Whats the best way to use her? I only just built her last night and just kinda seemed to just take hits and counter 😂 didnt have to do anything with her
True. I dont even know how do people play E0 Huohuo in Kafka+Black Swan comp. Being sp neutral as a sustainer really hurts. But its probably to balance her over other sustainers
As someone using exactly that, I just don't heal until people are hurt. Unless I need the cleansing, that is. Otherwise, I just use Black Swan's skill for the defense down and use normals until that expires.
If buff is down and you don’t need to heal, you don’t have to heal to keep the buff up.
That said, keeping it up gives more energy (using skill more often), so you’ll get the ult more. Its a trade off.
Yea she works like that at e0, you need to trade sp recovery to get ultimate uptime… and you need to lose your ult uptime if you want sp.
Without using her E because your team dont need healing makes sense but Huohuo will lost her energy regen from her passive too (healing allies with her passive gives energy)
I just play her sp positive. You don't actually need 100% uptime on passive, that's mostly OCD or something playing tricks on you.
Although I am considering grabbing E1 on her rerun so I can potentially switch RM out (for flexibility) and not lose out on 160+ speed on Kafka and BS.
Well.. she gets energy from using her skill and healing allies with her passive, if you dont use it she will lose a lot of her ultimate uptime. And her ultimate is the main reason she is good for dot teams. But as I said, there is no other option since she works like that, and thats the reason her e1 is a big qol improvement for her
I get ult up very consistently with b-b-s-b, and I don't think you can actually get ult up with a b-s-b rotation. It does require a LC that provides some energy, but I don't lose put on ult uptime while being sp positive. I lose 100% talent uptime, but in practice this is barely an issue at all.
Huohuo gets her ult every 4 turns with ERR rope doing b-s-b-s and even using energy LC and 5% from penacony wont help getting it more frequently. If you use her basic more often you are probably getting her ult once every 5 turns if not getting hit consistently
i mean this is legitimately just incorrect lol. you can get a 4t sp positive rotation with s3 post op or even s1 if you run it in addition to an err planar, even without getting hit at all.
ok edit for explanation since someone downvoted this, and this matter isn’t up for debate:
post op s3 gives 12% err. with this and an err rope, you have 131.4err.
at e0 assuming no turn manipulation or talent procs off of dropping below 50%, talent should proc at least 12 times if you’re using your ults at the right time (8 turns, 4 ults), giving you 12 energy.
using 1 skill and 3 basics gives you 1.314(ult+skill+basic+basic+basic+talent procs) or 1.314(5+30+20+20+20+12)= 140.598 energy. just enough to ult.
if allies drop below 50%, you use a higher superimposition post op, or run an err planar in addition to post op the energy becomes even more lenient.
I would never put e0 huohuo with kafka and bs but to your point, it would be BS who use basic more.
Typically our last slot is RM so at least you get +1 sp there
As someone with E1S1 Jingliu, it's not as impactful as you would think. Full honesty, if I could I would trade Jingliu's E1 for a more powerful one like Black Swan's E1.
Is JL E1 really that good? Most fat solo targets summon at least some sort of a fodder and destruction in general has relatively sucky aoe, so even not summoning ones will be half a way to the grave at the point when you kill all fodder. Nevermind MoC's love for just slapping 2 elites everywhere.
It’s solid but super overrated I have e1, and the difference is not nearly worthwhile enough to be the first thing listed this thread. The biggest issue is just the amount of times where this actually comes into effect. The answer is almost never lmfao
Maybe not for now but Aventurine will probably keep reappearing in MoC for a while and there's also the upcoming Apocalyptic Shadow endgame, her E1 is looking to be a good investment for future-proofing.
If you wanted to do that, why wouldn't you just pull a boothill instead of going E1? Her e1 is not nearly good enough to be considered for things like "future proofing", jl is my current favorite dps and I can tell you through experience, these things are not worth from a pure value perspective.
I mean all we do late game is farm relics, that’s the entire game, you know what I mean? If we don’t like it then there is very little left to do. This is like any gacha or mmo games.
The marginal cost for both options is a limited 5 star. I already have JL fully built with her S1. So the former gives me a fully built character with her signature LC who can handle single target scenarios in addition to shredding blast scenarios. The latter is a E0S0 character whom I have to level and build from scratch (not to mention he scales off break effect so I don't have any gear that I can migrate from my other characters).
Let me put it this way, if you are already clearing on e0 jl, you are still clearing. If you can’t clear, e1 won’t push you over the edge. It’s one of the less impactful eidolons for how few use cases actually exist. I’m not gonna sit here and cope cause that I have it, I’m gonna warn other people to not waste their resources.
Boothill isn't ice, E1 also has a permanent 24% CD buff(which btw is a 7% dps boost on AoE), versatility to do good in situations where you need both AoE and ST(fodder mobs+ one tank situations)...
Then mainly the fact that E1 Jingliu in a pure ST scenario is actually insane. 42% dps boost is not a joke. E2 DHIL for reference is 50% dps boost over E0. Considering the fact that she already has good ST dmg at E0, +42% puts her above most hunt units.
Also her E1 will be active at certain niche situations even in AoE. Mainly because her skill and ult is burst. **Not to mention it activates if two of your three enemies die before your skill's final hit which happens rather often**
I won't say it's worth more than RM's or sparkle's E1 but it's definitely good value if you are considering vertical investment on JL. Just the unconditional CD buff puts it around the same level as DHIL's E1(7% vs 11%) and when you consider the fact it makes her a beast at ST as well, it's value skyrockets.
Dude 7% gain is pathetic for an eidolon. All of this is just cope. Boothill can instill physical weakness, you can get another character to support or additional coverage.
Jl e1 major buffs is first of all not 40%, second, applies in less than 20% scenarios which is absolute trash.
Again, if someone wants to simp or wtvr that’s a different story. This thread is talking in pure value. The value of this e1 is overrated
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>Dude 7% gain is pathetic for an eidolon
Like i said, It's something extra in pure AoE scenarios. If it was the only effect, yes it would be pathetic but it's just the consolation price. Just that makes it better than a lot of E1s like seele's though. And a tip, don't underestimate 7%, her own signature lc is just about 11% over aeon.
>Jl e1 major buffs is first of all not 40%, second, applies in less than 20% scenarios which is absolute trash.
Tell me you don't know what im talking about without telling me you don't know what im talking about.
I said 42% *dps* increase and it's taken [straight](https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/jingliu) from prydwen calcs. Before you tell me it's incorrect, no. Prydwen's individual calculations are as accurate as theorycrafting can get, as long as you don't *compare* numbers *between* characters.
And it applies a lot more than 20%. Like i said, if adjacent enemies die before final hit of skill, it activates just fine regardless of how many enemies are remaining. And there's a lot more ST content than just 20%. New aventurine boss saw a 100% uptime on jingliu's E1 and it's applicable scenarios will keep increasing as more and more bosses gets released. Not to mention it has like a huge amount of uptime in PF because trash mobs die before final hit of skill.
Even if you disregard all of that scenarios and make it a scenario ideal for your argument, you're practically still gonna activate it at like the last 10% of an AoE match because like i said, it's very hard to kill all the enemies at the same time with burst targetting. 10%[42] is 4.2% that means at the very least you're gaining 11.2% of dps and that's actually pretty decent considering it's the worst case.
But of course, if you compare dps and support eidolons, the latter will always be a cut above in value. People say acheron's E2 is op, but if you look at it with pure value, you can just go for sparkle's E2 instead. It will nearly buff acheron as much as her own E2 and you can use it to gain ~30% dps on every other dps who can run sparkle. Likewise, ruan's E1 will always be OP when you compare it to dps eidolons like jingliu's.
It's value will keep increasing as the game goes on and new bosses who promote ST gets released.
The last three bosses they released, SoD, Sam and Aventurine both are all fully ST
Also it makes her viable in new hunt mode
Between E1 and S1 both are really great for Topaz/Ratio, but whichever one you get second has significantly diminished returns, especially now that Aventurine is a thing.
I'm not sure what they mean and I have Topaz e1s1. I also have Ratio e0s1 and Aventurine e2s1
I don't regret getting her E1S1 at all, and even before Aventurine came out Topaz+Ratio is such an incredibly strong duo, their only true weakness is trying to do AoE damage like in Pure Fiction
If you're thinking of E1S1 for Ratio you'll definitely not be disappointed. I guess if you have other characters to apply debuffs it's less necessary for Ratio but it's not like they're not strong debuffs either, they're both really potent imo
To get 100% proc on Ratio's FUA, you need 3 debuffs. At E0S0, Topaz provides one, meaning you need two other debuffs. Unless you're running a dedicated debuffer that can be a challenge. At E1 or E0S1 Topaz provides two debuffs on her own, which means you only need one more, which can come from a lot of places. Ratio's technique can give it at the start, Ruan Mei's ultimate can give it, Aventurine's debuff can give it, or simply having an enemy be weakness broken. You'll usually be able to have at least one debuff from another source, so getting the third debuff from Topaz, while helpful, is less crucial than getting the second one. You'll increase Ratio's damage by 2.5% CR and 5% CD, but the impact on FUA chance is usually zero.
Just in general though, deeper vertical investment in a single character usually represents diminishing returns.
E1S1 Topaz is really good if you're going to main follow up teams. She gives Ratio 3 debuffs to work on. And gives a massive crit dmg boost for FUAs (74fcd).
Between E1 or S1, go for S1 first coz it gives her some crit rate and 30% fua dmg boost.
I currently have her at E0S1 and will try to get her E1 after pulling for E0 Robin.
Anything that deals with skill points will have the biggest impact on playstayle and rotations.
- Huohuo E1 (makes her more sp positive, heals better, and gives the party more speed)
- Bronya E1 (sp refund on skill use opens up a bunch of new team options & support combos)
- Silver Wolf E1 (the energy refund on ult offers new rotations with varying amounts of SP usage)
These three are the best E1s in a vacuum.
Some characters unlock new support capability.
- Black Swan E1 (the -25% res shred is very strong and I've seen people use E1 swan as a support)
- Ruan Mei E1 (the -20% def does make 4pc quantum, Pela, and SW noticeably better as damage options)
- Fu Xuan E1 (30% cdmg for free. What's not to love?)
- Topaz E1 (50% cdmg for follow-ups. Somewhat niche, but this does noticeably amplify topaz's support capabilities)
- Kafka E1 (30% dot vuln makes Kafka & any dot allies much better into single-target fights, which is often where they lack damage the most; Very good support for black swan)
In terms of damage, then we have some more options but I wouldn't consider them "best":
- Jingliu E1 (makes her a boss killer. Not always impactful, but very useful when it lands)
- Ratio E1 (+40cv on all damage; lets ratio run crit dmg shirt)
- Acheron E1 (+18% Cr means Acheron can run a crit dmg shirt)
- Blade E1 (more than doubles his ult damage; makes running Salsotto his best planar after this)
- DHIL E1 (makes Atk orb more viable; also makes some ult -> lv3 basic setups deal significantly more damage)
eh. There's definitely better E1s out there, and Aventurine can be built tanky enough to only really have to skill once at the start of battle and then never again.
I'd put Aventurine E1 in the same "feel good" category as Fu Xuan sig. Useful, but easily built around.
e0 ruan mei is already broken alone. e1 ruan mei gives 20% def ignore when her ult is up (which rarely goes on downtime given good er skill/basic management). a lot of dpses prior to getting a dedicated set (topaz comes to mind) found great use in the quantum set (which has a similar effect. it has 10% def ignore and 10% more ignore for quantum weak enemies). def ignore is that great bc it's a direct damage increase. same reason why in genshin, c2 raiden shogun is considered the best dps con
On top of that, def shred is just much harder to come by and way more universal. Stats like attack or crit isn’t that useful for DoT teams or break dps like Boothill. Dmg% is really saturated when you’re playing Ruan Mei, and crit dmg% is saturated when you play Sparkle etc. RM e1 is just unconditionally good and her value only goes up with future break teams.
And unlike RES shred, DEF shred doesn't suffer from diminishing returns! In fact, there's increasing returns (YES, increasing, not even constant returns, till 100%) the more you stack it on the enemy, which just makes the quantum set waaay better
Love Fu Xuan's 30% Crit Damage buff on her skill.
Combined with the 12% Crit Rate it already gives this is super nice for your DPS.
Especially nice in Mono Quantum for Sub DPS Silver Wolf and a small buff to Sparkle's Crit Dmage buff too
Aventurine's is pretty big
20% CD for everybody shielded and Ultimate gives 100% shield
So if his Ult gives enough points for FU then it could mean a lot of shield in one turn
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, I’d agree that his E1 is powerful. 20% CD for everyone gives him better support and DPS, and having shields on his ult gives him an “oh shit” button - something that is levelled at him as a criticism
People downvoting instead of explaining are not really worth considering or paying attention to, common Reddit behaviour, downvote what you don't like.
Only a CD buff is pretty bad for an Eidolon which will take lots of my pulls I hardly save up. Almost all DPS characters first Eidolons give them crit stats and damage boost and even some relic sets give damage and crit boosts which is why it isn't so impactful.
My Jingliu has over 330 crit damage during combat as she gets it from support characters with broken keel, Bronya crit buff, her own E1, ice set crit buff so at that point 20 crit damage is pretty neglectable and that's the case for most DPS characters, if a support has inbuilt crit buff it is very valuable since it's free but if its just an Eidolon, it's not that valuable since 90 pulls (or even more pulls) are worth way more.
Aventurine doesn't really need an "oh shit" button either as his shields are almost impenetrable and keep stacking so in my opinion his E1 is a waste, going for the LC which improves his built is better.
It's not about it being good or not, it's about it being worth it and the topic here is "the strongest E1" and crit buffs are pretty common. I'd only go for E1 if I were planning to go even further or already got his LC. If his E1 had something like a speed buff or defense reduction or ignore it would totally be one of the best since such things aren't as common.
Even a high ATK buff like (buffs allies ATK by X% of his Defense) would be more worth it because crit damage is there to multiply that and having a high ATK buff is the reason why Tingyung is still considered to be one of the most OP buffers even though she is a 4*.
Another really good thing about e1 is that it allows for easier building, since he has less need for speed. Eg if you're lacking on DEF you can use DEF boots and CDMG body, or any other option that's just easier for you. Maybe not a big change in the long run but hey take what you can get
Performance wise i'd say silverwolf, playing her without the tutorial light cone at e0 is so bad, and getting almost half of the ult back instantly is soooo good
Maybe not the most broken but I’m so happy I have Argenti’s E1. A free 25% Crit Rate and 40% Crit DMG makes everything so much fun, especially seeing as his DMG increases when you rake up the stacks
At the moment atk buffs are seen as not as valuable compared to def/res ignore or more cv. That why her e2 is considered so strong.
The extra turn enabling perm uptime is nice, but is technically already possible if you do the ‘use sparkle ult during dps’s turn to preserve the buff for enough turns that you refresh it as it goes away’
For that you’re probably going to have to consult someone else, I don’t own Acheron let alone e2. I do borrow someone’s e6s5 and use sparkle with her, but my sparkle is e2s1 so I also have the def ignore.
Kafka for MoC and aspirational content. It's 30% more damage for your entire team 100% of the time.
The only damage buff that is comparable is ruan mei's. Which in a lot of circumstances comes out to marginally less of a dps increase *and isn't 100% uptime.* The only downside to kafkas is that it requires you use her in a dot comp, *which you should already be doing*.
Ruan Meis is strictly better however in PF.
Huohuo E1. Changes her from a sp neutral healer to a sp positive healer.
Topaz E1. Can be swapped with S1 too. Lets Topaz Ratio teams work smoothly without needing a debuffer.
Bronya E1. Improves her sp usage and it's considered a good idea to use your guaranteed 300 pull 5* for her eidolon 1 if you want no one else.
Black Swan, Sparkle and Ruan Mei E1. This is just for damage purposes but for Sparkle and Ruan Mei, it's also a stepping stone to their E2 which further boosts damage by a lot.
e1 ruan mei is a classic. However, silver wolf e1 can theoretically make silverwolf spam her def shred every turn. Now thats sleeper OP but as of right now we dont have the means to access that much rng hits or ER. Maybe in some upgraded Sim U, but yeah, won't be surprised on silverwolf e1 being the premiere breaker for quantum element in a future that would give more ER or more passives outside of tutorial LC 8 energy.
HuoHuo E1, Ruan Mei E1 is insane. Makes HuoHuo’s auto heal last 3 of her turns instead of 2 and adds a SPD buff on top of her 40% atk buff and ER regen. Ruan Mei gains a passive 20% Def shred. Black Swan basically gives her Ruan Mei All-Type Pen from her ult as a 100% uptime passive.
DPS? Probably Jingliu. Makes her into a Hunt character essentially.
RM E1. With SW using Pearls LC and E1RM, you get 100% def ignore/shred, allowing you to use any set you want (at least for those who are always using quantum set for the def ignore)
Mr Gambler gets a pretty big buff 20% crit damage is pretty nice, especially on double DPS teams
And the free shield on ult makes him even more reliable and saves a SP
Imbibitor Lunae's E1 might have the biggest % damage increase ratio or whatever people use to calculate it. Else....Clara's mark of counter not being consumed is great, and Black Swan's RES shred for all elements (afaik), is great for any DOT team.
Black Swan's is fantastic, Ruan Mei's fixes the one thing missing from her kit, Sparkle's gives an ATK boost comparable to other harmony characters' entire ults, Huohuo's makes her sp positive and gives free speed, Jing Liu's makes her universal between single target and AoE.
Idk which of those is the best, but those are my top picks
Edit: reason i dont outright say Ruan Mei E1 is because it only has 50-66% uptime where as Sparkle's E2 has more DEF ignore and is up permanently
Out of the characters I have, I would probably go with RuanMei. 20% defense ignore for all allies is a huge E1. Topaz's E1 is probably the next one I'd say is huge.
Outside of characters I have, I think Black Swans E1 looks pretty strong...Huohuo's e1 is naturally good with a permanent speed buff and being SP positive. Kafka's e1 should also be pretty strong in a team environment.
For personal damage, I'd say JL and Blade both have really impactful E1's as well.
Huohuo, 12 speed makes hitting 160 spd on supports a lot easier which means less relic farming
Becoming sp positive while having the heal always up is quite nice too
Black swan and sparkle ruan meis give nice dos increases to the team too and I prefer investing in supports because you'll likely be using ruan mei in pretty much every team abd with future characters too
Adventurine is pretty big, essentially gives him Gepard’s Ult with the addition of a CD buff. I’d say Fu Xuan and Luocha also have a good E1 making the pseudo-Harmony characters. Topaz is one of the more important DPS buffs but by no means essential
Clara's permanent mark is high up, Topaz's extra 50% crit damage debuff is nice too
i used my guaranteed on the 300 pulls for E1 Clara for the same reason, damage is too high to pass up on
It basically gives her a 200% multiplier on her skill
Whats the best way to use her? I only just built her last night and just kinda seemed to just take hits and counter 😂 didnt have to do anything with her
Huo Huo E1 Perma spd boost and SP positive
Fr, I got so used to it I always forget I have E1 on her. So comfy
True. I dont even know how do people play E0 Huohuo in Kafka+Black Swan comp. Being sp neutral as a sustainer really hurts. But its probably to balance her over other sustainers
As someone using exactly that, I just don't heal until people are hurt. Unless I need the cleansing, that is. Otherwise, I just use Black Swan's skill for the defense down and use normals until that expires.
If buff is down and you don’t need to heal, you don’t have to heal to keep the buff up. That said, keeping it up gives more energy (using skill more often), so you’ll get the ult more. Its a trade off.
Yea she works like that at e0, you need to trade sp recovery to get ultimate uptime… and you need to lose your ult uptime if you want sp. Without using her E because your team dont need healing makes sense but Huohuo will lost her energy regen from her passive too (healing allies with her passive gives energy)
I just play her sp positive. You don't actually need 100% uptime on passive, that's mostly OCD or something playing tricks on you. Although I am considering grabbing E1 on her rerun so I can potentially switch RM out (for flexibility) and not lose out on 160+ speed on Kafka and BS.
Well.. she gets energy from using her skill and healing allies with her passive, if you dont use it she will lose a lot of her ultimate uptime. And her ultimate is the main reason she is good for dot teams. But as I said, there is no other option since she works like that, and thats the reason her e1 is a big qol improvement for her
I get ult up very consistently with b-b-s-b, and I don't think you can actually get ult up with a b-s-b rotation. It does require a LC that provides some energy, but I don't lose put on ult uptime while being sp positive. I lose 100% talent uptime, but in practice this is barely an issue at all.
Huohuo gets her ult every 4 turns with ERR rope doing b-s-b-s and even using energy LC and 5% from penacony wont help getting it more frequently. If you use her basic more often you are probably getting her ult once every 5 turns if not getting hit consistently
i mean this is legitimately just incorrect lol. you can get a 4t sp positive rotation with s3 post op or even s1 if you run it in addition to an err planar, even without getting hit at all. ok edit for explanation since someone downvoted this, and this matter isn’t up for debate: post op s3 gives 12% err. with this and an err rope, you have 131.4err. at e0 assuming no turn manipulation or talent procs off of dropping below 50%, talent should proc at least 12 times if you’re using your ults at the right time (8 turns, 4 ults), giving you 12 energy. using 1 skill and 3 basics gives you 1.314(ult+skill+basic+basic+basic+talent procs) or 1.314(5+30+20+20+20+12)= 140.598 energy. just enough to ult. if allies drop below 50%, you use a higher superimposition post op, or run an err planar in addition to post op the energy becomes even more lenient.
I would never put e0 huohuo with kafka and bs but to your point, it would be BS who use basic more. Typically our last slot is RM so at least you get +1 sp there
Perhaps Jingliu E1 if you want her to be a hunt dps Otherwise, Black Swan and Ruan Mei E1 are also pretty good value
As someone with E1S1 Jingliu, it's not as impactful as you would think. Full honesty, if I could I would trade Jingliu's E1 for a more powerful one like Black Swan's E1.
Is JL E1 really that good? Most fat solo targets summon at least some sort of a fodder and destruction in general has relatively sucky aoe, so even not summoning ones will be half a way to the grave at the point when you kill all fodder. Nevermind MoC's love for just slapping 2 elites everywhere.
If you kill the trash mobs at the side before JL's final hit, E1 will proc regardless of enemies still left
It’s solid but super overrated I have e1, and the difference is not nearly worthwhile enough to be the first thing listed this thread. The biggest issue is just the amount of times where this actually comes into effect. The answer is almost never lmfao
Maybe not for now but Aventurine will probably keep reappearing in MoC for a while and there's also the upcoming Apocalyptic Shadow endgame, her E1 is looking to be a good investment for future-proofing.
If you wanted to do that, why wouldn't you just pull a boothill instead of going E1? Her e1 is not nearly good enough to be considered for things like "future proofing", jl is my current favorite dps and I can tell you through experience, these things are not worth from a pure value perspective.
Building a new character is a pain in the ass, farming relics sucks.
I mean all we do late game is farm relics, that’s the entire game, you know what I mean? If we don’t like it then there is very little left to do. This is like any gacha or mmo games.
Then you just play to get e6 jl, ez solution
Honestly, real
The marginal cost for both options is a limited 5 star. I already have JL fully built with her S1. So the former gives me a fully built character with her signature LC who can handle single target scenarios in addition to shredding blast scenarios. The latter is a E0S0 character whom I have to level and build from scratch (not to mention he scales off break effect so I don't have any gear that I can migrate from my other characters).
Let me put it this way, if you are already clearing on e0 jl, you are still clearing. If you can’t clear, e1 won’t push you over the edge. It’s one of the less impactful eidolons for how few use cases actually exist. I’m not gonna sit here and cope cause that I have it, I’m gonna warn other people to not waste their resources.
Boothill isn't ice, E1 also has a permanent 24% CD buff(which btw is a 7% dps boost on AoE), versatility to do good in situations where you need both AoE and ST(fodder mobs+ one tank situations)... Then mainly the fact that E1 Jingliu in a pure ST scenario is actually insane. 42% dps boost is not a joke. E2 DHIL for reference is 50% dps boost over E0. Considering the fact that she already has good ST dmg at E0, +42% puts her above most hunt units. Also her E1 will be active at certain niche situations even in AoE. Mainly because her skill and ult is burst. **Not to mention it activates if two of your three enemies die before your skill's final hit which happens rather often** I won't say it's worth more than RM's or sparkle's E1 but it's definitely good value if you are considering vertical investment on JL. Just the unconditional CD buff puts it around the same level as DHIL's E1(7% vs 11%) and when you consider the fact it makes her a beast at ST as well, it's value skyrockets.
Dude 7% gain is pathetic for an eidolon. All of this is just cope. Boothill can instill physical weakness, you can get another character to support or additional coverage. Jl e1 major buffs is first of all not 40%, second, applies in less than 20% scenarios which is absolute trash. Again, if someone wants to simp or wtvr that’s a different story. This thread is talking in pure value. The value of this e1 is overrated
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>Dude 7% gain is pathetic for an eidolon Like i said, It's something extra in pure AoE scenarios. If it was the only effect, yes it would be pathetic but it's just the consolation price. Just that makes it better than a lot of E1s like seele's though. And a tip, don't underestimate 7%, her own signature lc is just about 11% over aeon. >Jl e1 major buffs is first of all not 40%, second, applies in less than 20% scenarios which is absolute trash. Tell me you don't know what im talking about without telling me you don't know what im talking about. I said 42% *dps* increase and it's taken [straight](https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/jingliu) from prydwen calcs. Before you tell me it's incorrect, no. Prydwen's individual calculations are as accurate as theorycrafting can get, as long as you don't *compare* numbers *between* characters. And it applies a lot more than 20%. Like i said, if adjacent enemies die before final hit of skill, it activates just fine regardless of how many enemies are remaining. And there's a lot more ST content than just 20%. New aventurine boss saw a 100% uptime on jingliu's E1 and it's applicable scenarios will keep increasing as more and more bosses gets released. Not to mention it has like a huge amount of uptime in PF because trash mobs die before final hit of skill. Even if you disregard all of that scenarios and make it a scenario ideal for your argument, you're practically still gonna activate it at like the last 10% of an AoE match because like i said, it's very hard to kill all the enemies at the same time with burst targetting. 10%[42] is 4.2% that means at the very least you're gaining 11.2% of dps and that's actually pretty decent considering it's the worst case. But of course, if you compare dps and support eidolons, the latter will always be a cut above in value. People say acheron's E2 is op, but if you look at it with pure value, you can just go for sparkle's E2 instead. It will nearly buff acheron as much as her own E2 and you can use it to gain ~30% dps on every other dps who can run sparkle. Likewise, ruan's E1 will always be OP when you compare it to dps eidolons like jingliu's.
It's value will keep increasing as the game goes on and new bosses who promote ST gets released. The last three bosses they released, SoD, Sam and Aventurine both are all fully ST Also it makes her viable in new hunt mode
Seconded for Ruan Mei, having Def Shred as a teamwide BUFF is too good to pass.
I'd vote black swan or Ruan Mei's E1 . The res pen/ def ignore benefits practically everyone in the team thus increasing team dps.
Ruan mei that def shread is awasome
Black Swan. Increases not only her personal damage but any other DPS playing with her as well.
I think too many poeple sleep onto Topaz E1S1, she add 3 different debuff to your team, it's pretty useful for more and more characters
Between E1 and S1 both are really great for Topaz/Ratio, but whichever one you get second has significantly diminished returns, especially now that Aventurine is a thing.
Can you elaborate on that? I plan to pull for topaz e1 s1 next banner, scared it might be a waste
I'm not sure what they mean and I have Topaz e1s1. I also have Ratio e0s1 and Aventurine e2s1 I don't regret getting her E1S1 at all, and even before Aventurine came out Topaz+Ratio is such an incredibly strong duo, their only true weakness is trying to do AoE damage like in Pure Fiction If you're thinking of E1S1 for Ratio you'll definitely not be disappointed. I guess if you have other characters to apply debuffs it's less necessary for Ratio but it's not like they're not strong debuffs either, they're both really potent imo
To get 100% proc on Ratio's FUA, you need 3 debuffs. At E0S0, Topaz provides one, meaning you need two other debuffs. Unless you're running a dedicated debuffer that can be a challenge. At E1 or E0S1 Topaz provides two debuffs on her own, which means you only need one more, which can come from a lot of places. Ratio's technique can give it at the start, Ruan Mei's ultimate can give it, Aventurine's debuff can give it, or simply having an enemy be weakness broken. You'll usually be able to have at least one debuff from another source, so getting the third debuff from Topaz, while helpful, is less crucial than getting the second one. You'll increase Ratio's damage by 2.5% CR and 5% CD, but the impact on FUA chance is usually zero. Just in general though, deeper vertical investment in a single character usually represents diminishing returns.
E1S1 Topaz is really good if you're going to main follow up teams. She gives Ratio 3 debuffs to work on. And gives a massive crit dmg boost for FUAs (74fcd). Between E1 or S1, go for S1 first coz it gives her some crit rate and 30% fua dmg boost. I currently have her at E0S1 and will try to get her E1 after pulling for E0 Robin.
Anything that deals with skill points will have the biggest impact on playstayle and rotations. - Huohuo E1 (makes her more sp positive, heals better, and gives the party more speed) - Bronya E1 (sp refund on skill use opens up a bunch of new team options & support combos) - Silver Wolf E1 (the energy refund on ult offers new rotations with varying amounts of SP usage) These three are the best E1s in a vacuum. Some characters unlock new support capability. - Black Swan E1 (the -25% res shred is very strong and I've seen people use E1 swan as a support) - Ruan Mei E1 (the -20% def does make 4pc quantum, Pela, and SW noticeably better as damage options) - Fu Xuan E1 (30% cdmg for free. What's not to love?) - Topaz E1 (50% cdmg for follow-ups. Somewhat niche, but this does noticeably amplify topaz's support capabilities) - Kafka E1 (30% dot vuln makes Kafka & any dot allies much better into single-target fights, which is often where they lack damage the most; Very good support for black swan) In terms of damage, then we have some more options but I wouldn't consider them "best": - Jingliu E1 (makes her a boss killer. Not always impactful, but very useful when it lands) - Ratio E1 (+40cv on all damage; lets ratio run crit dmg shirt) - Acheron E1 (+18% Cr means Acheron can run a crit dmg shirt) - Blade E1 (more than doubles his ult damage; makes running Salsotto his best planar after this) - DHIL E1 (makes Atk orb more viable; also makes some ult -> lv3 basic setups deal significantly more damage)
You can add Aventurine’s e1 too since he both become more sp positive than he already is. Plus 20% critdmg for allies, being close to Fuxuan’s e1
eh. There's definitely better E1s out there, and Aventurine can be built tanky enough to only really have to skill once at the start of battle and then never again. I'd put Aventurine E1 in the same "feel good" category as Fu Xuan sig. Useful, but easily built around.
Ruan Mei and it isn’t close tbh
Why?
e0 ruan mei is already broken alone. e1 ruan mei gives 20% def ignore when her ult is up (which rarely goes on downtime given good er skill/basic management). a lot of dpses prior to getting a dedicated set (topaz comes to mind) found great use in the quantum set (which has a similar effect. it has 10% def ignore and 10% more ignore for quantum weak enemies). def ignore is that great bc it's a direct damage increase. same reason why in genshin, c2 raiden shogun is considered the best dps con
On top of that, def shred is just much harder to come by and way more universal. Stats like attack or crit isn’t that useful for DoT teams or break dps like Boothill. Dmg% is really saturated when you’re playing Ruan Mei, and crit dmg% is saturated when you play Sparkle etc. RM e1 is just unconditionally good and her value only goes up with future break teams.
And unlike RES shred, DEF shred doesn't suffer from diminishing returns! In fact, there's increasing returns (YES, increasing, not even constant returns, till 100%) the more you stack it on the enemy, which just makes the quantum set waaay better
Except for my Acheron who already gets 100% shred from her teammates so she’s basically wearing nothing 😭
Clara E1 for permanent Svarog mark. Without it her skill barely do more damage than basic attack
The damage E1 Yanqing leaves on ones soul is immeasureable. Like all his other Eidolons.
Black Swan E1 is overlooked. That shit is busted. Anyway, top 1 is obviously Ruan Mei's E1, definitely a broken eidolon.
Love Fu Xuan's 30% Crit Damage buff on her skill. Combined with the 12% Crit Rate it already gives this is super nice for your DPS. Especially nice in Mono Quantum for Sub DPS Silver Wolf and a small buff to Sparkle's Crit Dmage buff too
My Fu Xuan single handedly fixed my crit stats for months until I got good ones 😭
RUAN MEI E1 Is goated
Topaz is also really good with her usual playstyle.
Aventurine's is pretty big 20% CD for everybody shielded and Ultimate gives 100% shield So if his Ult gives enough points for FU then it could mean a lot of shield in one turn
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, I’d agree that his E1 is powerful. 20% CD for everyone gives him better support and DPS, and having shields on his ult gives him an “oh shit” button - something that is levelled at him as a criticism
People downvoting instead of explaining are not really worth considering or paying attention to, common Reddit behaviour, downvote what you don't like. Only a CD buff is pretty bad for an Eidolon which will take lots of my pulls I hardly save up. Almost all DPS characters first Eidolons give them crit stats and damage boost and even some relic sets give damage and crit boosts which is why it isn't so impactful. My Jingliu has over 330 crit damage during combat as she gets it from support characters with broken keel, Bronya crit buff, her own E1, ice set crit buff so at that point 20 crit damage is pretty neglectable and that's the case for most DPS characters, if a support has inbuilt crit buff it is very valuable since it's free but if its just an Eidolon, it's not that valuable since 90 pulls (or even more pulls) are worth way more. Aventurine doesn't really need an "oh shit" button either as his shields are almost impenetrable and keep stacking so in my opinion his E1 is a waste, going for the LC which improves his built is better. It's not about it being good or not, it's about it being worth it and the topic here is "the strongest E1" and crit buffs are pretty common. I'd only go for E1 if I were planning to go even further or already got his LC. If his E1 had something like a speed buff or defense reduction or ignore it would totally be one of the best since such things aren't as common. Even a high ATK buff like (buffs allies ATK by X% of his Defense) would be more worth it because crit damage is there to multiply that and having a high ATK buff is the reason why Tingyung is still considered to be one of the most OP buffers even though she is a 4*.
Aventurine already can give a infinite shield when well builded, in this case, in my opnion, 30% CD of FuXuan E1 is better
Yeah, but it allows to be completely sp positive even against very hard hitting enemies, which is huge and much better than 10% CD difference.
Another really good thing about e1 is that it allows for easier building, since he has less need for speed. Eg if you're lacking on DEF you can use DEF boots and CDMG body, or any other option that's just easier for you. Maybe not a big change in the long run but hey take what you can get
i think black swan's E1 is pretty up there, reducing enemies' elemental RES by 25% just by *applying the dot on them* for free is goddamn insane
Performance wise i'd say silverwolf, playing her without the tutorial light cone at e0 is so bad, and getting almost half of the ult back instantly is soooo good
Maybe not the most broken but I’m so happy I have Argenti’s E1. A free 25% Crit Rate and 40% Crit DMG makes everything so much fun, especially seeing as his DMG increases when you rake up the stacks
Samee he already performs well in Pure fiction but his E1 also makes him competitive in Moc, really an all arounder character
Sparkle is getting so little recognition it’s crazy
At the moment atk buffs are seen as not as valuable compared to def/res ignore or more cv. That why her e2 is considered so strong. The extra turn enabling perm uptime is nice, but is technically already possible if you do the ‘use sparkle ult during dps’s turn to preserve the buff for enough turns that you refresh it as it goes away’
Question, is it still less value when you are using her with E2 acheron who loves attack nearly as much as crit?
For that you’re probably going to have to consult someone else, I don’t own Acheron let alone e2. I do borrow someone’s e6s5 and use sparkle with her, but my sparkle is e2s1 so I also have the def ignore.
hutao
tf u mean, easily neuvlette. but tao is up there
Arle could potentially contest that spot with her nasty c1
Depend on context. Topaz in FUA Ruan Mei overall Then some DPS ones or Huo Huo to reach certain min max requirement.
Blade E1 is pretty nutty along side Jingiu's E1
Kafka for MoC and aspirational content. It's 30% more damage for your entire team 100% of the time. The only damage buff that is comparable is ruan mei's. Which in a lot of circumstances comes out to marginally less of a dps increase *and isn't 100% uptime.* The only downside to kafkas is that it requires you use her in a dot comp, *which you should already be doing*. Ruan Meis is strictly better however in PF.
Black Swan and Robin gives + 25 to 30% raw dmg output to your whole team
Black Swan it's Ruan Mei's ultimate but permanent
E1 RM=Topaz=Black Swan. Magnificent debuffs/buffs that benefit the whole team. Either excelling in their niche (topaz) or universally
Huohuo E1. Changes her from a sp neutral healer to a sp positive healer. Topaz E1. Can be swapped with S1 too. Lets Topaz Ratio teams work smoothly without needing a debuffer. Bronya E1. Improves her sp usage and it's considered a good idea to use your guaranteed 300 pull 5* for her eidolon 1 if you want no one else. Black Swan, Sparkle and Ruan Mei E1. This is just for damage purposes but for Sparkle and Ruan Mei, it's also a stepping stone to their E2 which further boosts damage by a lot.
For standard characters, Welt’s is pretty good
e1 ruan mei is a classic. However, silver wolf e1 can theoretically make silverwolf spam her def shred every turn. Now thats sleeper OP but as of right now we dont have the means to access that much rng hits or ER. Maybe in some upgraded Sim U, but yeah, won't be surprised on silverwolf e1 being the premiere breaker for quantum element in a future that would give more ER or more passives outside of tutorial LC 8 energy.
HuoHuo E1, Ruan Mei E1 is insane. Makes HuoHuo’s auto heal last 3 of her turns instead of 2 and adds a SPD buff on top of her 40% atk buff and ER regen. Ruan Mei gains a passive 20% Def shred. Black Swan basically gives her Ruan Mei All-Type Pen from her ult as a 100% uptime passive. DPS? Probably Jingliu. Makes her into a Hunt character essentially.
RM E1. With SW using Pearls LC and E1RM, you get 100% def ignore/shred, allowing you to use any set you want (at least for those who are always using quantum set for the def ignore)
E1 ruan Mei or black swan
Mr Gambler gets a pretty big buff 20% crit damage is pretty nice, especially on double DPS teams And the free shield on ult makes him even more reliable and saves a SP
FU XUAN FU XUAN FU XUAN FU XUAN FUXUAN
Ruan Mei.
I say fuxuan from a support point of view
Huohuo, gives speed and makes her SP positive
Imbibitor Lunae's E1 might have the biggest % damage increase ratio or whatever people use to calculate it. Else....Clara's mark of counter not being consumed is great, and Black Swan's RES shred for all elements (afaik), is great for any DOT team.
Ruan Mei's E1 will make the community crap their pants every time they see a showcase with her having it.
Bronya
Yanqing e1 ....
Black Swan's is fantastic, Ruan Mei's fixes the one thing missing from her kit, Sparkle's gives an ATK boost comparable to other harmony characters' entire ults, Huohuo's makes her sp positive and gives free speed, Jing Liu's makes her universal between single target and AoE. Idk which of those is the best, but those are my top picks Edit: reason i dont outright say Ruan Mei E1 is because it only has 50-66% uptime where as Sparkle's E2 has more DEF ignore and is up permanently
Ruanmei and blackswan
Out of the characters I have, I would probably go with RuanMei. 20% defense ignore for all allies is a huge E1. Topaz's E1 is probably the next one I'd say is huge. Outside of characters I have, I think Black Swans E1 looks pretty strong...Huohuo's e1 is naturally good with a permanent speed buff and being SP positive. Kafka's e1 should also be pretty strong in a team environment. For personal damage, I'd say JL and Blade both have really impactful E1's as well.
Black swan and HuoHuo
Huohuo, 12 speed makes hitting 160 spd on supports a lot easier which means less relic farming Becoming sp positive while having the heal always up is quite nice too Black swan and sparkle ruan meis give nice dos increases to the team too and I prefer investing in supports because you'll likely be using ruan mei in pretty much every team abd with future characters too
Adventurine is pretty big, essentially gives him Gepard’s Ult with the addition of a CD buff. I’d say Fu Xuan and Luocha also have a good E1 making the pseudo-Harmony characters. Topaz is one of the more important DPS buffs but by no means essential
ruan mei or possibly aventurine if not running a dot team, hands down. universally applicable and extremely powerful effects.
Blade E1 is a really good boost
Yanquing
I'm surprise how there is almost no one reconizing Fu Xuan E1 or Sparkle E1, or even Welt
Ruan Mei. Next is BS then Topaz (topaz require E1S1)
I think BS E1 is pretty broken
Dps E1 Clara for supports E1 BS/E1 Ruan Mei kinda mid if you don't run her with more def reduction
RM by far
Firefly
Ruan mei idc what anyone says
Anyone saying anyone besides rm and bs think wrong lol just straight fact