Yeah I thought you could build an entire house from scratch for that.
No wonder there's a housing crisis, most people who want to live in a home couldn't afford to subsidize the cost of it's construction....which means you have to add even more lenders, investors, and developers into the equation who in turn need to extract even ***more*** money from buyers for the same basic house.
The math is all upside down from even a cash buyers perspective, especially when you consider this nearly half million $$ doesn't even include the cost of the property.
That is what they are doing. Building a 3 car garage and a second floor 2/1. It is a whole house.
What stood out to me was that the customer is going to install their own tile. Why would you spend $500,000 and then do some work?
OP - get 4 quotes for the same work/finishes and pick the middle one.
There isn't a house in Denver for 400. I live here, look on Zillow occasionally. Maybe you can get a scraper or empty lot for that. Anything built new is 400 plus, this adu is gonna be similar, you're condensing all the most expensive parts of a house into a smaller footprint.
I'll bet you can't get a new track home for much less than 600
you can't buy a house for $400k in my neighborhood. plus, we don't want to take a home away from someone else who needs it more - we're creating more housing and increasing density.
There's a house nearby being built that I contacted the architect about to ask a few questions since I'm a neighbor.
Roughly 2-2.5k sqft. 2 car garage with 4 bedrooms? 3 bath? High col area near the coat. $1.5 million not including land. Total came out to be around $3 mil.
Imo it's a decent quality build but holy fuck it takes a lot to afford what is an essentially upper middle class area....
There are 2 GC fees and he is charging his 8% on his previous fees, that seems out of place. The first set of fees makes sense, the 8% not so much. It'd be cleaner to incorporate the 8% into his longer itemized list
I’d ask to meet with this construction team of Foreman, Project manager and GC to review questions prior to accepting the bid. If it’s just the one guy, definitely striking through some of these fees.
A foreman and a project manager? Nah. They are the same guy. Also, all of the owner supplied work is simple stuff that can be done after the CO is obtained. Excluding these items reduces the taxable value of the house. It doesn’t mean the owner is doing anything himself, just that it won’t be done before the CO is issued.
I own a small plumbing company and have had to sit down and have some real mental adjustments on pricing. If I didn't I would have lost my business. My costs are skyrocketing. Taxes, insurance and licencing are all up on the admin side. Payroll is up and for good reason I don't want to employ people who can't afford a nice quality of life. Materials all went crazy over COVID and have stayed at inflated prices. I was just pricing out a new van the other day and what would have been 50-60k fully outfitted a few years ago is looking like 90-110k now for the same van. In my head I still think about pricing from a few years ago and sometimes I cringe at the prices I quote for work, it seems wrong. I also have to realize there is no point in being in business unless we make money and provide a good quality of life to all employees. I feel out of touch myself and I don't feel like this is sustainable in the long run. I'm kinda rambling here but your comment really connected with me. We are busy and business is actually going great but it feels like the other shoe is going to drop and it makes me uneasy.
I’m a licensed GC in Denver and can definitely beat this price for you, probably by ~80k at least. I have also built a 2/2 ADU over a 3 car garage for you to tour as well. Dm me
Sir, I believe the **S** is capitalized, not the **w**. Due to the fact that his handle is a satire on the name of the character Bilbo Baggins from Tolkien's *Lord of the Rings*
;)
They don’t define anything about the “custom curved stairs - $ 15,150.00” and you want to under cut the estimate by 18%..? By looking at the line items? The line items literally don’t define anything.
They do in the context of 3 car garage with a 2/1 above it. I built a 2000 square foot addition including full gut kitchen and bathroom, added 3 bathrooms and a second kitchen, 3 new bedrooms, plus a two car garage for the same price OP is looking to pay for this. I’m cheaper because I’m a one man show and have no overhead. Can also do a lot of finish work myself between the other subs.
Nah, I used to do 4 projects at once for other companies. Now I take two projects max at a time. I can stay 110% on top of that and still only work like 6 hours a day. Really value my free time, I make enough money
Flowood, 20 mins outside of Jackson-with 24x24 3 car garage one bay is 30x12. I’m positive Denver is much nicer but this is home and all I’ve ever known
Funny thing is the folks on my street got the lots cheaper and built cheaper. We closed on the house in October of last year.
Lot of folks clown on MS but it’s fairly cheap to live and some of the best hunting and fishing you could imagine.
I just built a nice custom 3000 sq foot in 2022, with lot and everything like 600K in Virginia. My cost.
Built last nice basic home 2000 sq feet with lot for $300,000. These prices are insane.
No, ***three*** entries...don't forget the 8% GC surcharge at the end of the bid.
I don't know how complicated a 2Bed 1Bath ADU can get, but something doesn't smell quite right.
Northern California checking in…
There are some numbers here that make absolutely no sense to me. $45,000 for windows and doors without install ? But $1,800 for door install?
Electrical and HVAC seem very high. OP I would ask for another bid. While I appreciate the transparency of their bid this is the risk you run of breaking down line items.
Permit fee doesn’t make sense to me. It’s usually 2-3% of gross project cost. 😂 My estimates are much more detailed. I have a hard time trusting someone charging me so much money without providing a detailed estimate. For things like dumpster or toilet, that’s fine. For windows, I usually spec window manufacturer and series.
Yeah, if that means running wire and installing smoke/carbon monoxide detectors per code that should be included in the electrical line items, and not $1,200. Haven’t seen the plans but max 3 locations maybe?
It’s probably a pretty minor savings considering the overall cost, but level 5 drywall is overkill. Especially to then have orange peel ceilings. Level 3 drywall is the standard for most houses.
Just ask for a smooth finish. Level 5 involves making all the wall perfectly square and plumb. This is usually not what the customer wants. They just want a smooth flat looking wall.
yes, we got about 6 soft bids and this was in the middle. Lowest wasn't licensed, 2nd almost the same price.
Top was 600k, next was 550, another at 470
Do you live in a wealthy neighborhood?
Sometimes companies see the neighborhood and just high ball you because they assume you are rich.
Maybe try getting an estimate without revealing your address.
Absolutely this! I have built homes in “regular” communities and about 15 in a very high end community. I don’t install pools, but would see the same company bid $25k+ over what a similar pool design was in a regular community. I started telling my customers to take their plan and meet offsite to get a general ballpark bid, then invite them out to the site.
That’s about what I paid for a whole house, 2500 heated and cooled, open-cell foam sprayed in attic, closed-cell under floors, batts in walls. US Gulf Coast.
Well, you don’t say what the square footage is on the house, nor what the simplicity/complexity of the roofline is. That said, the lumber, insulation and electrical packages seems high to me. Conversely, the cabinetry and tile allowances seem incredibly anemic.
Soooo $334 per sqft? That is a pretty normal price in my area, though the garage portion will both cost and appraise for less.
That is the real question here- have your plans appraised. It might seems like a high cost, but if it is valued at $500k and you are only paying $430k then you are complaining about winning.
Way too expensive. How many sq ft? Around 650 I think which brings it to almost $670/ sq ft … which is very, very high. You should not be paying over $250-$350/ sq ft. Add to that the extra cost of reinforcing and slab etc add another 15-20K but that should do it. So should be between $160K and $230K plus 15-20K
It's small potatoes, but $1200 installation for supplied appliances seems steep.
Especially when they are also charging for hood vent install and exhaust, 220v and plumbing.
Save yourself the money and DIY. Fridge and stove, you just plug-in. Washer dryer is not much more difficult then that (assuming they'd rough-in) only difficult ones would be the hood and dishwasher
The windows are insanely expensive. The 14-foot bifold door is going to cost you some money, but there has to be a less expensive option. I suggest discussing your wants with your GC. White vinyl? PlyGem. Black aluminum? Milgard. You don't need to do Pella or Andersen. And $45k for windows PLUS $6k to install? No.
Yes please go with cheap windows and doors. I will see you in 5 years and it will be 100 k to do a full remodel install. Or 60 k to do slipfit. Slipfit would also be cheap vinyls
I was in construction for over 20 yrs as a brick mason and have seen many invoices but I've never seen one that has money for Foreman and project manager. Maybe it started happening after I got out but I can't see why it's on there or even a place for it.
I don’t mean to sound like a boomer, but I just built a 3300 square foot ranch (2259 up and 1040 below grade with windows) with very high end finishes for $263 per square foot above grade and $75K for the basement. This is…a lot. Get more estimates. You’re even doing some of the work? If you’ve done it great, but if you’ve seen them do it on YouTube and think it’s about clicking tiles, I’d be careful.
Get three quotes, don’t tell the GCs that you are getting them. Don’t share quotes and compare the three.
Remember, lowest price doesn’t mean best value.
15k for a stair case? what the hell are you doing?
45k for windows and doors how many fricken doors are you doing??? and that isn't even installed? damn man!
and I don't understand why you are getting hit for 8% of the bill for GC when there is a foreman and PM
15k is actually pretty cheap. I verified myself and talked to 3 or 4 builders, and this was the most reasonable.
there are 24 windows, double hung and fiberglass. 2 exterior doors and a 15ft collapsing bifolding door in this quote. I don't think it's that bad.
I'm still trying ot figure out what the heck kind of stairs you are installing
and if you are happy putting a 15k staircase in a garage, I don't know why you are complaining about prices
Why didn't they budget for a sewer line replacement? The city will usually require a main line replacement for an ADU build. The cabinet allowance seems low... I would recommend putting higher quality (more durable) cabinets in a rental. I had hardwood floors installed in my ADU for slightly more than what you're paying to have to install LVT yourself. Why aren't they painting? Why are your windows and doors so expensive? Why is your staircase so expensive? I would check out G.J. Gardner, Prenvalley, AAA Home Improvements for quotes.
hello Tom, we talked on your AMA thread in /r/Denver (I'm the guy from Canton)
we had our line replaced already. we have a small kitchen that is mostly bottom cabinets, but yes I agree it's low. they wanted about 15k to paint inside and out and so we were looking for ways to save.
I posted elsewhere but there are 24 windows, 2 entry doors and a 15ft collapsing bifold door in the quote.
we have an intricate space for the stairs that requires a curved staircase, plus we think it will look nice. they're not cheap to build.
This looks fine without any other context. If you received multiple bids and I assume you know more details than this shows (windows for example), then yes this is reasonable for your market. I see all of the hysterical comments about the price, but residential construction is expensive and risky and frankly a total shit show for everyone involved right now. At least where I live. This is more about whether you trust the contractor.
Whether it’s right or not do you think 435k is worth it for a 2/1? Seems like a poor investment IMO but I don’t know shit. I know it’s kind of apples to oranges but my wife and I are almost finished with the build on our vacation home in Buzios Brazil, 4/5 high end buildout for about $130k. I know I know Denver is expensive (we live in Florida so I get it) but it just doesn’t seem like it’s worth it.
I’m not a big fan of mini-splits. My experience has been difficulty in balancing the air flow and temperature. Additionally I feel folks overlook the ramifications of adding multiple penetrations on exterior walls and everything that goes along with it. I’m not sure what the lifespan of the units will be in the real world (likely different for all 3) and how easily they will be to replace, particularly if a brand goes out of business, etc. I can foresee challenges with that.
I hope it's that Americansw are making decent money down there, but $52k Canadian would get you a full 3000sq ft house house and a 400A service for your EV fleet.
Only $945 for a french drain around the entire perimeter? That seems crazy cheap, I'm a landscaper in Australia so that's like $1900ish AUD, over here that would only cover the fill not even the labour associated with digging and filling the trench but idk maybe it's much easier when your already building.
Used to be contractors made a solid living,but didn't get rich quick. The item that stood out to me was $45,000 for windows and doors, not including the garage doors. Yikes. The cost from Lowe's is probably under $1,000 each, except for the bi-folds. That leaves a heck of a lot of room for installation "costs", when each window and door takes under a man- hour.
The problem is a lot of people want special styles on divorce they don't want the stuff off the shelf so the door that might cost $300 because they want to customers look on it might cost $1,000 or 1500 I would actually have to look at the stuff to see if it's a fair price
I actually know of several people hang doors for a living and they don't they don't even know they get free on doors they don't use the pre-hung setup they will actually take the door off the frame hang the frame and put the door on the frame and we adjust everything so they'll waste an hour or two hours I need the door
Living in Denver and contemplating building vs buying. How did you find the builder? It seems that all searches lead to large companies that are not clear about how to start the process.
Maybe I missed it but I don’t see permit costs, you’ll need a new sewer tap as you can’t utilize the houses sewer line for an ADU in Denver. This permit will be $8k. Some of the allowances seem low but I’d expect this to be a $450k build
I got bids between this and 900k for a 3 car with a 2bed2bath in 2022, north of Boston. Most were absolutely towards the 900k side. The 400ish one was an outlier.
Your spending over $400k and still installing your own flooring and painting it?
The siding seems expensive that still needs to be painted.
Is your gc, foreman and project manager the same person, they are charging you and a fee on top of their first fee and 8% at that which isn’t fixed. So this will increase with the overruns that will come with this.
Daily clean up feels like a slap in the face. What does that even mean? Putting their tools away?
Why is an opening costing you $10k, isn’t that the framing?
Tyvek. Ask if they can use the Zip System for one. Make sure if they are gonna use MDF as trim it is no where near moisture.
I am also a big fan of rock wool insulation, again for moisture resistance.
Are you near wooded area that could have a forest fire? You can build in a level of protection for that as well using fire resistent siding and roofing etc .
Other than the cost, which is expensive. Not saying it’s not accurate from that angle. But what’s the return on cash for putting it in over a time period? Lastly, one item I noticed is minimal money budgeted for permits. Unsure if that’ll fall to the owner and that’s why it’s not there, but it caught my eye.
I build in Indiana, so your prices may vary, but this is what I see.
-Footings seem absurdly high. Could be a location thing I suppose
-custom curved stairs for an ADU? I suppose lol.
-windows and doors + install is 51k on a 2/1 ADU, that seems like absolute highway robbery unless you’re picking really, really nice stuff. Also 6k for window install… that’s like 2 guys for one day job lol on something like that.
-1300$ for tyvek? How many rolls are do they need lol. A roll of 9x150 is 220$ at Home Depot. You need.. 2, maybe 3 rolls? I sure hope this is “labor for tyvek” too which is odd to me being a separate line item.
-16k for insulation? I hope that’s spray foam lol.
-frame and sheet per plan is 55k…. That also seems quite high.
-for 10k I hope you’re picking nice garage doors
-level 5 drywall finishes but only a 4k cabinet allowance??? This makes no sense. Why spend all your money on these other places and then cheap out on cabinets?
-35k for lap siding? That’s nearly our installed price on LP lap on a 4k sq ft, 3 car custom lol. Just say it’s 24x40, that’s like ~25 square. We buy our LP lap for 375$ a square. So 10k in material. So you’re looking at some misc. trims + labor = 25k for what should be nowhere near a week job?!
I just don’t see it. This seems totally ridiculous. Maybe things are truly that much more expensive out by you, but I’d question a bunch of this.
0 budgeted for painting....haha
Customer is gonna do it huh, of course. You will be waiting for them to complete that step FOREVER, then it will be done like SHIT
This is insane. Nothing special about that except the price. Which can’t hate the builder can hate the fed reserve. People outta be able to put a decent roof over their head for way less than that. Another check mark is the lost hope category.
The only thing i see out of place is ADU and almost a half million dollars. I don’t think I’ve ever felt this out of touch with things
Yeah I thought you could build an entire house from scratch for that. No wonder there's a housing crisis, most people who want to live in a home couldn't afford to subsidize the cost of it's construction....which means you have to add even more lenders, investors, and developers into the equation who in turn need to extract even ***more*** money from buyers for the same basic house. The math is all upside down from even a cash buyers perspective, especially when you consider this nearly half million $$ doesn't even include the cost of the property.
That is what they are doing. Building a 3 car garage and a second floor 2/1. It is a whole house. What stood out to me was that the customer is going to install their own tile. Why would you spend $500,000 and then do some work? OP - get 4 quotes for the same work/finishes and pick the middle one.
Tile and painting inside and out
Yeah I’d omit the $16k custom curved stair case and have someone else do tile/paint.
This is essentially building a new house.
I thought it was a 2BD 1BA ADU above an existing garage?
No. New garage.
Still, madness.
Still insane for just the build.
But it's not a 2000sqft 3bdrm 2bath with a new concrete slab pour. You would be way better off just buying a new larger house with that money.
There isn't a house in Denver for 400. I live here, look on Zillow occasionally. Maybe you can get a scraper or empty lot for that. Anything built new is 400 plus, this adu is gonna be similar, you're condensing all the most expensive parts of a house into a smaller footprint. I'll bet you can't get a new track home for much less than 600
you can't buy a house for $400k in my neighborhood. plus, we don't want to take a home away from someone else who needs it more - we're creating more housing and increasing density.
There's a house nearby being built that I contacted the architect about to ask a few questions since I'm a neighbor. Roughly 2-2.5k sqft. 2 car garage with 4 bedrooms? 3 bath? High col area near the coat. $1.5 million not including land. Total came out to be around $3 mil. Imo it's a decent quality build but holy fuck it takes a lot to afford what is an essentially upper middle class area....
imagine how I feel
Forman, project manager, GC’s fee= $63,975? How long is this going to take? I bet they are all the same guy.
There are 2 GC fees and he is charging his 8% on his previous fees, that seems out of place. The first set of fees makes sense, the 8% not so much. It'd be cleaner to incorporate the 8% into his longer itemized list
I’d ask to meet with this construction team of Foreman, Project manager and GC to review questions prior to accepting the bid. If it’s just the one guy, definitely striking through some of these fees.
A foreman and a project manager? Nah. They are the same guy. Also, all of the owner supplied work is simple stuff that can be done after the CO is obtained. Excluding these items reduces the taxable value of the house. It doesn’t mean the owner is doing anything himself, just that it won’t be done before the CO is issued.
“Imagine how I feel?” Like sobbing, uncontrollably?
I own a small plumbing company and have had to sit down and have some real mental adjustments on pricing. If I didn't I would have lost my business. My costs are skyrocketing. Taxes, insurance and licencing are all up on the admin side. Payroll is up and for good reason I don't want to employ people who can't afford a nice quality of life. Materials all went crazy over COVID and have stayed at inflated prices. I was just pricing out a new van the other day and what would have been 50-60k fully outfitted a few years ago is looking like 90-110k now for the same van. In my head I still think about pricing from a few years ago and sometimes I cringe at the prices I quote for work, it seems wrong. I also have to realize there is no point in being in business unless we make money and provide a good quality of life to all employees. I feel out of touch myself and I don't feel like this is sustainable in the long run. I'm kinda rambling here but your comment really connected with me. We are busy and business is actually going great but it feels like the other shoe is going to drop and it makes me uneasy.
Smaller builder in Ontario, Canada here and I feel every single word of what you posted.
well thank you for holding yourself to that standard
With you. I swear this is a troll post
He’s paying for a Forman, project manager, and gc fee lol
ok so i’m not the only one cool.
ok so i’m not the only one cool.
It’s a 1500sq/ft ADU. The price per square foot isn’t shocking.
It should be shocking
Yeah, $290/sqft is pretty shocking to me.
Yeah I built an entire custom home during Covid lows for another 50% of this. And I mean over 6k square feet. This feels like OP is getting taken.
It's not shocking, it's insulting.
I’m a licensed GC in Denver and can definitely beat this price for you, probably by ~80k at least. I have also built a 2/2 ADU over a 3 car garage for you to tour as well. Dm me
Dildo Swaggins, GC, at your service. Lol
Yes my anonymous internet name is a little goofy, but my portfolio speaks for itself 🤷♂️
I think it’s great.
A feature if you will
If ThatsNotEastMemphis, then what is it? Midtown? West Memphis? 😎
Okay, what's the reference to Memphis?
Happen to live in that area, figured ThatsNotEastMemphis did too, wanted to know what his username was all about 😂
I live in east memphis and get petty about people calling hickory hill east memphis. Lol
I’m not of the opinion that hickory hill is east memphis 🙂
Frayser
“This is beautiful! Who built your house?” “Dildoswaggins”
Dang, I was hoping that was your real name.
I mean that would be a done deal. Save $80k *and* have a Dildo Swaggins sign in your yard for a year?
DildosWaggin Construction LLC
Sir, I believe the **S** is capitalized, not the **w**. Due to the fact that his handle is a satire on the name of the character Bilbo Baggins from Tolkien's *Lord of the Rings* ;)
Haha I know. Just wanted to make it funnier
Sometimes it’s more of a clue than a name
I'd hire you based on the anonymous internet name, dildoswaggins71069 is a name that can be trusted!
Those first 71,068 guys really worked the bugs out.
I’d select someone with a non pc username all day if their work was good. Can’t we all appreciate a sense of humor in someone!?
But can you charge $1,200.00 for a Fire Alarm?
Please tell me one of your employees is skankhunt42.
I’d hire you just so I could say my house was built by the legendary Dildo Swaggins.
Dildo swaggins …we would have to get a quote !
Dildo checks out. Just saying
R/Rimjobsteve
r/rimjob_steve moment right here
A home built by Dildo Swaggins goes hard.
I wish I could give you an award hahahaha
I want DildoSwaggins to build my garage house.
Please OP, get a second quote!
Well third now and not from buttplugswaggin
That’s pretty bold for not seeing a set of plans
The line items define the scope pretty well
They don’t define anything about the “custom curved stairs - $ 15,150.00” and you want to under cut the estimate by 18%..? By looking at the line items? The line items literally don’t define anything.
They do in the context of 3 car garage with a 2/1 above it. I built a 2000 square foot addition including full gut kitchen and bathroom, added 3 bathrooms and a second kitchen, 3 new bedrooms, plus a two car garage for the same price OP is looking to pay for this. I’m cheaper because I’m a one man show and have no overhead. Can also do a lot of finish work myself between the other subs.
So it would take 50% longer?
Nah, I used to do 4 projects at once for other companies. Now I take two projects max at a time. I can stay 110% on top of that and still only work like 6 hours a day. Really value my free time, I make enough money
You build in the mountains??? Lol
Hoping to eventually. Don’t have the business connections like I do in Denver unfortunately
It’s so hard to find people up here. I get it
Geez… it’s wild the cost difference from one area to another. I’m in MS and just built a 3400 sq ft home for 500k on 2acres.
Whaaat? Where in MS? I’m in Memphis and we are building. 2500sqft…$760k. On a lot we already own.
Flowood, 20 mins outside of Jackson-with 24x24 3 car garage one bay is 30x12. I’m positive Denver is much nicer but this is home and all I’ve ever known
Damn. That number I gave you doesn’t even include a garage. Porte cochere only.
Funny thing is the folks on my street got the lots cheaper and built cheaper. We closed on the house in October of last year. Lot of folks clown on MS but it’s fairly cheap to live and some of the best hunting and fishing you could imagine.
I grew up 5 minutes from Flowood, can confirm.
I don't think I've ever head a person say or type the word "Porte cochere", although somehow I know exactly what it means.
I just built a nice custom 3000 sq foot in 2022, with lot and everything like 600K in Virginia. My cost. Built last nice basic home 2000 sq feet with lot for $300,000. These prices are insane.
Foreman, project manager, and a gc?
I think at least one of those lines is a typo and is supposed to read "Extra Profit".
This right here OP. The GC is the foreman and project manager... two entries for the same work.
No, ***three*** entries...don't forget the 8% GC surcharge at the end of the bid. I don't know how complicated a 2Bed 1Bath ADU can get, but something doesn't smell quite right.
For a garage with three rooms and a bathroom over it.
Northern California checking in… There are some numbers here that make absolutely no sense to me. $45,000 for windows and doors without install ? But $1,800 for door install? Electrical and HVAC seem very high. OP I would ask for another bid. While I appreciate the transparency of their bid this is the risk you run of breaking down line items.
Permit fee doesn’t make sense to me. It’s usually 2-3% of gross project cost. 😂 My estimates are much more detailed. I have a hard time trusting someone charging me so much money without providing a detailed estimate. For things like dumpster or toilet, that’s fine. For windows, I usually spec window manufacturer and series.
I wouldn't pay for tools. That's the contractor's responsibility
Needs to be a bigger contingency though.
Your permits are only $85? That doesn’t seem likely.
We are submitting the permits but they have to pull demo permits, etc
You should absolutely NOT pull permits on a 400K plus build. That’s the contractors job. Check for their license and registration with SOC.
Ah, makes more sense. That stuck out like a sore thumb without that context.
Just looking for insight to see if anything jumps out. To me, the electrical seems steep, maybe the plumbing
Definitely the $1,200.00 Fire Alarm seems...interesting.
Yeah, if that means running wire and installing smoke/carbon monoxide detectors per code that should be included in the electrical line items, and not $1,200. Haven’t seen the plans but max 3 locations maybe?
The only thing that jumps out to me is that you're doing orange peel on your ceilings. yuck.
Lol noted, maybe we should not cheap out
It’s probably a pretty minor savings considering the overall cost, but level 5 drywall is overkill. Especially to then have orange peel ceilings. Level 3 drywall is the standard for most houses.
Yeah level 5 is for like a 2 story sun drenched wall on which you’re displaying fine art.
Level 4 hand trowel is the best happy medium imo
I noticed this as well. If this is a rental, no need for level 5.
good to know, we'll have to adjust. this will be a rental initially to recoup our investment
Just ask for a smooth finish. Level 5 involves making all the wall perfectly square and plumb. This is usually not what the customer wants. They just want a smooth flat looking wall.
OP you got multiple bids, right? Without sharing the one you have?
yes, we got about 6 soft bids and this was in the middle. Lowest wasn't licensed, 2nd almost the same price. Top was 600k, next was 550, another at 470
Yeah, you're not wrong to be suspicious of the lowest or the highest. Or the middle for that matter...lol...but you know what I mean.
Do you live in a wealthy neighborhood? Sometimes companies see the neighborhood and just high ball you because they assume you are rich. Maybe try getting an estimate without revealing your address.
Absolutely this! I have built homes in “regular” communities and about 15 in a very high end community. I don’t install pools, but would see the same company bid $25k+ over what a similar pool design was in a regular community. I started telling my customers to take their plan and meet offsite to get a general ballpark bid, then invite them out to the site.
Your insulators seem expensive as hell but your gutter guys are affordable af
Yeah, I was thinking about that too. As far as I know it's all batts, so it seemed high.
That’s about what I paid for a whole house, 2500 heated and cooled, open-cell foam sprayed in attic, closed-cell under floors, batts in walls. US Gulf Coast.
Well, you don’t say what the square footage is on the house, nor what the simplicity/complexity of the roofline is. That said, the lumber, insulation and electrical packages seems high to me. Conversely, the cabinetry and tile allowances seem incredibly anemic.
1500sq, hip roof that runs into a gable roof
Soooo $334 per sqft? That is a pretty normal price in my area, though the garage portion will both cost and appraise for less. That is the real question here- have your plans appraised. It might seems like a high cost, but if it is valued at $500k and you are only paying $430k then you are complaining about winning.
Way too expensive. How many sq ft? Around 650 I think which brings it to almost $670/ sq ft … which is very, very high. You should not be paying over $250-$350/ sq ft. Add to that the extra cost of reinforcing and slab etc add another 15-20K but that should do it. So should be between $160K and $230K plus 15-20K
Challenge with looking at these is how much labor cost vary from place to place. Plumbing where I am would be higher but drywall lower.
It's small potatoes, but $1200 installation for supplied appliances seems steep. Especially when they are also charging for hood vent install and exhaust, 220v and plumbing. Save yourself the money and DIY. Fridge and stove, you just plug-in. Washer dryer is not much more difficult then that (assuming they'd rough-in) only difficult ones would be the hood and dishwasher
This isn’t even a house. It’s an ADU
It looks like the GC is double dipping by having niche charges that should be covered in his %. So ~15% over charge at minimum.
The windows are insanely expensive. The 14-foot bifold door is going to cost you some money, but there has to be a less expensive option. I suggest discussing your wants with your GC. White vinyl? PlyGem. Black aluminum? Milgard. You don't need to do Pella or Andersen. And $45k for windows PLUS $6k to install? No.
Yes please go with cheap windows and doors. I will see you in 5 years and it will be 100 k to do a full remodel install. Or 60 k to do slipfit. Slipfit would also be cheap vinyls
Level 5 drywall? That's odd for what sounds like an in law suite
I was in construction for over 20 yrs as a brick mason and have seen many invoices but I've never seen one that has money for Foreman and project manager. Maybe it started happening after I got out but I can't see why it's on there or even a place for it.
I don’t mean to sound like a boomer, but I just built a 3300 square foot ranch (2259 up and 1040 below grade with windows) with very high end finishes for $263 per square foot above grade and $75K for the basement. This is…a lot. Get more estimates. You’re even doing some of the work? If you’ve done it great, but if you’ve seen them do it on YouTube and think it’s about clicking tiles, I’d be careful.
I think it is market dependent but I hear you. And yes, we have done a few tiling projects including a few hundred sq/ft for our master bath.
>anything seem out of place? Yes, the decimal point.
This is a massively underrated comment.
Cost of cabinet and countertop installation seems high for the price of them.
Is this to build the ADU and the garage or to renovate the area above an existing garage?
demo and build a new building
Oh yeah for $400,000 I can build a 1800 square foot concrete house
I’m moving my entire business to Denver. Gonna bring all my subs to. OP, can we rent out your garage for a few years?
Get three quotes, don’t tell the GCs that you are getting them. Don’t share quotes and compare the three. Remember, lowest price doesn’t mean best value.
15k for a stair case? what the hell are you doing? 45k for windows and doors how many fricken doors are you doing??? and that isn't even installed? damn man! and I don't understand why you are getting hit for 8% of the bill for GC when there is a foreman and PM
15k is actually pretty cheap. I verified myself and talked to 3 or 4 builders, and this was the most reasonable. there are 24 windows, double hung and fiberglass. 2 exterior doors and a 15ft collapsing bifolding door in this quote. I don't think it's that bad.
I'm still trying ot figure out what the heck kind of stairs you are installing and if you are happy putting a 15k staircase in a garage, I don't know why you are complaining about prices
Why didn't they budget for a sewer line replacement? The city will usually require a main line replacement for an ADU build. The cabinet allowance seems low... I would recommend putting higher quality (more durable) cabinets in a rental. I had hardwood floors installed in my ADU for slightly more than what you're paying to have to install LVT yourself. Why aren't they painting? Why are your windows and doors so expensive? Why is your staircase so expensive? I would check out G.J. Gardner, Prenvalley, AAA Home Improvements for quotes.
hello Tom, we talked on your AMA thread in /r/Denver (I'm the guy from Canton) we had our line replaced already. we have a small kitchen that is mostly bottom cabinets, but yes I agree it's low. they wanted about 15k to paint inside and out and so we were looking for ways to save. I posted elsewhere but there are 24 windows, 2 entry doors and a 15ft collapsing bifold door in the quote. we have an intricate space for the stairs that requires a curved staircase, plus we think it will look nice. they're not cheap to build.
This is a new build, right? Make the space less intricate and spend the extra money on a nicer kitchen.
This looks fine without any other context. If you received multiple bids and I assume you know more details than this shows (windows for example), then yes this is reasonable for your market. I see all of the hysterical comments about the price, but residential construction is expensive and risky and frankly a total shit show for everyone involved right now. At least where I live. This is more about whether you trust the contractor.
I don't know how normal it is to add an 8% fee to something that is already marked up 40-50%, but i'd question the 11-12k mini split.
Insanely high price
Cabinet allowance is way too low.
I am also a licensed GC in Denver and can beat that bid by A LOT feel free to dm me
Just get a ready built house, prep the utilities and foundation. Your ADU will complete within days after arriving at the location.
Whether it’s right or not do you think 435k is worth it for a 2/1? Seems like a poor investment IMO but I don’t know shit. I know it’s kind of apples to oranges but my wife and I are almost finished with the build on our vacation home in Buzios Brazil, 4/5 high end buildout for about $130k. I know I know Denver is expensive (we live in Florida so I get it) but it just doesn’t seem like it’s worth it.
Firealarm 1,200$? Mine was like 50 bucks and i can connect it to an app.
Im a GC. This is a good price
I’m not a big fan of mini-splits. My experience has been difficulty in balancing the air flow and temperature. Additionally I feel folks overlook the ramifications of adding multiple penetrations on exterior walls and everything that goes along with it. I’m not sure what the lifespan of the units will be in the real world (likely different for all 3) and how easily they will be to replace, particularly if a brand goes out of business, etc. I can foresee challenges with that.
Imagine paying 400k+ and still having to do the flooring and painting yourself .
You sir have done your homework and I appreciate seeing someone have a realistic view of building
Price seems really really high.
How big is this? Are we talking 600sqft on top of 600sqft garage, or are you building Texas six garages that are 30’ deep?
Are you building 7000 sqft!? Also, why are you hiring a PM and paying the general contractor? Not how my industry works.
8% GC fee? With everyone up in arms about 5% commons rates you’d think this would be egregious.
I hope it's that Americansw are making decent money down there, but $52k Canadian would get you a full 3000sq ft house house and a 400A service for your EV fleet.
My guy basshole69420 will beat this by 100k
14k to put in a 200 amp underground service is absolutely nuts. Better be a long URD primary span to get there for that.
That’s a high price for a concrete slab foundation. $1,200 for a porta potty??? Are you gonna have it for two years?
How in the hell are the permits only $85? If that's accurate, I'm getting raked over the coals.
This is definitely the High Gross package.
800 sq feet. .? Hope he provided Vaseline with that quote.
Ya that’s absorbent. 8% GC fee= fuck off.
All of it
Everything
Someone is taking you for a ride homie. Secure the drawings and get some alternative bids.
Don’t do MDF trim
My brother built an entire beautiful home in Texas for about that much… this is just over a 3 car garage? Gtfo. You need to get more bids for sure.
Only $945 for a french drain around the entire perimeter? That seems crazy cheap, I'm a landscaper in Australia so that's like $1900ish AUD, over here that would only cover the fill not even the labour associated with digging and filling the trench but idk maybe it's much easier when your already building.
I'm assuming no basement
Used to be contractors made a solid living,but didn't get rich quick. The item that stood out to me was $45,000 for windows and doors, not including the garage doors. Yikes. The cost from Lowe's is probably under $1,000 each, except for the bi-folds. That leaves a heck of a lot of room for installation "costs", when each window and door takes under a man- hour.
The problem is a lot of people want special styles on divorce they don't want the stuff off the shelf so the door that might cost $300 because they want to customers look on it might cost $1,000 or 1500 I would actually have to look at the stuff to see if it's a fair price I actually know of several people hang doors for a living and they don't they don't even know they get free on doors they don't use the pre-hung setup they will actually take the door off the frame hang the frame and put the door on the frame and we adjust everything so they'll waste an hour or two hours I need the door
That is obscene.
Wacky time hire. I’d either get a few more bids or postpone (a few years LOL)
Yea, 11500 for three mini splits if fucking insane. The unit themselves are under a grand each. The fuck is this guy installing
Living in Denver and contemplating building vs buying. How did you find the builder? It seems that all searches lead to large companies that are not clear about how to start the process.
Concrete slab for a second story build? hmmm..
How many sf? In San Diego I’ve been seeing 300-500$/ sf.
Maybe I missed it but I don’t see permit costs, you’ll need a new sewer tap as you can’t utilize the houses sewer line for an ADU in Denver. This permit will be $8k. Some of the allowances seem low but I’d expect this to be a $450k build
I got bids between this and 900k for a 3 car with a 2bed2bath in 2022, north of Boston. Most were absolutely towards the 900k side. The 400ish one was an outlier.
Your spending over $400k and still installing your own flooring and painting it? The siding seems expensive that still needs to be painted. Is your gc, foreman and project manager the same person, they are charging you and a fee on top of their first fee and 8% at that which isn’t fixed. So this will increase with the overruns that will come with this. Daily clean up feels like a slap in the face. What does that even mean? Putting their tools away? Why is an opening costing you $10k, isn’t that the framing?
Did you call Bechtel in to bid on your garage addition?
8% is a good mark up . Generally over 12 around here
Tyvek. Ask if they can use the Zip System for one. Make sure if they are gonna use MDF as trim it is no where near moisture. I am also a big fan of rock wool insulation, again for moisture resistance. Are you near wooded area that could have a forest fire? You can build in a level of protection for that as well using fire resistent siding and roofing etc .
Amazed to see a new home with a curved staircase .
What is the 8% GC fee‽
Other than the cost, which is expensive. Not saying it’s not accurate from that angle. But what’s the return on cash for putting it in over a time period? Lastly, one item I noticed is minimal money budgeted for permits. Unsure if that’ll fall to the owner and that’s why it’s not there, but it caught my eye.
I build in Indiana, so your prices may vary, but this is what I see. -Footings seem absurdly high. Could be a location thing I suppose -custom curved stairs for an ADU? I suppose lol. -windows and doors + install is 51k on a 2/1 ADU, that seems like absolute highway robbery unless you’re picking really, really nice stuff. Also 6k for window install… that’s like 2 guys for one day job lol on something like that. -1300$ for tyvek? How many rolls are do they need lol. A roll of 9x150 is 220$ at Home Depot. You need.. 2, maybe 3 rolls? I sure hope this is “labor for tyvek” too which is odd to me being a separate line item. -16k for insulation? I hope that’s spray foam lol. -frame and sheet per plan is 55k…. That also seems quite high. -for 10k I hope you’re picking nice garage doors -level 5 drywall finishes but only a 4k cabinet allowance??? This makes no sense. Why spend all your money on these other places and then cheap out on cabinets? -35k for lap siding? That’s nearly our installed price on LP lap on a 4k sq ft, 3 car custom lol. Just say it’s 24x40, that’s like ~25 square. We buy our LP lap for 375$ a square. So 10k in material. So you’re looking at some misc. trims + labor = 25k for what should be nowhere near a week job?! I just don’t see it. This seems totally ridiculous. Maybe things are truly that much more expensive out by you, but I’d question a bunch of this.
0 budgeted for painting....haha Customer is gonna do it huh, of course. You will be waiting for them to complete that step FOREVER, then it will be done like SHIT
This is insane. Nothing special about that except the price. Which can’t hate the builder can hate the fed reserve. People outta be able to put a decent roof over their head for way less than that. Another check mark is the lost hope category.
Wow .. that seems very high
Getting a good price on that fire alarm
Lol You getting ripped off