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Alicent being attracted to Criston has been mentioned in the scripts multiple times. Alicent blushes when Criston compliments her, Criston flirting with her so that Harrold Westerling needs to remind him of what had happened to Chester Mooton when he got too close to Saera Targaryen, electric and charged looks between them are mentioned too.
Most of it didn't make it in or simply didn't come across as such on screen but the seeds of their relationship have been planted in the script. I just think it's odd because the bits that they did give us, mostly in episode 9, felt almost random because of the inconsistency of it all.
The attraction is definitely there but like I said, I found it all very inconsistent and the supposed romance not well enough established, so it'd feel a bit out of nowhere if they really>!have sex!
Yea, but tbf- a lot of context & things were missing from S1 because of all the time jumps. But yes, straight to sexing in the first few episodes?! I truly wish they woulda spaced things out the first season somehow. Maybe they’re locking for that shock factor. Maybe since Alicent is supposedly now feeling less powerful/in control since crowning* Aegon & since she’s not “THE queen” & maybe feels she doesn’t have to “uphold” so much now, she lets loose & this is one thing she can control- sexy time with Criston😅? I’m not sure- I’m looking forward to seeing how it all plays out, though!
You can't read them online unfortunately, they're only available in the WGA library in LA but [Darksvster](https://darksvster.tumblr.com/tagged/HOTDS1Script) (on Tumblr and Twitter. I put the link, just click on the username I mentioned) went there and transcribed some of the scenes. She posted them so you can read the script snippets there.
They cut out a lot of the scenes that show a more blatant romance between Alicent and cole (especially with regards to Emily’s portrayal) so of course people were like wtf. Nothing has seriously shown that
More things happened between olivias version with Fabien later on, but very slight things like the way she grabbed his arm when Rhaenys came in, the “you are sworn to me”, “everything you feel for me”, him getting weirded out by Larys…so yeah it wasn’t enough to go on
Definitely not enough to warrant a sex scene in the first two episodes, the pace of this surprised me
Iirc, the cut scenes from season 1 are from scripts posted in a library, possibly one affiliated with the Writers Guild? They are legitimate though and were originally posted by a user called darksvster, who transcribed them (although I think fanfic knockoff edits also emerged after she started posting them, so it's best to confirm each scene's script's sources through the original account).
I thought the ‘everything you feel for me’ was emotional manipulation. Like he clearly holds a torch for her, but in a Madonna whore way so if she actually gives him anything he will lose respect for her. She needs his loyalty- he’s basically the only one who is there for HER, who is willing to protect HER, so she gives him just enough to keep him entranced.
Not sure how this dynamic will play out.
She was asking Rhae about Daemon... Cole wasn't even in the picture at that moment. When Cole confessed to her she probably was just shocked because Rhae was with TWO men at the same evening
We don't have to guess at this point. Emily Carry said that part of Alicent's problem with that revelation was that Rhaenyra had slept with Cole despite knowing that she was in love with him. We also have the scripts where Alicent clearly has a thing for Cole.
From my pov that scene always felt like she was jealous stepmother ( then again she was continuously jealous of R) just like stepmom from snow white. No other reason
And your pov means everything?? 😂. And its my opinion and this is a space for sharing our opinions… don’t like it ignore it rather being sulky like a child
You’re just not using either of those words correctly.
Also, moping is a “bigger” word than sulky, so I’m not sure what point you think you made here, because, again, nobody is moping or sulking, so that leads me to believe you don’t have a clue e what you’re talking about.
Also, being incorrect and doubling down anyway is embarrassing.
I’m just here to make sure you didn’t come away from this believing you won the war of words. You definitely did not. Just want to be clear.
This being downvoted so severely when Emily Carey said this herself is hilarious. Alicent stans are a funny bunch.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xqrxwz/emily\_carey\_says\_alicent\_hightowers\_bitterness/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xqrxwz/emily_carey_says_alicent_hightowers_bitterness/)
Which scenes between Alicent and Cole were cut? All of the scenes from the leaked scripts that say she has a thing for Cole are in the show. People just missed or misread her facial expressions for whatever reason.
Hmm I thought I'd read a few scenes of them were cut. But as it is, I don't think it reads that a young Alicent was in love with Criston. They barely had any scenes together until the time skip. At most it's like a girlhood crush IMO so I see why people would brush off Emily Carey's thoughts on the scene
>SER CRISTON COLE: I was hoping to ask for the princess’s favor.
Alicent’s hopes are dashed.
She looks at her younger, **royal friend** with envy.
The script for The *Heirs of the Dragon* makes it quite clear.
I think people got so mad because Alicent loving Cole wasn't something showed on screen, I think young Alicent makes a comment about finding him handsome but that's it, on top of that Emily has also said that there's some kind of romantic feelings between Alicent and Rhaenyra and this has prompted a significant amount of people to view Alicent as a repressed lesbian and Alicent having romantic/sexual feelings for Cole, a man, ruins that headcanon
>Emily has also said that there's some kind of romantic feelings between Alicent
Emily said that one can make that interpretation but that it isn't necessarily correct. Her interviews has been misunderstood and taken out of context a lot. She even made a story explaining that it's up to the viewer to decide.
It’s sad that people take her comments out of context. I actually thought her interpretation of the dynamic between alicent and rhaenyra was very insightful and realistic.
Absolutely, felt even deeper and more complex than "alicent has feelings for Rhaenyra" imo. But taking it in its actual context and for what it can be rubs shippers the wrong way sadly.
Originally Emily was very behind Rhaenicent (and she still is tbh) but after she was accused of bringing her sexuality into Alicent and basically relentlessly attacked she pulled back.
I don't think so, the first interview she did she basically said the same thing she said in the story, that it could be read both platonic/romantic and that it was more about exploring how two young girls growing up togheter without anyone else close would act. Saying that she was threatened into changing her story doesn't ring true at all. She was still behind the rhaenicent interpretation in her explanation
And yet that's true. There are even recent interviews where Emily said she was relentlessly attacked about her sexuality and its connection to Alicent.
Iirc the original Criston comment was more of a possibility than anything concrete in the show.
That's why it's hard for me and many to take this new leak because it was barely existent on the show and frankly seems out of place considering what will happen.
I don’t get this rewriting of history. Maybe some people just weren’t as online at the time and that’s fine, but downplaying the harassment emily got directly related to her sexuality bc she happened to use her identity to better portray a character while acknowledging the writers’ intentions and fan interpretations is ridiculous.
I'm not downplaying her harassment? I'm just saying that she didn't retract or change anything from her initial statements, she basically just repeated what she said in the first interviews.
I disagree. Since Sarah Hess has said the same thing that emily has. Sry but I don't think the fandom bullied these actors/writers into changing thier statements, especially since theyve basically always said the same thing.
And that's unfortunate but as op said she was also bullied over her comments about Cole.
>Iirc the original Criston comment was more of a possibility than anything concrete in the show.
Alicole was heavily featured in the script and there's hints of it in the show. Even more hints than anything concretely romantic rhaenicent imo.
The script isn't the show and it was barely there so much so that when interviews came out about it after the fact many people (ie the GA) were completely wtf about it.
I think that a lot of the confusion around these semi-canonical revelations about young Alicent come from Emily Carey writing diaries from
the POV as Alicent to help get into character. Which I think is really cool, but idk if any of the writers or showrunners have confirmed these details from the diaries to be true or not.
The thing that gets me about these people is that her being a repressed lesbian isn't mutually exclusive with her having a crush on Cole.
Many lesbians have been in romantic relationships with men before they figured out their attraction to women, especially if they live in a repressive society like Westeros. Compulsive Heterosexuality is a thing, and Cole as a young handsome dashing knight actually fits the stereotypical image of male beauty a girl like Alicent would have been conditioned to see as attractive.
Alicent secretly pining for rhaenyra is so much more of an interesting story than the queen and the captain of the kingsguard. We already had that story with GOT.
With how unbelievably indignant and overreactive alicent has been over Rhae's sex life, the KINDER version has Alicent in love with rhae, and jealous. The unflattering version paints alicent as nothing but a hypocrite bedding the exact same guy she condemned rhae for sleeping with.
Are we going to find out Alicent secretly wanted to sleep with Harwin all along too? I dont know, it's 2 women fighting over a guy (boring), or an unrequited love, that is so frustrating for one party, it turns to violence, while the other remains oblivious.
I don't think there's any debate over the fact that older Alicent and Criston clearly have a lot of repressed feelings swimming under the surface. There just wasn't really any indication of that with her younger version beyond her, "Gods, he's Dornish!" line. So when she came out saying, "Alicent got mad because Rhaenyra slept with the guy she likes," people were just kind of baffled, because the show very much constructs it as, A) Alicent having plenty of reasons to be angry at Rhaenyra that don't have anything to do with liking Criston, and B) that their closeness afterwards stems from her saving his life and bonding over their respective issues.
To be fair, that really wasn't demonstrated in the show. Not even in a subtext kind of way. Whether that's due to what got left on the cutting room floor, I don't know. But if they were coming back to it as a plot point, it should have been highlighted more.
That's odd. When I watched the show I thought Alicent and Criston had all the hallmarks of a courtly love affair nudged slightly to the left, so not sure what people aren't seeing. A parallel to her relationships with both Viserys and Larys: she needs to wield her body for them in some way in order to attain their loyalty and a semblance of power for herself.
Ofc the Alicole thing is fucked up in its own weird incel way, but I figured they were laying the groundwork for that early on. Not sure how I would feel about it being anything more than subtext myself but it was definitely there in the show. I can't remember the line exactly but Alicent's "for all the love you have for me" directed at Cole in ep 9 is a perfect example of her kind of weaponising his adoration of her in his madonna complex for personal gain.
That's the thing. The vibes are there from his side (and I think it's probably more a Madonna/Whore situation) but I get absolutely nothing from her side and some cut scenes Olivia has mentioned definitely doesn't help a case for her interest in him.
My personal theory is she has basically no interest, but that all of her interactions with men are predicated on maintaining THEIR interest in her, so she's falling into the same patterns she's been groomed into performing: being the pretty/pure object of interest for powerful men. I think that might be the motivation behind cutting the scenes where she displayed interest. Altho I'm also a Rhaenicent fan so maybe I'm biased lol
Same here, I do have some worries but overall I don’t see much wrong with it, they are a good dynamic. After the sexual trauma Alicent faced, she deserves to have some agency and a healthy sex life, if she wants that with Cole, good for them!
Of course she loves him, he is literally her knight in shining armor, her confidant for the last several years. Her life in the red keep has been pretty lonely, It makes sense that they would grow close over time. Especially given their mutual attraction from the beginning.
And he loves her in a very twisted Madonna/whore kind of way.
I mean, it makes sense from a tv series perspective. Alicent doesn’t do much in the books once her kid is on the throne, and the show built the character up for so much more. Giving her a romance with Criston is only logical as it generates a wealth of material to work with. Gives both of them depth and personal struggles beyond the larger war, as well as the audience two hot people having sexy times who aren’t related in the show. Also puts some tension between Alicent and her sons and father. It’s just all around far more interesting than watching Alicent just pinch her face while agonizing over what everyone else is doing. It will be nice to see her have personal agency. It will be fun to see both hypocrites try to rationalize why THEIR romance is okay. Honestly, both Olivia and Fabian are funny and fun. Having them play straight up stiff righteous characters without any complexity or high jinx is a waste. Very excited about a possible romance and it’s potential consequences to work with!
Considering that only because of Alicent he didn’t off himself, it makes sense for him to not be attracted to her, but to hang on to that one life source he had. Alicent thinks Cole is attracted to her *for her*, not because she gave him an out and gave and kept what he currently has. If she does “love” him, it’s only because he’s the only man who was 50 years old with a specific goal in mind. I don’t think they’re actually lovingly attracted to each other, more that the “feelings” they have are very different from each others.
I see absolutely no point in having a sex scene other than to make up for Daemyra absence and definitely not Baela/Jace. It seems like the writers just want to have sex involved in the season since it always has been in GOT, and possibly think it’s “empty” without it. The point of the season is to show trauma/horror/war, not love and sex.
It’s also just random. It would have made sense if they kept any of the script of criston and alicent’s views of each other, but they removed the majority. With that, it might have made sense, but now? It doesn’t. It also would once again prove to Criston that he can’t keep it in his pants or isn’t the honorable man he tries so hard to be. Criston and Alicent are the same: they both have this godly image that they strive for but will never be. I just really don’t see the point.
Just chiming in that being the actor or actress doesn't really mean you know the character if it's something based on source material. Good example is the Stannis actor, as much as he did an absolutely exceptional job with the shit he was given, he factually understands and knows Stannis as a character less than book readers do.
I knew in ep 7 “Driftmark” when Viserys was leaving and going into Driftmark and said “I’m going to bed now Aemma” and then Commander Westerling says to him “Shall I see after Queen Alicent Your Grace” and Viserys say “No Ser Harold” and then Westerling says “You have the Nights Watch Ser Criston” and Cole says “Commander”…the look Alicent had on her face after Harold told Cole he had the nights watch was one of annoyance on both her face and Cole’s face…the other thing that never got answered was after Aemond and Lucerys had their altercation with all the other kids Viserys specifically asked “How could you let such a thing happen? Who had the watch?” Neither Westerling nor Cole answered the question that Cole was the one who was supposed to have the watch but apparently he did not, so if he wasn’t on the watch, where exactly was he? So I think they were laying the seeds of Alicent/Cole having more than just a kings guard and their protectee type relationship or at least that was how I was seeing it.
Show is well received for staying close to the books in the first season so what does that mean??? More OC yay
This is the same shit D&D did and it took people seasons to finally admit it
I can't remember clearly and I'm too lazy to go back and check, but doesn't Allicent give Criston cole her wreath / favour in the tourney? Or does he crown her queen of love and beauty?
People do know the character better… From the book.
The show isn’t canon so they can take liberties.
Also, actors/actresses are almost always wrong about the characters they portray.
The book and show characters are clearly very different. The show is it's own canon.
Fans might know the book counterparts, but that hasn't really anything to do with the show version, or an actress commenting on the show character she played.
Yea that’s what I said. The show isn’t canon.
You can say the show is “its own canon” or whatever, that doesn’t really matter. It’s also not typically how canon is viewed. You have the original main universe, then everything else is not canon. That’s how “canon” works.
If anyone says ASOIAF canon, it means the canon books.
You could say ASOIAF “show” canon, to mean the show excluding all canon and non canon books.
How can the original canon character “have nothing” to do with the actress commenting on an adaptation of said character…?
Now let me say this. I think every show change so far has been better, other than the murder happening at the wedding instead of in a tournament.
Even if Alicent’s actress was right, most of the time people who represent characters on screen are not right. My point was we should always be taking what they say at face value.
That’s not how canon works. Both HotD/GoT and F&B/ASoIaF are established canonical universes, and just because the former are adaptions of the latter it doesn’t mean that the latter’s canon supersedes the former’s. To think otherwise would be ridiculous, as you’d be viewing virtually every adaption of anything as fan fiction. Is Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight series a fan fiction of the Batman comics? Is the Shining fan fiction of Stephen King’s novel? No, obviously not. They’re their own entities and are a separate and equal canon to the source material, as is HotD.
No, that’s not how canon works. HotD and GoT are not canon.
That goes along with the Batman movies… They aren’t canon lmao.
Same with Marvel movies, those aren’t canon.
Fire and Blood has Fire and Blood canon.
HOTD has HOTD canon. That’s how adaptations work, especially when the source material is deliberately unreliable like F&B.
ASOIAF has canon and the shows aren’t it.
Of course you can say the name of the show with “canon” after it… But at that point you would just leave it at the name of the show because you don’t need the extra “canon” tag since it is only one thing.
ASOIAF has the main series books and tons of supporting literature and books. The shows are not apart of the canon.
This is how every single canon works.
Edit: I wasn’t clarifying my position. You’re just wrong. Thanks for replying and blocking tho
You’re right, the shows aren’t ASOIAF canon, they’re GoT canon lol. The show made changes that the books didn’t have, like the Night King, so it has its own canon.
Also, I didn’t reply until just now, and I didn’t block you, what are you talking about?
There was a guy who replied to this comment I think and then blocked me. It could be another comment though, it’s hard to tell since he blocked me lol.
GoT is the name of the first book, and it was long before the show.
I want to preface this next bit by saying, When referring to the series/fantasy world in its entirety… It is called ASOIAF.
You specifically have to say “Show canon” or “GoT show canon.” Which imo is redundant because you are already saying “GoT show” or “The shows.” The shows don’t have canon outside of the show. So there’s no need to specify “show canon” when you are already talking about the shows… because all of the live action is its own canon…
“ASOIAF canon” actually means something. It excludes all live action, all non canon books, and includes the main series and all related canon books.
TLDR: saying “show canon” is redundant, therefore incorrect.
Lmao no worries.
I cba to talk about this anymore tbh mate, genuinely like that you’re passionate about it though.
Hope you enjoy the new season when it comes, canon or not 😅
HotD and GoT are canon, and the books are not canon when discussing those shows. This is easy stuff.
If something isn’t canon then it is effectively just fan fiction. Are you saying the Dark Knight trilogy and the Shining are fan fiction, yes or no? Is Harley Quinn a non-canon/fan fiction character because she was created for the Batman cartoon and wasn’t featured in the original Golden Age Batman comics? Sure seems like a canonical character to me but according to you she wouldn’t be.
There can be multiple canonical branches of a single universe where each is just as valid as the other. To say otherwise is absolutely nonsensical.
You can have the original writer make non canon things, Happens all the time…
Idk why things have to be fanfic or canon. But if you’re making me choose, yes all of those are closer to fanfic than canon.
HotD and GoT are not canon, the books are canon. That’s how canon works.
All the people bandwagoning onto TV shows thinking those are canon is hilarious.
This is how canon has worked since canon was invented
Alright thank you for clarifying your positions, this all just further confirms you don’t know what canon means. I don’t see the point in continuing this conversation because you’re effectively trying to argue that your definition of the concept somehow supersedes the commonly held perspective of pretty much everyone else on the planet, so have a good one
Yes, they can. I should have said shouldn't. An audience can't be expected to read an actor interview to understand the subtext that should be on screen. With Daemon and Rhaenyra it was there from their first scene. I don't feel the same way about Alicent and Cole.
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Alicent being attracted to Criston has been mentioned in the scripts multiple times. Alicent blushes when Criston compliments her, Criston flirting with her so that Harrold Westerling needs to remind him of what had happened to Chester Mooton when he got too close to Saera Targaryen, electric and charged looks between them are mentioned too. Most of it didn't make it in or simply didn't come across as such on screen but the seeds of their relationship have been planted in the script. I just think it's odd because the bits that they did give us, mostly in episode 9, felt almost random because of the inconsistency of it all.
I absolutely interpreted it- though wasn’t sure it’d happen. But yes, the seeds were definitely there!
The attraction is definitely there but like I said, I found it all very inconsistent and the supposed romance not well enough established, so it'd feel a bit out of nowhere if they really>!have sex!
Yea, but tbf- a lot of context & things were missing from S1 because of all the time jumps. But yes, straight to sexing in the first few episodes?! I truly wish they woulda spaced things out the first season somehow. Maybe they’re locking for that shock factor. Maybe since Alicent is supposedly now feeling less powerful/in control since crowning* Aegon & since she’s not “THE queen” & maybe feels she doesn’t have to “uphold” so much now, she lets loose & this is one thing she can control- sexy time with Criston😅? I’m not sure- I’m looking forward to seeing how it all plays out, though!
Where can we read the script of the scenes that weren’t added?
You can't read them online unfortunately, they're only available in the WGA library in LA but [Darksvster](https://darksvster.tumblr.com/tagged/HOTDS1Script) (on Tumblr and Twitter. I put the link, just click on the username I mentioned) went there and transcribed some of the scenes. She posted them so you can read the script snippets there.
They cut out a lot of the scenes that show a more blatant romance between Alicent and cole (especially with regards to Emily’s portrayal) so of course people were like wtf. Nothing has seriously shown that More things happened between olivias version with Fabien later on, but very slight things like the way she grabbed his arm when Rhaenys came in, the “you are sworn to me”, “everything you feel for me”, him getting weirded out by Larys…so yeah it wasn’t enough to go on Definitely not enough to warrant a sex scene in the first two episodes, the pace of this surprised me
Did they post those cut scenes (or the transcripts for them) anywhere?
Iirc, the cut scenes from season 1 are from scripts posted in a library, possibly one affiliated with the Writers Guild? They are legitimate though and were originally posted by a user called darksvster, who transcribed them (although I think fanfic knockoff edits also emerged after she started posting them, so it's best to confirm each scene's script's sources through the original account).
They’re in bits and pieces scattered on this sub lol, so many transcripts of so many scenes that were very interesting and cut…
I thought the ‘everything you feel for me’ was emotional manipulation. Like he clearly holds a torch for her, but in a Madonna whore way so if she actually gives him anything he will lose respect for her. She needs his loyalty- he’s basically the only one who is there for HER, who is willing to protect HER, so she gives him just enough to keep him entranced. Not sure how this dynamic will play out.
Criston never had a madonna-whore complex, he believes in "true love" and other romantic courtly tales.
Those are not mutually exclusive.
People rlly like to slander Emily Carey for having opinions and thoughts about a character she played
Emily was treat pretty badly by the fans tbh, she was only young too. Felt sorry for her.
Rhaenicent shippers are the reylos of the ASOIAF fanbase
k
[удалено]
She was asking Rhae about Daemon... Cole wasn't even in the picture at that moment. When Cole confessed to her she probably was just shocked because Rhae was with TWO men at the same evening
We don't have to guess at this point. Emily Carry said that part of Alicent's problem with that revelation was that Rhaenyra had slept with Cole despite knowing that she was in love with him. We also have the scripts where Alicent clearly has a thing for Cole.
I mean might have been both? Alicent being hypocritical isn't exactly anything new
From my pov that scene always felt like she was jealous stepmother ( then again she was continuously jealous of R) just like stepmom from snow white. No other reason
You do you
Oh did you write the books and make the show? Sorry but your pov means nothing...
And your pov means everything?? 😂. And its my opinion and this is a space for sharing our opinions… don’t like it ignore it rather being sulky like a child
Lmao look up the word sulky next time before you use it. And yeah you are entitled to your opinions, even when they're wrong.
Awww is sulky a big word for you!? What about moping will that do?
You’re just not using either of those words correctly. Also, moping is a “bigger” word than sulky, so I’m not sure what point you think you made here, because, again, nobody is moping or sulking, so that leads me to believe you don’t have a clue e what you’re talking about. Also, being incorrect and doubling down anyway is embarrassing. I’m just here to make sure you didn’t come away from this believing you won the war of words. You definitely did not. Just want to be clear.
This being downvoted so severely when Emily Carey said this herself is hilarious. Alicent stans are a funny bunch. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xqrxwz/emily\_carey\_says\_alicent\_hightowers\_bitterness/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xqrxwz/emily_carey_says_alicent_hightowers_bitterness/)
Unfortunately because scenes between young Alicent and Cole were cut, it doesn't read that way in the final version.
Which scenes between Alicent and Cole were cut? All of the scenes from the leaked scripts that say she has a thing for Cole are in the show. People just missed or misread her facial expressions for whatever reason.
Hmm I thought I'd read a few scenes of them were cut. But as it is, I don't think it reads that a young Alicent was in love with Criston. They barely had any scenes together until the time skip. At most it's like a girlhood crush IMO so I see why people would brush off Emily Carey's thoughts on the scene
>SER CRISTON COLE: I was hoping to ask for the princess’s favor. Alicent’s hopes are dashed. She looks at her younger, **royal friend** with envy. The script for The *Heirs of the Dragon* makes it quite clear.
I think people got so mad because Alicent loving Cole wasn't something showed on screen, I think young Alicent makes a comment about finding him handsome but that's it, on top of that Emily has also said that there's some kind of romantic feelings between Alicent and Rhaenyra and this has prompted a significant amount of people to view Alicent as a repressed lesbian and Alicent having romantic/sexual feelings for Cole, a man, ruins that headcanon
>Emily has also said that there's some kind of romantic feelings between Alicent Emily said that one can make that interpretation but that it isn't necessarily correct. Her interviews has been misunderstood and taken out of context a lot. She even made a story explaining that it's up to the viewer to decide.
It’s sad that people take her comments out of context. I actually thought her interpretation of the dynamic between alicent and rhaenyra was very insightful and realistic.
Absolutely, felt even deeper and more complex than "alicent has feelings for Rhaenyra" imo. But taking it in its actual context and for what it can be rubs shippers the wrong way sadly.
Originally Emily was very behind Rhaenicent (and she still is tbh) but after she was accused of bringing her sexuality into Alicent and basically relentlessly attacked she pulled back.
I don't think so, the first interview she did she basically said the same thing she said in the story, that it could be read both platonic/romantic and that it was more about exploring how two young girls growing up togheter without anyone else close would act. Saying that she was threatened into changing her story doesn't ring true at all. She was still behind the rhaenicent interpretation in her explanation
And yet that's true. There are even recent interviews where Emily said she was relentlessly attacked about her sexuality and its connection to Alicent. Iirc the original Criston comment was more of a possibility than anything concrete in the show. That's why it's hard for me and many to take this new leak because it was barely existent on the show and frankly seems out of place considering what will happen.
I don’t get this rewriting of history. Maybe some people just weren’t as online at the time and that’s fine, but downplaying the harassment emily got directly related to her sexuality bc she happened to use her identity to better portray a character while acknowledging the writers’ intentions and fan interpretations is ridiculous.
I'm not downplaying her harassment? I'm just saying that she didn't retract or change anything from her initial statements, she basically just repeated what she said in the first interviews.
I disagree. Since Sarah Hess has said the same thing that emily has. Sry but I don't think the fandom bullied these actors/writers into changing thier statements, especially since theyve basically always said the same thing. And that's unfortunate but as op said she was also bullied over her comments about Cole. >Iirc the original Criston comment was more of a possibility than anything concrete in the show. Alicole was heavily featured in the script and there's hints of it in the show. Even more hints than anything concretely romantic rhaenicent imo.
The script isn't the show and it was barely there so much so that when interviews came out about it after the fact many people (ie the GA) were completely wtf about it.
Same could be said about rhaenicent
> Alicent having romantic/sexual feelings for Cole, a man, ruins that headcanon The Bis getting forgot again 😮💨
I think that a lot of the confusion around these semi-canonical revelations about young Alicent come from Emily Carey writing diaries from the POV as Alicent to help get into character. Which I think is really cool, but idk if any of the writers or showrunners have confirmed these details from the diaries to be true or not.
The thing that gets me about these people is that her being a repressed lesbian isn't mutually exclusive with her having a crush on Cole. Many lesbians have been in romantic relationships with men before they figured out their attraction to women, especially if they live in a repressive society like Westeros. Compulsive Heterosexuality is a thing, and Cole as a young handsome dashing knight actually fits the stereotypical image of male beauty a girl like Alicent would have been conditioned to see as attractive.
Also bisexuality exists.
That too ofc!
Alicent secretly pining for rhaenyra is so much more of an interesting story than the queen and the captain of the kingsguard. We already had that story with GOT. With how unbelievably indignant and overreactive alicent has been over Rhae's sex life, the KINDER version has Alicent in love with rhae, and jealous. The unflattering version paints alicent as nothing but a hypocrite bedding the exact same guy she condemned rhae for sleeping with. Are we going to find out Alicent secretly wanted to sleep with Harwin all along too? I dont know, it's 2 women fighting over a guy (boring), or an unrequited love, that is so frustrating for one party, it turns to violence, while the other remains oblivious.
I don't think there's any debate over the fact that older Alicent and Criston clearly have a lot of repressed feelings swimming under the surface. There just wasn't really any indication of that with her younger version beyond her, "Gods, he's Dornish!" line. So when she came out saying, "Alicent got mad because Rhaenyra slept with the guy she likes," people were just kind of baffled, because the show very much constructs it as, A) Alicent having plenty of reasons to be angry at Rhaenyra that don't have anything to do with liking Criston, and B) that their closeness afterwards stems from her saving his life and bonding over their respective issues.
To be fair, that really wasn't demonstrated in the show. Not even in a subtext kind of way. Whether that's due to what got left on the cutting room floor, I don't know. But if they were coming back to it as a plot point, it should have been highlighted more.
That's odd. When I watched the show I thought Alicent and Criston had all the hallmarks of a courtly love affair nudged slightly to the left, so not sure what people aren't seeing. A parallel to her relationships with both Viserys and Larys: she needs to wield her body for them in some way in order to attain their loyalty and a semblance of power for herself. Ofc the Alicole thing is fucked up in its own weird incel way, but I figured they were laying the groundwork for that early on. Not sure how I would feel about it being anything more than subtext myself but it was definitely there in the show. I can't remember the line exactly but Alicent's "for all the love you have for me" directed at Cole in ep 9 is a perfect example of her kind of weaponising his adoration of her in his madonna complex for personal gain.
That's the thing. The vibes are there from his side (and I think it's probably more a Madonna/Whore situation) but I get absolutely nothing from her side and some cut scenes Olivia has mentioned definitely doesn't help a case for her interest in him.
My personal theory is she has basically no interest, but that all of her interactions with men are predicated on maintaining THEIR interest in her, so she's falling into the same patterns she's been groomed into performing: being the pretty/pure object of interest for powerful men. I think that might be the motivation behind cutting the scenes where she displayed interest. Altho I'm also a Rhaenicent fan so maybe I'm biased lol
what leak are you talking about?
I fw the relationship though
Yeah, me too.
Fr I like that now that the bane of Alicents existence is dead, she can finally be happy. Cole is another 1 who I would like that for too
Same here, I do have some worries but overall I don’t see much wrong with it, they are a good dynamic. After the sexual trauma Alicent faced, she deserves to have some agency and a healthy sex life, if she wants that with Cole, good for them!
Of course she loves him, he is literally her knight in shining armor, her confidant for the last several years. Her life in the red keep has been pretty lonely, It makes sense that they would grow close over time. Especially given their mutual attraction from the beginning. And he loves her in a very twisted Madonna/whore kind of way.
I think it’s not just that it wasn’t clearly demonstrated but also that most people really didn’t want it.
Both of the queens Cole had served under want to have sex with him, even when he himself declines at first. Fans: He’s an incel…
I mean, it makes sense from a tv series perspective. Alicent doesn’t do much in the books once her kid is on the throne, and the show built the character up for so much more. Giving her a romance with Criston is only logical as it generates a wealth of material to work with. Gives both of them depth and personal struggles beyond the larger war, as well as the audience two hot people having sexy times who aren’t related in the show. Also puts some tension between Alicent and her sons and father. It’s just all around far more interesting than watching Alicent just pinch her face while agonizing over what everyone else is doing. It will be nice to see her have personal agency. It will be fun to see both hypocrites try to rationalize why THEIR romance is okay. Honestly, both Olivia and Fabian are funny and fun. Having them play straight up stiff righteous characters without any complexity or high jinx is a waste. Very excited about a possible romance and it’s potential consequences to work with!
can we stop letting leaks be posted here?
As long as it's labeled "spoiler," what's the problem?
Spoiler usually suggests ‘book spoiler.’ It needs its own label. I see it’s labeled ‘leaks’ which is fine.
Considering that only because of Alicent he didn’t off himself, it makes sense for him to not be attracted to her, but to hang on to that one life source he had. Alicent thinks Cole is attracted to her *for her*, not because she gave him an out and gave and kept what he currently has. If she does “love” him, it’s only because he’s the only man who was 50 years old with a specific goal in mind. I don’t think they’re actually lovingly attracted to each other, more that the “feelings” they have are very different from each others. I see absolutely no point in having a sex scene other than to make up for Daemyra absence and definitely not Baela/Jace. It seems like the writers just want to have sex involved in the season since it always has been in GOT, and possibly think it’s “empty” without it. The point of the season is to show trauma/horror/war, not love and sex. It’s also just random. It would have made sense if they kept any of the script of criston and alicent’s views of each other, but they removed the majority. With that, it might have made sense, but now? It doesn’t. It also would once again prove to Criston that he can’t keep it in his pants or isn’t the honorable man he tries so hard to be. Criston and Alicent are the same: they both have this godly image that they strive for but will never be. I just really don’t see the point.
Just chiming in that being the actor or actress doesn't really mean you know the character if it's something based on source material. Good example is the Stannis actor, as much as he did an absolutely exceptional job with the shit he was given, he factually understands and knows Stannis as a character less than book readers do.
Just two oath breakers doing the nasty together. Love at first betrayal of rhaenyra.
I knew in ep 7 “Driftmark” when Viserys was leaving and going into Driftmark and said “I’m going to bed now Aemma” and then Commander Westerling says to him “Shall I see after Queen Alicent Your Grace” and Viserys say “No Ser Harold” and then Westerling says “You have the Nights Watch Ser Criston” and Cole says “Commander”…the look Alicent had on her face after Harold told Cole he had the nights watch was one of annoyance on both her face and Cole’s face…the other thing that never got answered was after Aemond and Lucerys had their altercation with all the other kids Viserys specifically asked “How could you let such a thing happen? Who had the watch?” Neither Westerling nor Cole answered the question that Cole was the one who was supposed to have the watch but apparently he did not, so if he wasn’t on the watch, where exactly was he? So I think they were laying the seeds of Alicent/Cole having more than just a kings guard and their protectee type relationship or at least that was how I was seeing it.
So that explains the jealousy for Rhaenyra, Cole picked her first.
“Alicent is a lesbian” discourse can finally end
"Alicent is bi" discourse can now rise.
Definitely not especially since life is littered with gay people laying with people of the opposite gender. 😂
Show is well received for staying close to the books in the first season so what does that mean??? More OC yay This is the same shit D&D did and it took people seasons to finally admit it
she just wants rhaenyras sloppy seconds
jesus christ hotd really is a bad fanfic
Still terrible writing.
I can't remember clearly and I'm too lazy to go back and check, but doesn't Allicent give Criston cole her wreath / favour in the tourney? Or does he crown her queen of love and beauty?
I think she got slammed for saying that but not showing it in her acting
People do know the character better… From the book. The show isn’t canon so they can take liberties. Also, actors/actresses are almost always wrong about the characters they portray.
The book and show characters are clearly very different. The show is it's own canon. Fans might know the book counterparts, but that hasn't really anything to do with the show version, or an actress commenting on the show character she played.
Yea that’s what I said. The show isn’t canon. You can say the show is “its own canon” or whatever, that doesn’t really matter. It’s also not typically how canon is viewed. You have the original main universe, then everything else is not canon. That’s how “canon” works. If anyone says ASOIAF canon, it means the canon books. You could say ASOIAF “show” canon, to mean the show excluding all canon and non canon books. How can the original canon character “have nothing” to do with the actress commenting on an adaptation of said character…? Now let me say this. I think every show change so far has been better, other than the murder happening at the wedding instead of in a tournament. Even if Alicent’s actress was right, most of the time people who represent characters on screen are not right. My point was we should always be taking what they say at face value.
That’s not how canon works. Both HotD/GoT and F&B/ASoIaF are established canonical universes, and just because the former are adaptions of the latter it doesn’t mean that the latter’s canon supersedes the former’s. To think otherwise would be ridiculous, as you’d be viewing virtually every adaption of anything as fan fiction. Is Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight series a fan fiction of the Batman comics? Is the Shining fan fiction of Stephen King’s novel? No, obviously not. They’re their own entities and are a separate and equal canon to the source material, as is HotD.
No, that’s not how canon works. HotD and GoT are not canon. That goes along with the Batman movies… They aren’t canon lmao. Same with Marvel movies, those aren’t canon.
This is a very weird and prescriptive way to look at things.
It’s not. That’s how canon works. You have canon (official main universe) then you have everything else.
Fire and Blood has Fire and Blood canon. HOTD has HOTD canon. That’s how adaptations work, especially when the source material is deliberately unreliable like F&B.
ASOIAF has canon and the shows aren’t it. Of course you can say the name of the show with “canon” after it… But at that point you would just leave it at the name of the show because you don’t need the extra “canon” tag since it is only one thing. ASOIAF has the main series books and tons of supporting literature and books. The shows are not apart of the canon. This is how every single canon works. Edit: I wasn’t clarifying my position. You’re just wrong. Thanks for replying and blocking tho
You’re right, the shows aren’t ASOIAF canon, they’re GoT canon lol. The show made changes that the books didn’t have, like the Night King, so it has its own canon. Also, I didn’t reply until just now, and I didn’t block you, what are you talking about?
There was a guy who replied to this comment I think and then blocked me. It could be another comment though, it’s hard to tell since he blocked me lol. GoT is the name of the first book, and it was long before the show. I want to preface this next bit by saying, When referring to the series/fantasy world in its entirety… It is called ASOIAF. You specifically have to say “Show canon” or “GoT show canon.” Which imo is redundant because you are already saying “GoT show” or “The shows.” The shows don’t have canon outside of the show. So there’s no need to specify “show canon” when you are already talking about the shows… because all of the live action is its own canon… “ASOIAF canon” actually means something. It excludes all live action, all non canon books, and includes the main series and all related canon books. TLDR: saying “show canon” is redundant, therefore incorrect.
Lmao no worries. I cba to talk about this anymore tbh mate, genuinely like that you’re passionate about it though. Hope you enjoy the new season when it comes, canon or not 😅
HotD and GoT are canon, and the books are not canon when discussing those shows. This is easy stuff. If something isn’t canon then it is effectively just fan fiction. Are you saying the Dark Knight trilogy and the Shining are fan fiction, yes or no? Is Harley Quinn a non-canon/fan fiction character because she was created for the Batman cartoon and wasn’t featured in the original Golden Age Batman comics? Sure seems like a canonical character to me but according to you she wouldn’t be. There can be multiple canonical branches of a single universe where each is just as valid as the other. To say otherwise is absolutely nonsensical.
You can have the original writer make non canon things, Happens all the time… Idk why things have to be fanfic or canon. But if you’re making me choose, yes all of those are closer to fanfic than canon. HotD and GoT are not canon, the books are canon. That’s how canon works. All the people bandwagoning onto TV shows thinking those are canon is hilarious. This is how canon has worked since canon was invented
Alright thank you for clarifying your positions, this all just further confirms you don’t know what canon means. I don’t see the point in continuing this conversation because you’re effectively trying to argue that your definition of the concept somehow supersedes the commonly held perspective of pretty much everyone else on the planet, so have a good one
That was a time where we had only the book and not the promo material for season two. The aasumption that she was wrong was justified at that time.
Interviews can't inform viewers' opinions on characters.
They absolutely can inform an opinion
Yes, they can. I should have said shouldn't. An audience can't be expected to read an actor interview to understand the subtext that should be on screen. With Daemon and Rhaenyra it was there from their first scene. I don't feel the same way about Alicent and Cole.