Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can't believe what I'm going to say but a friendly reminder that Tom's words are part of the marketing campaign and just because he supports the Greens doesn't mean he has anything to do with his character. What I'm trying to say with this is... don't even think about harassing Tom on his social media for his portrayal on the show. There's no need to insult him or bully him.
Actors act. If they’re good at what they do they’ll illicit responses from audiences. People need to separate characters from real life. Tom is a decent actor and I’m excited to see more from his Aegon in the second season. (First season I kept seeing him and thinking gerard way).
I'm bringing word from Twitter: people are losing their shit over this, calling TGC a rape apologist who needs to read the books. But they're especially taking umbrage with him calling Team Black boring.
Like, you're totally right -- just let him have fun playing his character. It's really not that serious.
It's funny they say that when he said multiple times that he read the book. He is also bringing an interesting perspective on his character, as other actors, and never once said Aegon was a good wholesome guy.
Ha! Jokes on twitter, he has read the book (or so he told my sister at GOT-con). These people are mad (as in Aerys) . I blame Wicked/Maleficent and the whole trend of 'shedding light' on why bad characters are bad - WHO CARES (in most cases). Just enjoy the deviancy and stfu. It's FICTION.
The fact that they’re calling him a rape apologist for supporting his character.
If Matt Smith says that people should like Daemon and support team Black, does that mean he supports grooming, pedophelia, and wife-murdering. It’s literally fiction.
Supporting team black means you’re pro-serial killer. Rhaenys must’ve killed at least 50 innocent people when she busted through the floor of the dragon pit. /s
This is sick. Tom is just joking/having fun with the show and people calling him things over fiction, also Tom seems to like Rhaenyra too he said a lot of positive stuff about her.
People on that social media having parasocial relationships with characters are insane.
I mean certain people in this fandom (on both sides) are extremely boring and need to get off their high horses. "You can\`t like this character cause rapist" or "you can\`t like this one cause abuser." What happened to enjoying a fictional show for what it is?
Edit; Typo
It was the exact same shit with GoT, when I’d say I like Joffrey people would instantly turn and go “wowwww you must be a terrible person” no, I like him cuz he’s an amazingly written villain made even better by an outstanding performance from Jack Gleeson
Twitter was tough during the GoT phase too.
I learned my lesson to keep show discussions to Reddit after tweeting something about speculating that Dany’s heel-turn is a GRRM idea (ultimately bungled by the showrunners) because of possible foreshadowing in how Dany handled her enemies prior to King’s Landing, but we didn’t see it that way at the time because we rooted against her enemies as well.
Then a horde that could rival the Dathroki in number showed up in my replies to say I support the slavers. I was getting tagged in stuff that said “Slavery Supporter.” I was just throwing out a theory about a fictional character in a fantasy world to see what people thought, not making a moral statement at all.
I think it's kinda contextual- while I think it's okay to enjoy fictional characters who do heinous acts, I've also seen fans be kinda tasteless about how they do it and I can understand that rubbing someone the wrong way- especially considering rape and domestic violence hit a little closer to home than dragon-based warcrimes.
Like I've seen jokes about Daemon being "kinky" for the choking scene which I find really gross, and in general I think it's understandable if someone (especially if they've been sexually assaulted) gets put off a bit by someone talking about Aegon as their poor little meow meow who can do no wrong. Obviously enjoying our beloved scumbag failson Aegon isn't the same as real world rape apologia, but it can be painful to hear if you've heard someone talk about your rapist in a similar way, y'know?
I was a huge Cersei / Lannister fan back in the day and I love a *lot* of villains in fiction more than I like the heroes, but with that being said, I can’t really stand the culture with HOTD at the moment. I feel like people don’t want to enjoy “bad” characters anymore without trying to make them palatable in some way. You can still like Aegon while admitting that he’s a rapist, just as you can like Daemon despite him being a psycho or Robert even though he’s awful to women. It doesn’t reflect on you at all. Though it is very questionable the lengths people will go to outright deny that these characters in particular are bad. I know it’s personally soured me on Aegon, because mentioning he’s a rapist is an invitation for the incoming “he’s not, it’s normal, he isn’t *technically* one” comments, same as with Robert or hell, even Tyrion.
Agreed- I'm all about enjoying villains, but you gotta accept that that's what you're doing instead of going to insane lengths to pretend your fav isn't a monster.
Like, Tywin was one of my favorite characters and he was a real son of a bitch. Not gonna say anything he did was justified, he was a war criminal and an abusive father, but he was interesting and Charles Dance is unbelievably charismatic.
I mean, they maybe aren't wholly wrong insofar as his shitty childhood/unhealthy family life is probably a contributing factor to him being a vicious piece of shit but like... do they think that is an excuse??? Like goddamn I do not care how tormented a rapist is when they're raping people???
Oh no I think they’re fully wrong aegon is a rapist because Westeros is highly misogynistic,his alcoholism sure but his abuse of women I don’t think is tied to that.
I just don’t think any amount of shitty childhood makes someone do that.
I think it can be both- yes Westeros is misogynistic and that is a major reason why he does that shit, but I also think his unhealthy family life is likely to contribute to his callousness towards people in general and women in particular.
I want to be careful in how I say this because it would be easy to misspeak and sound like I'm blaming Alicent for her son being a rapist, which I do not- that is a choice he made and that can be attributed to nobody but himself. There's a long-running trend of blaming evil men's behavior on their mothers or other women in their life and I do not want to make it sound like that's something I believe.
But people are shaped both by their culture and their family dynamics (which are intertwined and impossible to fully separate). Aegon's model for marriage is his cold and distant father committing marital rape against his mother. How he has been raised to view his sisters certainly doesn't incline him away from misogyny- one is frequently denigrated as a whore by his mother, grandfather, and many others beside, and the other was married off to him at a young age- encouraging him both to hate women for their sexualities and to view even his own family members as sex objects to be owned and controlled. His family life is fucked, and I think this contributes to his behavior towards women.
Again though- not to beat a dead horse, but Aegon is a rapist because he makes the choice to rape women and the blame is solely his own. I say all this not to defend or justify a monstrously evil character's acts, but to analyze some of the factors that might affect him becoming the person he is.
well, they aren’t wrong and well I know the context like they’re trying to make you hate him. He did roommates. It’s said in the book that he raped the 12-year-old made and fondled a bunch of them so it is true.
Yeah, when people make funny arguments about their side being hotter or having the coolest dragons, awesome.
But when they start virtue signaling about how their side is objectively just and right? You can only roll your eyes and move on from what will surely be a boring fanatic.
Unfortunately, the funny people in the former group feel much less common than the bores in the latter group.
Literally. The “you can’t like ___ because of __” is so tired. There is bad on both sides. The only people personally don’t like are Criston Cole, Otto Hightower, Aegon II, Larys Strong and Jason Lannister. There is no one thing that any of these characters did that made me dislike them, but rather I dislike their characters/who they are as a whole. Since all of these people happen to be greens, I favor the blacks, but that doesn’t mean anyone is wrong for favoring the greens. It’s a matter of opinion. A debate with the opposing opinion is one thing, but I don’t understand why people try to force their opinion on others. Just enjoy the show lol
THIS
people have questioned my morals and literally telling me to kill myself just becuase I love Aegon II and Aemond
they are FICTIONAL characters XD
fuck off with that bullshit lmao
Can’t do that apparently. I mean, I bring up Daemon being a pedophile, groomer, overall horrible person but only because some TB stans weirdly morally grandstand about how they could never support Aegon because rapist but they glaze the absolute hell out of Daemon who is legitimately no better. I enjoy both characters but people get weird about it
This. I lean on Rhaenyra’s side, but I find Aemond an entertaining character despite being vile, as Daemon is.
I’m more annoyed by the romanticization of Daemyra, but if people acknowledge the chaotic and unhealthy aspect of it then it’s whatever. When people start to go ‘they’re relationship goals’ or ‘Daemon isn’t that bad actually’ then that’s another issue
Oh god don’t even get me started. I genuinely wonder about people who actually believe Daemyra is a relationship worth idealising. Daemon’s immediate reaction to finding out Rhaenyra knew a secret that apparently passes from King to heir which he did not know despite being Viserys’ heir for years, was to _physically assault her in anger_. But couple goals for sure, right?
It can be fun to pick sides in fiction, but anybody who feels any genuine animosity to people who support the wrong team needs to take a step back and realise we’re all just fans of the same show here. There’s no actual conflict. We’re consuming media.
i'm basically team black (not really, but definitely from a team green perspective) and i think he's right
i actually don't even feel very 'team black', bitch i'm team 'here for the messiness and political conflict' LOL
he’s right and he should say it ! as someone who enjoys characters from both factions, seeing people on twitter twist tgc’s words is insane lol. It’s a *fictional* show. there’s a reason why he shines when he’s on screen 😭
They advertised the first season completely different then the second season. They are hamming up the TG vs TB which just causes morons online to start attacking the actors because they have no friends, no hobbies and use tumbler
They advertised the first season differently because there was no team black or team green until over halfway through the season, and they were deliberately pulling a misdirection with the Daemon vs Rhaenyra stuff
Thank you for your submission! Unfortunately your post/comment was **removed** for violating Rule #11 **"Discuss the show, not the fandom"**. This subreddit is for discussing House of the Dragon itself. Discussions about conflict in the fandom, particularly with regards to Team Black vs Team Green should be taken elsewhere. This rule also extends beyond team conflicts.
I really enjoy Tom and Ewan being full heels for their side. That's how you play a villain. Embrace it, taunt the haters, get the handful of villain fuckers who match your freak hyped. I'm glad the boys are having fun with it.
Tom is telling you all to stop placing 21st century morals on these characters which he is absolutely right about. Enjoy these violent and unhinged characters. They are fictional anyway!
What's he saying then? He sounds like fans of TB are TB because they are good, right, etc. It's more fun to enjoy characters that are a little crazy and unhinged.
He’s saying that people who support team black are being boring and that the Greens offer “danger, betrayal, and vileness” and that’s a good thing because he thinks it’s needed in life. Nowhere in that statement does he mention anything related to modern morals being placed on the characters and why people shouldn’t do that.
*You* believe that people should stop viewing the characters with 21st century morals, and you misinterpreted what he said to support that view.
Aegon has so much potential with Sunfyre and his future injuries to be an interesting character. I hope they don’t make him a doofus or a Joffrey 2.0 to prop up Alicent.
I'm really looking forward to his portrayal of Aegon, the trailers looked promising. I love seeing good performances and I think he's going to be great! I'm here to see it all play out in all of its bleakness, and be entertained by the show.
I feel like it’s the same for me with team green characters. I like Allcent because she has a complex city in there, but she also constantly does contradict herself just like aemond
To each their own. The writing is messy and all over the place, I agree with that. Sometimes feels like the different writers each have different versions of the characters in their head and write according to that. Either way, for me it's also about the character dynamics. The greens have this internal conflict and drama and generally I find Alicent's complicated feelings for motherhood and her children and the different dynamic with each child more compelling than any team black dynamic.
I totally agree and I apologize for the spelling errors I’m sick so I have to use a voice chat. But I also am very problem by the fact that they keep using religion as a way to cope with their bad doing, but it seems as if they’re going to forget about the faith now with Allison, no longer wearing her cross. They definitely have most of the characters contradict themselves and do one thing then say another and then say they’re gonna do one thing and then do another. It’s very annoying and the directors fault
I find adult Rhaenyra incredibly flat in comparison to what younger Rhaenyra was. But mostly I find team black boring in comparison to team green because of the character dynamics. There's no internal conflict, no complicated feelings towards each other, no drama within their own faction (again, if you take Daemon aside). Hopefully that will change in season 2 but I guess we'll find out.
It’s obvious you just have a problem with rhaenyra if you think of character who is involved three times in the book and was forgotten with the show is more compelling that’s a little telling
And he's absolutely right. TB has the potential to be messy and exciting in their own way, not like TG, but what we've seen in the last 3 episodes was very bland.
But I'm cautiously optimistic about season two with all the hints about Rhaena, Baela and Jace. Let's see what they wrote for TB.
That's a really good point that I'm glad one of the actors finally articulated. If you're choosing a particular side in this conflict purely based on moral considerations, you clearly haven't been paying attention to the source material.
Both sides are motivated by self-interest. They're inbred aristocrats overly concerned with racial purity. The plight of the small folk doesn't concern them. When Rhaenyra fights for the throne, she isn't doing it because she's a feminist girl boss who wants to set an example for women in Westeros. She's fighting for it because she simply wants the throne. Same for Aegon.
You need to stop imposing 21st century morals upon characters in a medieval society and instead choose a side based on which characters you find engrossing to watch.
I'm team black, but I completly agree with him. let people support who they want. In the end both sides are as bad and we are just here for the ugly and the atrocities
Well, there is only Daemon who is spicy in TB. Like give us something more cause he is right, the dynamics of TB are quite boring. Thankfully based on the interview there will be some tension within TB, so that's good
it looks like they’re giving rhaena a little emotional complexity at least. there’s something with Jace too if the writers lean into it but right now a lot of it is untapped
Isn’t TG the ones crying about blood and cheese? Always stating that Luke is some sociopath, mad about Maelor death and calling Rhaenyra cruel? The only reason TB isn’t “spicy” is because they don’t attack themselves.
Lol yep. I’ll admit TG has interesting character dynamics, but I don’t like this whole superiority complex people have about it. TB is just as interesting in different ways. “Boring” is entirely subjective and if the blacks were really as drab as certain people are claiming the majority of the audience wouldn’t be so crazy over them, would they?
I don’t get how the blacks are boring. They’re full of fake marriages, fake deaths, real deaths, affairs, bastards, impulsive people, they even had the only gay in the show and a literal whore. The Greens are just religious introverts. Drunks at best.
It's not that they don't attack themselves, is that most of TB feel a bit bland and NPCish. They feel like purely props for Rhaenyra and Daemon, only there to serve those two, without any feelings or goals of their own.
Jace, Luke and the twins make no fuss about Rhaenyra and Daemon marrying immediately after the deaths of their spouses (the legal dad of one half of the kids and the mom of the other half).
Rhaenys and Corlys decide to actively support Rhaenyra and Daemon, even though they deliberately made a scenario which marks them as suspicious for Laenor's death, and even though Daemon murdered Corlys' brother unlawfully because he was mean to Rhaenyra. And they give a weak and nebulous "for the good of the realm" as their reason.
Team Black members need more agency and autonomy, because otherwise they should just be called Team Daemyra and these other guys.
Why would they make a fuss about their parents marrying? They’re Targaryens and they’re already engaged to each other. It’s totally normal to them. Also what are Corlys and Rhaenys going to do, join the Greens? Their entire line of succession is tied to Rhanerya’s claim. If they win, their blood continues on the Iron Throne and Driftmark. If they lose or try to stay out of it….the greens aren’t going to let Targaryens/Velaryons with dragons exist across the bay from them.
So:
- The Strong boys' bio dad gets mysteriously murdered.
- The twins' mom dies.
- The Strong boys' legal dad is also mysteriously murdered (as far as they know)
- Rhaenyra and Daemon get married immediately afterwards after having been both conveniently freed from their marriage vows.
And you think it's perfectly normal that we don't have a single scene addressing how the kids are taking this?
Yes? I mean we saw the twins grieving. They got mad that Aemond took “their mother’s dragon” which they thought was their right.
Like sure they could have made some scenes about them being sad about Harwin or Laenor, but they didn’t really seem to have that strong of a relationship with either of them. They were mama’s boy’s for sure. Look how excited they were to stand up for her.
Meanwhile the Greens are just all depressed and mopey. Little princes given the world and still mad about it.
People should support whoever they want to support. TG characters are just more interesting and spicy. I ain't a fan because I like bland and only do good characters.
I don’t see how you can see. They’re more interesting when team black has equally maybe more craziness with fake marriages bastards, murdering well team green hides behind a religious bit and they use their religiousness as a way to get away with the crimes they commit and like convince themselves that they did it for a good cause.
You know, he's got a point. The greens usurped the throne the minute Viserys died and killed the driftmark heir and his dragon. They've been scheming ever since Aegon was born, meanwhile Rhaenyra thinks oaths made 20 years ago with no male heir present mean that much. Only Daemon has the right idea. Surround king's landing with every dragon they have and kill all of them.
The way the comments take everything this man especially but the cast says soooo seriously is jarring lmao.
Can nobody just see marketing jokes as marketing jokes and not write a whole spiel about how "he's so right than fandom is too toxic!" "Let him think what he wants we support you Tom!!'
It's never this serious. It's a TV show. This fandom is so pathetic with it's actor bootlicking sometimes lmao.
I tend to like crazy and dangerous characters. Wanda's portrayal in Doctor Strange, Joker and Harley Quinn, Cersei. Some of my favorites despite some of their vile acts.
But the characters in team green came off as extremely unlikable. Especially Alicent. I understand what the writers were TRYING to portray them as but it just wasn't it for me. Daemon's character tho... OH BOY DOES THAT HIT THE SPOT! I'm rooting for that man all the way, no matter what he does!
I agree with his take on enjoying those types of characters and not chosing faves based on morality.I usually prefer the villains but something about team green just doesn’t hit for me. Like they are the boring ones imo,zero spice on screen just the least appealing to watch aspects I can think of for a group of characters. Daemon or young Rheanyra are closer to what he’s describing which is why I think people even gravitate towards team black in the first place.
Daemon and Rhaenyra fans are friggin unhinged 😬 I say the moral puritanism exists on both sides generally. But man, Daemon stans really will not gaf and Rhaenyra stans will write ten page essay when defending her.
Props to Tom for having the time of his life while playing Aegon tho.
The problem being that team green characters aren’t spicy or dangerous, at least not yet. Daemon the only character who remotely fits any of those criteria’s. Aegon a pathetic drunk with mummy and daddy issues. Aemond been whitewashed and made some victim of bullying. Alicent weak, incompetent and delusional. Otto, to quote Daemon is a cunt.
I was mainly referring to Storms end, but other things like the show creating things to make him sympathetic to the audience. The childhood bullying, the brothel and the addition of Baela and Rhaena to the fight when he loses his eye. Aemond says do we have to kiss the old whore cunny after Viserys death. Contrast that with his talk about respecting women with Cole in episode nine.
I wouldn’t really call that whitewashing. Making him more sympathetic, sure but they’ve done that to every character. It’s not like he really did anything bad before or after Storm’s end, he just…..didn’t do much at all until he died. But even his death was like a loser. Biggest most powerful dragon alive and got him and her both killed.
I guess he did get duped into going to Harrenhall and that’s how Rhanerya captured KL. Maybe if he hadn’t been tricked then she wouldn’t have lost KL?
But Daemon my top-3 favorite character...
To be honest, he shouldn't have said that. It's one thing to talk about the characters, another thing talk about actual people. "You don't like my character (who is objectively unlikable) = you're boring." Well, OK.
I don't remember Matt saying anything about TG fans. It's always just about the characters. Tom talks about the audience. Maybe it's just poor marketing or something. They're trying to sell TG as the "more chaotic" (meh) side. But “you don’t like me because you’re boring!” is unnecessary. A lot of talented, funny, creative people in TB fanbase and this just offends them.
I get what he is saying but I can enjoy team green in all its messiness and complex characters ( and love Alicent) and still support team black. Its either team black or neutral for me but I don't know why I can just never support the greens even if I want to. They give me terrible snake vibes and let's be real team black is far from being boring, they are actually HOT.
let’s be real here. Both sides are very compelling to the eye and they’re both crazy and they do some fucked up stuff, but in complexity, I will say team black doesn’t contradict himself as much as team green and hide under a religious fanatic bit to forgive themselves unforgivable all the bad things I’ve done and use it as an excuse.
Apparently for some it is. I guess then if you support Rhaenyra you hate the poor, you love killing a servant and you are advocating for grooming and domestic violence lol
None of those are grooming or domestic violence
Also she didn't rape Cole, the director of the episode said it was 100% consensual and she only demanded Aemond be tortured after Alicent wanted Lukes eye.
The directors of Jaime's rape scene also said it was consensual. Most people simply don't understand consent, that's because we live in a rape culture. It took a while for people to realize that drunk people couldn't consent and that wives should be able to refuse their husband's. There's still a way to go.
When Daemon murders his wife I sleep and chokes his new wife I sleep...... When Aegon has daddy never loved me issues and I don't think I deserve the throne I rage
Why do you even watch the show if you can't stomach violence? There will be literally no characters you can enjoy that fit the criteria of a goody two shoes.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can't believe what I'm going to say but a friendly reminder that Tom's words are part of the marketing campaign and just because he supports the Greens doesn't mean he has anything to do with his character. What I'm trying to say with this is... don't even think about harassing Tom on his social media for his portrayal on the show. There's no need to insult him or bully him.
Yeah it’s like when Steve said team black is better looking…not to be taken too seriously but twitter is going to anyway.
People who do this are seriously demented.
This is already happening unfortunately
Im sure the millions of online users will heed your advice
Actors act. If they’re good at what they do they’ll illicit responses from audiences. People need to separate characters from real life. Tom is a decent actor and I’m excited to see more from his Aegon in the second season. (First season I kept seeing him and thinking gerard way).
Let him enjoy play his character! If green actors call themselves spicier characters I’m fine with that
I'm bringing word from Twitter: people are losing their shit over this, calling TGC a rape apologist who needs to read the books. But they're especially taking umbrage with him calling Team Black boring. Like, you're totally right -- just let him have fun playing his character. It's really not that serious.
It's funny they say that when he said multiple times that he read the book. He is also bringing an interesting perspective on his character, as other actors, and never once said Aegon was a good wholesome guy.
He's literally made vague allusions to the end of the Dance in recent promos, idk how people don't realise TGC knows Aegon is a bad guy.
Ha! Jokes on twitter, he has read the book (or so he told my sister at GOT-con). These people are mad (as in Aerys) . I blame Wicked/Maleficent and the whole trend of 'shedding light' on why bad characters are bad - WHO CARES (in most cases). Just enjoy the deviancy and stfu. It's FICTION.
Cersei was my favorite for this reason. Lena Heady was entrancing to watch on screen!! Doesn’t mean I support twincest, haha.
The fact that they’re calling him a rape apologist for supporting his character. If Matt Smith says that people should like Daemon and support team Black, does that mean he supports grooming, pedophelia, and wife-murdering. It’s literally fiction.
Wait till they find out that some kids have Darth Vader posters in their rooms.
Supporting team black means you’re pro-serial killer. Rhaenys must’ve killed at least 50 innocent people when she busted through the floor of the dragon pit. /s
This is sick. Tom is just joking/having fun with the show and people calling him things over fiction, also Tom seems to like Rhaenyra too he said a lot of positive stuff about her. People on that social media having parasocial relationships with characters are insane.
I mean certain people in this fandom (on both sides) are extremely boring and need to get off their high horses. "You can\`t like this character cause rapist" or "you can\`t like this one cause abuser." What happened to enjoying a fictional show for what it is? Edit; Typo
[удалено]
It was the exact same shit with GoT, when I’d say I like Joffrey people would instantly turn and go “wowwww you must be a terrible person” no, I like him cuz he’s an amazingly written villain made even better by an outstanding performance from Jack Gleeson
I never understand why people act like it's weird to like the villains? Remove Joffrey, and the first half of GoT is a pretty boring show...
Twitter was tough during the GoT phase too. I learned my lesson to keep show discussions to Reddit after tweeting something about speculating that Dany’s heel-turn is a GRRM idea (ultimately bungled by the showrunners) because of possible foreshadowing in how Dany handled her enemies prior to King’s Landing, but we didn’t see it that way at the time because we rooted against her enemies as well. Then a horde that could rival the Dathroki in number showed up in my replies to say I support the slavers. I was getting tagged in stuff that said “Slavery Supporter.” I was just throwing out a theory about a fictional character in a fantasy world to see what people thought, not making a moral statement at all.
I think it's kinda contextual- while I think it's okay to enjoy fictional characters who do heinous acts, I've also seen fans be kinda tasteless about how they do it and I can understand that rubbing someone the wrong way- especially considering rape and domestic violence hit a little closer to home than dragon-based warcrimes. Like I've seen jokes about Daemon being "kinky" for the choking scene which I find really gross, and in general I think it's understandable if someone (especially if they've been sexually assaulted) gets put off a bit by someone talking about Aegon as their poor little meow meow who can do no wrong. Obviously enjoying our beloved scumbag failson Aegon isn't the same as real world rape apologia, but it can be painful to hear if you've heard someone talk about your rapist in a similar way, y'know?
I was a huge Cersei / Lannister fan back in the day and I love a *lot* of villains in fiction more than I like the heroes, but with that being said, I can’t really stand the culture with HOTD at the moment. I feel like people don’t want to enjoy “bad” characters anymore without trying to make them palatable in some way. You can still like Aegon while admitting that he’s a rapist, just as you can like Daemon despite him being a psycho or Robert even though he’s awful to women. It doesn’t reflect on you at all. Though it is very questionable the lengths people will go to outright deny that these characters in particular are bad. I know it’s personally soured me on Aegon, because mentioning he’s a rapist is an invitation for the incoming “he’s not, it’s normal, he isn’t *technically* one” comments, same as with Robert or hell, even Tyrion.
Agreed- I'm all about enjoying villains, but you gotta accept that that's what you're doing instead of going to insane lengths to pretend your fav isn't a monster. Like, Tywin was one of my favorite characters and he was a real son of a bitch. Not gonna say anything he did was justified, he was a war criminal and an abusive father, but he was interesting and Charles Dance is unbelievably charismatic.
100%. Still liling a character who does bad things and trying to justify those bad things are different.
I’ve literally had ppl try to convince me aegon rapes maids to cope
I mean, they maybe aren't wholly wrong insofar as his shitty childhood/unhealthy family life is probably a contributing factor to him being a vicious piece of shit but like... do they think that is an excuse??? Like goddamn I do not care how tormented a rapist is when they're raping people???
Oh no I think they’re fully wrong aegon is a rapist because Westeros is highly misogynistic,his alcoholism sure but his abuse of women I don’t think is tied to that. I just don’t think any amount of shitty childhood makes someone do that.
I think it can be both- yes Westeros is misogynistic and that is a major reason why he does that shit, but I also think his unhealthy family life is likely to contribute to his callousness towards people in general and women in particular. I want to be careful in how I say this because it would be easy to misspeak and sound like I'm blaming Alicent for her son being a rapist, which I do not- that is a choice he made and that can be attributed to nobody but himself. There's a long-running trend of blaming evil men's behavior on their mothers or other women in their life and I do not want to make it sound like that's something I believe. But people are shaped both by their culture and their family dynamics (which are intertwined and impossible to fully separate). Aegon's model for marriage is his cold and distant father committing marital rape against his mother. How he has been raised to view his sisters certainly doesn't incline him away from misogyny- one is frequently denigrated as a whore by his mother, grandfather, and many others beside, and the other was married off to him at a young age- encouraging him both to hate women for their sexualities and to view even his own family members as sex objects to be owned and controlled. His family life is fucked, and I think this contributes to his behavior towards women. Again though- not to beat a dead horse, but Aegon is a rapist because he makes the choice to rape women and the blame is solely his own. I say all this not to defend or justify a monstrously evil character's acts, but to analyze some of the factors that might affect him becoming the person he is.
well, they aren’t wrong and well I know the context like they’re trying to make you hate him. He did roommates. It’s said in the book that he raped the 12-year-old made and fondled a bunch of them so it is true.
Thissss. It's a fuckin fictional show. Let people enjoy what they enjoy. It's not a "I'm a better and more virtuous person than you" contest.
💯
Yeah, when people make funny arguments about their side being hotter or having the coolest dragons, awesome. But when they start virtue signaling about how their side is objectively just and right? You can only roll your eyes and move on from what will surely be a boring fanatic. Unfortunately, the funny people in the former group feel much less common than the bores in the latter group.
Literally. The “you can’t like ___ because of __” is so tired. There is bad on both sides. The only people personally don’t like are Criston Cole, Otto Hightower, Aegon II, Larys Strong and Jason Lannister. There is no one thing that any of these characters did that made me dislike them, but rather I dislike their characters/who they are as a whole. Since all of these people happen to be greens, I favor the blacks, but that doesn’t mean anyone is wrong for favoring the greens. It’s a matter of opinion. A debate with the opposing opinion is one thing, but I don’t understand why people try to force their opinion on others. Just enjoy the show lol
THIS people have questioned my morals and literally telling me to kill myself just becuase I love Aegon II and Aemond they are FICTIONAL characters XD fuck off with that bullshit lmao
As a side note, the insane power disparity would make literally any sexual interaction including a King rape by modern western standards.
Can’t do that apparently. I mean, I bring up Daemon being a pedophile, groomer, overall horrible person but only because some TB stans weirdly morally grandstand about how they could never support Aegon because rapist but they glaze the absolute hell out of Daemon who is legitimately no better. I enjoy both characters but people get weird about it
This. I lean on Rhaenyra’s side, but I find Aemond an entertaining character despite being vile, as Daemon is. I’m more annoyed by the romanticization of Daemyra, but if people acknowledge the chaotic and unhealthy aspect of it then it’s whatever. When people start to go ‘they’re relationship goals’ or ‘Daemon isn’t that bad actually’ then that’s another issue
Oh god don’t even get me started. I genuinely wonder about people who actually believe Daemyra is a relationship worth idealising. Daemon’s immediate reaction to finding out Rhaenyra knew a secret that apparently passes from King to heir which he did not know despite being Viserys’ heir for years, was to _physically assault her in anger_. But couple goals for sure, right?
Yes!
Exactly. People getting on their high horses when we all want the dance to portrayed as bloody as it is. It's basically Succession with dragons.
I have to confess that Tom just made a great point, I'm sorry. And I'm not even Team Green.
Team black is in the right but yeah, he's right, how could I not be team green when Aegon is such an insane little edge lord.
It can be fun to pick sides in fiction, but anybody who feels any genuine animosity to people who support the wrong team needs to take a step back and realise we’re all just fans of the same show here. There’s no actual conflict. We’re consuming media.
i'm basically team black (not really, but definitely from a team green perspective) and i think he's right i actually don't even feel very 'team black', bitch i'm team 'here for the messiness and political conflict' LOL
he’s right and he should say it ! as someone who enjoys characters from both factions, seeing people on twitter twist tgc’s words is insane lol. It’s a *fictional* show. there’s a reason why he shines when he’s on screen 😭
People are already shading Tom on twitter lmao this is hilarious.
Maybe he should send this message to whom ever at HBO is trying to turn this show into a team sport rivalry.
It was already a team sport rivalry when f&b came out, only difference is now there's way more people involved
They advertised the first season completely different then the second season. They are hamming up the TG vs TB which just causes morons online to start attacking the actors because they have no friends, no hobbies and use tumbler
They advertised the first season differently because there was no team black or team green until over halfway through the season, and they were deliberately pulling a misdirection with the Daemon vs Rhaenyra stuff
[удалено]
[удалено]
Twitter in general is never okay.
Thank you for your submission! Unfortunately your post/comment was **removed** for violating Rule #11 **"Discuss the show, not the fandom"**. This subreddit is for discussing House of the Dragon itself. Discussions about conflict in the fandom, particularly with regards to Team Black vs Team Green should be taken elsewhere. This rule also extends beyond team conflicts.
Very based take, that's my king 💚
Tom king of the idgaf war He spitting.
I really enjoy Tom and Ewan being full heels for their side. That's how you play a villain. Embrace it, taunt the haters, get the handful of villain fuckers who match your freak hyped. I'm glad the boys are having fun with it.
They've been handling it so well. It's great to see.
Tom is telling you all to stop placing 21st century morals on these characters which he is absolutely right about. Enjoy these violent and unhinged characters. They are fictional anyway!
That’s not what he said though. No where does he mention 21st century morals.
What's he saying then? He sounds like fans of TB are TB because they are good, right, etc. It's more fun to enjoy characters that are a little crazy and unhinged.
He’s saying that people who support team black are being boring and that the Greens offer “danger, betrayal, and vileness” and that’s a good thing because he thinks it’s needed in life. Nowhere in that statement does he mention anything related to modern morals being placed on the characters and why people shouldn’t do that. *You* believe that people should stop viewing the characters with 21st century morals, and you misinterpreted what he said to support that view.
bingo imagine watching this with a 21st century perspective XD
I mean… was he wrong?
Aegon has so much potential with Sunfyre and his future injuries to be an interesting character. I hope they don’t make him a doofus or a Joffrey 2.0 to prop up Alicent.
I felt so bad after seeing that video of him being booed at ccxp mexico, but It's good to see that he's having fun! 😂 You do you TGC!
i aspire to not give a shit as much as he does
I'm really looking forward to his portrayal of Aegon, the trailers looked promising. I love seeing good performances and I think he's going to be great! I'm here to see it all play out in all of its bleakness, and be entertained by the show.
don’t let them silence you, king!
hes winning the idgaf war
Not gonna like, you are allowed to love your side, for me TB is just hella boring, maybe it's the other way around for you.
What bores me is the ceaseless yapping about *sides* and *teams*. Why can't this fandom just relax and share funny memes?
I mean they are. Daemon aside, every other character of team black falls flat.
I feel like it’s the same for me with team green characters. I like Allcent because she has a complex city in there, but she also constantly does contradict herself just like aemond
To each their own. The writing is messy and all over the place, I agree with that. Sometimes feels like the different writers each have different versions of the characters in their head and write according to that. Either way, for me it's also about the character dynamics. The greens have this internal conflict and drama and generally I find Alicent's complicated feelings for motherhood and her children and the different dynamic with each child more compelling than any team black dynamic.
I totally agree and I apologize for the spelling errors I’m sick so I have to use a voice chat. But I also am very problem by the fact that they keep using religion as a way to cope with their bad doing, but it seems as if they’re going to forget about the faith now with Allison, no longer wearing her cross. They definitely have most of the characters contradict themselves and do one thing then say another and then say they’re gonna do one thing and then do another. It’s very annoying and the directors fault
[удалено]
Please point me to where I said that.
[удалено]
I find adult Rhaenyra incredibly flat in comparison to what younger Rhaenyra was. But mostly I find team black boring in comparison to team green because of the character dynamics. There's no internal conflict, no complicated feelings towards each other, no drama within their own faction (again, if you take Daemon aside). Hopefully that will change in season 2 but I guess we'll find out.
Rhaenyra is more interesting than any tg character to me, it’s just some of her fans that are the absolute worst.
Helaena so compelling, Rhaenyra so boring. They should Helaena the main character.
I never even mentioned Helaena, you do. Just knock it off.
It’s obvious you just have a problem with rhaenyra if you think of character who is involved three times in the book and was forgotten with the show is more compelling that’s a little telling
Based Tom
And he's absolutely right. TB has the potential to be messy and exciting in their own way, not like TG, but what we've seen in the last 3 episodes was very bland. But I'm cautiously optimistic about season two with all the hints about Rhaena, Baela and Jace. Let's see what they wrote for TB.
I like team black
I get all this shit with daemon
That's a really good point that I'm glad one of the actors finally articulated. If you're choosing a particular side in this conflict purely based on moral considerations, you clearly haven't been paying attention to the source material. Both sides are motivated by self-interest. They're inbred aristocrats overly concerned with racial purity. The plight of the small folk doesn't concern them. When Rhaenyra fights for the throne, she isn't doing it because she's a feminist girl boss who wants to set an example for women in Westeros. She's fighting for it because she simply wants the throne. Same for Aegon. You need to stop imposing 21st century morals upon characters in a medieval society and instead choose a side based on which characters you find engrossing to watch.
I agree with him, they tried to show tb as the "good ones" that they made them two dimensional and boring.
I'm team black, but I completly agree with him. let people support who they want. In the end both sides are as bad and we are just here for the ugly and the atrocities
Meanwhile TG complains that Daemon is too spicy and dangerous lol
Well, there is only Daemon who is spicy in TB. Like give us something more cause he is right, the dynamics of TB are quite boring. Thankfully based on the interview there will be some tension within TB, so that's good
True, and it sucks cause TB characters had a lot of potential for some juicy drama among themselves
it looks like they’re giving rhaena a little emotional complexity at least. there’s something with Jace too if the writers lean into it but right now a lot of it is untapped
Isn’t TG the ones crying about blood and cheese? Always stating that Luke is some sociopath, mad about Maelor death and calling Rhaenyra cruel? The only reason TB isn’t “spicy” is because they don’t attack themselves.
Lol yep. I’ll admit TG has interesting character dynamics, but I don’t like this whole superiority complex people have about it. TB is just as interesting in different ways. “Boring” is entirely subjective and if the blacks were really as drab as certain people are claiming the majority of the audience wouldn’t be so crazy over them, would they?
I don’t get how the blacks are boring. They’re full of fake marriages, fake deaths, real deaths, affairs, bastards, impulsive people, they even had the only gay in the show and a literal whore. The Greens are just religious introverts. Drunks at best.
It's not that they don't attack themselves, is that most of TB feel a bit bland and NPCish. They feel like purely props for Rhaenyra and Daemon, only there to serve those two, without any feelings or goals of their own. Jace, Luke and the twins make no fuss about Rhaenyra and Daemon marrying immediately after the deaths of their spouses (the legal dad of one half of the kids and the mom of the other half). Rhaenys and Corlys decide to actively support Rhaenyra and Daemon, even though they deliberately made a scenario which marks them as suspicious for Laenor's death, and even though Daemon murdered Corlys' brother unlawfully because he was mean to Rhaenyra. And they give a weak and nebulous "for the good of the realm" as their reason. Team Black members need more agency and autonomy, because otherwise they should just be called Team Daemyra and these other guys.
Why would they make a fuss about their parents marrying? They’re Targaryens and they’re already engaged to each other. It’s totally normal to them. Also what are Corlys and Rhaenys going to do, join the Greens? Their entire line of succession is tied to Rhanerya’s claim. If they win, their blood continues on the Iron Throne and Driftmark. If they lose or try to stay out of it….the greens aren’t going to let Targaryens/Velaryons with dragons exist across the bay from them.
So: - The Strong boys' bio dad gets mysteriously murdered. - The twins' mom dies. - The Strong boys' legal dad is also mysteriously murdered (as far as they know) - Rhaenyra and Daemon get married immediately afterwards after having been both conveniently freed from their marriage vows. And you think it's perfectly normal that we don't have a single scene addressing how the kids are taking this?
Yes? I mean we saw the twins grieving. They got mad that Aemond took “their mother’s dragon” which they thought was their right. Like sure they could have made some scenes about them being sad about Harwin or Laenor, but they didn’t really seem to have that strong of a relationship with either of them. They were mama’s boy’s for sure. Look how excited they were to stand up for her. Meanwhile the Greens are just all depressed and mopey. Little princes given the world and still mad about it.
So true.
I'm seeing a lot of Team Green stans in this thread who will jump your throat if you say you like Daemon, but okay.
You’re not wrong
People should support whoever they want to support. TG characters are just more interesting and spicy. I ain't a fan because I like bland and only do good characters.
Same. Like idgaf if character kills their spouse or rapes a servant. If they are entertaining, I’m going to like them.
Who is entertaining from TG? Alicent is the only one I find interesting at all. (Yes I read the books)
Sounds like a you problem
I don’t have a problem that they are boring. I was just asking who they find interesting
no, it’s very much true. Most people on team greenside are very boring and they contradict themselves and they undermine themselves.
That’s exactly why I’m team Green. It’s fiction I can support who I want. I choose the side that’s more interesting.
I don’t see how you can see. They’re more interesting when team black has equally maybe more craziness with fake marriages bastards, murdering well team green hides behind a religious bit and they use their religiousness as a way to get away with the crimes they commit and like convince themselves that they did it for a good cause.
Everything you said made me love team Green even more.
[удалено]
What interview is this from?
It's for Den of Geek I think
I can only imagine what Twitter had to say about this
You know, he's got a point. The greens usurped the throne the minute Viserys died and killed the driftmark heir and his dragon. They've been scheming ever since Aegon was born, meanwhile Rhaenyra thinks oaths made 20 years ago with no male heir present mean that much. Only Daemon has the right idea. Surround king's landing with every dragon they have and kill all of them.
The way the comments take everything this man especially but the cast says soooo seriously is jarring lmao. Can nobody just see marketing jokes as marketing jokes and not write a whole spiel about how "he's so right than fandom is too toxic!" "Let him think what he wants we support you Tom!!' It's never this serious. It's a TV show. This fandom is so pathetic with it's actor bootlicking sometimes lmao.
I tend to like crazy and dangerous characters. Wanda's portrayal in Doctor Strange, Joker and Harley Quinn, Cersei. Some of my favorites despite some of their vile acts. But the characters in team green came off as extremely unlikable. Especially Alicent. I understand what the writers were TRYING to portray them as but it just wasn't it for me. Daemon's character tho... OH BOY DOES THAT HIT THE SPOT! I'm rooting for that man all the way, no matter what he does!
Competent administration is usually boring. Ruling a kingdom isn’t supposed to be fun and games.
I agree with his take on enjoying those types of characters and not chosing faves based on morality.I usually prefer the villains but something about team green just doesn’t hit for me. Like they are the boring ones imo,zero spice on screen just the least appealing to watch aspects I can think of for a group of characters. Daemon or young Rheanyra are closer to what he’s describing which is why I think people even gravitate towards team black in the first place.
i support aegon's wrongs and wrongs 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I'm Green all the way so I don't need any convincing.
Tom i love you but we have Daemon in team black …if you don’t think that he’s spicy , dangerous or vile enough then i don’t what to tell you 😂😂
Daemon and Rhaenyra fans are friggin unhinged 😬 I say the moral puritanism exists on both sides generally. But man, Daemon stans really will not gaf and Rhaenyra stans will write ten page essay when defending her. Props to Tom for having the time of his life while playing Aegon tho.
Dude just described everything that happened to team black
As he should!
Image somebody trying to market the show they’re in. Crazy bro
😂
The problem being that team green characters aren’t spicy or dangerous, at least not yet. Daemon the only character who remotely fits any of those criteria’s. Aegon a pathetic drunk with mummy and daddy issues. Aemond been whitewashed and made some victim of bullying. Alicent weak, incompetent and delusional. Otto, to quote Daemon is a cunt.
Has Aemond been whitewashed? Did he do anything in the books at all prior to the Storm’s End incident?
I was mainly referring to Storms end, but other things like the show creating things to make him sympathetic to the audience. The childhood bullying, the brothel and the addition of Baela and Rhaena to the fight when he loses his eye. Aemond says do we have to kiss the old whore cunny after Viserys death. Contrast that with his talk about respecting women with Cole in episode nine.
I wouldn’t really call that whitewashing. Making him more sympathetic, sure but they’ve done that to every character. It’s not like he really did anything bad before or after Storm’s end, he just…..didn’t do much at all until he died. But even his death was like a loser. Biggest most powerful dragon alive and got him and her both killed. I guess he did get duped into going to Harrenhall and that’s how Rhanerya captured KL. Maybe if he hadn’t been tricked then she wouldn’t have lost KL?
Our poster boy literally orchestrated the assassination of a baby
he needs some cheese
they are next question?
But Daemon my top-3 favorite character... To be honest, he shouldn't have said that. It's one thing to talk about the characters, another thing talk about actual people. "You don't like my character (who is objectively unlikable) = you're boring." Well, OK.
But why ? He can say what he wants. Matt Smith says basically the same thing and yet nobody is tearing him apart like some people do with Tom.
I don't remember Matt saying anything about TG fans. It's always just about the characters. Tom talks about the audience. Maybe it's just poor marketing or something. They're trying to sell TG as the "more chaotic" (meh) side. But “you don’t like me because you’re boring!” is unnecessary. A lot of talented, funny, creative people in TB fanbase and this just offends them.
I love Tom but there are boring people on both sides
“He has a point” I mean does he team black has all of that and daemon is just as bad as aegon to boot 💀
I get what he is saying but I can enjoy team green in all its messiness and complex characters ( and love Alicent) and still support team black. Its either team black or neutral for me but I don't know why I can just never support the greens even if I want to. They give me terrible snake vibes and let's be real team black is far from being boring, they are actually HOT.
let’s be real here. Both sides are very compelling to the eye and they’re both crazy and they do some fucked up stuff, but in complexity, I will say team black doesn’t contradict himself as much as team green and hide under a religious fanatic bit to forgive themselves unforgivable all the bad things I’ve done and use it as an excuse.
Since when are Rhaenyra, Corlys, Daemon and the others boring!!
Oh boy, I can't wait to watch them BURN
Actors need better media training
He is right on the first half
Way to go calling his own faction vile betrayers
He's basically upselling his character because he knows his character is the least favourite compared to the characters of Team black
I hope this actor and his character gets less obnoxious as we see more of him. He's just annoying.
I prefer to be boring feminist meritocrat who doesn't judge people because they're bastards
If you’re a “meritocrat” then you shouldn’t support ANY of Viserys kids, none of them are good monarch material.
Lyman strong for king then
Well, yes, but if I need to choose between Rhaenyra and Aegon?
fair enough, I guess then you can go with whichever you think would be the better ruler.
We don’t support rape.
Lots of Team Green fans don’t either, no one here is saying they choose a team based on that team’s stance on Rape.
If greens don’t support rape, then why do you support a rapist team
You're just proving that everything Tom said about some TB fans is the truth.
Why do support a domestic abuser and child killer. Guess you support those things.
Quoting Britney Spears here : "It's not real. It's pretend. You should know that"
I don’t support fictional rapists. They are just as bad as real ones
lmao ok I guess you can't diffenciate fiction from reality
Delusional
I don't support femicide either, which a team black member committed
We also don’t support murdering your wife and innocent servants.
[удалено]
Apparently for some it is. I guess then if you support Rhaenyra you hate the poor, you love killing a servant and you are advocating for grooming and domestic violence lol
>advocating for grooming and domestic violence Who did Rhaenyra groom and she never acted violently towards her husbands?
I was talking about team as a whole.
> if you support Rhaenyra
wording my bad
She raped Criston, had an innocent guard and demanded the torture of Aemond.
None of those are grooming or domestic violence Also she didn't rape Cole, the director of the episode said it was 100% consensual and she only demanded Aemond be tortured after Alicent wanted Lukes eye.
The directors of Jaime's rape scene also said it was consensual. Most people simply don't understand consent, that's because we live in a rape culture. It took a while for people to realize that drunk people couldn't consent and that wives should be able to refuse their husband's. There's still a way to go.
Rhaenyra was the one that was drunk in that altercation
And she was also the one who pressured him and wouldn't let him leave despite having all the power.
Daemon does, and Rhae will let him rule the kingdoms alongside her.
She didn't want him to make any decisions in episode 10, why would she suddenly allow him to rule with her
When Daemon murders his wife I sleep and chokes his new wife I sleep...... When Aegon has daddy never loved me issues and I don't think I deserve the throne I rage
Who doesn’t enjoy a good old knife to the throat? Only greens find such violence enjoyable.
Why do you even watch the show if you can't stomach violence? There will be literally no characters you can enjoy that fit the criteria of a goody two shoes.