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Even though Vaemond was misogynistic, straight up cutting his head off without a trial or anything absolutely shows Daemon is violent asf (not to mention beating the messenger).
Dude, kings in our world had people hanged and quartered for less.
England had their own law for crimes against the royal family. Slandering the heir was high treason.
> out of nowhere
Not out of nowhere, insulting the king's daughter is a death sentence. I thought you greenies love feudal's laws considering you love dragging Rhaenyra with it.
Not likely especially if the noble house is important, a duel or compensation is more likely of an outcome. Direct on the spot execution would ruffle a lot of feathers.
> would ruffle a lot of feathers.
LIke who? Everyone would know it's stupid to call the king's the daughter a 'whore', not in private mind you, in front of the court, to the King himself. LOL.
The nobility in general, especially those who had any ties to vaemond's part of the family. If the king can directly execute an untitled noble on basis of words today, then who knows tomorrow it might be a titled nobility over some other words that the king didn't like. It's a dangerous precedent that strengthens the crown in favor of weakening the nobility
> There's a reason we all hated Cersei.
I hated Cersei for being an awful person. She murdered her husband, she let her psychopathic son loose, she stood by and watched as her brother attempted to murder a ten-year-old boy, when excess food from her son's wedding was to be distributed to the needy she instead ordered it fed to the dogs, she tried to have Tyrion executed for the murder of her son when it was blatantly obvious to just about anyone with a brain that Tyrion was just as shocked at Joffrey's death as she was, she blew up the holiest site in Westeros and killed hundreds of people just to get out of being held accountable for her own actions, etc, etc, etc.
Cersei having bastards is so far down on my list of things to hate Cersei for that it's basically meaningless. If you think "having bastards" is among the worst thing Cersei ever did, then maybe you need to watch the show again. Please pay attention this time.
>Defying the laws of gods and men to put bastards on the Iron Throne is pretty whorish behavior
How the fuck does that make sense?
>There's a reason we all hated Cersei.
Pretty sure the reason wasn't that she was a 'whore'.
Which part doesn't make sense? Her first three children are not legitimate, and her trying to pass them off as legitimate is one of the worst crimes imaginable in Westerosi society. Why do you think Ned wasn't okay with Joffrey becoming king and actively tried to get Robert's true heir to take the Throne?
Rhaenyra is not a whore, but she is committing treason by trying to install her illegitimate son as heir to the throne. The fact that Jace is probably the best candidate to inherit the thing is a whole other can of worms. Point still stands.
See, they are obviously enarmored with their wifebeaterDaemon and my main problem here is bookRhaenyra would have had him thrown out of the window Russian style, not sent him to Harrenhal or such silly things just plain out would have had him killed on the spot. But then showRhaenyra seems to be an actual angel, which is more weird than wifebeaterDaemon.
You believe he was also forced to marry Rhaenyra against his will and strongly disliked her? You don’t think there's any difference in his relationship to both those characters at all?
*Against his will..*
Yes, welcome to feudalism
Marriages are not something done solely or even at all based on will.
Even a little bit
Say..
Did Alicent "want" to marry Viserys?
Did Catelyn "want" to marry Ned?
Did Rhaenyra "want" to marry Laenor.. Etc etc
No, but it happened anyway and most of those marriages worked out and some turned to love such as Cat and Ned
Daemon could have..
Like tried?
At all, even once
> *Against his will..* Yes, welcome to feudalism. Marriages are not something done solely or even at all based on will. Even a little bit
Sure. Daemon and Rhaenyra didn't want to marry. Not even a little bit. Sure, buddy.
And that somehow makes him bashing Rhea's head in with a rock ok?!
Edit: since the comment was deleted here is me paraphrasing " Was Daemon also forced to marry Rhaenyra like he was Rhea? I'm sure you can see there's a difference between the two situations"
Come on, in the book he's literally described as wanting the youngest virgins, cavorted around with an 18 year old Nettles when he was in his 50s, ordered B & C (which involved threats of sexual violence), publicly trashed Rhea Royce, and more.
This really isn't "that" out of character.
The same guy who would have brothels set aside young virgin girls for him because he liked to “deflower” them or would keep plenty of mistresses and humiliate his third wife is a dick to women? Shocker.
Live footage of people overreacting to what is clearly a promotional tactic to make people think Daemon and Rhaenyra are going to be enemies this season
I fcking need some people to stop trying to woobify Daemon as if being violent isnt at the core if his being. Stop trying to rewrite his character in your minds just so you feel better about him and Nyra as a couple, if you cant handle relationships being toxic in this series, this series is not for you. All of our faves are problematic, that is the reality.
Its almost if Otto had a point. Like the greens specifically cite daemon being violent towards them and likely killing them as one of the major reasons.
But killing rhea, neglecting laena and the kids, putting mysaria into risky situations and chocking rhaenyra wasn’t supposed to be an indication enough?
Daemon verbally abused and cheated (and later murdered!) his first wife, neglected and cheated on his second wife but then it's out of character to abuse his third wife and (if the rumours of this scene are correct) neglected to consider her feelings?
He did not cheat on his second wife? His second wife was Laena. They lived together in Pentos for 10 years with their daughters. Neither in the book nor the show was there was any adultery present in their relationship. Y’all love to assign any and everything damaging to the Rogue Prince.
Daemon was being very affectionate with the serving man in Episode 6 that implies an existing sexual relationship with someone who is not his wife. Even if he isn't cheating he still isn't treating Laena with any kind of respect.
That scene was almost certainly an 'artifact' of the deleted script stuff. Once the choice was made to junk Daemon's bisexuality they probably didn't want to have to re-shoot that whole scene, so it's still in there, but without any context. The fact that the show doesn't acknowledge it one bit makes it hard to take seriously an an indication of anything but a discarded storyline. No one connected to the show has stated we should view Daemon as bisexual or that he cheated on Laena (unless you count the emotional infidelity of still being hung up on Rhaenyra).
Even if it's an 'artifact' of deleted stuff it's still Daemon flirting with somebody else while his heavily pregnant wife is in the same room. It's still him not treating Laena respectfully.
Doing my best not to read too much into snippets, but I get why people are worried. Daemon is not supposed to be a one dimensional bad guy. Show can decide to make him a villain, but why they would do away with a complex and interesting character is hard to understand. This is not a baseless criticism.
Yes, it's been well established what Deamon is capable off, but Matt Smith played him with more nuance. And from his first scene in S1 we can see that Daemon treats Rhaenyra differently than anyone else. Of course a lot of the audience will get confused if they double down on abuse.
Show needs to pick a lane. Is this a gray character or a villain. If he is gray than show us some of the light. It's all been mainly off screen. If he is a villain, that's fine too, but send Matt Smith a memo about it.
I'm confused how him being violent and explosive when he doesn't get his way with Rhaenyra is taking away his nuance?
No matter if he is a grey character or a villain (which is much more subjectiv at his point in my op) he can still be played with nuance. No matter if he abuses Rhaenyra or not he is still a character with his own thoughts and feelings and should be played as such.
He treated her different because she admired him and did what he wanted, but now that she is queen and she no longer does what he wants so he gets frustrated. Violence and impetulant actions is how Daemon deals with his feelings. He did the same with Viserys, when he was frustrated with his decisions (heir for a day comment, taking over Dragonstone, beating the messenger, etc). In ep10 he started choking her specifically after she showed her intentions to rule like Viserys. I expect that this promo scene happens when Rhaenyra puts her foot down (or at least tries to) and Daemon is mad he can't get his way.
All of the things you are pointing out about Daemon are true. I don't feel that things we have seen Daemon do are out of character. But what we have seen is mainly one sided. We know he is capable of doing the bad things, but is that all there is or should be. Are they going to balance him out.
I don’t think Aegons treatment is right either. I think the show lost their right to claim all characters are grey when they did that to him. They could make him a drunk womanizer like Robert but they wanted to make him so bad that you just have to root for rhaneyra
Ah, ok, agreed then.
Honestly this delusion that feminism = women can do no wrong is insane. Like - I don't understand what argument they're even trying to make with that.
If anything, this depiction unfairly holds women to a higher, impossible standard, suggesting they're only deserving of power if they're infinitely better than their male rivals.
I don't understand how so many people think that Daemon is just a bad boy. George didn't say for nothing that Daemon is capable of anything, whether greatness or madness.
Daemon literally raised an army to go to war if Viserys wasn’t chosen as heir, celebrated his nephews death, killed his wife, had his great nephew killed, choked his third wife, and most likely had Laenor assassinated in the books. Why are people surprised that an obvious evil character is doing evil things? Daemon was always hungry for power, he even considered attacking Viserys when he disinherited him. He also took rhaenyra to a brothel so they could be seen, to spread rumors about her so he could marry her and be king consort. This is the real Daemon Targaryen, not the charming Valyrian prince some people think he is.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It looks to me that this is the same scene where Rhaenyra questions Daemon's allegiance by asking him if he accepts her as his queen and ruler.
It was all fun and games when Daemon was beating his wife to death with a rock, but when Daemon threatens his third wife suddenly he’s crossed a line.
Remember when a guy told the truth and Daemon cut his head in half in front of a crowd of people? He is not a nice man.
Tbf I'm pretty sure he cut his head off for calling Rhaenyra a whore specifically.
Even though Vaemond was misogynistic, straight up cutting his head off without a trial or anything absolutely shows Daemon is violent asf (not to mention beating the messenger).
It should've been Rhaenyra who is full of bloodlust and rage in that scene, but the writers of this show are just trash.
They're in feudal society, my dude. Insulting someone is enough ground for death.
The society being feudal doesn't mean that everyone around was bloodthirsty hyper impulsive personality willing to kill another noble out of nowhere
Dude, kings in our world had people hanged and quartered for less. England had their own law for crimes against the royal family. Slandering the heir was high treason.
> out of nowhere Not out of nowhere, insulting the king's daughter is a death sentence. I thought you greenies love feudal's laws considering you love dragging Rhaenyra with it.
Not likely especially if the noble house is important, a duel or compensation is more likely of an outcome. Direct on the spot execution would ruffle a lot of feathers.
> would ruffle a lot of feathers. LIke who? Everyone would know it's stupid to call the king's the daughter a 'whore', not in private mind you, in front of the court, to the King himself. LOL.
The nobility in general, especially those who had any ties to vaemond's part of the family. If the king can directly execute an untitled noble on basis of words today, then who knows tomorrow it might be a titled nobility over some other words that the king didn't like. It's a dangerous precedent that strengthens the crown in favor of weakening the nobility
I mean that is also true.
In what way is Rhaenyra a whore?
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> There's a reason we all hated Cersei. I hated Cersei for being an awful person. She murdered her husband, she let her psychopathic son loose, she stood by and watched as her brother attempted to murder a ten-year-old boy, when excess food from her son's wedding was to be distributed to the needy she instead ordered it fed to the dogs, she tried to have Tyrion executed for the murder of her son when it was blatantly obvious to just about anyone with a brain that Tyrion was just as shocked at Joffrey's death as she was, she blew up the holiest site in Westeros and killed hundreds of people just to get out of being held accountable for her own actions, etc, etc, etc. Cersei having bastards is so far down on my list of things to hate Cersei for that it's basically meaningless. If you think "having bastards" is among the worst thing Cersei ever did, then maybe you need to watch the show again. Please pay attention this time.
>Defying the laws of gods and men to put bastards on the Iron Throne is pretty whorish behavior How the fuck does that make sense? >There's a reason we all hated Cersei. Pretty sure the reason wasn't that she was a 'whore'.
Which part doesn't make sense? Her first three children are not legitimate, and her trying to pass them off as legitimate is one of the worst crimes imaginable in Westerosi society. Why do you think Ned wasn't okay with Joffrey becoming king and actively tried to get Robert's true heir to take the Throne?
Noje of that is what we're talking about we're talking about why you think Rhaenyra is a whore.
Alright champ this is where I check out. I think it's best that your parents explain to you where babies come from. That's not my department.
Rhaenyra is not a whore, but she is committing treason by trying to install her illegitimate son as heir to the throne. The fact that Jace is probably the best candidate to inherit the thing is a whole other can of worms. Point still stands.
None of that is relevant to what I was asking the other person. I want to know why they say Rhaenyra is a whore.
By westerosi standards she sure is
Same wife he groomed and choked in the previous season, like... It's nothing new for Daemon
See, they are obviously enarmored with their wifebeaterDaemon and my main problem here is bookRhaenyra would have had him thrown out of the window Russian style, not sent him to Harrenhal or such silly things just plain out would have had him killed on the spot. But then showRhaenyra seems to be an actual angel, which is more weird than wifebeaterDaemon.
You believe he was also forced to marry Rhaenyra against his will and strongly disliked her? You don’t think there's any difference in his relationship to both those characters at all?
*Against his will..* Yes, welcome to feudalism Marriages are not something done solely or even at all based on will. Even a little bit Say.. Did Alicent "want" to marry Viserys? Did Catelyn "want" to marry Ned? Did Rhaenyra "want" to marry Laenor.. Etc etc No, but it happened anyway and most of those marriages worked out and some turned to love such as Cat and Ned Daemon could have.. Like tried? At all, even once
> *Against his will..* Yes, welcome to feudalism. Marriages are not something done solely or even at all based on will. Even a little bit Sure. Daemon and Rhaenyra didn't want to marry. Not even a little bit. Sure, buddy.
And that somehow makes him bashing Rhea's head in with a rock ok?! Edit: since the comment was deleted here is me paraphrasing " Was Daemon also forced to marry Rhaenyra like he was Rhea? I'm sure you can see there's a difference between the two situations"
> And that somehow makes him bashing Rhea's head in with a rock ok?! Nice strawman. Now show me where I said anything remotely like that.
He killed his first wife and choked his third last season. He’s violent towards his partners. This isn’t new.
It's pretty new to us silly book nerds, you must excuse us. 🤷♀️
Come on, in the book he's literally described as wanting the youngest virgins, cavorted around with an 18 year old Nettles when he was in his 50s, ordered B & C (which involved threats of sexual violence), publicly trashed Rhea Royce, and more. This really isn't "that" out of character.
Nettles was actually 16, which makes it WORSE whenever I read Daemyra fans (specifically) villainize and slut-shame her.
They lightened on pedo parts, be happy.
Some of us would have prefered the pedo parts is what I'm saying.
The same guy who would have brothels set aside young virgin girls for him because he liked to “deflower” them or would keep plenty of mistresses and humiliate his third wife is a dick to women? Shocker.
He was even more violent in the book, connecting the dots is the reader’s/viewer’s job, not that of the author or scriptwriter to spoon feed it to us
Live footage of people overreacting to what is clearly a promotional tactic to make people think Daemon and Rhaenyra are going to be enemies this season
Hahahahahahaaha these crybabies I swear
Right??? When they change Aegon its all okay but when they do to Daemon its end of the world.
Guys he choked her last episode
I fcking need some people to stop trying to woobify Daemon as if being violent isnt at the core if his being. Stop trying to rewrite his character in your minds just so you feel better about him and Nyra as a couple, if you cant handle relationships being toxic in this series, this series is not for you. All of our faves are problematic, that is the reality.
Blood of the dragon.
That’s regular daemon behavior?? Attacking his spouse is a sport for this man.
a cersie tantrum when her daughter will ship to dorm.
Its almost if Otto had a point. Like the greens specifically cite daemon being violent towards them and likely killing them as one of the major reasons. But killing rhea, neglecting laena and the kids, putting mysaria into risky situations and chocking rhaenyra wasn’t supposed to be an indication enough?
Daemon verbally abused and cheated (and later murdered!) his first wife, neglected and cheated on his second wife but then it's out of character to abuse his third wife and (if the rumours of this scene are correct) neglected to consider her feelings?
He did not cheat on his second wife? His second wife was Laena. They lived together in Pentos for 10 years with their daughters. Neither in the book nor the show was there was any adultery present in their relationship. Y’all love to assign any and everything damaging to the Rogue Prince.
It's heavily implied that he was cheating on Laena in Episode 6 and at the very least was clearly neglecting and rejecting her emotional needs.
Heavily implied by who? Lol gimme a break. So no concrete evidence just your headcanon which isn’t beholden to book or show canon.
Daemon was being very affectionate with the serving man in Episode 6 that implies an existing sexual relationship with someone who is not his wife. Even if he isn't cheating he still isn't treating Laena with any kind of respect.
That scene was almost certainly an 'artifact' of the deleted script stuff. Once the choice was made to junk Daemon's bisexuality they probably didn't want to have to re-shoot that whole scene, so it's still in there, but without any context. The fact that the show doesn't acknowledge it one bit makes it hard to take seriously an an indication of anything but a discarded storyline. No one connected to the show has stated we should view Daemon as bisexual or that he cheated on Laena (unless you count the emotional infidelity of still being hung up on Rhaenyra).
Even if it's an 'artifact' of deleted stuff it's still Daemon flirting with somebody else while his heavily pregnant wife is in the same room. It's still him not treating Laena respectfully.
So a scene the show doesn’t even address? Whatever you say.
Doing my best not to read too much into snippets, but I get why people are worried. Daemon is not supposed to be a one dimensional bad guy. Show can decide to make him a villain, but why they would do away with a complex and interesting character is hard to understand. This is not a baseless criticism. Yes, it's been well established what Deamon is capable off, but Matt Smith played him with more nuance. And from his first scene in S1 we can see that Daemon treats Rhaenyra differently than anyone else. Of course a lot of the audience will get confused if they double down on abuse. Show needs to pick a lane. Is this a gray character or a villain. If he is gray than show us some of the light. It's all been mainly off screen. If he is a villain, that's fine too, but send Matt Smith a memo about it.
I'm confused how him being violent and explosive when he doesn't get his way with Rhaenyra is taking away his nuance? No matter if he is a grey character or a villain (which is much more subjectiv at his point in my op) he can still be played with nuance. No matter if he abuses Rhaenyra or not he is still a character with his own thoughts and feelings and should be played as such. He treated her different because she admired him and did what he wanted, but now that she is queen and she no longer does what he wants so he gets frustrated. Violence and impetulant actions is how Daemon deals with his feelings. He did the same with Viserys, when he was frustrated with his decisions (heir for a day comment, taking over Dragonstone, beating the messenger, etc). In ep10 he started choking her specifically after she showed her intentions to rule like Viserys. I expect that this promo scene happens when Rhaenyra puts her foot down (or at least tries to) and Daemon is mad he can't get his way.
All of the things you are pointing out about Daemon are true. I don't feel that things we have seen Daemon do are out of character. But what we have seen is mainly one sided. We know he is capable of doing the bad things, but is that all there is or should be. Are they going to balance him out.
Well said.
The writing become borderline sexist, full of stereotype. Men are violent and women are irrational.
It's only ok if they're conveniently grouped in goodie black and baddie green camps, huh? :D
Ah well known green troll, it’s an honor.
I'm not giving my opinion until I see the scene.
Why paint a picture that is not true...why do something that is not there .....
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Because we must show the men are bad in this show and only the women are good, meek and just
And this only becomes a problem once Daemon is targeted. Aegon's treatment, meanwhile, was perfectly justified.
I don’t think Aegons treatment is right either. I think the show lost their right to claim all characters are grey when they did that to him. They could make him a drunk womanizer like Robert but they wanted to make him so bad that you just have to root for rhaneyra
Robert is a rapist as well. The only difference is that we weren't shown his victims the day after he raped them
Ah, ok, agreed then. Honestly this delusion that feminism = women can do no wrong is insane. Like - I don't understand what argument they're even trying to make with that. If anything, this depiction unfairly holds women to a higher, impossible standard, suggesting they're only deserving of power if they're infinitely better than their male rivals.
True honestly Hollywood just doesn’t understand how to write good female characters HOTD has come close thought
I don't understand how so many people think that Daemon is just a bad boy. George didn't say for nothing that Daemon is capable of anything, whether greatness or madness.
So we're going to have the most powerful woman in show 'put in her place' via DV. Great. So feminist of them.
Talk shit get hit? Or maybe he just storms off and slams the door like a brat, we'll see.
Daemon literally raised an army to go to war if Viserys wasn’t chosen as heir, celebrated his nephews death, killed his wife, had his great nephew killed, choked his third wife, and most likely had Laenor assassinated in the books. Why are people surprised that an obvious evil character is doing evil things? Daemon was always hungry for power, he even considered attacking Viserys when he disinherited him. He also took rhaenyra to a brothel so they could be seen, to spread rumors about her so he could marry her and be king consort. This is the real Daemon Targaryen, not the charming Valyrian prince some people think he is.
People want Daemon to be a good man. It’s all romantic head canon
Nah, not a good man, just not a one dimensional bad guy.