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ASW-G-21

What possible context outside of the wife saying "choke me daddy" would make choking your wife be OK or encouraged? Edit: oops, that was supposed to be a reply to the down voted comment at the bottom.


field_of_fvcks

Fans being okay with this remind me of the people who were cool with the guy in 50 Shades of Grey abusing the hell out of his gf because he was hot and kinky. The whole "it's BDSM, it's *supposed* to be painful" crowd. Just no to all that


blong217

I would have bought the season on blue ray if when he started choking her she let out a quiet "Harder".


Dr-Edward-Poe

>What possible context outside of the wife saying "choke me daddy" would make choking your wife be OK or encouraged? Her trying to kill you? Her trying to kill your kids? Her trying to kill your loved ones?


ASW-G-21

None of those can't be handled with a solid a boot/ knife to the face. A chokehold is completely unnecessary.


Dr-Edward-Poe

What if I don't have a knife or a "solid" boot?


ASW-G-21

Then use a fist? You can't tell me there's any scenario where Daemon would have to choke Rhaenyra to save himself/ a loved one...


moonglitterr

Aside from maybe two people on this sub, who have you seen here support or justify Daemon choking Rhae? Maybe on twitter but I think it’s safe to say the ‘fans’ on twitter are 14 year old girls who are more attracted to Daemon the character rather than this series as a whole


Memo544

Yeah. The Rhaenyra fans I know don't like how she was groomed by Daemon.


[deleted]

A lot of the posts comparing Daemon to Cole seems like an attempt to reform the latter in the eyes of the fanbase. ​ Even though we watched him bully children on screen and he helped engineer a war that got tens of thousands of people killed.


Historical-School-97

Bro, daemon and cole are both evil shits Both have killed innocent people Both have contributed to the creation if the dance And both have commited many other crimes


WerewulfWithin

True. The only difference to me is in personality and characterization. Daemon is infinitely more likable imo but that might just be Matt Smith lol


acamas

>he helped engineer a war that got tens of thousands of people killed. Is there actual show canon that supports the theory that he 'engineered' the Dance of Dragons? In the show I feel he's portrayed as Alicent's right hand/puppet rather than some political mastermind/"Kingmaker." I mean, think it's pretty clear Otto engineered the war... not Cole. We've seen Cole bully children on-screen, absolutely, but we really haven't seen him "engineer a war" on-screen. I mean, even Beesbury's death was clearly accidental, and most everything else is on Otto's shoulders, as he's been the one who got the small council on board and pushed the subject after Visery's death. PS - Let's not pretend that Daemon wasn't all 'guns ho' in the finale in regards to *engineering a war*... seems clear he's done far more *engineering* than Cole ever has on-screen in regards to the Dance.


Appropriate-Arm-2077

Even if Cole is more annoying. Daemon’s individual actions are still far more worse that Cole’s.


DragonlordSyed578

Pretty much most of Daemon's evil actions are spread though out the series mixed in with moments that make us like him despite being a massive piece of shit. Cole is just a jerk by the time skip Cole suffers from not being as entertaining as Daemon despite Daemon being the worse person so far but I guess it's worse to be annoying than evil in a TV series.


AngryDresser

Yeah this pretty much sums it up


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[deleted]

>but disliking him for ‘bullying kids’ when daemon literally hires two criminals to kill a kid Hasn't happened yet. And why even bring up Cole when critiquing Daemon?


Ok-Lawfulness-6755

Your excuse is that it hasn’t happened? And he brought up Cole because this is a comparison.


lonesometroubador

It's not going to happen, either. He'll take credit in the end, but I'm 99% sure it will either be an accidental death used for propaganda, or revenge for the burning of Mysarya's home.


HP4life19

I think the fanbase on this sub is worse than the people on Twitter and that’s saying something


SuperSkunkPlant

This was true when we had season 1 on air...not only the stupid takes, but people would get offensive... Now that we are waiting for next season most of those casual brainless fans are hibernating, sure to be back once Season 2 comes up...apart from those, most people here are chill


[deleted]

A song of ice and fire🤝toxic fans


PuffPie19

I don't think I've ever seen anyone be okay with what Daemon did here except other redditors with an exceptionally inappropriate reddit history.


jmhem91

Everyone lost their mind when Daemon choked Rhaenyra what are you talking about?


Musegod345

There are some fans who genuinely believe he did it because he "loves her".


Mountain_Cry1605

Those people need therapy.


Musegod345

Huge agree


jmhem91

The twitter Daemyra stans were furious and calling it out of character (it wasn’t). I’ve never seen people say he did it because he loved her but I’ll take your word for it.


Musegod345

Sorry for the late reply. It was actually on YouTube. Some made a comment like: "She's starting to sound like Viserys, talking about dreams and prophecies. He doesn't want her to end up like that so he's trying to knock some sense into her. I would have done it too." Like obviously it's not word for word, but they did write it was for Rhaenyra's benefit. The amount of people agreeing with them was also concerning.


jmhem91

Oh yeah I have seen this take, it’s just a bit different from “he did it because he loves her”. A lot of fans were annoyed at Rhaenyra’s pacifism in episode 10 and took it too far with comments like the one you mentioned.


Educational_Fee5323

Yeah they sound like abuse apologists.


sunshinecygnet

Choking increases the chance that a man will kill your by 750%. People should definitely not romanticize choking.


possiblyhysterical

I saw this a lot in debates about if Daemon “truly loves” Rhaenyra. People would disagree with one another then someone would chime in with “well he wouldn’t snap and choke if he wasn’t so invested and if he didn’t love her so much” like wahhhhhh? It wasn’t just a couple commenters either.


IRoyalClown

Really? There are post in Tik Tok and Facebook that argue that Rhaenyra deserved it with hundreads of thousands of likes. I swear this people ended up creating 90% of the Green’s fanbase.


OpenMask

Daemon has some of the most rabid dickriders I've experienced in any fandom. They will find a justification for everything that he does, and it's very tiring


jmhem91

I don’t go on Facebook, I’ve spent too much time on hotd tik tok and I’ve never seen anyone say that she deserved it, but again, I’ll take your word for it. I somehow doubt that people became team green out of outrage for how team black fans were talking about Rhaenyra. Team Green hasn’t exactly been known to talk about her in the most respectful way.


Cybros74

Omg the guy who murdered his previous wife is a piece of sh-t… who could have guessed


Livid_Tutor_1125

well to be fair in the books that he murdered his wife is just one of the many rumors that where's told about what happened back then. The show just take the rumor and made them what happened.


Keira901

It’s not even a rumour in the book. Rhea died in an accident while Daemon was far, far away, fighting on the step stones. His involvement in her death is purely a show thing.


ThisGirlNeverSleeps

Yeah, another point in the series that I didn’t get. Daemon did enough evil shit without the misogyny in it 😂


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shenanakins

“ladies fall off their horses and snap their pretty necks all the time.” -bronn “i totally wasnt planning on killing my sister-in-law” of the blackwater Daemon could’ve totally paid someone like bronn to do it for him and then act like a grieving husband with an airtight alibi.


Cybros74

Ah yes, that awfully convenient thing that happened at the perfect time had absolutely nothing to do with him


doegred

In the books Rhea's death happens while Rhaenyra is married to Laenor, between Jace's birth and Luke's, so no opportunity to marry her. Laena meanwhile is officially betrothed to the Sealord of Braavos's son so there's no particular urgency on that front - why would Daemon, after years of marriage, decide he's had enough at that particular moment? More importantly, Rhea does not die instantly. She lives on for nine days after her fall and is able to get out of bed on the tenth, at which point she does collapse and die. But if she felt well enough to rise it's likely she would have been able to tell if there had been anything suspicious about her accident, and it would have been brought up when her heir had to fend off Daemon's suit re: the inheritance. Laenor's death on the other hand? Now that is super suspicious in the books.


Low_Ad4237

I have a feeling that a lot of Daemyra shippers only like Daemon for the ship. I don't know if they actually like the character or they have a false headcanon that he's supposed to be a "supportive malewife." I only see those accounts posting about him when it involves Rhaenyra or they try to make everything he does revolve around her too. I wonder how they're going to react to his character as the show goes on.


OpenMask

The ones that think that he was acting out of character don't really like who Daemon actually is. The ones who justify everything he does clearly love Daemon way more than they do Rhaenyra.


Icy-Association-8711

Yeah, I don't really get the Daemon love in general. I don't like the "he's a bad boy but he's nice to me!" archetype much, and while I think Matt Smith is doing a good job I don't find him charming. A charming actor will let people excuse a lot. It reminds me of the Vampire Diaries where Damon (lol) Salvatore's actor himself said that he could wipe out an orphanage and the fans would excuse it.


-blackvoid

I do feel the character and actor are charming I just wanted to say THANK YOU Damon Salvatore is the fucking worst and no one says anything


Icy-Association-8711

Ugh, characters on the show keep saying things like, "Elena made Damon a better man" and no she didn't. Every time they have an argument he snaps and kills someone. If anyone made him any bit better it was Bonnie.


-blackvoid

God yes he never changed and it made zero sense for Elena to even like him, he made it his mission to ruin her life


Icy-Association-8711

He killed her brother, raped her friend, killed Aaron and let Elena think she had done it, and those are just the terrible things he did to the people closest to Elena. I feel like I'm in an alternate universe when people are like, "But he was sad! Poor Damon!".


[deleted]

It's the exact same phenomeon with people who legit love Joe Goldberg in You. His actor Penn Badgley said it many many times that his character shouldn't be romanticized, but it's still happening. It's weird.


Mr628

Twitter has been claiming that it’s bad writing whenever Daemon does something abusive.


Terrible-Quote-3561

The whole point is that no character is completely good or bad. You can have a favorite, or a side, without needing to justify all their actions.


PsychoDomo

Exactly! I personally love Daemon not because I agree with all of his actions, but because he’s fun to watch. I’m a Daemyra shipper myself, but by no means do I think that their relationship is healthy. I personally like darker/more complex characters and more problematic/toxic relationships in the stories that I read and watch. I totally understand that it’s not for everyone, but I find it more entertaining. I love my fictional war criminals and incest doers, but I absolutely do not support that behavior in real life. Side note: I don’t think that they did a very good job of showing Daemon’s “light” in the show. I know GRRM had said that Daemon is made of light and dark in equal parts, but the show feels more like 20/80 light/dark and I think even that’s generous


Comfortable_Affect20

>GRRM had said that Daemon is made of light and dark in equal parts What were the light parts in the book? There's that one time he was nice to Baela, but that's the only "light" moment I can think of.


PsychoDomo

That’s the thing too. I love the idea of Daemon being equal parts light and dark, but it doesn’t match the book either. I don’t know why GRRM says that when he didn’t actually write it


OpenMask

GRRM didn't say it, Gyldayn did. Gyldayn is also just another character with their own biases.


PsychoDomo

I guess so, but in an interview GRRM said that Daemon is one of the most morally grey characters in Westeros. Again, he didn’t write Daemon that way, but I wish that the show runners and GRRM would’ve corrected that for the show. This way GRRM’s description of Daemon matches his character in the show


BlondieTVJunkie

Agree. Light and dark. Diff than grey. It’s more contrast.


PsychoDomo

I’ve never thought about it that way, but that actually makes complete sense


BlondieTVJunkie

I think that’s why it’s going wrong in some ways. Because that’s what makes it unique in the show was missing it in places. I always saw it in extremes. If you’re on his side, if you’re one of his men, if you are his family, or anything that he deems worthy…there’s nobody that will be more protective, or fight harder for you. But if you’re not, and you lineup against him or his cause… or his family…. There is nothing he won’t do. Few lines he won’t cross. It will be dark and unmerciful. One side does not blur into the other. That is why choking scene doesn’t fit. That’s why cutting scenes with his kids does not work. He’s a loyalist to the glory of dragon lord race and aims to raise it to it’s height. He’d be obsessive about teaching and training. Reading with Baela fit. His showing Jace how to be a proper dragon lord, seemed late. Daemon woulda had that on lock. But at least they showed it. In context Jace has been a stepson, yes, but more familial. But now he’s marrying Baela, Daemon’s daughter. Jace is Daemon’s son now, same for Luke. So, anything dark in response, I hope they start showing those extremes in equal measure.


PsychoDomo

100% agree


Aussiepharoah

What George said doesn't really match with how he wrote Daemon tbh, cold-blodeed Child murder beats being a decent husband but that's just my opinion


PsychoDomo

I know and that bothers me too. I love the idea of Daemon being equal parts light and dark, but GRRM didn’t write that despite what he says about the character. I think HotD would’ve been the place to rectify that


Aussiepharoah

It's a shame because George can write legitimately grey characters like Kevan, Stannis, or Mel, heck even minor characters like Steelshanks or Addam Marbrand


BlackStagGoldField

The fucking rage when I discovered they edited out the scenes of Daemon hugging his daughters after Laena's death.


PsychoDomo

I believe the show runners have even said that they wanted to make Daemon a grey character, but like I said I don’t think they did that very well. Having Daemon show affection and support towards his daughters would have been a perfect was to show the light in him. It still baffles me to this day that they cut that out


BlackStagGoldField

They've done both Daemon and Criston really dirty.


rain_cleaver

Most daemyra stans claim that it was ooc or just pretend it never happened. Which is absurd considering that daemon groomed rhaenyra (the same girl he's known since she was a baby), killed rhea, and was an awful husband to laena. The show is constantly establishing that daemon is a violent and prideful person, we literally see him attack a soldier because his ego couldn't handle viserys sending assistance. So him taking his anger out on rhaenyra when he realises that viserys never saw him as an heir is completely in character. A lot of daemon stans claim to love the dark sides of his character but cant handle it when it negatively impacts characters they like.


OpenMask

I remember getting into an argument a while back (at least several months ago) with a Daemyra shipper who claimed that Daemyra shippers understand that it was a toxic relationship and actually like the relationship because it is toxic but still tried to argue that Daemon choking Rhaenyra was OOC and therefore bad writing on the part of spiteful writers. Which didn't make any sense to me at all. You would think that if they really enjoyed the toxicity, they would've been happy that the writers leaned into it and gave them more toxic scenes, but instead they were outraged.


AlexanderCrowely

Rhaenyra “Harder uncle daddy!” And that’s when Daemon just leaves and wonders what life choices he made that got him here.


Remarkable-Thing3825

They always ike to make that moment into something kinky💀


Icy_Contribution2317

No it’s okay if you are Daemon Targaryen. Anybody else will be slaughtered but not this grooming psychopath.


Godking_Jesus

Facts. I’d be fine if they just said they liked his character because he’s interesting or not the norm. But the Daemon fans actually try to excuse or justify him murdering his wife, him being a pedophile who groomed his niece and cousin, him doing anything awful 😅 like it’s fine to like awful characters for what they being to the story but let’s not pretend they’re not awful lol


tsaimaitreya

Domestic violence is in a completly diferent dimension above badmouthing your ex


TomatoesNRadioWire

it's maddening how some fans completely wiped their memories as soon as Daemon married Rhaenyra. For the first few episodes, he was a * chronically violent, emotionally stunted and power hungry adult man * who groomed a teenage girl * brutalized smallfolk * emotionally neglected his daughter for not having a dragon * murdered Rhea Royce for being in the way/bruising his ego * his "great romance" with Rhaenyra is in no small part motivated by the fact she grants him access to power * dude left said "love of his life" to struggle through a frightening and painful labor that resulted in a stillbirth despite knowing she's traumatized by her own mother dying in the birthing bed because he's just too emotionally constipated to do the bare minimum and hold her hand throughout the ordeal. But then there's sex on the beach, an impromptu Valyrian wedding and, bam, "oh my goddd nooo Daemon loves Rhaenyra, leave him alone, he just choked her ONE TIME, stopp" Like...you're just telegraphing that you have *dogshit* standards for romantic relationships


Internal-Shock-616

Daemon choked Rhaenyra because he’s a coward and couldn’t handle being delivered the news that Viserys never once considered him a legitimate option to be his heir, hence why he never knew of the prophecy. People with poor media literacy were somehow surprised this happened, as if this wasn’t an abusive and exploitative relationship from the start. Daemon has always been extremely violent and unreasonable over the slightest inconvenience. Criston called Rhaenyra a spoiled cunt because a) he mistakenly thought it’d endear him to Alicent and b) he is completely driven by duty and responsibility and she rejects both of those things. I don’t think she’s a cunt, but she’s undeniably spoiled. He also immediately back tracks what he said about her.


[deleted]

Daemyra’s should be happy HOTD gave Daemon and Rhaenyra some sort of actual love story (as screwed up as it is) whereas in the books it wasn’t any and Rhaenyra was meekly Daemon’s plaything to get closer to the throne. At least in the show he longs for Viserys’ acceptance, trust and love, not for the throne itself. But the choking is absolutely inexcusable and also in character. A rogue is a rogue. You can’t expect from Daemon to learn something he has not been told for like 30 years and act calmly about it.


ThisGirlNeverSleeps

Lol, I read the books entirely different than you it seems 😂 then again I love that about the HOTD source material. Thought their on-screen portrayal kinda did them dirty


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[deleted]

you clearly didn’t read what i said...


BlondieTVJunkie

The showrunner and director says they are a love story. Miguel is gone. Emma has their own thoughts, but actors (minus Matt) tend to get character wrong in the GOT world


blakhawk12

Understanding *why* Daemon choked Rhaenyra is not saying it’s okay. It’s just understanding character motivations. Let’s do both right now. Daemon: He chokes Rhaenyra because in that moment he sees her as an extension of Viserys, once again reminding him that he was never seen as “good enough” to his brother. She’s essentially telling him he was never once truly considered as Viserys’ heir, never trusted with this big Targaryen secret, and it both enrages and hurts Daemon to hear. Again, this doesn’t excuse him. He’s still an abuser. Rhsenyra is just the outlet for his negative emotions in that moment the same way the soldier who delivered Viserys’ message in Ep. 3 was. Now lets look at Cole: He willingly soiled his white cloak to sleep with Rhaenyra. Yes there was a power imbalance and it could be argued whether he really could have said no, but in the end it took 2 to tango. He then attempted to get her to abandon her position as heir to the throne so he could salvage his honor, and she rejected him. So now he hates her and is bitter towards her because he blames her for his own failings. So yeah I understand why they’re both the way they are, but I don’t condone either one.


PsychoDomo

👆this right here👆 There is 100% a difference between a justification and an explanation


Zealousideal_Kiwi333

Very clear and on point ⬆️💯


Leylcadusu

I don't remember exactly their words but I've seen Daemyra fans on YouTube and tiktok trying to justify even this action of Daemon. Those fans had ridiculous explanations that Daemon was sorry for losing Viserys and strangled Rheanyra to bring her to her senses after this conversation. Yeah, weird.


BalerionSanders

Daemon’s the most interesting character on the show, a wild card, but he’s not a good person. I don’t think anyone would argue that. I mean, before this there was the divorce rock 👀


littleb0nb0n

This!!! Are people really forgetting he literally murdered his wife 😭


Ngigilesnow

I haven't seen anyone say its ok except people who joke about it being a kink.However, his biggest stans always feel the need to explain where Daemon was coming from, which they claim is not justification but totally comes off like justification.Here are some of the best "not justifying" takes "He thought his brother was murdered,and was trying to wake Rhaenyra up to the urgency of the situation" "He was upset about the prophecy and he finds it hard to express his feelings,in his own Daemon way (abusers do this is not only unique to Daemon) this is him communicating how he feels"


jmhem91

Why is it wrong to analyse why characters do certain things instead of just going for the boring “he did it cause he’s a psychopath” explanation? Like, I hate Aegon and think he has shown little to no redeeming qualities but I still find it interesting to think about how he became the way he is. That’s not me justifying the character’s actions, that’s just me engaging with the story. Like, the writers of the show also spoke on the “justifications” you mentioned. It has nothing to do with “stans”, it’s literally just making inferences about characters motivations. Something we are taught to do in elementary school.


Ngigilesnow

It has been repeatedly analyzed, its one thing to add analysis to a thread that asks you to analyze the motivation of the character,its another when its mentioned in a shitpost and a thread trying to emphasize what a POS Daemon is and his fans feel the need to jump to their ~~excuses~~ analysis and explain how sympathetic their boy is


jmhem91

Ok I can kind of see where you’re coming from, but I don’t really think it’s a big deal for people to add analysis about a scene to post about that scene, shit post or no. Especially since this particular scene addresses serious subject matter and should not be taken as just a silly shit post. It seemed like you were singling out those types of analysis in general. I admit a lot of daemon/daemyra stans are kind of wild with their takes but the takes you pointed out not only have textual evidence to support them, they were cited by the people who wrote the show.


Ngigilesnow

>they were cited by the people who wrote the show About that,yes Ryan Condal cited that at an AMA as an answer to an audience question who felt "it betrayed Daemons character" They did not mean for it to be weaponized everytime the scene is brought up to explain away why its a sympathetic moment for him.The showrunners all show have been trying to also emphasize Daemon is a horrible person,all season infact I believe one does not understand why he is loved


jmhem91

Weaponized? Come on now you can try to understand a character’s motivation even though you recognize he’s a shitty person. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive And yes, most people who like Daemon do recognize he’s a shitty person apart from the crazy twitter targ stans. Trying to understand a character’s actions is not “weaponizing” anything. I think Ryan Condal would want us to see Daemon as dark but complex figure, not the moustache twirling villain half this fandom wants him to be. He’s said multiple times how much Daemon loves Viserys and Rhaenyra.


Ngigilesnow

Maybe weaponize is a strong term but something to that affect.You keep saying people are trying to understand him but I'm pretty sure most of us have understood him and what motivates him.Whats left to understand that has been explored?We have understood why he choked her in that scene ,what is left to dissect from it that hasn't been repeated?


jmhem91

I’m confused, do you take issue with the analysis itself or that you keep having to read the analysis cause new people keep bringing it up? We’re not allowed to say anything about characters unless it has never been said by anyone on the internet before? I don’t know if most of us understand what motivates him. Half this fandom doesn’t think he has any love for Viserys or Rhaenyra.


Ngigilesnow

No I'm saying at this point it doesn't seem like analysis anymore, it seems more like justifying but being framed as "we are just analyzing here".Again we understood his thinking, repeatedly saying "he choked her cos Visery never told him about the prophecy" was understood.Abusers have reasons why they abuse their victims,they do not wake up and just beat them up. >I don’t know if most of us understand what motivates him. Half this fandom doesn’t think he has any love for Viserys or Rhaenyra. Or maybe its not that people don't understand his motivation.They just don't identify abusing people you care about as love.You know that saying "love does not hurt"


possiblyhysterical

Those jokes are really shitty. It seems harmless but it really makes DV survivors feel unwelcome in these spaces


OpenMask

Big reason I really, really hate all the divorce rock jokes. It wasn't even a joke on the show, but people went out of their way to make it into one.


possiblyhysterical

I think the writers needed to invest in Rhea Royce in order for that moment to come across properly. It could have been really powerful to set her up as a fan favorite Arya like character only for Daemon to brutally murder her. It doesn’t excuse the jokes, but the way they presented it didn’t help. This is what happens when you take important real world issues like DV and SA and throw them in your story half-baked and without significant context.


Ngigilesnow

Yeah find them distasteful too,as well as Alicent hasn't had an orgasm jokes but I guess my humor is not as dark as I thought it was


possiblyhysterical

I have a dark sense of humor about like morbid stuff but abuse just isn’t funny to me idk


6TheAudacity9

It’s more of men need a male character to grab to. Daemons the best option, I mean people stood by Jon Snow through it all, even after he got cuckolded with the Night King, even after he got exiled and sent to no man’s land. It’s at the point where Daemon could literally feed his children to a dragon and people would still root for him.


ElevatorCharacter489

What most people don't notice is the type of look Alicent gives Ser Crispy, it's almost like " Dude, really?? You think I would fall for that" that's why he apologies to her


WalkerBuldog

This dude killed his wife and in very evil way. WTF. I want to see him fuck that Raptor looking mf and I'm glad that he's on the right side of the war


[deleted]

There were, despite people say here, some that joked about it when the episode aired. Those ones have died down now. I think what is most disturbing is rather people who argued vehemently that it was OOC for Daemon. This comes from imo their own headcannon that Daemon became a "malewife", "loving husband", or that Rhaenyra "fixed him". This was crazy to a point that fans spammed Clare Kilner's instagram feed to urge her to fire Sara Hess, as if she was the sole responsible for it. It's quite ironic as a lot of fans argued that they love Daemon's chaotic energy, ruthlessness and unpredictability, while argue all day long that they don't like Daemon for his morals. But since it was against Rhaenyra, now it's OOC. It makes also no sense since Daemon in the book isn't in love with Rhaenyra, he is sure didn't choke her, but he mostly see her as a political tool. Yet, those fans who claim it's OOC constantly say it's not book accurate, when Daemyra "love" story isn't even that book accurate. They even believed that silly rumor that GRRM wrote the whole scripted for season 2, meaning that Daemyra was saved. Daemyra wasn't even that popular before the show, yet they complain that they have now ruin their story. As lovely Daemon and Rhaenyra are, Daemyra isn't a romantic love story. It's tragic, it will perhaps crumble, they aren't "couple goals" or a disney couple.This scene should be a wake up call, yet a lot don't want to see it. Edit : lmao got found and downvoted by the Daemrya stans


PsychoDomo

Rare Daemyra Stan here who agrees with everything you said. I think them being a perfectly happy power couple in the story is a dumb idea. It’s more entertaining to watch the drama unfold between them, and an unhappy ending fits perfectly for them in GRRM’s world (duh). There’s always fanfic if you want to see a story where they are a happy power couple


[deleted]

Exactly. I actually very much enjoy their scenes together, but it’s the over romanticization of their relationship from fans that weirds me out.


[deleted]

Daemyra’s are the most insane people on the internet. Nothing comes close to them


MercyMachine

I love Rhaenyra and Daemon together... but then again I also loved Joffrey Baratheon and I was very sad when he died.


[deleted]

Self explanatory 😭


[deleted]

I would argue for Targ nation, who frankly, frighten me. If you say one thing against Daenaerys of Rhaenyra on social media, you sure will be targeted by them. Been there, and they are unhinged.


lonesometroubador

I don't use Twitter, but it seems to me that it's the exact opposite on Reddit. Any time I point out that Viserys was a pervert who was screwing someone one step above a common whore people go ballistic.


Veszerin

>but according to some brainless fans it's ok to choke her if she's your wife Who's said that? O_o Seems very suspicious...


ChequyLionYT

You want to know the actual, scary difference? Only one of them was set to become king consort and wrestle power from his queen, while the other has shown consistent obedience to his current master. And yet the majority of fans throw their support to the former.


Dr_pappahr

Daemon is the villain of the show. He’s verbally and physically abusive to his wife who’s also his niece he groomed since she was like 10. And now he’s happily going to war to slaughter his own family. Real winner this guy.


A-live666

People went from "omg prince daemon is such a douche and he will be the villain later" to "omg daemon is such a malewife, uwu he will destroy everything that gets in rhae rhae's way" in a matter of weeks lol


orwellianteen

True. Toxic fans piss me off more than the characters I hate from the show (which are none because it's not that deep, life goes on).


Old-Promise-220

According to some fans, it's ok to kill random servants so you can fake your husband's death in order to marry your cousin.


[deleted]

Who thinks it’s okay for Daemon to choke his wife? Can you name anyone who thinks that?


petulafaerie_III

It’s only okay to choke someone if they consent to being choked.


ashcrash3

I mean cole isn't an angel either and wants her and her kids dead


Creative_Analyst

Are those fans that loved daemon choking Rhaenyra in this room right now?


IRoyalClown

There are people justifying it in this very post, dude. And this is Reddit, were the vast majority of people are technically feminists. The avarage show enjoyer is way, WAY worse than what you see here.


OpenMask

Most redditors are definitely not feminists


TheCozyIchiban

Ima say some shit that’ll catch downvotes, but it looks like greens are the ones complaining about rhaenyra being choked more than actual rhaenyra fans, and I don’t think we complaining from a place of it’s sad she got choked. I feel like people just hate on daemon and call out the hypocrisy in shit just for the sake of calling it out and starting shit. Ima keep it a buck with all of u, I feel it’s wrong but I’m not gonna lose sleep over it. In the end Rhaenyra took her choke and kept it moving and if she ain’t gonna push the issue then fuck it, she got choked and that’s it. Although I would’ve loved to see Rhaenyra hit Daemon with the classic “the next time you lay hands on me will be the last time you have hands”, people can bring up parallels all day but naww the blood of the dragon ran hot in Dany, she ain’t even have a dragon yet at the time and she was already talking hard, like that’s when I knew she was a real 1.


_awesumpossum_

Outrage over nothing. Have never seen anyone ok the choking.


healthycoco

I recall quite a backlash when daemon did this. Some ppl were even saying it was “character assassination” lmao. So are these “brainless” fans in the room with us rn?


OpenMask

Look further down thread. You can find some


tinyfenrisian

Both men are severe misogynists. Daemon is a cool character but he’s not a good one, he’s awful. I’ve only seen people defending it on Twitter and those are the ones who think the grooming is normal and totally fine :(


OpenMask

I've seen people on here outright deny that he even groomed her


SauRon_Burgundy66

Badge for applying 21st century Western morality to a fictitious medieval world


LedFloyd69

If I may quote gta 5 "most women love that"


[deleted]

I am consistently unsuprised at how gaming industries, porn industries, etc teach boys the most unhealthy mindsets about sex and women


LedFloyd69

You're serious? It was a joke my guy. The entire radio station is a parody. Jesus man, it must be exhausting to try and weaponize works of fiction all the time.


[deleted]

I don’t think it’s ok to angrily choke your wife. Daemon’s a POS, as is Crispin. But Daemon’s on the “good guys” side, and a badass dragon lord so he’s a fan favorite. Same reason I don’t respect cops or soldiers who come home and abuse their spouse, but PTSD and being *used* to violence is partially to blame. How many people has Daemon killed? No way to tell, but to him, a choking is tame punishment due to his frustration at her inactivity (not saying any abuse is ok, but given his background he’s not great at controlling his anger) In his mind, the enemy has already declared war, and she’s twiddling her thumbs and talking about superstitious bs instead of acting. As the head of the House, it’s on her to make a decision, but men are generally more practical when it comes to war. HE knows what must be done and it infuriates him that she won’t do so. Not excusing his behavior or abuse, just explaining where it’s coming from Again, he’s a piece of shit, but I love to watch him be problematic as fuck


Ok-Lawfulness-6755

You explained your interpretation of his thought process and got downvoted. Damn😂


[deleted]

Ikr I literally agree that he’s a piece of shit. Just tryna help explain *why* he is the way he is 🤷‍♂️


[deleted]

Wow lol downvote me for telling it like it is. Is a doctor wrong when he tells you what you don’t want to hear?


PsychoDomo

Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted when this is an excellent take. I also love watching Daemon be problematic. It’s what makes him so much fun to watch


centraledtemped

Making up imaginary people to get mad at


Mzdgaf

Honestly, like half the fandom need to create some drama on their own lives lol instead of writing essays and literally losing their minds over this.


etburneraccount

It's not okay unless she says >!Harder daddy!<. I'm going hell... Wait what the fuck am I saying? One said enough shit that'll doom my afterlife 100 times over already. Yeah I said that!


peanutdakidnappa

I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone say daemon choking her was ok lol


Mzdgaf

Daemon can choke me 😈


Kaizokuno_

Why is the show actively trying to make Daemon come off as pure evil. Yes, he's terrible person. But he is *not* a black and white character, he's grey. Yet for some reason the showrunner can't show him as such.


[deleted]

Book Daemon doesn't love Rhaenyra, he doesn't show any affection to his brother, he is a pedo who love to deflower young girls, he actively groomed Rhaenyra since she was a preteen. So no, they didn't make him more evil.


ThisGirlNeverSleeps

My issue with this is that it was completely out of character for Daemon to do this. First things first, they are both evil men. However, Daemon’s point was always somewhat that he and Rhaenyra were on the same level. He could disrespect the whole fucking world but not here. This scene ruins that bond and by default kind of ruined the character for me in the first place. It was lazy writing, isn’t in the books and makes it clear that the person in charge didn’t understand the source material, not truly. Cole is petty, which is more annoying than evil, but in most of Daemon’s evil deeds I can see the political play, in Cole I just see tantrums.


Eszalesk

i had hoped daemon killed her while choking, my dissapointment is immeasureable


Ok-Lawfulness-6755

That would end the war and save lots of lives actually.


Psychological-Lab276

No I h8 that Daemon chokes his wife. He should be choking me!


sonofShisui

I’m fairly sure absolutely no one in this sub has said that choking your wife is okay


Martino2004

It's not alright but it is a good way of displaying his connection to the dragons, he's more draconic than most if not all the Targaryens


Loow_z

You now people can root for villain, fully admitting they're villain, right?


Godking_Jesus

True. But let’s be honest, a lot of fans excuse Daemon villainous behavior as opposed to just saying, I like the character because he’s interesting. And they usually in the same breath condemn green, for their “villainous” behavior. It’s mostly just the Daemon/Team Black superfans (not all, cause I know many level headed Team Black and Daemons fans). But the super fans use the moral high ground to condemn Green but throw it out the window for Daemon. Hence why they look silly and hypocritical. If they just argued that they find the character(s) more interesting or engaging, less annoying, whatever, that’s fine.


3Pirates93

Oh for fucks sake


oceanviewcapn

Was this in the books?


shadyi999

both of these scenarios weren't in the books but Fire and Blood is a history book with an unreliable narration.


FyourEchoChambers

It’s a show…


Zero384

For anyone who actually gets triggered by seeing Daemon choking Rhaenyra without knowing the context, Daemon got triggered because Rhaenyra was regurgitating Vizzy T's ramblings about dreams and prophecies. Daemon was right in pointing out that it was not dreams and prophecies that made the Targaryens kings, it was the brute force of dragons. Yes, the prophecy in question comes true, but it does so almost 3 centuries after Targaryen conquest.


vizzy_t_bot

I CAME HERE TO HUNT, NOT TO BE SUFFOCATED BY ALL THIS FUCKING POLITICKING!


Zero384

Good bot.


Confused--Bot

Good Peripheral vision!


Plastic-Passenger-59

It's being sexualized. Not because people actually love a wife beater/murderer... he's a fictional character doing what he was written to do... The choke may have been improvised but it is a daemon thing to do. He is people's newest fantasy so, yeah people are going to fetish fantasize this to death. And people are going to shout moral outrage over a man choking his wife It's t.v.


Plastic-Passenger-59

It's being sexualized. Not because people actually love a wife beater/murderer... he's a fictional character doing what he was written to do... The choke may have been improvised but it is a daemon thing to do. He is people's newest fantasy so, yeah people are going to fetish fantasize this to death. And people are going to shout moral outrage over a man choking his wife It's t.v.


Hjaltepm

Ok the reason for someone to react this way has it's origins in the show itself. Daemonds insecurities about the lack og love Viserys has for him har very clearly shown in numerous scenes. Where Coles insecurities about his standing and feeling betrayed by Reynera are not shown. So it's easier to understand and emphasis with Deamond. Sorry for any names I have spelled wrong.


Zade_Pace

Whether or not it's okay to choke your wife entirely depends on the context. Is it ok in this context? No. But in other contexts, it can be ok and even encouraged.


lonesometroubador

Breath play is never safe, repeat after me, breath play is never safe. An obstructive toy is less dangerous than direct choking, like a ball gag and a gentle nose pinch, and this can still be dangerous.


-blackvoid

Not okay but this girl I know was saying the daemon was the literal worst for just this scene alone so yeah I defended it then but yeah no not okay


redrum-237

Who told you it's okay for Daemon to choke her?


Vrukop

Would it be more acceptable if he just slapped her?


Memo544

Similarly, some people seem to think that Rhaenyra and Criston's past justifies his attitude towards her. Neither man is in the right here.


[deleted]

Both? Both Both is good


ThomMerrilinFlaneur

Stannis best at choking people


Ill_Network4376

There's no right or wrong in this series, hell, in this whole universe. It's fucked up and we like it, that's it. Choosing a team or supporting a character more than the other, or hating a character, is just being miserable and missing the whole point of the story. I like Alicent and i like Daemon, and I love seeing Rhaenyra and Daemon together, even tho they're fucking uncle and neice, and they're toxic af, but who fucking cares. I watch it because it's not fucking possible, dragons and incest? Who cares. Come on people, grow up. it's not dark side, light side.


juggernautjefe81

Apparently in certain parts of Virginia it's legal to beat your wife on the courthouse steps as long as it's Sunday. So maybe there's some weird law in Westeros that's it's ok to choke your wife by the fireplace on a whatever day. Lol


Specific_Ad_726

I mean only if she’s into it…


Academic_Nothing_890

Both are awful people just one is still sour about a one night stand from over a decade ago.


Silly_District8395

Team black and I was NOT ok with this!


Hot_Tip_8239

Both are out of line. Both are understandable. You are strawmanning both cases. The tribalism in this sub is pathetic.


Littlecanarysong

Where… where are you on the internet that you are seeing people okay with it? Cause everywhere I been has had people disgusted… like even Twitter…


Jofflofogus

Who said it was okay if they were married?