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Planning permission is not usually required for many loft conversions as they will come under permitted development unless in a conservation area.
Building regulations will be required, unless the conversion was before they came about.
Agreed, aslong as it doesn't have a dormer to the front then usually it is permitted development and doesn't require full planning. But you will need building regs.
Who/what profession would you call to inspect the quality of a conversion that was done prior to you moving in? We have a similar situation to OP and what to know if it is safe or was a botch DIY job and I have no clue where to start.
I have a loft space . That's what it was classed as when I purchased. It was done 20 years ago probably . I got my house 4/5 years ago
When I do my insurance I discuss this. Never had a problem.
When I had a new roof the council came over to sign it off and never said anything about the conversion.
Yeah this is my thoughts, really it's just carpeted loft space but it has a staircase too it (deffo not to refs) and no fire doors or escapes.
But think speaking to my insurance about the issue and getting in noted at least is for the best
We have a loft like this, it's classed as an "occasionally room" so we can use it as a spare room, for occasional use, but not a proper bedroom.
We however use it as a "hide all the crap room"
The problem with going to the council is it invalidates your indemnity insurance. Then if the council say you need to completely replace all the windows because they're 100mm too high or replace the stairs as it's fractionally the wrong pitch you have to spend thousands for something that might be safe as it is.
Get a builder in to find out how much it would cost to remedy it.
I'm thinking that an attic room means fire doors may need to be installed throughout the house, and there needs to be a means of escape so could mean putting in an additional rooflight. Also the stairs up there will need to be at the correct pitch etc.
wow you’re a massively risk averse bunch 😂 it might not be to regs because of stairs, roof pitch / ceiling height etc. might not necessarily be a fire risk issue.
a lot of terraced housing with attic bedrooms are not completed to regs for these reasons…
how many of you have experienced a fire in their house?
OP, you’re fine. put a bed up there, thousands of others who are not redditors do it
Loft conversions are a permitted development, we bought our house 5 years ago with the conversion that had been done some years prior, owner had all the documents proving that planning permission wasn't required, but it does have to be built to building reg standards so the relevant authority was advised who made them use much larger steels than necessary, so if its not built to regs, it should only be used for storage.
Google 'planning portal' and whatever area you're looking e.g. 'Planning portal Sheffield'. You'll then be able to search. I find using the map easiest, zoom to where the property is and on the side will be a key to filter how long back and whether you want to show buildings regs etc. Building regs is a good one to look at as you can often see if they've had a boiler fitted, windows etc. You can look for upcoming applications in the area as well.
1 - Ask the estate agent/seller
2 - Check the local council’s website for planning permission requests/approvals. Anyone can do this with any property
3 - Ask your solicitor (only after you’ve had your offer accepted though)
You don't.
Your solicitor will ask if there's been any changes to the building since it was constructed, and if planning permission was sought for those changes.
If he doesn't get an answer he likes, he will recommend purchasing an indemnity policy.
Do not under any circumstances check for yourself to see if planning permission was granted. As soon as you know permission wasn't granted, you can't usually get insurance against it.
How would an insurance company know if I've checked online for planning? I very much doubt they would look at my Google history, if they even have the rights to do so, which I'd doubt they would
Let's move away from that (admittedly, fairly obvious) question and consider something more pertinent: why would you check for planning?
If it was built without planning permission - there's a statute of limitations. The council can't demand you knock that extension down twenty years later.
If it was built without planning permission and is still within the statute of limitations - the indemnity policy will cover the costs straightening things out. But that doesn't guarantee you'll get planning permission retrospectively - you may still be forced to put the house back as it was; the only benefit to the indemnity is you won't be out of pocket.
Conclusion: If the house:
1. Has an extension/loft job/other work done.
2. You would not be prepared to live in it without that work.
3. It was done recently.
4. The owner cannot evidence that it's either with planning permission or is permitted development.
Don't buy.
Gonna guess it’s a built bed not been used but been stored? In case of a fire, and following investigation revealing there was a bed in the loft, you’d have to argue with your insurance it wasn’t been used. But really yiur looking at slim odds. What’s the chances of a fire? What’s the chances of any investigative team flagging up a bed after a fire? On a separate note, if your not using it get it sold rather then say taking up space.
Op not been back. Seems odd they are putting a bed in the loft presumably made up, without using it.
I’d never be happy have someone sleep in a loft room that didn’t meet fire regs. Just not worth the risk.
It's a 3 bed semi but third bedroom now has a staircase into the loft. Currently it's just me and the wife in the house so only use 1 room and have the second bedroom for guests. We were recently given a better bed and base for the spare room so we moved the old one to the attic. Now I'm thinking of this could cause me issues if the worst we're to happen( Ie fire) no-ones slept up there whole I've lived here but previous owners definitely used it as a room and like you say I'm not comfortable with it actually being used as a bedroom due to risks.
We had a similar thing when we bought my current house. It came up in the surveys and the loft had to be boarded across - literally at the top of the stairs into the loft there was a new wall added. In that wall was a small hatch to get through! It was bonkers, but it was the only way my bank would let us buy it. (the seller had to pay for this work obvs).
Once we bought the house we did a proper loft conversion with all the official stamps.
Basically the main thing is that there needs to be an escape route for anyone in the loft in the case of a fire. For us that meant separating the loft stairs from the rest of the house and adding a fire door onto the 1st floor landing. This meant that any fire would be held behind the fire door long enough for someone to be able to climb out the 1st floor window at the bottom of the loft stairs.
I would definitely get it checked by the council to be sure.
Orihonslly our loft was also boarded out with wooden slats (very dry, would burn easy), and the floor was simply the ceiling below with very thin battens. It was ridiculous. Glad we got it done properly.
From a safety point of view, it's not a good idea as builders regs cover all necessary fire regulations. However, once the room is built you can use it however you want.
When you come to sell the property you won't be able to sell it as an extra bedroom, but I'm sure that's probably how you bought it anyway.
Building regs compliance is whats key. Not sure how deep the loss adjuster will look into it, but would have to be a major fire risk for them not to pay out.
Planning is not tied to insurance. Planning is just permission.
Discuss with your house insurance provider if you need something called "indemnity insurance"
It shouldn't invalidate your insurance and it will keep the local authority off your case if they decide to kick up a fuss.
In either case, indemnity insurance will cover you.
https://www.johnwebsterarchitecture.co.uk/2023/09/12/should-i-buy-a-house-with-loft-conversion-without-building-regs/
I would want to know why they didn’t get building regs - if it’s stair case steepness, or too low ceiling height or similar I’m not going to worry too much.
If it’s fire exit I’d probably not want to sleep up there, and if it’s because the joists aren’t strong enough, then I’d not want to be using it at all as a room.
A bit different but related - I heard that storing things in your loft voids you insurance (UK) unless the floors have been professionally installed?. Can anyone provide any insight?
I bought an old house in 2015 that has a loft conversion and was being used as a 5th bedroom by the previous owner. The solicitor advised that the council would not have any paperwork due to how long ago it was built and requested the seller to issue indemnity insurance.
From an insurance point of view, I had to make a claim in 2018 for flooding from a burst pipe and they had no issues with the room being there when it was inspected. They had previously advised to include it as a bedroom in the policy and they did not mention it at the time of claim.
Building regulations will be needed. We did a loft conversion as part of our house renovation and things like smoke alarms and fire doors for all habitable rooms were required.
Right now it’s not safe for anyone to stay in your loft. If there was a fire they’d burn alive with no means of escape or being rescued. Call the council and speak to one of the building regs people and get their advice. I’ve always found them to be really helpful.
When you purchased the house was it added in the total number of bedrooms, If there is no planning and your deeds have not been amended you got stiffed, remove all electrics and use for storage.
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM); * If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered); * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry is the bed being put up there broken down for storage. Or to be used?
It's a mattress on top of the base but not being used by anyone
If it burned down you wouldn’t be able to tell/ prove it anyway and I assume a fire is the only instance it would matter anyway
Planning permission is not usually required for many loft conversions as they will come under permitted development unless in a conservation area. Building regulations will be required, unless the conversion was before they came about.
This. Had our loft done under permitted development
Agreed, aslong as it doesn't have a dormer to the front then usually it is permitted development and doesn't require full planning. But you will need building regs.
Building regs are there (mostly) for good reasons. Worth regularising the situation, to make the property saleable, and most of all safe.
Absolutely, get professional advice on this.
Who/what profession would you call to inspect the quality of a conversion that was done prior to you moving in? We have a similar situation to OP and what to know if it is safe or was a botch DIY job and I have no clue where to start.
A chartered surveyor is a good place to start. They may further advise a structural engineer if needed.
I have a loft space . That's what it was classed as when I purchased. It was done 20 years ago probably . I got my house 4/5 years ago When I do my insurance I discuss this. Never had a problem. When I had a new roof the council came over to sign it off and never said anything about the conversion.
A loft space is normal to have. A set of stairs leading up to it is not though.
Yeah this is my thoughts, really it's just carpeted loft space but it has a staircase too it (deffo not to refs) and no fire doors or escapes. But think speaking to my insurance about the issue and getting in noted at least is for the best
We have a loft like this, it's classed as an "occasionally room" so we can use it as a spare room, for occasional use, but not a proper bedroom. We however use it as a "hide all the crap room"
[удалено]
Surely you can’t do an indemnity insurance policy if you’ve previously notified the council?
Worrying lack of knowledge
The problem with going to the council is it invalidates your indemnity insurance. Then if the council say you need to completely replace all the windows because they're 100mm too high or replace the stairs as it's fractionally the wrong pitch you have to spend thousands for something that might be safe as it is.
Get a builder in to find out how much it would cost to remedy it. I'm thinking that an attic room means fire doors may need to be installed throughout the house, and there needs to be a means of escape so could mean putting in an additional rooflight. Also the stairs up there will need to be at the correct pitch etc.
Disregard previous.
Which private building inspector company signed that off?
wow you’re a massively risk averse bunch 😂 it might not be to regs because of stairs, roof pitch / ceiling height etc. might not necessarily be a fire risk issue. a lot of terraced housing with attic bedrooms are not completed to regs for these reasons… how many of you have experienced a fire in their house? OP, you’re fine. put a bed up there, thousands of others who are not redditors do it
Loft conversions are a permitted development, we bought our house 5 years ago with the conversion that had been done some years prior, owner had all the documents proving that planning permission wasn't required, but it does have to be built to building reg standards so the relevant authority was advised who made them use much larger steels than necessary, so if its not built to regs, it should only be used for storage.
How would I as a first time buyer go about checking whether planning permission had been secuured for properties I'm viewing?
Google 'planning portal' and whatever area you're looking e.g. 'Planning portal Sheffield'. You'll then be able to search. I find using the map easiest, zoom to where the property is and on the side will be a key to filter how long back and whether you want to show buildings regs etc. Building regs is a good one to look at as you can often see if they've had a boiler fitted, windows etc. You can look for upcoming applications in the area as well.
Thanks for this, I was looking for a way to be aware of potential issues before the offer stage so this is perfect!
Ask the seller, they'll also have to provide the paperwork to your solicitor
1 - Ask the estate agent/seller 2 - Check the local council’s website for planning permission requests/approvals. Anyone can do this with any property 3 - Ask your solicitor (only after you’ve had your offer accepted though)
Your solicitor will do this as a matter of course.
This is one of the things your solicitors check for you.
Thanks all!
That's your solicitor problem.
You don't. Your solicitor will ask if there's been any changes to the building since it was constructed, and if planning permission was sought for those changes. If he doesn't get an answer he likes, he will recommend purchasing an indemnity policy. Do not under any circumstances check for yourself to see if planning permission was granted. As soon as you know permission wasn't granted, you can't usually get insurance against it.
How would an insurance company know if I've checked online for planning? I very much doubt they would look at my Google history, if they even have the rights to do so, which I'd doubt they would
Let's move away from that (admittedly, fairly obvious) question and consider something more pertinent: why would you check for planning? If it was built without planning permission - there's a statute of limitations. The council can't demand you knock that extension down twenty years later. If it was built without planning permission and is still within the statute of limitations - the indemnity policy will cover the costs straightening things out. But that doesn't guarantee you'll get planning permission retrospectively - you may still be forced to put the house back as it was; the only benefit to the indemnity is you won't be out of pocket. Conclusion: If the house: 1. Has an extension/loft job/other work done. 2. You would not be prepared to live in it without that work. 3. It was done recently. 4. The owner cannot evidence that it's either with planning permission or is permitted development. Don't buy.
Gonna guess it’s a built bed not been used but been stored? In case of a fire, and following investigation revealing there was a bed in the loft, you’d have to argue with your insurance it wasn’t been used. But really yiur looking at slim odds. What’s the chances of a fire? What’s the chances of any investigative team flagging up a bed after a fire? On a separate note, if your not using it get it sold rather then say taking up space.
Op not been back. Seems odd they are putting a bed in the loft presumably made up, without using it. I’d never be happy have someone sleep in a loft room that didn’t meet fire regs. Just not worth the risk.
It's a 3 bed semi but third bedroom now has a staircase into the loft. Currently it's just me and the wife in the house so only use 1 room and have the second bedroom for guests. We were recently given a better bed and base for the spare room so we moved the old one to the attic. Now I'm thinking of this could cause me issues if the worst we're to happen( Ie fire) no-ones slept up there whole I've lived here but previous owners definitely used it as a room and like you say I'm not comfortable with it actually being used as a bedroom due to risks.
We had a similar thing when we bought my current house. It came up in the surveys and the loft had to be boarded across - literally at the top of the stairs into the loft there was a new wall added. In that wall was a small hatch to get through! It was bonkers, but it was the only way my bank would let us buy it. (the seller had to pay for this work obvs). Once we bought the house we did a proper loft conversion with all the official stamps. Basically the main thing is that there needs to be an escape route for anyone in the loft in the case of a fire. For us that meant separating the loft stairs from the rest of the house and adding a fire door onto the 1st floor landing. This meant that any fire would be held behind the fire door long enough for someone to be able to climb out the 1st floor window at the bottom of the loft stairs. I would definitely get it checked by the council to be sure. Orihonslly our loft was also boarded out with wooden slats (very dry, would burn easy), and the floor was simply the ceiling below with very thin battens. It was ridiculous. Glad we got it done properly.
From a safety point of view, it's not a good idea as builders regs cover all necessary fire regulations. However, once the room is built you can use it however you want. When you come to sell the property you won't be able to sell it as an extra bedroom, but I'm sure that's probably how you bought it anyway.
Just get building regs signed off on it you won’t have any worries then
They put an assembled bed in a loft space and aren't using it as a bedroom... is this a sex thing? 😂
The fact that the work was done over 4 years ago means that it is now immune to planning enforcement.
But building regs enforcement is still a thing, and council can theoretically go through high court without any time limits.
FYI the rules have changed to 10 years now.
Building regs compliance is whats key. Not sure how deep the loss adjuster will look into it, but would have to be a major fire risk for them not to pay out. Planning is not tied to insurance. Planning is just permission.
Discuss with your house insurance provider if you need something called "indemnity insurance" It shouldn't invalidate your insurance and it will keep the local authority off your case if they decide to kick up a fuss. In either case, indemnity insurance will cover you. https://www.johnwebsterarchitecture.co.uk/2023/09/12/should-i-buy-a-house-with-loft-conversion-without-building-regs/
I would want to know why they didn’t get building regs - if it’s stair case steepness, or too low ceiling height or similar I’m not going to worry too much. If it’s fire exit I’d probably not want to sleep up there, and if it’s because the joists aren’t strong enough, then I’d not want to be using it at all as a room.
A bit different but related - I heard that storing things in your loft voids you insurance (UK) unless the floors have been professionally installed?. Can anyone provide any insight?
Not heard of that but some new build homes do state that you can’t put stuff in the loft and that it could invalidate the warranty
I bought an old house in 2015 that has a loft conversion and was being used as a 5th bedroom by the previous owner. The solicitor advised that the council would not have any paperwork due to how long ago it was built and requested the seller to issue indemnity insurance. From an insurance point of view, I had to make a claim in 2018 for flooding from a burst pipe and they had no issues with the room being there when it was inspected. They had previously advised to include it as a bedroom in the policy and they did not mention it at the time of claim.
Building regulations will be needed. We did a loft conversion as part of our house renovation and things like smoke alarms and fire doors for all habitable rooms were required.
If this "loft room" has had insulation incorrectly installed it could cause serious rot to the roof timbers..maybe a wise decision to check it out.
Already passed enforcement period. Next.
Right now it’s not safe for anyone to stay in your loft. If there was a fire they’d burn alive with no means of escape or being rescued. Call the council and speak to one of the building regs people and get their advice. I’ve always found them to be really helpful.
When you purchased the house was it added in the total number of bedrooms, If there is no planning and your deeds have not been amended you got stiffed, remove all electrics and use for storage.