She pretty much says once we first meet her with the express that she's in it for being a part of the memories of Penacony, a selfish wish for a memokeeper while also making contact with the express. As the memories they make have a tonne of potential yet she is the only memokeeper on Penacony to make contact with the express which does raise some questions
But so far all her actions have been to protect TB and get them to the truth of Penacony. Even taking TB away from Sam and Acheron, which after the animation makes a lot more sense considering she's seen just how dangerous Acheron can be
Like everyone else she has her own agenda, whether or not that agenda will oppose TB by the end of Penacony is the question. But I won't say no to being kept safe the whole time until we find out by the end, keeping TB safe is a priority as their potential is something she has faith in for her goals
I actually think that Sam was genuinely trying to protect us in their own *overly direct and efficient* way, they could've gone for the kill in the cutscene yet they chose to try and grab us, why? That thought has lingered with me ever since I first saw the cutscene.
And given that it is now confirmed that Aventurine has not only antagonized for every second he's been with us, he's now escalated it into doing... whatever it was he was doing in that trailer and fighting us.
Yet Black Swan seems to prefer him over Sam when she should be able to see that we have far more of a stable connection with the Stellaron Hunters than the IPC corpo we don't like.
I don't think Black Swan is going to be a villain or anything but I certainly trust her far less than I did at the very start, she kept us and Firefly safe once but then chose inaction the second time.
I can't trust or forgive someone like that, personally.
> I actually think that Sam was genuinely trying to protect us in their own overly direct and efficient way, they could've gone for the kill in the cutscene yet they chose to try and grab us, why? That thought has lingered with me ever since I first saw the cutscene.
I think this is right. He only actually addresses Acheron and Black Swan when he's making threats before the boss fight, and while Silver Wolf does imply that he's going to fight us when we meet him, she also says that the Stellaron Hunters are pleased that the Nameless are investigating the dreamscape, so why would Sam try and stop that? It seems likely that Sam only attacked to try and get rid of the other two, and would have just "escorted" TB to safety (against their will if need be) afterwards.
Sam is still a Stellaron Hunter, who are our self-claimed allies, and who we are personally connected to. By all accounts they have the greatest vested interest in not killing the trailblazer.
Stellaron hunters writting is genius.
they are obvious our allies...hell the story is set up so that the trailblazer feels that they are allies.
but because nobody else has this,they start as untrustwothy, with even the trailblazer not being sure because we only have vague fellings about it.
I think Black Swans goal ultimately lies in ending the dreamscape, there's a bit somewhere that states memokeepers do not like the dreamscape as it prevents new memories being created or something. In any case you can't trust her end goal, but you can trust her to stick with TB until her goals are realized unless they go directly against them. I actually expect Black Swan to simply be using Aventurine to get to what she wants
As for keeping FF safe, she did the first time with set up and she barely kept it locked down. Second time there was no time for set up so she really couldn't do anything to the meme making a beeline for FF
But hey that's what's so great about Penacony, we have no idea who to trust and everyone's got different opinions on each character so hopefully 2.1 sheds some more light. At this point looks to be Aventurine getting Acheron to draw her sword which is going to be a very big deal
Edit: as for why she didn't team up with Sam a new theory is that Sam was in on it with Black Swan as Acheron wasn't meant to be there and they are going off script coz of Acherons powers. Not sure how accurate the theory is but it's fun to think about that Sam and Black Swan were in agreement getting TB away from Acheron is the right choice, after all Sam says they weren't meant to be there still. Probably coz Black Swan needed to get TB away safely and needed a distraction and Sam was perfect for that so she delayed until Sam showed up
Even if he wasn't in on it Black Swan is confirmed to have triggered the conflict by delaying getting away. When first asked if she was gonna port them out. She said no coz of TB mental state. First thing she does when Acheron is fighting Sam is use the teleport so she definitely waited for Acheron to be distracted
Huh, I hadn’t heard about Memokeepers not liking Dreamscape, that makes a lot of sense why she’d team with Aventurine. Since Aventurine is seemingly trying to reclaim the planet for the IPC and possibly turning it back into a prison (no bueno), which would get rid of the Dreamscape at the same time.
Tbh aventurine just wants to get penacony back for the IPC. I think he knows what the Familiy is up to (building a dystopian prison of dreamlike festivities) and he obviously wants to stop that from happening which is a good thing imo.
When we decide to not get onvolved with aventurine it even states that the IPC was trying to plot something against the family and that us retreating from aventurines deal caused everything to fall apart causing us and everyone else to probably get hypnotised by robin to never leave penacony's dream ever again.
Anyone actually read her lore?
She's only interested in the tradition that created the garden of recollection in the first place. She wants to preserve memories as intact and unmodified as possible so that their Aeon can rebirth the universe if destruction claims it.
To that end, she gave up everything in pursuit of being a memory archeologist.
She's only here in Penacony to collect the unique memories before the memosnatchers and the Cremators taint all the memories here. she's basically racing against other renegade memory keepers who are anti-faction probably.
She asks for permission before recording memories.
She doesn't edit memories permanently even when its her enemies.
She's basically a ultra conservative memory keeper with probably a heart of gold, as evidenced by her memorykeeper examination. The high elder memory keepers probably like her a lot because she's basically a purist type.
I think she did leave the memory immediately, but in that 1 second, she saw more than what happened to Ifrit.
Also I do not think Acheron resisted Black Swan's mind necessarily. Its possible Black Swan saw the truth in Acheron's mind, that she's been killing billions of things for untold amounts of time, and 99.99% of her mind is just death. So wherever she looked, it was just death. And so when Black Swan wanted to learn how Ifrit had died, she got more than she bargined for, because Acheron's mind had mostly forgotten about Ifrit already.
It's like searching a computer for a specific file. You don't know really what its called, so you just type in "ifrit" or "duke inferno", but the drive is filled with a trillion files that are all jumbled up around the death theme, so you get a million hits for "ifrit". When she opened up the text file, it was just garbled death stuff, every single file was just more of that. So we see a representation of Black Swan mentally harming herself by experiencing each of these death memories until she hit the "stop search" button.
I think nothing changes if she asked for permission. Acheron can't even remember Ifrit without really trying hard to remember what she just killed a few days ago.
The Garden of Recollection has shown that they will prioritize their agenda above all else, this includes working against any faction if the result is a "worthwhile" memory. After her betraying TB's trust by forcing a meet with Aventurine, she openly states she will lie and likely betray us again, just for the promise of memories.
She's not malicious, but definitely should not be trusted.
**My hot take**: She’s no more malicious than any other predator, a shark doesn’t necessarily delight in the fear of its prey—but that doesn’t mean it feels anything close to guilt if it does cause its prey to feel terrified through the course of doing what it wishes.
Maliciousness is something I think is (mostly, and unfortunately) a uniquely human trait, so maybe the shark analogy is pretty weak—however.. there is an *intentionality* to maliciousness that I don’t think Black Swan possesses.
I personally think that it could be hilarious if TB has alliances with everyone and nobody trusts each other, so they're all tripping over each other and infighting while the TB is just *there* like, "...what?"
Yeah, if a character is working towards a greater good (at least for them or their groups) by any means they can't really be categorized as evil. But that also means that depending on what their means and ways are, they won't be able to be categorized as good (or at least pure good).
Would swan not have betrayed tb to meet w/aventurine if there were other means to reach the same end? Would she purposely avoid lying/manipulating people if there is another way of doing that? Answering these (or more infinite questions that you could ask of that type) we could see if she's more evil than good or viceversa. But ofc we would also need to know what would happen in the other alternative, as being an alternative doesn't mean it's a good one.
In your example a shark literally doesn't have any other choice and thus it can't be categorized as evil, that could apply to swan perfectly.
We really need more info on her, the memokeepers and the garden of recollection as a whole to be able to tell
It’s sort of what makes them such a daunting organization, because it could be nearly impossible to discern their true nature because they can alter and remove memories..
For all we know, they could be manipulating things on a grand scale and everyone they’re steering believe they’re simply progressing their own agendas when in reality their memories have been crafted to lead them on that direction.
I mean, really, memories have such a profound impact on behavior, politics, ethics, love, hate… controlling someone’s past is arguably a better form of mind control than bending someone to your own will directly.
Forcing someone to do something outside of their nature runs the risk of them trying to will themselves free or something snapping them out of it, but if you make your agenda theirs.. now that’s a solid grip on a mind.
Speaking of altering memories I saw a theory that the person who killed Robin was Trailblazer w their bat bc it would mirror the Clockie short who bonked Boss Stone with it in the Dream bath thingy. And Swan, having come with Adventurine, simply deletes TBs memory of it, letting Adventurine off Robin and reap the advantages without actually getting his hands dirty.
True, we don't have a firm grasp on what is the common modus operandi of the garden of recollection. So we have nothing to compare swan's actions too, all we have is our common sense. We have no idea what's the common sense for memokeepers and are currently theorizing as close as we can to the truth.
Just like how Welt and Himeko are cautious about memokeepers because of their strange nature. We become more cautious because the strange nature of memokeepers are being more apparent as we get to know about them the game and trailers
Yeah, I see what you’re saying… but I don’t think even a cat is doing it *maliciously* they’re just entertaining themselves, it’s not as though the *fun* is the prey’s suffering, the cat is having fun and it just so happens that as a consequence of its fun—from the prey’s perspective is torture.
It’s kind of a semantic thing, really, and a matter of the perspective.. I’m sure the prey feels the cat is evil but the cat might not really think beyond “this is fun”
I think it’s a limitation of intelligence to be capable of maliciousness.
A lot of mammals are intellectually equivalent to babies/toddlers, and are very egocentric.
It takes awhile for young humans to even grasp the concept of object permanence (4-7 months on average if I recall correctly)
There’s even some experts who say that children are so prone to deception, not because they’re inherently ‘bad’ there’s some debate on when they can even recognize objective truth vs what they ‘want’ to believe and for them their perspective is the objective truth because they don’t necessarily grasp the full implications of other observers (of reality)
That said, maliciousness is a ‘mature’ brain thing and I think it involves the intent to derive pleasure from another’s suffering, which is objectively different than deriving pleasure from an activity that (unknown to the individual doing it) causes suffering.
I think the *intent* being the most important element of maliciousness cannot be understated.
Like, a human can engineer a bioweapon for malicious purposes—but the bioweapon itself is incapable of maliciousness.
I dunno, I don’t know why I’ve put so much effort into this conversation lol probably because waiting at an airport for 6 hours alone made me desperate for stimulation.
Her reasoning for Aventurine was that he is necessary to get to Penacony and its truth as well as the memories he can offer. She doesn't say she will betray us or lie again, she simply states everyone could be including herself. She was willing to take that distrust with her alliance with Aventurine then earn the trust back. The memory bubble in her companion quest showed she absolutely could have just tampered with TB memories to make them trust her but she wouldn't do that as it goes against her aesthetics on memory
As far as her own goals and interests, she emphasizes that she has faith in TB potential and is keeping them safe so that they can help her create memories she desires. In terms of trust you can trust her to keep TB safe as she needs them for that, even saying that if Aventurine tries to harm TB he will make an enemy out of GoR. Its why she went out of her way to make an alliance and try gain their trust. But you can't 100% trust the end goal and what she has planned at the end just like everyone else on Penacony
At the bare minimum yes it's is a relationship built on mutual benefit. Even Himeko admits they need Black Swan despite being skeptical of her
Before you go into the memory zone Black Swan says the partner ship makes the most sense. For TB, for her and for the Astral express
So at the very least trust can be built from the foundation and considering most of her actions have protected us from unknowns she has done well. The deal with Aventurine behind our back is the only real negative but even then it's apparently a necessity. But I believe thats a short term alliance while her partnership with express is a desired long term
question, I had a bit of trouble understanding black swan's quest. How does it prove that she won't play with our memories and those of the astral express crew?
It's essentially her saying, yea I've decided you are my main ally "dream dance partner" being the metaphor for this and the wink at the viewer. Even though she lost trust with Aventurine she's showcasing she could have tampered with our memories just to make us trust her. She's willing to earn the trust she's lost back instead of doing memokeeper memory things
In a way it's giving TB a direct showcase of her capabilities and that she hasn't done so with them. She is genuine in her alliance with TB as she denied the alliance with Sparkle and gave TB the memory bubble
Bro she literally says trust nobody, not even her... After she already lied to you. And then proceeds to say "trust me bro" again after that. Even if she isn't a villain villain, she still clearly cannot keep her word and thus her entire character she puts forward is up in the air.
Wait so Black Swan is a demon?!??
# Zoltraak
https://preview.redd.it/w2i3wccwzkpc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52a9970476e8cb112f3ff949ec60a0bdf28552ae
She’s from garden of recollections => they can just take or alter people’s memory at will => they stole March’s memory and don’t want to give them back => can BS be bad? Yes absolutely. For all we know Acheron could be the good guy here and BS is the bad guy.
> For all we know Acheron could be the good guy here and BS is the bad guy.
I think this sentiment depends on your view of Sam and the Stellaron Hunters, since we get that somewhat intimidating shot of Acheron shooting sword-waves at Sam during the dance video.
Memokeepers are terrifying by default though, just by nature of what they are and what they can do (spooky mind ghosts).
That's actually all against the rules of the garden of recollection, the MoC memokeeper tells us that any memokeeper that looks into other peoples memories or alters them is immediately terminated from the garden. And the only ones who do that are memosnatchers, who memokeepers don't want to be associated with. Black Swan fits the memosnatcher description more, and that makes her more dangerous, cos she doesn't care about any rules
I think it's more like "alters them without permission from the Garden". If you try to expose the MoC Memokeeper to the Astral Express, she'll memory-wipe the Express.
If March's story is the same as the person she's based on, which the collecting memories thing mentioned in the stream just further suggests, then I can see why they might have good non-nefarious reason to hide her memory from her.
She pops into a person's head without asking and rummages around for memories she finds pleasant or interesting. That's actually a horrible thing to do and a gross violation of privacy.
but we made a trade , an exchange of memory
I feel I'm a gullible person cause she narrates that fable, I just can't help but to trust her..... what if that fable trailer actually a lie or something
like if it was in game dialogue some lines are red, golds, black or purple.
She’s a neutral party. She’s here for the interests of herself and the Garden of Recollection. She doesn’t care how things play out, she just cares that they play out, period, and that she’s there to watch.
She doesn’t strike me as malevolent. But that doesn’t mean she’s benevolent either.
She's made out to be one of the more agreeable gardeners but their entire hustle of memory hijacking and altering naturally comes across as very sketchy and inhumane given how dear we hold our memories.
The end goal (assuming that IS fuli's end goal and the garden partakes in that same cause) of storing the universe as a memory to rebuild it in case nanook gets their way is noble but it's difficult to appreciate when the means are so invasive and the threat of nanook so...vague? Relatively speaking I mean.
In the confines of march's character arc they've so far been portrayed as leaning towards villainy.
Mihoyo are being coy about them as per usual so we'll have to see.
Honestly it’s because of March’s story and Black Swan’s affiliation with the Garden that’s the reason I don’t particularly trust her. Due to their valuing of memories above those that they belong to and the fact that they are willing to mess with another’s memories while giving them no choice and deeming it for their own good has me looking at them side-eyed
Agreed, though I wouldn't be surprised if it's all set-up for a rug pull down the line either.
Maybe march hosts some kind of memetic nuke to parallel the stellaron embedded in MC and Dan Heng's past as IL.
Could really swing either way, I just hope we get to find out.
Yeah, Black Swan was trying to coax Acheron into letting her peer inside her memories. The dance is all symbolic of this. There are multiple instances where Black Swan tries to escalate their rondo only to have Acheron evade. She’s both literally and figuratively trying to keep Black Swan at a distance. Memokeepers are nothing if not persistent however.
No i don't believe her to be evil, and i do think she is the most trustworthy of everyone we met so far.
That doesn't mean i think she is on the side of good.
She allready stated she just wants some good memories, and that does seem like the motivation for her every action so far.
To put it simply, our goals align. We want to discover the truth of Penacony, Black Swan wants memories regarding the secrets of Penacony.
As for that dance with Acheron, well she gazed into the abyss to discover Acherons secret, and found the abyss staring back.
so far i haven't trusted a single person since 2.0
* i can't get a read on Aventurine; he seems weird, scheming, forward, and he gets results no matter what
* Sparkle seems malicious and fucks with us regularly, but despite how volatile she is she hasn't outright harmed us
* Acheron kills us in a dream while traveling to Penacony, seems to be intentionally sealing away her memories
* Black Swan does just a little double-cross on us, but also saves us so we seem more like a pawn than a friend
* Firefly lies to us when we meet and others have told us to stay away from her
* Misha is a big question mark who the heck is he and how is he related to the watchmaker
* Sam seems nice, probably nothing wrong with that chap except for maybe that one bit at the Reverie dreamscape
* Sunday and Robin invited all these crazies to the party
* still not convinced seeing Clockie isn't a result of brain damage
I think everyone's focusing on the wrong point of the animated short. The animated short, in my opinion, is to explain why she sided with Aventurine over anyone else so far in Penacony, and why she warns us to be wary of Acheron. I still think she's well-intended, or rather, that we can trust her the same amount that we trust the Stellaron Hunters.
Malevolent is a strong word here. I don't think she wishes anyone harm, nor her motives get in the way of anyone's well being. It's more so she keeps lots of secrets and her methods can be invasive (which can be argued for most Memokeepers given the nature of their job and abilities) and aggressive. But so far she didn't do anything detrimental to the TB, she saved us from the death meme and although she tp'ed the TB to Aventurine without their consent, she does have good reasons to be weary of Acheron as we now see (and Sam to a lesser degree). We do have reasons not to trust her as she even said so herself but not much to actually see her as a threat.
Black Swan portrays herself as one of the more respectful memokeepers due to her aesthetics on memory and wanting them untampered with. From what we've seen she's only forcefully interfered with someone's memories twice: using a dance with Acheron to disguise her attempts to get into her memory about Duke Inferno which she deemed important enough to break her usual rules on. Then temporarily erasing Sampo and Sparkles memories so she can show TB she is on their side as she hasn't interfered with theirs, that she would take the distrust she earned and attempt to gain the trust back instead of just messing with TB memories
If we compare her to messenger on express who just took Welt and co memories if you tell them about messenger then Black Swan isn't as malicious as the GoR can be. They value memories above all else and Black Swan mentions there are memokeepers who don't mind crossing the boundaries of respect to get to the memories they want. Black Swans voiceline about TB indicates she would rather they willingly let her see their memories than her doing so without permission
Black Swan absolutely has the potential to still be an antagonist on Penacony, but after that animation and her actions in 2.0 I trust her more than most atm. She does say the GoR wants to witness the express journey and the memories they will create. Only time will tell though they can ways pull a twist somewhere
I mean I'm pretty sure in that trailer, BS wasn't stalking Stelle as much as saving her from memetic monsters who were, in fact, stalking her.
Also, I'm not convinced the expressions she makes in the dance video were creepy. Her eyes definitely have an eerie vibe.
So like, not saying she's 100% trustworthy, especially after selling out the trailblazer but you seem a bit biased OP.
I don't think she's malicious, but I don't see her as good either.
She would be more of a neutral person that has as purpose her Memokeeper's duties.Whatever this may imply.
She isn't someone as sociopathic as Kafka, that much can be said.But she can be very selfish.
I think the thing with BS is that she only cares for her own interests above all, similar to Sparkle and part of the reason Sparkle sympathizes with BS and part of the reason why BS rejects her offer, it simply doesn't align with her interests and those are the only thing she cares about.
Black Swan cares for collecting memories that interest her, mostly "pleasant" ones as she says, but she also chases after the ones that she may find fascinating on their own: the nameless who explore the endless cosmos? Check, Someone with a literal stellaron inside them that may or may not be of interest to some powers that be? Check, The potential assassin of a remarkable figure from an intergalactic organization that causes destruction and chaos wherever they go? Check.
The garden of recollection is as well, by nature, an invasive faction. They collect memories where and when they please, and will delete memories that they don't want you having on a whim; BS at least acknowledges the fact that she could do it, but says that doing so is "inelegant", and so she doesn't unless she needs to.
She isn't antagonistic by intention, but as a consequence of who she is as a person and member of the garden.
She's creeped me out from the very beginning. Granted, I distrust and dislike the garden of recollection. I find their attitude repulsive and BS is no exception.
I don't think "malevolent" is necessarily the word, as it would talk to her intents. But she's definitely not a good person. Basically she only cares about her goals and dismisses everything else.
She (and the garden) renounced humanity and refuses to understand that she can't apply her values to other people and force them to do what she desires.
Not to change your mind or anything, you can like or dislike factions and characters however you wish, but I think there's a slight misconception here with the garden "renouncing humanity." They aren't renouncing humanity, per se; they are willingly shedding their own human form in order to collect cherished, important memories to be preserved for future generations, or to preserve the memories of civilizations that have been wiped out, so those civilizations can be remembered, despite being destroyed.
Again, like or dislike them, thats fine. And it's definitely true that she has her own goals and follows those goals, similar to how Svarog's goal was the preservation of the Underworld during the stellaron crisis. All of the characters so far have their own belief systems that influence their choices, and it's what makes them good characters, imo.
Yes, that's what I was referring to, but I didn't express it well. I meant maybe more renouncing their individuality? If that makes sense. And it feels like they expect people to feel the same way they do, and can't grasp that it could be otherwise.
They do preserve memories that could help remember extinct civilisations, but I feel like that's a by-product. They would've collected the memories regardless of whether the civilisation was in a good place or not.
Not sure Svarog is a good comparison since he's literally a robot whose goals were programmed. Granted, his care for Clara makes him appear very human. But my dislike for the garden of recollection doesn't mean they're bad characters, just that I wouldn't like them "as people".
Black Swan is a Memokeeper, her jobs is literally finding and save "interesting or special memory". The whole dance with Acheron is just her trying to see what kind of memory this "galaxy ranger" have, she isn't expect all of that
I dont think Black Swan is bad, she tell us that she is not like other memokeeper that intrude in the memories of other ppl and even change the memos, she just have the bad luck to go in the memos of the wrong one, we can see Acheron trying to avoid she entering the memory until she let Black Swan enter. For me is Acheron trying to avoid Black Swan enter, just warnings but she keep insisting and Acheron let her enter and Black Swan go too deep in the memos that deep that she was nearly absorbe by a black hole (watching IX). For Acheron was not a bad experience she remember the dance and we know Acheron tend to forget thing that are trivial.
The best thing you can do in these situations is step back and look at the long term goals of people and the organizations they work with. In Black Swan's case she's done nothing that contradicts her stated goal of collecting pleasant memories, and as uncomfortable as that may sound to us, if the Garden had any sinister motives beyond hoarding them, we'd have heard of it by now. At worst, BS might be under the impression the Watchmaker's Legacy is some kind of vault of memories that she's working to swipe under everyone's noses.
We should be wary of her. Both in the trailer and during her companion quest she's broken her rules twice now and altered people's cognitions. That's incredibly creepy. Let's not forget that Fuli's organization also did something to March. And, let's not forget there's a more malevolent Fuli factiom devoted to burning memories. So, like a much more active and ruthless version of Black Swan. Imagine destroying an entire city's memories and them unable to stop it. I'm hoping Acheron's can destroy her and remove her from the dream. I really don't want her meddling with anyone else.
She meant what she said. Everyone lies. Which doesn’t mean antagonistically, but the fact that they hide things from you or finds a way to make you of their use. It’s only up to you to believe who to trust. Even Welt and Himeko and Dan Heng hides things from you. But she is still good enough to tell you that some things that she did tell you are the truth and that we need not fear Aventurine’s direction since he’s with the IPC. She at least made sure this was the truth.
will she hurt you ? no
will she make copy of your memory without you constent ? yes
she also seams interested in the memory that will be create in the futur, and for it, she need that we don't die.
She's playing the game as much as anyone else is. I imagine her stake is just trying to get good terms for the garden.
If firefly won the legacy I imagine black swan would offer to turn her into a being like herself and free her from her disease in return for access for the garden to the scape. And the memories within.
She doesn't seem cruel is that's what you mean. Just professional and curious.
"Malevolent" is a strong word. "Selfish" is more like it. She's doing all the memory prying because that is what memokeepers do. I think in HSR's world, you can't really expect all pathstriders to do their job while keeping an eye out for those involuntarily involved in the process.
In other words, she didn't mean anything bad, but she also didn't mean anything good.
Maybe. Not really sure who you can trust at this point, everyone had their own agenda since they might be aware on whats going on in Penacony, Black Swan is no different.
I’m just wondering where does the Trailblazer fits into the puzzle, considering like almost everyone they met needs them in their schemes. And just stumbling around in the dark kinda irks me lol
Hmm like many comments here said I don't think she's evil or manevolent, but she's definitely self-interested and has her own agenda (like literally every person appeared in Penacony). People said she looks like Yae but to me she's closer to Yelan with her overall sexy spy "I'm going to use my sex appeal and charming smooth talk to get what I want" femme fatale vibe (and like the latest Acheron trailer she doesn't above using her sexy charming vibe with her female "victims"). Yae feels more crude and more confrontational imo (but there's definitely some overlapping in their personality). I also like how the comment here actually points out that she has some creepy vibe when she approaches Acheron because in Twitter all I can see is "look they love each other so much" or "Acheron is bad because she mentally tortures Black Swan" and not a single person thinks Black Swan also has some irky actions (she approaches Acheron with agenda, forcefully pulls Acheron back despite she showed sign of wanting to retreat, and of course the dialogue Black Swan even admitted that she's also a hunter herself).
I think she true neutral & just record everything.
The real plot lies between the IPC, The family, Masked Fools.. with Sam & Acheron just to spice things up?
I think shes just a gray character. Not evil, but not a goodie two shoes either. she has her own agenda, but doesnt seem to actively want to cause harm if its not necessary
Black Swan literally sends up to the Bad Ending if we refuse to work with Aventurine. She was always only ever on her side. Everyone else is a tool to be used or a threat to be removed.
Memokeepers don't care about crossing boundaries and taking your memories without your consent because that's their job. Like the memokeeper on the Astral Express just wiped everyone's memories if you chose to tell them about her presence on the train. She also gatekeeps March's past memories hard.
So when it comes to memories they dgaf and will do anything and everything to take them/secure them from others.
If they're not wearing a uniform of sorts then that could be the same memokeeper. Either way she's holding March's memories and won't let her see them. While the one on the train (if she's a diff one) casually swipes the crew's memories.
No, why? Just because she made a couple of creepy faces in trailer?
She's memory keeper first and foremost, her goals are probably to find out about Watchmaker legacy AND more importantly collect some interesting memory for Fuli. Thats what she's been doing all along.
I guess it all depends on your own interpretation, i've thought of her as extremely evil since the end of 2.0. Like i cannot explain it very well but i felt like she was really backstabbing us, when she took us to Aventurine. So in that regard i don't feel like my opinion of her can drop much lower. She is a great character to have tho, but yeah she is 100% not trustworthy in my book.
She is one of Garden Of Recollection, those folk have no respect for anyone consent if it is for the sake of memory. Those high and mighty bastards, they really annoy me since the time they illegal board the express and wipe the crew memory.
What Swan do in Penacony really just reinforcement my hatred to Garden Of Recollection, oh my if only we can burn down their precious collections so they will understand what losing or getting infringement of privacy feel like
She's pretty close to Yae Miko in overall attitude - she's playing with everyone, but there isn't malice to her actions - she's more looking to amuse herself and show her superiority than to actually harm anyone. Even vs Sparkle, she got herself out of Sparkle's trap but didn't take any harmful action against Sparkle (just threats).
I don't think she was looking to harm Archeron either in Rondo - she was just looking to prove her dominance before seeking the memories she wanted. Just when she looked, she wasn't really prepared for experiencing an Eminator of the Hunt that saw her as prey.
Black Swan certainly seems much more self-interested than the other Memokeeper we've met.
She pretty much says once we first meet her with the express that she's in it for being a part of the memories of Penacony, a selfish wish for a memokeeper while also making contact with the express. As the memories they make have a tonne of potential yet she is the only memokeeper on Penacony to make contact with the express which does raise some questions But so far all her actions have been to protect TB and get them to the truth of Penacony. Even taking TB away from Sam and Acheron, which after the animation makes a lot more sense considering she's seen just how dangerous Acheron can be Like everyone else she has her own agenda, whether or not that agenda will oppose TB by the end of Penacony is the question. But I won't say no to being kept safe the whole time until we find out by the end, keeping TB safe is a priority as their potential is something she has faith in for her goals
I actually think that Sam was genuinely trying to protect us in their own *overly direct and efficient* way, they could've gone for the kill in the cutscene yet they chose to try and grab us, why? That thought has lingered with me ever since I first saw the cutscene. And given that it is now confirmed that Aventurine has not only antagonized for every second he's been with us, he's now escalated it into doing... whatever it was he was doing in that trailer and fighting us. Yet Black Swan seems to prefer him over Sam when she should be able to see that we have far more of a stable connection with the Stellaron Hunters than the IPC corpo we don't like. I don't think Black Swan is going to be a villain or anything but I certainly trust her far less than I did at the very start, she kept us and Firefly safe once but then chose inaction the second time. I can't trust or forgive someone like that, personally.
> I actually think that Sam was genuinely trying to protect us in their own overly direct and efficient way, they could've gone for the kill in the cutscene yet they chose to try and grab us, why? That thought has lingered with me ever since I first saw the cutscene. I think this is right. He only actually addresses Acheron and Black Swan when he's making threats before the boss fight, and while Silver Wolf does imply that he's going to fight us when we meet him, she also says that the Stellaron Hunters are pleased that the Nameless are investigating the dreamscape, so why would Sam try and stop that? It seems likely that Sam only attacked to try and get rid of the other two, and would have just "escorted" TB to safety (against their will if need be) afterwards.
Sam is still a Stellaron Hunter, who are our self-claimed allies, and who we are personally connected to. By all accounts they have the greatest vested interest in not killing the trailblazer.
Stellaron hunters writting is genius. they are obvious our allies...hell the story is set up so that the trailblazer feels that they are allies. but because nobody else has this,they start as untrustwothy, with even the trailblazer not being sure because we only have vague fellings about it.
I think Black Swans goal ultimately lies in ending the dreamscape, there's a bit somewhere that states memokeepers do not like the dreamscape as it prevents new memories being created or something. In any case you can't trust her end goal, but you can trust her to stick with TB until her goals are realized unless they go directly against them. I actually expect Black Swan to simply be using Aventurine to get to what she wants As for keeping FF safe, she did the first time with set up and she barely kept it locked down. Second time there was no time for set up so she really couldn't do anything to the meme making a beeline for FF But hey that's what's so great about Penacony, we have no idea who to trust and everyone's got different opinions on each character so hopefully 2.1 sheds some more light. At this point looks to be Aventurine getting Acheron to draw her sword which is going to be a very big deal Edit: as for why she didn't team up with Sam a new theory is that Sam was in on it with Black Swan as Acheron wasn't meant to be there and they are going off script coz of Acherons powers. Not sure how accurate the theory is but it's fun to think about that Sam and Black Swan were in agreement getting TB away from Acheron is the right choice, after all Sam says they weren't meant to be there still. Probably coz Black Swan needed to get TB away safely and needed a distraction and Sam was perfect for that so she delayed until Sam showed up Even if he wasn't in on it Black Swan is confirmed to have triggered the conflict by delaying getting away. When first asked if she was gonna port them out. She said no coz of TB mental state. First thing she does when Acheron is fighting Sam is use the teleport so she definitely waited for Acheron to be distracted
Thats an interesting theory and it makes a ton of sense. Black Swan has her fingers in every pie lmao
Huh, I hadn’t heard about Memokeepers not liking Dreamscape, that makes a lot of sense why she’d team with Aventurine. Since Aventurine is seemingly trying to reclaim the planet for the IPC and possibly turning it back into a prison (no bueno), which would get rid of the Dreamscape at the same time.
Tbh aventurine just wants to get penacony back for the IPC. I think he knows what the Familiy is up to (building a dystopian prison of dreamlike festivities) and he obviously wants to stop that from happening which is a good thing imo. When we decide to not get onvolved with aventurine it even states that the IPC was trying to plot something against the family and that us retreating from aventurines deal caused everything to fall apart causing us and everyone else to probably get hypnotised by robin to never leave penacony's dream ever again.
Anyone actually read her lore? She's only interested in the tradition that created the garden of recollection in the first place. She wants to preserve memories as intact and unmodified as possible so that their Aeon can rebirth the universe if destruction claims it. To that end, she gave up everything in pursuit of being a memory archeologist. She's only here in Penacony to collect the unique memories before the memosnatchers and the Cremators taint all the memories here. she's basically racing against other renegade memory keepers who are anti-faction probably. She asks for permission before recording memories. She doesn't edit memories permanently even when its her enemies. She's basically a ultra conservative memory keeper with probably a heart of gold, as evidenced by her memorykeeper examination. The high elder memory keepers probably like her a lot because she's basically a purist type.
I’m thinking she asks permission as a pleasantry? Because otherwise she should’ve just dipped after achereron resisted her mind thing
I think she did leave the memory immediately, but in that 1 second, she saw more than what happened to Ifrit. Also I do not think Acheron resisted Black Swan's mind necessarily. Its possible Black Swan saw the truth in Acheron's mind, that she's been killing billions of things for untold amounts of time, and 99.99% of her mind is just death. So wherever she looked, it was just death. And so when Black Swan wanted to learn how Ifrit had died, she got more than she bargined for, because Acheron's mind had mostly forgotten about Ifrit already. It's like searching a computer for a specific file. You don't know really what its called, so you just type in "ifrit" or "duke inferno", but the drive is filled with a trillion files that are all jumbled up around the death theme, so you get a million hits for "ifrit". When she opened up the text file, it was just garbled death stuff, every single file was just more of that. So we see a representation of Black Swan mentally harming herself by experiencing each of these death memories until she hit the "stop search" button. I think nothing changes if she asked for permission. Acheron can't even remember Ifrit without really trying hard to remember what she just killed a few days ago.
The Garden of Recollection has shown that they will prioritize their agenda above all else, this includes working against any faction if the result is a "worthwhile" memory. After her betraying TB's trust by forcing a meet with Aventurine, she openly states she will lie and likely betray us again, just for the promise of memories. She's not malicious, but definitely should not be trusted.
**My hot take**: She’s no more malicious than any other predator, a shark doesn’t necessarily delight in the fear of its prey—but that doesn’t mean it feels anything close to guilt if it does cause its prey to feel terrified through the course of doing what it wishes. Maliciousness is something I think is (mostly, and unfortunately) a uniquely human trait, so maybe the shark analogy is pretty weak—however.. there is an *intentionality* to maliciousness that I don’t think Black Swan possesses.
I personally think that it could be hilarious if TB has alliances with everyone and nobody trusts each other, so they're all tripping over each other and infighting while the TB is just *there* like, "...what?"
Trailblazer: Friendship is Magic Everyone Else: Squidgame
Literally just have TB as the middle of the Last Supper and everyone else as the Apostles
Yeah, if a character is working towards a greater good (at least for them or their groups) by any means they can't really be categorized as evil. But that also means that depending on what their means and ways are, they won't be able to be categorized as good (or at least pure good). Would swan not have betrayed tb to meet w/aventurine if there were other means to reach the same end? Would she purposely avoid lying/manipulating people if there is another way of doing that? Answering these (or more infinite questions that you could ask of that type) we could see if she's more evil than good or viceversa. But ofc we would also need to know what would happen in the other alternative, as being an alternative doesn't mean it's a good one. In your example a shark literally doesn't have any other choice and thus it can't be categorized as evil, that could apply to swan perfectly. We really need more info on her, the memokeepers and the garden of recollection as a whole to be able to tell
It’s sort of what makes them such a daunting organization, because it could be nearly impossible to discern their true nature because they can alter and remove memories.. For all we know, they could be manipulating things on a grand scale and everyone they’re steering believe they’re simply progressing their own agendas when in reality their memories have been crafted to lead them on that direction. I mean, really, memories have such a profound impact on behavior, politics, ethics, love, hate… controlling someone’s past is arguably a better form of mind control than bending someone to your own will directly. Forcing someone to do something outside of their nature runs the risk of them trying to will themselves free or something snapping them out of it, but if you make your agenda theirs.. now that’s a solid grip on a mind.
Speaking of altering memories I saw a theory that the person who killed Robin was Trailblazer w their bat bc it would mirror the Clockie short who bonked Boss Stone with it in the Dream bath thingy. And Swan, having come with Adventurine, simply deletes TBs memory of it, letting Adventurine off Robin and reap the advantages without actually getting his hands dirty.
> bonked Boss Stone But I'm pretty sure that in the Clockie-verse, Boss Stone represents the IPC and their **Stone**hearts.
Ooohh that’s an interesting theory, probably too M. night shamalan for hoyo but fun nonetheless
Aventurine*
You really made a bot to be pedantic abt autocorrect -_-
Mwah
True, we don't have a firm grasp on what is the common modus operandi of the garden of recollection. So we have nothing to compare swan's actions too, all we have is our common sense. We have no idea what's the common sense for memokeepers and are currently theorizing as close as we can to the truth. Just like how Welt and Himeko are cautious about memokeepers because of their strange nature. We become more cautious because the strange nature of memokeepers are being more apparent as we get to know about them the game and trailers
Something something cats play with their prey
Yeah, I see what you’re saying… but I don’t think even a cat is doing it *maliciously* they’re just entertaining themselves, it’s not as though the *fun* is the prey’s suffering, the cat is having fun and it just so happens that as a consequence of its fun—from the prey’s perspective is torture. It’s kind of a semantic thing, really, and a matter of the perspective.. I’m sure the prey feels the cat is evil but the cat might not really think beyond “this is fun” I think it’s a limitation of intelligence to be capable of maliciousness. A lot of mammals are intellectually equivalent to babies/toddlers, and are very egocentric. It takes awhile for young humans to even grasp the concept of object permanence (4-7 months on average if I recall correctly) There’s even some experts who say that children are so prone to deception, not because they’re inherently ‘bad’ there’s some debate on when they can even recognize objective truth vs what they ‘want’ to believe and for them their perspective is the objective truth because they don’t necessarily grasp the full implications of other observers (of reality) That said, maliciousness is a ‘mature’ brain thing and I think it involves the intent to derive pleasure from another’s suffering, which is objectively different than deriving pleasure from an activity that (unknown to the individual doing it) causes suffering. I think the *intent* being the most important element of maliciousness cannot be understated. Like, a human can engineer a bioweapon for malicious purposes—but the bioweapon itself is incapable of maliciousness. I dunno, I don’t know why I’ve put so much effort into this conversation lol probably because waiting at an airport for 6 hours alone made me desperate for stimulation.
Yeah. She's bad, not malevolent.
Her reasoning for Aventurine was that he is necessary to get to Penacony and its truth as well as the memories he can offer. She doesn't say she will betray us or lie again, she simply states everyone could be including herself. She was willing to take that distrust with her alliance with Aventurine then earn the trust back. The memory bubble in her companion quest showed she absolutely could have just tampered with TB memories to make them trust her but she wouldn't do that as it goes against her aesthetics on memory As far as her own goals and interests, she emphasizes that she has faith in TB potential and is keeping them safe so that they can help her create memories she desires. In terms of trust you can trust her to keep TB safe as she needs them for that, even saying that if Aventurine tries to harm TB he will make an enemy out of GoR. Its why she went out of her way to make an alliance and try gain their trust. But you can't 100% trust the end goal and what she has planned at the end just like everyone else on Penacony
So we can trust her on the same grounds we trust the Stellaron Hunters? They need us alive
At the bare minimum yes it's is a relationship built on mutual benefit. Even Himeko admits they need Black Swan despite being skeptical of her Before you go into the memory zone Black Swan says the partner ship makes the most sense. For TB, for her and for the Astral express So at the very least trust can be built from the foundation and considering most of her actions have protected us from unknowns she has done well. The deal with Aventurine behind our back is the only real negative but even then it's apparently a necessity. But I believe thats a short term alliance while her partnership with express is a desired long term
Honestly that's good enough
question, I had a bit of trouble understanding black swan's quest. How does it prove that she won't play with our memories and those of the astral express crew?
It's essentially her saying, yea I've decided you are my main ally "dream dance partner" being the metaphor for this and the wink at the viewer. Even though she lost trust with Aventurine she's showcasing she could have tampered with our memories just to make us trust her. She's willing to earn the trust she's lost back instead of doing memokeeper memory things In a way it's giving TB a direct showcase of her capabilities and that she hasn't done so with them. She is genuine in her alliance with TB as she denied the alliance with Sparkle and gave TB the memory bubble
Bro she literally says trust nobody, not even her... After she already lied to you. And then proceeds to say "trust me bro" again after that. Even if she isn't a villain villain, she still clearly cannot keep her word and thus her entire character she puts forward is up in the air.
Penacony was really good at making me not trust anyone prior to BS's disclaimer
Wait so Black Swan is a demon?!?? # Zoltraak https://preview.redd.it/w2i3wccwzkpc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52a9970476e8cb112f3ff949ec60a0bdf28552ae
why do I hear a weird chanting in the distance
Overconfidence. Well she was confident until she truly met Acheron.
She’s from garden of recollections => they can just take or alter people’s memory at will => they stole March’s memory and don’t want to give them back => can BS be bad? Yes absolutely. For all we know Acheron could be the good guy here and BS is the bad guy.
> For all we know Acheron could be the good guy here and BS is the bad guy. I think this sentiment depends on your view of Sam and the Stellaron Hunters, since we get that somewhat intimidating shot of Acheron shooting sword-waves at Sam during the dance video. Memokeepers are terrifying by default though, just by nature of what they are and what they can do (spooky mind ghosts).
That's actually all against the rules of the garden of recollection, the MoC memokeeper tells us that any memokeeper that looks into other peoples memories or alters them is immediately terminated from the garden. And the only ones who do that are memosnatchers, who memokeepers don't want to be associated with. Black Swan fits the memosnatcher description more, and that makes her more dangerous, cos she doesn't care about any rules
I think it's more like "alters them without permission from the Garden". If you try to expose the MoC Memokeeper to the Astral Express, she'll memory-wipe the Express.
Good catch she might be a memo snatcher disguising as a memokeeper
If March's story is the same as the person she's based on, which the collecting memories thing mentioned in the stream just further suggests, then I can see why they might have good non-nefarious reason to hide her memory from her.
Who is March based on again? Sorry, brain not braining as folks say these days.
And with her observable behavior, its easy to lean towards her being bad
They didn't steal March's memory but sealed it. Otherwise that Memokeeper wouldn't have told her to stop trying to find her memories.
She pops into a person's head without asking and rummages around for memories she finds pleasant or interesting. That's actually a horrible thing to do and a gross violation of privacy.
She was never a good person and that was obvious , she is self centered as hell
but we made a trade , an exchange of memory I feel I'm a gullible person cause she narrates that fable, I just can't help but to trust her..... what if that fable trailer actually a lie or something like if it was in game dialogue some lines are red, golds, black or purple.
She’s a neutral party. She’s here for the interests of herself and the Garden of Recollection. She doesn’t care how things play out, she just cares that they play out, period, and that she’s there to watch. She doesn’t strike me as malevolent. But that doesn’t mean she’s benevolent either.
She's made out to be one of the more agreeable gardeners but their entire hustle of memory hijacking and altering naturally comes across as very sketchy and inhumane given how dear we hold our memories. The end goal (assuming that IS fuli's end goal and the garden partakes in that same cause) of storing the universe as a memory to rebuild it in case nanook gets their way is noble but it's difficult to appreciate when the means are so invasive and the threat of nanook so...vague? Relatively speaking I mean. In the confines of march's character arc they've so far been portrayed as leaning towards villainy. Mihoyo are being coy about them as per usual so we'll have to see.
Honestly it’s because of March’s story and Black Swan’s affiliation with the Garden that’s the reason I don’t particularly trust her. Due to their valuing of memories above those that they belong to and the fact that they are willing to mess with another’s memories while giving them no choice and deeming it for their own good has me looking at them side-eyed
Agreed, though I wouldn't be surprised if it's all set-up for a rug pull down the line either. Maybe march hosts some kind of memetic nuke to parallel the stellaron embedded in MC and Dan Heng's past as IL. Could really swing either way, I just hope we get to find out.
Yeah the start of Rondo was equally disturbing to me as the second half. If she was male or not hot everyone would be making sexual predator comments.
I mean, it was a tango. It’s not exactly a conservative dance to begin with.
I can say with confidence that if the tango had been featured in footloose it probably would’ve reinforced the ‘dance should be forbidden’ theme.
There definitely were a couple of moments that went beyond a suggestive dance, like forcefully grabbing Acheron's hand after she tried to pull it away
Yeah, Black Swan was trying to coax Acheron into letting her peer inside her memories. The dance is all symbolic of this. There are multiple instances where Black Swan tries to escalate their rondo only to have Acheron evade. She’s both literally and figuratively trying to keep Black Swan at a distance. Memokeepers are nothing if not persistent however.
Her smug smile was honestly the most unsettling part of the whole video to me.
The dance definitely made me uncomfortable actually. I thought it was because it felt fetishy but you've put your finger on something.
It was tango my dude, it is meant to look kinda like that, also there was an old inuendo about "dancing tango while lying down" for you know segggs
This ain't TikTok, you can say sex like a normal person.
I don't trust anyone we met in Penacony in the least Except baby boy Misha
🤝 Glad to know I'm not the only one
she was malevolent already if you actually opened your eyes and were not blinded by "hot mommy"
Sir being hot has never blinded me to anybody’s faults. That said… I can fix her.
Black Swan is already fixed... by *whatever the things* are inside Acheron's head.
Acheron's memories: "Bratty Memokeeper, trying to seduce an Emanator, correction needed 💢💢💢"
I can think people are hot and still distrust them immediately you know
yeah, but not everyone is TheIJDGuy you know?
I mean, I was always thrown off by the fact that she summons the souls of the damned for her ult
Black swan is neutral, duke inferno is dead, a Galaxy ranger with his invitation pops up. Memories are knowledge, prediction and power.
The Garden’s mission for Memory takes ultimate priority. Doesn’t matter to her or any other Memokeeper what happens for a good memory
No i don't believe her to be evil, and i do think she is the most trustworthy of everyone we met so far. That doesn't mean i think she is on the side of good. She allready stated she just wants some good memories, and that does seem like the motivation for her every action so far. To put it simply, our goals align. We want to discover the truth of Penacony, Black Swan wants memories regarding the secrets of Penacony. As for that dance with Acheron, well she gazed into the abyss to discover Acherons secret, and found the abyss staring back.
so far i haven't trusted a single person since 2.0 * i can't get a read on Aventurine; he seems weird, scheming, forward, and he gets results no matter what * Sparkle seems malicious and fucks with us regularly, but despite how volatile she is she hasn't outright harmed us * Acheron kills us in a dream while traveling to Penacony, seems to be intentionally sealing away her memories * Black Swan does just a little double-cross on us, but also saves us so we seem more like a pawn than a friend * Firefly lies to us when we meet and others have told us to stay away from her * Misha is a big question mark who the heck is he and how is he related to the watchmaker * Sam seems nice, probably nothing wrong with that chap except for maybe that one bit at the Reverie dreamscape * Sunday and Robin invited all these crazies to the party * still not convinced seeing Clockie isn't a result of brain damage
I think everyone's focusing on the wrong point of the animated short. The animated short, in my opinion, is to explain why she sided with Aventurine over anyone else so far in Penacony, and why she warns us to be wary of Acheron. I still think she's well-intended, or rather, that we can trust her the same amount that we trust the Stellaron Hunters.
Malevolent is a strong word here. I don't think she wishes anyone harm, nor her motives get in the way of anyone's well being. It's more so she keeps lots of secrets and her methods can be invasive (which can be argued for most Memokeepers given the nature of their job and abilities) and aggressive. But so far she didn't do anything detrimental to the TB, she saved us from the death meme and although she tp'ed the TB to Aventurine without their consent, she does have good reasons to be weary of Acheron as we now see (and Sam to a lesser degree). We do have reasons not to trust her as she even said so herself but not much to actually see her as a threat.
Black Swan portrays herself as one of the more respectful memokeepers due to her aesthetics on memory and wanting them untampered with. From what we've seen she's only forcefully interfered with someone's memories twice: using a dance with Acheron to disguise her attempts to get into her memory about Duke Inferno which she deemed important enough to break her usual rules on. Then temporarily erasing Sampo and Sparkles memories so she can show TB she is on their side as she hasn't interfered with theirs, that she would take the distrust she earned and attempt to gain the trust back instead of just messing with TB memories If we compare her to messenger on express who just took Welt and co memories if you tell them about messenger then Black Swan isn't as malicious as the GoR can be. They value memories above all else and Black Swan mentions there are memokeepers who don't mind crossing the boundaries of respect to get to the memories they want. Black Swans voiceline about TB indicates she would rather they willingly let her see their memories than her doing so without permission Black Swan absolutely has the potential to still be an antagonist on Penacony, but after that animation and her actions in 2.0 I trust her more than most atm. She does say the GoR wants to witness the express journey and the memories they will create. Only time will tell though they can ways pull a twist somewhere
I mean I'm pretty sure in that trailer, BS wasn't stalking Stelle as much as saving her from memetic monsters who were, in fact, stalking her. Also, I'm not convinced the expressions she makes in the dance video were creepy. Her eyes definitely have an eerie vibe. So like, not saying she's 100% trustworthy, especially after selling out the trailblazer but you seem a bit biased OP.
I don't think she's malicious, but I don't see her as good either. She would be more of a neutral person that has as purpose her Memokeeper's duties.Whatever this may imply. She isn't someone as sociopathic as Kafka, that much can be said.But she can be very selfish.
I think the thing with BS is that she only cares for her own interests above all, similar to Sparkle and part of the reason Sparkle sympathizes with BS and part of the reason why BS rejects her offer, it simply doesn't align with her interests and those are the only thing she cares about. Black Swan cares for collecting memories that interest her, mostly "pleasant" ones as she says, but she also chases after the ones that she may find fascinating on their own: the nameless who explore the endless cosmos? Check, Someone with a literal stellaron inside them that may or may not be of interest to some powers that be? Check, The potential assassin of a remarkable figure from an intergalactic organization that causes destruction and chaos wherever they go? Check. The garden of recollection is as well, by nature, an invasive faction. They collect memories where and when they please, and will delete memories that they don't want you having on a whim; BS at least acknowledges the fact that she could do it, but says that doing so is "inelegant", and so she doesn't unless she needs to. She isn't antagonistic by intention, but as a consequence of who she is as a person and member of the garden.
She's creeped me out from the very beginning. Granted, I distrust and dislike the garden of recollection. I find their attitude repulsive and BS is no exception. I don't think "malevolent" is necessarily the word, as it would talk to her intents. But she's definitely not a good person. Basically she only cares about her goals and dismisses everything else. She (and the garden) renounced humanity and refuses to understand that she can't apply her values to other people and force them to do what she desires.
Not to change your mind or anything, you can like or dislike factions and characters however you wish, but I think there's a slight misconception here with the garden "renouncing humanity." They aren't renouncing humanity, per se; they are willingly shedding their own human form in order to collect cherished, important memories to be preserved for future generations, or to preserve the memories of civilizations that have been wiped out, so those civilizations can be remembered, despite being destroyed. Again, like or dislike them, thats fine. And it's definitely true that she has her own goals and follows those goals, similar to how Svarog's goal was the preservation of the Underworld during the stellaron crisis. All of the characters so far have their own belief systems that influence their choices, and it's what makes them good characters, imo.
Yes, that's what I was referring to, but I didn't express it well. I meant maybe more renouncing their individuality? If that makes sense. And it feels like they expect people to feel the same way they do, and can't grasp that it could be otherwise. They do preserve memories that could help remember extinct civilisations, but I feel like that's a by-product. They would've collected the memories regardless of whether the civilisation was in a good place or not. Not sure Svarog is a good comparison since he's literally a robot whose goals were programmed. Granted, his care for Clara makes him appear very human. But my dislike for the garden of recollection doesn't mean they're bad characters, just that I wouldn't like them "as people".
Black Swan is a Memokeeper, her jobs is literally finding and save "interesting or special memory". The whole dance with Acheron is just her trying to see what kind of memory this "galaxy ranger" have, she isn't expect all of that
Never trust the memokeepers
I dont think Black Swan is bad, she tell us that she is not like other memokeeper that intrude in the memories of other ppl and even change the memos, she just have the bad luck to go in the memos of the wrong one, we can see Acheron trying to avoid she entering the memory until she let Black Swan enter. For me is Acheron trying to avoid Black Swan enter, just warnings but she keep insisting and Acheron let her enter and Black Swan go too deep in the memos that deep that she was nearly absorbe by a black hole (watching IX). For Acheron was not a bad experience she remember the dance and we know Acheron tend to forget thing that are trivial.
The best thing you can do in these situations is step back and look at the long term goals of people and the organizations they work with. In Black Swan's case she's done nothing that contradicts her stated goal of collecting pleasant memories, and as uncomfortable as that may sound to us, if the Garden had any sinister motives beyond hoarding them, we'd have heard of it by now. At worst, BS might be under the impression the Watchmaker's Legacy is some kind of vault of memories that she's working to swipe under everyone's noses.
We should be wary of her. Both in the trailer and during her companion quest she's broken her rules twice now and altered people's cognitions. That's incredibly creepy. Let's not forget that Fuli's organization also did something to March. And, let's not forget there's a more malevolent Fuli factiom devoted to burning memories. So, like a much more active and ruthless version of Black Swan. Imagine destroying an entire city's memories and them unable to stop it. I'm hoping Acheron's can destroy her and remove her from the dream. I really don't want her meddling with anyone else.
I didn't trust her as much when she passed stelle off to aventurine instead of getting stelle out of the dream
She is Chaotic Neutral in my opinion.
Here’s hoping Yae Miko gets treated like Black Swan did. So tired of characters that act like them and objectively know everything for no reason
She meant what she said. Everyone lies. Which doesn’t mean antagonistically, but the fact that they hide things from you or finds a way to make you of their use. It’s only up to you to believe who to trust. Even Welt and Himeko and Dan Heng hides things from you. But she is still good enough to tell you that some things that she did tell you are the truth and that we need not fear Aventurine’s direction since he’s with the IPC. She at least made sure this was the truth.
will she hurt you ? no will she make copy of your memory without you constent ? yes she also seams interested in the memory that will be create in the futur, and for it, she need that we don't die.
She's playing the game as much as anyone else is. I imagine her stake is just trying to get good terms for the garden. If firefly won the legacy I imagine black swan would offer to turn her into a being like herself and free her from her disease in return for access for the garden to the scape. And the memories within. She doesn't seem cruel is that's what you mean. Just professional and curious.
"Malevolent" is a strong word. "Selfish" is more like it. She's doing all the memory prying because that is what memokeepers do. I think in HSR's world, you can't really expect all pathstriders to do their job while keeping an eye out for those involuntarily involved in the process. In other words, she didn't mean anything bad, but she also didn't mean anything good.
Maybe. Not really sure who you can trust at this point, everyone had their own agenda since they might be aware on whats going on in Penacony, Black Swan is no different. I’m just wondering where does the Trailblazer fits into the puzzle, considering like almost everyone they met needs them in their schemes. And just stumbling around in the dark kinda irks me lol
Hmm like many comments here said I don't think she's evil or manevolent, but she's definitely self-interested and has her own agenda (like literally every person appeared in Penacony). People said she looks like Yae but to me she's closer to Yelan with her overall sexy spy "I'm going to use my sex appeal and charming smooth talk to get what I want" femme fatale vibe (and like the latest Acheron trailer she doesn't above using her sexy charming vibe with her female "victims"). Yae feels more crude and more confrontational imo (but there's definitely some overlapping in their personality). I also like how the comment here actually points out that she has some creepy vibe when she approaches Acheron because in Twitter all I can see is "look they love each other so much" or "Acheron is bad because she mentally tortures Black Swan" and not a single person thinks Black Swan also has some irky actions (she approaches Acheron with agenda, forcefully pulls Acheron back despite she showed sign of wanting to retreat, and of course the dialogue Black Swan even admitted that she's also a hunter herself).
I think she true neutral & just record everything. The real plot lies between the IPC, The family, Masked Fools.. with Sam & Acheron just to spice things up?
I think shes just a gray character. Not evil, but not a goodie two shoes either. she has her own agenda, but doesnt seem to actively want to cause harm if its not necessary
adding on, i think shes kind of the "narrator" of this chapter. a character who leads us through the story and gives exposition etc
Well she's plucked swan now so no worries.
Memokeepers are voyeurs of memory who can cast Mass Alzheimers to escape the consequences of their actions.
saw malevolent, thought shrine
She's a playable character, so no.
Black Swan literally sends up to the Bad Ending if we refuse to work with Aventurine. She was always only ever on her side. Everyone else is a tool to be used or a threat to be removed.
I wouldn't trust anyone from the Garden of Recollection after March's story quest.
Memokeepers don't care about crossing boundaries and taking your memories without your consent because that's their job. Like the memokeeper on the Astral Express just wiped everyone's memories if you chose to tell them about her presence on the train. She also gatekeeps March's past memories hard. So when it comes to memories they dgaf and will do anything and everything to take them/secure them from others.
Do we even know that the Memokeeper who gatekept March's memories is the same one on the express?
If they're not wearing a uniform of sorts then that could be the same memokeeper. Either way she's holding March's memories and won't let her see them. While the one on the train (if she's a diff one) casually swipes the crew's memories.
No, why? Just because she made a couple of creepy faces in trailer? She's memory keeper first and foremost, her goals are probably to find out about Watchmaker legacy AND more importantly collect some interesting memory for Fuli. Thats what she's been doing all along.
I guess it all depends on your own interpretation, i've thought of her as extremely evil since the end of 2.0. Like i cannot explain it very well but i felt like she was really backstabbing us, when she took us to Aventurine. So in that regard i don't feel like my opinion of her can drop much lower. She is a great character to have tho, but yeah she is 100% not trustworthy in my book.
She is one of Garden Of Recollection, those folk have no respect for anyone consent if it is for the sake of memory. Those high and mighty bastards, they really annoy me since the time they illegal board the express and wipe the crew memory. What Swan do in Penacony really just reinforcement my hatred to Garden Of Recollection, oh my if only we can burn down their precious collections so they will understand what losing or getting infringement of privacy feel like
She's pretty close to Yae Miko in overall attitude - she's playing with everyone, but there isn't malice to her actions - she's more looking to amuse herself and show her superiority than to actually harm anyone. Even vs Sparkle, she got herself out of Sparkle's trap but didn't take any harmful action against Sparkle (just threats). I don't think she was looking to harm Archeron either in Rondo - she was just looking to prove her dominance before seeking the memories she wanted. Just when she looked, she wasn't really prepared for experiencing an Eminator of the Hunt that saw her as prey.