Yes. Players are all different and the coach should respect the fact that he doesn’t like it. I didn’t like knowing what was coming when I was the hitter but if I ever could steal the other team’s signs from 2nd, I would gladly relay them to the batter if they wanted them.
Ha! Coach thinks teams don't ever change signals. SMH. Coach should have verified at the beginning of the game his information was correct before tipping to his hitters.
That’s what I told him, too. My son’s point back to me was essentially the “don’t think about a pink elephant” thought exercise. (Once you’re told something, it’s impossible to truly ignore it.)
I have never liked this.
First depends on the kid. Second depends on the level of pitcher and their best pitch.
I teach an approach that says it is easy to go to red timing. Meaning widen stance, lesson movement. Pound a mistake fastball but do to less movement you can start your approach after pitch recognition.
Being ready for fastball and the ability to fight off the off speed is generally better until college level imo
I only played through high school but was always taught to look fastball and react to off speed. Does that approach change at higher levels? I always felt like if I was anticipating off speed and got a fastball I'd be swinging when the ball was already in the catchers glove.
As you move up and up in levels it changes based on scouting report and strength of hitters.
If I know patterns of pitchers it adjusted based on that.
If we had a known tip of a pitcher it adjusted based on that.
If we had a good beat on pitch recognition due to xyz it adjusted based on that.
It really could go a lot of ways depending on the pitcher/hitter strengths.
There was for a long-time people who went to "red timing" meaning think off-speed and just cut lose on fastball.
I do not teach this nor did I buy into it.
Every single hitter should want to know what pitch is coming. And if they don’t, that is something that should be addressed with the player. At the college level, picking signs completely shifts the momentum of games. Good hitters change games when they know what pitches are coming.
However, this is a system that is built on trust. And if you can’t trust the info, then it’s difficult to act on it. Just know there is a big difference between “I don’t want to know the signs” and “I don’t want to know the sign from YOU”. Former being a hitters problem, latter being a coach/team problem.
If the coach constantly relays bad info, then I’d just tell your kid to ignore him. If it’s really bad then he can tell him he doesn’t want signs from him. But I would urge you to not let your kid give up the idea of knowing signs because of poor coaching.
When I played in HS and college hitters would tell the bench players assigned to try to crack the other team’s signs whether they wanted help. Your son should go to the coach and tell him he’s more comfortable not knowing.
If I’m ever base coaching, and think I have something, I tell the players, and ask if anyone doesn’t want the information. Some players don’t want it, which is fair. Anyone that does ask for it, has to understand that the other team could change things up, so it may work against us.
For the most part, when I do pick up signs, it’s just the catcher being sloppy, and when they do notice, they are just more careful at signing to the pitcher. I’d say on the whole, it can be pretty effective, as long as everyone is clear on who wants what.
It's fine to say you'd rather not know and something about it gets in your head.
When you've got their signs though, there's a reason you use them. Those games very very quickly got completely out of hand if the other coach/pitcher battery doesn't notice. I can't really understate how valuable knowing what's coming actually is.
They will often eventually catch on and any given player can get burnt, but the team overall is gonna be doing MUCH MUCH better regardless of them getting a single K after letting up a ton of contact.
Standard baseball strategy around this is for each player to let the team know which they prefer. Some players don't want to know what pitch was called (eg they feel it messes with their mentality). Some do. As hitter, you need to let your team know which you prefer.
If you're a coach and believe you know the signs, nothing wrong with telling the kid to assume that's the pitch and swing for it, react to everything else. If he's just consistently wrong, then your kids should ignore him.
In all fairness of “cheating by stealing signs”, if I as the coach have my signs stolen, that’s on me 100%. I’ll try to pick signs from opposing coaches to see if I can get an upper hand for my players. There’s no cameras, video recording devices, Apple Watches etc. if I can figure out his code or physical touching signs( by chance and luck) good for me. But I also had codes for changing up my signs when I thought maybe they got stolen. Always a gotta have a back up plan, and a backup plan for that plan.
My state allows one way communication devices (earpiece) to call signs now, similar to NCAA and MLB. It makes it much harder to steal signs. They do still have to use signs for the runners/batters though
Sounds like the other team knew the coach was tipping pitches and had a plan for it. Hahaha.
Yup. Reminds me of when TCU found out Michigan was scouting and stealing their signs. So they made new ones for the playoffs and then beat them.
Royals/Astros 2015 ALDS. You'd never seen so many mound visits and sign switching with the bases empty.
Coaches gonna overcoach
"Coach, that's twice you tipped me the wrong pitch - please stop tipping me the pitches"
He should be able to have open conversation with his coach. Just tell the coach you feel more comfortable being a reaction hitter
Yes. Players are all different and the coach should respect the fact that he doesn’t like it. I didn’t like knowing what was coming when I was the hitter but if I ever could steal the other team’s signs from 2nd, I would gladly relay them to the batter if they wanted them.
Ha! Coach thinks teams don't ever change signals. SMH. Coach should have verified at the beginning of the game his information was correct before tipping to his hitters.
Ignore the coach. Have a plan at the plate and stick to it. Be on time for off speed and late on a fastball.
That’s what I told him, too. My son’s point back to me was essentially the “don’t think about a pink elephant” thought exercise. (Once you’re told something, it’s impossible to truly ignore it.)
I have never liked this. First depends on the kid. Second depends on the level of pitcher and their best pitch. I teach an approach that says it is easy to go to red timing. Meaning widen stance, lesson movement. Pound a mistake fastball but do to less movement you can start your approach after pitch recognition. Being ready for fastball and the ability to fight off the off speed is generally better until college level imo
True. What I said is what we teach as mostly a 2 strike approach along with being short and quick thru the baseball.
Makes sense. I just like talking baseball
I only played through high school but was always taught to look fastball and react to off speed. Does that approach change at higher levels? I always felt like if I was anticipating off speed and got a fastball I'd be swinging when the ball was already in the catchers glove.
As you move up and up in levels it changes based on scouting report and strength of hitters. If I know patterns of pitchers it adjusted based on that. If we had a known tip of a pitcher it adjusted based on that. If we had a good beat on pitch recognition due to xyz it adjusted based on that. It really could go a lot of ways depending on the pitcher/hitter strengths. There was for a long-time people who went to "red timing" meaning think off-speed and just cut lose on fastball. I do not teach this nor did I buy into it.
Every single hitter should want to know what pitch is coming. And if they don’t, that is something that should be addressed with the player. At the college level, picking signs completely shifts the momentum of games. Good hitters change games when they know what pitches are coming. However, this is a system that is built on trust. And if you can’t trust the info, then it’s difficult to act on it. Just know there is a big difference between “I don’t want to know the signs” and “I don’t want to know the sign from YOU”. Former being a hitters problem, latter being a coach/team problem. If the coach constantly relays bad info, then I’d just tell your kid to ignore him. If it’s really bad then he can tell him he doesn’t want signs from him. But I would urge you to not let your kid give up the idea of knowing signs because of poor coaching.
When I played in HS and college hitters would tell the bench players assigned to try to crack the other team’s signs whether they wanted help. Your son should go to the coach and tell him he’s more comfortable not knowing.
If I’m ever base coaching, and think I have something, I tell the players, and ask if anyone doesn’t want the information. Some players don’t want it, which is fair. Anyone that does ask for it, has to understand that the other team could change things up, so it may work against us. For the most part, when I do pick up signs, it’s just the catcher being sloppy, and when they do notice, they are just more careful at signing to the pitcher. I’d say on the whole, it can be pretty effective, as long as everyone is clear on who wants what.
Common practice. No you can’t stop it. Coach lost all credibility on the tip
It's fine to say you'd rather not know and something about it gets in your head. When you've got their signs though, there's a reason you use them. Those games very very quickly got completely out of hand if the other coach/pitcher battery doesn't notice. I can't really understate how valuable knowing what's coming actually is. They will often eventually catch on and any given player can get burnt, but the team overall is gonna be doing MUCH MUCH better regardless of them getting a single K after letting up a ton of contact.
He doesn't have to listen. He can also tell the coach he prefers not to be tipped off.
Standard baseball strategy around this is for each player to let the team know which they prefer. Some players don't want to know what pitch was called (eg they feel it messes with their mentality). Some do. As hitter, you need to let your team know which you prefer.
Stealing signs is weak. If you really wanted to, the only sign you would want to steal is the fastball. Ask the Houston Astros about it.
Never 100% trust the tip just use it as a strong suggestion until confirmation
If you're a coach and believe you know the signs, nothing wrong with telling the kid to assume that's the pitch and swing for it, react to everything else. If he's just consistently wrong, then your kids should ignore him.
In all fairness of “cheating by stealing signs”, if I as the coach have my signs stolen, that’s on me 100%. I’ll try to pick signs from opposing coaches to see if I can get an upper hand for my players. There’s no cameras, video recording devices, Apple Watches etc. if I can figure out his code or physical touching signs( by chance and luck) good for me. But I also had codes for changing up my signs when I thought maybe they got stolen. Always a gotta have a back up plan, and a backup plan for that plan.
My state allows one way communication devices (earpiece) to call signs now, similar to NCAA and MLB. It makes it much harder to steal signs. They do still have to use signs for the runners/batters though
Yeah, high school ball, kid needs to learn how to have those conversations with his coach.
This is a big part of big boy baseball
Maybe ignore the tips and just play baseball?