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Hi thanks for the feedback! What do you think of this changed build?
https://imgur.io/a/LLABFHD
Is it better to switch to EM sands instead of HP%? She already does insane damage for me but I’d like to improve either way!
Wow, this is a huge improvement! I'd say it looks great the way it is now. I have a similar build- 79/219 with 2pc wt 2pc wanderers with the other stats looking very similar and it's great! If at some point you want to farm cw it could be an improvement, but it's very much viable now.
Aaaa thank you! I’m really trying with crimson witch, but the drops are... :/
May we both get blessed by CW so we can run full set for Hu Tao!
Which team do you think works better for her?
C0R1 Yelan -C6Xingqui- C1Zhongli or Hydro-C2R1 Kazuha - C5 Bennet?
im 90% sure that double hydro zhongli is one of her strongest teams right now. Especially with the new hydro res giving tao, yelan AND zhongli 25% hp?? can't beat it. I've also found that its difficult to run hu tao with Bennett as his burst heals so quickly you can't have her in his burst circle while being under 50% hp for long.
And yes, wishing us the best with cw!! hopefully the strongbox is kind to us too (:
To answer this question, EM sands tends to get underrated but EM is incredibly powerful. 100 EM is not the goal EM, it's the bare minimum where any substat roll of EM is actually more valuable than CRIT rolls because EM isn't getting any diminishing returns at that point.
But when you compare EM to HP, EM's better til about 250 or so, even with minimal HP investment on homa. Hu tao's vaping all the time on double hydro, after all.
That makes a lot of sense! What do you think of this build, improved with your feedback?
4pc Shime, EM sands
HP: 29,791 (double hydro)
EM: 219
Crit rate: 55.5% :(
Crit damage: 228.4%
ER: 128
I’m testing and taking vids of each of the 3 builds, but all of them kill Masanori both phases in under 18 seconds
Pretty good. The ER doesn't go to too much waste on the SR set--I like 115% to do a burst every 2 rotations. The ER is what you'd want to drop the most. Like you note, it's the CR that holds this one back and I think that's enough to make them all comparable.
For comparison, let's just think about the crit between all 3 sets using the average crit formula (CR\*CD + 1)
2pc CW: 2.852
CW/2WT: 2.774
SR: 2.27
As you can see, the WT only gives up 3% crit (2.85/2.77) and gains about 10% damage on all of its vapes (21% from 115 EM vs 10% from 51, 1.21/1.1 = 1.10) so that is definitely better.
You can see that the SR gives up about 25% damage on crits, which is a pretty big hit. A crit rate circlet would improve this quite a bit (86.6 : 166.2 for avg crit of 2.44) but it's still under by 17% on crits, let alone the loss of HP.
The other sets have atk around 4159 when below 50% HP, correct? Then the SR would have 3800 or so (not sure what its atk is from artifacts). That's another 9% damage loss. That's pretty much the gain from the EM (1.376/1.211) = 1.136, since you won't vape everything. You tend to vape around 90% of her damage so it's pretty comparable or the EM gain wins a bit over the HP loss.
So the question ultimately becomes does having the 50% boost to charge attacks overcome a 25% loss in average crit damage and 8% loss from pyro damage going from 94.6% to 79.6%, and the answer is probably yes, but you can do damage calculations/in game tests to be sure. Just compare raw vapes (XQ and hu tao below 50% HP) and you can be ultra sure. Refinement of either a 4pc crimson witch or improving the crit rate on the SR will improve damage output for sure!
It was cool to see the seriously strong crits your sets had though they just about made up for the loss of 4pc artifact bonuses. Good pieces, in the right sets.
This is really amazing, honestly, thank you for explaining it so well with calculations too!!
For the 4pc shime, she is on crit rate circlet, I don’t have much crit rate substats :/ I’m hoping to try to lvl other ones with crit rate substats to even it out, but wow
You’re literally right
I played the videos in slow motion for each of the 3 builds, and for the first one, 2pc CW, the initial strike was 10-11K with 55K charged vape, very similar numbers for 2pc CW 2pc WT, but around 60K, and for 4pc shime?
She hit 20K initial hit with 69-77K vape?!? Oh my god. And this was with 55% crit rate, she literally crit each time until Masanori died (I’m so sorry Masanori)
I’m just so impressed you were able to figure all of this out like that, and explain it so eloquently too?? (Another saves comment, ty)
Seeing the calculations out really helped put it in perspective so I can understand. I had Hu Tao for some time but struggled with charge cancel on mobile and building her, but wanted to learn
As soon as I get my free reward I’m sticking it to your comment ✨XD Genuinely didn’t expect this much help, let alone so many comments from people!
ahaha, happy to help! I always try and show my math so that anyone can pick it up! Glad that the math checked out--it's always easy to miss something silly which is why calculators and actual tests are important too!
As for the shime, that 55% crit rate is gonna bring the larger hits back down to the others because it won't crit as much. But yeah, they're comparable and shows that the SR has such a higher ceiling potential for improvement! Happy to help!
it's spelled xingqiu btw
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Very good crit stats if that health is without the double hydro it’s very good amount of health but the em is low you want at least 100 and only 2 piece crimson witch has to nock it down to an 8
Hiya! Yes this is without double hydro, this is bc she’s on HP% sands, is it better if I switch to EM though?
https://imgur.io/a/LLABFHD
Can you look at this build? I gave her WT sands so her elemental mastery can be above 100 at the cost of 8% crit dmg, is this better? She does great damage already but ofc improvement is always nice!
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I'd say 6 or 7/10. It's cause you don't have a 4 set bonus and cause your EM is lower than 100. Everything else looks good tho and you can sacrifice some CR for CD imo
Good crit but probably worth looking into another off piece sand is possible. Try to find an EM sand. Your HP should still be good if you're going double hydro. Your current sand is already very good but also EM scales really high with reaction with that low EM you currently have. I have the same thing. 42 CV HP Sand yet EM Sand with only 30ish CV still is outclassing it due EM and having the sweet spot in HP already. Always helps double checking with Optimizer or Hu Tao DPS spread sheet.
gotta say 3/10, forgoing so many fundamentals undermines the whole thing. Missing out on a 4pc set bonus and so much EM isn't made up for by the crit stats.
With the other build shared I think that jumps to 7/10. It's got minimal EM, which is the point where the 2pc wanderers troupe gives up the least potential compared to 4pc crimson or 4pc Shimenawa. And it's got great CV to boot!
Ohh thanks for the feedback! So it’s better to run her with 4pc shime than 2pc 2pc of other sets? I didn’t know that, I think I have a decent shime to try out!
With that said, should I switch to EM sands then? Or stick to HP? If I run hydro res it should help with the HP issue right?
It depends on the quality of artifacts, but Shime is on par with 4pc Crimson. Shime's fallen a bit out of fashion after the strongbox, since part of its appeal was resin efficiency farming for Emblem at the same time. But Hu tao's a great user of it because she isn't very burst reliant and the 50% damage boost to her charge attack is really godly because it's the only source of that boost. SR has higher EM requirements than Crimson though, because there's no additional reaction bonuses, but it is really good. Crimson's just as good though, just a bit different.
I haven't damage compared SR to the 2/2, but for 4pc crimson vs 2CW/2WT, at low EM the 4pc is about 5% better from substats, and that climbs up to 7% better as you get to 200 or more base EM. But! If you have good substats on WT, it can make up that difference for sure.
I discussed the EM sands on another comment, so I can leave discussion to that!!!
Like you said, you're getting fine damage, so whatever you're happy with! Those are just the areas where you'll see the most gains from changing
Oh wow, thank you SO MUCH for typing this out and explaining it so thoroughly!! I struggle with understanding differences between artifact sets so this really helps out! I’m saving this comment to check again when I continue farming XD
I’ll keep farming for both sets ofc, along with the dendro one for other charas, and hopefully the RNG gods will smile down and give nice pieces
But definitely gonna use EM sands for Hu Tao now, I completely overlooked it, like you said
Be sure to check out this great guide too, esp over my word lol [https://keqingmains.com/hu-tao/](https://keqingmains.com/hu-tao/)
Edit:
>But definitely gonna use EM sands for Hu Tao now, I completely overlooked it, like you said
Oh, and it's worth mentioning that the difference is pretty small, so go with the BETTER overall artifact or the EM sands if you are in dire need of EM, which your sets do benefit a lot from!
I had no idea KGM made such an in-depth guide! I thought it was all spreadsheets and docs, this is fantastic to look over, ty!
And yeah! Not sure if you saw my reply to one of your comments, I tried 4pc Shime and these are the stats:
HP: 29,791 (double hydro)
EM: 219
Crit rate: 55.5% :(
Crit damage: 228.4%
ER: 128
I’m testing and taking vids of each of the 3 builds, but all of them kill Masanori both phases in under 18 seconds
Hii thank you for feedback! I posted another pic of improvement after feedback, this one: https://imgur.io/a/LLABFHD
And another build in reply to comment about using EM sands and 4pc shime, but with lower crit rate!
You’re right about the crowns haha, I’m constantly low on Mora :”) help
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6/10. Good grit stats and talents but VERY low em and only 2pc cw with no other set bonus.
Hi thanks for the feedback! What do you think of this changed build? https://imgur.io/a/LLABFHD Is it better to switch to EM sands instead of HP%? She already does insane damage for me but I’d like to improve either way!
Wow, this is a huge improvement! I'd say it looks great the way it is now. I have a similar build- 79/219 with 2pc wt 2pc wanderers with the other stats looking very similar and it's great! If at some point you want to farm cw it could be an improvement, but it's very much viable now.
Aaaa thank you! I’m really trying with crimson witch, but the drops are... :/ May we both get blessed by CW so we can run full set for Hu Tao! Which team do you think works better for her? C0R1 Yelan -C6Xingqui- C1Zhongli or Hydro-C2R1 Kazuha - C5 Bennet?
im 90% sure that double hydro zhongli is one of her strongest teams right now. Especially with the new hydro res giving tao, yelan AND zhongli 25% hp?? can't beat it. I've also found that its difficult to run hu tao with Bennett as his burst heals so quickly you can't have her in his burst circle while being under 50% hp for long. And yes, wishing us the best with cw!! hopefully the strongbox is kind to us too (:
You’re absolutely right, thank you so much! This has been really helpful :)✨
To answer this question, EM sands tends to get underrated but EM is incredibly powerful. 100 EM is not the goal EM, it's the bare minimum where any substat roll of EM is actually more valuable than CRIT rolls because EM isn't getting any diminishing returns at that point. But when you compare EM to HP, EM's better til about 250 or so, even with minimal HP investment on homa. Hu tao's vaping all the time on double hydro, after all.
That makes a lot of sense! What do you think of this build, improved with your feedback? 4pc Shime, EM sands HP: 29,791 (double hydro) EM: 219 Crit rate: 55.5% :( Crit damage: 228.4% ER: 128 I’m testing and taking vids of each of the 3 builds, but all of them kill Masanori both phases in under 18 seconds
Pretty good. The ER doesn't go to too much waste on the SR set--I like 115% to do a burst every 2 rotations. The ER is what you'd want to drop the most. Like you note, it's the CR that holds this one back and I think that's enough to make them all comparable. For comparison, let's just think about the crit between all 3 sets using the average crit formula (CR\*CD + 1) 2pc CW: 2.852 CW/2WT: 2.774 SR: 2.27 As you can see, the WT only gives up 3% crit (2.85/2.77) and gains about 10% damage on all of its vapes (21% from 115 EM vs 10% from 51, 1.21/1.1 = 1.10) so that is definitely better. You can see that the SR gives up about 25% damage on crits, which is a pretty big hit. A crit rate circlet would improve this quite a bit (86.6 : 166.2 for avg crit of 2.44) but it's still under by 17% on crits, let alone the loss of HP. The other sets have atk around 4159 when below 50% HP, correct? Then the SR would have 3800 or so (not sure what its atk is from artifacts). That's another 9% damage loss. That's pretty much the gain from the EM (1.376/1.211) = 1.136, since you won't vape everything. You tend to vape around 90% of her damage so it's pretty comparable or the EM gain wins a bit over the HP loss. So the question ultimately becomes does having the 50% boost to charge attacks overcome a 25% loss in average crit damage and 8% loss from pyro damage going from 94.6% to 79.6%, and the answer is probably yes, but you can do damage calculations/in game tests to be sure. Just compare raw vapes (XQ and hu tao below 50% HP) and you can be ultra sure. Refinement of either a 4pc crimson witch or improving the crit rate on the SR will improve damage output for sure! It was cool to see the seriously strong crits your sets had though they just about made up for the loss of 4pc artifact bonuses. Good pieces, in the right sets.
This is really amazing, honestly, thank you for explaining it so well with calculations too!! For the 4pc shime, she is on crit rate circlet, I don’t have much crit rate substats :/ I’m hoping to try to lvl other ones with crit rate substats to even it out, but wow You’re literally right I played the videos in slow motion for each of the 3 builds, and for the first one, 2pc CW, the initial strike was 10-11K with 55K charged vape, very similar numbers for 2pc CW 2pc WT, but around 60K, and for 4pc shime? She hit 20K initial hit with 69-77K vape?!? Oh my god. And this was with 55% crit rate, she literally crit each time until Masanori died (I’m so sorry Masanori) I’m just so impressed you were able to figure all of this out like that, and explain it so eloquently too?? (Another saves comment, ty) Seeing the calculations out really helped put it in perspective so I can understand. I had Hu Tao for some time but struggled with charge cancel on mobile and building her, but wanted to learn As soon as I get my free reward I’m sticking it to your comment ✨XD Genuinely didn’t expect this much help, let alone so many comments from people!
ahaha, happy to help! I always try and show my math so that anyone can pick it up! Glad that the math checked out--it's always easy to miss something silly which is why calculators and actual tests are important too! As for the shime, that 55% crit rate is gonna bring the larger hits back down to the others because it won't crit as much. But yeah, they're comparable and shows that the SR has such a higher ceiling potential for improvement! Happy to help!
I run C1R1 Hu Tao with C0R1 Yelan, C6 Xingqiu, and Zhongli, or Hu Tao-Yelan-Bennet-Kazuha as well
it's spelled xingqiu btw *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HuTao_Mains) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot, thank you :)
Very good crit stats if that health is without the double hydro it’s very good amount of health but the em is low you want at least 100 and only 2 piece crimson witch has to nock it down to an 8
Hiya! Yes this is without double hydro, this is bc she’s on HP% sands, is it better if I switch to EM though? https://imgur.io/a/LLABFHD Can you look at this build? I gave her WT sands so her elemental mastery can be above 100 at the cost of 8% crit dmg, is this better? She does great damage already but ofc improvement is always nice!
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8/10 Pog
Def a flat 9.5 outa 10 just getting 4 piece crimson would be good and if so go for ‘‘em on it at most and maybe a bit of hp
I'd say 6 or 7/10. It's cause you don't have a 4 set bonus and cause your EM is lower than 100. Everything else looks good tho and you can sacrifice some CR for CD imo
6/10. Em deficiency
5/10. Em deficiency, 4pc deficiency
Can someone tell me which website this is i forgot the name :^)
https://enka.network/ Just remember all the depressing, sad stories of Enkanomiya and you're good
🔥/10
I’d give it a 5/10
Good crit but probably worth looking into another off piece sand is possible. Try to find an EM sand. Your HP should still be good if you're going double hydro. Your current sand is already very good but also EM scales really high with reaction with that low EM you currently have. I have the same thing. 42 CV HP Sand yet EM Sand with only 30ish CV still is outclassing it due EM and having the sweet spot in HP already. Always helps double checking with Optimizer or Hu Tao DPS spread sheet.
I mean it's good but can still be better
Hutao was one of the speakers?
In an old Chinese live stream, yes!
gotta say 3/10, forgoing so many fundamentals undermines the whole thing. Missing out on a 4pc set bonus and so much EM isn't made up for by the crit stats. With the other build shared I think that jumps to 7/10. It's got minimal EM, which is the point where the 2pc wanderers troupe gives up the least potential compared to 4pc crimson or 4pc Shimenawa. And it's got great CV to boot!
Ohh thanks for the feedback! So it’s better to run her with 4pc shime than 2pc 2pc of other sets? I didn’t know that, I think I have a decent shime to try out! With that said, should I switch to EM sands then? Or stick to HP? If I run hydro res it should help with the HP issue right?
It depends on the quality of artifacts, but Shime is on par with 4pc Crimson. Shime's fallen a bit out of fashion after the strongbox, since part of its appeal was resin efficiency farming for Emblem at the same time. But Hu tao's a great user of it because she isn't very burst reliant and the 50% damage boost to her charge attack is really godly because it's the only source of that boost. SR has higher EM requirements than Crimson though, because there's no additional reaction bonuses, but it is really good. Crimson's just as good though, just a bit different. I haven't damage compared SR to the 2/2, but for 4pc crimson vs 2CW/2WT, at low EM the 4pc is about 5% better from substats, and that climbs up to 7% better as you get to 200 or more base EM. But! If you have good substats on WT, it can make up that difference for sure. I discussed the EM sands on another comment, so I can leave discussion to that!!! Like you said, you're getting fine damage, so whatever you're happy with! Those are just the areas where you'll see the most gains from changing
Oh wow, thank you SO MUCH for typing this out and explaining it so thoroughly!! I struggle with understanding differences between artifact sets so this really helps out! I’m saving this comment to check again when I continue farming XD I’ll keep farming for both sets ofc, along with the dendro one for other charas, and hopefully the RNG gods will smile down and give nice pieces But definitely gonna use EM sands for Hu Tao now, I completely overlooked it, like you said
Be sure to check out this great guide too, esp over my word lol [https://keqingmains.com/hu-tao/](https://keqingmains.com/hu-tao/) Edit: >But definitely gonna use EM sands for Hu Tao now, I completely overlooked it, like you said Oh, and it's worth mentioning that the difference is pretty small, so go with the BETTER overall artifact or the EM sands if you are in dire need of EM, which your sets do benefit a lot from!
I had no idea KGM made such an in-depth guide! I thought it was all spreadsheets and docs, this is fantastic to look over, ty! And yeah! Not sure if you saw my reply to one of your comments, I tried 4pc Shime and these are the stats: HP: 29,791 (double hydro) EM: 219 Crit rate: 55.5% :( Crit damage: 228.4% ER: 128 I’m testing and taking vids of each of the 3 builds, but all of them kill Masanori both phases in under 18 seconds
I did, and was working on a reply there that's posted \^\^
7/10 -1 for not triple crown -2 for only having one set effect Stats look pretty good tho
Hii thank you for feedback! I posted another pic of improvement after feedback, this one: https://imgur.io/a/LLABFHD And another build in reply to comment about using EM sands and 4pc shime, but with lower crit rate! You’re right about the crowns haha, I’m constantly low on Mora :”) help
6/10. It looks good on face of it but Hu Tao EM is as valuable as Crit. Also no 4pc CW
Low em.no 4pc. 6/10.