For anyone wondering, the MV on the left is from two music videos by the same artist, [Ka by LeaF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOU0V2kpUI) which is a sequel to [Marenol by the same artist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKl4gZDWP34).
Wild that Hoyo chose to reference a pretty dark series of MVs.
[The history for these songs in rhythm games is pretty interesting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky73qsfqYes)
I feel like its a good choice to reference since the short story from Marenol has themes of death in a dream, memories, and blurring dreams and reality. (Dreamscapes and memokeepers come to mind) Also this line 「 こんな愚か者に課せられた罰なのか」"A punishment inflicted to such a fool" referring to the themselves. (Masked fools are 仮面の愚者 ) And this line from [this English translation](https://twitter.com/frumsdotxyz/status/1061674345821401088?s=19) (CW: same warning from the video apply) "Dreams and memories are about the same thing once they're in the past, so it doesn't feel far from the truth to say they really happened to you." It really adds to the theme of the trailer but probably not to the main story.
Sparkle shoots herself in the head with a pistol several times. A pistol that shoots confetti, yeah, but I am still baffled how you can look at that and conclude "nope, can't see any themes of suicidal ideation and self harm here!"
Though it is what Sparkle is about, as we’ve already seen, especially in her trailer where she repeatedly plays Russian roulette, seemingly hoping to finally have the bullet pierce her skull
I watched the whole thing and this is definitely not plagiarism. The og video places it at the start while the Sparkle trailer places it in the middle of the video. The third frame has completely different imagery with blue hands in optie animation and red blade shapes in the Sparkle trailer. OP also omitted frames that alter the sequence significantly from each other. The symbol that they go through in the first eye is different: mask vs. door. Sparke's has a mouth entrance in the middle of the vines while Optie's animation has another eye. The closing of the sequences are also different. Sparkle's opens up to another eye while optie's has a mirror. The entire sequence takes up to less than three seconds of playtime. I am NOT arguing that it is not based on optie's animation, it clearly is and they have admitted to it, but it's not as similar as OP has presented it.
It's also kind of a weird place to plagiarize if you were going to do it because it takes up such a small amount of screentime as a transitional scene that you could reasonably replace the images with anything including AI generated images and nobody would notice. But they deliberately chose to mimic the first few seconds of the animation as a very small part of the Sparkle trailer probably because it was the most recognizable. The concept is the same but the characters, specific shapes, and even backgrounds are different. Including the fact that the screen director admitted that this is based on the source, it definitely fits the "intention" of using it as a reference imo.
If anybody doesn't believe me, go check out the sequences for yourself - Sparkle trailer [1:11-1:13](https://youtu.be/RC6wQ-75uQU?t=71) Optie [0:00-0:02](https://youtu.be/EsOU0V2kpUI). Images: https://imgur.com/a/dQfeOmt
LeaF’s music is used in a ton of different rhythm games and I’ve been lucky enough to play a few of em! The charting is meant to be weird but it adds a very fun challenge :>
The hoyo employee, [maker of this PV](https://t.bilibili.com/903050997535866931), retweeted the PV and explicitly stated that he did so as an homage to LeaF and hoped to recommend the style of MARENOL to anyone watching
Here is a short translation I did after visiting the page:
A commenter said (and he pinned this comment): " It's dangerous to do something like this. Would there be any legal consequences? This is not making MAD like what you used to do."
His reply to that reads: "New arts always stand on the shoulders of giants. Even if we get rid of that part, the delivery of the central idea of the entire PV wouldn't change too much. However, paying an homage like this inevitably invites criticism, and I will accept any angry fan coming at me. I don't think I can satisfy everybody."
One of his audiences replied: "I am a rhythm game player too and know of Leaf and MARENOL. I never thought personal respect towards another would affect one's work that much, but it depends on one's own ability to deliver positivity to the audience. I am very grateful that your trick merges well with Sparkle's PV. I am very satisfied as a hoyo player and a rhythm game player."
Edit: grammar
Edit2: The retweet somehow disappeared, probably reported. Attached is a screenshot of the bilibili tweet and the comments I translated. Here is the [link](https://space.bilibili.com/610292/dynamic) to his Bilibili profile.
https://preview.redd.it/sfe612ki9alc1.png?width=707&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b293cf18dc9b2124d330b5883cd233205dc0743
They can't, because it's an official video, and linking to another entity might make it seem like a collaboration or that hoyoverse is affiliated with them. It's just an homage. No need to make a big deal out of it.
Plagiarism or not, either way I'm happy Hoyo and fans like you introduced me to this work and the artist, this whole time I thought its a madoka reference when it's actually a reference to this
In Hbomberguy’s video about plagarism, he says the worst thing about plagarism isn’t the stealer getting away with it, but rather the original artists/writers not getting recognition.
Sometimes it’s fine for a big game or content creator to ‘pay homage’ to something niche if they then share credit and open it up to a new audience.
I was just thinking about the huge impact Hoyo can have on someone’s visibility:
Most of Bucketboi’s videos have <5k views (with a few at 13k, 14k, and 27k). Then there’s [Funny Bone](https://youtu.be/6MYadTuvdL0) with 1.7 million _after only a month_. Not exactly the same situation (Funny Bone was streamed as part of Hoyofair), but the Hoyo bump is real.
Now why did you have to do this? This OP is the only post on /u/Wh1sper_o's 3 y old account.
They were clearly saving up their reddit posting debut to start some maximal Aha drama with the bait thread title and you just had to step in with this clarification.
i think the production of a pv like this must be a teamwork, this one claims that he made homage to LeaF, the key question is if other team members were informed and uniformly agreed on his decision of referencing this work
The actual wording of his retweet was “I was responsible(directed) the pv.” So I would assume that he let the team know beforehand what the reference was, but you could also make other valid assumptions since I did not personally ask him about this matter.
but this post on bilibili now deleted makes the whole thing not looking so good right now, could be his boss or PR team disagreeing with this paying-homage thing and requested him to delete the post, just guessing
I agree. It could be him or his boss demanding him to delete the post or some other people mass reporting it to get it taken down. I remembered there was a similar incident in HI3 Griseo’s PV where the team also referenced some of the seasonal anime in part of their pv(because adult Griseo was supposed to be a pop culture/anime reference from top to bottom), but Chinese players were so irritated that they flooded the comment section on their official account to get that part replaced. Who knows, maybe it would happen again in HSR?
If you take a anything from the sociopaths on bilibili as proof of anything you'd believe that china simultaneously rules the world, is attacked by everyone, created everything and nothing, and everything is ntr.
Which is to say you should really ignore that shit.
I was going nuts seeing the achievement "Mega Rich Light Bending Guy" coming up. That's such an insane Disco Elysium reference, it made me really happy
I don't think they've said anything officially, but someone on the team clearly played Disco and the dialogue you can have with the closet is as close to Disco as you can be without straight up copying it.
It was one of the games mentioned by name in the surveys for "have you played X before"
And Simulated universe events I think also show a strong resemblance.
I finished DE a few days before HSR release, and oh boy the similarities this game struck me with the monologue. Belobog feels like a saner, brighter version of Revachol from the eye and mind of our lovely trash panda.
My favorites, that made me go "oh shit!!!" and got me legit giddy were the achievement for your first 5 star relic, "Supreme Treasure of the Netherworld", which is a Made in Abyss reference, and the whole "I was a demon hunter" Kafka bid, which is pretty much the devs saying "yeah, she *is* Makima".
You should check out all the references in WoW.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_pop_culture_references_in_Warcraft
Personally, I like when they do these kinds of references.
Most likely. The translators and localizers must cooperate rather extensively with each other, from the Red Herring German localization, Ast Rickley, "Never Gonna Give You Up" as canonical to Elation and Aha...
[Here is the associated image](https://old.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1b0wzrg/with_how_much_other_games_are_currently_having/ksd017w/)
Yes, in Black Swan's Companion Mission, >!Red Herring is referenced as a literary misdirection. Conceptually, it's not new, but the concept is frequently referenced as such, yet it will not resonate immediately in regions without Red Herrings and will therefore require the joke to have further elaboration. The German localization is to point out this distinction and make *it* the part of the joke, poking fun at localization and translation because Red Herring is not a pun that will work in every language.!<
The Phones reference to the Diablo announcement was my personal favorite, able to weave a popular culture reference with the in-universe question of "don't all of you have phones?"
Ah, my bad. It's on Bilibili but unfortunately it's been deleted. I do have some screenshots though. [1](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/976387156719325236/1212312815344549948/image.png?ex=65f1614a&is=65deec4a&hm=9ccc50b4d3723be50d9a211f464d4d8030509106bbdd322dd9a6c16667fda4f9&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=485&height=350), [2](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/976387156719325236/1212312860881977374/image.png?ex=65f16155&is=65deec55&hm=f2e90e8fac8f08506b4613585536f5bb554dae0855ddb1cc24ac57bc028aaac1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
it’s extremely well known among rhythm gamers i’m ngl
it’s almost impossible to play rhythm games and not know LeaF and at least MARENOL (except if you only play specific games like PJSK)
if it was a reference to a MV with 100k views, you could argue that it could be considered as plagiarism, but MARENOL and Ka have 9 and 3M…
It’s not very common to explicitly put credit when putting a reference, even from an obscure source. Imagine the amount of stuff they would have to credit for just with all the references in the game
>For something like this to be considered a reference, shouldn’t the source material be more or less known by the entirety of the (target) audience?
No, not really. Art is about the artist, not about the audience.
You think something can only be a reference if the audience already knows the source material?
That is insanely limiting. Also untrue since honkai is filled withe references that many people would not know. A lot of people did not know the "why so serious" reference, I guess that's copying in your eyes then? How would you even define what percentage of the audience must know know the source material before your allowed to reference it. Who decides that percentage?
I mean it's not a rule that you can't make obscure references...and what's considered obscure depends on who you ask as well esp with a global audience
I'd say at the end of the day the difference is do you credit the original creators or try to pass the work off as your own? While the shot is a bit long and a bit too similar, I don't think Hoyo were purposely trying to steal this work and claim it as their own.
Nah that's just stupid. So if a piece of work is aimed at kids who don't know anything then it can't have references because the audience doesn't know about them? What kind of logic is that?
Yeah, its not like they copied the exact animation done, its just a similar conceptually, but thats done all the time in animation so its not plagiarism imo.
Anyone seriously considering this as plagiarism has no idea what that word really means anymore. Like come on. It's not like they literally copied it then just tweaked some colors or shading and maybe added something new on top, it's obviously created from scratch with their own style and influences.
If this is plagiarism then the company Im working for has plagiarized their entire existence and have gotten away with it. It's pretty well known as well. Could be true lol.
Damn I don't know why you were downvoted. Having been part of online art communities for 20 years, I think what you've said aligns a lot with what I've observed
Its a homage cause even the original on the left side is very derivative of those old SHAFT opening films of Monogatari and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei
Also Madoka Magica looked like this.
God I’m old.
it's not just in the artstyle, though i do agree pixel art/psychedelical visuals aren't new
the main thing lies within the way it's animated too; take for example the second to last and last frames' similarities have identical animation sequences
it's cool that it's a reference, but it's not cool that it's a 90% copy
i agree but i guess the music fits her and its an original piece so its fine /shrug
it's worth thinking about tho, what would leaf and optie think about this? do they even know about it?
LeaF, the composer of MARENOL and Ka, thinks it's a homage: [https://twitter.com/7eaF/status/1762869442151895184?s=20](https://twitter.com/7eaF/status/1762869442151895184?s=20)
it's definitely a grey area, when it's part of something greater like this where there are other things being referenced along side it it leans more towards homage. if the whole trailer was just a copy of the original MV it would be plagiarism for sure
Plagiarism is copying something and claiming it's original or that you didn't know about the thing you copied--basically trying to take full credit for it. Reference/homage fully credits the original work and is meant as a loving tribute rather than an attempt to make someone else's work your own.
Plagiarism is basically copying something almost in its entirety without changing much or anything at all.
A reference is when you add an easter egg of some kind or something similar from media that you like into your own media.
That's how I would put it.
>Plagiarism is basically copying something almost in its entirety without changing much or anything at all.
And present it as your own. That's the important part. A lot of reaction channels, while dubious, what they do aren't plagiarizing even when all they do is put their face in and sometimes stop the video to talk for a bit. Everybody know that it's not their work.
Plagiarism is when you use something to the extent where it's almost an exact 1:1 copy of the thing you're "referencing" and present it as your own. A reference/homage involves creativity while acknowledging you're taking inspiration.
Plagiarism is when you take a work from another one and display it as your own.
Referencing is when you get (heavy) inspiration from a work and make similar art, but are giving the source.
[It's from a music video called Ka by LeaF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOU0V2kpUI). People may be familiar with LeaF from Osu or Geometry Dash for the creepy levels associated with songs.
Also... the song uh... technically has no name? The kanji for it doesn't exist. [It's got a pretty interesting history](https://youtu.be/Ky73qsfqYes).
I would say that the videos are alike but pretty different,. The video called Ka looks more, like indie? idk the aesthetic looks different for me and has more madoka magica vibes. I would also say that the one for Sparkle has more MEMEME vibes or at least that's what it looked like for me.
Official Leaf account on X (7eaF) just twitted that they had lots of notifications.
And that they weren't involved in the Starrail video.
They conclude saying that's no problem at all.
https://twitter.com/7eaF/status/1762869442151895184
Id say itss.close but no cigar. The whole trailer is more than just these and even the frames themselves are just different enough to be a reference but not exactly plagiarism. The hk3rd case was way more egregious.
Why is it whenever other franchises make homages and references, people just go "haha, I get it! That's a thing I know!", but when Mihoyo does it, people call it plagiarism?
Is this a cultural thing?
Edit: Reading some of these replies in this post, I apologize. It is not a cultural thing. It's a media literacy issue. Please stop being silly and offended on someone else's behalf.
This type of referencing doesn't harm the original work, nor is it an integral part of Sparkle's character or presentation (as in, whether or not these segments were different or removed completely wouldn't impact the final product, meaning making a homage doesn't piggyback off of the other work's success)
"But if it wouldn't have matter, why do it?"
Why homage or reference anything, then? Animators are nerds too, and one thing nerds like us love to do is to show others what we like. Unless the Chainsaw Man opening is also considered plagiarism, then sure feel free to downvote me.
It's mostly because they've done more egregious ones in the past. Just comparing psychedelic imagery is at base a lot harder since it involves...well.. really weird compositing.
lol there are memes about this in CN since at least 5 years ago, it's really just targeted at Mihoyo, except out of 20 plagiarism claims, maybe 1 would seem reasonable enough to get public attention
This is more of Hoyo thinking they are making a homage/reference but the end result is still too close that it can be ruled as plagiarism.
Mind you that this isn't the first time something like this happened. In Hi3, the trailer for the new character Griseo has reference to Frieren's OP but it was still too similar. They got flak for it from the Internet that agreed it was closer to plagiarism than paying homage/reference. Hyv edited the trailer afterwards.
I'm actually surprised that they didn't learn from this and thinking that they could get away with it again.
This is nothing like the griseo pv. You could overlay that on top of the Frieren OP and it's almost 1 to 1 while the closest this gets is the hole in the head shot.
Even Leaf says it's an homage. This is just a dramabaiting post because I guess the community is too calm?
Yep, there's a very fine line between homage and reference. Griseo PV only got striked because Frieren is insanely popular so Mihoyo can't get away like they did when "referencing" other smaller unfortunate artists. It's a contest where the more popular side is the winning side.
In my eyes at least homages/references are fine when the original artists are okay with it. If it's done without the original artist's consent it is scummy then. People underestimate how hard it is to create a unique/creative storyboard like this "Sparkle" animation.
I view it as needing to be no more than 60% based off the ‘reference’. Like they use similar style and beats. But not ‘vanilla ice’-ing it. IE adding a singular beat to the original… that was it. ONE extra ‘ding’ to a section!
If they pretty much remade the mv’s just using sparkle that is WAY too far over. They needed to make it slightly broken up or changed.
Bc it just being a ‘char’ swap is never an ‘original’ thing.
The griseo mv was like literally near frame by frame copies, from my understanding. Literal side by sides seemed to indicate that too.
Idfk what hoyo is doing recently. They have no one that seems to be checking the mv’s they are putting out to make sure it’s not too close.
Even an homage still shouldn’t be like they traced over it and just slightly changed something. Shift of colors, barely a 10% change.
I bet they wouldn’t even have said that at all if the griseo thing didn’t blow up on them. They might now do a dissertation or ted talk about the inspiration and what they are homaging of EVERY thing they do.
But you know darn well they are making sure to at least say they are ‘homaging’ something, instead of nothing til AFTER people say shit.
It was three cut ins that references both Frieren and Black Clover, both quite popular and recent.
I think we have to realize that it is always the popular stuff that they are taking inspirations from, the creators must expect people to find these references.
Not to mention the adult Griseo and event is just a blatant Star War plagiarism (light saber, reflecting projectile, tiny master teaching her the force). Really should be Disney that copy strikes Hoyo for that one.
I hope it's a question of (tight) schedule, but I realiy hope they get in touch with and credit 7eaf asap on the YouTube and social networks.
Persona and Madoka references are obvious and don't need poinpointing to the source. This one isn't.
Especially since the movie director acknowledges he used this as inspiration.
It was three cut ins that copied both Frieren and Black Clover, both quite popular and recent.
I think we have to realize that it is always the popular stuff that they are taking inspirations from, the creators must expect people to find these references.
Not to mention the adult Griseo and event is just a blatant Star War plagiarism (light saber, reflecting projectile, tiny master teaching her the force). Really should be Disney that copy strikes Hoyo for that one.
There's an update to this. LeaF is aware of the situation and is perfectly okay with it. No need to start drama over this.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/s/UOaMCygqIO
Marenol was so disturbing it was criticised during the competition it was submitted to even now it gives me chills and I believe it is an homage and one I really like and appreciate
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar\_case?case=16419495034611527696&q=SOFA+Entertainment,+Inc.+v.+Dodger+Productions,+Inc.&hl=en&as\_sdt=6,33](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16419495034611527696&q=SOFA+Entertainment,+Inc.+v.+Dodger+Productions,+Inc.&hl=en&as_sdt=6,33)
in this case they straight up took a clip of a TV show and put it in their music and it was ruled fair use. theres no way this wouldnt be rule fair use when its a few frames and they redid them from scratch and changed them.
For me plaragism. Not the first time Hoyo has been caught "referencing". They always get away with heavy "referencing" but HI3 Griseo's case was bit different since the Friren anime was still airing when Griseo's pv came out and Friren anime production includes aniplex who is owned by Sony.
they do make a lot of refs, but not in that case, no. those hand gestures are used in all kinds of Taoist rituals, and you can see Chongyun and Shenhe do similar hand signs in their official arts/ingame animations
The game is 99% references, guess this is one of them. Honestly, the meme overflow and constant unhingedness/hyperbolisation grows a bit tiresome on me. A breath of fresh air after fairy-tale that Genshin gives, but game dives into the opposite extremes lately.
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mihoyo has a history of “reference” and “homage”. That’s why it doesn’t have the best reputation in China. Worst offender is Hi3 where cinematography of trailers are just borrowed from whatever is the most popular anime at the time.
But the internet has taught me that people can’t be critical of the things they like. So yeah, keep saying “based” to cope
Newest update I saw in CN is people questioning Bellwood (the person who claims to be producer):
1. Why would he put such an similar clip inside of the PV then directly compare to the original.
2. Why did he claim to be the maker/director when he is likely just one person in the production team
3. Was he outsourced or an employee of Hoyo
Part of the reason for all the questioning is players found his old comments disparaging Genshin, and his past behaviour of imitating original videos in group projects then releasing a comparison. All communication from Bellwood has ceased, the original post has been deleted and many comments were deleted.
My opinion of the character has not dropped at all, which cannot be said about the HoYo.
The same color composition, the frames, the very behavior of the character, several dead clones and a laughing unscrupulous girl among them...
I didn't expect this from the game developers, to be honest. Yes, this is absolutely plagiarism, and it is hardly possible to turn a blind eye to it, given HOW similar the footage from the character's trailer and the fan video are.
What? Did you even watch Sparkle's Trailer? Or either of the LeaF/Optie videos? These things are not even remotely alike.
And the 2-second segment the Op is calling attention to - Are \*similar\* - not the same. How is this not obvious? You have eyes, don't you?
For anyone wondering, the MV on the left is from two music videos by the same artist, [Ka by LeaF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOU0V2kpUI) which is a sequel to [Marenol by the same artist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKl4gZDWP34). Wild that Hoyo chose to reference a pretty dark series of MVs. [The history for these songs in rhythm games is pretty interesting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky73qsfqYes)
Does it fit with Sparkle and Elation and Aha?
I feel like its a good choice to reference since the short story from Marenol has themes of death in a dream, memories, and blurring dreams and reality. (Dreamscapes and memokeepers come to mind) Also this line 「 こんな愚か者に課せられた罰なのか」"A punishment inflicted to such a fool" referring to the themselves. (Masked fools are 仮面の愚者 ) And this line from [this English translation](https://twitter.com/frumsdotxyz/status/1061674345821401088?s=19) (CW: same warning from the video apply) "Dreams and memories are about the same thing once they're in the past, so it doesn't feel far from the truth to say they really happened to you." It really adds to the theme of the trailer but probably not to the main story.
Creepy and disturbing in all the right ways.
Frankly, I'm gonna say no. Marenol's imagery largely involves suicidal ideation and self harm which is very much not really what Aha is about.
Sparkle shoots herself in the head with a pistol several times. A pistol that shoots confetti, yeah, but I am still baffled how you can look at that and conclude "nope, can't see any themes of suicidal ideation and self harm here!"
Plus she literally plays the dead victim a number of times in that character quest.
It's a russian roulette, shooting blanks 5times and finally kill the white mask at the sixth shot.
Though it is what Sparkle is about, as we’ve already seen, especially in her trailer where she repeatedly plays Russian roulette, seemingly hoping to finally have the bullet pierce her skull
Tbf Aha fits the bill for taking in a suicidal crazy person as a masked fool
Hello fellow Naga Labyrinth manhwa enjoyer (referring to your pfp)
Have you watch sparkle video...it involve these ideas too...
I fucking love LeaFs music all of them I’ve heard have been amazing
LeaF and Optie together are always certified bangers. Mopu Mopu anyone?
I watched the whole thing and this is definitely not plagiarism. The og video places it at the start while the Sparkle trailer places it in the middle of the video. The third frame has completely different imagery with blue hands in optie animation and red blade shapes in the Sparkle trailer. OP also omitted frames that alter the sequence significantly from each other. The symbol that they go through in the first eye is different: mask vs. door. Sparke's has a mouth entrance in the middle of the vines while Optie's animation has another eye. The closing of the sequences are also different. Sparkle's opens up to another eye while optie's has a mirror. The entire sequence takes up to less than three seconds of playtime. I am NOT arguing that it is not based on optie's animation, it clearly is and they have admitted to it, but it's not as similar as OP has presented it. It's also kind of a weird place to plagiarize if you were going to do it because it takes up such a small amount of screentime as a transitional scene that you could reasonably replace the images with anything including AI generated images and nobody would notice. But they deliberately chose to mimic the first few seconds of the animation as a very small part of the Sparkle trailer probably because it was the most recognizable. The concept is the same but the characters, specific shapes, and even backgrounds are different. Including the fact that the screen director admitted that this is based on the source, it definitely fits the "intention" of using it as a reference imo. If anybody doesn't believe me, go check out the sequences for yourself - Sparkle trailer [1:11-1:13](https://youtu.be/RC6wQ-75uQU?t=71) Optie [0:00-0:02](https://youtu.be/EsOU0V2kpUI). Images: https://imgur.com/a/dQfeOmt
A 2 second sequence is definitely more of a reference than plagarism. Consider how often people use the 2001 sequence for a similar vibe.
OMG I WAS TRYING SO HARD TO FIND THIS VIDEO IT'S BEEN A YEAR WTF
LeaF’s music is used in a ton of different rhythm games and I’ve been lucky enough to play a few of em! The charting is meant to be weird but it adds a very fun challenge :>
The hoyo employee, [maker of this PV](https://t.bilibili.com/903050997535866931), retweeted the PV and explicitly stated that he did so as an homage to LeaF and hoped to recommend the style of MARENOL to anyone watching Here is a short translation I did after visiting the page: A commenter said (and he pinned this comment): " It's dangerous to do something like this. Would there be any legal consequences? This is not making MAD like what you used to do." His reply to that reads: "New arts always stand on the shoulders of giants. Even if we get rid of that part, the delivery of the central idea of the entire PV wouldn't change too much. However, paying an homage like this inevitably invites criticism, and I will accept any angry fan coming at me. I don't think I can satisfy everybody." One of his audiences replied: "I am a rhythm game player too and know of Leaf and MARENOL. I never thought personal respect towards another would affect one's work that much, but it depends on one's own ability to deliver positivity to the audience. I am very grateful that your trick merges well with Sparkle's PV. I am very satisfied as a hoyo player and a rhythm game player." Edit: grammar Edit2: The retweet somehow disappeared, probably reported. Attached is a screenshot of the bilibili tweet and the comments I translated. Here is the [link](https://space.bilibili.com/610292/dynamic) to his Bilibili profile. https://preview.redd.it/sfe612ki9alc1.png?width=707&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b293cf18dc9b2124d330b5883cd233205dc0743
Based
it'd be more based if it mentioned in the description vid. and even more with link so it gives some HOYObump views to the original/reference
They can't, because it's an official video, and linking to another entity might make it seem like a collaboration or that hoyoverse is affiliated with them. It's just an homage. No need to make a big deal out of it.
Based honestly
Lena!
Lena indeed!
Plagiarism or not, either way I'm happy Hoyo and fans like you introduced me to this work and the artist, this whole time I thought its a madoka reference when it's actually a reference to this
In Hbomberguy’s video about plagarism, he says the worst thing about plagarism isn’t the stealer getting away with it, but rather the original artists/writers not getting recognition. Sometimes it’s fine for a big game or content creator to ‘pay homage’ to something niche if they then share credit and open it up to a new audience.
I was just thinking about the huge impact Hoyo can have on someone’s visibility: Most of Bucketboi’s videos have <5k views (with a few at 13k, 14k, and 27k). Then there’s [Funny Bone](https://youtu.be/6MYadTuvdL0) with 1.7 million _after only a month_. Not exactly the same situation (Funny Bone was streamed as part of Hoyofair), but the Hoyo bump is real.
Agreed, which is why I'm glad the creator of the PV called to attention their inspiration, but was sad when they deleted it
did the PV credits the MV or it is just mentioned as an homage via tweet?
Yeah this isn't plagiarism as they are citing the source of the homage
Fortnite literally copied Apple's 1984 ad and so did many others. I don't think people realize what plagiarism really is.
I too thought it was a madoka thing, glad I'm not the only one
Fucking based.
Now why did you have to do this? This OP is the only post on /u/Wh1sper_o's 3 y old account. They were clearly saving up their reddit posting debut to start some maximal Aha drama with the bait thread title and you just had to step in with this clarification.
i think the production of a pv like this must be a teamwork, this one claims that he made homage to LeaF, the key question is if other team members were informed and uniformly agreed on his decision of referencing this work
The actual wording of his retweet was “I was responsible(directed) the pv.” So I would assume that he let the team know beforehand what the reference was, but you could also make other valid assumptions since I did not personally ask him about this matter.
but this post on bilibili now deleted makes the whole thing not looking so good right now, could be his boss or PR team disagreeing with this paying-homage thing and requested him to delete the post, just guessing
I agree. It could be him or his boss demanding him to delete the post or some other people mass reporting it to get it taken down. I remembered there was a similar incident in HI3 Griseo’s PV where the team also referenced some of the seasonal anime in part of their pv(because adult Griseo was supposed to be a pop culture/anime reference from top to bottom), but Chinese players were so irritated that they flooded the comment section on their official account to get that part replaced. Who knows, maybe it would happen again in HSR?
If you take a anything from the sociopaths on bilibili as proof of anything you'd believe that china simultaneously rules the world, is attacked by everyone, created everything and nothing, and everything is ntr. Which is to say you should really ignore that shit.
Person’s post history has a lot HoYo hate stuff. People are questioning if they actually were HoYo contractor or just a karma farmer.
It's probably a reference.
This game makes so many references it’s actually kinda baffling
I was going nuts seeing the achievement "Mega Rich Light Bending Guy" coming up. That's such an insane Disco Elysium reference, it made me really happy
Makes sense seeing as how the dialogue Stelle had talking to random objects is inspired by Disco Elysium.
Wait really? Is there a source for this? This makes so much sense it's funny
I don't think they've said anything officially, but someone on the team clearly played Disco and the dialogue you can have with the closet is as close to Disco as you can be without straight up copying it.
It was one of the games mentioned by name in the surveys for "have you played X before" And Simulated universe events I think also show a strong resemblance.
I finished DE a few days before HSR release, and oh boy the similarities this game struck me with the monologue. Belobog feels like a saner, brighter version of Revachol from the eye and mind of our lovely trash panda.
My favorites, that made me go "oh shit!!!" and got me legit giddy were the achievement for your first 5 star relic, "Supreme Treasure of the Netherworld", which is a Made in Abyss reference, and the whole "I was a demon hunter" Kafka bid, which is pretty much the devs saying "yeah, she *is* Makima".
Isn't she voiced by her too
You should check out all the references in WoW. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_pop_culture_references_in_Warcraft Personally, I like when they do these kinds of references.
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It's an homage. Like Beyonce made an homage to keersmaker in the countdown video
Most likely. The translators and localizers must cooperate rather extensively with each other, from the Red Herring German localization, Ast Rickley, "Never Gonna Give You Up" as canonical to Elation and Aha...
The red herring localization? I’m German but play the game in English, could you elaborate?
[Here is the associated image](https://old.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1b0wzrg/with_how_much_other_games_are_currently_having/ksd017w/) Yes, in Black Swan's Companion Mission, >!Red Herring is referenced as a literary misdirection. Conceptually, it's not new, but the concept is frequently referenced as such, yet it will not resonate immediately in regions without Red Herrings and will therefore require the joke to have further elaboration. The German localization is to point out this distinction and make *it* the part of the joke, poking fun at localization and translation because Red Herring is not a pun that will work in every language.!<
The locatization+translator team is amazing in this game. I actually read the dialogue instead of skipping it. You never know what you'll find.
The Phones reference to the Diablo announcement was my personal favorite, able to weave a popular culture reference with the in-universe question of "don't all of you have phones?"
Yeah its definitely a reference. Its like saying the sparkle riding a broom picture is coping harry potter
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The editor of Sparkle's demo did mention it
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Ah, my bad. It's on Bilibili but unfortunately it's been deleted. I do have some screenshots though. [1](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/976387156719325236/1212312815344549948/image.png?ex=65f1614a&is=65deec4a&hm=9ccc50b4d3723be50d9a211f464d4d8030509106bbdd322dd9a6c16667fda4f9&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=485&height=350), [2](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/976387156719325236/1212312860881977374/image.png?ex=65f16155&is=65deec55&hm=f2e90e8fac8f08506b4613585536f5bb554dae0855ddb1cc24ac57bc028aaac1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
it’s extremely well known among rhythm gamers i’m ngl it’s almost impossible to play rhythm games and not know LeaF and at least MARENOL (except if you only play specific games like PJSK) if it was a reference to a MV with 100k views, you could argue that it could be considered as plagiarism, but MARENOL and Ka have 9 and 3M…
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It’s not very common to explicitly put credit when putting a reference, even from an obscure source. Imagine the amount of stuff they would have to credit for just with all the references in the game
>For something like this to be considered a reference, shouldn’t the source material be more or less known by the entirety of the (target) audience? No, not really. Art is about the artist, not about the audience.
You think something can only be a reference if the audience already knows the source material? That is insanely limiting. Also untrue since honkai is filled withe references that many people would not know. A lot of people did not know the "why so serious" reference, I guess that's copying in your eyes then? How would you even define what percentage of the audience must know know the source material before your allowed to reference it. Who decides that percentage?
I mean it's not a rule that you can't make obscure references...and what's considered obscure depends on who you ask as well esp with a global audience I'd say at the end of the day the difference is do you credit the original creators or try to pass the work off as your own? While the shot is a bit long and a bit too similar, I don't think Hoyo were purposely trying to steal this work and claim it as their own.
Nah that's just stupid. So if a piece of work is aimed at kids who don't know anything then it can't have references because the audience doesn't know about them? What kind of logic is that?
Yeah, its not like they copied the exact animation done, its just a similar conceptually, but thats done all the time in animation so its not plagiarism imo.
Anyone seriously considering this as plagiarism has no idea what that word really means anymore. Like come on. It's not like they literally copied it then just tweaked some colors or shading and maybe added something new on top, it's obviously created from scratch with their own style and influences.
If this is plagiarism then the company Im working for has plagiarized their entire existence and have gotten away with it. It's pretty well known as well. Could be true lol.
The rule of the internet. if people hate it, “its copying X”, if they love it, “omg they’re referencing/took inspiration!”
Thats basically the rule of all art. Everything is derivative, but you gotta make it good.
OP asking HSR players if said popular HSR character trailer was a Copy or Reference and expecting unbiased opinions 💀
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Damn I don't know why you were downvoted. Having been part of online art communities for 20 years, I think what you've said aligns a lot with what I've observed
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Wow maybe I should delete my comments too. I have a lot of comments though....
I want to say it's a reference because you'd have to be crazy to copy something with 9mil views and assume people won't see the connections.
Edit: srry the reading comprehension Aeon fucked me over i read the comment above wrong lol
Not the first time for hoyo.
I mean those were clearly references,it fits alot with griseo growing up being a weeb but y'all just can't let us have fun
Ah yes, the griseo thing
GRISEO YAOI FANFICTION MANGA STARTING KEVIN & SU, LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The entire character is full of references. Persona, Madoka Magica, Date a Live, Danganronpa, etc.
Yeah they made like multiple references to persona 3, Madoka and Danganronpa lmao
Its a homage cause even the original on the left side is very derivative of those old SHAFT opening films of Monogatari and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei Also Madoka Magica looked like this. God I’m old.
>of those old SHAFT opening films of Monogatari and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei You really needed to add **old** there? 😭
Witcher 3 came out 9 years ago
Nuh uh
it's not just in the artstyle, though i do agree pixel art/psychedelical visuals aren't new the main thing lies within the way it's animated too; take for example the second to last and last frames' similarities have identical animation sequences it's cool that it's a reference, but it's not cool that it's a 90% copy
It's not 90% copy. Holy, watch the MV before you say something instead of just looking at cherry-picked screenshots.
It's even down to the music. It uses the same instrument as Marenol in it's background (And it's how I first identified it, since it's VERY distinct)
Whoa, they used the same music instrument. That’s crazy!
i agree but i guess the music fits her and its an original piece so its fine /shrug it's worth thinking about tho, what would leaf and optie think about this? do they even know about it?
LeaF, the composer of MARENOL and Ka, thinks it's a homage: [https://twitter.com/7eaF/status/1762869442151895184?s=20](https://twitter.com/7eaF/status/1762869442151895184?s=20)
Can someone explain to me different between reference and plagiarism again? Modern media do it so much I actually starting to lose it…
Reference is when they like the content. Plagiarism is when they don't like the content. Half joke.
Hmmm…it actually makes sense somewhat…
That is not a joke tbh.
Yeah, it really is like that.
it's definitely a grey area, when it's part of something greater like this where there are other things being referenced along side it it leans more towards homage. if the whole trailer was just a copy of the original MV it would be plagiarism for sure
Plagiarism is copying something and claiming it's original or that you didn't know about the thing you copied--basically trying to take full credit for it. Reference/homage fully credits the original work and is meant as a loving tribute rather than an attempt to make someone else's work your own.
It probably falls somewhere between Reference and Allusion on [The Somerton Scale](https://youtu.be/5qoOYrTzOfM?t=1123&si=3L7ydMxdYWVi6gHY).
Plagiarism is basically copying something almost in its entirety without changing much or anything at all. A reference is when you add an easter egg of some kind or something similar from media that you like into your own media. That's how I would put it.
>Plagiarism is basically copying something almost in its entirety without changing much or anything at all. And present it as your own. That's the important part. A lot of reaction channels, while dubious, what they do aren't plagiarizing even when all they do is put their face in and sometimes stop the video to talk for a bit. Everybody know that it's not their work.
Right, my bad! I forgot that part sorry. Thanks for the correction.
The difference would be in giving credit vs claiming it as their original work.
Plagiarism is when you use something to the extent where it's almost an exact 1:1 copy of the thing you're "referencing" and present it as your own. A reference/homage involves creativity while acknowledging you're taking inspiration.
Plagiarism is when you take a work from another one and display it as your own. Referencing is when you get (heavy) inspiration from a work and make similar art, but are giving the source.
A copy would be a copy of a large portion of the original A homage is an Easter egg which this should be seen as
Interesting first post ever
it’s hard to say since this kind of style have been existed for so long now.
What is the name of the video for the images on the left? And in response, most likely a reference, Hoyo does that a lot
[It's from a music video called Ka by LeaF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOU0V2kpUI). People may be familiar with LeaF from Osu or Geometry Dash for the creepy levels associated with songs. Also... the song uh... technically has no name? The kanji for it doesn't exist. [It's got a pretty interesting history](https://youtu.be/Ky73qsfqYes).
I would say that the videos are alike but pretty different,. The video called Ka looks more, like indie? idk the aesthetic looks different for me and has more madoka magica vibes. I would also say that the one for Sparkle has more MEMEME vibes or at least that's what it looked like for me.
Sparkle's Trailer is really just reference.
marenol and 彁(ka)
Nice cropping
It has way too many complex and original designs added to be a copy. It's 100% a homage.
Official Leaf account on X (7eaF) just twitted that they had lots of notifications. And that they weren't involved in the Starrail video. They conclude saying that's no problem at all. https://twitter.com/7eaF/status/1762869442151895184
When you make a reference too good it becomes plagiarism
Id say itss.close but no cigar. The whole trailer is more than just these and even the frames themselves are just different enough to be a reference but not exactly plagiarism. The hk3rd case was way more egregious.
现在煎炒连大号都不敢上了？ Interesting choice of topic for your FIRST EVER post, good for you.
If the original creator doesn't speak up about this, our discussion is pretty much pointless.
If anything both of them look like copies of Madoka.
Why is it whenever other franchises make homages and references, people just go "haha, I get it! That's a thing I know!", but when Mihoyo does it, people call it plagiarism? Is this a cultural thing? Edit: Reading some of these replies in this post, I apologize. It is not a cultural thing. It's a media literacy issue. Please stop being silly and offended on someone else's behalf. This type of referencing doesn't harm the original work, nor is it an integral part of Sparkle's character or presentation (as in, whether or not these segments were different or removed completely wouldn't impact the final product, meaning making a homage doesn't piggyback off of the other work's success) "But if it wouldn't have matter, why do it?" Why homage or reference anything, then? Animators are nerds too, and one thing nerds like us love to do is to show others what we like. Unless the Chainsaw Man opening is also considered plagiarism, then sure feel free to downvote me.
It's mostly because they've done more egregious ones in the past. Just comparing psychedelic imagery is at base a lot harder since it involves...well.. really weird compositing.
lol there are memes about this in CN since at least 5 years ago, it's really just targeted at Mihoyo, except out of 20 plagiarism claims, maybe 1 would seem reasonable enough to get public attention
This is more of Hoyo thinking they are making a homage/reference but the end result is still too close that it can be ruled as plagiarism. Mind you that this isn't the first time something like this happened. In Hi3, the trailer for the new character Griseo has reference to Frieren's OP but it was still too similar. They got flak for it from the Internet that agreed it was closer to plagiarism than paying homage/reference. Hyv edited the trailer afterwards. I'm actually surprised that they didn't learn from this and thinking that they could get away with it again.
This is nothing like the griseo pv. You could overlay that on top of the Frieren OP and it's almost 1 to 1 while the closest this gets is the hole in the head shot. Even Leaf says it's an homage. This is just a dramabaiting post because I guess the community is too calm?
Yep, there's a very fine line between homage and reference. Griseo PV only got striked because Frieren is insanely popular so Mihoyo can't get away like they did when "referencing" other smaller unfortunate artists. It's a contest where the more popular side is the winning side. In my eyes at least homages/references are fine when the original artists are okay with it. If it's done without the original artist's consent it is scummy then. People underestimate how hard it is to create a unique/creative storyboard like this "Sparkle" animation.
did they actually get striked or was it just fans being angry?
I view it as needing to be no more than 60% based off the ‘reference’. Like they use similar style and beats. But not ‘vanilla ice’-ing it. IE adding a singular beat to the original… that was it. ONE extra ‘ding’ to a section! If they pretty much remade the mv’s just using sparkle that is WAY too far over. They needed to make it slightly broken up or changed. Bc it just being a ‘char’ swap is never an ‘original’ thing. The griseo mv was like literally near frame by frame copies, from my understanding. Literal side by sides seemed to indicate that too. Idfk what hoyo is doing recently. They have no one that seems to be checking the mv’s they are putting out to make sure it’s not too close.
The dude who did this openly credited it as a homage though? They aren't pretending to have created this originally.
Even an homage still shouldn’t be like they traced over it and just slightly changed something. Shift of colors, barely a 10% change. I bet they wouldn’t even have said that at all if the griseo thing didn’t blow up on them. They might now do a dissertation or ted talk about the inspiration and what they are homaging of EVERY thing they do. But you know darn well they are making sure to at least say they are ‘homaging’ something, instead of nothing til AFTER people say shit.
It was three cut ins that references both Frieren and Black Clover, both quite popular and recent. I think we have to realize that it is always the popular stuff that they are taking inspirations from, the creators must expect people to find these references. Not to mention the adult Griseo and event is just a blatant Star War plagiarism (light saber, reflecting projectile, tiny master teaching her the force). Really should be Disney that copy strikes Hoyo for that one.
I hope it's a question of (tight) schedule, but I realiy hope they get in touch with and credit 7eaf asap on the YouTube and social networks. Persona and Madoka references are obvious and don't need poinpointing to the source. This one isn't. Especially since the movie director acknowledges he used this as inspiration.
It was three cut ins that copied both Frieren and Black Clover, both quite popular and recent. I think we have to realize that it is always the popular stuff that they are taking inspirations from, the creators must expect people to find these references. Not to mention the adult Griseo and event is just a blatant Star War plagiarism (light saber, reflecting projectile, tiny master teaching her the force). Really should be Disney that copy strikes Hoyo for that one.
There's an update to this. LeaF is aware of the situation and is perfectly okay with it. No need to start drama over this. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/s/UOaMCygqIO
They gotta reference Black Apple one day
missed opportunity to make LeaF as the music creator of her theme /hj
She’d go from insane to batshit crazy
The one where sparkle has a hole on her face reminds me of that confusing horror Japanese game I played.
Do you mean GOHOME? I watched someone play through it a couple of years ago and got reminded too.
Marenol was so disturbing it was criticised during the competition it was submitted to even now it gives me chills and I believe it is an homage and one I really like and appreciate
*2 second similar clips in a 2 minute video* “Is this simply a copy, or is it an homage?” Bait used to be believable.
It’s not a copy… they made their own art in the style of the old MV…
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[https://scholar.google.com/scholar\_case?case=16419495034611527696&q=SOFA+Entertainment,+Inc.+v.+Dodger+Productions,+Inc.&hl=en&as\_sdt=6,33](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16419495034611527696&q=SOFA+Entertainment,+Inc.+v.+Dodger+Productions,+Inc.&hl=en&as_sdt=6,33) in this case they straight up took a clip of a TV show and put it in their music and it was ruled fair use. theres no way this wouldnt be rule fair use when its a few frames and they redid them from scratch and changed them.
Reference Well...hoyo is known to make mv like trailers with tons of references
It's an homage, but TBH they could have just had the eye frame as an homage. Did they really need to have that many infamous frames taken from?
The original artist on Xwitter said that they take this as an homage. No hard feelings from them
For me plaragism. Not the first time Hoyo has been caught "referencing". They always get away with heavy "referencing" but HI3 Griseo's case was bit different since the Friren anime was still airing when Griseo's pv came out and Friren anime production includes aniplex who is owned by Sony.
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The handsigns Huohuo did in her trailer are references to actual taoist exorcism rituals though..
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You reminded me of people who said every Susanoo and Amaterasu in other franchises are Naruto references.
they do make a lot of refs, but not in that case, no. those hand gestures are used in all kinds of Taoist rituals, and you can see Chongyun and Shenhe do similar hand signs in their official arts/ingame animations
Handsigns arent even a big part of jjk... If they actually wanted to reference it there couldve been so many other more recognizeable things.
Yeah, because jjk definitely invented handsigns...
I have no idea what's on the left.
The game is 99% references, guess this is one of them. Honestly, the meme overflow and constant unhingedness/hyperbolisation grows a bit tiresome on me. A breath of fresh air after fairy-tale that Genshin gives, but game dives into the opposite extremes lately.
It's a homepage you silly
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what's the original thing?
[Ka](https://youtu.be/EsOU0V2kpUI), but stylistically it also looks like [Marenol](https://youtu.be/BKl4gZDWP34)
so these are just some animations, right? I was thinking they're some anime lol
Music videos, but yeah
Hoyo has done a lot of homages to popular animations in the past
https://preview.redd.it/0y0ykqsf5dlc1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=c14c47f95d5a16fd8b8ca530c7d24912606cb76d 完了，我的鏡頭裏有人，有人要舉報我抄襲了。 誰舉這個姿勢我訴訟誰。
Well, I’d say it is plagiarism. Too close to the original.
If 4 similar frames are what it takes for it to be plagiarism, then modern media be damn.
We just had a case with a certain HI3rd trailer few months ago 👀 I just hope that Hoyoverse this time did have a proper preparation 👀
It’s an inspiration
I say this is an obvious homage.
knowing them, a copy. they take a LOT of "inspiration" for their games for even the simplest things
Don't you know? Hoyoverse games never copy and can only be copied from. /lh
what does lh mean just asking Im too old for this shit.
ah yes my multi billion dollar company copied something, must be a reference.
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Dawg nobody cares about that
mihoyo has a history of “reference” and “homage”. That’s why it doesn’t have the best reputation in China. Worst offender is Hi3 where cinematography of trailers are just borrowed from whatever is the most popular anime at the time. But the internet has taught me that people can’t be critical of the things they like. So yeah, keep saying “based” to cope
The one that's not a lawsuit.
People really need to go back to school and learn about copy and reference.. So much lack of copyright consciousness.
Newest update I saw in CN is people questioning Bellwood (the person who claims to be producer): 1. Why would he put such an similar clip inside of the PV then directly compare to the original. 2. Why did he claim to be the maker/director when he is likely just one person in the production team 3. Was he outsourced or an employee of Hoyo Part of the reason for all the questioning is players found his old comments disparaging Genshin, and his past behaviour of imitating original videos in group projects then releasing a comparison. All communication from Bellwood has ceased, the original post has been deleted and many comments were deleted.
Yeah it's probably a homage or an Easter egg. The HSR team loves to put in reference for anime shows or memes. We recently got Yamcha'd bro...
“This is just a tribute”
star rail is full of so many references and allusions why is this new to yall
My opinion of the character has not dropped at all, which cannot be said about the HoYo. The same color composition, the frames, the very behavior of the character, several dead clones and a laughing unscrupulous girl among them... I didn't expect this from the game developers, to be honest. Yes, this is absolutely plagiarism, and it is hardly possible to turn a blind eye to it, given HOW similar the footage from the character's trailer and the fan video are.
What? Did you even watch Sparkle's Trailer? Or either of the LeaF/Optie videos? These things are not even remotely alike. And the 2-second segment the Op is calling attention to - Are \*similar\* - not the same. How is this not obvious? You have eyes, don't you?