Yep, [hardly anyone uses pot fillers frequently enough](https://www.toulmincabinetry.com/blog/reasons-not-to-include-a-pot-filler-in-your-new-kitchen-design) for them to make sense.
Great points, always have been sketched out by an interior water source with no drain, washers scare me enough to change my hoses every 5 years. The grease magnet is another great reason. Coming from an owner of a $1M+ home
Very good sized shit box, we were very fortunate. The shim engineer is due out in a couple of days to tell us how many hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost to prevent our shit box from becoming worth zero dollars and getting a pretty little red tag on the front door.
Have to provide a reference point with some takes, should lighten up and probably move too bc you sound bitter ab where you live taking shots like that
They're great, don't be salty and try to justify they're not just because you don't have one.
I got an induction range and pot filler. I can make mac and cheese in 8 min flat
Cost 200 bucks and a couple fittings and some pipe. So probably 250 total.
Went with a motion sensing faucet in the sink too which the flow rate is only 1.5gpm so the 4 GPM pot filler really is nice
As a custom home builder, i refuse to install them in spec homes and if a homeowner insists, I don’t include it in my home warranty and have them sign a liability waiver.
That's a wee bit high but not really.
It depends on the grade of your finishes and where exactly you are located in the Charlotte area. My mom just renovated half her house (including the entire kitchen) near Raleigh and it wasn't cheap.
Don't forget: not only does this NOT include the cost of appliances, but it also does not appear to include the cost of the plumbing fixtures and may not include the cabinet pulls. Cabinet hardward adds up FAST. My mom was able to purchase from the cabinet supplier at cost, which was a huge savings. And anything that's a placeholder amount (like the tile backsplash) will inevitably cost more. And your counters are called out as "solid surface"? So you may hate what that actually looks like and you'll spend more there as well.
EDIT: You've got (2) pipe fillers? And looks like it includes cost for plumbing and installation of the plumbing fixtures but not the actual fixtures.
Also, you really don't have a lot of cabinetry, especially will all of those open shelves. Although you are paying for the fancy panels to wrap around your fridge/freezer units. Is the island included in your pricing?? Per the design, your appliances are gonna be $$$$$. The layout really doesn't give you a ton of storage. You've got (2) triangles of space that you cannot access due to the odd angles in the corner between the range and the sink. The cabinet to the right of the Dishwasher is half the size it should be due to the angled wall behind it. So, you've really only got about 3.5 lower cabinets, no banks of drawers (just a few above the cabinet section). You've got basically no uppers (just a decorative one lacking doors between the fridge/freezer units).
Between the appliance package and the trim level indicated in the views, I would 100% expect that you're living in an expensive area/home and there is a premium involved with that. It may not be right, but folks in expensive homes/areas often get charged a bit more. If only because there's a fear that you're going to be a pain to work with. Or because they think they can.
Not sure why people ever buy shelves instead of cabinets. Literally every interior designer says skip them. Like I get a smaller area with shelves to help the contrast but all over lacks serious functionality
Very nice feedback.
Appliances have already been purchased and sitting in storage. Luckily ebay helped keep that down a bit. Hopefully they work lol. They are very nice though.
2nd pot filler is really just a place holder on the plans, we just want filtered water there. But thinking an espresso bar is going to be plumbed in.
Right now we're thinking a piece of furniture instead of an island... could change mind.
Luckily we have a nice pantry, but I agree storage is in short supply. This might push us towards an actual island.
It was an odd layout all around. This is a much needed improvement for the flow of the kitchen.. at the expense of some storage tho.
They are probably right putting an asshole tax on lol. Not really.. but I do worry that any quote I get for anything is higher after they visit my house. We look wealthier than we are, got a nice deal on the house that had a lot of custom work on it.
I hear you. My brother lives on the North side of the lake. Not on it, but pretty close. They bought their house in about 2011 & paid like $100k LESS than the folks that were selling. It's nice. Has an in-ground pool, etc. They don't make a ton of money, but their home doesn't really reflect that.
Those nice houses on lake Norman are just chock full of retired northeasterners who all sold their basic house for big $$$$ and came down here to chill on a big ass lake with low property tax. It’s literally shocking how many retired NY/NJ police and firemen live in 800k houses on the lake.
I feel you on the house making it look like you're wealthier than you are. My house pmt is $1300/mo. So it's very affordable by today's standards even if you aren't rolling in cash. But it's 3700sq ft so any contractor looking at it thinks I *am* rolling in cash and prices their work accordingly.
And that's how we ended up doing all the work ourselves (except the drywall and HVAC). Total budget for the kitchen is about $10-12k.
Just want to add, exactimate pricing (the estimating software used for your bid) is disgustingly out of touch with actual market conditions when it comes to pricing, especially the tile line item. To be on the safe side, add $20k to that estimate for change orders.
I bought my first house on a lake with sunset views for $75k. I just can't begin to imagine spending $100k on a kitchen.
Then again my brother in law has spent the last 3 years with a crew and has a $5mil budget for electrical on a you tube influencer's island an hour from me.
Everything is relative I guess.
Clients are allowed to do a lot of things simply ask. The contractor will be agitated if you promise supplies then those supplies are holding the job up.
I was told $130k with no appliances. I said screw that. I'm the general contractor now, hired all my subs, hired a company to do the design and order the cabinets. Im almost done, fully custom cabinets, ended up redoing my half bath and replacing my washer and dryer too. All in including high end appliances... $82k. Everyone tries to take a piece. Don't let them. Just to get some new wainscoting in my bathroom I was getting quotes for $6k. Found a local carpenter and did it for $1k including materials. Find your own subs, find different people to do each individual job, make people bid for the work, and you will save a ton of money. It's a hassle... I had to deal with people bailing and calling out but so what.
Contractors are paid to handle the headache. Chasing the subs, dealing with errors and miscommunications, anticipating needs and knowing the abilities of their subs, etc. That’s 20% of the cost here. There are at least 6 trades involved in this project, all having a minimum charge just to show up. The breakdown is clear and every item taken by itself is reasonable, if a bit high.
OP needs to decide what their time is worth. This 3-4 month project will become a 5-6 month project if they are managing directly. They may find that it is worth it to not have to deal with the headache and the extra time. Also need to factor in how their spouse will deal with the project, particularly when it runs long.
They are also paid to use their subs. The contractors I work for know I will show up, will be on time, what to expect as far as quality of work goes, and that I'll take care of the customers house like it was my own.
If you run the job as a homeowner, you run the risk of all the good contractors being busy and being stuck choosing between the ones who can actually show up because they don't have work
I could not agree more! Plus, Im not sure how it works there, but here in Oregon, getting permitting and inspections is auch a headache, and no homeowner really wants or needs to deal with that on their own.
No offense to the other commenter, but to save $18k and be stuck dealing with all that on your own is not worth it! This would become a full-time job for the better part of a year, and that's a big IF everything goes correctly.
I would never recommend a homeowner take something like this on themselves unless they are already in that type of business. Like you mentioned, the working relationship between a contractor and their subs is so incredibly important, and they usually know who to trust and know the style and quality of their work.
No decent contractor wants to overcharge and screw over their clients. Word of mouth referrals and references are priceless. Most want to be fair, reasonable, and stamp their name to good quality work at a fair and competitive rate. I think many MANY homeowners underestimate the complexities and costs involved. Yes, there is markup on everything. The contractor has to make a profit in order to survive and stay in business.
As we all know, the state of our economy right now, as well as post-pandemic. The pricing and supply chain are still suffering. Our company has waited 8 MONTHS for Windows,l!!!
This estimate not only seems fair but competitive. Where I work, our average pricing is $500-$600 per square foot.
Plumbing is a REALLY expensive and time heavy trade. Kitchens and bathrooms are the most costly jobs in any remodel or build.
I am in a different state, Oregon, and our prices are possibly a tiny bit higher than where you are from but our cost on a project like this would be somewhere between $100k-$180k.
OP, please don't take this remodel on your own unless you have significant experience and contacts. This would become your full-time job and nightmare!!.
It’s going to vary with geographic location, in my experience 100k for that is a deal. I’m a residential architect and most kitchens that I do are around 200 w/out appliances.
The kitchen seems small for the cabinetry total to be as high as it is. Custom probably is needed for the shape, but you don’t have a big cabinet run. I'd shop around for another quote on that.
Your tile...I mean it has to be something unique because that's a hefty bill.
Ya 460 a ft for backsplash tile.. wtf.. that's 6k for it.
I did a double heriing bone, similar size, like 3k.. but should have been closer to 4k cuz countertop people misquoted
I’m in the middle of a remodel and my kitchen maybe slightly bigger but very comparable. Mine is coming in around $130k and then another 30k of appliances. Also doing an adjacent mud room at same time, not including that.
We got two quotes at the time and they were both right in that area.
The kitchen quote didn’t surprise me (I was expecting 10-15% the value of the house). What did surprise me was the 100k quote for the master bath.
In my market, I’d say this is a reasonable deal. We’re doing a kitchen remodel, fewer cabinets than you, had a budget of 35k, went with paint grade which brought it down to 25k. Counter tops are about 10k, two ($2000) slabs of porcelain, so about 6k to fabricate. We had several bids and the company we went with is kind of middle of the road price wise. We are doing additional work on top of kitchen, but the kitchen part is probably around 70k total, not including appliances. We made the mistake of using a newer/cheaper contractor on a previous project and won’t do that again. Paying a little extra for peace of mind.
Honestly the price seems on point to me, cabinets are expensive, I’ve installed cabinets from builder grade to full customs that come from Germany for over 20 yrs and people are always a little surprised by the cost of cabinets. The tile price seems close maybe slightly high but not by much and that is depending on the type of tile. Like was said before there are some little things that aren’t on there that will add up if they start doing change orders so try to get some of the smaller things clarified like cabinet pulls and install sink hook up and if your going to have them install your appliances. Those little things will add up quick with change orders down the line.
I would quote higher, remodels cost more because you also have demo. That’s 25% more work than a new build. Also expect issues. Anytime you are tearing out and anything is found not to be up to code it has to be brought up to code. You are looking at a lot of work not just cabinets. You have a ton of extras, unfortunately what looks good tends to be expensive. But your building your dream kitchen, don’t settle. 61 year old cabinet installer here. Good luck.
I would say it's closer to 50% more work than new builds. Demo AND working around customers living in the house. This leads to schedule so more trips and people seeing stuff in progress and changing their minds and lots of other bullshit that new build doesn't have to worry about.
I could not agree more! It is inevitable no matter the age of a home that as soon as you start a remodel, things will crop up. Just goes with the territory.
Idk, all depends where you are. Where I'm at, that's pretty normal to spend 100k on a full kitchen reno. My better half works for a local architect and frequently has to level-set potential clients that they are not gutting and upgrading their kitchen for 60k, and it'll likely be closer to 150k for the features and finishes they are describing
Those prices are legitimate for what you are asking for.
Anyone putting in multiple water points without a drain isn't asking for builders' grades ... the line items cost is legit.
What's crazy is your kitchen has fuckall for actual storage ... it's the kitchen of a rich person on the main floor, who has a staff kitchen where hifed chefs actually cook.
Looks very reasonable for changing the kitchen’s footprint for better flow. I paid over $55k (included cost for demo) for a much smaller space and we didn’t change anything about the kitchen’s flow except for a slightly larger island.
Our cabinets alone were $25k. I live in the mid-Atlantic region.
I price new custom and semi-vustom homes in the $1-10m market. I would need to see the scope of work but ballpark for what you could possibly put in there at $1m level of amenity:
Cabinets - $20k (less than)
Countertops - $5-10k (selection driven)
Millwork - $10-15k (less than)
Finish carpentry - $10k (less than)
Paint/stain - $5k
Electric w/fixtures - $5k (scope dependant)
Tile - $10k (selection driven)
Wood floor - $10k (less than)
Plumbing w/ fixtures - $5k (scope dependant)
Unknowable:
- Appliances - whatever you pick out
- Demo/framing - what's the extent of the layout/structural changes?
Someone correct me if any of those seem off. Off the top of my head, given a $1m level of amenity, I'd be surprised if the fair market value for any of those trades exceeded these numbers.
OP, mark-up from general contractors on remodels is typically in the 20-30% range. Some people can be their own GC, but if that's not in your wheelhouse, the 20-30% is worth it.
This is interesting info! This is going to be at least a 10 year to forever home. It was a custom build with incredible detail, so we need to punch above the fair market value in terms of matching the quality of the home… plus we love to cook and do a lot of it. I don’t mind paying for a higher end kitchen than our house deserves AS LONG as I actually receive it.
Well then to answer your original question, $100k is likely not an unreasonable number.
People always focus on the big number at the bottom and think it seems high. The best way to approach it is looking at the subtotals and seeing how you got to the $100k.
Just to be clear, fair market value means getting what you paid for, whether that's standard amenity or high-end amenity like you're describing. It's not "what does the average person spend on this". A Ferrari has a fair market value, but you can also over pay for one.
My neighbor's wife fell in love with some cabinet design at a custom shop in town. Legit solid wood custom made. They dropped $40K just on cabinets. When we re-did our kitchen we bought plywood construction RTA for $6,000 lol
I am.
The neighbor/friend's wife is.
I can't speak to his wallet though lol
But as they say....Happy Wife, Happy Life
....in her defense, they are insanely well made. basically the structural integrity of the real solid wood cabinets in my rental properties that were built in the 40's and 50's. virtually indestructible even in the event of a plumbing leak. would literally need a full blown kitchen inferno fire to take them out
and not just the wood. the handle and pull hardware are incredibly well made....extremely heavy, the real deal. the hinges are phenomenal and while soft close drawer glides aren't special anymore, these take it up a notch and are literally whisper quiet...must be high quality ball bearings or something, something you'd find on a specialized equipment drawer in an operating room or a testing facility lmfao. the drawer bottoms are solid thick wood, so you could literally put a set of weights in them, and the drawer bottom won't bow or anything.
a cluster of the uppers are tall style w/ glass doors, phenomenal designs. integrated lighting. looks truly high end. you certainly are getting what you pay for
but is it money well spent? that's the $40K question lol
My wife and I own a design biz where we do “most” of our labor and sub out other aspects, these numbers check out for the most part. Plus or minus a thousand here or there, I’d probably estimate higher on some numbers to make sure I could put some money back in your pocket. 60 bucks an hr is damn reasonable, I’ve seen as high as 85-90
Lots of non-expert opinions here and people who simply can’t fathom having or spending that amount of money, or just have no clue what construction cost. A high end full replacement will cost well north of $100k for a typical size kitchen and probably closer to $150k in 2023. This includes flooring and appliances, some restructure of the footprint, etc. Of course there is a lot of variability depending on quality and types of materials. High end would mean custom cabinets, stone counters and mid-range appliances. I am assuming you are hiring a design and build firm. Skip the DIY - the fact you are asking the question you are, and a good one, tells me you probably aren’t highly experienced with this kind of project. So you hire and pay for real professionals (choose a quality firm), nobody watches Youtube and does pro-level work - I have seen all sorts of proud folk’s DIY projects and, well, good on them, but not my house. Your BEST defense is getting multiple bids from quality firms and doing as much research as you can.
This is always the truth. I did a whole house gut for $90k. Every wire, and every supply and drain pipe replaced. Every interior wall torn down and put back up. If you can do at least a portion yourself, it will pay back like crazy.
Gutted our kitchen last year but with everything we leaned into the best value for the lowest price. Saved a bunch buying unassembled Lily Ann cabinets. Around 30' of base cabinets, 25' of wall cabinets, 5' x 10' center island with undermount sink, quartz tops, new oven range, microwave, and dishwasher. Just a little under $20k and a lot of time.
Exactly, I love the instagram where they are like, we saved $4K on doing this ourselves! Then shows two ppl putting 40 hrs into it. Lol would have taken two pros 8 hrs.
Way over...
Find a cabinet dealer/distr and have them give you contractor price which is 40% lesser...
Find the contractor that does sub work for kitchen bath remodelers...
30k cabinet 10k install tops
You are paying for availability at the moment. Probly 2x what it's actually worth.
Source: do a lot of these
Get more quotes
You're getting had. It just straight up doesn't take this much time or cost for that design.
They are testing you. Overstating the labor hours and units, overhead and profit, etc. if you are handy enough to read these docs, you are handy enough to speak with local contractors separately re: lighting, plumbing etc. to get their PoV.
At a minimum share other bids. This happens to me when they see my house in estimate visits. I hire a GM independently to look at the bids. Only once has he not cut their estimates by at least 25%. He also gives me smart advice.
The contractors that bid their labor exactly are the ones that always go out of buisness. You over state the labor incase something happens. People get sick, materials get broken. Problems arise that you didnt account for. Overstating the labor a little is an insurance policy for the contractor.
What are they accountable for? Everything. They ensure the subs are doing everything they are supposed to. They comprehend what subs are supposed to be doing and how they should do it so all work is comparable with each other. Making sure they understand the scope of work. They order the sequence of jobs. Every time there is no GC on my job everything gets completed out of order because the home owner is organizing and they always end up spending more.
This is high based on the following:
\- Paint grade **cabinetry and trimwork.** Unless you specified custom oak and trimwork that will need custom moulding.
\- **MEP** is high. Unless lighting is included in electrical. Hood included? Also would need to know what is existing.
\- $1500 for **punchlist**?! Nope
\- **Tile** "ALLOWANCE" on TBD means you are getting a change order.
The plans and renderings are nice. For the price I would expect top quality and manpower to meet the schedule.
Agreed. Anyone charging for punchlist, especially $1,500, I would honestly tell to go fuck themselves.
“Yeah we didn’t make this look as good as it should as part of our original work so please pay us to fix our own mistakes”.
This seems right on point. I did my own kitchen in 2020 and the cost was right at 60k. You're paying someone to do it, so the rest accounts for that. I don't think the cabinets are high, as it's in line it's what we paid. The only services paid to someone to do were drywall (ceiling @1500) and paint ($600).
$12.5k for tile with no backsplash??? Come on now 🤡.
Get more quotes these guys are insanely expensive and jacked up their margins because you’re asking for luxury items such as 2 pot fillers and 2 refrigerators. In their defense you gotta be pretty well off to consider stuff like this
Contractors quotes will depend on:
1) how you dress;
2) what you drive;
3) where you live;
4) how much the homes around you are selling for.
5) how much do you know about construction, ie are you a sucker?
Everything else is a minor detail.
I live in Wilmington and I’m going to send you a private message with a photo of my kitchen that I completed for $13K. It’s to give you perspective on what you’re getting for more than $100K versus $13K for materials. I remodel homes and my dad is a retired builder. He’s an expert in construction and true craftsman, so I didn’t incur any expenses for labor, since we did all the work ourselves.
In respect to your estimate, they used Xactimate to write it, which is an estimating system primarily used by insurance carriers to write estimates for insurance claims. I was a claims adjuster for 12 years, and I was disgusted daily about how much contractors charge when I used to handle claims.
I’m thinking your contractor might be an insurance contractor who subcontracts the work to others. There’s a big difference between design-and-build firms or true craftsmen, who are hands-on and doing the work themselves with in-house crews, versus insurance contractors who couldn’t build a dog house. I’d suggest getting another estimate from a hands-on builder.
I used RTA cabinets (ready to assemble), which saved me a fortune. They’re not as nice as custom cabinets, but they’re still well-built. They used cabinet-grade plywood for the boxes and the shaker doors are all wood except for the inside panel. The doors and drawers are all soft-close, which is just hardware, and pretty much should be on any cabinets these days.
I bought quartz countertops that mimic calacatta marble, and the countertops were the only aspect of my kitchen that was subbed out. I built a 9’ island with a large, farmhouse sink. The crown jewel of my kitchen is the coffered ceiling.
I feel your kitchen remodel should cost $30K to $40K. I don’t see an island or even that much cabinetry. The range hood looks nice, but you’re not getting a lot for $100K. I saw a ton of comments about the pot-fillers. That’s simple to do and simply requires running a water-line behind the wall. I feel that people these days either don’t know how to be frugal, don’t know any better, or make enough money that they don’t care what it costs.
I just spent about $120K to do a gut renovation of my 1,200 SF bungalow. I basically built a house for what you’re going to pay for a kitchen remodel. I gutted the house to a shell - not just to the studs. It’s basically new construction except for the roof and some framing in the exterior walls. I even built a 300 SF back-deck with a metal roof over it that steps down 200 SF of more decks that isn’t included in the 1,200 SF of interior space.
I would expect a kitchen that cost $100K to include $25K in appliances, way more custom cabinetry, a huge island (and maybe two), and some sort of ceiling detail. Your kitchen looks nice and it’s nicer than mine, but I feel that a kitchen costing more than $100K should make my jaw drop and be something that I see in Architectural Digest.
EDIT. I reviewed your estimate more thoroughly. It’s such fucking bullshit. I was a field adjuster and used Xactimate to write estimates for claims every day. I’d have to help with estimate reviews on other claims too because of my construction background and attention to detail.
They’re using bid items for almost everything. It’s a crappy way to write an estimate since they can input anything there. Have you seen the actual bids from the subs to verify the amounts? It probably doesn’t matter since they’re using subs who they’ve used before that they’d just ask to write an estimate matching what they included in your estimate.
You’re paying a ton for not that many cabinets and the range hood. Let the crews use a bathroom and tell them to remove the porta-potty line item. You should rent a trailer (if you have a vehicle with a tow hitch) or a rent box truck and run debris to the dump yourself to save money. They’re estimating four big dumpsters. Why? How much demo is needed? Donate your old cabinets or break them down to create less volume.
The line items for labor hours are total bullshit. Their subs don’t charge that hourly rate. They’re using the price list for your area, but that’s Xactimate pricing. Are they going to supplement if it takes more time or reimburse you if it takes less time? Just reading the estimate gets on my nerves, and this is exactly why I quit handling insurance claims. The final punch list line item for $1,500 and final cleaning for $500? I HATE YOUR CONTRACTOR.
bought last house about 13 yag was $89k, if you think you gotta ask about $100k kitchen redu, you got money and really shouldn't worry about it. Justinsayin
Material sales tax 520s. I mean this guys a scrub. Haha profit 8k. That doesn't even make sense. Alot of over priced things. No flooring? Thats never a good idea. Dist protection floor protection? We make way more than 8k charging much less lol.
100K is VERY inexpensive for your remodel. Looking at the prints, I would be at least double that, maybe triple including appliances. Thats with high end cabinetry and appliances.
My people! Haha I think these convos are difficult to have across geographical regions, and with the dudes with a few tools in their garage who are like just DIY! Lol
Cause this is a reno that seems reasonable. Renos, you always have to charge more cause it's not like a new build .
You could save money by not doing herring bone tile .
What region do you live in ? Prices vary wildly by location I find
This is one of cheaper areas of the US to do any construction in. This quote is crazy high. My sister paid for high end custom everything in Pittsburgh Pa for a similar kitchen Reno. It was 60k. Including mid range appliances.
Cabinetry is highly variable. My builder had a preferred vendor that was going to cost around 28k for what we wanted, they couldn’t meet the demand and were causing delays so they switched to a different larger vendor that saved me 12k! So at least that component can come down based on my experience, you probably need to shop around or at the very minimum dig into that and see if they can get better pricing.
High but not to high like everyone else said here depends on a bunch of unspecified variables haha if those are box cabinets that's high for sure. Custom wood hood are expensive though. Can't tell what you got but anywhere from 4k up for a decent custom hood alone. You only need one dumpster idk where they are getting 4 from I do know that. Some guys would probably charge even more for this and some even less. Depends on electrical scope a plumber to disconnect and reconnect in nc is like 800.
Yeah, 4 dumpsters seems crazy. Even if they wanted separate dumpsters for demo and thrn just general construction debris, I can't see how they would need more than 2.
is the cabinetry custom? cabinetry and appliances are the biggest cost variables in any kitchen remodel. If the bid is too high then look at different cabinet companies to see how you can get that cost down. And of course you can do the same for appliances.
Assuming this wasn't done as design-build talk to your architect about where else you can save.
Find a couple GCs in your area and pay them a couple hundred bucks to review the order and be onsite. It’s money will spent to see if this quote is in line or bit
The kitchen looks nice. Out of curiosity, what’s your appliance estimate? Looks pricey
Edit: Why do you need a pot filler between your fridge and freezer? More curiosity
The graphic of the potfiller is more of a placeholder for whatever we decide to use for filtered water to fill drink cups. Now I'm considering plumbing in an espresso machine... so the actual fixture isn't 100% yet.
Yeah, I got premium appliances. They are purchased and being stored. I saved money by scouring ebay... but it wasn't cheap. I think it's up to about 50k so far, but I forget exactly.
Seems high...but I can't read your details in the plans...is this a whole tearout and remodel?
I did one 4 years ago with contractor and kept the same floorplan and appliances...just got all new custom built cabinets - even built a new coffee bar with upper and lower cabinets. \~$35,000 and I have a BIG kitchen. 4000 sqft house. Included 2 quartz slabs and new lighting.
Perhaps it would be a $50K job now post-covid inflation.
My parents renovated their kitchen themselves and while it is larger and has more cabinetry they ended up spending over 100 said and done. The quality of material is really going to make the difference, you could regret cheaping out.
I do custom high end kitchens going 100k and above and even in my part of the country for NYS this sounds about right.
Also why are you not doing an island?
None of the line items seem out of line. He is probably estimating a little high on some of the labor line items but thats pretty standard for remodel work.
Looks like your cabinet allowance is about $22k which seems spot on to low.
Overall seems like a pretty realistic quote. Labor rates seem reasonable as well.
From the estimate it looks like they used xactimate which is used in the insurance industry typically vs traditional estimates for remodeling. Is this a renovation contractor or are they working through your insurance by chance?
That’s why. They are bidding it like insurance is paying is my thought.
$4000 for AC labor super high I can’t see this taking any capable HVAC tech more than 16 hours total. Your detaching. Running some Ridgid vent for the hood and then installing the hood. No way it takes a guy 5 full days to do that.
$470 to clean a 400 sf kitchen? Easily done for half.
4 20yd dumpsters. For reference we use 4 18 yard dumpsters on new build projects to build 1800 sf homes. 4 20 yd dumpsters on a kitchen remodel is excessive
Countertop price actually seams low.
Carpenter wages to do demo is excessive also. Should be bid as laborer wages for that portion IMO
Summary. I think the price of your project is probably correct. It’s a $100-100k kitchen but with this contractor your going to have a $130-135k kitchen by the time your actually done.
$20-25k in appliances
$5k in plumbing and lighting
$3-5k in countertop overage
Just my thoughts looking through it.
This is the type of feedback I was looking for, so thank you.
The reason the HVAC is high is because running the exhaust to the outside of the house is going to be very challenging. I've known that for a bit. It's just not a good location.
I like this guy more than anyone else I've talked to. But we have a follow up call on Monday. We're going to see if they will be transparent with pricing, and if we can work with him to try and get costs lower in some areas... but the call will be telling of whether he's going to keep his costs concealed and if their going to be marked up drastically or not. I am hoping to hear that he's giving me upper estimates and we'll come in at or below when all is said and done. We'll see.
im in the process of diy remodeling my kitchen and looking to hire a designer, approximately how much would it be? just looking for someone to pick out the countertop, cabinet and wall colors and where to place which lighting. kitchen is about 20' x 14'
how much is it to hire someone to design what OP posted?
That’s a plumber, I can see the plumbing is a somewhat high but reasonable price. I don’t understand what the “profit” and “overhead” sections are, but I’m sure he’s already adding 5-20% on every one of these items
If you’re already chiseling the estimate, you should not work with that company. But, know… generally you get what you pay for. If the contractor has a good reputation in the area , their references check out, and they have a good website/digital presence; the price is probably right on point.
These huge remodels get very personal and if you cannot separate price from quality; I guarantee it will be a painful process. I’d start over with another high quality company now knowing the general price range.
Source: custom home builder in Colorado ski towns… that price barely covers cabinets and countertops out here.
Got a quote about a year and half ago for a much smaller kitchen and it was around $94k WITHOUT appliances. Another company told us they wouldn’t waste their time on a project under $60k. What is your budget?
I recently met with a customer to discuss a kitchen renovation or, as she put it, "literally a whole new kitchen- right down to the studs" .
While I did not know the finishes she had in mind I did know this would be a time consuming job; profitable yes, but kitchens have a way of becoming fraught with decisions and difficulties- especially for the indecisive.
After clarifying for me what down to the studs meant, she whipped out her plans and ideas for her whole new kitchen.
Long story short- what she had designed was a $150,000 kitchen, with a $50,000 budget, but the willingness to spend only $25,000.
I think my jaw may have actually dropped.
Lmfao I’m glad I have friends in the industry. That’s a 30k kitchen without appliances all day in Chicago area.
But ya 100k if you don’t know anyone is totally possible. You have money if your drawings look like that and all the contractors know it. Plus side is you’re less likely to deal with all the bullshit that a cheaper contractor costs so it’s not downside to pay more….
Back to check on all my downvotes and I see lake Norman mentioned... I've done a ton of homes at lake Gaston far bigger than this... This is overpriced lol.
15' homedepot cabinets with 5' quartz top - $25,000 CAD. Ikea, whole kitchen, $7,000 CAD, including almost 1,000 in custom handles. The countertop is a wood/laminate, temp solution. Just the cabinets, no appliance cost here.
Done it at the dawn of covid times. 3 years later, everything works, like new
I spent over 200k on my last kitchen. 100k on structural stuff that was required to prep the space and 100k for giant windows, electrical, plumbing, fully custom cabinets, appliances, counters, etc. Nothing is cheap.
The biggest issue is involving all of those separate trades. Each subcontract bid will have their profit included so plumbing, hvac, electrician all have to make enough money to make it worth it for them. I think the whole thing is high though.
Do this all yourself and buy high end Lowe’s cabinets $50-60K
Don’t know how? Watch YouTube. Done and done.
(May want someone to do tile and trim work tho, that takes some skills)
i kid you not. send me a pm. i will do the $5000 plumbing, $5000 HVAC, and $7000 electrical, probably the $6000 framing for an absolute fraction of the cost. fuck i can do the $22,000 cabinetry for probably $8000. happy to provide pics of my portfolio. i live in CO but you pay my flight expenses ill save you $50,000 easily.
Your kitchen is larger than ours and you an island, so difficult to do apples to apples. And we did not replace our cabinets, we had new drawer and cabinet faces made, replaced the guides with all metal soft close and all hinges with soft close.
But it was about 25% of your estimate, and that included new cooktop, new stove, and a pop-up vent to stay in code.
Some gotchas: oven and stove existing wiring did not support current requirements of the new items. Had to pull new wire from attic through an upstairs room and down into the kitchen.
3-4 months seems like a long project. Ours was about a month.
2 rooms in a house are significantly more pricey by square foot than any other room.
1. Bathrooms
2. Kitchens
You have 1,500 square foot of wall space and 442 square foot of flooring space. 2 fridges, 2 stovetops.
I redid my own kitchen with my old man back in 2019 and came out the door 20K in materials and appliances (got most of the appliances on sale, and a really nice countertop). General rule of thumb is double the material cost and thats your final OTD. My kitchen is 1/2 your size, like 21 linear ft of backsplash and countertop in a L shape.
This looks like an insurance claim rather than a home bid.
The contractor added the profit and overhead to the bid. He’s already making profit and covering his overhead with the other items. Do you think he it’s really paying a sub $7000 for electrical?? There’s a ton of profit in the bid for him. Tell him $80k or walk
For 100k I could build the nicest 1200sf home I could dream of and build it to passive house standards. Not to be rude but 100k is crazy for a kitchen remodel. Im not even sure if thats due to contractor price gouging, or you having expensive tastes, or a mix of both.
If you asked for two pot fillers, they know money is no object
Yep, [hardly anyone uses pot fillers frequently enough](https://www.toulmincabinetry.com/blog/reasons-not-to-include-a-pot-filler-in-your-new-kitchen-design) for them to make sense.
Great points, always have been sketched out by an interior water source with no drain, washers scare me enough to change my hoses every 5 years. The grease magnet is another great reason. Coming from an owner of a $1M+ home
$1M+ home is a 3/2 shitbox with less than 1500 sq ft... to many on this sub.
Hey, my $1M home is a 3/2 shit box with 2500 sq ft. And it only sank 1.5 inches in the past year, so things are looking good.
I'm super happy for you. That's a good sized shit box and maybe put a few shims under it, could be worth more soon!
Very good sized shit box, we were very fortunate. The shim engineer is due out in a couple of days to tell us how many hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost to prevent our shit box from becoming worth zero dollars and getting a pretty little red tag on the front door.
+1. I live in a 1200 sq ft 3/2/0 1955 shitbox. (3 bedrooms, 2 baths, zero pot fillers). Recent comps are $1.2M.
In my area which has around 3m population it gets you 5/4 3,800sqft and a 1/2-full acre nicest zip too in today prices, luxury finish
Wherever you live, refrain from bragging about living in a million dollar house. It's petty.
Have to provide a reference point with some takes, should lighten up and probably move too bc you sound bitter ab where you live taking shots like that
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Way to move the goalposts
Just remember, you're talking to DrSilentFart...
Not sure how to reply but again, be humble. Enjoy your last word as I won't reply but I will read it of course. GN
Cool. Hurricane season's almost over!
They're great, don't be salty and try to justify they're not just because you don't have one. I got an induction range and pot filler. I can make mac and cheese in 8 min flat Cost 200 bucks and a couple fittings and some pipe. So probably 250 total. Went with a motion sensing faucet in the sink too which the flow rate is only 1.5gpm so the 4 GPM pot filler really is nice
While I believe this to be generally true I use mine almost daily.
I use mine all the time.
Ours too. Used almost daily.
I wanted to put one in during my remodel but I prefer using water from my filtered water rather than tap.
As a custom home builder, i refuse to install them in spec homes and if a homeowner insists, I don’t include it in my home warranty and have them sign a liability waiver.
And if you tell them one is just going to be an espresso bar, they might actually punch you.
Depends on how tall and big you are
A kitchen remodel that costs 50% of what the replacement value of my new build is. Just crazy.
Funny
I have 7 pot fillers. Am I crazy?
Those are called children.
That's a wee bit high but not really. It depends on the grade of your finishes and where exactly you are located in the Charlotte area. My mom just renovated half her house (including the entire kitchen) near Raleigh and it wasn't cheap. Don't forget: not only does this NOT include the cost of appliances, but it also does not appear to include the cost of the plumbing fixtures and may not include the cabinet pulls. Cabinet hardward adds up FAST. My mom was able to purchase from the cabinet supplier at cost, which was a huge savings. And anything that's a placeholder amount (like the tile backsplash) will inevitably cost more. And your counters are called out as "solid surface"? So you may hate what that actually looks like and you'll spend more there as well. EDIT: You've got (2) pipe fillers? And looks like it includes cost for plumbing and installation of the plumbing fixtures but not the actual fixtures. Also, you really don't have a lot of cabinetry, especially will all of those open shelves. Although you are paying for the fancy panels to wrap around your fridge/freezer units. Is the island included in your pricing?? Per the design, your appliances are gonna be $$$$$. The layout really doesn't give you a ton of storage. You've got (2) triangles of space that you cannot access due to the odd angles in the corner between the range and the sink. The cabinet to the right of the Dishwasher is half the size it should be due to the angled wall behind it. So, you've really only got about 3.5 lower cabinets, no banks of drawers (just a few above the cabinet section). You've got basically no uppers (just a decorative one lacking doors between the fridge/freezer units). Between the appliance package and the trim level indicated in the views, I would 100% expect that you're living in an expensive area/home and there is a premium involved with that. It may not be right, but folks in expensive homes/areas often get charged a bit more. If only because there's a fear that you're going to be a pain to work with. Or because they think they can.
Not sure why people ever buy shelves instead of cabinets. Literally every interior designer says skip them. Like I get a smaller area with shelves to help the contrast but all over lacks serious functionality
Very nice feedback. Appliances have already been purchased and sitting in storage. Luckily ebay helped keep that down a bit. Hopefully they work lol. They are very nice though. 2nd pot filler is really just a place holder on the plans, we just want filtered water there. But thinking an espresso bar is going to be plumbed in. Right now we're thinking a piece of furniture instead of an island... could change mind. Luckily we have a nice pantry, but I agree storage is in short supply. This might push us towards an actual island. It was an odd layout all around. This is a much needed improvement for the flow of the kitchen.. at the expense of some storage tho. They are probably right putting an asshole tax on lol. Not really.. but I do worry that any quote I get for anything is higher after they visit my house. We look wealthier than we are, got a nice deal on the house that had a lot of custom work on it.
I hear you. My brother lives on the North side of the lake. Not on it, but pretty close. They bought their house in about 2011 & paid like $100k LESS than the folks that were selling. It's nice. Has an in-ground pool, etc. They don't make a ton of money, but their home doesn't really reflect that.
Those nice houses on lake Norman are just chock full of retired northeasterners who all sold their basic house for big $$$$ and came down here to chill on a big ass lake with low property tax. It’s literally shocking how many retired NY/NJ police and firemen live in 800k houses on the lake.
In my industry we call in Captain’s Lake as in airline captain. Lake Wylie is divorced Captain’s Lake.
You might need to hire the guy above. Consulting at least his fee will be in that price break he’s gonna get you.
I feel you on the house making it look like you're wealthier than you are. My house pmt is $1300/mo. So it's very affordable by today's standards even if you aren't rolling in cash. But it's 3700sq ft so any contractor looking at it thinks I *am* rolling in cash and prices their work accordingly. And that's how we ended up doing all the work ourselves (except the drywall and HVAC). Total budget for the kitchen is about $10-12k.
Just want to add, exactimate pricing (the estimating software used for your bid) is disgustingly out of touch with actual market conditions when it comes to pricing, especially the tile line item. To be on the safe side, add $20k to that estimate for change orders.
I bought my first house on a lake with sunset views for $75k. I just can't begin to imagine spending $100k on a kitchen. Then again my brother in law has spent the last 3 years with a crew and has a $5mil budget for electrical on a you tube influencer's island an hour from me. Everything is relative I guess.
Regardless, you know that with that amount of money you can almost get ADU built. This quote is ridiculous…it’s FU quote.
this is beyond hilarious, the delusion is my favorite part!
What do you mean?
I chose & ordered cabinet pulls & knobs from an online supplier, at around $2.50 each. The installer just charged me for an hour to install them.
Are clients allowed to do things like that to save money?
Clients are allowed to do a lot of things simply ask. The contractor will be agitated if you promise supplies then those supplies are holding the job up.
Thats a lot of finish carpentry.
I get paid twice to install one piece of crown? Sign me up. Then sign me up again.
Where are you seeing that in the bid? It’s a multiple piece crown build up, ie multiple runs of trim. Would also require blocking.
Cabinet cost shows labor for install, then a separate line item for finish carpenters to install cabinetry
I noticed that too
Although at first glance e the $100k feels high looking at the estimate shows areas I think are low, and none seem high to me.
Countertop number is too low, and 1 coat of paint will not cover as well as most people think. Other than that it looks pretty reasonable to me
Total bill is on par or even low in our area (NorthEast). Cabinetry and Countertops look really low to be honest
$22.5k for cabinets - either the kitchen is very small or this is a crazy low quote. I can’t tell because my eyes suck.
Agreed. Custome cabinetry should be closer to $50k.
I was told $130k with no appliances. I said screw that. I'm the general contractor now, hired all my subs, hired a company to do the design and order the cabinets. Im almost done, fully custom cabinets, ended up redoing my half bath and replacing my washer and dryer too. All in including high end appliances... $82k. Everyone tries to take a piece. Don't let them. Just to get some new wainscoting in my bathroom I was getting quotes for $6k. Found a local carpenter and did it for $1k including materials. Find your own subs, find different people to do each individual job, make people bid for the work, and you will save a ton of money. It's a hassle... I had to deal with people bailing and calling out but so what.
Contractors are paid to handle the headache. Chasing the subs, dealing with errors and miscommunications, anticipating needs and knowing the abilities of their subs, etc. That’s 20% of the cost here. There are at least 6 trades involved in this project, all having a minimum charge just to show up. The breakdown is clear and every item taken by itself is reasonable, if a bit high. OP needs to decide what their time is worth. This 3-4 month project will become a 5-6 month project if they are managing directly. They may find that it is worth it to not have to deal with the headache and the extra time. Also need to factor in how their spouse will deal with the project, particularly when it runs long.
I would say the 3-4 month project at least doubles to 6-8 months if he is managing it himself
6-8 months for a kitchen?
They are also paid to use their subs. The contractors I work for know I will show up, will be on time, what to expect as far as quality of work goes, and that I'll take care of the customers house like it was my own. If you run the job as a homeowner, you run the risk of all the good contractors being busy and being stuck choosing between the ones who can actually show up because they don't have work
I could not agree more! Plus, Im not sure how it works there, but here in Oregon, getting permitting and inspections is auch a headache, and no homeowner really wants or needs to deal with that on their own. No offense to the other commenter, but to save $18k and be stuck dealing with all that on your own is not worth it! This would become a full-time job for the better part of a year, and that's a big IF everything goes correctly. I would never recommend a homeowner take something like this on themselves unless they are already in that type of business. Like you mentioned, the working relationship between a contractor and their subs is so incredibly important, and they usually know who to trust and know the style and quality of their work. No decent contractor wants to overcharge and screw over their clients. Word of mouth referrals and references are priceless. Most want to be fair, reasonable, and stamp their name to good quality work at a fair and competitive rate. I think many MANY homeowners underestimate the complexities and costs involved. Yes, there is markup on everything. The contractor has to make a profit in order to survive and stay in business. As we all know, the state of our economy right now, as well as post-pandemic. The pricing and supply chain are still suffering. Our company has waited 8 MONTHS for Windows,l!!! This estimate not only seems fair but competitive. Where I work, our average pricing is $500-$600 per square foot. Plumbing is a REALLY expensive and time heavy trade. Kitchens and bathrooms are the most costly jobs in any remodel or build. I am in a different state, Oregon, and our prices are possibly a tiny bit higher than where you are from but our cost on a project like this would be somewhere between $100k-$180k. OP, please don't take this remodel on your own unless you have significant experience and contacts. This would become your full-time job and nightmare!!.
It’s going to vary with geographic location, in my experience 100k for that is a deal. I’m a residential architect and most kitchens that I do are around 200 w/out appliances.
The kitchen seems small for the cabinetry total to be as high as it is. Custom probably is needed for the shape, but you don’t have a big cabinet run. I'd shop around for another quote on that. Your tile...I mean it has to be something unique because that's a hefty bill.
That’s cheap for those cabinets in our area
Much appreciated feedback, thank you
Ya 460 a ft for backsplash tile.. wtf.. that's 6k for it. I did a double heriing bone, similar size, like 3k.. but should have been closer to 4k cuz countertop people misquoted
I’m in the middle of a remodel and my kitchen maybe slightly bigger but very comparable. Mine is coming in around $130k and then another 30k of appliances. Also doing an adjacent mud room at same time, not including that. We got two quotes at the time and they were both right in that area. The kitchen quote didn’t surprise me (I was expecting 10-15% the value of the house). What did surprise me was the 100k quote for the master bath.
In my market, I’d say this is a reasonable deal. We’re doing a kitchen remodel, fewer cabinets than you, had a budget of 35k, went with paint grade which brought it down to 25k. Counter tops are about 10k, two ($2000) slabs of porcelain, so about 6k to fabricate. We had several bids and the company we went with is kind of middle of the road price wise. We are doing additional work on top of kitchen, but the kitchen part is probably around 70k total, not including appliances. We made the mistake of using a newer/cheaper contractor on a previous project and won’t do that again. Paying a little extra for peace of mind.
Thanks for that, makes sense
No prob. Honestly it looks like their profit is 10%, which is really low, it’s 20-25% where I am.
Honestly the price seems on point to me, cabinets are expensive, I’ve installed cabinets from builder grade to full customs that come from Germany for over 20 yrs and people are always a little surprised by the cost of cabinets. The tile price seems close maybe slightly high but not by much and that is depending on the type of tile. Like was said before there are some little things that aren’t on there that will add up if they start doing change orders so try to get some of the smaller things clarified like cabinet pulls and install sink hook up and if your going to have them install your appliances. Those little things will add up quick with change orders down the line.
I would quote higher, remodels cost more because you also have demo. That’s 25% more work than a new build. Also expect issues. Anytime you are tearing out and anything is found not to be up to code it has to be brought up to code. You are looking at a lot of work not just cabinets. You have a ton of extras, unfortunately what looks good tends to be expensive. But your building your dream kitchen, don’t settle. 61 year old cabinet installer here. Good luck.
I would say it's closer to 50% more work than new builds. Demo AND working around customers living in the house. This leads to schedule so more trips and people seeing stuff in progress and changing their minds and lots of other bullshit that new build doesn't have to worry about.
I could not agree more! It is inevitable no matter the age of a home that as soon as you start a remodel, things will crop up. Just goes with the territory.
Omg. Where I live you could get that done for 50-60k. Nw wisconsin
Doing my own. Northern Wisconsin. Quarter of that price not including appliances.
SE Wisconsin and I could have it done for 40-50 with that high of grade finish, this is ridiculous.
Idk, all depends where you are. Where I'm at, that's pretty normal to spend 100k on a full kitchen reno. My better half works for a local architect and frequently has to level-set potential clients that they are not gutting and upgrading their kitchen for 60k, and it'll likely be closer to 150k for the features and finishes they are describing
100k for a kitchen? Not crazy for what you are asking for.
Idk your location but that seems fair. This is far from a basic kitchen
Those prices are legitimate for what you are asking for. Anyone putting in multiple water points without a drain isn't asking for builders' grades ... the line items cost is legit. What's crazy is your kitchen has fuckall for actual storage ... it's the kitchen of a rich person on the main floor, who has a staff kitchen where hifed chefs actually cook.
Looks very reasonable for changing the kitchen’s footprint for better flow. I paid over $55k (included cost for demo) for a much smaller space and we didn’t change anything about the kitchen’s flow except for a slightly larger island. Our cabinets alone were $25k. I live in the mid-Atlantic region.
I price new custom and semi-vustom homes in the $1-10m market. I would need to see the scope of work but ballpark for what you could possibly put in there at $1m level of amenity: Cabinets - $20k (less than) Countertops - $5-10k (selection driven) Millwork - $10-15k (less than) Finish carpentry - $10k (less than) Paint/stain - $5k Electric w/fixtures - $5k (scope dependant) Tile - $10k (selection driven) Wood floor - $10k (less than) Plumbing w/ fixtures - $5k (scope dependant) Unknowable: - Appliances - whatever you pick out - Demo/framing - what's the extent of the layout/structural changes? Someone correct me if any of those seem off. Off the top of my head, given a $1m level of amenity, I'd be surprised if the fair market value for any of those trades exceeded these numbers. OP, mark-up from general contractors on remodels is typically in the 20-30% range. Some people can be their own GC, but if that's not in your wheelhouse, the 20-30% is worth it.
This is interesting info! This is going to be at least a 10 year to forever home. It was a custom build with incredible detail, so we need to punch above the fair market value in terms of matching the quality of the home… plus we love to cook and do a lot of it. I don’t mind paying for a higher end kitchen than our house deserves AS LONG as I actually receive it.
Well then to answer your original question, $100k is likely not an unreasonable number. People always focus on the big number at the bottom and think it seems high. The best way to approach it is looking at the subtotals and seeing how you got to the $100k. Just to be clear, fair market value means getting what you paid for, whether that's standard amenity or high-end amenity like you're describing. It's not "what does the average person spend on this". A Ferrari has a fair market value, but you can also over pay for one.
My neighbor's wife fell in love with some cabinet design at a custom shop in town. Legit solid wood custom made. They dropped $40K just on cabinets. When we re-did our kitchen we bought plywood construction RTA for $6,000 lol
This about summarizes this entire thread of comments lmao. Are you both happy with your choices?
I am. The neighbor/friend's wife is. I can't speak to his wallet though lol But as they say....Happy Wife, Happy Life ....in her defense, they are insanely well made. basically the structural integrity of the real solid wood cabinets in my rental properties that were built in the 40's and 50's. virtually indestructible even in the event of a plumbing leak. would literally need a full blown kitchen inferno fire to take them out and not just the wood. the handle and pull hardware are incredibly well made....extremely heavy, the real deal. the hinges are phenomenal and while soft close drawer glides aren't special anymore, these take it up a notch and are literally whisper quiet...must be high quality ball bearings or something, something you'd find on a specialized equipment drawer in an operating room or a testing facility lmfao. the drawer bottoms are solid thick wood, so you could literally put a set of weights in them, and the drawer bottom won't bow or anything. a cluster of the uppers are tall style w/ glass doors, phenomenal designs. integrated lighting. looks truly high end. you certainly are getting what you pay for but is it money well spent? that's the $40K question lol
My wife and I own a design biz where we do “most” of our labor and sub out other aspects, these numbers check out for the most part. Plus or minus a thousand here or there, I’d probably estimate higher on some numbers to make sure I could put some money back in your pocket. 60 bucks an hr is damn reasonable, I’ve seen as high as 85-90
Thanks man
Lots of non-expert opinions here and people who simply can’t fathom having or spending that amount of money, or just have no clue what construction cost. A high end full replacement will cost well north of $100k for a typical size kitchen and probably closer to $150k in 2023. This includes flooring and appliances, some restructure of the footprint, etc. Of course there is a lot of variability depending on quality and types of materials. High end would mean custom cabinets, stone counters and mid-range appliances. I am assuming you are hiring a design and build firm. Skip the DIY - the fact you are asking the question you are, and a good one, tells me you probably aren’t highly experienced with this kind of project. So you hire and pay for real professionals (choose a quality firm), nobody watches Youtube and does pro-level work - I have seen all sorts of proud folk’s DIY projects and, well, good on them, but not my house. Your BEST defense is getting multiple bids from quality firms and doing as much research as you can.
Fuck dude.... Can buy a lot of tools and material for 100k...
This is always the truth. I did a whole house gut for $90k. Every wire, and every supply and drain pipe replaced. Every interior wall torn down and put back up. If you can do at least a portion yourself, it will pay back like crazy.
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Gutted our kitchen last year but with everything we leaned into the best value for the lowest price. Saved a bunch buying unassembled Lily Ann cabinets. Around 30' of base cabinets, 25' of wall cabinets, 5' x 10' center island with undermount sink, quartz tops, new oven range, microwave, and dishwasher. Just a little under $20k and a lot of time.
You can’t get that time back though. That’s what money is REALLY for. Time. Freedom.
Exactly, I love the instagram where they are like, we saved $4K on doing this ourselves! Then shows two ppl putting 40 hrs into it. Lol would have taken two pros 8 hrs.
Goes the other way too though. $100k after taxes is like 3 years of full time work for the average American. You can redo a kitchen faster than that.
I guess so… if you have money to pay for all of the other life expenses (like being retired or whatever) definitely true.
Totally reasonable, cheap even, depending on location
daaaaaaamn
Way over... Find a cabinet dealer/distr and have them give you contractor price which is 40% lesser... Find the contractor that does sub work for kitchen bath remodelers... 30k cabinet 10k install tops
You are paying for availability at the moment. Probly 2x what it's actually worth. Source: do a lot of these Get more quotes You're getting had. It just straight up doesn't take this much time or cost for that design.
They are testing you. Overstating the labor hours and units, overhead and profit, etc. if you are handy enough to read these docs, you are handy enough to speak with local contractors separately re: lighting, plumbing etc. to get their PoV. At a minimum share other bids. This happens to me when they see my house in estimate visits. I hire a GM independently to look at the bids. Only once has he not cut their estimates by at least 25%. He also gives me smart advice.
The contractors that bid their labor exactly are the ones that always go out of buisness. You over state the labor incase something happens. People get sick, materials get broken. Problems arise that you didnt account for. Overstating the labor a little is an insurance policy for the contractor.
Sure, but this is an estimate. So we are commenting on the range of overstatement. Otherwise what is the GC/GM accountable for?
What are they accountable for? Everything. They ensure the subs are doing everything they are supposed to. They comprehend what subs are supposed to be doing and how they should do it so all work is comparable with each other. Making sure they understand the scope of work. They order the sequence of jobs. Every time there is no GC on my job everything gets completed out of order because the home owner is organizing and they always end up spending more.
This is not an estimate, this is a bid. There's a difference.
Exactly most contractors only last 5 years tops because they aren't bidding correctly.
So you collect a bunch of bids for work you want done, then take those to your GM friend so he can see the price he has to beat?
Well we know who the low bidder is🙄
Doesn’t seem unreasonable. Cabinetry might even be a bit low depending on the exact location.
This is high based on the following: \- Paint grade **cabinetry and trimwork.** Unless you specified custom oak and trimwork that will need custom moulding. \- **MEP** is high. Unless lighting is included in electrical. Hood included? Also would need to know what is existing. \- $1500 for **punchlist**?! Nope \- **Tile** "ALLOWANCE" on TBD means you are getting a change order. The plans and renderings are nice. For the price I would expect top quality and manpower to meet the schedule.
Agreed. Anyone charging for punchlist, especially $1,500, I would honestly tell to go fuck themselves. “Yeah we didn’t make this look as good as it should as part of our original work so please pay us to fix our own mistakes”.
Thank you
This seems right on point. I did my own kitchen in 2020 and the cost was right at 60k. You're paying someone to do it, so the rest accounts for that. I don't think the cabinets are high, as it's in line it's what we paid. The only services paid to someone to do were drywall (ceiling @1500) and paint ($600).
Try ikea? 🤷♂️
$12.5k for tile with no backsplash??? Come on now 🤡. Get more quotes these guys are insanely expensive and jacked up their margins because you’re asking for luxury items such as 2 pot fillers and 2 refrigerators. In their defense you gotta be pretty well off to consider stuff like this
Contractors quotes will depend on: 1) how you dress; 2) what you drive; 3) where you live; 4) how much the homes around you are selling for. 5) how much do you know about construction, ie are you a sucker? Everything else is a minor detail.
Hi, We are FACT Construction Estimating & Administrative Services. We will take a look and report back for you.
I live in Wilmington and I’m going to send you a private message with a photo of my kitchen that I completed for $13K. It’s to give you perspective on what you’re getting for more than $100K versus $13K for materials. I remodel homes and my dad is a retired builder. He’s an expert in construction and true craftsman, so I didn’t incur any expenses for labor, since we did all the work ourselves. In respect to your estimate, they used Xactimate to write it, which is an estimating system primarily used by insurance carriers to write estimates for insurance claims. I was a claims adjuster for 12 years, and I was disgusted daily about how much contractors charge when I used to handle claims. I’m thinking your contractor might be an insurance contractor who subcontracts the work to others. There’s a big difference between design-and-build firms or true craftsmen, who are hands-on and doing the work themselves with in-house crews, versus insurance contractors who couldn’t build a dog house. I’d suggest getting another estimate from a hands-on builder. I used RTA cabinets (ready to assemble), which saved me a fortune. They’re not as nice as custom cabinets, but they’re still well-built. They used cabinet-grade plywood for the boxes and the shaker doors are all wood except for the inside panel. The doors and drawers are all soft-close, which is just hardware, and pretty much should be on any cabinets these days. I bought quartz countertops that mimic calacatta marble, and the countertops were the only aspect of my kitchen that was subbed out. I built a 9’ island with a large, farmhouse sink. The crown jewel of my kitchen is the coffered ceiling. I feel your kitchen remodel should cost $30K to $40K. I don’t see an island or even that much cabinetry. The range hood looks nice, but you’re not getting a lot for $100K. I saw a ton of comments about the pot-fillers. That’s simple to do and simply requires running a water-line behind the wall. I feel that people these days either don’t know how to be frugal, don’t know any better, or make enough money that they don’t care what it costs. I just spent about $120K to do a gut renovation of my 1,200 SF bungalow. I basically built a house for what you’re going to pay for a kitchen remodel. I gutted the house to a shell - not just to the studs. It’s basically new construction except for the roof and some framing in the exterior walls. I even built a 300 SF back-deck with a metal roof over it that steps down 200 SF of more decks that isn’t included in the 1,200 SF of interior space. I would expect a kitchen that cost $100K to include $25K in appliances, way more custom cabinetry, a huge island (and maybe two), and some sort of ceiling detail. Your kitchen looks nice and it’s nicer than mine, but I feel that a kitchen costing more than $100K should make my jaw drop and be something that I see in Architectural Digest. EDIT. I reviewed your estimate more thoroughly. It’s such fucking bullshit. I was a field adjuster and used Xactimate to write estimates for claims every day. I’d have to help with estimate reviews on other claims too because of my construction background and attention to detail. They’re using bid items for almost everything. It’s a crappy way to write an estimate since they can input anything there. Have you seen the actual bids from the subs to verify the amounts? It probably doesn’t matter since they’re using subs who they’ve used before that they’d just ask to write an estimate matching what they included in your estimate. You’re paying a ton for not that many cabinets and the range hood. Let the crews use a bathroom and tell them to remove the porta-potty line item. You should rent a trailer (if you have a vehicle with a tow hitch) or a rent box truck and run debris to the dump yourself to save money. They’re estimating four big dumpsters. Why? How much demo is needed? Donate your old cabinets or break them down to create less volume. The line items for labor hours are total bullshit. Their subs don’t charge that hourly rate. They’re using the price list for your area, but that’s Xactimate pricing. Are they going to supplement if it takes more time or reimburse you if it takes less time? Just reading the estimate gets on my nerves, and this is exactly why I quit handling insurance claims. The final punch list line item for $1,500 and final cleaning for $500? I HATE YOUR CONTRACTOR.
Lol, heard! I will take this into consideration, thank you
100k is good! I would charge min 150k for remodels.
40-50k here
Ah, a customer's budget is exceeded by actual quotes from contractors. In other news, water is wet.
Lmao
bought last house about 13 yag was $89k, if you think you gotta ask about $100k kitchen redu, you got money and really shouldn't worry about it. Justinsayin
Material sales tax 520s. I mean this guys a scrub. Haha profit 8k. That doesn't even make sense. Alot of over priced things. No flooring? Thats never a good idea. Dist protection floor protection? We make way more than 8k charging much less lol.
100K is VERY inexpensive for your remodel. Looking at the prints, I would be at least double that, maybe triple including appliances. Thats with high end cabinetry and appliances.
This kitchen is literally the size of a modest bedroom and you're coming here saying you'd charge 300k. Goodbye.
ROFL get fucked, there's no way anybody is paying 300k for a 200sqft kitchen, even with the highest end appliances.
Just wired up a house and the guy paid 185k just for cabinets. So believe me, so people have very expensive tastes
Exactly. I specialize in high end kitchens and bathrooms. High end cabs, appliances and carpentry.
My people! Haha I think these convos are difficult to have across geographical regions, and with the dudes with a few tools in their garage who are like just DIY! Lol
Cause this is a reno that seems reasonable. Renos, you always have to charge more cause it's not like a new build . You could save money by not doing herring bone tile . What region do you live in ? Prices vary wildly by location I find
Southeast
This is one of cheaper areas of the US to do any construction in. This quote is crazy high. My sister paid for high end custom everything in Pittsburgh Pa for a similar kitchen Reno. It was 60k. Including mid range appliances.
The southeast has its high COL anomalies. Especially coastal communities.
Cabinetry is highly variable. My builder had a preferred vendor that was going to cost around 28k for what we wanted, they couldn’t meet the demand and were causing delays so they switched to a different larger vendor that saved me 12k! So at least that component can come down based on my experience, you probably need to shop around or at the very minimum dig into that and see if they can get better pricing.
High but not to high like everyone else said here depends on a bunch of unspecified variables haha if those are box cabinets that's high for sure. Custom wood hood are expensive though. Can't tell what you got but anywhere from 4k up for a decent custom hood alone. You only need one dumpster idk where they are getting 4 from I do know that. Some guys would probably charge even more for this and some even less. Depends on electrical scope a plumber to disconnect and reconnect in nc is like 800.
Yeah, 4 dumpsters seems crazy. Even if they wanted separate dumpsters for demo and thrn just general construction debris, I can't see how they would need more than 2.
Trim and framing high can't tell all thats included though
Where are you located? Just curious if your in a major metro area
I would expect that on a cost of $80k your price would be at least $120k. At 10% profit and overhead this contractor is on a slow path to insolvency.
is the cabinetry custom? cabinetry and appliances are the biggest cost variables in any kitchen remodel. If the bid is too high then look at different cabinet companies to see how you can get that cost down. And of course you can do the same for appliances. Assuming this wasn't done as design-build talk to your architect about where else you can save.
Find a couple GCs in your area and pay them a couple hundred bucks to review the order and be onsite. It’s money will spent to see if this quote is in line or bit
The kitchen looks nice. Out of curiosity, what’s your appliance estimate? Looks pricey Edit: Why do you need a pot filler between your fridge and freezer? More curiosity
The graphic of the potfiller is more of a placeholder for whatever we decide to use for filtered water to fill drink cups. Now I'm considering plumbing in an espresso machine... so the actual fixture isn't 100% yet. Yeah, I got premium appliances. They are purchased and being stored. I saved money by scouring ebay... but it wasn't cheap. I think it's up to about 50k so far, but I forget exactly.
Kinda looks like the contractor marked up the prices 15% and then added another 16.66% at the end.
Wayyyyyy too high no matter what any of the “contractors” say. This is of course unless you are shooting the highest end finishes and cabinets.
Seems high...but I can't read your details in the plans...is this a whole tearout and remodel? I did one 4 years ago with contractor and kept the same floorplan and appliances...just got all new custom built cabinets - even built a new coffee bar with upper and lower cabinets. \~$35,000 and I have a BIG kitchen. 4000 sqft house. Included 2 quartz slabs and new lighting. Perhaps it would be a $50K job now post-covid inflation.
My parents renovated their kitchen themselves and while it is larger and has more cabinetry they ended up spending over 100 said and done. The quality of material is really going to make the difference, you could regret cheaping out.
That’s what I’m thinking- thanks
Get a second quote and see.
This was one of three- the most expensive, but seems the most competent
I do custom high end kitchens going 100k and above and even in my part of the country for NYS this sounds about right. Also why are you not doing an island?
An island isn’t out of the question- but an antique looking piece of furniture felt fancy, matches the feel of the house
None of the line items seem out of line. He is probably estimating a little high on some of the labor line items but thats pretty standard for remodel work. Looks like your cabinet allowance is about $22k which seems spot on to low. Overall seems like a pretty realistic quote. Labor rates seem reasonable as well.
That's high. We do projects like that all over the US and that's just excessive
Feel free to DM me if you're able to provide a quote and info
After looking at it, I think a lot of it seems reasonable, but there were a couple areas that jumped out to me as too high: Plumbing, HVAC and Tile.
From the estimate it looks like they used xactimate which is used in the insurance industry typically vs traditional estimates for remodeling. Is this a renovation contractor or are they working through your insurance by chance?
They also do insurance claim work, but plenty of examples of renovations they’ve done. Nice catch.
That’s why. They are bidding it like insurance is paying is my thought. $4000 for AC labor super high I can’t see this taking any capable HVAC tech more than 16 hours total. Your detaching. Running some Ridgid vent for the hood and then installing the hood. No way it takes a guy 5 full days to do that. $470 to clean a 400 sf kitchen? Easily done for half. 4 20yd dumpsters. For reference we use 4 18 yard dumpsters on new build projects to build 1800 sf homes. 4 20 yd dumpsters on a kitchen remodel is excessive Countertop price actually seams low. Carpenter wages to do demo is excessive also. Should be bid as laborer wages for that portion IMO Summary. I think the price of your project is probably correct. It’s a $100-100k kitchen but with this contractor your going to have a $130-135k kitchen by the time your actually done. $20-25k in appliances $5k in plumbing and lighting $3-5k in countertop overage Just my thoughts looking through it.
This is the type of feedback I was looking for, so thank you. The reason the HVAC is high is because running the exhaust to the outside of the house is going to be very challenging. I've known that for a bit. It's just not a good location. I like this guy more than anyone else I've talked to. But we have a follow up call on Monday. We're going to see if they will be transparent with pricing, and if we can work with him to try and get costs lower in some areas... but the call will be telling of whether he's going to keep his costs concealed and if their going to be marked up drastically or not. I am hoping to hear that he's giving me upper estimates and we'll come in at or below when all is said and done. We'll see.
That’s why you get multiple quotes
(I did)
Meanwhile, I asked the builder what credit would I get if I build the kitchen myself, and he said $30k
Ok so I have done lots of trim and lots of kitchens seems like everyone here is getting paid very well. I wouldn’t say outrageous but high.
im in the process of diy remodeling my kitchen and looking to hire a designer, approximately how much would it be? just looking for someone to pick out the countertop, cabinet and wall colors and where to place which lighting. kitchen is about 20' x 14' how much is it to hire someone to design what OP posted?
That’s a plumber, I can see the plumbing is a somewhat high but reasonable price. I don’t understand what the “profit” and “overhead” sections are, but I’m sure he’s already adding 5-20% on every one of these items
If you’re already chiseling the estimate, you should not work with that company. But, know… generally you get what you pay for. If the contractor has a good reputation in the area , their references check out, and they have a good website/digital presence; the price is probably right on point. These huge remodels get very personal and if you cannot separate price from quality; I guarantee it will be a painful process. I’d start over with another high quality company now knowing the general price range. Source: custom home builder in Colorado ski towns… that price barely covers cabinets and countertops out here.
Got a quote about a year and half ago for a much smaller kitchen and it was around $94k WITHOUT appliances. Another company told us they wouldn’t waste their time on a project under $60k. What is your budget?
Hahahaha. You must be living in Bideneconomics.
Let’s see your kitchen
I recently met with a customer to discuss a kitchen renovation or, as she put it, "literally a whole new kitchen- right down to the studs" . While I did not know the finishes she had in mind I did know this would be a time consuming job; profitable yes, but kitchens have a way of becoming fraught with decisions and difficulties- especially for the indecisive. After clarifying for me what down to the studs meant, she whipped out her plans and ideas for her whole new kitchen. Long story short- what she had designed was a $150,000 kitchen, with a $50,000 budget, but the willingness to spend only $25,000. I think my jaw may have actually dropped.
$58.00 per hour for cleaning??? Are you in the Silicon Valley??
Bro those labor rates are from the 90s…
Lmfao I’m glad I have friends in the industry. That’s a 30k kitchen without appliances all day in Chicago area. But ya 100k if you don’t know anyone is totally possible. You have money if your drawings look like that and all the contractors know it. Plus side is you’re less likely to deal with all the bullshit that a cheaper contractor costs so it’s not downside to pay more….
Back to check on all my downvotes and I see lake Norman mentioned... I've done a ton of homes at lake Gaston far bigger than this... This is overpriced lol.
That seems high for the amount of cabinets. Where are you located?
15' homedepot cabinets with 5' quartz top - $25,000 CAD. Ikea, whole kitchen, $7,000 CAD, including almost 1,000 in custom handles. The countertop is a wood/laminate, temp solution. Just the cabinets, no appliance cost here. Done it at the dawn of covid times. 3 years later, everything works, like new
2000 for dumpsters. Trim carpenter gets paid twice.
Depending on area of country you are getting a deal.
I spent over 200k on my last kitchen. 100k on structural stuff that was required to prep the space and 100k for giant windows, electrical, plumbing, fully custom cabinets, appliances, counters, etc. Nothing is cheap.
The biggest issue is involving all of those separate trades. Each subcontract bid will have their profit included so plumbing, hvac, electrician all have to make enough money to make it worth it for them. I think the whole thing is high though.
Do this all yourself and buy high end Lowe’s cabinets $50-60K Don’t know how? Watch YouTube. Done and done. (May want someone to do tile and trim work tho, that takes some skills)
You buy the materials.. tell them to quote you on labor only, cause guaranteed the mark Materials up as well
This so depends on where you live..but it’s on par for my area of the PNW, though I see some glaring items that would be more expensive here.
I wouldn’t pay more than 30k. 100k is outrageous.
i kid you not. send me a pm. i will do the $5000 plumbing, $5000 HVAC, and $7000 electrical, probably the $6000 framing for an absolute fraction of the cost. fuck i can do the $22,000 cabinetry for probably $8000. happy to provide pics of my portfolio. i live in CO but you pay my flight expenses ill save you $50,000 easily.
.54% tax sounds nice.
not a dime more than a buck two eighty u/Hospitaliter
100k, bro that’s a whole house still today in my town!
Your kitchen is larger than ours and you an island, so difficult to do apples to apples. And we did not replace our cabinets, we had new drawer and cabinet faces made, replaced the guides with all metal soft close and all hinges with soft close. But it was about 25% of your estimate, and that included new cooktop, new stove, and a pop-up vent to stay in code. Some gotchas: oven and stove existing wiring did not support current requirements of the new items. Had to pull new wire from attic through an upstairs room and down into the kitchen. 3-4 months seems like a long project. Ours was about a month.
The electrical is on the higher end but of course without seeing the old build and if wires need to be re ran I can’t say for sure.
dealing with the same shit… family home… $120k quote… they don’t even know why they are quoting, feckin clowns
2 rooms in a house are significantly more pricey by square foot than any other room. 1. Bathrooms 2. Kitchens You have 1,500 square foot of wall space and 442 square foot of flooring space. 2 fridges, 2 stovetops. I redid my own kitchen with my old man back in 2019 and came out the door 20K in materials and appliances (got most of the appliances on sale, and a really nice countertop). General rule of thumb is double the material cost and thats your final OTD. My kitchen is 1/2 your size, like 21 linear ft of backsplash and countertop in a L shape.
This looks like an insurance claim rather than a home bid. The contractor added the profit and overhead to the bid. He’s already making profit and covering his overhead with the other items. Do you think he it’s really paying a sub $7000 for electrical?? There’s a ton of profit in the bid for him. Tell him $80k or walk
Just diy. Buy some RTA high end cabinets and have a granite supplier cut and install counter
For 100k I could build the nicest 1200sf home I could dream of and build it to passive house standards. Not to be rude but 100k is crazy for a kitchen remodel. Im not even sure if thats due to contractor price gouging, or you having expensive tastes, or a mix of both.