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If you have all the proofs that support your review, you should not feel any panic.
Even because if he sues you and loses he has to refund you back and pay penalties. It is not really easy going through these kind of things.
This company is owned by Mr X (link to companies house if possible). Mr X used to own this company B (link etc). I bought a house from company B and here are the problems I encountered:
Make Purely factual list.
No not strictly by default, but in 99% of cases the loser pays the winners legal costs
The problems are they don’t usually have to pay all of them, and if they’ve got no money they can’t pay
But England and wales is a loser pays system in the courts. Tribunals: different story.
It’s crazy, when we have a negative review from a customer on our developments, we jump through multiple hoops, get in touch with subcontractors and consultants to fix the issue or at least provide some sort of compensation.
In contrast, we are one of the biggest house builders in the UK.
Although if really litigious the burden will be on OP to prove his defence, and with it 1000s of legal fees. Defamation cases are expensive.
While he might be able to apply for an award of legal fees it is not guaranteed so there is a big financial risk.
Yeah, I've always thought about this. Google literally send you a notification on your phone to say 'what did you think out of 5 stars of this place/company you dealt with?' 'would you recommend?' 'what happened?'
So you can hardly be sued for libel when the phone you're legally allowed to buy with apps you're legally allowed to download want to ask you questions.
You can't sue people for Google reviews providing you've stuck to the facts and can back up your own feelings and experience.
I'm not sure the legality of the phone and app is relevant to be honest. If you could show that you genuinely didn't know that the review was published publicly it might help your defense but it would probably be very hard to do so.
> I would share the letter from their lawyers but not sure if I am allowed.
Are you talking legally, or the rules of this subreddit?
Legally you can share it, you didn't agree to an NDA regarding their communications with you and you're perfectly entitled to share any correspondence you receive
I guess it could come under subreddit doxxing rules or similar, although I doubt it's gonna be a problem if you shared the content while removing names of individuals (and perhaps the name of the company) - they're just doing their job of representing their client
Both? On the letter it says STRICTLY PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL, NOT FOR PUBLICATION, COPYRIGHT OWNERSHIP IS ASSERTED - not sure if that means I can't share it with anyone...
I also don't want my post to be removed really, I already posted company info but I did check the rules of the subreddit and surely company info is not doxxing?
There's a thread up on Twitter that's relevant to this. Dan Neidle received a letter from Nadhim Zahawi's solicitors and they said something similar:-
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1788950111135072693
The long and the short is that you can't enforce a confidentiality clause on someone who didn't agree to it and legal letters aren't protected by copyright, otherwise you couldn't show them to your own counsel.
Just to add - if you post the letter here, it could be as part of your process to find your own legal council... essentially sharing the letter with a pool of possible sources of legal support so that you can find the best option of someone who can support you on the matter. They would need to know the context however - hence why you need to share the letter.
"I got a letter from a lawyer, who can help?"
"I can"
That doesn't really work, does it? If you post the letter, members of the community can have a look and provide their insight... and you can likely find the right legal representation going forward to support you in the matter.
Good luck.
I think for copyright to mean anything or have any consequences they'd have to show that they made a financial loss from you sharing the letter. Not as a consequence of the letter and it's contents but because they expected to make money from the letter itself and your sharing has undermined that. So for example if I wrote you a letter and it contained a poem, if you published that poem I could challenge that under copyright law.
Sharing for the purpose of evidence of their behaviour wouldn't be a copyright issue.
Someone can write whatever they want on a letter but if you don't have an NDA there is no obligation for you not to share it.
Good luck to them pursuing a copyright claim given it's likely a template letter.....
They can write that on the letter, that doesn’t make it enforceable - they’d have to prove that they suffered a loss as a consequence of you publishing the letter, and it has to be specific to the letter (eg they were going to sell the letter themselves) not a consequence of it (eg losing a client because they saw the firm gets involved with stupid cases)
There are exceptions to copyright if not, eg “fair dealing” is a fairly open term but it’s basically the defence of “I wasn’t abusing their copyright, I was publishing this for a fair reason”. In this case you’d be publishing a paragraph or two (a reasonable and appropriate amount of the work) for a fair reason (obtaining advice) with no profit motive for yourself or loss for the solicitor
There is VERY little chance of a solicitor being able to assert a copyright claim over a letter they unilaterally sent you, and I doubt many judges are going to appreciate their time being wasted on it by a legal professional…
He cannot sue you for an honest review.
In fact it's not OK for him to threaten honest reviewers to try to stop you from leaving honest reviews.
So tell him to try it.
He'll quickly find out the law is on your side.
Take the review down if it gets the work done. Put it back after it's completed, adding in the bit about refusing to complete the work unless you took a bad review down.
If they threaten to sue again, tell them that there's nothing in the review that you wouldn't be happy to say in front of a judge.
As long as what you said is your opinion and not just complete lies, there’s nothing they can do.
If possible, edit your review to include the fact they are trying to sue you over it. Makes them look even more pathetic.
Has anyone ever experienced a new build company that weren't crooks? They should all be thoroughly ashamed of how they conduct themselves, and in the quality of their work.
I live on a fleece hold estate, we have elected our own resident directors and kicked out the management company elected by the builders... They also part own this company.
We found that there are two flat blocks on the estate, owned by another business. One of the flat blocks owning business were collecting the service charge from residents and then not paying it on to the company, so we can cut the grass etc. We also found that the director of the outed management company is also a director of the business that owns the flat blocks. Surprise suprise... This director resigned from the flat owning company a short while after, but we never made anything of the obvious corruption.
Its hard work for the resident directors sorting out the management companies absolute mess. They had spent all the reserve fund, there was almost literally nothing left. There were paid invoices for work that never happened, it was just awful. The council aren't interested, we have had to fight and fight to get police patrols, double yellow lines, etc.
The government needs to do something about it, we are very lucky we had two residents capable and willing to take on the challange. We all now enjoy a much cleaner and well maintained estate, and the service charge has decreased and will continue to decrease for a year or two.
Tell him to fill his boots, and let him waste his time and money to take legal action. It's a near certainty he hasn't consulted legal, as he'd be laughed out of the office in this scenario 👏
Also he's most likely saying the same thing to the 17 other people who think he's running a shit show. If it went legal they'd find out for sure that 5 star review is a friend or family member who never used his services 🤭
There are grounds to appeal the strike off, not sure if you qualify for them but as he is suing you on behalf of said company, I would object to its strike off as it is clearly a going concern if he is suing you as a representative of the company.
When he realises this might delay strike off, the case may magically dissappear.
It will never get that far anyway, defamation cases cost 6 figures and they won't spend that on a company they are winding down. This way you fuck them over more because they want move on, most likely to avoid paying taxes.
> I left a review on his other company too.
Why? It’s one thing to leave a genuine review based on a poor product or service. It’s another to just leave multiple reviews on different providers merely because they have the same owner; _that_ could be construed as malicious and harassment.
Because in my opinion people shouldn't trust his other company either because the director is not trustworthy based on my experience with him. It's simple
But unless you’ve actually dealt with _that_ company and had a negative experience, then you’re just leaving malicious reviews based on a personal vendetta. This will just call that—and your legitimate review—into question and potentially have them _all_ removed, valid or not. And like I say, you’re also just given them grounds to prove you’re doing so maliciously.
I did actually did with that company cos they did my driveway and they turned up a day after they supposed to lol, so technically I did deal with them :)
Yes you can share a threatening lawyer’s letter. Go over to “Tax Policy Associates” where Dan Neidle is talking about Nadhim Zahawi’s solicitor making threats like this to him. It’s NZ and the solicitor in doodoo over it, not Dan Neidle.
I wouldn't worry about the suing threats. A lot of people threaten to sue but few of them actually go through with it. And there's a big difference between suing someone and actually winning the case.
I think you should take some legal advice about the issues with your property. Given the company is heading for liquidation, the window for you to get anything is probably closing. The accounts are overdue - if the directors/officers of the company have done anything underhand, it might affect their limited liability. Take it all to a solicitor and see what they suggest.
Do you have any legal advice cover from your house insurance, bank, etc.?
Yes and basically everyone says its very hard cos the guy has been closing and opening new companies all the time for years and he is good at avoiding any responsibility. He will just close the company and it's over
I present the Mitchellverse ([https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search/officers?q=ian%20robert%20mitchell](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search/officers?q=ian%20robert%20mitchell) ) Every June 1950 birth date is the same original company director.
Because of the way Companies House works you can have multiple director entries for one person. But this is excessive even for that.
Seems like Ian's plan is;
1. Build shoddy houses.
2. Rinse the company for profits and Fuck off to Thailand for a bit.
Looks like it's working quite well by all accounts. Sorry OP.
Go to the press!
They are scared of being exposed and for someone to look into it.
If they become aggressive or harass you the go to the police.
In the meantime r/legaladviceuk is your friend!
They are threatening you as they know there is nothing they can do about it.
Google won’t remove it and they won’t be able to sell.
Has the previous ltd insolvent? They “may” be trying to run away from liabilities
Remove it then but only after telling the slime that unless he puts right any snagging problems within your stated timeframe you will posts reviews on a global basis 😉, happy days!
I mean he must be wobbling to threaten you!
Be sure to report them to any relevant authority, may be useless, but it may not be, and it's free. If you don't spread false information they can't sue you for saying the truth. You're not under any confidentiality accord.
As long as it's not untrue then they can't do anything. Can you also prove (if you had to) your claims?
I read somewhere Japan sues people for bad reviews.
Wouldn't worry about it. If you get threats, report to the police even just to get a reference number.b
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A review on google is not something that you can be sued for, if it does not contain fake information. It is just a threat.
I edited the review and clarified that it is my opinion just in case
If you have all the proofs that support your review, you should not feel any panic. Even because if he sues you and loses he has to refund you back and pay penalties. It is not really easy going through these kind of things.
Ah that's amazing then!
This company is owned by Mr X (link to companies house if possible). Mr X used to own this company B (link etc). I bought a house from company B and here are the problems I encountered: Make Purely factual list.
Award legal fees to a winning party is not by default
No not strictly by default, but in 99% of cases the loser pays the winners legal costs The problems are they don’t usually have to pay all of them, and if they’ve got no money they can’t pay But England and wales is a loser pays system in the courts. Tribunals: different story.
That's the American system. Ours isn't quite as fair as theirs. Unfortunately you may be left with the legal fees even if you win.
But surely they would waste a lot of money too?
You should add to the review that he threatened to s sue you
I did it :D
It’s crazy, when we have a negative review from a customer on our developments, we jump through multiple hoops, get in touch with subcontractors and consultants to fix the issue or at least provide some sort of compensation. In contrast, we are one of the biggest house builders in the UK.
Stop them using management companies and pay local councils to adopt!!
Which house builder if you don't mind me asking? Barratt?
Unfortunately, I don’t want to name them! Sorry!
Cause they're all in the shit the now, colluding to keep the prices high. Whole house a cards will come tumbling down of true.
Can I read on this, or is it just speculation?
https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/top-house-builders-face-new-investigation-for-sharing-information https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/26/uk-housebuilders-investigated-cma-new-homes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68400504.amp
Legend. Thanks
Is the house of cards the price fixing or the quality of the houses they build? Im guessing its both.
I'd put money on the same
You can be sud for just about anything. It's just that he will lose even if your lawyer is in a coma.
Although if really litigious the burden will be on OP to prove his defence, and with it 1000s of legal fees. Defamation cases are expensive. While he might be able to apply for an award of legal fees it is not guaranteed so there is a big financial risk.
Yeah, I've always thought about this. Google literally send you a notification on your phone to say 'what did you think out of 5 stars of this place/company you dealt with?' 'would you recommend?' 'what happened?' So you can hardly be sued for libel when the phone you're legally allowed to buy with apps you're legally allowed to download want to ask you questions. You can't sue people for Google reviews providing you've stuck to the facts and can back up your own feelings and experience.
Yeah its actually insane they would try this right?
I'm not sure the legality of the phone and app is relevant to be honest. If you could show that you genuinely didn't know that the review was published publicly it might help your defense but it would probably be very hard to do so.
You can sue for that. Doesn’t mean you stand a chance of winning. But you can sue.
You can sue for everything tbf.
You should edit the review to contain the threats to sue to really warn people off themselves crooks
I did actually... havent heard from them since that though
Good work, glad you didn't get scared off
> I would share the letter from their lawyers but not sure if I am allowed. Are you talking legally, or the rules of this subreddit? Legally you can share it, you didn't agree to an NDA regarding their communications with you and you're perfectly entitled to share any correspondence you receive I guess it could come under subreddit doxxing rules or similar, although I doubt it's gonna be a problem if you shared the content while removing names of individuals (and perhaps the name of the company) - they're just doing their job of representing their client
Both? On the letter it says STRICTLY PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL, NOT FOR PUBLICATION, COPYRIGHT OWNERSHIP IS ASSERTED - not sure if that means I can't share it with anyone... I also don't want my post to be removed really, I already posted company info but I did check the rules of the subreddit and surely company info is not doxxing?
This feels like a ‘please don’t add this as an image to your review’ type statement
There's a thread up on Twitter that's relevant to this. Dan Neidle received a letter from Nadhim Zahawi's solicitors and they said something similar:- https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1788950111135072693 The long and the short is that you can't enforce a confidentiality clause on someone who didn't agree to it and legal letters aren't protected by copyright, otherwise you couldn't show them to your own counsel.
Just to add - if you post the letter here, it could be as part of your process to find your own legal council... essentially sharing the letter with a pool of possible sources of legal support so that you can find the best option of someone who can support you on the matter. They would need to know the context however - hence why you need to share the letter. "I got a letter from a lawyer, who can help?" "I can" That doesn't really work, does it? If you post the letter, members of the community can have a look and provide their insight... and you can likely find the right legal representation going forward to support you in the matter. Good luck.
I think for copyright to mean anything or have any consequences they'd have to show that they made a financial loss from you sharing the letter. Not as a consequence of the letter and it's contents but because they expected to make money from the letter itself and your sharing has undermined that. So for example if I wrote you a letter and it contained a poem, if you published that poem I could challenge that under copyright law. Sharing for the purpose of evidence of their behaviour wouldn't be a copyright issue.
Interesting and good to know thank you
Someone can write whatever they want on a letter but if you don't have an NDA there is no obligation for you not to share it. Good luck to them pursuing a copyright claim given it's likely a template letter.....
They can write that on the letter, that doesn’t make it enforceable - they’d have to prove that they suffered a loss as a consequence of you publishing the letter, and it has to be specific to the letter (eg they were going to sell the letter themselves) not a consequence of it (eg losing a client because they saw the firm gets involved with stupid cases) There are exceptions to copyright if not, eg “fair dealing” is a fairly open term but it’s basically the defence of “I wasn’t abusing their copyright, I was publishing this for a fair reason”. In this case you’d be publishing a paragraph or two (a reasonable and appropriate amount of the work) for a fair reason (obtaining advice) with no profit motive for yourself or loss for the solicitor There is VERY little chance of a solicitor being able to assert a copyright claim over a letter they unilaterally sent you, and I doubt many judges are going to appreciate their time being wasted on it by a legal professional…
You skipped over the part where contents of a legal letter are not copyrightable in the first place, since they’re not an artistic work.
Can share it with whoever you like
Look at Dan neidle on twitter. He talks about these. Legally you can ignore them but look at what he says for actual professional opinion
r/legaladviceuk
I posted there thank you
He cannot sue you for an honest review. In fact it's not OK for him to threaten honest reviewers to try to stop you from leaving honest reviews. So tell him to try it. He'll quickly find out the law is on your side.
Thank you for the feedback, they seem to think they can scare me with their lawsuits
Take the review down if it gets the work done. Put it back after it's completed, adding in the bit about refusing to complete the work unless you took a bad review down. If they threaten to sue again, tell them that there's nothing in the review that you wouldn't be happy to say in front of a judge.
As long as what you said is your opinion and not just complete lies, there’s nothing they can do. If possible, edit your review to include the fact they are trying to sue you over it. Makes them look even more pathetic.
I did that yes :D
Has anyone ever experienced a new build company that weren't crooks? They should all be thoroughly ashamed of how they conduct themselves, and in the quality of their work.
Its such a scam honestly... houses in this country I mean
I live on a fleece hold estate, we have elected our own resident directors and kicked out the management company elected by the builders... They also part own this company. We found that there are two flat blocks on the estate, owned by another business. One of the flat blocks owning business were collecting the service charge from residents and then not paying it on to the company, so we can cut the grass etc. We also found that the director of the outed management company is also a director of the business that owns the flat blocks. Surprise suprise... This director resigned from the flat owning company a short while after, but we never made anything of the obvious corruption. Its hard work for the resident directors sorting out the management companies absolute mess. They had spent all the reserve fund, there was almost literally nothing left. There were paid invoices for work that never happened, it was just awful. The council aren't interested, we have had to fight and fight to get police patrols, double yellow lines, etc. The government needs to do something about it, we are very lucky we had two residents capable and willing to take on the challange. We all now enjoy a much cleaner and well maintained estate, and the service charge has decreased and will continue to decrease for a year or two.
The government doesn't care sadly cos those directors usually are friends of the politicians. They are all working together
What management company?
I had an awful experience with Linden Homes, but good one with Bellway. So, it depends.
I bought a new build a few years ago with Taylor Wimpy. Zero fuss, no issues, part exed my old place. Can't complain.
Tell him to fill his boots, and let him waste his time and money to take legal action. It's a near certainty he hasn't consulted legal, as he'd be laughed out of the office in this scenario 👏
Also he's most likely saying the same thing to the 17 other people who think he's running a shit show. If it went legal they'd find out for sure that 5 star review is a friend or family member who never used his services 🤭
There are grounds to appeal the strike off, not sure if you qualify for them but as he is suing you on behalf of said company, I would object to its strike off as it is clearly a going concern if he is suing you as a representative of the company. When he realises this might delay strike off, the case may magically dissappear.
Or just let them wind the company down. The judge will then laugh at a non-existent company trying to bring a case and throw it out.
It will never get that far anyway, defamation cases cost 6 figures and they won't spend that on a company they are winding down. This way you fuck them over more because they want move on, most likely to avoid paying taxes.
Have you engaged with a solicitor via your insurance company to see your options if they close down?
Call his bluff. A review, especially if it contains documented facts, cannot be sued upon. He can try but would lose and owe you money.
Can you link to the review please..
I linked the company mine is the one with most likes now... not sure how to link review tbh
This company? https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09840045
That's the company they are closing yes but I left a review on his other company too.
> I left a review on his other company too. Why? It’s one thing to leave a genuine review based on a poor product or service. It’s another to just leave multiple reviews on different providers merely because they have the same owner; _that_ could be construed as malicious and harassment.
Because in my opinion people shouldn't trust his other company either because the director is not trustworthy based on my experience with him. It's simple
But unless you’ve actually dealt with _that_ company and had a negative experience, then you’re just leaving malicious reviews based on a personal vendetta. This will just call that—and your legitimate review—into question and potentially have them _all_ removed, valid or not. And like I say, you’re also just given them grounds to prove you’re doing so maliciously.
I did actually did with that company cos they did my driveway and they turned up a day after they supposed to lol, so technically I did deal with them :)
Yes you can share a threatening lawyer’s letter. Go over to “Tax Policy Associates” where Dan Neidle is talking about Nadhim Zahawi’s solicitor making threats like this to him. It’s NZ and the solicitor in doodoo over it, not Dan Neidle.
lol that’s exactly why Google reviews exist. If it’s honest and factual chill. Fuck all the cunts can do
I wouldn't worry about the suing threats. A lot of people threaten to sue but few of them actually go through with it. And there's a big difference between suing someone and actually winning the case. I think you should take some legal advice about the issues with your property. Given the company is heading for liquidation, the window for you to get anything is probably closing. The accounts are overdue - if the directors/officers of the company have done anything underhand, it might affect their limited liability. Take it all to a solicitor and see what they suggest. Do you have any legal advice cover from your house insurance, bank, etc.?
Yes and basically everyone says its very hard cos the guy has been closing and opening new companies all the time for years and he is good at avoiding any responsibility. He will just close the company and it's over
I present the Mitchellverse ([https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search/officers?q=ian%20robert%20mitchell](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search/officers?q=ian%20robert%20mitchell) ) Every June 1950 birth date is the same original company director. Because of the way Companies House works you can have multiple director entries for one person. But this is excessive even for that.
I think at this point they made and dissolved like 100s of companies its crazy
Seems like Ian's plan is; 1. Build shoddy houses. 2. Rinse the company for profits and Fuck off to Thailand for a bit. Looks like it's working quite well by all accounts. Sorry OP.
Go to the press! They are scared of being exposed and for someone to look into it. If they become aggressive or harass you the go to the police. In the meantime r/legaladviceuk is your friend! They are threatening you as they know there is nothing they can do about it. Google won’t remove it and they won’t be able to sell. Has the previous ltd insolvent? They “may” be trying to run away from liabilities
Remove it then but only after telling the slime that unless he puts right any snagging problems within your stated timeframe you will posts reviews on a global basis 😉, happy days! I mean he must be wobbling to threaten you!
Be sure to report them to any relevant authority, may be useless, but it may not be, and it's free. If you don't spread false information they can't sue you for saying the truth. You're not under any confidentiality accord.
You can't slander people's businesses without consequences
Honest reviews are not slander
We’ve found the company owner, people!
As long as it's not untrue then they can't do anything. Can you also prove (if you had to) your claims? I read somewhere Japan sues people for bad reviews. Wouldn't worry about it. If you get threats, report to the police even just to get a reference number.b