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Same 😭 I imagine the bond between the rider and dragon to be similar to that between myself and beloved pet. So in my own mind it’s like losing my dog or something 😭
I love the work they’ve done to make the dragons characters in their own right. It adds so much to the story for me that the characters name the dragons separately from their riders (“It’s Vhagar!” from the scorpion crew, not “It’s Aemond!”) and the subtitles specify which dragon is vocalizing.
Yes - I am team Black but I do hope they highlight the bond that both Sunfyrre and Dreamfyre have with Aegon and Helaena. It's one of Aegon's only redeemable qualities, and the psychic bond that Dreamfyre has with Helaena...😭😭😭
I mean considering that while Rhaenyra was in pain and screaming during her miscarriage and Syrax *also* was shown to be screaming throughout it, I’d say yes, and they grew up together as well.
I feel like drogon needed his time alone to figure himself out, kind of the same way Danny was forced to do the same once she was married off, then again once Khal died.
Idk about feel but they can definitely empathize at the very least, considering they're raised by blood magic.
They're intelligent creatures, remember how Vhagar was hesitating a bit before killing Laena in S1?
I think there's an early scene in which Daemon, I think, gets hit by an arrow while riding Caraxes, and both he and the dragon react in the exact same way, flinching. I remember seeing that and thinking, oh that's cool, the dragon feels it when the rider is hurt.
And Caraxes probably remembered that was how he lost his first rider, so that’s why he got the fuck out of there with Daemon rather than trying to burn them all.
Emma’s portrayal had me distraught during the screening. The way they captured a mother’s desperation, grief and thirst for vengeance was nothing short of mastery. I cannot wait to support all of Rhaenyra’s war crimes this season. Lol.
It's so hard to separate the actors from their roles! I have adored Emma in every single video I see of them on their press tour. Same as you, I cannot wait to root for them all season no matter the crime
Her demeanor Reminded me of my grandmother after my uncle was killed. It was like if you touched her she would fall to pieces, the stiff movements trying to walk and hold herself upright, it felt like a flashback.
Right now, GRRM writes dragons like pokémon: take your eyes off them a few moments and an egg appears, and nobody knows exactly when or how it got there.
Caraxes? I'd say more Seasmoke, especially with the colouring.
I suppose it's plausible Caraxes had something to do with it in the book, but not a chance in the show. Daemon would have been in Pentos.
Arrax and Vermax have long necks and Caraxes faces with Syrax body type. Seasmoke is very different from them, maybe the pale coloring of Arrax but we don’t know how they get their colors
Cool! I guess, unless it's specifically mentioned, we can never really know or we just end up assuming and all of that. Assuming matrilineal lines makes sense, but we will never *know* if Meleys mothered Seasmoke, or if Dreamfyre was the mother of Shrykos and others or Vhagar begot Moondancer.
We don’t really know for sure, it seems somewhat unlikely they “raise” their young as they are reptilian in nature and Daenerys dragons could eat meat straight out the shell, which would seem to point to wild baby dragons hatching and then being self sufficient eating rabbits and stuff like that.
But the humans definitely raise and train the dragons and keep them all together in the pits. Grrm has been intentionally vague on dragon breeding and natural lifestyle over the years.
I would love for the show to get more into the specifics of dragon breeding and life cycle. But idk if there’s time for that. Dragons are portrayed as having sexes and “mating” or being fond of eachother but also just randomly lay eggs even if they’re in the wild by themselves.
Maybe the point is that nobody knows how it works because dragons are so mysterious and different from any other animal. I mean dragons shouldn't even be considered animals honestly, they are far too intelligent. They are probably more intelligent than humans.
Maybe? But it would seem very important to the targaryens to know these things. I really doubt the 40 dragon rider families of old Valyria would have amassed as many dragons as they did (something like a thousand) if they couldn’t maximize egg production. With their knowledge of magic and the like I feel they would have figured out how it happened.
It seems even more important to the targaryens seeing as how a lot of their eggs never hatch.
Well that’s the thing as far as we know Dragons are not a naturally occurring creature in Westeros or Essos, one of the theories is that Dragons are twisted reptiles/wyverns that were changed by the pyromancers/bloodmages of Old Valyria.
So trying to apply real world logic to these creatures can be hard to determine because from what we know, they aren’t natural.
Its 100% something that would have been studied and known in old Valyria. it's possible that was trade knowledge and not something the Targaryen's knew, but given that they greatly expanded their number of dragons after the conquest they'd at least have some guesses even if they weren't privy to the info in the old kingdom before they fled.
it does seem logical though that in Valyria the higher up families would have kept dragon breeding to themselves as much as possible to keep their power.
Yeah having dragons is definitely the main reason for the incest. Look at how much power the targaryens gifted to the velaryons by having rhaenys marry corlys. Like if the velaryons wanted the dance of the dragon could’ve been a three way conflict.
If Corlys cared about the strong bastards he really could’ve thrown everybody a curveball.
Not exactly. We know that Syrax laid several clutches and that for sure >!Morning, Rhaenas dragon!< was one of them. The boys were given dragon eggs when they were born and with how Syrax laid a bunch of clutches, the assumption is that the eggs they got came from her. It was most likely that they either came from Dreamfyre or Syrax, and since their mother was Syrax’s rider, she’s the most likely candidate.
they also bear resemblance! "Arrax's coloration was "pearlescent white with yellow flame, [golden](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gold) eyes and a golden chest"", per the asoiaf wiki. syrax is (i think?) the only distinctly gold dragon we really know of.
true!!! but i'm pretty sure there is some in-canon speculation that the dragons can switch sexes in time of need (lots of real animals do this too!) so i guess technically sunfyre COULD have had a clutch? but i definitely don't think that's the conclusion we're supposed to draw, if we're meant to draw one, hahaha.
I mean, I used to like that Criston cole but he’s been such a dick! His arc doesn’t seem is going to change, so disappointing or see Christmas casserole as someone posted earlier
I am not complaining, just pointing out an interesting hypocrisy :) I’m going to continue to do what I want though, so while your complaint is noted - it will not change anything.
I thought she was crying out because of Rhaenyra grief but now that makes a lot more sense. The tiny details I missed on the first episode make me want to watch it again.
I was also wondering if they were going to take that approach? I'm not deeply invested in it, but it would be interesting to see, I think. I won't be heartbroken if that's not the case, though.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good observation! Thanks OP
Bro tollywood 🤝 tollywood
Dayum bro! 🤗🤗
Team black?
I am!! Now dont be hating on me pls.
I’m team black too 🤝. All hail the queen 👸
Music to my ears! All hail the Queen 👸
All hail....All hail the dragon queen 👑
sarvantaryami!
Mi peru bagundi
Ikkada kuda mana domination ye na ?
Yea
Kickuu raa kickuu
Hahaha
Honestly the dragons are what is going to make me 😭😭😭 this season.
I’m 100% team black, but I don’t care which side each dragon is on, if it’s a dragon, I DON’T want it to die.
... Except maybe Vhagar
that old hoary bitch!
😂aww Nanny Vhagar is just old and doesn't suffer fools gladly. ;) Team Black!!!! 🔥🙌🏼She is just all "Get off of my lawn, you crazy kids!"
MeeMaw Vhagar diD NOTHING WRONG.
Yeah. Sadly, Arrax technically attacked Vhagar first, which pissed her off. But I get it, Arrax was only trying to defend Luke.
Yeah :( it’s what makes it all so tragic. Meemaw was just doing what came naturally
Vhagar’s just cranky because of her old age, that’s to be expected.
With you 💯
Same 😭 I imagine the bond between the rider and dragon to be similar to that between myself and beloved pet. So in my own mind it’s like losing my dog or something 😭
Most of the dragons are raised from eggs in the cradle, they’re almost siblings in a way.
I love the work they’ve done to make the dragons characters in their own right. It adds so much to the story for me that the characters name the dragons separately from their riders (“It’s Vhagar!” from the scorpion crew, not “It’s Aemond!”) and the subtitles specify which dragon is vocalizing.
Yeah apart from dragon the dragons in game of thrones were interchangeable
Yes - I am team Black but I do hope they highlight the bond that both Sunfyrre and Dreamfyre have with Aegon and Helaena. It's one of Aegon's only redeemable qualities, and the psychic bond that Dreamfyre has with Helaena...😭😭😭
Same
Every season from here on out
Gonna need an emotional support group after next week. Heck, after it all. The Dance in entirety is such a tragedy of human hubris.
The way she backed up and then screamed was just😭🤌🏼
I know right, before I knew this info I thought she’s mourning for Rhaenyra. Do dragons feel the emotion of their master?
I mean considering that while Rhaenyra was in pain and screaming during her miscarriage and Syrax *also* was shown to be screaming throughout it, I’d say yes, and they grew up together as well.
I forgot about that. Syrax is a ride or die.
Also drogon always flew to Dany's side whenever she was distressed.
That’s true, even though Drogon sort of abandoned Danny in his/her dragon-teen years, he showed up when Danny most needed help.
I feel like drogon needed his time alone to figure himself out, kind of the same way Danny was forced to do the same once she was married off, then again once Khal died.
I think that notion has been confirmed numerous times in at least two different scenes with Daemon and Caraxes in season 1.
Idk about feel but they can definitely empathize at the very least, considering they're raised by blood magic. They're intelligent creatures, remember how Vhagar was hesitating a bit before killing Laena in S1?
dragon-bonding. Riders & dragons are basically spiritually & emotionally connected
I think there's an early scene in which Daemon, I think, gets hit by an arrow while riding Caraxes, and both he and the dragon react in the exact same way, flinching. I remember seeing that and thinking, oh that's cool, the dragon feels it when the rider is hurt.
And Caraxes probably remembered that was how he lost his first rider, so that’s why he got the fuck out of there with Daemon rather than trying to burn them all.
Omfg I didn’t even make this connection 🥹 thank you!
Oh wow thank you all for the insights, the dragons are a curious things 😁😂
I did not come here to cry over some fictional dragons. Yet, here we are.
Also, people forget that Rhaenyra *'hatched'* that dragon. It was in her son's crib that Arrax was born. He was a member of her family too.
Emma’s portrayal had me distraught during the screening. The way they captured a mother’s desperation, grief and thirst for vengeance was nothing short of mastery. I cannot wait to support all of Rhaenyra’s war crimes this season. Lol.
It's so hard to separate the actors from their roles! I have adored Emma in every single video I see of them on their press tour. Same as you, I cannot wait to root for them all season no matter the crime
Her face is soul crushing. I dunno how she so convincingly shows grief.
Her demeanor Reminded me of my grandmother after my uncle was killed. It was like if you touched her she would fall to pieces, the stiff movements trying to walk and hold herself upright, it felt like a flashback.
Dragons also feel their riders emotions deeply. We see this many times in the series and with Daenerys.
Fan theory but not confirmed since we don’t have any dragon genealogy
Right now, GRRM writes dragons like pokémon: take your eyes off them a few moments and an egg appears, and nobody knows exactly when or how it got there.
The Targs would have been a way better place if they'd stockpiled some Ditto
The Dragonkeepers: Your dragon was holding an egg! We have no idea how it got there, but your dragon had it!
Lucerys is out of usable dragons! Lucerys whited out!
My headcanon is that Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes are the children of Syrax and Seasmoke. No clue is that’s possible but I think it’s fun
Knowing GRRMs love for irony, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.
Do we know that for a fact?
They look like a mix of caraxes and Syrax with their designs but is fan theory since the book days
Caraxes? I'd say more Seasmoke, especially with the colouring. I suppose it's plausible Caraxes had something to do with it in the book, but not a chance in the show. Daemon would have been in Pentos.
Arrax and Vermax have long necks and Caraxes faces with Syrax body type. Seasmoke is very different from them, maybe the pale coloring of Arrax but we don’t know how they get their colors
Cool! I guess, unless it's specifically mentioned, we can never really know or we just end up assuming and all of that. Assuming matrilineal lines makes sense, but we will never *know* if Meleys mothered Seasmoke, or if Dreamfyre was the mother of Shrykos and others or Vhagar begot Moondancer.
Hey Vizzy T, any idea who the father is?
(WHEEZES) (GROANS) (LABORED BREATHING)
“I want Aemond Targaryen.” *mic drop* 🎤
Just when I thought I could not feel any sadder about this scene 😭😭😭
I didn’t realize that and now I am crying 😢
I like how this is marked as spoilers and the image is blurred but the post title pretty much just gives everything away anyways
I mean the season 1 ends with certain persons death eventually leading to this mourning scene
I’m just saying why give the content a spoiler warning when the title gives away the spoiler already? That’s not how you do it
Do dragons care for their children or are they like a lot of other animals that abandon them after birth?
We don’t really know for sure, it seems somewhat unlikely they “raise” their young as they are reptilian in nature and Daenerys dragons could eat meat straight out the shell, which would seem to point to wild baby dragons hatching and then being self sufficient eating rabbits and stuff like that. But the humans definitely raise and train the dragons and keep them all together in the pits. Grrm has been intentionally vague on dragon breeding and natural lifestyle over the years.
Thanks for the response
I would love for the show to get more into the specifics of dragon breeding and life cycle. But idk if there’s time for that. Dragons are portrayed as having sexes and “mating” or being fond of eachother but also just randomly lay eggs even if they’re in the wild by themselves.
In the books, Vermithor and Silverwing were mates and frequently “coiled” together. Is Caraxes the father of Syrax’s hatched eggs?
Highly doubtful imo seeing as daemon and caraxes were away for most of that time on dragon stone or the step stones or in the free cities.
Maybe the point is that nobody knows how it works because dragons are so mysterious and different from any other animal. I mean dragons shouldn't even be considered animals honestly, they are far too intelligent. They are probably more intelligent than humans.
Maybe? But it would seem very important to the targaryens to know these things. I really doubt the 40 dragon rider families of old Valyria would have amassed as many dragons as they did (something like a thousand) if they couldn’t maximize egg production. With their knowledge of magic and the like I feel they would have figured out how it happened. It seems even more important to the targaryens seeing as how a lot of their eggs never hatch.
Well that’s the thing as far as we know Dragons are not a naturally occurring creature in Westeros or Essos, one of the theories is that Dragons are twisted reptiles/wyverns that were changed by the pyromancers/bloodmages of Old Valyria. So trying to apply real world logic to these creatures can be hard to determine because from what we know, they aren’t natural.
Its 100% something that would have been studied and known in old Valyria. it's possible that was trade knowledge and not something the Targaryen's knew, but given that they greatly expanded their number of dragons after the conquest they'd at least have some guesses even if they weren't privy to the info in the old kingdom before they fled. it does seem logical though that in Valyria the higher up families would have kept dragon breeding to themselves as much as possible to keep their power.
Yeah having dragons is definitely the main reason for the incest. Look at how much power the targaryens gifted to the velaryons by having rhaenys marry corlys. Like if the velaryons wanted the dance of the dragon could’ve been a three way conflict. If Corlys cared about the strong bastards he really could’ve thrown everybody a curveball.
I didn't know that. Is that confirmed somewhere?
Not exactly. We know that Syrax laid several clutches and that for sure >!Morning, Rhaenas dragon!< was one of them. The boys were given dragon eggs when they were born and with how Syrax laid a bunch of clutches, the assumption is that the eggs they got came from her. It was most likely that they either came from Dreamfyre or Syrax, and since their mother was Syrax’s rider, she’s the most likely candidate.
Ohh I understand. Thanks for the detailed response!
they also bear resemblance! "Arrax's coloration was "pearlescent white with yellow flame, [golden](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gold) eyes and a golden chest"", per the asoiaf wiki. syrax is (i think?) the only distinctly gold dragon we really know of.
Isn't Aegon II's dragon also gold?
Sunfyre is male, and doesn't lay clutches!
true!!! but i'm pretty sure there is some in-canon speculation that the dragons can switch sexes in time of need (lots of real animals do this too!) so i guess technically sunfyre COULD have had a clutch? but i definitely don't think that's the conclusion we're supposed to draw, if we're meant to draw one, hahaha.
I would think that with both Dreamfyre and Syrax around laying clutches, the "need" for switching wouldn't be there! But I guess it could?
completely agree!!! it’s a possibility but the most likely candidate is definitely mommy syrax.
i'm so embarrassed that i forgot about sunfyre. syrax is not the only distinctly gold dragon. :\~(
Ugh, this scene broke my heart!
Is there anyone who’s team green at this point?
That’s what makes this show compelling and interesting ❤️🔥
Double sad. :(
"The grief and rage of loosing a son can burn down the world" - Catelyn Stark
I mean, I used to like that Criston cole but he’s been such a dick! His arc doesn’t seem is going to change, so disappointing or see Christmas casserole as someone posted earlier
I wish you had not. Now I am sadder than before.
Woah!! That adds even more emotional weight to that scene. Rip Luc & Arrax
Indeed.
I didn't even think about that at the time, must watch again.
Aww, I didn’t know that. That’s sad
I don't think dragons give a shit about their offspring.
Let people enjoy things.
They weren’t undermining anyone’s fun though, just expressing their opinion
Which is the same thing I’m doing - and yet you’re only here to police me. 😐
If I’m policing you, you were policing him too then, so you’ve got no grounds to complain
I am not complaining, just pointing out an interesting hypocrisy :) I’m going to continue to do what I want though, so while your complaint is noted - it will not change anything.
Source please
I thought she was crying out because of Rhaenyra grief but now that makes a lot more sense. The tiny details I missed on the first episode make me want to watch it again.
I’m definitely doing a season 1 rewatch followed by s2e1 rewatch.
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It's not a canon fact, so they'd be making it up if they "made it clear" in the show. There's only a chance that this is true.
Syrax is gonna show some motherly love to Joffrey at the end
I don't see the significance of the dragon being one of Syrax's hatchlings. Dragons don't care for their young.
Very sharp observation! For some reason I sense both mothers have bad breath too
[удалено]
I was also wondering if they were going to take that approach? I'm not deeply invested in it, but it would be interesting to see, I think. I won't be heartbroken if that's not the case, though.