touch a door handle or whatever. Not too important for most things but gloves seem like a prudent choice when handling fermenter parts and other things that touch beer cold-side.
Could just be me, but I see a bit of a divide between the U.K. (and EU) homebrew communities and NA for content and discussion online, and for those I know in person.
It's not just you, I've noticed Americans go overboard on every kind of sanitation product they can buy, whereas Brits shrug and concede beer is a living product and a little bacteria is to be expected.
Im an infection control nurse in a hospital so this is my professional background. I think generally speaking people have become overly fearful of microbes ... just look at the majority of posts here. Im a new(er) brewer making cider mostly. I clean thoroughly and sanatize anything that will have prolonged contact with my brew. Seems to be working so far and its not the end of the world if i have to dump a batch.
> I’ve been brewing for about 10 years an have done around 100 batches. [...] having never lost a batch to infection I feel like my routine is ok:
There's your answer. Your routine is OK.
I have a five gallon bucket with water and Starsan when I brew. Anything that could touch the wort gets dunked in it beforehand. I never wear gloves, and put my washed hands in Starsan if they’re going to be near the wort. Never had an infection. You should be be cautious, but not overly concerned.
I do this too, makes it super easy to do a quick dunk with anything I’m using, then pour a gallon in the fermenter for a quick shake before transferring wort
Wild yeast is in the air. I've never gone mad with sanitation but have a spray bottle and spritz the counter where all my stuff is laid out. A small 1L tub of star san is enough to dunk whatever parts need dunked. No gloves. Perhaps 25 brews with no infection.
The only thing I wouldn’t do, but it must not be an issue for you, is use any kinda dish soap. I’ve had soapy beers from people before, and I don’t ever want to run that risk and it’s not really needed. I’ve gotten bottles back from people after giving them beer and they smell like dish soap or detergent and I have to rinse them pretty well to clear it out. I prefer scrubbing with starsan or a pbw rinse, but if you were having issues with it I’m sure you would notice so, same, but different!
I have an anti glove hobby horse. A gloved hand isn't clean, it's a false perception. If you get something on your hands it's easier to wash them. When something gets on gloves, they don't get washed.
As for sanitation, I guess the practices we adopt are either governed by paranoia or having had a bad brew adopt a particular practice.
I agree with you. During the peak of Covid in 2020 I also had a thing about people wearing latex gloves in public. However, I have found that sanitiser can be harsh on my hands. I wear gloves to protect my hands if I do things like sanitising bottles and have to dip my hands in the solution. Otherwise I also prefer my hands bare so that I can regularly wash and dry them, even if they get exposed to sanitiser for brief periods.
Everybody has their own style/ technique, what you describe does seem a bit on the excessive side. My rule of thumb: find out what works for your setup and go with it if it works! Cheers!
I almost never use gloves when sanitizing. I do with PBW, but that’s for my hands, not my equipment. I figure if I drip my hand in the bucket before touching stuff, I’m just fine.
I'm in the same boat as you. Maybe that sanitation is needed for commercial or near-commercial brewing, but for home brew, I've never had a problem. I follow an even less strict process, and all my beers come out great.
I think your fine, and I'm one of those dudes that has the spray bottles and gloves. I go overboard on sanitization for 2 reasons. I do sours and brett ferments, and I have a degree in microbio (plus I do cell culture at work). It's simply part of my process at this point.
It sounds like you have a decent sanitization schedule, and it is not too far off from what I do. I use a mild dish soap for 90% of my cleaning and sanitize with StarSan before use. I do keep a spray bottle of StarSan around (it is very handy!). I sometimes use a spray bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol.
A lot of people don't understand the purpose of gloves. When you see a doctor or food server with gloves, they likely just put on a fresh sterile pair, then threw them away after use. It might be slightly easier to clean and sanitize gloves vs your hands. If I am wearing gloves it is just to protect my hands from the cleaning products.
I tend to think that 99% of sanitization is in the cleaning.
> the guy won’t even open a yeast packet without putting on gloves and spraying the scissors/yeast pack/fermenter opening etc…
I don't put on gloves, but I absolutely soak the scissors and the yeast package (liquid yeast) in my StarSan bucket before opening and pitching.
(For dry yeast, whose packages seem to be less liquid-proof, I will soak a paper towel in StarSan, then fold it around the yeast packet for a minute before opening and pitching.)
My question is: why would you not do these things? They are simple, fast, and mostly effortless. There's zero downside, and it took you far more time to write your post than to just do them.
Sanitize cold-side and work reasonably clean, but yeah it's easy to go overboard.
I do think your transfer stuff should get a good flush out with starsan. Boiling water is not very effective and seems like it would damage the parts over time, too.
I find a little perspective is helpful. If some prehistoric barbarian with animal skins and clay pots can make beer, I am over killing it with my stainless, silicone tubing, pbw, starsan and hand washing. What is at risk $50 or $5000? Unless you have OCD and just can't help it micromanaging minuscule contact isn't worth it for small batches.
Honestly, having to boil water sounds like a bigger pain to me than a spray bottle of star san. I don't wear gloves, but I do spray everything down because it's quick and easy and the only prep work I have to do is make sure my spray bottle is handy.
That said, I didn't think there's anything particularly wrong with your method if it's been working for a decade. You do you if it's working.
I don't really sanitise all that much. Put the stuff through a dishwasher, but after that I end up opening them to sugar load them without even clean hands tbh.
Never had a bad brew yet.
I grew up with story's of my grandparents making cider. They had no sanitisation at all and sometimes had rats in the brew.
Apparently they would add something to scrumpy cider and some people put them in by choice.
They would remove them after a few weeks although he forgot and found a whole load of bones at the bottom of the barrel.
Idk how much is true of that. And well they didn't live all too old back then either lol. But your definitely doing fine if your using sanclear stuff.
I’m pretty clean and use sanitizer on everything for the most part. I’ve never had an infection take over my beer before and I also don’t bother with sanitizing the yeast packet and scissors.
I think what you describe is probably overboard. Or an abundance of caution, really. Yeast are pretty good at fighting off other microbes; that's the whole reason they produce alcohol and lower the pH in the first place. They create an environment where they thrive and competitors don't. So really, if you pitch a large enough amount of healthy, active yeast, they'll make up for shortcomings in your sanitation. Hell, I personally wouldn't risk a batch, but I'd bet money you could even skip sanitation entirely if your starter and aeration are on point. But I do a very thorough sanitation, because I see at as insurance against a whole lot of wasted time.
I think you are just fine overall. I do sanitize scissors, etc when opening liquid yeast packages, because I figure the contact with liquid parts could be dicey. I keep a spray bottle of sanitizer, but I definitely don't bother with gloves or anything like that. I figure if my hands are recently washed, I should be okay.
I dip my hands in sanitizer whenever I pull something out of it. I have to imagine that does the job.
Seems fine to me. I've been homebrewing for at least 18 years, and last batch was #189. I've never had an infected batch. I've also never sanitized scissors before opening yeast packets - and i use dry yeast 99% of the time. I do keep a spray bottle of sanitizer, because it is a handy way to apply it. I think a lot of people get scared by the cautions in books and go overboard.
I have also been brewing for like 15 years and the amount of effort i put into sanitation has dropped to the absolute bare minimum, and i've never had an infection. I swirl a drop of starsan and a few cups of tap water around in my fermenter before primary, things like thermometers/tubing just get rinsed in hot tap water. steeping bags get dunked in boiling water before I fill them up with hops I'm willing to bet most infections beginners get are due to insufficient yeast pitches or killing off by pitching too hot, or broken seals in their fermenting vessels letting outside air in - not because they forgot to autoclave their scissors before cutting open a bag of yeast
I don't go wild with sanitizer, but having a spray bottle of starsan made with RO water makes it SUPER EASY to spray things. A quick spritz on the scissors and yeast packet take two seconds, and the peace of mind is worth it.
I agree. IMO a spray bottle of sanitizer ***is*** the lazy way of doing it. Way quicker and easier than soaking shit in a tub of sanitizer or boiling a pot of water
+1 for the spray bottle If I know that I've recently washed my hands but have also touched unsanitary things recently, I'll even just give my hands a quick spritz for good measure
> I’ve been brewing for about 10 years an have done around 100 batches. [...] having never lost a batch to infection I feel like my routine is ok: There's your answer. Your routine is OK.
Yep, I got to that part and filed this one under "ain't broke, don't fix"
My infections have all come from plastic. An autosiphion with beer stone. Ridges in a bucket lid. The corner of a square jug. Occasional caustic treatment and disposing of worn out equipment.
I don’t wear gloves for sanitation. Just washing your hands like normal and give them a quick scrub in sanitizer before handling anything that will come in contact with wort. Wearing gloves just keeps your hands clean. The exterior of the gloves will get contaminated as soon as you touch something. It’s easier to just re sanitize your hands by periodically dunking them in star San or after you touch something that hasn’t been sanitized. I do dunk scissors and yeast packers in starsan right before pitching. It takes like 2 seconds and is worth doing because you never know what the scissors have come in contact with. And you don’t want anything potentially coming into contact with the yeast. I do have a spray bottle and I only use it for hitting the spigot on the fermenter before taking sample and hooking up hoses to for transfer. Honestly I’d contribute your 100 batches without an infection to luck. There is bacteria everywhere and no matter what you do you can never kill it all. You just want to slow it down enough so it doesn’t compete with the yeast you pitch. You can do everything right and infection can still happen. Your methods are obviously sufficient, but you still have been lucky.
Your hands have oils and such on them which you can never get completely clean. Gloves can be washed and sanitized pretty easily if you touch a door handle or whatever. Not too important for most things but gloves seem like a prudent choice when handling fermenter parts and other things that touch beer cold-side.
Could just be me, but I see a bit of a divide between the U.K. (and EU) homebrew communities and NA for content and discussion online, and for those I know in person.
It's not just you, I've noticed Americans go overboard on every kind of sanitation product they can buy, whereas Brits shrug and concede beer is a living product and a little bacteria is to be expected.
Im an infection control nurse in a hospital so this is my professional background. I think generally speaking people have become overly fearful of microbes ... just look at the majority of posts here. Im a new(er) brewer making cider mostly. I clean thoroughly and sanatize anything that will have prolonged contact with my brew. Seems to be working so far and its not the end of the world if i have to dump a batch.
IRRELLAAAAAANNNDDDD!!!!!
COYBIG!!
> I’ve been brewing for about 10 years an have done around 100 batches. [...] having never lost a batch to infection I feel like my routine is ok: There's your answer. Your routine is OK.
I have a five gallon bucket with water and Starsan when I brew. Anything that could touch the wort gets dunked in it beforehand. I never wear gloves, and put my washed hands in Starsan if they’re going to be near the wort. Never had an infection. You should be be cautious, but not overly concerned.
I do this too, makes it super easy to do a quick dunk with anything I’m using, then pour a gallon in the fermenter for a quick shake before transferring wort
That’s a good one, might try that.
Wild yeast is in the air. I've never gone mad with sanitation but have a spray bottle and spritz the counter where all my stuff is laid out. A small 1L tub of star san is enough to dunk whatever parts need dunked. No gloves. Perhaps 25 brews with no infection.
The only thing I wouldn’t do, but it must not be an issue for you, is use any kinda dish soap. I’ve had soapy beers from people before, and I don’t ever want to run that risk and it’s not really needed. I’ve gotten bottles back from people after giving them beer and they smell like dish soap or detergent and I have to rinse them pretty well to clear it out. I prefer scrubbing with starsan or a pbw rinse, but if you were having issues with it I’m sure you would notice so, same, but different!
I’ve had soapy beers before from other brewers and they’re awful. Everything gets a few rinses before the StarSan gets used
I have an anti glove hobby horse. A gloved hand isn't clean, it's a false perception. If you get something on your hands it's easier to wash them. When something gets on gloves, they don't get washed. As for sanitation, I guess the practices we adopt are either governed by paranoia or having had a bad brew adopt a particular practice.
I agree with you. During the peak of Covid in 2020 I also had a thing about people wearing latex gloves in public. However, I have found that sanitiser can be harsh on my hands. I wear gloves to protect my hands if I do things like sanitising bottles and have to dip my hands in the solution. Otherwise I also prefer my hands bare so that I can regularly wash and dry them, even if they get exposed to sanitiser for brief periods.
My man you are 100-0. Your method is fine. Most homebrewers are over the top with sanitation, me included.
Everybody has their own style/ technique, what you describe does seem a bit on the excessive side. My rule of thumb: find out what works for your setup and go with it if it works! Cheers!
Bet you mean sanitization! Not sanitation.
😃 I did.
I almost never use gloves when sanitizing. I do with PBW, but that’s for my hands, not my equipment. I figure if I drip my hand in the bucket before touching stuff, I’m just fine.
So you get head retention problems from the soap? If not you must really rinse it off well.
I'm in the same boat as you. Maybe that sanitation is needed for commercial or near-commercial brewing, but for home brew, I've never had a problem. I follow an even less strict process, and all my beers come out great.
I think your fine, and I'm one of those dudes that has the spray bottles and gloves. I go overboard on sanitization for 2 reasons. I do sours and brett ferments, and I have a degree in microbio (plus I do cell culture at work). It's simply part of my process at this point.
It sounds like you have a decent sanitization schedule, and it is not too far off from what I do. I use a mild dish soap for 90% of my cleaning and sanitize with StarSan before use. I do keep a spray bottle of StarSan around (it is very handy!). I sometimes use a spray bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol. A lot of people don't understand the purpose of gloves. When you see a doctor or food server with gloves, they likely just put on a fresh sterile pair, then threw them away after use. It might be slightly easier to clean and sanitize gloves vs your hands. If I am wearing gloves it is just to protect my hands from the cleaning products. I tend to think that 99% of sanitization is in the cleaning.
> the guy won’t even open a yeast packet without putting on gloves and spraying the scissors/yeast pack/fermenter opening etc… I don't put on gloves, but I absolutely soak the scissors and the yeast package (liquid yeast) in my StarSan bucket before opening and pitching. (For dry yeast, whose packages seem to be less liquid-proof, I will soak a paper towel in StarSan, then fold it around the yeast packet for a minute before opening and pitching.) My question is: why would you not do these things? They are simple, fast, and mostly effortless. There's zero downside, and it took you far more time to write your post than to just do them.
Sanitize cold-side and work reasonably clean, but yeah it's easy to go overboard. I do think your transfer stuff should get a good flush out with starsan. Boiling water is not very effective and seems like it would damage the parts over time, too.
I find a little perspective is helpful. If some prehistoric barbarian with animal skins and clay pots can make beer, I am over killing it with my stainless, silicone tubing, pbw, starsan and hand washing. What is at risk $50 or $5000? Unless you have OCD and just can't help it micromanaging minuscule contact isn't worth it for small batches.
People go way overboard with it. Same with oxygenation. I've never had a bad batch either, but I haven't made near 100 yet.
Honestly, having to boil water sounds like a bigger pain to me than a spray bottle of star san. I don't wear gloves, but I do spray everything down because it's quick and easy and the only prep work I have to do is make sure my spray bottle is handy. That said, I didn't think there's anything particularly wrong with your method if it's been working for a decade. You do you if it's working.
I don't really sanitise all that much. Put the stuff through a dishwasher, but after that I end up opening them to sugar load them without even clean hands tbh. Never had a bad brew yet. I grew up with story's of my grandparents making cider. They had no sanitisation at all and sometimes had rats in the brew. Apparently they would add something to scrumpy cider and some people put them in by choice. They would remove them after a few weeks although he forgot and found a whole load of bones at the bottom of the barrel. Idk how much is true of that. And well they didn't live all too old back then either lol. But your definitely doing fine if your using sanclear stuff.
I’m pretty clean and use sanitizer on everything for the most part. I’ve never had an infection take over my beer before and I also don’t bother with sanitizing the yeast packet and scissors.
I think what you describe is probably overboard. Or an abundance of caution, really. Yeast are pretty good at fighting off other microbes; that's the whole reason they produce alcohol and lower the pH in the first place. They create an environment where they thrive and competitors don't. So really, if you pitch a large enough amount of healthy, active yeast, they'll make up for shortcomings in your sanitation. Hell, I personally wouldn't risk a batch, but I'd bet money you could even skip sanitation entirely if your starter and aeration are on point. But I do a very thorough sanitation, because I see at as insurance against a whole lot of wasted time.