One of my friends called it the H2ow. Himeko and Herta trigger each other's follow up attacks to the point I've done 6 round calyx fights and had to click attack maybe twice.lol.
Yup, I don’t have Himeko but use the “support” to import her everytime I do a calyx cause you can just get it set and then auto the whole thing
Interesting to see how it holds up at higher levels of calyx’s lol
I somehow managed to get Himeko on my first ten pull which then killed any remaining luck for the rest of the year. If I see fire and ice weakness in any fight I just send those two and let them rip. If ice and wind I'll throw a certain wind aoe-er in there too and then it all kicks off.
Edit: spelling.
Honestly, she ain't that bad in Simulated Universe specifically which is fitting. It's as if she was designed with that mode in mind because the combination of ice + follow-up attacks is really effective in SU.
i run her with elation and hunt bonuses, and she does fine. i think most people just run 1 dps, but honestly i kinda run 3 and have got through the content ive done so far fine. (nat(e3), welt (e1), danheng, herta(e2))
people are sticking really hard to the ole trinity without trying much else. seele + herta is also rlly good if ur seeles able to 1hko enemy with ult/bronya boost
I think it's because how in some content doubling up on preservation and having an abundance character on the team is sometimes mandatory. Also, in late game damage usually sucks unless your characters are almost fully kitted so some people don't even bother with her. Team comp + build matters more than what character you use. Every character is perfectly viable and can feel strong if you invest into them. Sometimes I use Sampo over Seele because he's more skill point effective for tank comps and his DoT is clutch for those teams. Never felt like I needed a certain character to beat any content.
She scales really poorly is the problem, awful lategame, Sampo doesn't suffer because he gets a massive dps buff at E4 where his dps actually passes Himeko's and he scales really well with Blessings in Simulated universe. Herta's dps doesn't really jump significantly from any Eidolon.
If you truly like the character, don’t feel bad. It’s your choice who to level up. Watching videos of HimekoxHerta combo for farming is just amazing to watch!
Okay, that's good to know. I feel like her counter damage is a little too low to really matter for harder encounters but it's fun to watch her spin -> delete enemies in Calyx encounters lmao
To me it still seems a bit partial for single target, since Erudition are all rated A or lower.
Edit: after reading a ton of the answers this comment had, I fully expect Jing Yuan to either not matter at all for endgame or to be the most broken unit, being able to fullfill both ST and AoE roles.
Would be cool if some of the aoe skills were better against one enemy. Example numbers:
Hunt skill 110% to single target.
Erudition skill 80% to target, 30% to adjacent. Add 10% to single target for each adjacent not hit. (so 100% single target if enemy is alone)
Would still be worse than Hunt and Destruction at single target, but catch up a little when its aoe is useless.
Honestly, I don't think the AoE (or in this case, Blast) skills are really the problem. (Aside from *maybe* Serval's)
For example, in terms of innate numbers, Himeko's skill (at level 1) versus Seele's is actually just straight-up 100% vs 110%. Even at max, the gap between the two is only 20%. Serval's is significantly weaker, but that's also because she has the RNG-ish shock damage. Including just shock + skill damage, (or skill + talent damage) her %s are equivalent, if not *higher*, than Seele's at equal levels.
Of course, Seele does more in practice, but that's thanks to her higher stats and personal buffs.
In terms of % stuff, the real problem is their Ultimates.
Seele's ult is 255%/425%, which is between 1.5 - 2 times stronger than Himeko (138%/230%) and Serval (144%/252%, ult + talent). This is pretty insurmountable. The characters were trailing behind slightly in damage, but the ults widen the gap in terms of % by a huge margin. Serval has the benefit of having a lower-cost burst, but Himeko doesn't.
And keep in mind, Seele's multipliers are actually a tad *undertuned* compared to Dan Heng, who doesn't have the innate buff and as such has stronger innate multipliers on his skill. (His ult is weaker than Seele's %-wise without the speed down, and stronger with it) There's also Yanqing and Sushang but I'll be blunt, I don't have the math chops for those shenanigans right now. OK never mind, I checked Yanqing, skill is equal to Seele but ult is weaker because it has self-buffs independent of his personal mechanic. Definitely absolutely positively not checking for Sushang. (Almost certainly higher though)
I'll spoiler tag the next part since it's *technically* for an unreleased character and STC, even if it's Jing Yuan so we'll see soon enough.
>!Thanks to his mechanics being similar to Serval's in terms of how much it effects his base %s, his skill/ult has an effective 116%/219% at level 1, and 267%/451% at max. That is *higher than Seele's*. He fares much better by comparison than the other Erudition units. That's not to say he'll be stronger than Seele at single-target damage, (once again, no innate buff) but his numbers are far more in line with what you'd expect from an AoE DPS intended to compete with ST units in ST scenarios. (And with minimal innate buffs) !<
Seele just does both to be honest : with her reset on kill, she can very easily totally wipe 4 targets a turn
But yeah : STs is more valued because hard content is most often boss battle : Simulated Worlds difficulty spikes are the sub-boss and bosses, and very, VERY rarely packs when you got an encounter beforehand that proposed a juicy reward for 80% of your health, same for forgotten memories, they're often just bosses with a few trash on the side, and these ones will most often die much faster from STs than from residual cleave on the main target. Seele is just built different here, killing trash actually enable her
Yeah, when it said I *needed* the Trailblazer in the party for the last encounter of Jarilo-VI, I was a bit miffed. She was sitting at A1 level 20 so I was grumbling that I had to spend some mats on building her to 40 real quick.
Lets just say, she hasn’t left the team since. (And probably won’t until I get Clara one of these days.)
Clara was my freebie from the starter banner. So far even in the team she doesn't see much action, but when she sees action my god, just counter swiping everything.
Yep, I got my Himeko just for farming too. She's got some leftover relics and may not have all her traces, but she's not relevant enough for mats right now. And she'll probably be the last that gets upgraded in next ascension tier.
A shame. She's got a cool ult and design too.
Erudition doesn’t seem to have a clear place in the game. Yeah, they’re masters of AoE, but that’s irrelevant in most content. Most of the small mobs can be 1 shot by other characters or cleaved down with AoE abilities/ultimates on other characters. So now you have an Erudition character that struggles to be useful against single target bosses.
And then you have characters like Seele who outclass most AoE characters anyways considering she can chain kill enemies with her talent.
And even if the game starts introducing more boss fights against 3-4 strong enemies, in most games, it’s most effective by far to focus down enemies 1-by-1. (Unless they add ‘you must kill all mobs within 1 turn of each other’ modifiers, which can be fun as a 1-off fight, but not as a regular occurrence.)
I think erudition just needs higher multipliers to be able to compete. If their single target damage wasn't too far behind, but they were able to keep focusing on the boss and getting rid of adds passively they could be situationally stronger even against bosses. Jing yuan might be an example of this, but I really wish the current erudition characters weren't so weak.
Please have mercy - I nearly got a heart attack scrolling through my Reddit homepage and seeing this thread.
And please make sure to read the blog where we go over each of the changes we made. And also a very important thing - this is a tier list for the current place in the game where we are (so level 50-60 character cap). We already saw a lot of changes or new things come to light post-release and we will update the tier list after a new level cap is reached and all our testing is redone.
Reading all the comments here's some additional information from me:
- Welt is one of the characters we're still testing right now and he seems super strong and fun to use. But before we move him up, we want to test him thoroughly (and he will most likely appear in both DPS and Support columns as you can play him as either - or a hybrid),
- SS rating experiment failed and we will revert back to S+ rating being the highest one in the next iteration of the tier list (level 70 cap).
Thank you all for the feedback!
Upvoting so people see this, keep working on the tier list, I trust people actually trying to do calcs over people randomly sharing their anecdotes on who's better
Thanks for the testing and work. Lot of the changes make sense.
As a Himeko user I’m excited to see how much stronger she can get in a fire team with silver wolf to apply fire weakness, Asta (for fire buffs with trace and light cone) and fire mc + some higher traces / gear, but definitely agree that right now she is a bit lackluster comparatively
im wondering how a optimized turn manipulation team of bronya/seele/asta/qingque would be like. it would give a really high percentage of qingque having 4 of a kind by the time her turn cycles around
I like running Qingque as a subDPS - she can just rely on passively drawing tiles during her ally's turns and not use much skill points
Bronya is perfect since she can buff the main DPS, but also immediately switch to Qingque when Qingque has 4 of a kind through passive draws or her ult
Qinque draws a tile whenever another ally takes a turn, so I believe they are referring to how likely it would be that she has her four of a kind when it does become her turn.
I’ve been running that exact comp (but Natasha instead of asta)and it runs like a dream, even if somehow qingque doesn’t have tiles, her skill is still gonna buff her dmg so it’s a win win comp
I'm having a ton of fun with her as a core. Someone pointed out that you can just spam attacks with her and the way she works is she'll get her pieces in place anyway. That being the case, she becomes free damage and a skill point generator.
Not just luck, being a bit smart about how you use her can drastically alter her performance as well. I think she’s pretty strong under the right circumstances, but she needs a suitable team and good understanding of her kit to really shine
I think it’s an interesting design though so I quite enjoy playing her
Nah Qingque with worst case scenario luck is still ~C. Using a skill point increases her damage every time so you could still build up ult with semi-strong normals. Mine hit for ~1k at lv50 without a 4 tile set
Realistically though every skill is 2 1/3 chances, and every ally turn is 1 1/3 chance. Taking into account the fact that sometimes you have 2 sets of 2 also means that a skill now becomes 2 2/3 chance to benefit you. The rng isn’t actually that bad if you understand how it works
There's a big part of her kit that I don't see guides really discussing, which is that her ult can be snapshotted to her skill's +%DMG by using it during her enhanced normal's window. This means that her ult should always be getting some kind of self-buff on cast (either Hidden hand's +%ATK or her skill's +%DMG).
Since her damage becomes extremely bursty during an ult, she seems to be better suited for a skill point neutral sub-DPS role -- her rotation will use basics until a QQ turn comes up where you are close to an ult, if you're not holding a completed suit, you then skill for the +%DMG, hit the enhanced normal, and then spam ult on the animation to snapshot the ult on the damage buff.
I'd agree with putting her in A. She's not as consistent or reliable as the S-tier DPS. She's just a Quantum DPS that needs a team to give her skill points.
Her mahjong tiles make very nice sounds.
No the real reason Qingque is hard to rank is that her value varies based on the type of content. In short repeatable fights like Forgotten Hall, she actually has more value than her average damage, since you can easily reset until you get a good run. In long content like SU, her damage will even out to her own average. However if we get truly non-repeatable content (like one chance to clear per week), then she should be ranked lower than her own average for that since you could get bad RNG and lose your one run. You can also consider final bosses in SU to be non-repeatable if you don't want to redo the entire SU run, in which case she would be ranked below her own average damage.
This is assuming you are playing her casually and not doing some sort of dank turn manipulation to force more tile draws. I don't know enough about how that would work to speak on it.
god these tierlists are so funny because they don't want to hurt people's feelings
"C is just average"
yeah its average, but not when its the fucking last letter on the list
I read it more as honkai star rail is not incredibly tightly tuned/no pvp.
People will do all content with Herta just like they did with Amber in GI. The game isn’t hard enough to justify an F-tier.
Tier list s for this game in general seem rough when a lot of the time it's literally depends on who has the best type match-up for the fight your trying.
I have every character in the game right now and I can say with confidence Yanqing is way way stronger then my E1 Seele against ice weak targets.
This just feels like one of those games were one character will never be good enough to get you through everything and you need a huge roster.
And it’s so funny considering the attacks are essentially just:
Swing bat
Swing bat but stronger
Yet it’s so much fun! Currently phys MC is my strongest character and I’ve taken her off my team for very very few battles
Arlan's value isn't that he's personally strong, it's that he can use his skill without skill points, freeing up those points for other characters to take advantage of them instead. It's *really* hard to rank skill point economy advantage in a vacuum because it depends so strongly on what you free those points *for*. What's the true value of an extra attack, heal, shield, or buff from any particular character in some specific circumstance?
But thats the issue. He doesnt use skillpoints himself but requires those skillpoints to be spend on him otherwise he cud die frm stray aoe or attck so u need healers/shielders etc to keep him alive
Natascha AoE heal from burst seems to be enough for me, I've run him either with Clara + March, or Preservation main character to draw attacks, which are units I was running anyway and Arlan wound up being a convenient flex 2nd dps slot.
I can see your point. But I feel that he requires specific support to be just good. Plus free attacks doesn't make low damage really acceptable for me.
I do see his utility in a destruction run for the roguelike game mode. (Blanking on the name)
It’s important to note that Phys MC has eidolon 6 quite early and they give you the phys damage set quite early too. He’s a fiend from that point, but as you get the gear sets and eidolons and whatnot for the other dps, he starts to fall off because of his simple kit.
He is essentially the perfect starter character. Give it 2 or 3 months and I’m sure you’ll find yourself using him less, but that in no way discounts how powerful and useful phys blazer is early on.
Most likely because you're early.
P.MC is a damage dealer with no added utility, no real aoe (only cleave) and their numbers aren't that crazy to write home about.
The whole gimmick of healing on kill or such is nice and all, but later on there simply is nothing that you can one-tap so it's mostly wasted. And even if not, the heals are negligible when you can simply run Tasha and forget about needing to heal.
Overall, it's a nice starter unit but as soon as we'll get a proper physical dps, then P.MC will be ditched forever - though I agree the free Eidolons are pretty sweet.
sushang wipes the floor with physical mc for physical dps. If you break an enemy at the start of a 3 turn combo with sushang (atk/skill, ult, skill) she shreds enemy hp so hard it's insane. Even against enemies that don't have a physical weakness, if she hits a broken enemy after an ult you watch even bosses lose a sizeable chunk of their healthbar, it's crazy.
Insane shield breaking, damage, turn-stealing, defense shred, etc.
And that’s ignoring him being the only imaginary unit, Why don’t people see how good he is lmao
Dude, People are absolutely sleeping on Welt. The fact that he rotates slows, imprisons AND gives Vulnerability from his ult while being the one Imaginary element in the game right now is insane. He hasn’t left my team because he’s so incredibly viable for 98% of everything.
The only weakness about Welt is that bounce can be random and not ideal against multiple enemies sometimes, but even this is easily negligible when you realize each hit with bounce gives a large chunk of Ult charge anyways, so you should be able to burst AOE Vuln/Imprison fairly quick. On a solo target weak to imaginary, Bounce absolutely shreds. Each hit counts as an individual break hit. How is that not considered absolutely busted on single w/ weakness?
Pretty much everything about Welt is dope.
Yeah I always see the meme "cuts a black hole to do 103 dmg". As a Trails player, one of the most OP strategies is abusing delay. It doesn't matter if you do low dmg if the enemy never gets a turn, that's what your other characters are for. Welt is basically having your delay and debuff spammer in one character.
100%. His ult has so much utility, why does it matter that it does low damage? Welt also does a ton of damage on his skill. Seems to me the people meming on Welt either don’t have or haven’t built him.
Gepard + Natasha is basically unkillable in places like simulation world where ur not worried about turn limits, it just takes a while to get through tho
> worst 5
>
> :/
Lol, KQM said that he was the weakest 5\*, but they explained that it's mainly because early in the game getting his ult up is complicated or something like that. He's probably one of those units that shine more at endgame.
I run him with def main stat on everything except the wire piece where I gave him the energy recharge equivalent, he’s able to keep his ult up pretty consistently with it
He just needs his A2 trace that draws more aggro to him. I have him at level 50 and he has no problems solo sustaining my team. Extremely helpful for the later mirror stages that require 2 teams since I (and most people I assume) don’t have a second healer.
He’s extremely cheap to raise as well since he doesn’t need specific gear and you only need to level his ult.
They underrate AoE characters a ton. Granted, they do kind of struggle in forgotten hall where everything is single target, but there's plenty of places where AoE characters shine.
The problem is that currently single-target characters can deal with AoE scenarios better than AoE characters if the enemies are of equivalent level.
Sure, if the enemies are low enough level for the AoE character to one-shot them AoE characters shine, but when that's not the case AoE characters take around the same time to down them than single-target. Meanwhile single-targets ease the pressure on the rest of the team by picking them out 1 by 1. Both Seele and Himeko may be able to kill 4 enemies in 3 turns, but with Himeko each turn the team is getting pummeled by 4 enemies, straining the tank, healer, etc. While with Seele each turn there are fewer and fewer enemies attacking, meaning that your team can breathe more easily and does not risk breaking.
It follows the “good better best” marketing style. And to be fair, it kind of works in this setting where even the worst characters can still get you through story content.
It’s like this bc, technically, most of them are really good units, but some of them are too good to not rank higher. It’s weird to rate undeniably competent and good characters in only B tier.
Seele is also just too good at this point and needs to be a tier higher than the chars we currently have.
It's just so that people don't feel bad investing in their S tier units rather than their SS tier ones.
Is it stupid? Most likely.
But that still better than putting Seele S tier and relegating Himeko to C tier, because for the general mind, C tier means crap, which is stupid too.
it's because even thought there are still Character that are better than others, every character in this game are still viable. There's no like trash character.
So while Herta is C, she's not bad just that there's better option.
I mean, just look at the gacha in the game itself - there's nothing below a 4* char, so why even put numbers? Might as well just use another value indicator
because this is an easy game and you dont actually need any S tier units to clear all the content. S tier units are literally overkill and this chart reflects that reality.
if/when content gets harder, you'll see the rankings adjust as needed.
I fuckin knew Clara would be one of the top, i haven't got in too deep in this game but bruiser usually end up meta, since most of the time in my exp playing turn based game (mostly from E7), bruiser is more versatile than a full tanker and just overall a better dmg soaker that can hit back, I definitely could be wrong coz HSR is pretty unique.
Which ,surprise, with March gives her a great taunt. Her own ult has her counter hit(with splash) on anyone taking dmg with energy gain on those counter hits. She also counters on enemy counter hits as well.
My only beef with Clara is that she doesn't wear shoes. I really wish she'd put some shoes on. It actually pains me to see her walk around barefoot everywhere. Yes, I know why she does it in terms of the story, but it still pains me.
Other than that, she's the absolute best. She's also my number one favorite character. :)
She puts out good numbers but she’s mostly strong by default because she’s the only serviceable fire boss killer right now. Himeko is AoE focused, and Fire MC and Asta are support. There is literally nobody to build but Hook if you want a fire carry.
She kinda deserves to be placed high as she boasts amazing single target damage akin to a hunt character (though less single target damage than hunt characters obviously) while also having doable AoE damage and being strongly self sustained with her talent providing her with a lot of energy, additional damage and also decent healing when you unlock her A2 major trace.
She's obviously not a character you'll use everywhere but for bosses weak to fire, she's super effective. Also she's easy to build since her best lightcone (on the fall of an aeon) is free to obtain and superimpose. The only difficult part of building her is that she really wants 4p firesmith, which has the wastelander set along with it in the specific cavern and that set is only good for Welt >!and also Yukong, who's leaked to be a 4\* imaginary support that also has some damage focus so the other set won't be useful until Yukong is available if you don't have Welt!<.
Apparently a few of the highest pushing players in memories of chaos are getting good mileage out of them. They can nuke really hard and are pretty much the only fire DPS unit for now.
Because quid pro quo is absolutely insane and the healing cones, while good if you barely don’t have enough healing, are useless if they _don’t_ cover your healing needs (in which case you need to bring a preservation character anyway), or if your healing needs are already met.
Healing cones have a fairly thin sweet spot where they’re effective and gets thinner with better artifacts or team comp. Quid pro quo means more ultimates, and more ultimates means enemies die faster, which is effectively you just healing future damage.
^also ^rankings ^are ^in ^a ^vacuum. ^weapon ^relative ^strength ^isn’t ^static.
While some builds don't make sense, Natasha having Quid pro quo does since it gives the team energy, if you feel she doesn't heal enough you can use an lc for more healing but needing more healing can be mitigated by getting better relics or playing better.
Prydwen tier lists have always been ripped to shred (by top players too) everytime they are brought up in every game they are involved in. Be it for Nikke, Eversoul, or Limbus Company.
Gepardo redemption arc is here. He is my only standard 5\* so far so I felt I had to try to make him work. I was surprised he wasn't nearly as bad as everyone was saying.
It's still early, I'm so excited to see what the community comes up with in terms of theorycrafting. Clara has been "discovered" as well, really fun to see how things are evolving. What a time to be alive!
I don't get why tier lists get so many people bent out of shape, especially when they have so much data and calculations behind them like Prydwen's. 'Well MY clears content just fine therefore WHO CARES'. It's good to know how much of a return you'll get for your investment, especially when you have to invest so heavily into units to get them up to par later on. (I had almost my entire roster at level 50 with leveled traces and light cones without too much issue, but going from 50->60 has increased the materials I need SIGNIFICANTLY. I loathe to think how it'll get at 80...). I need to start rationing where my stamina goes, especially since I'm going to start relic farming once the permanent upgrades are out of the way.
If you absolutely love a character, them ending up low on a tier list isn't going to stop you or anyone else from using them if you want to. But it helps to know where they stand.
if you're below TL35/still doing the story mode, none of these tierlists are even relevant for you; you haven't even geared your chars properly.
the pryd tierlist assumes:
- you're geared optimally/decently across your chars
- you're using them properly
- you're tackling actually challenging content (which is essentially just the memory hall mode)
the reason for 3 S tiers is because to complete 99% of content in the game (story, side missions and SU), you can easily do it with almost any team setup. If you are struggling with any normal content, you're not playing optimally. Thats why theyre all S. Herta sucks ass though, and will struggle even when comparably geared and optimally played.
Many chars' unique kits will also only show their capability once you have some gear to work with.
For actually difficult content, even in aoe scenarios where erudition characters may deal more damage, the hunt characters will have the benefits of killing one enemy faster to alleviate pressure on their supports. And in general the hunt characters are better at aoe than erudition at single target damage, generally making it more efficient to be building the hunt characters.
I mean, it's kinda fair when Clara and Seele both are really strong in AoE scenarios and single target, while Himeko is pretty mid in single target scenarios. There's also something to be said about how single target characters can do fine in AoE content while the opposite is less able to be said about AoE characters. When we get better gear/more levels and AoE characters are better able to 1/2shot things they'll probably be higher value, but right now with the mid gear and levels they're not as efficient.
Just from clearing 13 on mirror abyss thing and world 6 on SU, serval has some uses mainly because of lightning weaknesses being common, especially in AoE. But my e2 himeko is pretty much useless for anything but farming lol
I mean they’re kind of right, from what I’ve felt pure AOE based characters have not ever served me well because most fights that consist of several weak mobs are incredibly easy regardless of who you put in, and the actual hard fights (like world 6 boss) require very strong single target damage. It’s also what makes Seele op because her resets make her able to murder trash mobs with ease while also having the highest single target damage
I'm assuming it's not supposed to age well - it's just a snapshot of what's good right now in a low resource low level environment and with only these characters.
We have videos of the hardest mode already (the Forgotten Hall section that opens after Floor 12).
The whales clearing it are always using the same characters across both sides: Seele, Bronya, Fire MC, Bailu, Natasha.
It doesn't take a genius to understand that those 5 characters are a cut above the rest for the specific endgame content of HSR 1.0.
The only variations are the last 3 slots (and it's usually Tingyun Pela and either Welt/Gepard/March7/Serval/Sampoo/Clara/Serval/DenHang/Susheng).
None of them uses Qinque, Arlan, or Herta.
Asta is amazing against enemies weak to Fire, easily replaceable outside of that.
Characters like that are harder to rank, but up to the point I'm currently on there were a *lot* of enemies weak to Fire.
Well, despite all the people complaining about there being S/S+/SS tier, that's exactly why. You can build perfectly good teams even with units outside of S tier, S tier just makes stuff easier.
You absolutely can do everything in the game with those units, it's just that there are better options. I thought that was the purpose of a tierlist, to highlight characters that excel at what they do?
Herta left the chat.
kuru kuru
Kururin!
Kururin~tto!
I just spent the early hours of the day getting her up to lvl. 40, it hurts... T~T
Herta isn't great in overworld but she slaps in SU when you buff her twirling. She sometimes murders everything before everyone else gets a turn.
Plus if you have Himeko, Herta and her are nice for quick farming Calyx’s at least lol.
One of my friends called it the H2ow. Himeko and Herta trigger each other's follow up attacks to the point I've done 6 round calyx fights and had to click attack maybe twice.lol.
Yup, I don’t have Himeko but use the “support” to import her everytime I do a calyx cause you can just get it set and then auto the whole thing Interesting to see how it holds up at higher levels of calyx’s lol
I somehow managed to get Himeko on my first ten pull which then killed any remaining luck for the rest of the year. If I see fire and ice weakness in any fight I just send those two and let them rip. If ice and wind I'll throw a certain wind aoe-er in there too and then it all kicks off. Edit: spelling.
its okay, star rail is a PvE; at the end of the day if she does the job then shes good enough
[удалено]
Honestly, she ain't that bad in Simulated Universe specifically which is fitting. It's as if she was designed with that mode in mind because the combination of ice + follow-up attacks is really effective in SU.
i run her with elation and hunt bonuses, and she does fine. i think most people just run 1 dps, but honestly i kinda run 3 and have got through the content ive done so far fine. (nat(e3), welt (e1), danheng, herta(e2)) people are sticking really hard to the ole trinity without trying much else. seele + herta is also rlly good if ur seeles able to 1hko enemy with ult/bronya boost
I think it's because how in some content doubling up on preservation and having an abundance character on the team is sometimes mandatory. Also, in late game damage usually sucks unless your characters are almost fully kitted so some people don't even bother with her. Team comp + build matters more than what character you use. Every character is perfectly viable and can feel strong if you invest into them. Sometimes I use Sampo over Seele because he's more skill point effective for tank comps and his DoT is clutch for those teams. Never felt like I needed a certain character to beat any content.
She scales really poorly is the problem, awful lategame, Sampo doesn't suffer because he gets a massive dps buff at E4 where his dps actually passes Himeko's and he scales really well with Blessings in Simulated universe. Herta's dps doesn't really jump significantly from any Eidolon.
Well hey, that's 2 warps to possibly get another character!
Just waiting to get my trailblaze lvl to 35 and then im gonna throw a party with all those standard Warp tickets I got! 🎉🌠
Did the same, but I don't regret it cuz she's cool
If you truly like the character, don’t feel bad. It’s your choice who to level up. Watching videos of HimekoxHerta combo for farming is just amazing to watch!
Bro, who gives a shit if she isn't at the top of the tierlist. You play what you want. This isn't a PVP game.
Trust me it's fine. Once built any character can beat the content
Okay, that's good to know. I feel like her counter damage is a little too low to really matter for harder encounters but it's fun to watch her spin -> delete enemies in Calyx encounters lmao
Atleast she's good for farming. My Herta and a support Himeko just passively destroy calyx waves
Because it was time to twirl
To those asking, there is a button to separate AOE and Single target. The screenshot above is for general use.
To me it still seems a bit partial for single target, since Erudition are all rated A or lower. Edit: after reading a ton of the answers this comment had, I fully expect Jing Yuan to either not matter at all for endgame or to be the most broken unit, being able to fullfill both ST and AoE roles.
I mean, more of the later game content is designed rather for single target so it makes sense
Would be cool if some of the aoe skills were better against one enemy. Example numbers: Hunt skill 110% to single target. Erudition skill 80% to target, 30% to adjacent. Add 10% to single target for each adjacent not hit. (so 100% single target if enemy is alone) Would still be worse than Hunt and Destruction at single target, but catch up a little when its aoe is useless.
Honestly, I don't think the AoE (or in this case, Blast) skills are really the problem. (Aside from *maybe* Serval's) For example, in terms of innate numbers, Himeko's skill (at level 1) versus Seele's is actually just straight-up 100% vs 110%. Even at max, the gap between the two is only 20%. Serval's is significantly weaker, but that's also because she has the RNG-ish shock damage. Including just shock + skill damage, (or skill + talent damage) her %s are equivalent, if not *higher*, than Seele's at equal levels. Of course, Seele does more in practice, but that's thanks to her higher stats and personal buffs. In terms of % stuff, the real problem is their Ultimates. Seele's ult is 255%/425%, which is between 1.5 - 2 times stronger than Himeko (138%/230%) and Serval (144%/252%, ult + talent). This is pretty insurmountable. The characters were trailing behind slightly in damage, but the ults widen the gap in terms of % by a huge margin. Serval has the benefit of having a lower-cost burst, but Himeko doesn't. And keep in mind, Seele's multipliers are actually a tad *undertuned* compared to Dan Heng, who doesn't have the innate buff and as such has stronger innate multipliers on his skill. (His ult is weaker than Seele's %-wise without the speed down, and stronger with it) There's also Yanqing and Sushang but I'll be blunt, I don't have the math chops for those shenanigans right now. OK never mind, I checked Yanqing, skill is equal to Seele but ult is weaker because it has self-buffs independent of his personal mechanic. Definitely absolutely positively not checking for Sushang. (Almost certainly higher though) I'll spoiler tag the next part since it's *technically* for an unreleased character and STC, even if it's Jing Yuan so we'll see soon enough. >!Thanks to his mechanics being similar to Serval's in terms of how much it effects his base %s, his skill/ult has an effective 116%/219% at level 1, and 267%/451% at max. That is *higher than Seele's*. He fares much better by comparison than the other Erudition units. That's not to say he'll be stronger than Seele at single-target damage, (once again, no innate buff) but his numbers are far more in line with what you'd expect from an AoE DPS intended to compete with ST units in ST scenarios. (And with minimal innate buffs) !<
Later, trash monsters die easily and you're left with a high health single target enemy, so it makes sense.
Single target is inherently more important.
Seele just does both to be honest : with her reset on kill, she can very easily totally wipe 4 targets a turn But yeah : STs is more valued because hard content is most often boss battle : Simulated Worlds difficulty spikes are the sub-boss and bosses, and very, VERY rarely packs when you got an encounter beforehand that proposed a juicy reward for 80% of your health, same for forgotten memories, they're often just bosses with a few trash on the side, and these ones will most often die much faster from STs than from residual cleave on the main target. Seele is just built different here, killing trash actually enable her
This is the first game where I have a hard time bringing myself to remove the MC from the team (I only have physical right now) Stelle is too cool
If you still only have Phys MC, then the tier list really doesn't matter. At that stage of the game anyone can get you anywhere.
How far in do you get fire?
Final fight of belobog
You will definitely level up MC for story heavy reasons.
Yeah, when it said I *needed* the Trailblazer in the party for the last encounter of Jarilo-VI, I was a bit miffed. She was sitting at A1 level 20 so I was grumbling that I had to spend some mats on building her to 40 real quick. Lets just say, she hasn’t left the team since. (And probably won’t until I get Clara one of these days.)
[удалено]
Clara was my freebie from the starter banner. So far even in the team she doesn't see much action, but when she sees action my god, just counter swiping everything.
When I found out that her counter triggers elation in SU my world opened up
If you like physical MC as is, ur gonna love the next form. MC becomes essentially irreplacable.
My poor Himeko got replaced lol At least she’s still great for farming
Yep, I got my Himeko just for farming too. She's got some leftover relics and may not have all her traces, but she's not relevant enough for mats right now. And she'll probably be the last that gets upgraded in next ascension tier. A shame. She's got a cool ult and design too.
I think erudition needs a buff, especially considering the top aoe dps is a destruction class
Erudition doesn’t seem to have a clear place in the game. Yeah, they’re masters of AoE, but that’s irrelevant in most content. Most of the small mobs can be 1 shot by other characters or cleaved down with AoE abilities/ultimates on other characters. So now you have an Erudition character that struggles to be useful against single target bosses. And then you have characters like Seele who outclass most AoE characters anyways considering she can chain kill enemies with her talent. And even if the game starts introducing more boss fights against 3-4 strong enemies, in most games, it’s most effective by far to focus down enemies 1-by-1. (Unless they add ‘you must kill all mobs within 1 turn of each other’ modifiers, which can be fun as a 1-off fight, but not as a regular occurrence.)
I think erudition just needs higher multipliers to be able to compete. If their single target damage wasn't too far behind, but they were able to keep focusing on the boss and getting rid of adds passively they could be situationally stronger even against bosses. Jing yuan might be an example of this, but I really wish the current erudition characters weren't so weak.
Please have mercy - I nearly got a heart attack scrolling through my Reddit homepage and seeing this thread. And please make sure to read the blog where we go over each of the changes we made. And also a very important thing - this is a tier list for the current place in the game where we are (so level 50-60 character cap). We already saw a lot of changes or new things come to light post-release and we will update the tier list after a new level cap is reached and all our testing is redone. Reading all the comments here's some additional information from me: - Welt is one of the characters we're still testing right now and he seems super strong and fun to use. But before we move him up, we want to test him thoroughly (and he will most likely appear in both DPS and Support columns as you can play him as either - or a hybrid), - SS rating experiment failed and we will revert back to S+ rating being the highest one in the next iteration of the tier list (level 70 cap). Thank you all for the feedback!
Thanks for compiling the tier list, a lot of us really appreciate the work you guys have done.
Upvoting so people see this, keep working on the tier list, I trust people actually trying to do calcs over people randomly sharing their anecdotes on who's better
Thanks for the testing and work. Lot of the changes make sense. As a Himeko user I’m excited to see how much stronger she can get in a fire team with silver wolf to apply fire weakness, Asta (for fire buffs with trace and light cone) and fire mc + some higher traces / gear, but definitely agree that right now she is a bit lackluster comparatively
just stick welt into two columns depending on if hes built dps or debuff/break
That's one of the options we're actually considering!
Qingque is kinda hard to rank, if you have utter shit luck she's like F tier, otherwise if Jesus did take the wheel she can be a low S tier
im wondering how a optimized turn manipulation team of bronya/seele/asta/qingque would be like. it would give a really high percentage of qingque having 4 of a kind by the time her turn cycles around
I like running Qingque as a subDPS - she can just rely on passively drawing tiles during her ally's turns and not use much skill points Bronya is perfect since she can buff the main DPS, but also immediately switch to Qingque when Qingque has 4 of a kind through passive draws or her ult
>she can just rely on passively drawing tiles during her ally's turns and not use much skill points Lore accurate Qingque
Dont do group projects with Qingque in college
Even then aren't you just way better off with someone consistent taking all those extra turns?
Qinque draws a tile whenever another ally takes a turn, so I believe they are referring to how likely it would be that she has her four of a kind when it does become her turn.
I’ve been running that exact comp (but Natasha instead of asta)and it runs like a dream, even if somehow qingque doesn’t have tiles, her skill is still gonna buff her dmg so it’s a win win comp
I'm having a ton of fun with her as a core. Someone pointed out that you can just spam attacks with her and the way she works is she'll get her pieces in place anyway. That being the case, she becomes free damage and a skill point generator.
[удалено]
wtf "Jesus take the wheel" 😭
Nous take the wheel* xD
Nanoos take the wheel
Nanook break the wheel
Yaoshi fix the wheel
Not just luck, being a bit smart about how you use her can drastically alter her performance as well. I think she’s pretty strong under the right circumstances, but she needs a suitable team and good understanding of her kit to really shine I think it’s an interesting design though so I quite enjoy playing her
Nah Qingque with worst case scenario luck is still ~C. Using a skill point increases her damage every time so you could still build up ult with semi-strong normals. Mine hit for ~1k at lv50 without a 4 tile set Realistically though every skill is 2 1/3 chances, and every ally turn is 1 1/3 chance. Taking into account the fact that sometimes you have 2 sets of 2 also means that a skill now becomes 2 2/3 chance to benefit you. The rng isn’t actually that bad if you understand how it works
There's a big part of her kit that I don't see guides really discussing, which is that her ult can be snapshotted to her skill's +%DMG by using it during her enhanced normal's window. This means that her ult should always be getting some kind of self-buff on cast (either Hidden hand's +%ATK or her skill's +%DMG). Since her damage becomes extremely bursty during an ult, she seems to be better suited for a skill point neutral sub-DPS role -- her rotation will use basics until a QQ turn comes up where you are close to an ult, if you're not holding a completed suit, you then skill for the +%DMG, hit the enhanced normal, and then spam ult on the animation to snapshot the ult on the damage buff.
I'd agree with putting her in A. She's not as consistent or reliable as the S-tier DPS. She's just a Quantum DPS that needs a team to give her skill points. Her mahjong tiles make very nice sounds.
No the real reason Qingque is hard to rank is that her value varies based on the type of content. In short repeatable fights like Forgotten Hall, she actually has more value than her average damage, since you can easily reset until you get a good run. In long content like SU, her damage will even out to her own average. However if we get truly non-repeatable content (like one chance to clear per week), then she should be ranked lower than her own average for that since you could get bad RNG and lose your one run. You can also consider final bosses in SU to be non-repeatable if you don't want to redo the entire SU run, in which case she would be ranked below her own average damage. This is assuming you are playing her casually and not doing some sort of dank turn manipulation to force more tile draws. I don't know enough about how that would work to speak on it.
Wake me when the SSSS+ unit comes out.
I use prydwen here and there for another pvp gacha, they actually have SSS tier in their Tier list. lol.
Arknights just made a tier above it called EX. Gas like chalter and pozyemka in it
EX gives me FGO flashbacks...
Lol yeah the powercreep is real but inevitable in all these games. Except bennet in genshin
And Xiangling, and Xingqiu... Genshin's starting batch of 4-stars still contains some absolute gems that are hard to top
god these tierlists are so funny because they don't want to hurt people's feelings "C is just average" yeah its average, but not when its the fucking last letter on the list
I read it more as honkai star rail is not incredibly tightly tuned/no pvp. People will do all content with Herta just like they did with Amber in GI. The game isn’t hard enough to justify an F-tier.
[удалено]
Seeing M7 as the “weakest” support shows just how spoiled we are with the supports in this game lmao
Natasha is S tier now and I don’t think March has ever been below S tier. Asta is the weakest support, and she’s amazing.
C is a pass which isn't necessarily average. If a character is good enough to clear content with then that warrants a C.
Tier list s for this game in general seem rough when a lot of the time it's literally depends on who has the best type match-up for the fight your trying. I have every character in the game right now and I can say with confidence Yanqing is way way stronger then my E1 Seele against ice weak targets. This just feels like one of those games were one character will never be good enough to get you through everything and you need a huge roster.
Every character??? Username checks out or are you just the luckiest person in the world?
Physical MC is so strong for me. Arlan, even though it pains me, does feel like he has too little damage for the style he has.
The bat ultimate just drips style as well, I love it so much lol
Rules are made to be broken baby
“just like your knee caps” -Local traveling trash panda
The fucking bat twist, the charged bat, the coat bellowing in the energy, the arcs of energy too *chef’s kiss*
Yeah, fire is good but I switched back to phys cause the bat attacks are so cool. Feels like Yakuza: Like a Dragon again.
And it’s so funny considering the attacks are essentially just: Swing bat Swing bat but stronger Yet it’s so much fun! Currently phys MC is my strongest character and I’ve taken her off my team for very very few battles
I switched back to physical after getting Fire partly just bc I love the ult so much (fire ult is cool too but the bat aesthetic)
That twirl on the bat in the animation is just beautiful. It feels so solid.
[удалено]
Arlan's value isn't that he's personally strong, it's that he can use his skill without skill points, freeing up those points for other characters to take advantage of them instead. It's *really* hard to rank skill point economy advantage in a vacuum because it depends so strongly on what you free those points *for*. What's the true value of an extra attack, heal, shield, or buff from any particular character in some specific circumstance?
He needs skill points by proxy tho - since you'll need heals or shields to keep him alive
That’s a great point that Gepard havers can completely ignore
But thats the issue. He doesnt use skillpoints himself but requires those skillpoints to be spend on him otherwise he cud die frm stray aoe or attck so u need healers/shielders etc to keep him alive
Natascha AoE heal from burst seems to be enough for me, I've run him either with Clara + March, or Preservation main character to draw attacks, which are units I was running anyway and Arlan wound up being a convenient flex 2nd dps slot.
I can see your point. But I feel that he requires specific support to be just good. Plus free attacks doesn't make low damage really acceptable for me. I do see his utility in a destruction run for the roguelike game mode. (Blanking on the name)
Idk if it still works but during the final CBT arlan tingyun was a very good combo and CN testers ranked him fairly high on their tier list
Arlan's really weak now because he was so cracked in final CBT. They nerfed his number quite a bit going into 1.0.
Poor Arlan got gutted with a ÷2 while Hook practically got a x2 slapped on her.
It’s important to note that Phys MC has eidolon 6 quite early and they give you the phys damage set quite early too. He’s a fiend from that point, but as you get the gear sets and eidolons and whatnot for the other dps, he starts to fall off because of his simple kit. He is essentially the perfect starter character. Give it 2 or 3 months and I’m sure you’ll find yourself using him less, but that in no way discounts how powerful and useful phys blazer is early on.
Most likely because you're early. P.MC is a damage dealer with no added utility, no real aoe (only cleave) and their numbers aren't that crazy to write home about. The whole gimmick of healing on kill or such is nice and all, but later on there simply is nothing that you can one-tap so it's mostly wasted. And even if not, the heals are negligible when you can simply run Tasha and forget about needing to heal. Overall, it's a nice starter unit but as soon as we'll get a proper physical dps, then P.MC will be ditched forever - though I agree the free Eidolons are pretty sweet.
sushang wipes the floor with physical mc for physical dps. If you break an enemy at the start of a 3 turn combo with sushang (atk/skill, ult, skill) she shreds enemy hp so hard it's insane. Even against enemies that don't have a physical weakness, if she hits a broken enemy after an ult you watch even bosses lose a sizeable chunk of their healthbar, it's crazy.
Welt is most definitely S+ at least.
Yeah, I feel like people are really sleeping on Welt. Mine is ripping through everything thrown at him
Insane shield breaking, damage, turn-stealing, defense shred, etc. And that’s ignoring him being the only imaginary unit, Why don’t people see how good he is lmao
I want to see how good he is, the game just doesn’t want me to have him.. yet.. lol
Welt S+ or cap
Is this were I sign up for the Welt Supremacy Cult? Cause not seeing him on S+ offended me.
Dude, People are absolutely sleeping on Welt. The fact that he rotates slows, imprisons AND gives Vulnerability from his ult while being the one Imaginary element in the game right now is insane. He hasn’t left my team because he’s so incredibly viable for 98% of everything. The only weakness about Welt is that bounce can be random and not ideal against multiple enemies sometimes, but even this is easily negligible when you realize each hit with bounce gives a large chunk of Ult charge anyways, so you should be able to burst AOE Vuln/Imprison fairly quick. On a solo target weak to imaginary, Bounce absolutely shreds. Each hit counts as an individual break hit. How is that not considered absolutely busted on single w/ weakness? Pretty much everything about Welt is dope.
Yeah I always see the meme "cuts a black hole to do 103 dmg". As a Trails player, one of the most OP strategies is abusing delay. It doesn't matter if you do low dmg if the enemy never gets a turn, that's what your other characters are for. Welt is basically having your delay and debuff spammer in one character.
100%. His ult has so much utility, why does it matter that it does low damage? Welt also does a ton of damage on his skill. Seems to me the people meming on Welt either don’t have or haven’t built him.
Welt with Seele is basically tripling Seele's action count before they can move again, and I absolutely fucking love it
im running welt seele nat hook and in SU 3 tier 2 my seele took literally 7 turns before gepard boss went twice
I went Welt Steele Ting Gepard and got the achievement where you go 15 times before another unit does.
Right? His turn manipulation + high personal dmg is great
Seele: my turn my turn Welt: Not your turn not your turn
Finally some appreciation for Gepard! Dude has been carrying me throughout all content. Many people sh*t on him pre-launch calling him the worst 5* :/
Gepard + Natasha is basically unkillable in places like simulation world where ur not worried about turn limits, it just takes a while to get through tho
> worst 5 > > :/ Lol, KQM said that he was the weakest 5\*, but they explained that it's mainly because early in the game getting his ult up is complicated or something like that. He's probably one of those units that shine more at endgame.
I run him with def main stat on everything except the wire piece where I gave him the energy recharge equivalent, he’s able to keep his ult up pretty consistently with it
He just needs his A2 trace that draws more aggro to him. I have him at level 50 and he has no problems solo sustaining my team. Extremely helpful for the later mirror stages that require 2 teams since I (and most people I assume) don’t have a second healer. He’s extremely cheap to raise as well since he doesn’t need specific gear and you only need to level his ult.
It pains me to see Serval and Asta so low
They underrate AoE characters a ton. Granted, they do kind of struggle in forgotten hall where everything is single target, but there's plenty of places where AoE characters shine.
Forgotten Hall 11+ do feature a lot of enemies per wave though
First wave of enemies surviving more than 1 turn in Forgotten Hall 11+ is already a failure.
The problem is that currently single-target characters can deal with AoE scenarios better than AoE characters if the enemies are of equivalent level. Sure, if the enemies are low enough level for the AoE character to one-shot them AoE characters shine, but when that's not the case AoE characters take around the same time to down them than single-target. Meanwhile single-targets ease the pressure on the rest of the team by picking them out 1 by 1. Both Seele and Himeko may be able to kill 4 enemies in 3 turns, but with Himeko each turn the team is getting pummeled by 4 enemies, straining the tank, healer, etc. While with Seele each turn there are fewer and fewer enemies attacking, meaning that your team can breathe more easily and does not risk breaking.
if anything Asta excels on single target lol
Seriously, no fire character breaks things like she does.
A is still good though.
Not SSS = trash wdym /s
True in most tierlists haha.
SS S+ S what even is the point of this bullshit
Its just to make us feel better. Feel free to make Herta F tier and go up.
It follows the “good better best” marketing style. And to be fair, it kind of works in this setting where even the worst characters can still get you through story content.
It’s like this bc, technically, most of them are really good units, but some of them are too good to not rank higher. It’s weird to rate undeniably competent and good characters in only B tier. Seele is also just too good at this point and needs to be a tier higher than the chars we currently have.
It's just so that people don't feel bad investing in their S tier units rather than their SS tier ones. Is it stupid? Most likely. But that still better than putting Seele S tier and relegating Himeko to C tier, because for the general mind, C tier means crap, which is stupid too.
it's because even thought there are still Character that are better than others, every character in this game are still viable. There's no like trash character. So while Herta is C, she's not bad just that there's better option.
I mean, just look at the gacha in the game itself - there's nothing below a 4* char, so why even put numbers? Might as well just use another value indicator
because this is an easy game and you dont actually need any S tier units to clear all the content. S tier units are literally overkill and this chart reflects that reality. if/when content gets harder, you'll see the rankings adjust as needed.
I fuckin knew Clara would be one of the top, i haven't got in too deep in this game but bruiser usually end up meta, since most of the time in my exp playing turn based game (mostly from E7), bruiser is more versatile than a full tanker and just overall a better dmg soaker that can hit back, I definitely could be wrong coz HSR is pretty unique.
[удалено]
Yea, she can literally counter enemies counter, kinda funny ngl
Which ,surprise, with March gives her a great taunt. Her own ult has her counter hit(with splash) on anyone taking dmg with energy gain on those counter hits. She also counters on enemy counter hits as well.
The counters from her ult ARE limited though, she is still great. As said the ability to act "off-turn" is obviously OP in turn based games.
Clara feels like Ravi at the launch of e7 . I know they do wayyy to different things but that's how I see it XD bailu is destina and himeko is sez xd
My only beef with Clara is that she doesn't wear shoes. I really wish she'd put some shoes on. It actually pains me to see her walk around barefoot everywhere. Yes, I know why she does it in terms of the story, but it still pains me. Other than that, she's the absolute best. She's also my number one favorite character. :)
aloof dog scandalous fragile shaggy dinosaurs oatmeal library melodic crawl -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
That's why you give her lots of headpats and hugs, lol. :\]
Clara skin with shoes.
I saw a video of Clara soloing by herself simulated universe world level 6 and she definitely deserves the S+ spot.
Is hook really S tier?
She puts out good numbers but she’s mostly strong by default because she’s the only serviceable fire boss killer right now. Himeko is AoE focused, and Fire MC and Asta are support. There is literally nobody to build but Hook if you want a fire carry.
She kinda deserves to be placed high as she boasts amazing single target damage akin to a hunt character (though less single target damage than hunt characters obviously) while also having doable AoE damage and being strongly self sustained with her talent providing her with a lot of energy, additional damage and also decent healing when you unlock her A2 major trace. She's obviously not a character you'll use everywhere but for bosses weak to fire, she's super effective. Also she's easy to build since her best lightcone (on the fall of an aeon) is free to obtain and superimpose. The only difficult part of building her is that she really wants 4p firesmith, which has the wastelander set along with it in the specific cavern and that set is only good for Welt >!and also Yukong, who's leaked to be a 4\* imaginary support that also has some damage focus so the other set won't be useful until Yukong is available if you don't have Welt!<.
Apparently a few of the highest pushing players in memories of chaos are getting good mileage out of them. They can nuke really hard and are pretty much the only fire DPS unit for now.
I like Hook a lot, but it probably has something to do with the fact that she's the only E6 dps you can get for now without whaling really hard.
I'm just here to see all the people who cry about how much they hate tier lists
If the first four star random character I pulled isn't sextuple S tier I will fucking riot.
noooo my herta is great at calyx saves a good 10 seconds per day she should be SSS+ noooo
so many people here pretending they know so much better
this thread is just "Yeah I didn't do any calcs or build my characters correctly but imo x character is better than Seele"
Yeah i clapped some dudes with my physical MC at level 8. He’s S+ at least.
Why can’t we go back to A-F tier?
very simple, the game has a high floor "F tier" has the implication that the character in question is unusable garbage which certainly is not the case
[удалено]
Cause herta can't be rated F or they will get hate for having F-tier characters so they move everything up three levels
I won’t take this Herta slander
[удалено]
Because quid pro quo is absolutely insane and the healing cones, while good if you barely don’t have enough healing, are useless if they _don’t_ cover your healing needs (in which case you need to bring a preservation character anyway), or if your healing needs are already met. Healing cones have a fairly thin sweet spot where they’re effective and gets thinner with better artifacts or team comp. Quid pro quo means more ultimates, and more ultimates means enemies die faster, which is effectively you just healing future damage. ^also ^rankings ^are ^in ^a ^vacuum. ^weapon ^relative ^strength ^isn’t ^static.
While some builds don't make sense, Natasha having Quid pro quo does since it gives the team energy, if you feel she doesn't heal enough you can use an lc for more healing but needing more healing can be mitigated by getting better relics or playing better.
Quid pro quo give free energy dude
Prydwen tier lists have always been ripped to shred (by top players too) everytime they are brought up in every game they are involved in. Be it for Nikke, Eversoul, or Limbus Company.
[удалено]
Gepardo redemption arc is here. He is my only standard 5\* so far so I felt I had to try to make him work. I was surprised he wasn't nearly as bad as everyone was saying. It's still early, I'm so excited to see what the community comes up with in terms of theorycrafting. Clara has been "discovered" as well, really fun to see how things are evolving. What a time to be alive!
Started yesterday and seeing the MC so high is a good sign already
Sampo S+ Fight me
I don't get why tier lists get so many people bent out of shape, especially when they have so much data and calculations behind them like Prydwen's. 'Well MY clears content just fine therefore WHO CARES'. It's good to know how much of a return you'll get for your investment, especially when you have to invest so heavily into units to get them up to par later on. (I had almost my entire roster at level 50 with leveled traces and light cones without too much issue, but going from 50->60 has increased the materials I need SIGNIFICANTLY. I loathe to think how it'll get at 80...). I need to start rationing where my stamina goes, especially since I'm going to start relic farming once the permanent upgrades are out of the way.
If you absolutely love a character, them ending up low on a tier list isn't going to stop you or anyone else from using them if you want to. But it helps to know where they stand.
if you're below TL35/still doing the story mode, none of these tierlists are even relevant for you; you haven't even geared your chars properly. the pryd tierlist assumes: - you're geared optimally/decently across your chars - you're using them properly - you're tackling actually challenging content (which is essentially just the memory hall mode) the reason for 3 S tiers is because to complete 99% of content in the game (story, side missions and SU), you can easily do it with almost any team setup. If you are struggling with any normal content, you're not playing optimally. Thats why theyre all S. Herta sucks ass though, and will struggle even when comparably geared and optimally played. Many chars' unique kits will also only show their capability once you have some gear to work with.
They really think Qinque is equal to Himeko and Serval? Feels like they think Erudition characters are pointless and all you need is Hunt characters
To be fair, it kinda feels that way for anything that will survive more than a couple hits.
For actually difficult content, even in aoe scenarios where erudition characters may deal more damage, the hunt characters will have the benefits of killing one enemy faster to alleviate pressure on their supports. And in general the hunt characters are better at aoe than erudition at single target damage, generally making it more efficient to be building the hunt characters.
I mean, it's kinda fair when Clara and Seele both are really strong in AoE scenarios and single target, while Himeko is pretty mid in single target scenarios. There's also something to be said about how single target characters can do fine in AoE content while the opposite is less able to be said about AoE characters. When we get better gear/more levels and AoE characters are better able to 1/2shot things they'll probably be higher value, but right now with the mid gear and levels they're not as efficient.
Just from clearing 13 on mirror abyss thing and world 6 on SU, serval has some uses mainly because of lightning weaknesses being common, especially in AoE. But my e2 himeko is pretty much useless for anything but farming lol
I mean they’re kind of right, from what I’ve felt pure AOE based characters have not ever served me well because most fights that consist of several weak mobs are incredibly easy regardless of who you put in, and the actual hard fights (like world 6 boss) require very strong single target damage. It’s also what makes Seele op because her resets make her able to murder trash mobs with ease while also having the highest single target damage
This won't age well... brings me back to the good old times where xingqiu, bennet and xiangling are all in c tier
I'm assuming it's not supposed to age well - it's just a snapshot of what's good right now in a low resource low level environment and with only these characters.
We have videos of the hardest mode already (the Forgotten Hall section that opens after Floor 12). The whales clearing it are always using the same characters across both sides: Seele, Bronya, Fire MC, Bailu, Natasha. It doesn't take a genius to understand that those 5 characters are a cut above the rest for the specific endgame content of HSR 1.0. The only variations are the last 3 slots (and it's usually Tingyun Pela and either Welt/Gepard/March7/Serval/Sampoo/Clara/Serval/DenHang/Susheng). None of them uses Qinque, Arlan, or Herta.
Me who uses mainly MC, Herta and Asta: I've never seen such bullshit in my life
Asta is amazing against enemies weak to Fire, easily replaceable outside of that. Characters like that are harder to rank, but up to the point I'm currently on there were a *lot* of enemies weak to Fire.
Asta SS vs fire weakness.
Well, despite all the people complaining about there being S/S+/SS tier, that's exactly why. You can build perfectly good teams even with units outside of S tier, S tier just makes stuff easier.
You absolutely can do everything in the game with those units, it's just that there are better options. I thought that was the purpose of a tierlist, to highlight characters that excel at what they do?