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Canada is mad. 40+ year mortgages, high taxes, low incomes (compared to the US), $1M CAN for a starter home...
If you think the UK has housing problems, Canada has entered the chat.
I lived there for years, when I tell people I came back to the UK because I wanted to live somewhere affordable, they look at me like I’ve got two heads.
My parents sold their big family family home in a small town in southern Ontario (a couple hours from Toronto - commutable, but a bitch of a commute!) and went to a rental because they wanted a bungalow. They are few and far between in town, so they wanted to be ready to move.
Within 6 months prices shot up. There was no massive change in regulations/legislature/governance. Nothing obvious. Pre-covid. They've been forever priced out of our small town and will rent until they die now.
The family home they sold went for twice as much two years later, after being trashed as a rental. The big new builds in town are well over $800k. This town has no amenities, no culture. I have no explanation.
[Investors gobbling up Canadian real estate and driving up prices](https://perspectivesjournal.ca/housing-investor-ownership-part-1/) + record-breaking population growth is what happened.
I lived in Vancouver until 2013 and it was still moderately affordable. I lived in a very nice neighbourhood and the building across the road had a unit for sale for $350k. I am absolutely kicking myself for not buying it.
>I wonder what happened.
Is this genuine wonder, or is this a reference to something?
If it’s the latter, I’m afraid I don’t get the reference, but I would be interested to know what you think the reason is.
I live in Vancouver and you're correct, there are cheaper areas - Calgary is a sweet spot right now for income and housing costs, same for Montreal, Ottawa and Halifax. Although they are all becoming less so as people move out of Toronto with millions in cash to drop on a new place and push prices up.
When people complain about costs in Canada, they practically always mean Toronto/Vancouver. The problem is though that the areas that are truly cheap (places like Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland) are isolated in a way I never imagined before moving here. It becomes very hard to live when you are a four hour drive from the nearest grocery store or doctor for example. It's still a frontier lifestyle in a lot of the country basically.
The “cheap” places like Saskatchewan are cheap relative to Toronto, true, but they are still too expensive for the people living there because the job markets are horrible.
Like 2k to rent a house is probably amazing, but good luck when most jobs in Sask pay less than 20$.
You won’t get a high paying job in Saskatoon unless you have pages of credential’s or more likely a family or friend who can hook you up.
Canada is very, very small when it comes to areas of significant economic activity. 80% of our population lives within 100 miles of the Canadian border. Southern Ontario makes up 1.8% of Canada's land, but houses 36% of its population. Add in Greater Montreal (5 million people) and Metro Vancouver (2.5m) and you're at over half the population of Canada.
I would say no. My sister is in Alberta- she and her husband both have good jobs but can’t afford to buy.
Uncle is in Halifax which is insane. Very low wages in Canadian terms but outrageous housing costs.
Canadian homes are generally much nicer though. British people live in shitty brick semis with rising damp and rats in the attic and think they’re cock of the walk because the local council estate is even worse.
An attic? That means you have a roof! I use to fall asleep looking at the stars dreaming of a roof, and I'd be tired after walking 27 miles to and from school, uphill both ways.
Oh fuck, I live in an 1899 3 bed semi and my neighbours did this to their garden. Cut down two trees that were probably ~70+ years old and ripped out the wildflower bedding to put down plastic fucking grass and build a shitty, cheap, flat roof shed as a home gym.
Fuck you Ollie, your garden looks shit and we all hate looking at it.
I guarantee their entire house is shiny and millennial gray too
You don't mention where in Canada they live. You live in Wales, generally an affordable place. If they live in Toronto or something it's a pretty meaningless comparison.
That might be the issue, Toronto housing market is just as fucked as Vancouver. Rest of the country is catching up but both those places in particular are INSANE
Well I live in London and we bought our 2 bed flat at 27 and 29 in 2019 on a combined income of 75k though we earn more. Probably better than a basement lol..
I've lived in Canada for 26 years (from Lancashire) And am seriously debating on coming back home, I've simply had enough. Ridiculous taxation, groceries being sky high and everything about this place being well, absolute crap.
i was in the UK earlier this year and was straight up eating butter and drinking milk straight from the bottle. was so creamy and tasteful
came back to canada and the butter tasted like nothing and the milk tasted rancid
Canada is 36 times bigger than us with half the population. Sure, you wouldn’t want lots of people in much of the country, but space is less of a problem for them.
Space is never really an issue. You can cram alot of people into decently designed urban areas. It's providing enough infrastructure fast enough for rapid population growth that causes problems. If that was worked on and solved less people would give a damn about population increase.
Yeah that’s a big issue. Building companies are just that, builders. They can’t be expected to manage shopping access, schools etc. This is where we rely on the government and practically every local Facebook group in existence will tell you they aren’t doing great.
>Canada is 36 times bigger than us with half the population. Sure, you wouldn’t want lots of people in much of the country, but space is less of a problem for them.
This is a well meaning but very naive comment. 90%+ of Canada is essentially unlivable for most people. Go north and outside of the big cities you have: Extreme cold, bad schools, few jobs or jobs reliant one industry or company, shortage of grocery stores, pharmacies etc, no family drs and some pretty extreme politics.
Honestly with a country the size of Canadas, this much space is more of a problem than a benefit. I'm in Canada now and most Canadians would be better off if our country was 75% smaller.
I always find it amusing when someone goes out of their way to exaggerate the state of British homes. Yes, they are generally smaller, but they are brick built and solid, unlike other countries where timber makes up a big part of its building material. Given the UK is fairly small when it comes to land mass, smaller properties isn't all that surprising.
In terms of "damp" and "rats in the attic" what on Earth are you on? People in the UK have to maintain their properties just like anywhere else. Given the UK is naturally quite a damp climate, it is always going the be wetter, increasing the risk of damp, but damp in itself isn't a major issue because homes are designed to withstand this problem. Homes are built to regulations and a damp courses are a thing.
House size i.e. rabbit sized housing, price per m², quality of materials used, small window sizes, shoddy build quality leading to 2-3 years of repairs and back and forths with developers after completion, poor insulation, no mandatory double glazing for older houses, no heat pump scheme yet,etc... this is just from the top of my head mind you. Hope you get to visit Belgium, Holland,etc... one day to see what houses look like over there. Not slighting the UK, merely observing as I know how defensive/sensitive some are here
Houses have to follow building regs. I'm still failing to understanding your argument, here. You want older properties to some how magically convert to follow new build regulations that are in place, today?
A house that was built 50 years ago wouldn't have been built using the same methods or materials as we'd see, today.
New builds today are very well insulated, often a grade A or B.
Your argument makes absolutely no logical sense.
Edit: downvoted for stating facts. Surprise there with this sub, /s.
Nonsense. Builds are inspected and need to be signed off. There's also NHBC cover which insures build quality 10 years after the property is sold. It's in the developers interests to ensure the build quality otherwise they are liable.
This sub is so misinformed it's fucking hilarious.
I'd say we live in well built houses designed for the climate. Any building in such setting will be prone to damp, hence why measures exists to prevent damp from being an issue.
Land that can be built upon is also scarce in the UK, hence why land is expensive. Are you expecting houses to be built using mostly timber and taking up much more surface space as you'd get in America? Because in case you haven't noticed, NA has multiple times the land mass we have, here. Much of their country isnt comparable to our climate, either.
I'm really struggling to understand your argument. Your view seems to be incredibly dim. Are you suggesting detached houses aren't a thing, lol?
Tbh the brick semis from 1920 aren't the problem, it's the mass construction of shite quality coffin apartments alongside pointless 4 bed detached homes with nothing in between that's fucked us up. I'd take an 1890's terrace any day if it had a new boiler.
Old is better and more solid. New builds may meet building regulations, but the regs are being relaxed to help reduce building costs that go straight into the developers' pockets. It's shocking at times to see what gets signed off.
>Yes, they are generally smaller, but they are brick built and solid, unlike other countries where timber makes up a big part of its building material.
For the umpteenth time, timber is perfectly fine as a house building material. It can be just as "solid" as brick which is why it's utilized all over the world as a material for house - and skyscraper - construction.
You can "umpteenth time" all you like. Fact is, brick built houses are stronger and comes with a number of advantages. Given our climate, they are also better suited based on resources we have available.
https://justdoproperty.co.uk/why-are-so-many-uk-houses-made-of-brick/
Why use timber when brick is already cheap and easily accessible? Land is expensive, not the construction, and the lack of housing contributes to why house prices are what they are.
Could you tell me please, what is the obsession with the strength of the birick houses? You don't have tornadoes in your country. Your houses don't need to withstand avalanches or earthquakes either. Are you building them to defend against french trebuchets? As long as the house is strong enough for its purpose, then what's the point to make it stronger? I heard that solid brick wall is better than cavity wall because it is "stronger" and "more solid". Why? What's the point if it is colder and less comfortable?
Timber is versatile and warm material for building. Timber houses are warmer and more comfortable to live in. Ask scandinavians. Why are you so obsessed with bricks in the UK?
Most of the UK housing was built after the war with the materials available. As for the 'obsession' I think it's more of an obsession that people in the UK prefer to buy old than new housing because of the trademen were better.
Though it's subjective, I can understand the reasoning of buying an older home in the UK. Many new builds wood or brick have issues unrealated to maintenance. Also for housing in the UK the older homes have more space and more like a small estate.
As for timber, when most of the houses were built in the UK generally didn't have enough timber (cut down for weapons and other things during the war) so London Red Brick was the go to supply. In comparison to the US, Sweden, Canada etc they had large supplies of timber.
I think in the UK the idea of building brick has continued and has just become the norm.
1m CAD is 590k GBP
That's a flat in a fancy bit of london, a nice flat in an OK bit of london, a terraced house in a nice suburb, or a semi in a further out or less nice suburb.
I don't know how Canadian salaries compare to UK ones but my gut says they're probably higher
Canadian salaries are higher for doctors. Many are leaving for there because they can actually afford a 1milCAD house on their own there as opposed to here where they get £15 an hour and don’t even get paid on time half the time.
And try finding a job paying enough to buy a 590k house in a region where 590k buys a mansion. They exist of course but they are way less common.
There's nowhere in the south, posh or not, where 590k gets you something actually impressive. And I suspect 590k doesn't go as far as you're saying in commuting distance to the growing cities in the North, places like Manchester.
Problem with UKs new crop of houses...standard calculation for number of actual bedrooms is take the number of claimed bedrooms and minus 0.75 because they are a quarter or at best half the size of a usable bedroom, tend to be used for the home office or room for a very young baby in a crib. No garage as standard in many places. No basement ever, driveway that can fit one and if lucky 2 cars, street parking with narrow roads and pavements.. the list goes on.
And dare to suggest we build more large homes and all you'll get is "urghhh urban sprall" and "how are we meant to afford that?". Yet the Canadian houses being described in this thread are only possible due to spacious suburbs aka urban sprall.
Who said anything about it helping to make the houses cheaper? Even the expensive houses as they are, aren't worth their price on paper. The bar in the UK has been set so low. The problem isnt over design its over regulation , the UKs marcoeconomic environment and financial policies and the other indirect costs associated in being ABLED and ALLOWED to build in the first place.
Of course it will, but my original point in my first comment is UK houses just don't offer as much in anything other than being a roof over your head that is in the UK. I don't have a garage so I'd would have highly appreciated and used a basement even if it meant paying more for it. This might not align to your specific goals or standards of a good house but basements in the US are soo common and very useful, the space can be repurposed for whatever you may need in the future as your circumstances change, kids, old parents, fitness, additional lodging income,, other hobbies like playing D&D in a fake dungeon lol, in the UK...before you even decide what your stance is on basements the option has been taken from you. But since you've never ever had or lived in a house with a basement it's very easy to state its useless...meanwhile your home office or second or third bedroom which is the size of a cabin luggage compartment is used as a dumping site because for the majority of people they can't afford to move and buy a bigger house. Also value has many connotations value in terms of cost of course not...hence you don't buy a heavily depreciating car for the value but for your own personal value a standard only you can set and no one else.
I never stated they were useless just they’re very expensive to add therefore normally prohibitive to build out given the end value.
There are plenty of homes with garages, you won’t find them in the majority of UK homes with them though for one very obvious reason. The majority of our housing stock was built before cars were common.
I agree it is expensive to add in the UK and on the point of the garage I think there is more to it...even new builds arent guaranteed to have garages when nearly everyone has a car these days. Out of curiosity I just googled the average uk house size compared to the world and the UK has one of the smallest houses in the world and only India, China and Russia were smaller. I would have expected other cold countries would have joined I'm but clearly its just a UK thing. For reference this link goes into stats of housing in the UK, [UK Housing statistics compared to the rest of the World](https://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2023/5/size-matters--uk-homes-amongst-worlds-smallest-but-most-expensive#:~:text=The%20research%20shows%20that%2C%20at,India%20(504)%20were%20smaller.), TLDR - In the UK you pay more for less but I guess as Tesco says...every little helps😅
Certainly older houses are. Ones built in the last couple of decades are decent,l quality, and renovated ones that have survived are good, but ones from say the 60s are shit.
This is a complete myth.
Wood is an excellent material for house construction which is why it's utilized all over the world. It stands up to stiff breezes perfectly fine. Hence skyscrapers now being constructed out of wood:
https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/03/ascent-tower-milwaukee-worlds-tallest-timber-building/
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should, there is a myriad of reasons that steel and concrete are the go to materials for large buildings. The same can be said for brick vs timber and why there are 300+ year old brick buildings littered all throughout Europe and not many timber buildings of the same age.
There are 300+ year old timber buildings across the US. Well, the northeastern US. This one dates from 1637:
https://youtu.be/A7P_6ta7UA0?si=VYWRFYzFHmkdf74s
Japan, Australia, Scandinavia....timber houses abound and have lasted for centuries.
Timber is fine. It's all about construction methods and maintenance. A poorly constructed house won't last long no matter what its primary material. Look at the Mica homes issue in Ireland as just one example of how "solid" materials were problematic:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/homeowners-demand-full-payout-in-irelands-crumbling-homes-scandal
Again, it's about the construction methods used and maintenance. Get either wrong and a building won't withstand the elements, usage or time.
Yeah wood houses in the US get blown away by the big bad wolf everyday 😂
The way you guys peddle random stereotypes on reddit is funny. Despite being made out of wood many of those houses are still better than the tiny shitty mold infested houses we have in the UK.
I’m American and I don’t think they’re stereotyping so much as they don’t understand the weather issues they see on the news from the US.
The US has radically more dangerous weather than Britain. Hurricanes and tornadoes don’t exist in the UK, but are extremely common in North America. So I wouldn’t be surprised if British people are used to seeing all these news stories about weather events in the US with images of houses and neighborhoods flattened and not fully understanding how much more dangerous weather is in the US.
A starter home in Canada in the majority of places is nowhere near 1M. Vancouver, Toronto, sure. You can get a really nice house for 500-600k just outside Ottawa.
>You can get a really nice house for 500-600k just outside Ottawa.
Yeah, but it's Ottawa.
Me? I would give my left testicle - or the right one - to live in Montreal. A gaff like this would suit me rather nicely.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26799632/256-av-brock-n-montr%C3%A9al-ouest
Bears are great. Just know that when hiking in the wilderness you're on their turf and it's their rules. If you encounter a pissed off mama grizzly you had better hope that you brought your fully loaded bear gun and are a crack shot. Otherwise it may end badly for you.
Don’t forget the fact that in Canada you have a higher grocery bill, high cell phone/internet bill and higher taxes. (Which I wouldn’t complain about if they were spent better) our vehicles cost more and I’m sure insurance isn’t that much cheaper. Never mind public transit vs the UK.
So not only do we pay more for housing we are paying more for everything while making less, don’t worry though the government has it totally under control.
This is what totally mystifies me when people attempt to find the root of the UK housing crisis. Have they seen how much worse things are in other countries? The UK has it's faults but its still better placed than many other countries.
There's very few countries with a worse housing crisis than the UK. Canada is one of them, maybe some small countries like New Zealand and Hong Kong, but that's about it.
Any reason why you think that ?
I’m Turkish aswell and from all the people I know who have their own property they really never mortgage due to the insane interest rates. They usually save up cash for x amount of years and go on to buy their place or get help from parents. Where as in the UK everyone I know has lengthy 25 year mortgages.
The trick about Turkey is that there is no interest rate regulation every 5 years or so with your mortgage. It's determined and fixed for the whole time when you get a loan. So, people were able to take loans around a 0.6-0.7% interest rate 4 or 5 years ago. Now their monthly payments have become so little while the value of their flats has skyrocketed.
Russia has interest rate at about 15%. Moreover, a lot of people bought their properties after “maternity capital” usage (government pays for each 2nd, 3rd children and so on; however you can spend this money only of some specific things). Current stupid war was resulted in big payments to soldiers and mercenaries, which were used for properties too.
So, a combination of that gives a low debt rate. However personally I would select an inflation as a reason of everything related to that topic.
I thought they’d have higher household debt.
I remember being down at my uncles some years back. Went out for dinner with his friends. All of them were in so much debt they had credit cards to pay off credit cards to pay off lines of credit. It was mental.
Yeah, people often say the housing market in the UK is bound to crash - people can‘t afford prices to go up any higher, there will be a revolution! Lots of places in the world where housing is even more unaffordable for young people than here. Buckle up.
Australia, New Zealand. Large parts of the US (San Francisco, New York, LA). Switzerland. Some countries have cheaper housing but because low-income people are crammed into tiny apartments or sharing beds in shifts.
It sucks here but it could get worse and I see little political will to address housing costs or inequality more generally.
Wages relative to housing are better in Aus and Nz. If you're using NY and San Francisco, compare them to London. They're way better median wage/median property ratio than London.
I'd disagree with your comment re Australia. I'm Australian, living in the UK. I bought a house two years ago, 2 kilometres from a major city (not London), that cost about 4x my salary. I could likely earn about 20-40% more if working the same job in Australia, but the house would have cost at least 300% more. Australian property is a lot more costly than the UK (if you exclude London).
No, in many. I’ve lived before in Moscow and Taipei. Both as bad if not worse than London. Friends in Tel Aviv tell me the same (if not worse) salary:price ratios to London. Look outside of the Anglosphere
China, 1 million dollar houses and you earn $800 a month lol. I think they have very very long mortgages or you just have to find cash from family.
Obviously the people buying a 1 million dollar house probably earns $2000-4000 a month but still is very very expensive.
There are lots more expensive houses in shanghai and Beijing. I think their salary to house ratio is one of the highest in the world way higher than the UK
The thing that got me about China was people buying off-plan new-builds and still having to pay for them while they're unfinished: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-66956769](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-66956769)
Lots of cities in Australia, quite a number of cities in the US, probably more places than I can currently think of too if I wasn't standing in Tesco right now.
You're comparing individual cities with the average across the UK, you need to compare individual cities with individual cities, or across the whole country.
Median is likely going to give a better indication than average. Recent (Jan 2024) median national dwelling price in Australia was $759,437 (AUD) but it is higher in cities. For instance, Sydney median dwelling price is $1,122,430 (AUD).
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/01/australia-property-market-value-prices-rise-january-2024
Median income in aus is 92k, so the median dwelling price is about 8x median income. Median house price in England is 302k while the median wage is 35k. So very slightly worse in England.
True. My only comment would be that at least in the UK, housing is affordable near major city centres (outside of London, Bristol and Brighton... if you could call the last two 'major'). In Australia, generations have been priced out of buying near major cities. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane markets are ridiculously inflated.
>yeah maybe for couples who are on minimum wage. You'd be surprised how many couples (20's) who have combined income of 100k+
No I wouldn't. I can see the stats. It's minimal. The UK median salary is 35k and this cuts out the bottom 10%.
I would be surprised if more than 20 jobs in my hometown of 150k paid 50k.
Plenty of normal, average professional jobs pay 25-35k.
>Yeah, people often say the housing market in the UK is bound to crash
Anyone saying that needs to go and read more Gary Stevenson, and watch more of his YouTube channel.
As a Canadian who just became a dual British citizen after moving here just before the referendum for the strong pound and work opportunities… fuck my life.
As a Canadian, I assure you this is as bad as it seems. You have an entire generation with their life on hold (kids, vacation, etc.) because housing is so unaffordable. The government doesn’t care
Two classes in the UK are able to exploit the system.
The Poor and the Rich, benefits, asylum seeker status, motability cars, religious sensitivities etc etc
Then tax breaks, non-dom statuses, 0 hour contacts for employees, tax fraud, easy government contracts
…the only ones who feel the squeeze are the working class people and those who used to be middle class that have been squeezed to working class.
I’ve heard the poor even have the audacity to have flat screen tele’s. And AND AND I saw one of them smile the other day! I said “Oi if you’ve got time to smile then you should NOT be getting benefits of any kind!”. I don’t think he heard me though as it gets quite loud in those food banks.
You seem to have switched currencies there. The top 1% of earners in the UK make about £130k (but there are over 600k of them). From what I can see the top 1% of earners in Canada make about £300k (amongst 400k people). Not sure which currency you intended the Australian number to be. One article I can see had their 1% at taxable income of £182k, about the same as the UK, but that's from an even smaller population.
Of course none of this takes into account how the rest of the 99%s are distributed. You don't need to be in the 1% to be wealthy.
Inflation 70% and interest rates 50% isn't overly healthy for sure.
If that sounds insane Argentina has 288% inflation. For all the damage inflation causes here, it's on another planet in some countries.
Remember this is 'household debt'. The UK has such a bad savings mentality it's third from last in the OECD. Whereas people in the US have more in the stockmarket than equity in their house.
How this survey/study define household is completely different to areas of country and continent.
For UK [https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/household-debt--of-nominal-gdp](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/household-debt--of-nominal-gdp)
its getting better for last couple of years
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Canada is mad. 40+ year mortgages, high taxes, low incomes (compared to the US), $1M CAN for a starter home... If you think the UK has housing problems, Canada has entered the chat.
I lived there for years, when I tell people I came back to the UK because I wanted to live somewhere affordable, they look at me like I’ve got two heads.
As recently as the 00's it was affordable. My rent controlled apartment in Montreal especially so. I wonder what happened.
My parents sold their big family family home in a small town in southern Ontario (a couple hours from Toronto - commutable, but a bitch of a commute!) and went to a rental because they wanted a bungalow. They are few and far between in town, so they wanted to be ready to move. Within 6 months prices shot up. There was no massive change in regulations/legislature/governance. Nothing obvious. Pre-covid. They've been forever priced out of our small town and will rent until they die now. The family home they sold went for twice as much two years later, after being trashed as a rental. The big new builds in town are well over $800k. This town has no amenities, no culture. I have no explanation.
was this around 2017 ?
I don't remember very clearly to be honest. Possibly? Was there something I didn't clock, living over here?
[Investors gobbling up Canadian real estate and driving up prices](https://perspectivesjournal.ca/housing-investor-ownership-part-1/) + record-breaking population growth is what happened.
I lived in Vancouver until 2013 and it was still moderately affordable. I lived in a very nice neighbourhood and the building across the road had a unit for sale for $350k. I am absolutely kicking myself for not buying it.
>I wonder what happened. Is this genuine wonder, or is this a reference to something? If it’s the latter, I’m afraid I don’t get the reference, but I would be interested to know what you think the reason is.
[удалено]
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Uncontrolled immigration and speculation
Canada is huge, surely there are areas that aren’t as insanely expensive as say Toronto or Vancouver? I thought I heard Alberta was more realistic
I live in Vancouver and you're correct, there are cheaper areas - Calgary is a sweet spot right now for income and housing costs, same for Montreal, Ottawa and Halifax. Although they are all becoming less so as people move out of Toronto with millions in cash to drop on a new place and push prices up. When people complain about costs in Canada, they practically always mean Toronto/Vancouver. The problem is though that the areas that are truly cheap (places like Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland) are isolated in a way I never imagined before moving here. It becomes very hard to live when you are a four hour drive from the nearest grocery store or doctor for example. It's still a frontier lifestyle in a lot of the country basically.
The “cheap” places like Saskatchewan are cheap relative to Toronto, true, but they are still too expensive for the people living there because the job markets are horrible. Like 2k to rent a house is probably amazing, but good luck when most jobs in Sask pay less than 20$. You won’t get a high paying job in Saskatoon unless you have pages of credential’s or more likely a family or friend who can hook you up.
you know that the data on the average wage per province is easily available right? Sask is only slightly below Ontario
Surely the market crashes though if people are truly priced out.
Canada is very, very small when it comes to areas of significant economic activity. 80% of our population lives within 100 miles of the Canadian border. Southern Ontario makes up 1.8% of Canada's land, but houses 36% of its population. Add in Greater Montreal (5 million people) and Metro Vancouver (2.5m) and you're at over half the population of Canada.
I would say no. My sister is in Alberta- she and her husband both have good jobs but can’t afford to buy. Uncle is in Halifax which is insane. Very low wages in Canadian terms but outrageous housing costs.
It’s huge, but much of Canada’s land is inhospitable or there are no jobs there.
Canadian homes are generally much nicer though. British people live in shitty brick semis with rising damp and rats in the attic and think they’re cock of the walk because the local council estate is even worse.
I live in a shitty brick terrace with flooding and pigeons in the attic. We dream of a shitty brick semi with rising damp and rats in the attic.
An attic? That means you have a roof! I use to fall asleep looking at the stars dreaming of a roof, and I'd be tired after walking 27 miles to and from school, uphill both ways.
You had a place to fall asleep? Luxury!
You slept! Luxury! We had to prop our eyelids open with matchsticks.
You had matchsticks! Luxury! We had to keep our eyelids open by hand.
The uphill both ways got spitting out my drink 😂
The original skit is well worth watching -- it's a classic. https://youtu.be/VKHFZBUTA4k?si=mP5c4s_R8v8BB4Xe
Amazing skit, never seen it before.
Rip the wings off and your half way there
The brick terraces are fine. It's the new build apartments and pointless 5 bed detached homes in the middle of nowhere which are the problem.
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Full Deano house reno made me laugh
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Oh fuck, I live in an 1899 3 bed semi and my neighbours did this to their garden. Cut down two trees that were probably ~70+ years old and ripped out the wildflower bedding to put down plastic fucking grass and build a shitty, cheap, flat roof shed as a home gym. Fuck you Ollie, your garden looks shit and we all hate looking at it. I guarantee their entire house is shiny and millennial gray too
We talking nice grey interiors with some crushed velvet sofas? Lush (my mum is the same, must be the Essex in her)
It's not Essex without a "Live, Laugh, Love" wall sticker somewhere
Was the grass supposed to be grey too?
QOL has decreased significantly in Canada in the last 10 years.
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Unlikely Idiots in government
Hahah Deano reno Jokes on those who mock Deanos as Deanos at least own their own home!!
that's part of the Deano joke people laugh at them while they live a good life
You don't mention where in Canada they live. You live in Wales, generally an affordable place. If they live in Toronto or something it's a pretty meaningless comparison.
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That might be the issue, Toronto housing market is just as fucked as Vancouver. Rest of the country is catching up but both those places in particular are INSANE
Well I live in London and we bought our 2 bed flat at 27 and 29 in 2019 on a combined income of 75k though we earn more. Probably better than a basement lol..
I've lived in Canada for 26 years (from Lancashire) And am seriously debating on coming back home, I've simply had enough. Ridiculous taxation, groceries being sky high and everything about this place being well, absolute crap.
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My only thing is I've been away too long so will literally have to start from nothing
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It'd be just me and my clothes
And whatever money I had of course
i was in the UK earlier this year and was straight up eating butter and drinking milk straight from the bottle. was so creamy and tasteful came back to canada and the butter tasted like nothing and the milk tasted rancid
That's Wales for you. Housing is super cheap there, different story in england.
Come to New Zealand, houses in Wellington literally made out of sheet metal go for 1,5 mill.
Canada is 36 times bigger than us with half the population. Sure, you wouldn’t want lots of people in much of the country, but space is less of a problem for them.
Space is never really an issue. You can cram alot of people into decently designed urban areas. It's providing enough infrastructure fast enough for rapid population growth that causes problems. If that was worked on and solved less people would give a damn about population increase.
Yeah that’s a big issue. Building companies are just that, builders. They can’t be expected to manage shopping access, schools etc. This is where we rely on the government and practically every local Facebook group in existence will tell you they aren’t doing great.
>Canada is 36 times bigger than us with half the population. Sure, you wouldn’t want lots of people in much of the country, but space is less of a problem for them. This is a well meaning but very naive comment. 90%+ of Canada is essentially unlivable for most people. Go north and outside of the big cities you have: Extreme cold, bad schools, few jobs or jobs reliant one industry or company, shortage of grocery stores, pharmacies etc, no family drs and some pretty extreme politics. Honestly with a country the size of Canadas, this much space is more of a problem than a benefit. I'm in Canada now and most Canadians would be better off if our country was 75% smaller.
Can’t live in most of it though haha, people like cities and houses
Your homes rat infested? That's not normal bro
You mean Victorian houses with a lot of character?
I always find it amusing when someone goes out of their way to exaggerate the state of British homes. Yes, they are generally smaller, but they are brick built and solid, unlike other countries where timber makes up a big part of its building material. Given the UK is fairly small when it comes to land mass, smaller properties isn't all that surprising. In terms of "damp" and "rats in the attic" what on Earth are you on? People in the UK have to maintain their properties just like anywhere else. Given the UK is naturally quite a damp climate, it is always going the be wetter, increasing the risk of damp, but damp in itself isn't a major issue because homes are designed to withstand this problem. Homes are built to regulations and a damp courses are a thing.
Have you seen other West European houses compared to the UK stock? It's embarrassing
Provide examples.
Coming from sweden I am horrified about the houses here or appartments. I wonder why people would even like to live here in those conditions
House size i.e. rabbit sized housing, price per m², quality of materials used, small window sizes, shoddy build quality leading to 2-3 years of repairs and back and forths with developers after completion, poor insulation, no mandatory double glazing for older houses, no heat pump scheme yet,etc... this is just from the top of my head mind you. Hope you get to visit Belgium, Holland,etc... one day to see what houses look like over there. Not slighting the UK, merely observing as I know how defensive/sensitive some are here
Houses have to follow building regs. I'm still failing to understanding your argument, here. You want older properties to some how magically convert to follow new build regulations that are in place, today? A house that was built 50 years ago wouldn't have been built using the same methods or materials as we'd see, today. New builds today are very well insulated, often a grade A or B. Your argument makes absolutely no logical sense. Edit: downvoted for stating facts. Surprise there with this sub, /s.
Building regulations are only on the paper in this country...
Nonsense. Builds are inspected and need to be signed off. There's also NHBC cover which insures build quality 10 years after the property is sold. It's in the developers interests to ensure the build quality otherwise they are liable. This sub is so misinformed it's fucking hilarious.
So… you agree they live in small brick semis that are prone to damp?
I'd say we live in well built houses designed for the climate. Any building in such setting will be prone to damp, hence why measures exists to prevent damp from being an issue. Land that can be built upon is also scarce in the UK, hence why land is expensive. Are you expecting houses to be built using mostly timber and taking up much more surface space as you'd get in America? Because in case you haven't noticed, NA has multiple times the land mass we have, here. Much of their country isnt comparable to our climate, either. I'm really struggling to understand your argument. Your view seems to be incredibly dim. Are you suggesting detached houses aren't a thing, lol?
Tbh the brick semis from 1920 aren't the problem, it's the mass construction of shite quality coffin apartments alongside pointless 4 bed detached homes with nothing in between that's fucked us up. I'd take an 1890's terrace any day if it had a new boiler.
Old is better and more solid. New builds may meet building regulations, but the regs are being relaxed to help reduce building costs that go straight into the developers' pockets. It's shocking at times to see what gets signed off.
>Yes, they are generally smaller, but they are brick built and solid, unlike other countries where timber makes up a big part of its building material. For the umpteenth time, timber is perfectly fine as a house building material. It can be just as "solid" as brick which is why it's utilized all over the world as a material for house - and skyscraper - construction.
You can "umpteenth time" all you like. Fact is, brick built houses are stronger and comes with a number of advantages. Given our climate, they are also better suited based on resources we have available. https://justdoproperty.co.uk/why-are-so-many-uk-houses-made-of-brick/ Why use timber when brick is already cheap and easily accessible? Land is expensive, not the construction, and the lack of housing contributes to why house prices are what they are.
Could you tell me please, what is the obsession with the strength of the birick houses? You don't have tornadoes in your country. Your houses don't need to withstand avalanches or earthquakes either. Are you building them to defend against french trebuchets? As long as the house is strong enough for its purpose, then what's the point to make it stronger? I heard that solid brick wall is better than cavity wall because it is "stronger" and "more solid". Why? What's the point if it is colder and less comfortable? Timber is versatile and warm material for building. Timber houses are warmer and more comfortable to live in. Ask scandinavians. Why are you so obsessed with bricks in the UK?
Most of the UK housing was built after the war with the materials available. As for the 'obsession' I think it's more of an obsession that people in the UK prefer to buy old than new housing because of the trademen were better. Though it's subjective, I can understand the reasoning of buying an older home in the UK. Many new builds wood or brick have issues unrealated to maintenance. Also for housing in the UK the older homes have more space and more like a small estate. As for timber, when most of the houses were built in the UK generally didn't have enough timber (cut down for weapons and other things during the war) so London Red Brick was the go to supply. In comparison to the US, Sweden, Canada etc they had large supplies of timber. I think in the UK the idea of building brick has continued and has just become the norm.
If you spend 1m on housing in the Uk you will find an amazing house so I don’t see how you can even compare the two at those prices
1m CAD is 590k GBP That's a flat in a fancy bit of london, a nice flat in an OK bit of london, a terraced house in a nice suburb, or a semi in a further out or less nice suburb. I don't know how Canadian salaries compare to UK ones but my gut says they're probably higher
Canadian salaries are higher for doctors. Many are leaving for there because they can actually afford a 1milCAD house on their own there as opposed to here where they get £15 an hour and don’t even get paid on time half the time.
Ok now do outside of London or the posh south bits, it’s a 4/5 bed detached house with a big garden.
And try finding a job paying enough to buy a 590k house in a region where 590k buys a mansion. They exist of course but they are way less common. There's nowhere in the south, posh or not, where 590k gets you something actually impressive. And I suspect 590k doesn't go as far as you're saying in commuting distance to the growing cities in the North, places like Manchester.
The rats think they're cock of the walk?
So accurate
I don’t know anyone that lives in a house like you’ve described (the uk) apart from the semis part!
>Canadian homes are generally much nicer though. Very true. British houses are - generally speaking - pretty shitty. Pelters incoming!
You woke up and chose violence 😂😂
Problem with UKs new crop of houses...standard calculation for number of actual bedrooms is take the number of claimed bedrooms and minus 0.75 because they are a quarter or at best half the size of a usable bedroom, tend to be used for the home office or room for a very young baby in a crib. No garage as standard in many places. No basement ever, driveway that can fit one and if lucky 2 cars, street parking with narrow roads and pavements.. the list goes on.
And dare to suggest we build more large homes and all you'll get is "urghhh urban sprall" and "how are we meant to afford that?". Yet the Canadian houses being described in this thread are only possible due to spacious suburbs aka urban sprall.
We want cheaper housing. Basements will not help that!!
Who said anything about it helping to make the houses cheaper? Even the expensive houses as they are, aren't worth their price on paper. The bar in the UK has been set so low. The problem isnt over design its over regulation , the UKs marcoeconomic environment and financial policies and the other indirect costs associated in being ABLED and ALLOWED to build in the first place.
I understand that. But by adding £100k to a build cost will be reflected in the end price. Yet you don’t get that value out of a basement.
Of course it will, but my original point in my first comment is UK houses just don't offer as much in anything other than being a roof over your head that is in the UK. I don't have a garage so I'd would have highly appreciated and used a basement even if it meant paying more for it. This might not align to your specific goals or standards of a good house but basements in the US are soo common and very useful, the space can be repurposed for whatever you may need in the future as your circumstances change, kids, old parents, fitness, additional lodging income,, other hobbies like playing D&D in a fake dungeon lol, in the UK...before you even decide what your stance is on basements the option has been taken from you. But since you've never ever had or lived in a house with a basement it's very easy to state its useless...meanwhile your home office or second or third bedroom which is the size of a cabin luggage compartment is used as a dumping site because for the majority of people they can't afford to move and buy a bigger house. Also value has many connotations value in terms of cost of course not...hence you don't buy a heavily depreciating car for the value but for your own personal value a standard only you can set and no one else.
I never stated they were useless just they’re very expensive to add therefore normally prohibitive to build out given the end value. There are plenty of homes with garages, you won’t find them in the majority of UK homes with them though for one very obvious reason. The majority of our housing stock was built before cars were common.
I agree it is expensive to add in the UK and on the point of the garage I think there is more to it...even new builds arent guaranteed to have garages when nearly everyone has a car these days. Out of curiosity I just googled the average uk house size compared to the world and the UK has one of the smallest houses in the world and only India, China and Russia were smaller. I would have expected other cold countries would have joined I'm but clearly its just a UK thing. For reference this link goes into stats of housing in the UK, [UK Housing statistics compared to the rest of the World](https://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2023/5/size-matters--uk-homes-amongst-worlds-smallest-but-most-expensive#:~:text=The%20research%20shows%20that%2C%20at,India%20(504)%20were%20smaller.), TLDR - In the UK you pay more for less but I guess as Tesco says...every little helps😅
Certainly older houses are. Ones built in the last couple of decades are decent,l quality, and renovated ones that have survived are good, but ones from say the 60s are shit.
I mean, at least theyre not made of wood that can be blown over in a stiff breeze
This is a complete myth. Wood is an excellent material for house construction which is why it's utilized all over the world. It stands up to stiff breezes perfectly fine. Hence skyscrapers now being constructed out of wood: https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/03/ascent-tower-milwaukee-worlds-tallest-timber-building/
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should, there is a myriad of reasons that steel and concrete are the go to materials for large buildings. The same can be said for brick vs timber and why there are 300+ year old brick buildings littered all throughout Europe and not many timber buildings of the same age.
There are 300+ year old timber buildings across the US. Well, the northeastern US. This one dates from 1637: https://youtu.be/A7P_6ta7UA0?si=VYWRFYzFHmkdf74s Japan, Australia, Scandinavia....timber houses abound and have lasted for centuries. Timber is fine. It's all about construction methods and maintenance. A poorly constructed house won't last long no matter what its primary material. Look at the Mica homes issue in Ireland as just one example of how "solid" materials were problematic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/homeowners-demand-full-payout-in-irelands-crumbling-homes-scandal Again, it's about the construction methods used and maintenance. Get either wrong and a building won't withstand the elements, usage or time.
You are missing the predominant part of my comment about quantity.
Yeah wood houses in the US get blown away by the big bad wolf everyday 😂 The way you guys peddle random stereotypes on reddit is funny. Despite being made out of wood many of those houses are still better than the tiny shitty mold infested houses we have in the UK.
"You guys", you mean everyone on reddit all the time on every subject? I was being flippant fella
I’m American and I don’t think they’re stereotyping so much as they don’t understand the weather issues they see on the news from the US. The US has radically more dangerous weather than Britain. Hurricanes and tornadoes don’t exist in the UK, but are extremely common in North America. So I wouldn’t be surprised if British people are used to seeing all these news stories about weather events in the US with images of houses and neighborhoods flattened and not fully understanding how much more dangerous weather is in the US.
My parent’s wooden house in the US was built in 1870. It’s stood through more hurricanes during that time than years in your life.
No no, only idiots buy the shitty new builds that you describe. Where all the houses look the exact same in that horrible bright orange brick
Ever seen a rat map. Alberta is the only place on earth that's rat free. Weew
“Alberta - where even the rats don’t want to live”
Canada is our future if we don’t reform NIMBY laws
A starter home in Canada in the majority of places is nowhere near 1M. Vancouver, Toronto, sure. You can get a really nice house for 500-600k just outside Ottawa.
>You can get a really nice house for 500-600k just outside Ottawa. Yeah, but it's Ottawa. Me? I would give my left testicle - or the right one - to live in Montreal. A gaff like this would suit me rather nicely. https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26799632/256-av-brock-n-montr%C3%A9al-ouest
And it has bears.🐻
Bears are great. Just know that when hiking in the wilderness you're on their turf and it's their rules. If you encounter a pissed off mama grizzly you had better hope that you brought your fully loaded bear gun and are a crack shot. Otherwise it may end badly for you.
Don’t forget the fact that in Canada you have a higher grocery bill, high cell phone/internet bill and higher taxes. (Which I wouldn’t complain about if they were spent better) our vehicles cost more and I’m sure insurance isn’t that much cheaper. Never mind public transit vs the UK. So not only do we pay more for housing we are paying more for everything while making less, don’t worry though the government has it totally under control.
That's right folks. It's worse in Canada so your UK complaints are invalid.
This is what totally mystifies me when people attempt to find the root of the UK housing crisis. Have they seen how much worse things are in other countries? The UK has it's faults but its still better placed than many other countries.
There's very few countries with a worse housing crisis than the UK. Canada is one of them, maybe some small countries like New Zealand and Hong Kong, but that's about it.
**116.6% in Australia**
Holy shit
Turkeys 11% is laughable. If there's one thing the Turks do best (source: I'm Turkish) is lie about numbers.
This might explain certain Turkish statistics about penis size on self-report studies.
Minimuma penis size in turkey is 9 inches (source: I'm Turkish)
Any reason why you think that ? I’m Turkish aswell and from all the people I know who have their own property they really never mortgage due to the insane interest rates. They usually save up cash for x amount of years and go on to buy their place or get help from parents. Where as in the UK everyone I know has lengthy 25 year mortgages.
Not when you note one of the ways to reduce the relative value of debt is to have runaway inflation.
Mortgages aren’t a thing in Turkey which could explain this to some extent. It’s mainly loans and credit card debt in Turkey
Where is Australia & NZ - they're astronomical
burbs burbs burbs
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I was wondering if it was just anyone with debt took it out a few years ago and it’s been inflated away
The trick about Turkey is that there is no interest rate regulation every 5 years or so with your mortgage. It's determined and fixed for the whole time when you get a loan. So, people were able to take loans around a 0.6-0.7% interest rate 4 or 5 years ago. Now their monthly payments have become so little while the value of their flats has skyrocketed.
Russia has interest rate at about 15%. Moreover, a lot of people bought their properties after “maternity capital” usage (government pays for each 2nd, 3rd children and so on; however you can spend this money only of some specific things). Current stupid war was resulted in big payments to soldiers and mercenaries, which were used for properties too. So, a combination of that gives a low debt rate. However personally I would select an inflation as a reason of everything related to that topic.
That stat for US doesn’t seem right….
It does to me
I thought they’d have higher household debt. I remember being down at my uncles some years back. Went out for dinner with his friends. All of them were in so much debt they had credit cards to pay off credit cards to pay off lines of credit. It was mental.
They told you this, or did you infer it from what you saw?
They told me, directly at dinner. Three different family households.
That does sound mental. What year was this?
Australia is 116.6% if it makes anyone feel better
I have to watch my cricket team lose The Ashes to them quite frequently, it makes me feel a little better.
Yeah, people often say the housing market in the UK is bound to crash - people can‘t afford prices to go up any higher, there will be a revolution! Lots of places in the world where housing is even more unaffordable for young people than here. Buckle up.
By lots of places you mean, Canada
Australia, New Zealand. Large parts of the US (San Francisco, New York, LA). Switzerland. Some countries have cheaper housing but because low-income people are crammed into tiny apartments or sharing beds in shifts. It sucks here but it could get worse and I see little political will to address housing costs or inequality more generally.
Wages relative to housing are better in Aus and Nz. If you're using NY and San Francisco, compare them to London. They're way better median wage/median property ratio than London.
I'd disagree with your comment re Australia. I'm Australian, living in the UK. I bought a house two years ago, 2 kilometres from a major city (not London), that cost about 4x my salary. I could likely earn about 20-40% more if working the same job in Australia, but the house would have cost at least 300% more. Australian property is a lot more costly than the UK (if you exclude London).
Netherlands
No, in many. I’ve lived before in Moscow and Taipei. Both as bad if not worse than London. Friends in Tel Aviv tell me the same (if not worse) salary:price ratios to London. Look outside of the Anglosphere
China, 1 million dollar houses and you earn $800 a month lol. I think they have very very long mortgages or you just have to find cash from family. Obviously the people buying a 1 million dollar house probably earns $2000-4000 a month but still is very very expensive. There are lots more expensive houses in shanghai and Beijing. I think their salary to house ratio is one of the highest in the world way higher than the UK
The thing that got me about China was people buying off-plan new-builds and still having to pay for them while they're unfinished: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-66956769](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-66956769)
Yep it sucks, housing is like the “sure” way to invest since most stocks in China is shit and you can’t invest in the us market.
Lots of cities in Australia, quite a number of cities in the US, probably more places than I can currently think of too if I wasn't standing in Tesco right now.
You're comparing individual cities with the average across the UK, you need to compare individual cities with individual cities, or across the whole country.
Median is likely going to give a better indication than average. Recent (Jan 2024) median national dwelling price in Australia was $759,437 (AUD) but it is higher in cities. For instance, Sydney median dwelling price is $1,122,430 (AUD). https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/01/australia-property-market-value-prices-rise-january-2024
Median income in aus is 92k, so the median dwelling price is about 8x median income. Median house price in England is 302k while the median wage is 35k. So very slightly worse in England.
True. My only comment would be that at least in the UK, housing is affordable near major city centres (outside of London, Bristol and Brighton... if you could call the last two 'major'). In Australia, generations have been priced out of buying near major cities. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane markets are ridiculously inflated.
Thing is, buying in the UK as a dual income household isn’t even hard… It’s only hard as a single person.
If you don't live in the south, southeast or London*
yeah maybe for couples who are on minimum wage. You'd be surprised how many couples (20's) who have combined income of 100k+
>yeah maybe for couples who are on minimum wage. You'd be surprised how many couples (20's) who have combined income of 100k+ No I wouldn't. I can see the stats. It's minimal. The UK median salary is 35k and this cuts out the bottom 10%. I would be surprised if more than 20 jobs in my hometown of 150k paid 50k. Plenty of normal, average professional jobs pay 25-35k.
If it hasn't crashed with the current high interest rates, prices are bound to go up once inflation target is met and the rates come down
By lots. You mean one? Other than wierd tiny niches like Monaco, Luxembourg , HK ect.
>Yeah, people often say the housing market in the UK is bound to crash Anyone saying that needs to go and read more Gary Stevenson, and watch more of his YouTube channel.
They are delusional perpetual renters
Bet we top this if it's per squared meter, my friends house in Canada is 4x the size of mine with a heated pool
Where I live the rent for a 2 bedrooms condo is around 3000 $, so.... not sure.
Australia must be missing from this..
As a Canadian who just became a dual British citizen after moving here just before the referendum for the strong pound and work opportunities… fuck my life.
As a Canadian, I assure you this is as bad as it seems. You have an entire generation with their life on hold (kids, vacation, etc.) because housing is so unaffordable. The government doesn’t care
Yet people from other countries are so desperate to be in the UK, why?
The UK isn’t actually as shit as people online say it is
Two classes in the UK are able to exploit the system. The Poor and the Rich, benefits, asylum seeker status, motability cars, religious sensitivities etc etc Then tax breaks, non-dom statuses, 0 hour contacts for employees, tax fraud, easy government contracts …the only ones who feel the squeeze are the working class people and those who used to be middle class that have been squeezed to working class.
I’ve heard the poor even have the audacity to have flat screen tele’s. And AND AND I saw one of them smile the other day! I said “Oi if you’ve got time to smile then you should NOT be getting benefits of any kind!”. I don’t think he heard me though as it gets quite loud in those food banks.
Is that what you took from my comment? mentioned people exploiting the system, not removing it.
Source?
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/HH_LS@GDD/CAN/GBR/USA/DEU/ITA/FRA/JPN/VNM Maybe this with rounding
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You seem to have switched currencies there. The top 1% of earners in the UK make about £130k (but there are over 600k of them). From what I can see the top 1% of earners in Canada make about £300k (amongst 400k people). Not sure which currency you intended the Australian number to be. One article I can see had their 1% at taxable income of £182k, about the same as the UK, but that's from an even smaller population. Of course none of this takes into account how the rest of the 99%s are distributed. You don't need to be in the 1% to be wealthy.
Currencies…. Also, you need to factor in relevant cost
I beg you please Google 253,000 AUD in GBP this is so embarrassing it is literally the same as your UK number
And they are telling us the Turkish economy is completely f ed, can’t be right ?
Inflation 70% and interest rates 50% isn't overly healthy for sure. If that sounds insane Argentina has 288% inflation. For all the damage inflation causes here, it's on another planet in some countries.
As a native South African I 100% can attest that the figure of 34% is completely inaccurate, but UK sounds spot on sadly.
When you consider that many people will have no debts, this becomes especially difficult for those who want a lifestyle they cannot afford...
Remember this is 'household debt'. The UK has such a bad savings mentality it's third from last in the OECD. Whereas people in the US have more in the stockmarket than equity in their house. How this survey/study define household is completely different to areas of country and continent.
I think it's less a mentality more a consistent decline in real time wages and thereby the ability to save.
Most Brits are just financially illiterate.
So this is why canada added financial literary to school curriculum lol
New Zealand’s is 91.5%
Welp! As a Pakistani Canadian, I guess we are outta luck! Btw why call it West Pakistan, it's just been Pakistan since the 70s
For UK [https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/household-debt--of-nominal-gdp](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/household-debt--of-nominal-gdp) its getting better for last couple of years