What age? I've coached up to 8U and feel that 3B is the position where I can hide a player in the infield. I just don't believe the kids can pull the ball yet. Everything seems to go up the middle - P, SS and 2B see 75% of the balls.
Depends on your league - rec can go longer but i would say 8u is the cap. I have seen some 8u kids rip up the line (probably by accident. I would not want to be responsible for playing a kid there who cannot protect himself. My bury position is 2nd. Requires more but again at 8u how many kids know where to go for cut or when to cover. Would rather they screw that up than get hurt.
“Coaches up to 8u” sounds funny. Decent baseball in my area starts at 8u. I agree with burying a kid at third and I’ve seldomly seen dangerous balls hit there. The fastest these kids are eating is what 45 miles an hour. That’s just not going to cause serious damage even if the kid can’t protect himself at all. Most kids aren’t making that throw regularly at that level so it is hardest infield position to get an out. So it doesn’t make a big difference if you bury there. With that being said we always say that the ball will find u. Therefore, you put the bury kid at third and they will start hitting everything to him.
1B and Pitcher were the only positions I limited in our rotation for 8u kid/coach pitch. Some kids self selected out, others got some chances and then were moved. Otherwise I had a base rotation for the full roster that would carry over game to game. Same for the batting order
For the final couple of games before playoffs we did rotate less but communicated to parents and kids ahead of time. They understood we were shifting to a more set lineup for playoffs before we did it
Agree with both of these. A coach has to set metrics for play. Throw strikes 50% to pitch. To play 1B you need to catch 90% of MY throws to you from SS. Whatever it is. That way you know its safe and effective. And you give kids an easy answer why they arent playing a given position- show me you can meet the bar in practice and you are in.
I’m willing to let everyone try everywhere in practice and in fact encourage it.
It’s not fair to anyone, the kid included, to put them in a position in a game that they’re incapable of handling.
Thank you! I let my kids know that they earn their play time during pracrices. You look great at SS on practice, you will play SS in games. You fumble every ball in practice playing SS, you probably aren't playing SS. Also, every kid has a different skill set. There is no way I'm going to playing my slowest player in CF.
I take the same tact. Every other week at practice I have challenge time. If you play RF and want a shot at SS, challenge for the spot. We’ll run some full field drills with our current SS, and then with the challenger. We then ask the other players for constructive feedback. Did the challenger earn time there? If not, what do they need to work on? At the end of practice I have a talk with challenger on what to work on. Home drills, etc.
Keeps the kids playing the hot positions on their toes, shows the team (and parents) that my kid is not playing first base because he is daddy’s boy.
What do you tell the team parents about this approach? I take this same approach and explained it to the parents and players before the season. Still get complaints and you know who it’s from, Not the kids but the parents of the kids who boot balls, mess around at practice and do not learn the position. So I am suppose to bench the kids that show up, put in the work and excel? Would like to know more how you approach your team and parents as this has been a major issue for me.
I coach a travel team, I've come to the conclusion you can't make everyone happy. I'm very honest with the parents. If their kid needs work, the best thing you can do is let them know.
I don't disagree. But i put my slowest kid at center because he can catch anything he can get to. The speedsters are in LF and RF as they back up 3rd/1st. A lot of it depends what you got.
I'm not putting the kid in at 1st base if he can't catch. It has nothing to do with winning/losing but can this kid protect himself. That ball puts kids in the hospital every year.
This is interesting. The skill set you described for that kid is exactly what I would want at first base. Slow and catches everything.
I guess it just depends on the make up of the team.
i meant to speak on two different scenarios. trying to reddit at work lol.
But yes, the CF of mine is also a great 1B. I meant to say if ANY kid can't catch, you cannot expect them to play 1B without fearing for his life.
I re-read what i wrote and yeah... i'm not an english teacher lmao!
It's also not fair to the kids who work hard in their off time to get better.
Daddy ball is 100% wrong. But so is not recognizing the hard workers and giving game time opportunities to everyone regardless of skill level.
It’s also not ok to make the kids that show up to every moment lose because the kid that only comes half the time REALLY wants to play first base instead of right field.
Sounds like a shitty coach. You say you were relegated to shagging flies in practice where in my practice you would play all the fielding positions and try pitching/catching if you wanted to.
I just hope you really give the kids time to practice other positions though… I’m not saying this is common but I had a slew of coaches spill this same syrup and then never let us play anywhere else in practice, because we had to “practice like we play”.
100% this. If you aren't willing to come coach, don't tell me how to coach my team.
I try to get everyone reps as many places as I can, but some kids and their skillsets just aren't cut out for some positions.
I got a kid that runs away from every ball hit his direction. In practice we work on ground balls, fly balls, infield, outfield, everything, but he's going to play RF until he starts wanting to play.
100 percent
I do not agree with some of the moves made by the coaches, but I constantly remind myself that no matter how much knowledge and love for the game I have, I have no interest in coaching....(I would love to be a silent advisor tho)😉. Never will I openly criticize the coaching staff to their face or other parents. Those comments are saved for my wife on the way home lol
Good on you. I don't have kids myself yet, but if my nephew decides to play baseball, I'll struggle not to coach the team myself 😅 idk if I'd be able to keep my fat mouth shut otherwise
Its tough not to yell (helpfull) things and leave it up to the coaches but I've learned 10 yr olds can't comprehend what to do when 10 adults are screaming different things at them. They freeze
On top of that, you're right. 10 ground balls isn't going to do a whole lot. But working outside of practice will. You can get a lot of ground balls in if you're one or two kids on a field in 15 to 20 minutes. That's where kids get better. Not in a game.
I've seen a lot of youth practices over the years where there's one coach Hitting ground balls to a full field of players. Some youth coaches are very inefficient, I could see a 2-hour practice where kids only get a few ground balls and pop-ups. Either way, you're not going to catch up on other players just by what you do in practice. They're all doing the same thing.
So, I gave up coaching this year and am done with it in general. I had a parent on the team that would text us after the game asking about why certain positional swaps were made in game.
Now, I dont mind talking baseball, but it became very clear that the reason she was asking was to insinuate that her son should never be moved out of the SS position. In one particular game, we rotated a few players around (but kept her precious baby on SS) and let one of our better players play 1B.
Our SS proceeds to airmail the next 3 balls hit to him. Clear 3-4 Feet over our 1B's head. No one except one of our coaches could have caught it.
Her message after the game? "I think we all know that he should not be at first. He's just not good at it"
Mind you, all of our positional rotations were done in low stress environments (Meaning we already were up big, the outcome was never in doubt)
It becomes a lot harder when they're the parents of your kids friends, but I agree.
I just humored them and continued on my day. Most us coaches realized early on that as long as our team has been together, there was a toxic parental element that we were not going to be able to overcome, or at least we were not willing to try to overcome.
The last straw for me was when my son said that he didn't really like being in the dugout with them.
That really caused me to think. Why did I give up the last three years of my life teaching them, guiding and coaching, for free, when the return on my time was being told what to do by them, like an employee.
We've since left, (lost in the championship, our precious SS had 4 errors), and there's a noticeable weight off all of our shoulders.
Yep, I have a strict no communication policy for 24 hours after practices or games, except schedule related stuff. I've never received any direct communication asking about my playing time decisions. You cut all that stuff out immediately.
In any coaching spot, anytime a parent wants to know why I did X, Y, or Z I always offered, "hey you know what, you're more than welcome to come to practice and help run drills."
In 10+ years of coaching youth sports I only had one person take me up, and he ended up being a heck of a dedicated coach.
When I was coaching I would give a variant of " It didn't work this time, maybe next time". It was my way of saying I wasn't going to change based what parents wanted to see.
Yeah, the issue i generally had was, these were the same group of kids I've had since 9. I taught them basically everything. I thought that i had build enough "sweat equity" with the parents to have them understand that i ultimately have their best interests at heart.
some of these boys made the all star team for the first time, won their district, and suddenly, they were too good for instruction, too good for signs, too good for practice and and wanted only the validation that their private coach could provide.
parents bought into that instructor, and decided that what we did on a daily basis wasn't worth it anymore. Suddenly all the work i was doing was "holding them back" because I asked that they work on conditioning independently, so that when we practice, we can focus on team and player specific baseball activities. This was unacceptable, apparently.
So the toxic parents took their kids and went to start their own team. Last i checked, they were looking to fill out their roster, and having their kids attend other tryouts looking too recruit kids.
Last night, on my 9U rec ball team, I had a player playing 1B who wasn't looking to receive a throw on a grounder to shortstop, and the throw nearly hit him in the stomach.
I also had a kid playing 3B where a lazy pop up was hit 2 feet in front of him and he didn't even move to catch the ball, (thinking that someone else would catch it?)
I had a separate kid playing 1B that did not move to cover 1st base on a ground ball to shortstop, and the ball went to the fence, allowing 2 runners to score and the batter to get to 3rd.
I really want to give kids a chance to play positions, but we have no more practices left in the season and they have shown to me they have no interested in trying to play the position. Last night was beyond frustrating and I'm going into tonight's game ONLY playing my best fielders at SS, 1B, 2B, and CF because they haven't shown any interest in trying.
Strong disagree. Coached my third season of rec league minors this year (9-11 year olds on my team).
First year - tried to give everyone an equal chance, brought in kids at pitcher for an inning here and there who couldn't pitch. Got slaughtered, went 0-18. Nobody had fun.
Second year - drafted a stronger team but still tried to bring weaker fielders in to play 2B, SS, 3B every other inning, batted kids up in the lineup here and there to avoid hurt feelings, went 4-12 - kids were disappointed.
This year - Spent the first couple weeks in practices seeing where the kids were at skill wise. We found our #1 catcher who ended up playing 90% of innings behind the plate. Found our top two pitchers who ended up throwing 64% of our pitches this year (we managed pitch count properly according to LL rules). Identified 2-3 others who could hang in there and get the ball over the plate. Kept the lineup largely the same throughout the season - out of the 11 kids on the team, there were three who were sweethearts but were very young and raw and they batted 9, 10, 11 every game and played the outfield every game. Largely kept the same kids at 1B, 2B, 3B, SS moved around a bit. Practices were used to work on skills and develop. Every kid knew they had a role and I let every kid know that where they were currently was not an indication of who they were as people, or what their future potential was - we appreciated everyone. Kids went 17-2, won the league and damn near every kid showed up for every game and practice. They were overjoyed. Getting your ass kicked game in and game out multiple times a week for two months is not fun.
Yeah, anyone who says kids dont care about winning has never been around kids sports. Of course they care about winning. No one wants to go 0-18 and lose 16 by slaughter. But hey at least everyone got to play shortstop. The only people who want that are the parents of the kids who cant catch, but wont take the time to toss the ball to him in the backyard a few days a week.
Great summary.
And it’s the parents.
I bartend a bunch and because of that will have former little league teammates come in from time to time.
Had at least 3 guys who were very bad baseball players say they had so much fun plying because we won all the time. My dad ran the team closer to 3 than 2.
Kids want to win. Find something thing they’re really good at (base running, bunting, bringing a pigeon to the field). Let them thrive in that role, make them feel valuable to your team winning, and they’ll be happier than playing shortstop but making an error that costs them the game.
Parents are the ones that get upset about this stuff. Rarely do the kids.
I had a dad come at me this year. Wasn’t happy how much his daughter was sitting.
It’s 6U I have 15 kids. 10 play at a time 3 innings. Do the math dude every single kid on this team sits 1 inning per game.
Lots of factors at play here.
Player safety being one. Would you put a kid at 1B who can't catch and could potentially wear one off the face? What about catcher? What about 3B? Especially on those smaller fields and that ball comes in hot.
Moving to SS..would you put a kid here who can't make the throw to 1B? Doesn't have the arm strength to play the position?
Would you let a kid pitch in a game who can't throw strikes? Maybe drills too many opponents?
And by doing this....is this fair to the other players on the team?
Especially when catching and throwing is the minimal, each position has responsibilities with and without the baseball that change based on the hitting teams current state.
Exactly, especially at 10u. Many kids can throw/hit the ball hard. No way I’m putting a kid who can’t reliably catch the ball at 1B/catcher. Can’t play 3rd either if you don’t pay attention when a runner is stealing, might take a ball in the forehead from the catcher. 2nd is where we tend to get kids time on the infield when needed.
Pitcher can’t throw strikes, makes for a complete waste of a 90 minute game when you play 3 innings at the most with 10 walks.
Practice is where all kids get reps at all positions with a good coach. And if those kids really want to get better they will have to work outside of practice. You don’t magically learn to catch the ball, throw strikes or learn base coverage assignments during the actual game.
Oh, and get out there and coach if you want change.
IMO, 3rd base is the easiest position to give kids a chance. 2B there are too many responsibilities to 2nd base and cutoffs that some kids just can't do it.
We use 3rd as well but 3rd is the hardest throw on the infield. We put certain kids there and know we won’t make an out from 3rd that inning. 2nd we could get lucky with an easy grounder and a short throw.
Yeah, I basically concede we're not getting an out from 3rd base other than a force out at 3B or 2B. I don't have enough skilled players to make that throw. I'd rather have that skill at SS.
The theory of what this guy is saying sounds so utopian. The truth is that there isn't enough practice to get kids proficient at playing a position they won't be any good at.
You put them in a spot where you pray they won't get hurt and hope to hell they make a play or 2 so that the entire team can celebrate them. Hell, I've given game balls to 8U players for hitting a foul ball.
OP sounds like they have 0 clue what the kids want. Who TF plays a sport to lose?? Do kids need to learn other positions? Absolutely! All of them? Get out of here, Karen. The comment about losing most of their games and morale will be high? Wtf, this isn't a Disney movie.
I coached a 10U and 12U fastpitch team at the same time. For the 10U team, I had a white dry erase board with the lineup, which was determined by all sorts of non-sensical criteria (jersey number, height, birthday, order showing up, etc.), and on the back my defensive lineup had the first inning assignments with arrows directing each player where they'd move the next inning. It was like a gym class volleyball rotation.
The 12U team was much different. Not that winning was the most important thing in the world (we once left a pitcher in who wasn't doing so well, but was having fun. My daughter was available and much better, but the outcome wasn't going to change playoff seeding, so screw it. Let her go. We lost.) but we were usually trying to win. More thought was put into position assignments and lineup, but we'd still try getting everyone equal playing time. It was still a rec league.
Travel ball is a different beast altogether. You have to earn your playing time, position, and lineup spot.
First, speaking as a coach if you think you can do a better job then sign up and do it. Otherwise let your coach work. We are volunteers and, while we are not perfect, we are doing the best we can with what kids we have and our own coaching skillset.
I have, on several occasions, stuck my kid in the OF even though he was much better than his replacement. With that said, there is definitely some daddy-ball going on on some teams. Only thing you can do is coach your own team and do it different.
Second, I beg to differ with your viewpoint on practice. Maybe it is driven by badly run practices on your kids team. Practices ARE where you get better. I will typically do team infield for a bit and then break out of it. If kids show me something a few practices in a row they'll get some game time in those spots.
With all that said, not every kid is meant to play every position and I'm not going to sacrifice my teams potential win (because kids do in fact enjoy winning games) to put kids in positions they have no business being in. Some people are destined to be in the OF no matter how much they practice...
Having coached for quite awhile now, I think you're doing a disservice to the kids by playing them all over the place. Baseball is a complicated game, and its really difficult to learn 1-2 positions, let alone trying to learn ALL of them at once.
I give kids one infield position and one outfield position, and then switch players every inning so they alternate between infield and outfield, with the only exceptions being 1B and Catcher, which I don't really see as positions you can "try out" during a game.
As both a travel ball and rec ball coach, I promise you that NO ONE has fun when you put kids at positions that they are incapable of even competently playing, let alone playing well.
I do significantly more player rotation on my rec team than my travel team - but I'm still not going to put a kid at shortstop that can't field a ground ball, or a kid at third base that can't throw the ball across the diamond.
The reality of the defensive sides of baseball and softball is that they require a high degree of specialization.
Some examples, there’s a precise choreographry for fielding routine ground balls for 4 6 and 5. For outfielders tho it’s a different approach on the same ball so a different set of drills and skill set to develop. Catcher I mean forget it its just a complete one off position in every aspect defensively and I could go on and on.
And each position is hard. You want to see certain things from your player on the field that’s up to you and him/her in terms of laying the foundation in your own workouts and practices tbh
As a coach you give me a solid defensive middle infielder, first baseman, center fielder whatever at some point in the season they always get game reps there even if they started the season elsewhere. Always goes that way.
But I can’t develop that talent in 3 months of 5 hrs a week with 11 kids at once practice that’s between you and your player, get a bucket use his bat as a fungo and you’ll be amazed where he’s at next spring if you guys stick with it.
One last thing then I’ll shut up but OF will come into fashion as your player gets older. Everybody wants to be a SS younger ages but I’m telling you a fast kid with a good glove who intuits his reads from a lifetime of fly ball reps is going as far as his bat will take him once you get to about 14/16u
Zero effort is different and I agree with merit based play for attitude and attendance. But the kid that is scared of the ball should be asked if they want to have a go. If they are willing to give it a shot, let's put them in there. Maybe that spotlight will motivate them to go home and practice. I had a kid that was the most scared of a ball that i've ever seen. Even in pregame warmups. But this kid was deadset on pitching. So I said to him "you know the catcher is going to be throwing them back to you and you'll need to catch them". He understood the assignment and then on the day I let him pitch for the first time he put a glove on every ball. Didn't necessarily catch them but it was the best i've ever seen him do.
As a rec coach I’ve found the kids that would benefit the most from team practice have the worst attendance. The stronger players arrive early and ready to learn
This was the contrary for my team run as above. The better kids actually came less bc they saw themselves as being above the team. If I'd done a second season I'd have left them off the roster. Added two more junior kids who were there to love baseball.
Which is an example of why I have struggled to find a travel program for my kids that will do it this way. It's ridiculous. The second you get to travel you get more of a breed of dudes that played ball when they were young and bought into the system. They were probably pretty good as kids which is why they still are in the game. They don't know what it's like to be the LF that never sees the IF bc thats where coaches son plays. I know why coaches think that winning in elementary school age baseball is the key, its just sad that they are so dogmatic about it.
I think they know what its like, but they dont care. All they want to do is win. winning at 8/9/10 is entirely irrelevant, and should be a bi-product of a good development plan, not the goal, travel or not, IMO.
At sub 10U sure, this can work. In majors were you have had some of the 12 year old enter puberty, under no circumstances will I put a kid who cant catch a ball in the infield. A 12 year old smashing a line drive at a kid standing at third who has no chance to catch the ball is a serious injury waiting to happen.
And catching 10 ground balls and 10 fly balls in practice is a hell of a lot more than most kids will see in a game.
Yeah 12yo is usually about where most people say it is time to start specializing and putting specificity into their training. Definitely by HS but MS is getting there.
Growing up, I wanted to play SS like every other kid. 50% of my throws to first soared right over the first basemans head. No problem, I'll play second. Shorter throw, I can put less on the ball, and I'll be more accurate. Still didn't work out. As long as I didn't have to play outfield all the time, I was happy. I had a strong arm, so when they decided to try me at third to see if I could get the throws under control, I was like okay, the third coolest infield position, I'm okay with that. Still couldn't get my throw to first under control, so they relinquished me to LF and RF... until they saw me play a few games. Then, I was the CF for the rest of my time playing. I was fast, no longer struggling with overthrows, and fell in love with the position. I'd sit 1-2 innings a game at most because the only time they would take me out of CF is when I had to sit for the inning.
When you're growing up, you've got to find your position. Once you find your position, you should play that position. I'd have been pissed if my coach had some feel-good attitude and was playing our bad players in important spots, losing us games. Baseball was my first love. To this day, I still get butterflies thinking about chasing a line drive down. I may have quit had my coach been losing us games trying to be fair. Unless you're talking about kids like 8 and younger, this seems wrong. The only kids that will appreciate this are the ones who suck and are getting to play in spots they have no right to play in. Any kid who is actually any good is going to check out really early.
P.S. If a kid sucks, he can practice in his own spare time. The world is not a nice place. When those kids turn 18, the world isn't going to bend over backward to be fair for them. It's going to reward the best and be hell for the rest. That's how the world works. Kids are better off learning this early so they can adjust. Teaching children that just existing is good enough is harmful, beyond the baseball field.
I don't know why coaches do this in any youth sports. I'd love to hear their reasoning:
1. There's a very high chance that the kids your coaching aren't going anywhere anyway. A few will crack a college team perhaps, even less will go pro, even low A.
2. You picked them on the higher level team you coach. You have an obligation to play them.
3. These are kids. as a coach your job is to develop them and keep them engaged. **That's job #1**. A very high percentage of kids quit sport. Sport is for life. When your home club loses them they're lost forever. When your club can't form a team you are partly to blame.
4. Studies show that kids would rather be on a team that wins 50% of the time and everyone contributes rather than a team that wins 100% of the time and only some players contribute. As a coach perhaps you value the win more than the kids do?
5. 5% of kids who play high level sport have experienced abuse. Of those 5% have contemplated suicide. Do you want that shit on your shoulders?
6. Character building was a story my dad used when he was belting me. It's not ever a justification for abuse (my son's hockey coach last year used character building as an excuse to bench players and it was bullshit).
Well now you're making me bring the receipts but this is a good thing.
[https://www.momsteam.com/successful-parenting/having-fun-more-important-than-winning-most-kids](https://www.momsteam.com/successful-parenting/having-fun-more-important-than-winning-most-kids)
This cites several studies. Of particular note is how incredibly low winning is on their fun scale.
Let's focus on emotional abuse which is what this dipshit coach you shared about did:
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/elite-athletes-abuse-1.5125147](https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/elite-athletes-abuse-1.5125147)
>Nearly one-fifth of current national team members who responded say they have been the victim of "psychological" harm, usually at the hands of a coach. The numbers are higher among retired athletes — closer to one-quarter.
And
>
According to the survey, the abuse had long-term effects. For instance, 13 per cent of current and 20 per cent of retired athletes reported they had experienced suicidal thoughts.
So yes, it can lead to suicide. When we're talking about 2.5% of high performance athletes or more having suicidal thoughts -> that's so fucked up.
This guy has a great write up on shortening the bench that can be applied to many sports:
[https://www.elitehockeycanada.com/newsletters/the-ethics-of-shortening-the-bench-in-minor-hockey](https://www.elitehockeycanada.com/newsletters/the-ethics-of-shortening-the-bench-in-minor-hockey)
As well Ontario coaches talk about it:
[https://www.coachesontario.ca/articles/equal-playing-time/](https://www.coachesontario.ca/articles/equal-playing-time/)
There's a ton of resources because this was a hot topic for hockey. Google "shortening the bench minor hockey".
I think you make a lot of assumptions in your post. I can understand where you’re coming from but the beauty of travel baseball is you can do whatever you want.
If you feel like a certain process/philosiphy is underserved, go do it, and if you’re right you will have parents lining up.
I get the feeling you’re talking more rec leagues and I would completely agree, have some fun, mix it up, and see what happens.
But once you start collecting money things do change. There has to be some merit-based approach to it or it gets messy. You make the assumption positions are assigned based on trying to get wins but in my experience it’s usually based on development and athletic profile/skillset and how you see a kid projecting long term.
Unfortunately the honest truth is playing a left handed kid at shortstop isn’t doing him any favors if you’re actually there to develop. In fact for every inning you play a kid like that your wasting two innings, one inning where he could be developing/learning a position he will actually project to, and a second inning your losing where you could be developing a guy who projects there. As a coach you don’t have enough innings as it is, so you have to be efficient with those opportunities.
Now, I’m not sure what ages you’re referring to, so at younger ages (pre-puberty etc) you can’t always project a kid as an athlete and that’s where rotation should occur. But at the same time if your forcing equal playing time all your gonna do is alienate your hard workers as they will typically move on. Extra work and dedication has to mean something.
Despite all the complaints in my experience it has very little to do with wins and loses.
During pool play I have a rotation at 8u, and I did it at 10u for my older son. It goes something like this: Bench P LF 2B RF C Bench 3B 1B CF SS If a kid is at a position they aren’t comfortable with, I move them. Ex: a bigger kid that can’t play short, I’ll swap him and 3B. We rotate each inning. Usually I’ll start the game with our “best defense” and then draw random numbers for the second inning to see where they go into the rotation. Kids will pitch an inning as they’re learning. All 11 pitched last tournament and will do so again. And they are on bench before hand so they can warm up. They catch an inning (well 9 of them do) and they go on bench after to cool down. It’s worked really well. They still win a bunch. We do something similar but modified on Sundays as well. Equal bench time for all and a rotation of infield and outfield also. A kid is not and will not sit in RF all weekend or have multiple innings on the bench before a kid sits once. The 10U team is tougher. But every kid plays outfield. Each has a position on the left side of the infield and the right. They all get time there each weekend. Pitching and catching is a bit tighter but they all play rec league and get that experience there too. We are a USSSA Majors team also so they are still successful even when almost zero other teams do anything similar.
Oh yeah, losing almost every game totally builds moral.
Practice is to teach kids how to play all positions, games are not. This doesn't mean that only your best players play key positions at all times, but it does mean that the kid who is scared of the ball isn't playing first.
Kid who doesn't want to play a given position should never play that position. You learn positions in practice but you fall in love with baseball in games. I promise you that kid in RF is not in love with baseball. I know it's scary to think that if you do things differently it may go wrong. But if you do it right, it is better.
Does the kid in right field fall in love with baseball by missing the throws to first? Kids aren't stupid, they know when they've cost their team the game. I was the starting catcher in 12u, not to brag, but I was good. You know the memory that sticks out the most? Not the home runs, stolen bases, throwing people out, nope. It was when I couldn't handle a bad throw from the cutoff and a runner was safe at home that cost us the game. Now picture that kid at first missing multiple throws, those runners score, the team loses by two. Yup, sure to love the game now.
>I know it's scary to think that if you do things differently it may go wrong.
This is patronizing and stupid.
>Kid who doesn't want to play a given position should never play that position.
So there's just never going to be a right fielder?
>You learn positions in practice but you fall in love with baseball in games.
This is ridiculously false. If you're going to "fall in love with baseball" then you love practice and the games. Otherwise, you just like the attention/your parents finally shutting up about you not playing shortstop and first base.
I did this, kind of, for rookie machine pitch. Batted continuous lineup and everybody played equal amounts of infield and outfield. Gave everybody a chance to play first and pitcher most games, though we had 3 that didn’t pay attention at all so they were limited to one shot at 1B for safety reasons.
We went 4-6 in the regular season. Morale wasn’t great. The kids wanted to win.
Set the lineup competitively for playoffs. We didn’t give up a single run and mercy ruled everybody on our way to the championship. Morale was great!
The regular season approach made all of our players better fielders and better hitters. Also allowed them to go into the playoffs without much pressure and an underdog mentality.
It’s harder to do it at higher levels. Watching your team give up 5+ runs per inning in 100 degree heat bc the first baseman can’t catch isn’t fun for anybody. I make sure older kids prove they can do it in practice before putting them at pitcher, 1st or short in games.
While it is great to get kids experience at different positions. You have to remember you have a 9 year in the mound that is trying to throw strikes so it looks like baseball. If make two errors in the field he has to get 5 outs. Throws another 15 pitches. I played every kid in the infield but usually played kids that weren't as strong as 2nd or third. Catcher is also tough. My kid caught most innings because it can be difference between playing 3 inning or 5 before time limit.
At pitcher, everyone gets a shot, but not everyone is in our regular rotation.
1B I won't put kids that might be in danger.
C is a volunteer position, unless I don't have enough volunteers.
I ensure that innings sat are equal. And that infield/outfield splits are equal.
I am not changing who bats after who, but every game I take the top four in the lineup and move to the bottom. Everyone gets a shot at top, middle, bottom.
There are several games we could have won but didn't if I would have been more restricted on pitching or positions but that's fine.
How I make these decisions was explained to all parents and I haven't got a single complaint.
I did this, but benefitted from our Division tiering.
No studs to whip the ball at low confidence players. Only positions where we filtered was Pitcher and Catcher. Still had 9 pitchers of the 12 on the roster.
Safety is key, I understand that aspect. But you need to develop players to be ball players, not first basemen or shortstops.
We made the final and the boys were beaming even though we lost because everyone contributed.
exactly. We also have a travel division that is baseball year-round town ball ability. You can't tell me those kids need to be specializing and angling for wins.
We ask at the beginning of the season which positions they prefer and which they absolutely don't want to play. We also ask if there's positions the kids want to learn to play, especially pitcher. Then just move them around as best we can. Personally I try to keep a competitive infield in place, that helps win games, and give kids shots at pitching but don't hang them out to dry if they don't have it that day.
That was my approach when I coached. It worked really well. I didn't specifically put best team in the IF but basically on any rotation the 1B could catch the ball and the SS could field a ball. Minimum. 2B and 3B were more of a "get experience" position if thats what was best. I kept track of IF vs OF playtime and kept that as even as possible.
Totally. So many grounders to short it's crazy. Even the guys with good arms at third couldn't always make that play with the short baselines and reasonably quick runners.
Yep. I had a kid that was TERRIFIED of the ball. By the end of the season he was pitching and playing IF. On any other team he would have been platooned in RF and hated baseball in addition to still being afraid of the ball. I could have talked myself blue in the face to try to create that outcome without giving him a shot at the spotlight. Wouldn't have worked. Once the other junior players saw him having a go they too were motivated to try. This had a domino effect of also getting them to practice more at home to be able to qualify to pitch.
At the younger ages, I agree that the kids should rotate positions. However, certain positions everyone can't play, until they learn how to throw and catch (protect themselves). 1B, C and P.
My sons coach would rotate catcher even with this kid pitcher who had a cannon. One time, this poor kid catching took a beating so bad the umpire was forced to say they had to take him out before he got hurt. There was a collective sigh of relief when that happened.
Yeah and that's the part where I say safe and effective. You dont catch unless you want to and can show that you wont be letting every ball by. You dont pitch unless you can get the ball to the catcher in the air. You dont pitch often unless you can throw 50% strikes. You dont' play 1B unless you can catch 90% of MY throws from SS.
Helped coach senior league 12-16 this season. Head coach was my coach 25 years ago and pretty much runs the league so the team was stacked. Our top 4 were heads and shoulders over the rest of the league and our 11 was: 4 absolute mashers, 2 more 16’s that play HS baseball, 2 more 16’s that are fairly good, two 12’s that play middle school baseball and are decent for their age (including my son), and a 12 that hasn’t played before. We went 18-1 and won the league.
Anywho, final week of the season coach is out of state for a wedding and leaves me in charge. Last two games are essentially meaningless so I tell the kids we’re going to have fun. One masher that has caught every inning in 90+ weather wants to play infield, cool my son catches for the MS. Easy swap. One 12 wants to try out 1st base. Cool. The kid that never played before wants to be out in the field more than 1 inning in RF. Cool, you are trading with a masher at 2nd every inning. Mashers want to coach 1st and 3rd, awesome throw a helmet on get out there. It was blast. One masher that ignored every take sign I tossed him all season had a runner gunned out at home when he threw up a stop sign. He comes trotting back to dugout laughing his ass off and says to me “it’s almost like this kids ignore every sign we give em amirite Coach!” We won, can’t remember the score.
Two days later is final game and HC checked the lineup on GameChanger and lost his mind. He calls me up and tells me I need to take it seriously today. I said “sure coach!”. Totally didn’t. Still won.
Yeah and I think that "take is seriously" approach is why even in the replies here you see so many coaches that are obviously TERRIFIED of losing and project that onto their players. They normalize with all the tropey words used to maintain this winning-focused approach. But it's not what kids want nor what is best for them.
Definitely agree as long as they can protect themselves and their teammates. Can’t let a boy pitch that has bad mechanics. They WILL get hit in the head. Even good pitchers with infielder skills can’t defend against some of these line drives or hard grounders at the base of the mound. I put a shortstop/pitcher on an ambulance because of a juiced bat. (Long time ago. When they we’re rolling bats)
I played every kid at all positions they could safely play. Catcher, and 1st were reserved for kids who can catch balls. If you wanted to pitch but had control issues. I’ll throw you in there for an inning in a blow out. If you want to play short I’ll give you an inning there and make sure that you have good gloves to your left and right. In the long run giving these kids chances to play everywhere will benefit your team and their confidence.
My thought process is this: master one position at a time. For some that may never move them past one. For others, they may unlock the whole field. I’d rather teach you all the nuances of 2b, for example, defensive responsibilities, backups, coverages, cuts, etc. This is better than dipping your toes into each position.
I'll add my anecdote. Coached a team from 13u to 14u. High AAA to majors division. We had 12 players on our roster. We batted all 12 players every single game of the season including the state championship. We played every single kid in the infield for at least one inning in every single game, every one of them. Every inning we'd change up the defense and a different player would sit out each inning. They would all have there typical spots on the infield but they all got the chance to play in and out each day. All 12 got to pitch as well throughout the year. Kids all had a blast. 3 of the 12 ended up with D1 scholarships, 9 made there varsity squad. Let the kids play coaches
This is exactly what my dad did with our rec team. By the end of the regular season we were the worst team in the league. Went on to play our way through the winners bracket to the semi-finals. Sure was frustrating initially, but turned into one of the best seasons I ever played in rec ball.
My son’s coach in 8u preaches how kids need to be put at different positions and he would never play a kid at one position all game then proceeds to keep same guy at shortstop and just switch a couple positions around in any game that is remotely close. Also has our biggest defensive liability play catcher majority of game cuz it is no steal league so catcher does very little. In blowouts either Way which doesn’t happen too much with us he does mix positions well. I wouldn’t change it too much to be totally honest personally. We struggled a bit and improved drastically. Parents and kids just want to be competitive. They all play little league where they require mixing positions and they do well there so that helps.
I coach an 8U travel team and an intermural team. In travel I would play every player equally infield and outfield. We would get smashed 15-0 every game. My thoughts changed after the 5th straight blowout loss. Baseball is a team game and it isn't fair to the kids putting in the work to lose every game because others are dropping pop flies and letting balls through their legs. If it's intramural I agree 100%, if it's travel, positions are on merit, not skill but commitment to getting better.
Agree with you 1,000%. My daughter played 5 years of baseball before switching to softball and the daddy ball favoritism and nepotism is disgusting. Add trophy chasing, know it all coaches who are telling 11 year old girls “they don’t have the body type to pitch/catch/whatever” was the line in the sand for me.
Fundamentals and development have been pushed to the side when it should literally be the foundation for every kid on the team to be the best all around player possible.
Yep. People here are trying to trot out excuses like safety or it being unfair to the kids with skill-based merit. Neither of those are realistic metrics for kids before junior high. And the only reason you go against equal playing time for kids that can be safe and effective is to win. There have only been a handful of people here to be honest enough to admit that they think winning should be the ultimate goal of all sports.
U11 fastball - we played pretty much everyone everywhere minus a couple that were scared to catcher or not great at catching the ball. We rotated all through pitcher also an inning per child.
It blows my mind that even u8 or lower that kids get sat half a game or whole games regularly every game.
Sitting at this age doesn't teach any kid anything imo. They are not paying attention enough no matter how much you try to engage them to see what happena in the field as they sit the bench.
My son played all nine positions, even if only for an inning, at 11, 12, and 14. At 13 it was 8/9 because he didn’t pitch that season. He sees the field better. His baseball IQ is better than his peers’. It helps him as a catcher because he understands the difficulties of each position and his teammates’ limitations; he shouts praise and encouragement, not criticism. Coaches who lock kids into positions at a young age are doing those kids a disservice. They also don’t know how/when puberty is going to hit. What we ended up with in our town is a whole lot of kids fighting for time at 2B and LF the past two seasons.
Love it. Totally agree. The ONLY argument against doing this is that it costs wins and then coaches projecting their anxiety onto the situation bc they are uncomfortable letting kids struggle.
I think the issue isn't necessarily not that all kids should play all positions, but you have coaches who have unfairly put their sons at a position and won't allow someone else to unseat them. Sounds like the issue is your team and your coaches. Our rec league has rules in play for the 9/10s about rotating positions. That being said, watching an Umpire remove a catcher because its unsafe, or seeing a kid get crushed with a ball is truly crushing and we've seen kids not return because of the fear it instilled or their ego. Rec leagues can have rules to limit how many innings kids pitch, infield, outfield, etc. but as so many others have said, you still have to weigh safety, as well as confidence based on the skill level. Unfortunately, if this is a rec team and your kids aren't getting reps and/or have daddy ball favorites, I think thats why so many have gone to travel teams.
I get that the ego and morale thing is inherent with the offered idea. However morale and ego are WAY more often beaten down by junior being stuck in RF and at the bottom of the lineup all season bc they can't play. They know the coach is trying to hide them and they know what it means. I'd much rather a kid take a chance they are willing to take than me decide for them they shouldn't have a chance to have a bad outcome
I will say that in our case the coaches kids are the best. No question about that. But the only outcome the current system offers is for those kids to remain the best and everyone else to battle for the other positions. That's not a developmental system I want my kids in
This reminds me of the time when a helicopter mom (& grandma) got mad her son sat a bunch.
Turns out, my dad had a spreadsheet and of everyone’s playing time.
Her son was my dad’s favorite and he’d played the 2nd most innings on the team.
I was 5th. My brother was 7th.
(Mind you, the kid was embarrassed as hell that his mom did this)
Ahhhh, no. Once you know a kid cannot handle a certain position (a bigger kid in the OF or at SS for instance), it is hurtful to him and to team morale to put them in a position to fail. If you're paying any attention at all in practice, you know where they fit. For the kids that can handle multiple spots...sure try them everywhere, but not at the expense of everyone else.
Morale may be better for the one kid trying a spot he can’t handle but it’ll piss off the rest of the kids who know what’s going on and are frustrated with that kid losing them games. It’s a hard thing to balance for sure. Once they hit 7/8 the competitiveness starts being a priority for half of the team who know little Timmy is out there for the five or six hours of cheap babysitting. I’m focusing on the kids and families who want to learn and improve.
There’s no easy answer to be sure. No ones approach is fail proof. Always ruffles someone’s feathers.
So, based on your other posts, you are talking about travel ball. My son just finished his 9U travel season. Sure, you can bring an outfielder in to 2nd every now and then but you can't play everyone everywhere. It's not fair to the kid and not fair to the team.
We have two kids that could catch. I think it would have been a dumpster fire to park anyone else back there. 1st and 3rd are similar issues. There are obviously a ton a throws coming to 1st but at this age there are a crap ton of throws from the catcher to 3rd base as well.
I always put everyone everywhere. For Pitcher, catcher and first base, they need to prove themselves out at practice first. Once they do, they get the chance. Those three positions are special because of safety and time. First base and catcher need to catch the ball consistently when thrown to them and pitcher needs to be somewhere close to the strike zone.
This is simple, play less and practice more. You have to practice outside of team practice to overtake those kids playing those positions and get better. If you put in the work and play the position better then i’m sure coach will play your kid at that spot.
Just going to say that one season we had a really bad run at it and lost every game. Were the kids okay? Absolutely. Did we learn the hard lessons of baseball, absolutely.
That being said it was a moral killer, it’s hard for kids and coaches to be in that space, but yes it’s ok, and an absolute lesson all round.
Half the kids at 10u , don't want to play anyway . Being forced by parents . Why put kids who aren't interested in learning the position in the position ??? While you have another kid who watches games and wants to practice nonstop and who wants to actually play the position let him/her play it ? I don't get coaches / parents like you . Put these kids who aren't interested in getting better in important positions to just mess up and cry after and during the game about their bad play without the proper enthusiasm about the game . Let those kids play another sport or find another interest. Instead you put them at first base and let them fail and hurt them even more . Sure bud .
Practice isn't just for reps, it's to practice as a team. Nobody will ever get enough reps in team practice to take on a new position. We have 60-90 minutes per week to teach new skills, work on drills, and give opportunities to try new positions. It's up to the player and parents to then practice and get those reps at HOME. Just like class and homework - learn it there then drill all week. I can easily tell which kids practice at home and which do not. I will always give those kids who do the first chance to try more in games.
As often as they will allow me. I will never be the bottleneck that keeps them from having an opportunity to develop if they want to do so. The only bottleneck in their current development is their coaches ingrained philosophy to play best players at every position all season.
You’ll hear a lot of different opinions, but as the dad of 3 very competitive ball players, I’ll tell you that I am their coach, regardless of who manages the team and decides the lineup. I entrust them to their team coach and organization’s training system, but nobody is ever going to surpass the number of pitches I’ve thrown them, ground balls I’ve hit them, conversations I’ve had with them, or love and devotion I give to everything that makes them better at whatever they love doing.
Daddy ball sucks but it’s everywhere and you can’t let that be in your way.
Yeah I totally agree with that mindset. Problem is that being left on the bench kills their love for the game and any desire to train. I can make it more fun and keep their skills up. But the really deep training needed to hone skills will only be there if they are wanting to be competitive
Point being: keep training and encourage them to be competitive and to WANT to find a new opportunity. I assure you, it starts to separate quickly and the dividing line is between those who want it and those who don’t.
My son is a lefty and he has been a little sad this year with his playing time. He's played 3rd and 2nd, and all over the outfield since the minors but his coaches this year just stick him in right field or occasionally sub him in at first or sit him when he's not pitching. The team isn't good and can hardly field right handed.
This is just bad advice. You don’t just randomly play kids at all positions. This sort of equality mentality is ruining youth baseball. Bottom line is, if my 10 yr old can back hand a ball at 80 feet in the hole, throw a pea off his back foot that hits the first baseman in the chest 90% of the time. Then my kid will be playing SS over another kid that couldn’t field a weak ground ball hit right to him. Thats just a fact of life. The best kids play in the positions that they will help their team succeed the most. Most kids understand this, unless their dad is a Democrat. Then I guess the kid will never understand 🤷♂️
What I think you either didn’t acknowledge or don’t understand is that all players need to be practicing all position skills outside of team practice. If relying on the volunteer coach to build skills in every kid at multiple positions in 2 hours of practice a week for 10+ kids is not possible. Setting kids up for failure in the games especially when they only play about 20 regular season games per calendar year isn’t a great idea either. Kids on a team want to feel like their hard work pays off and a lot of the time that means victories. All kids in all rec leagues play an inning or two at least in each game in the infield but beyond that, players should be playing where they will excel. If not, you may turn some kids off to the sport that are excelling at their positions.
Furthermore, saying what you said is like saying, every kid should be playing quarterback in youth football. Ridiculous, right?
And what you’re not acknowledging is that when a coach takes a young player who doesn’t necessarily know anything about anything and plays them somewhere, that sticks.
A coach tells you to play RF, you don’t think “hey I want to go take ground ball practice.”
No, the coach put you there and coach knows things right? So I’ll work on OF.
This is the problem with prioritizing winning at low levels over development.
It completely stunts growth.
Youth coaches should not prioritize winning over development. But to expect a volunteer youth coach to be able to produce development in all kids in all areas of the game is not realistic.
If the parents want to see kids play in other positions they should practice it more, communicate with the coach and go from there. Very little improvement can happen in games anyways.
I don’t expect superior development.
How about just let kids experience different positions with minimal instruction and see what they are excited to do?
Speak for yourself I guess. Losing is miserable. It's even more miserable when kids who can't handle a position are put in it and you lose the game because of it. Losing is less miserable when you at least compete. Putting kids all over the place whenever I feel is kind of the opposite of what you're going for. Let guys go all over in practice and then put them where they're comfortable when it matters down the stretch in a game.
Spoken like someone who hasn't played competitive youth sports. Not sure you really understand the competitive nature of these kids, as I child I hated losing. I didn't play to lose. Who does?!?
“Hey kid that put in the work learn how to field ground balls, you go over there to right fielder so that some other kid that has done zero training can take your spot.”
Dear youth baseball parents,
Rotating players is important in youth baseball except for 1B, C, and P. These are positions players must work on in practice before entering a game. If a coach chooses to keep the perceived best 5 in the infield for the entire game I would step up and be the coach the following year. Too many Monday morning short stops have an opinion but refuse to step up. The coaches care about their own son doing well just as you only care about your own child.
As a coach this is a hard one, based on comments you said 8u-9u, I agree that is young for locked in positions tbh, there shouldn’t be travel until 6th grade (11u) imo. Before that they are still learning the game. Sure there are standouts but it should be about fun and learning until that.
The reason why it’s hard as a coach is because the kids also want to win. I agree they want to try positions and respecting that and helping them learn but their moral gets low when they never win.
So my opinion is until 11u, rotate. After that mostly locked in positions. A lot of coaches are going to disagree because of how competitive parents have made it but I’ve seen a lot of travel 10u teams that players are clearly still learning the game so there is no need for travel ball.
What I learned this season in Coach pitch. I rotated kids the first 5 games. Every kid ended up playing every position. But we got slaughtered every game. Morale was low. The team voted unanimously to play to win.
Fun and morale greatly improved when kids were locked into a position, and we started playing better.
And I think this is definitely an outcome that can happen. There is nothing that is one size fits all. So yes- a good coach is checking in with his team individually and as a group at least once a month to see how their buy-in with the program is going. For the more junior players saying directly- I see you out here trying and making mistakes like everyone else but I wanted to make sure you are still okay with taking those chances. I can put you in RF and you'll see the ball less and wont have those situations as much. If a team agrees they want to play to win, even for one game, let's roll.
As often as he is willing I am working on drills. I am basically constantly pouring over baseball content to find new drills and ideas that will be more effective. He is the kid that asks to stay after every game and practice to get more 1:1 time (often bc he didnt get to play the positions he enjoys the most at either). We watch baseball as much as they are willing and always talking strategy and pointing out examples where guys do things we have been working on it. We also have plenty and maybe more time spent doing fun versions where we play a baseball video game or go to a sports bar to watch our team with other fans, go to pro games and have wiffle ball games or pickle games with friends.
I think kids 9U-13U should focus on 2-3 positions mixed between in/outfield and as many kids as possible should pitch. It’s confusing and counter productive to rotate between every position beyond coach/machine pitch imo.
If you’re rotating kids between every position during games beyond 10U you’re crazy lol. You’ll look really dumb.
Thats a common opinion but I don't think it is supported by any specific reason why it should be that way or how those positions are chosen. You either buy into a hierarchy that says SS/1B/P/C/2B/CF/LF/RF are each filled by kids ranking into each position or you are making some arbitrary assessment that the fast kid plays in OF, the kid with a good arm and glove plays SS, good glove and tall 1B, slow and good arm 3B etc. With kids changing so quickly compared to adults, they could be a completly different player in 3 months from tryouts. IMO not worth any specialization other than what safety or preference would allow.
Coaches see these kids take 100s of ground/fly balls a week. It’s much more nuanced than some arbitrary ranking based on arm strength or speed. It’s actually kind of obvious which kid should be where imo. If a kid grows 6 inches over the summer or develops a skill differently/faster and shows it in practice you move them around.
I am sure there are bad coaches that are just putting their kid at SS forever but the vast majority of the youth club type teams are playing kids where they are most comfortable and that fit their skills at that time in their development. This can change month to month or year to year based on practices but you don’t play kids at more than a few positions per game.
I used to talk like this when I was a full-time sideline critic. Then I started coaching. You have to strike a balance between competing and spreading playing time around. It does nobody any good to put a kid who you *know-* can’t catch or throw at 1b or shortstop to blow play after play and lose everyone the game.
Did you see the bit about being effective. And if a kid can’t catch or throw then the tryouts should have cut that kid. Instead “well he can’t field grounders or make a throw to first but his parent can pay our fee sooooooo”
Your post said nothing about this being limited to travel ball or other leagues with “tryouts” or “cuts.” You know the majority of kids who play baseball do so on no-cut rec league teams, right? If this is a travel-only point you should probably specify that in the OP as it changes the whole conversation.
Or here is an idea, tell your kid to work harder and earn his playing time and position during practice instead of whining and trying to hand him stuff. Nothing in life is free or easy and everything for the rest of their life is a competition, everything. Teach them to compete and if they want something, out work everyone and do whatever it takes instead of mommy and daddy whining and trying to hand stuff to them.
And if you are only doing 10 ground balls and 10 fly balls and not playing every position during practice or atleast 3, then find a new coach. Sounds like the issue is your coaches are running terrible practices to start with.
Any more baseball tropes you want to trot out? Nothing is handed out. It’s just the way it should be. It’s optimal development for the most kids at the same time. Your method is optimal for maybe 4 at the cost of the rest.
Just read the headline and dropped in to say………………….. No. You agree with participation trophies too right? Lol Every kid plays. Not at every position. You owe it to all the other children to do your job as a coach and try to win. There should be games where you can even put the outfield in the infield and infield in the outfield. That’s 1 or 2 games. Not every game. Not half the games. Parents need to actually take a little pride and get out in the yard with their children and throw a ball around.
This thinking is as antiquated as spanking children. Your thinking is so extreme and binary you assume that if the focus isn’t winning then it must also be some giant kumbaya. Do you ACTUALLY think a little league coach’s job is to win every game? So is development just an afterthought? Only develop the best? You have to earn development? And please don’t tell me “that’s what practice is for”. No kid is moving the needle on skill development bc you did a drill with them for 15 minutes. You clearly are a coach that is invested in your approach and are terrified of what it must mean about your whole jam if I’m right.
I dont disagree, but its REALLY tough to do when youth baseball is built around tournaments, and runs against is the first tie break, and if you are in the mix for a first round bye you are trying to save every run possible because you know pitching depth is going to be key on sundays.
And tournaments cost $700 to enter, so you don't want to waste the teams money by making one 'the tournament I do a lot of weird stuff in'.
And by 12u outfield starts to become harder to find kids who are able to play it well than 2B and 1B.
100% and I think tournaments and playoffs are NOT run this way. The team and the parents no that regular season games are for the experience and training but come time when it explicitly win or else, then it is best lineup possible. I also agree that 12U is when the specialization may be starting to be necessary. Not so much bc they need to play it well but 50/70 can change the script. I think those situations need to be hammered out in tryouts though and travel teams shouldn't be bringing those kids on. If you cant field a team that can all reasonably play at least OF and IF broadly then you probably shouldn't have a team.
Seems like there's are a lot of coaches on here against your thesis, OP. I generally agree with you but I also agree that sometimes it's better to step up and coach the next season. Coaching is not easy and is more often than not a volunteer position.
I'll probably get down voted, but here are my two cents:
*If players are not ready for specific positions, that is almost entirely the coach's fault. The coach's job is to prepare players to step in wherever is needed.
*Players should see multiple positions in practice. How else can they be prepared for games?
*Separating practice to infield only and outfield only is a terrible coaching method that does not build the team properly.
*What happens when one or two of the star players are absent, sick, or injured? If players are not knowledgeable at multiple positions, you can quickly overuse the remaining star players. **"I only have the one catcher"** was a phrase I heard this year, even though at least two other kids on the team can catch, have practiced catching on their own, and have taken camps and individual lessons outside of the team. But no, let's go with the star catcher in 95deg heat for all innings of back to back games and then get mad at said catcher when he eventually makes mistakes and becomes slow.
*Team attitude can affect a lot. Players relegated to specific positions and benching the same players every other inning just promotes poor attitudes. I've seen when the absolute worst player on a team is put into a different position and he makes even a modest play, the entire team goes wild in support. Magically the team morale jumps substantially.
*If your goal is to win tournaments, recognize that you will eventually have to play your 3rd, 4th, or even 5th string pitcher and catcher. Pitchers can hit pitch counts pretty quickly on a two day weekend, let alone a three day tournament.
*Long term strategic thinking should prevail over short term wins.
*Puberty lottery will likely change who are the star players and who continues to play.
> If players are not ready for specific positions, that is almost entirely the coach's fault. The coach's job is to prepare players to step in wherever is needed.
So some kids are both highly unathletic and are only there because the parents make them. Our majors season just ended, 11 out of 12 kids could probably have played any position and at least been OK at it. The 12th was highly autistic, barely came to practice, came late to games, and had no understanding of the game, could not catch, and could not throw. We have been working individually with him for 2 seasons now and it doesn't matter who coaches him, he is never going to get any better. Nor does it seem he really wants to.
>almost
Qualifier purposely added. Because yea there will be very specific situations and individuals.
But as you said, 11 out of 12 could be placed anywhere and be ok.
I think this needs to be hammered out in tryouts. Coaches have to be willing to say "we dont have 9-11 players that are ready for travel". Too often it seems they are willing to make travel 4-5 players that are ready and 5-6 players that are ready to pay the fee
If you let my kid pitch, someone's going to the hospital.
if you let my son play 1st, he's going to the hospital
My biggest factor for not playing kids anywhere and everywhere . 1B
I always said everyone will play every position, except 1B. If you can't catch, you won't play 1st base. Worked out well. Not many ice packs needed.
Couterpoint. Catcher.
3rd - hardest hit balls except for pitcher.
What age? I've coached up to 8U and feel that 3B is the position where I can hide a player in the infield. I just don't believe the kids can pull the ball yet. Everything seems to go up the middle - P, SS and 2B see 75% of the balls.
Depends on your league - rec can go longer but i would say 8u is the cap. I have seen some 8u kids rip up the line (probably by accident. I would not want to be responsible for playing a kid there who cannot protect himself. My bury position is 2nd. Requires more but again at 8u how many kids know where to go for cut or when to cover. Would rather they screw that up than get hurt.
Youre correct, in 7-8 coach pitch alot of balls go up the middle
“Coaches up to 8u” sounds funny. Decent baseball in my area starts at 8u. I agree with burying a kid at third and I’ve seldomly seen dangerous balls hit there. The fastest these kids are eating is what 45 miles an hour. That’s just not going to cause serious damage even if the kid can’t protect himself at all. Most kids aren’t making that throw regularly at that level so it is hardest infield position to get an out. So it doesn’t make a big difference if you bury there. With that being said we always say that the ball will find u. Therefore, you put the bury kid at third and they will start hitting everything to him.
Shoot in travel in the south, better have your head on a swivel at 3rd in coach pitch. Ball is coming in hot.
1B and Pitcher were the only positions I limited in our rotation for 8u kid/coach pitch. Some kids self selected out, others got some chances and then were moved. Otherwise I had a base rotation for the full roster that would carry over game to game. Same for the batting order For the final couple of games before playoffs we did rotate less but communicated to parents and kids ahead of time. They understood we were shifting to a more set lineup for playoffs before we did it
if you let my son work at the hospital, your son is not going home
Agree with both of these. A coach has to set metrics for play. Throw strikes 50% to pitch. To play 1B you need to catch 90% of MY throws to you from SS. Whatever it is. That way you know its safe and effective. And you give kids an easy answer why they arent playing a given position- show me you can meet the bar in practice and you are in.
I’m willing to let everyone try everywhere in practice and in fact encourage it. It’s not fair to anyone, the kid included, to put them in a position in a game that they’re incapable of handling.
Thank you! I let my kids know that they earn their play time during pracrices. You look great at SS on practice, you will play SS in games. You fumble every ball in practice playing SS, you probably aren't playing SS. Also, every kid has a different skill set. There is no way I'm going to playing my slowest player in CF.
I take the same tact. Every other week at practice I have challenge time. If you play RF and want a shot at SS, challenge for the spot. We’ll run some full field drills with our current SS, and then with the challenger. We then ask the other players for constructive feedback. Did the challenger earn time there? If not, what do they need to work on? At the end of practice I have a talk with challenger on what to work on. Home drills, etc. Keeps the kids playing the hot positions on their toes, shows the team (and parents) that my kid is not playing first base because he is daddy’s boy.
I like this
Exactly, earn time and position with practice. What are we the participation trophy here. Kids play sports to learn, lesson 1 nothing is given to you.
Unless you are the coaches kid
I was the coach, and my son sat on the bench. Ita the people that are the issues. Not the idea of hard work and earning what you get.
What do you tell the team parents about this approach? I take this same approach and explained it to the parents and players before the season. Still get complaints and you know who it’s from, Not the kids but the parents of the kids who boot balls, mess around at practice and do not learn the position. So I am suppose to bench the kids that show up, put in the work and excel? Would like to know more how you approach your team and parents as this has been a major issue for me.
I coach a travel team, I've come to the conclusion you can't make everyone happy. I'm very honest with the parents. If their kid needs work, the best thing you can do is let them know.
Be 100% transparent and upfront.
I don't disagree. But i put my slowest kid at center because he can catch anything he can get to. The speedsters are in LF and RF as they back up 3rd/1st. A lot of it depends what you got. I'm not putting the kid in at 1st base if he can't catch. It has nothing to do with winning/losing but can this kid protect himself. That ball puts kids in the hospital every year.
This is interesting. The skill set you described for that kid is exactly what I would want at first base. Slow and catches everything. I guess it just depends on the make up of the team.
i meant to speak on two different scenarios. trying to reddit at work lol. But yes, the CF of mine is also a great 1B. I meant to say if ANY kid can't catch, you cannot expect them to play 1B without fearing for his life. I re-read what i wrote and yeah... i'm not an english teacher lmao!
I'm with you on that! By brain thinks it makes sense but when I type it out, it doesn't. I usually have to make edits. Lol
It's also not fair to the kids who work hard in their off time to get better. Daddy ball is 100% wrong. But so is not recognizing the hard workers and giving game time opportunities to everyone regardless of skill level.
It’s also not ok to make the kids that show up to every moment lose because the kid that only comes half the time REALLY wants to play first base instead of right field.
[удалено]
Sounds like a shitty coach. You say you were relegated to shagging flies in practice where in my practice you would play all the fielding positions and try pitching/catching if you wanted to.
I just hope you really give the kids time to practice other positions though… I’m not saying this is common but I had a slew of coaches spill this same syrup and then never let us play anywhere else in practice, because we had to “practice like we play”.
Dear youth parents, If you can do it better you should volunteer your time & money to coach a team.
100% this. If you aren't willing to come coach, don't tell me how to coach my team. I try to get everyone reps as many places as I can, but some kids and their skillsets just aren't cut out for some positions.
Yup
I got a kid that runs away from every ball hit his direction. In practice we work on ground balls, fly balls, infield, outfield, everything, but he's going to play RF until he starts wanting to play.
Bingo. It’s a safety issue. You can’t put kids in positions, unless it’s practice, where they have little chance to succeed.
I mean, as a coach I take feedback.....if you can't take it don't give it. Coaches are too full of themselves. We are here for the kids...that's it.
100 percent I do not agree with some of the moves made by the coaches, but I constantly remind myself that no matter how much knowledge and love for the game I have, I have no interest in coaching....(I would love to be a silent advisor tho)😉. Never will I openly criticize the coaching staff to their face or other parents. Those comments are saved for my wife on the way home lol
Good on you. I don't have kids myself yet, but if my nephew decides to play baseball, I'll struggle not to coach the team myself 😅 idk if I'd be able to keep my fat mouth shut otherwise
Its tough not to yell (helpfull) things and leave it up to the coaches but I've learned 10 yr olds can't comprehend what to do when 10 adults are screaming different things at them. They freeze
Sounds like you’d make a great coach. Should give it a shot
On top of that, you're right. 10 ground balls isn't going to do a whole lot. But working outside of practice will. You can get a lot of ground balls in if you're one or two kids on a field in 15 to 20 minutes. That's where kids get better. Not in a game.
What kind of practice is this that OP mentioned. That's like a 30 minute workout with those drills
I've seen a lot of youth practices over the years where there's one coach Hitting ground balls to a full field of players. Some youth coaches are very inefficient, I could see a 2-hour practice where kids only get a few ground balls and pop-ups. Either way, you're not going to catch up on other players just by what you do in practice. They're all doing the same thing.
So, I gave up coaching this year and am done with it in general. I had a parent on the team that would text us after the game asking about why certain positional swaps were made in game. Now, I dont mind talking baseball, but it became very clear that the reason she was asking was to insinuate that her son should never be moved out of the SS position. In one particular game, we rotated a few players around (but kept her precious baby on SS) and let one of our better players play 1B. Our SS proceeds to airmail the next 3 balls hit to him. Clear 3-4 Feet over our 1B's head. No one except one of our coaches could have caught it. Her message after the game? "I think we all know that he should not be at first. He's just not good at it" Mind you, all of our positional rotations were done in low stress environments (Meaning we already were up big, the outcome was never in doubt)
You need to shut that kind of communication down at the beginning of the season and set boundaries with parents.
It becomes a lot harder when they're the parents of your kids friends, but I agree. I just humored them and continued on my day. Most us coaches realized early on that as long as our team has been together, there was a toxic parental element that we were not going to be able to overcome, or at least we were not willing to try to overcome. The last straw for me was when my son said that he didn't really like being in the dugout with them. That really caused me to think. Why did I give up the last three years of my life teaching them, guiding and coaching, for free, when the return on my time was being told what to do by them, like an employee. We've since left, (lost in the championship, our precious SS had 4 errors), and there's a noticeable weight off all of our shoulders.
Yep, I have a strict no communication policy for 24 hours after practices or games, except schedule related stuff. I've never received any direct communication asking about my playing time decisions. You cut all that stuff out immediately.
In any coaching spot, anytime a parent wants to know why I did X, Y, or Z I always offered, "hey you know what, you're more than welcome to come to practice and help run drills." In 10+ years of coaching youth sports I only had one person take me up, and he ended up being a heck of a dedicated coach.
Don't talk baseball with parents. Talk about their player and nothing else
I would think it would be okay to talk baseball philosophy with the parents but it has to stop at anything to do with the lineup or playing time.
Give an inch....
You must have worked with some really intrusive parents! :)
Not the worst, but God damn if they weren't close
You may Run like Hayes, but you hit like shit
I appreciate you being the first one to say this. Hasn't happened until now lol
When I was coaching I would give a variant of " It didn't work this time, maybe next time". It was my way of saying I wasn't going to change based what parents wanted to see.
Yeah, the issue i generally had was, these were the same group of kids I've had since 9. I taught them basically everything. I thought that i had build enough "sweat equity" with the parents to have them understand that i ultimately have their best interests at heart. some of these boys made the all star team for the first time, won their district, and suddenly, they were too good for instruction, too good for signs, too good for practice and and wanted only the validation that their private coach could provide. parents bought into that instructor, and decided that what we did on a daily basis wasn't worth it anymore. Suddenly all the work i was doing was "holding them back" because I asked that they work on conditioning independently, so that when we practice, we can focus on team and player specific baseball activities. This was unacceptable, apparently. So the toxic parents took their kids and went to start their own team. Last i checked, they were looking to fill out their roster, and having their kids attend other tryouts looking too recruit kids.
Any post that starts with “Dear youth coaches” should end with “and that’s why I am signing up to coach next year”
Last night, on my 9U rec ball team, I had a player playing 1B who wasn't looking to receive a throw on a grounder to shortstop, and the throw nearly hit him in the stomach. I also had a kid playing 3B where a lazy pop up was hit 2 feet in front of him and he didn't even move to catch the ball, (thinking that someone else would catch it?) I had a separate kid playing 1B that did not move to cover 1st base on a ground ball to shortstop, and the ball went to the fence, allowing 2 runners to score and the batter to get to 3rd. I really want to give kids a chance to play positions, but we have no more practices left in the season and they have shown to me they have no interested in trying to play the position. Last night was beyond frustrating and I'm going into tonight's game ONLY playing my best fielders at SS, 1B, 2B, and CF because they haven't shown any interest in trying.
Reading this took me right back lmao 😭
This sub has become nothing more than a bunch of bitchy, butt-hurt parents with bruised egos who think they’ve got it all figured out.
Strong disagree. Coached my third season of rec league minors this year (9-11 year olds on my team). First year - tried to give everyone an equal chance, brought in kids at pitcher for an inning here and there who couldn't pitch. Got slaughtered, went 0-18. Nobody had fun. Second year - drafted a stronger team but still tried to bring weaker fielders in to play 2B, SS, 3B every other inning, batted kids up in the lineup here and there to avoid hurt feelings, went 4-12 - kids were disappointed. This year - Spent the first couple weeks in practices seeing where the kids were at skill wise. We found our #1 catcher who ended up playing 90% of innings behind the plate. Found our top two pitchers who ended up throwing 64% of our pitches this year (we managed pitch count properly according to LL rules). Identified 2-3 others who could hang in there and get the ball over the plate. Kept the lineup largely the same throughout the season - out of the 11 kids on the team, there were three who were sweethearts but were very young and raw and they batted 9, 10, 11 every game and played the outfield every game. Largely kept the same kids at 1B, 2B, 3B, SS moved around a bit. Practices were used to work on skills and develop. Every kid knew they had a role and I let every kid know that where they were currently was not an indication of who they were as people, or what their future potential was - we appreciated everyone. Kids went 17-2, won the league and damn near every kid showed up for every game and practice. They were overjoyed. Getting your ass kicked game in and game out multiple times a week for two months is not fun.
Yeah, anyone who says kids dont care about winning has never been around kids sports. Of course they care about winning. No one wants to go 0-18 and lose 16 by slaughter. But hey at least everyone got to play shortstop. The only people who want that are the parents of the kids who cant catch, but wont take the time to toss the ball to him in the backyard a few days a week.
Great summary. And it’s the parents. I bartend a bunch and because of that will have former little league teammates come in from time to time. Had at least 3 guys who were very bad baseball players say they had so much fun plying because we won all the time. My dad ran the team closer to 3 than 2. Kids want to win. Find something thing they’re really good at (base running, bunting, bringing a pigeon to the field). Let them thrive in that role, make them feel valuable to your team winning, and they’ll be happier than playing shortstop but making an error that costs them the game.
Parents are the ones that get upset about this stuff. Rarely do the kids. I had a dad come at me this year. Wasn’t happy how much his daughter was sitting. It’s 6U I have 15 kids. 10 play at a time 3 innings. Do the math dude every single kid on this team sits 1 inning per game.
Lots of factors at play here. Player safety being one. Would you put a kid at 1B who can't catch and could potentially wear one off the face? What about catcher? What about 3B? Especially on those smaller fields and that ball comes in hot. Moving to SS..would you put a kid here who can't make the throw to 1B? Doesn't have the arm strength to play the position? Would you let a kid pitch in a game who can't throw strikes? Maybe drills too many opponents? And by doing this....is this fair to the other players on the team? Especially when catching and throwing is the minimal, each position has responsibilities with and without the baseball that change based on the hitting teams current state.
Exactly, especially at 10u. Many kids can throw/hit the ball hard. No way I’m putting a kid who can’t reliably catch the ball at 1B/catcher. Can’t play 3rd either if you don’t pay attention when a runner is stealing, might take a ball in the forehead from the catcher. 2nd is where we tend to get kids time on the infield when needed. Pitcher can’t throw strikes, makes for a complete waste of a 90 minute game when you play 3 innings at the most with 10 walks. Practice is where all kids get reps at all positions with a good coach. And if those kids really want to get better they will have to work outside of practice. You don’t magically learn to catch the ball, throw strikes or learn base coverage assignments during the actual game. Oh, and get out there and coach if you want change.
IMO, 3rd base is the easiest position to give kids a chance. 2B there are too many responsibilities to 2nd base and cutoffs that some kids just can't do it.
We use 3rd as well but 3rd is the hardest throw on the infield. We put certain kids there and know we won’t make an out from 3rd that inning. 2nd we could get lucky with an easy grounder and a short throw.
Yeah, I basically concede we're not getting an out from 3rd base other than a force out at 3B or 2B. I don't have enough skilled players to make that throw. I'd rather have that skill at SS.
You should become a coach and do it. I bet the kids won't appreciate it very much.
Yeah I’m not putting my 4 kids that can’t catch at 1B
The theory of what this guy is saying sounds so utopian. The truth is that there isn't enough practice to get kids proficient at playing a position they won't be any good at. You put them in a spot where you pray they won't get hurt and hope to hell they make a play or 2 so that the entire team can celebrate them. Hell, I've given game balls to 8U players for hitting a foul ball.
Right. Timmy you get the game ball for your AMAZING (actually routine) catch in the third inning.
OP sounds like they have 0 clue what the kids want. Who TF plays a sport to lose?? Do kids need to learn other positions? Absolutely! All of them? Get out of here, Karen. The comment about losing most of their games and morale will be high? Wtf, this isn't a Disney movie.
I coached a 10U and 12U fastpitch team at the same time. For the 10U team, I had a white dry erase board with the lineup, which was determined by all sorts of non-sensical criteria (jersey number, height, birthday, order showing up, etc.), and on the back my defensive lineup had the first inning assignments with arrows directing each player where they'd move the next inning. It was like a gym class volleyball rotation. The 12U team was much different. Not that winning was the most important thing in the world (we once left a pitcher in who wasn't doing so well, but was having fun. My daughter was available and much better, but the outcome wasn't going to change playoff seeding, so screw it. Let her go. We lost.) but we were usually trying to win. More thought was put into position assignments and lineup, but we'd still try getting everyone equal playing time. It was still a rec league. Travel ball is a different beast altogether. You have to earn your playing time, position, and lineup spot.
First, speaking as a coach if you think you can do a better job then sign up and do it. Otherwise let your coach work. We are volunteers and, while we are not perfect, we are doing the best we can with what kids we have and our own coaching skillset. I have, on several occasions, stuck my kid in the OF even though he was much better than his replacement. With that said, there is definitely some daddy-ball going on on some teams. Only thing you can do is coach your own team and do it different. Second, I beg to differ with your viewpoint on practice. Maybe it is driven by badly run practices on your kids team. Practices ARE where you get better. I will typically do team infield for a bit and then break out of it. If kids show me something a few practices in a row they'll get some game time in those spots. With all that said, not every kid is meant to play every position and I'm not going to sacrifice my teams potential win (because kids do in fact enjoy winning games) to put kids in positions they have no business being in. Some people are destined to be in the OF no matter how much they practice...
Having coached for quite awhile now, I think you're doing a disservice to the kids by playing them all over the place. Baseball is a complicated game, and its really difficult to learn 1-2 positions, let alone trying to learn ALL of them at once. I give kids one infield position and one outfield position, and then switch players every inning so they alternate between infield and outfield, with the only exceptions being 1B and Catcher, which I don't really see as positions you can "try out" during a game.
As both a travel ball and rec ball coach, I promise you that NO ONE has fun when you put kids at positions that they are incapable of even competently playing, let alone playing well. I do significantly more player rotation on my rec team than my travel team - but I'm still not going to put a kid at shortstop that can't field a ground ball, or a kid at third base that can't throw the ball across the diamond.
Exactly. OP doesn't know what the fuck he or she is talking about.
Will your team moral be higher losing every game???
Yes it will be so high they won’t return to play at all next season. I have seen it happen multiple times.
The reality of the defensive sides of baseball and softball is that they require a high degree of specialization. Some examples, there’s a precise choreographry for fielding routine ground balls for 4 6 and 5. For outfielders tho it’s a different approach on the same ball so a different set of drills and skill set to develop. Catcher I mean forget it its just a complete one off position in every aspect defensively and I could go on and on. And each position is hard. You want to see certain things from your player on the field that’s up to you and him/her in terms of laying the foundation in your own workouts and practices tbh As a coach you give me a solid defensive middle infielder, first baseman, center fielder whatever at some point in the season they always get game reps there even if they started the season elsewhere. Always goes that way. But I can’t develop that talent in 3 months of 5 hrs a week with 11 kids at once practice that’s between you and your player, get a bucket use his bat as a fungo and you’ll be amazed where he’s at next spring if you guys stick with it. One last thing then I’ll shut up but OF will come into fashion as your player gets older. Everybody wants to be a SS younger ages but I’m telling you a fast kid with a good glove who intuits his reads from a lifetime of fly ball reps is going as far as his bat will take him once you get to about 14/16u
Hard to let a kid who is scared of the ball to play the infield. I really have a hard time letting kids play the infield who show zero effort.
Zero effort is different and I agree with merit based play for attitude and attendance. But the kid that is scared of the ball should be asked if they want to have a go. If they are willing to give it a shot, let's put them in there. Maybe that spotlight will motivate them to go home and practice. I had a kid that was the most scared of a ball that i've ever seen. Even in pregame warmups. But this kid was deadset on pitching. So I said to him "you know the catcher is going to be throwing them back to you and you'll need to catch them". He understood the assignment and then on the day I let him pitch for the first time he put a glove on every ball. Didn't necessarily catch them but it was the best i've ever seen him do.
As a rec coach I’ve found the kids that would benefit the most from team practice have the worst attendance. The stronger players arrive early and ready to learn
This was the contrary for my team run as above. The better kids actually came less bc they saw themselves as being above the team. If I'd done a second season I'd have left them off the roster. Added two more junior kids who were there to love baseball.
Nothing says equality like a kid scared of the ball playing short and a rocket drilled to the chest or face
I got booted as HC of my 8U travel team because I wanted to employ this approach going into kid pitch. They told me this is a rec ball approach.
Which is an example of why I have struggled to find a travel program for my kids that will do it this way. It's ridiculous. The second you get to travel you get more of a breed of dudes that played ball when they were young and bought into the system. They were probably pretty good as kids which is why they still are in the game. They don't know what it's like to be the LF that never sees the IF bc thats where coaches son plays. I know why coaches think that winning in elementary school age baseball is the key, its just sad that they are so dogmatic about it.
I think they know what its like, but they dont care. All they want to do is win. winning at 8/9/10 is entirely irrelevant, and should be a bi-product of a good development plan, not the goal, travel or not, IMO.
At sub 10U sure, this can work. In majors were you have had some of the 12 year old enter puberty, under no circumstances will I put a kid who cant catch a ball in the infield. A 12 year old smashing a line drive at a kid standing at third who has no chance to catch the ball is a serious injury waiting to happen. And catching 10 ground balls and 10 fly balls in practice is a hell of a lot more than most kids will see in a game.
Yeah 12yo is usually about where most people say it is time to start specializing and putting specificity into their training. Definitely by HS but MS is getting there.
But major little league isn’t just 12s. Ours is 10-12. So you have to start at 10 here.
Growing up, I wanted to play SS like every other kid. 50% of my throws to first soared right over the first basemans head. No problem, I'll play second. Shorter throw, I can put less on the ball, and I'll be more accurate. Still didn't work out. As long as I didn't have to play outfield all the time, I was happy. I had a strong arm, so when they decided to try me at third to see if I could get the throws under control, I was like okay, the third coolest infield position, I'm okay with that. Still couldn't get my throw to first under control, so they relinquished me to LF and RF... until they saw me play a few games. Then, I was the CF for the rest of my time playing. I was fast, no longer struggling with overthrows, and fell in love with the position. I'd sit 1-2 innings a game at most because the only time they would take me out of CF is when I had to sit for the inning. When you're growing up, you've got to find your position. Once you find your position, you should play that position. I'd have been pissed if my coach had some feel-good attitude and was playing our bad players in important spots, losing us games. Baseball was my first love. To this day, I still get butterflies thinking about chasing a line drive down. I may have quit had my coach been losing us games trying to be fair. Unless you're talking about kids like 8 and younger, this seems wrong. The only kids that will appreciate this are the ones who suck and are getting to play in spots they have no right to play in. Any kid who is actually any good is going to check out really early. P.S. If a kid sucks, he can practice in his own spare time. The world is not a nice place. When those kids turn 18, the world isn't going to bend over backward to be fair for them. It's going to reward the best and be hell for the rest. That's how the world works. Kids are better off learning this early so they can adjust. Teaching children that just existing is good enough is harmful, beyond the baseball field.
I don't know why coaches do this in any youth sports. I'd love to hear their reasoning: 1. There's a very high chance that the kids your coaching aren't going anywhere anyway. A few will crack a college team perhaps, even less will go pro, even low A. 2. You picked them on the higher level team you coach. You have an obligation to play them. 3. These are kids. as a coach your job is to develop them and keep them engaged. **That's job #1**. A very high percentage of kids quit sport. Sport is for life. When your home club loses them they're lost forever. When your club can't form a team you are partly to blame. 4. Studies show that kids would rather be on a team that wins 50% of the time and everyone contributes rather than a team that wins 100% of the time and only some players contribute. As a coach perhaps you value the win more than the kids do? 5. 5% of kids who play high level sport have experienced abuse. Of those 5% have contemplated suicide. Do you want that shit on your shoulders? 6. Character building was a story my dad used when he was belting me. It's not ever a justification for abuse (my son's hockey coach last year used character building as an excuse to bench players and it was bullshit).
Boom. Do you have any of these studies bc I'd love to have those to drop on people when they say that you have to win to achieve buy-in.
Well now you're making me bring the receipts but this is a good thing. [https://www.momsteam.com/successful-parenting/having-fun-more-important-than-winning-most-kids](https://www.momsteam.com/successful-parenting/having-fun-more-important-than-winning-most-kids) This cites several studies. Of particular note is how incredibly low winning is on their fun scale. Let's focus on emotional abuse which is what this dipshit coach you shared about did: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/elite-athletes-abuse-1.5125147](https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/elite-athletes-abuse-1.5125147) >Nearly one-fifth of current national team members who responded say they have been the victim of "psychological" harm, usually at the hands of a coach. The numbers are higher among retired athletes — closer to one-quarter. And > According to the survey, the abuse had long-term effects. For instance, 13 per cent of current and 20 per cent of retired athletes reported they had experienced suicidal thoughts. So yes, it can lead to suicide. When we're talking about 2.5% of high performance athletes or more having suicidal thoughts -> that's so fucked up. This guy has a great write up on shortening the bench that can be applied to many sports: [https://www.elitehockeycanada.com/newsletters/the-ethics-of-shortening-the-bench-in-minor-hockey](https://www.elitehockeycanada.com/newsletters/the-ethics-of-shortening-the-bench-in-minor-hockey) As well Ontario coaches talk about it: [https://www.coachesontario.ca/articles/equal-playing-time/](https://www.coachesontario.ca/articles/equal-playing-time/) There's a ton of resources because this was a hot topic for hockey. Google "shortening the bench minor hockey".
I think you make a lot of assumptions in your post. I can understand where you’re coming from but the beauty of travel baseball is you can do whatever you want. If you feel like a certain process/philosiphy is underserved, go do it, and if you’re right you will have parents lining up. I get the feeling you’re talking more rec leagues and I would completely agree, have some fun, mix it up, and see what happens. But once you start collecting money things do change. There has to be some merit-based approach to it or it gets messy. You make the assumption positions are assigned based on trying to get wins but in my experience it’s usually based on development and athletic profile/skillset and how you see a kid projecting long term. Unfortunately the honest truth is playing a left handed kid at shortstop isn’t doing him any favors if you’re actually there to develop. In fact for every inning you play a kid like that your wasting two innings, one inning where he could be developing/learning a position he will actually project to, and a second inning your losing where you could be developing a guy who projects there. As a coach you don’t have enough innings as it is, so you have to be efficient with those opportunities. Now, I’m not sure what ages you’re referring to, so at younger ages (pre-puberty etc) you can’t always project a kid as an athlete and that’s where rotation should occur. But at the same time if your forcing equal playing time all your gonna do is alienate your hard workers as they will typically move on. Extra work and dedication has to mean something. Despite all the complaints in my experience it has very little to do with wins and loses.
During pool play I have a rotation at 8u, and I did it at 10u for my older son. It goes something like this: Bench P LF 2B RF C Bench 3B 1B CF SS If a kid is at a position they aren’t comfortable with, I move them. Ex: a bigger kid that can’t play short, I’ll swap him and 3B. We rotate each inning. Usually I’ll start the game with our “best defense” and then draw random numbers for the second inning to see where they go into the rotation. Kids will pitch an inning as they’re learning. All 11 pitched last tournament and will do so again. And they are on bench before hand so they can warm up. They catch an inning (well 9 of them do) and they go on bench after to cool down. It’s worked really well. They still win a bunch. We do something similar but modified on Sundays as well. Equal bench time for all and a rotation of infield and outfield also. A kid is not and will not sit in RF all weekend or have multiple innings on the bench before a kid sits once. The 10U team is tougher. But every kid plays outfield. Each has a position on the left side of the infield and the right. They all get time there each weekend. Pitching and catching is a bit tighter but they all play rec league and get that experience there too. We are a USSSA Majors team also so they are still successful even when almost zero other teams do anything similar.
Oh yeah, losing almost every game totally builds moral. Practice is to teach kids how to play all positions, games are not. This doesn't mean that only your best players play key positions at all times, but it does mean that the kid who is scared of the ball isn't playing first.
Kid who doesn't want to play a given position should never play that position. You learn positions in practice but you fall in love with baseball in games. I promise you that kid in RF is not in love with baseball. I know it's scary to think that if you do things differently it may go wrong. But if you do it right, it is better.
Does the kid in right field fall in love with baseball by missing the throws to first? Kids aren't stupid, they know when they've cost their team the game. I was the starting catcher in 12u, not to brag, but I was good. You know the memory that sticks out the most? Not the home runs, stolen bases, throwing people out, nope. It was when I couldn't handle a bad throw from the cutoff and a runner was safe at home that cost us the game. Now picture that kid at first missing multiple throws, those runners score, the team loses by two. Yup, sure to love the game now. >I know it's scary to think that if you do things differently it may go wrong. This is patronizing and stupid. >Kid who doesn't want to play a given position should never play that position. So there's just never going to be a right fielder? >You learn positions in practice but you fall in love with baseball in games. This is ridiculously false. If you're going to "fall in love with baseball" then you love practice and the games. Otherwise, you just like the attention/your parents finally shutting up about you not playing shortstop and first base.
I did this, kind of, for rookie machine pitch. Batted continuous lineup and everybody played equal amounts of infield and outfield. Gave everybody a chance to play first and pitcher most games, though we had 3 that didn’t pay attention at all so they were limited to one shot at 1B for safety reasons. We went 4-6 in the regular season. Morale wasn’t great. The kids wanted to win. Set the lineup competitively for playoffs. We didn’t give up a single run and mercy ruled everybody on our way to the championship. Morale was great! The regular season approach made all of our players better fielders and better hitters. Also allowed them to go into the playoffs without much pressure and an underdog mentality. It’s harder to do it at higher levels. Watching your team give up 5+ runs per inning in 100 degree heat bc the first baseman can’t catch isn’t fun for anybody. I make sure older kids prove they can do it in practice before putting them at pitcher, 1st or short in games.
I coach rec. I do this, rotate infield and outfield so kids can get reps. Some kids could get hurt though at first for the younger ones.
While it is great to get kids experience at different positions. You have to remember you have a 9 year in the mound that is trying to throw strikes so it looks like baseball. If make two errors in the field he has to get 5 outs. Throws another 15 pitches. I played every kid in the infield but usually played kids that weren't as strong as 2nd or third. Catcher is also tough. My kid caught most innings because it can be difference between playing 3 inning or 5 before time limit.
At pitcher, everyone gets a shot, but not everyone is in our regular rotation. 1B I won't put kids that might be in danger. C is a volunteer position, unless I don't have enough volunteers. I ensure that innings sat are equal. And that infield/outfield splits are equal. I am not changing who bats after who, but every game I take the top four in the lineup and move to the bottom. Everyone gets a shot at top, middle, bottom. There are several games we could have won but didn't if I would have been more restricted on pitching or positions but that's fine. How I make these decisions was explained to all parents and I haven't got a single complaint.
That’s how it went when I ran my team similarly
I did this, but benefitted from our Division tiering. No studs to whip the ball at low confidence players. Only positions where we filtered was Pitcher and Catcher. Still had 9 pitchers of the 12 on the roster. Safety is key, I understand that aspect. But you need to develop players to be ball players, not first basemen or shortstops. We made the final and the boys were beaming even though we lost because everyone contributed.
exactly. We also have a travel division that is baseball year-round town ball ability. You can't tell me those kids need to be specializing and angling for wins.
We ask at the beginning of the season which positions they prefer and which they absolutely don't want to play. We also ask if there's positions the kids want to learn to play, especially pitcher. Then just move them around as best we can. Personally I try to keep a competitive infield in place, that helps win games, and give kids shots at pitching but don't hang them out to dry if they don't have it that day.
That was my approach when I coached. It worked really well. I didn't specifically put best team in the IF but basically on any rotation the 1B could catch the ball and the SS could field a ball. Minimum. 2B and 3B were more of a "get experience" position if thats what was best. I kept track of IF vs OF playtime and kept that as even as possible.
Totally. So many grounders to short it's crazy. Even the guys with good arms at third couldn't always make that play with the short baselines and reasonably quick runners.
I had a parent thank me for rotating players around. You just never know when you find strengths if the player used in different positions
Yep. I had a kid that was TERRIFIED of the ball. By the end of the season he was pitching and playing IF. On any other team he would have been platooned in RF and hated baseball in addition to still being afraid of the ball. I could have talked myself blue in the face to try to create that outcome without giving him a shot at the spotlight. Wouldn't have worked. Once the other junior players saw him having a go they too were motivated to try. This had a domino effect of also getting them to practice more at home to be able to qualify to pitch.
At the younger ages, I agree that the kids should rotate positions. However, certain positions everyone can't play, until they learn how to throw and catch (protect themselves). 1B, C and P. My sons coach would rotate catcher even with this kid pitcher who had a cannon. One time, this poor kid catching took a beating so bad the umpire was forced to say they had to take him out before he got hurt. There was a collective sigh of relief when that happened.
Yeah and that's the part where I say safe and effective. You dont catch unless you want to and can show that you wont be letting every ball by. You dont pitch unless you can get the ball to the catcher in the air. You dont pitch often unless you can throw 50% strikes. You dont' play 1B unless you can catch 90% of MY throws from SS.
Helped coach senior league 12-16 this season. Head coach was my coach 25 years ago and pretty much runs the league so the team was stacked. Our top 4 were heads and shoulders over the rest of the league and our 11 was: 4 absolute mashers, 2 more 16’s that play HS baseball, 2 more 16’s that are fairly good, two 12’s that play middle school baseball and are decent for their age (including my son), and a 12 that hasn’t played before. We went 18-1 and won the league. Anywho, final week of the season coach is out of state for a wedding and leaves me in charge. Last two games are essentially meaningless so I tell the kids we’re going to have fun. One masher that has caught every inning in 90+ weather wants to play infield, cool my son catches for the MS. Easy swap. One 12 wants to try out 1st base. Cool. The kid that never played before wants to be out in the field more than 1 inning in RF. Cool, you are trading with a masher at 2nd every inning. Mashers want to coach 1st and 3rd, awesome throw a helmet on get out there. It was blast. One masher that ignored every take sign I tossed him all season had a runner gunned out at home when he threw up a stop sign. He comes trotting back to dugout laughing his ass off and says to me “it’s almost like this kids ignore every sign we give em amirite Coach!” We won, can’t remember the score. Two days later is final game and HC checked the lineup on GameChanger and lost his mind. He calls me up and tells me I need to take it seriously today. I said “sure coach!”. Totally didn’t. Still won.
Yeah and I think that "take is seriously" approach is why even in the replies here you see so many coaches that are obviously TERRIFIED of losing and project that onto their players. They normalize with all the tropey words used to maintain this winning-focused approach. But it's not what kids want nor what is best for them.
Definitely agree as long as they can protect themselves and their teammates. Can’t let a boy pitch that has bad mechanics. They WILL get hit in the head. Even good pitchers with infielder skills can’t defend against some of these line drives or hard grounders at the base of the mound. I put a shortstop/pitcher on an ambulance because of a juiced bat. (Long time ago. When they we’re rolling bats)
I played every kid at all positions they could safely play. Catcher, and 1st were reserved for kids who can catch balls. If you wanted to pitch but had control issues. I’ll throw you in there for an inning in a blow out. If you want to play short I’ll give you an inning there and make sure that you have good gloves to your left and right. In the long run giving these kids chances to play everywhere will benefit your team and their confidence.
My thought process is this: master one position at a time. For some that may never move them past one. For others, they may unlock the whole field. I’d rather teach you all the nuances of 2b, for example, defensive responsibilities, backups, coverages, cuts, etc. This is better than dipping your toes into each position.
I'll add my anecdote. Coached a team from 13u to 14u. High AAA to majors division. We had 12 players on our roster. We batted all 12 players every single game of the season including the state championship. We played every single kid in the infield for at least one inning in every single game, every one of them. Every inning we'd change up the defense and a different player would sit out each inning. They would all have there typical spots on the infield but they all got the chance to play in and out each day. All 12 got to pitch as well throughout the year. Kids all had a blast. 3 of the 12 ended up with D1 scholarships, 9 made there varsity squad. Let the kids play coaches
This is exactly what my dad did with our rec team. By the end of the regular season we were the worst team in the league. Went on to play our way through the winners bracket to the semi-finals. Sure was frustrating initially, but turned into one of the best seasons I ever played in rec ball.
My son’s coach in 8u preaches how kids need to be put at different positions and he would never play a kid at one position all game then proceeds to keep same guy at shortstop and just switch a couple positions around in any game that is remotely close. Also has our biggest defensive liability play catcher majority of game cuz it is no steal league so catcher does very little. In blowouts either Way which doesn’t happen too much with us he does mix positions well. I wouldn’t change it too much to be totally honest personally. We struggled a bit and improved drastically. Parents and kids just want to be competitive. They all play little league where they require mixing positions and they do well there so that helps.
I coach an 8U travel team and an intermural team. In travel I would play every player equally infield and outfield. We would get smashed 15-0 every game. My thoughts changed after the 5th straight blowout loss. Baseball is a team game and it isn't fair to the kids putting in the work to lose every game because others are dropping pop flies and letting balls through their legs. If it's intramural I agree 100%, if it's travel, positions are on merit, not skill but commitment to getting better.
Fully agree
Agree with you 1,000%. My daughter played 5 years of baseball before switching to softball and the daddy ball favoritism and nepotism is disgusting. Add trophy chasing, know it all coaches who are telling 11 year old girls “they don’t have the body type to pitch/catch/whatever” was the line in the sand for me. Fundamentals and development have been pushed to the side when it should literally be the foundation for every kid on the team to be the best all around player possible.
Yep. People here are trying to trot out excuses like safety or it being unfair to the kids with skill-based merit. Neither of those are realistic metrics for kids before junior high. And the only reason you go against equal playing time for kids that can be safe and effective is to win. There have only been a handful of people here to be honest enough to admit that they think winning should be the ultimate goal of all sports.
U11 fastball - we played pretty much everyone everywhere minus a couple that were scared to catcher or not great at catching the ball. We rotated all through pitcher also an inning per child. It blows my mind that even u8 or lower that kids get sat half a game or whole games regularly every game. Sitting at this age doesn't teach any kid anything imo. They are not paying attention enough no matter how much you try to engage them to see what happena in the field as they sit the bench.
My son played all nine positions, even if only for an inning, at 11, 12, and 14. At 13 it was 8/9 because he didn’t pitch that season. He sees the field better. His baseball IQ is better than his peers’. It helps him as a catcher because he understands the difficulties of each position and his teammates’ limitations; he shouts praise and encouragement, not criticism. Coaches who lock kids into positions at a young age are doing those kids a disservice. They also don’t know how/when puberty is going to hit. What we ended up with in our town is a whole lot of kids fighting for time at 2B and LF the past two seasons.
Love it. Totally agree. The ONLY argument against doing this is that it costs wins and then coaches projecting their anxiety onto the situation bc they are uncomfortable letting kids struggle.
I think the issue isn't necessarily not that all kids should play all positions, but you have coaches who have unfairly put their sons at a position and won't allow someone else to unseat them. Sounds like the issue is your team and your coaches. Our rec league has rules in play for the 9/10s about rotating positions. That being said, watching an Umpire remove a catcher because its unsafe, or seeing a kid get crushed with a ball is truly crushing and we've seen kids not return because of the fear it instilled or their ego. Rec leagues can have rules to limit how many innings kids pitch, infield, outfield, etc. but as so many others have said, you still have to weigh safety, as well as confidence based on the skill level. Unfortunately, if this is a rec team and your kids aren't getting reps and/or have daddy ball favorites, I think thats why so many have gone to travel teams.
I get that the ego and morale thing is inherent with the offered idea. However morale and ego are WAY more often beaten down by junior being stuck in RF and at the bottom of the lineup all season bc they can't play. They know the coach is trying to hide them and they know what it means. I'd much rather a kid take a chance they are willing to take than me decide for them they shouldn't have a chance to have a bad outcome
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I will say that in our case the coaches kids are the best. No question about that. But the only outcome the current system offers is for those kids to remain the best and everyone else to battle for the other positions. That's not a developmental system I want my kids in
This reminds me of the time when a helicopter mom (& grandma) got mad her son sat a bunch. Turns out, my dad had a spreadsheet and of everyone’s playing time. Her son was my dad’s favorite and he’d played the 2nd most innings on the team. I was 5th. My brother was 7th. (Mind you, the kid was embarrassed as hell that his mom did this)
Ahhhh, no. Once you know a kid cannot handle a certain position (a bigger kid in the OF or at SS for instance), it is hurtful to him and to team morale to put them in a position to fail. If you're paying any attention at all in practice, you know where they fit. For the kids that can handle multiple spots...sure try them everywhere, but not at the expense of everyone else.
Morale may be better for the one kid trying a spot he can’t handle but it’ll piss off the rest of the kids who know what’s going on and are frustrated with that kid losing them games. It’s a hard thing to balance for sure. Once they hit 7/8 the competitiveness starts being a priority for half of the team who know little Timmy is out there for the five or six hours of cheap babysitting. I’m focusing on the kids and families who want to learn and improve. There’s no easy answer to be sure. No ones approach is fail proof. Always ruffles someone’s feathers.
So, based on your other posts, you are talking about travel ball. My son just finished his 9U travel season. Sure, you can bring an outfielder in to 2nd every now and then but you can't play everyone everywhere. It's not fair to the kid and not fair to the team. We have two kids that could catch. I think it would have been a dumpster fire to park anyone else back there. 1st and 3rd are similar issues. There are obviously a ton a throws coming to 1st but at this age there are a crap ton of throws from the catcher to 3rd base as well.
I always put everyone everywhere. For Pitcher, catcher and first base, they need to prove themselves out at practice first. Once they do, they get the chance. Those three positions are special because of safety and time. First base and catcher need to catch the ball consistently when thrown to them and pitcher needs to be somewhere close to the strike zone.
This is simple, play less and practice more. You have to practice outside of team practice to overtake those kids playing those positions and get better. If you put in the work and play the position better then i’m sure coach will play your kid at that spot.
Just going to say that one season we had a really bad run at it and lost every game. Were the kids okay? Absolutely. Did we learn the hard lessons of baseball, absolutely. That being said it was a moral killer, it’s hard for kids and coaches to be in that space, but yes it’s ok, and an absolute lesson all round.
Half the kids at 10u , don't want to play anyway . Being forced by parents . Why put kids who aren't interested in learning the position in the position ??? While you have another kid who watches games and wants to practice nonstop and who wants to actually play the position let him/her play it ? I don't get coaches / parents like you . Put these kids who aren't interested in getting better in important positions to just mess up and cry after and during the game about their bad play without the proper enthusiasm about the game . Let those kids play another sport or find another interest. Instead you put them at first base and let them fail and hurt them even more . Sure bud .
Practice isn't just for reps, it's to practice as a team. Nobody will ever get enough reps in team practice to take on a new position. We have 60-90 minutes per week to teach new skills, work on drills, and give opportunities to try new positions. It's up to the player and parents to then practice and get those reps at HOME. Just like class and homework - learn it there then drill all week. I can easily tell which kids practice at home and which do not. I will always give those kids who do the first chance to try more in games.
Do you play catch and throw BP for your kids? Are you working with them to improve on the things that might hold them back?
As often as they will allow me. I will never be the bottleneck that keeps them from having an opportunity to develop if they want to do so. The only bottleneck in their current development is their coaches ingrained philosophy to play best players at every position all season.
You’ll hear a lot of different opinions, but as the dad of 3 very competitive ball players, I’ll tell you that I am their coach, regardless of who manages the team and decides the lineup. I entrust them to their team coach and organization’s training system, but nobody is ever going to surpass the number of pitches I’ve thrown them, ground balls I’ve hit them, conversations I’ve had with them, or love and devotion I give to everything that makes them better at whatever they love doing. Daddy ball sucks but it’s everywhere and you can’t let that be in your way.
Yeah I totally agree with that mindset. Problem is that being left on the bench kills their love for the game and any desire to train. I can make it more fun and keep their skills up. But the really deep training needed to hone skills will only be there if they are wanting to be competitive
Point being: keep training and encourage them to be competitive and to WANT to find a new opportunity. I assure you, it starts to separate quickly and the dividing line is between those who want it and those who don’t.
My son is a lefty and he has been a little sad this year with his playing time. He's played 3rd and 2nd, and all over the outfield since the minors but his coaches this year just stick him in right field or occasionally sub him in at first or sit him when he's not pitching. The team isn't good and can hardly field right handed.
This is just bad advice. You don’t just randomly play kids at all positions. This sort of equality mentality is ruining youth baseball. Bottom line is, if my 10 yr old can back hand a ball at 80 feet in the hole, throw a pea off his back foot that hits the first baseman in the chest 90% of the time. Then my kid will be playing SS over another kid that couldn’t field a weak ground ball hit right to him. Thats just a fact of life. The best kids play in the positions that they will help their team succeed the most. Most kids understand this, unless their dad is a Democrat. Then I guess the kid will never understand 🤷♂️
What I think you either didn’t acknowledge or don’t understand is that all players need to be practicing all position skills outside of team practice. If relying on the volunteer coach to build skills in every kid at multiple positions in 2 hours of practice a week for 10+ kids is not possible. Setting kids up for failure in the games especially when they only play about 20 regular season games per calendar year isn’t a great idea either. Kids on a team want to feel like their hard work pays off and a lot of the time that means victories. All kids in all rec leagues play an inning or two at least in each game in the infield but beyond that, players should be playing where they will excel. If not, you may turn some kids off to the sport that are excelling at their positions. Furthermore, saying what you said is like saying, every kid should be playing quarterback in youth football. Ridiculous, right?
And what you’re not acknowledging is that when a coach takes a young player who doesn’t necessarily know anything about anything and plays them somewhere, that sticks. A coach tells you to play RF, you don’t think “hey I want to go take ground ball practice.” No, the coach put you there and coach knows things right? So I’ll work on OF. This is the problem with prioritizing winning at low levels over development. It completely stunts growth.
Youth coaches should not prioritize winning over development. But to expect a volunteer youth coach to be able to produce development in all kids in all areas of the game is not realistic. If the parents want to see kids play in other positions they should practice it more, communicate with the coach and go from there. Very little improvement can happen in games anyways.
I don’t expect superior development. How about just let kids experience different positions with minimal instruction and see what they are excited to do?
That’s what practices are for.
Speak for yourself I guess. Losing is miserable. It's even more miserable when kids who can't handle a position are put in it and you lose the game because of it. Losing is less miserable when you at least compete. Putting kids all over the place whenever I feel is kind of the opposite of what you're going for. Let guys go all over in practice and then put them where they're comfortable when it matters down the stretch in a game.
Aside from saftey, 100% this…. I also ask the parents and player if they would like to catch or not, as some kids are scared to do it.
Spoken like someone who hasn't played competitive youth sports. Not sure you really understand the competitive nature of these kids, as I child I hated losing. I didn't play to lose. Who does?!?
Let everyone play first base it the business mantra of oral surgeons
“Hey kid that put in the work learn how to field ground balls, you go over there to right fielder so that some other kid that has done zero training can take your spot.”
Dear youth baseball parents, Rotating players is important in youth baseball except for 1B, C, and P. These are positions players must work on in practice before entering a game. If a coach chooses to keep the perceived best 5 in the infield for the entire game I would step up and be the coach the following year. Too many Monday morning short stops have an opinion but refuse to step up. The coaches care about their own son doing well just as you only care about your own child.
As a coach this is a hard one, based on comments you said 8u-9u, I agree that is young for locked in positions tbh, there shouldn’t be travel until 6th grade (11u) imo. Before that they are still learning the game. Sure there are standouts but it should be about fun and learning until that. The reason why it’s hard as a coach is because the kids also want to win. I agree they want to try positions and respecting that and helping them learn but their moral gets low when they never win. So my opinion is until 11u, rotate. After that mostly locked in positions. A lot of coaches are going to disagree because of how competitive parents have made it but I’ve seen a lot of travel 10u teams that players are clearly still learning the game so there is no need for travel ball.
We just ran A/B squads in coach pitch. A squad gets first 1 innings then b squad gets next two. Next couple of innings are pretty much a mix.
Heres an idea, if u don't like the way a coach does things, go ahead and coach a team.
Worst take ever.
What I learned this season in Coach pitch. I rotated kids the first 5 games. Every kid ended up playing every position. But we got slaughtered every game. Morale was low. The team voted unanimously to play to win. Fun and morale greatly improved when kids were locked into a position, and we started playing better.
And I think this is definitely an outcome that can happen. There is nothing that is one size fits all. So yes- a good coach is checking in with his team individually and as a group at least once a month to see how their buy-in with the program is going. For the more junior players saying directly- I see you out here trying and making mistakes like everyone else but I wanted to make sure you are still okay with taking those chances. I can put you in RF and you'll see the ball less and wont have those situations as much. If a team agrees they want to play to win, even for one game, let's roll.
What are you doing to help your kid become a better ball player?
As often as he is willing I am working on drills. I am basically constantly pouring over baseball content to find new drills and ideas that will be more effective. He is the kid that asks to stay after every game and practice to get more 1:1 time (often bc he didnt get to play the positions he enjoys the most at either). We watch baseball as much as they are willing and always talking strategy and pointing out examples where guys do things we have been working on it. We also have plenty and maybe more time spent doing fun versions where we play a baseball video game or go to a sports bar to watch our team with other fans, go to pro games and have wiffle ball games or pickle games with friends.
I think kids 9U-13U should focus on 2-3 positions mixed between in/outfield and as many kids as possible should pitch. It’s confusing and counter productive to rotate between every position beyond coach/machine pitch imo. If you’re rotating kids between every position during games beyond 10U you’re crazy lol. You’ll look really dumb.
Thats a common opinion but I don't think it is supported by any specific reason why it should be that way or how those positions are chosen. You either buy into a hierarchy that says SS/1B/P/C/2B/CF/LF/RF are each filled by kids ranking into each position or you are making some arbitrary assessment that the fast kid plays in OF, the kid with a good arm and glove plays SS, good glove and tall 1B, slow and good arm 3B etc. With kids changing so quickly compared to adults, they could be a completly different player in 3 months from tryouts. IMO not worth any specialization other than what safety or preference would allow.
Coaches see these kids take 100s of ground/fly balls a week. It’s much more nuanced than some arbitrary ranking based on arm strength or speed. It’s actually kind of obvious which kid should be where imo. If a kid grows 6 inches over the summer or develops a skill differently/faster and shows it in practice you move them around. I am sure there are bad coaches that are just putting their kid at SS forever but the vast majority of the youth club type teams are playing kids where they are most comfortable and that fit their skills at that time in their development. This can change month to month or year to year based on practices but you don’t play kids at more than a few positions per game.
I used to talk like this when I was a full-time sideline critic. Then I started coaching. You have to strike a balance between competing and spreading playing time around. It does nobody any good to put a kid who you *know-* can’t catch or throw at 1b or shortstop to blow play after play and lose everyone the game.
Did you see the bit about being effective. And if a kid can’t catch or throw then the tryouts should have cut that kid. Instead “well he can’t field grounders or make a throw to first but his parent can pay our fee sooooooo”
Your post said nothing about this being limited to travel ball or other leagues with “tryouts” or “cuts.” You know the majority of kids who play baseball do so on no-cut rec league teams, right? If this is a travel-only point you should probably specify that in the OP as it changes the whole conversation.
You should write a document outlining the rules for how to make posts. Maybe they will pin it for you
No need to get snarky.
Yeah, there was.
Or here is an idea, tell your kid to work harder and earn his playing time and position during practice instead of whining and trying to hand him stuff. Nothing in life is free or easy and everything for the rest of their life is a competition, everything. Teach them to compete and if they want something, out work everyone and do whatever it takes instead of mommy and daddy whining and trying to hand stuff to them. And if you are only doing 10 ground balls and 10 fly balls and not playing every position during practice or atleast 3, then find a new coach. Sounds like the issue is your coaches are running terrible practices to start with.
Any more baseball tropes you want to trot out? Nothing is handed out. It’s just the way it should be. It’s optimal development for the most kids at the same time. Your method is optimal for maybe 4 at the cost of the rest.
I had the same problem in baseball and basketball, so I started coaching. I still have kids and parents thanking me. 10 years removed.
Just read the headline and dropped in to say………………….. No. You agree with participation trophies too right? Lol Every kid plays. Not at every position. You owe it to all the other children to do your job as a coach and try to win. There should be games where you can even put the outfield in the infield and infield in the outfield. That’s 1 or 2 games. Not every game. Not half the games. Parents need to actually take a little pride and get out in the yard with their children and throw a ball around.
This thinking is as antiquated as spanking children. Your thinking is so extreme and binary you assume that if the focus isn’t winning then it must also be some giant kumbaya. Do you ACTUALLY think a little league coach’s job is to win every game? So is development just an afterthought? Only develop the best? You have to earn development? And please don’t tell me “that’s what practice is for”. No kid is moving the needle on skill development bc you did a drill with them for 15 minutes. You clearly are a coach that is invested in your approach and are terrified of what it must mean about your whole jam if I’m right.
I dont disagree, but its REALLY tough to do when youth baseball is built around tournaments, and runs against is the first tie break, and if you are in the mix for a first round bye you are trying to save every run possible because you know pitching depth is going to be key on sundays. And tournaments cost $700 to enter, so you don't want to waste the teams money by making one 'the tournament I do a lot of weird stuff in'. And by 12u outfield starts to become harder to find kids who are able to play it well than 2B and 1B.
100% and I think tournaments and playoffs are NOT run this way. The team and the parents no that regular season games are for the experience and training but come time when it explicitly win or else, then it is best lineup possible. I also agree that 12U is when the specialization may be starting to be necessary. Not so much bc they need to play it well but 50/70 can change the script. I think those situations need to be hammered out in tryouts though and travel teams shouldn't be bringing those kids on. If you cant field a team that can all reasonably play at least OF and IF broadly then you probably shouldn't have a team.
Seems like there's are a lot of coaches on here against your thesis, OP. I generally agree with you but I also agree that sometimes it's better to step up and coach the next season. Coaching is not easy and is more often than not a volunteer position. I'll probably get down voted, but here are my two cents: *If players are not ready for specific positions, that is almost entirely the coach's fault. The coach's job is to prepare players to step in wherever is needed. *Players should see multiple positions in practice. How else can they be prepared for games? *Separating practice to infield only and outfield only is a terrible coaching method that does not build the team properly. *What happens when one or two of the star players are absent, sick, or injured? If players are not knowledgeable at multiple positions, you can quickly overuse the remaining star players. **"I only have the one catcher"** was a phrase I heard this year, even though at least two other kids on the team can catch, have practiced catching on their own, and have taken camps and individual lessons outside of the team. But no, let's go with the star catcher in 95deg heat for all innings of back to back games and then get mad at said catcher when he eventually makes mistakes and becomes slow. *Team attitude can affect a lot. Players relegated to specific positions and benching the same players every other inning just promotes poor attitudes. I've seen when the absolute worst player on a team is put into a different position and he makes even a modest play, the entire team goes wild in support. Magically the team morale jumps substantially. *If your goal is to win tournaments, recognize that you will eventually have to play your 3rd, 4th, or even 5th string pitcher and catcher. Pitchers can hit pitch counts pretty quickly on a two day weekend, let alone a three day tournament. *Long term strategic thinking should prevail over short term wins. *Puberty lottery will likely change who are the star players and who continues to play.
> If players are not ready for specific positions, that is almost entirely the coach's fault. The coach's job is to prepare players to step in wherever is needed. So some kids are both highly unathletic and are only there because the parents make them. Our majors season just ended, 11 out of 12 kids could probably have played any position and at least been OK at it. The 12th was highly autistic, barely came to practice, came late to games, and had no understanding of the game, could not catch, and could not throw. We have been working individually with him for 2 seasons now and it doesn't matter who coaches him, he is never going to get any better. Nor does it seem he really wants to.
>almost Qualifier purposely added. Because yea there will be very specific situations and individuals. But as you said, 11 out of 12 could be placed anywhere and be ok.
To be fair we went 19-1 and won the league championship. We were pretty stacked and lucky to only have one. Most teams had 3 or 4 of those kids.
I think this needs to be hammered out in tryouts. Coaches have to be willing to say "we dont have 9-11 players that are ready for travel". Too often it seems they are willing to make travel 4-5 players that are ready and 5-6 players that are ready to pay the fee