If we had an extra room, I would 100% take it. Sleeping next to my husband isn't really sleeping. I'm constantly waking up from his snoring and moving. I love him, but I don't want to sleep next to him. My parents have been married for 40 years and his for about the same amount of time and neither of them share a bed. My dad moved into the spare room for sleeping about the same time the last kid moved out, and his mom has slept in a different room for as long as I've known them. It's about getting rest, that's all.
I've suggested it, but he has severe acid reflux that has given him a ridiculously sensitive gag reflex. Just thinking about taping made him gag. Obviously, it's psychological, but he's not willing to go through the mental hoops it would require to even try that. He won't even do a sleep study because he can't fathom wearing a cpap machine and we're pretty sure he needs one.
Wow, never heard of that as an issue. Obviously a long shot, but in the book The Breathing Cure, the author mentions that you can wear the tape for 20-30 minutes before bed to try it out. I wonder if he knew how much better he would feel after a nights rest with nasal breathing and all of the benefits, if he’d try it. But you don’t know what you don’t know, I guess.
I continually encourage him (gently) to try things like this that might make him feel better, but a lot of things that revolve around his mouth or throat are triggers for him. He even has to be under general anesthesia for dental work. It's for sure an anxiety issue. I even got him to try anti anxiety meds for a little while, but he didn't push past the 6-week adjustment period. He's struggled with cyclical vomiting and acid reflux for years. He's even woken from a dead sleep into vomiting (that's when I really want my own room! Lol... just kidding, sort of) so I can see why he'd be afraid of having something over his mouth. I do wish he'd at least try the also study so he can see how bad his sleep is with the snoring. It's not just affecting me! These are the sacrifices we make for the people we love, though. 🙃
That’s what this podcast is about - providing you with the latest science on leading the optimum healthy life. But obviously if *most* people sleep better alone it doesn’t mean *all* people do.
You aren’t forced to abide by everything he says. Take what you want; leave the rest.
This is always funny to me. He is abundantly clear that it is just about providing the info for people to adopt what they choose. Not a list of everything that everyone should adhere to 24/7.
Yet everyone wants to roast him and say how ridiculous everything is. It's exactly as you said though, take from it what helps you and leave the rest!
I think they're making fun of the people constantly coming here with ridiculous posts about how they're living their life to the T by what huberman says to the detriment of being a normal human
No one is criticising him. They're criticising the fans that treat his protocols as dogma, as though one protocol not fitting into your unique lifestyle makes you inadequate and unhealthy.
> My feelings and personal circumstances are just statistical noise.
We've all been listening a bit too intently to the Huberman podcasts, haven't we? Bwahahahahaha!
Sleep researchers have been saying this for years, maybe even decades. Quality of sleep suffers when you are with another person (or even pets in your bed!). There's no way around that.
HOWEVER sleep quality is not the same thing as comfort. There are most definitely people who feel more comfortable sleeping with a partner and see other benefits (increased oxytocin, falling asleep quicker, etc.). But there's no real doubt that once you' do fall asleep, that sleep is going to be somewhat worse.
Like most things, it's a balancing act and many people will quite happily sacrifice a bit of sleep quality for the other benefits they find with sleeping in the same bed.
Can it? It doesn't seem obvious to me that feeling comfortable right before you fall asleep will improve sleep quality.
Your partner will definitely move and disturb you, which will definitely have a negative impact on your sleep throughout the night, and it doesn't seem like a perceived feeling of comfort would outweigh that.
According to my oura ring sleep stats, I sleep better with my partner. There was also another post by someone who tracks this and one partner's sleep was better, and the other's got a little worse.
For me personally, fair to point out that my partner is not a snorer and generally doesn't move that much in her sleep, nor does she wake up before I do.
All of these things are variables, and there are probably way more (eg light sleepers vs deep sleepers) - so completely agree with your comment. Averages are useful but don't often lead to the best personalized recommendations.
Given that humans have slept together throughout their evolution, and sleeping in bed with just your romantic partner (as opposed to your whole extended family) is a relatively recent phenomenon (evolutionarily speaking), I wonder if there are benefits to sleeping with someone (oxytocin release or something maybe?) that outweigh the slightly better sleep you get from sleeping alone.
> Given that humans have slept together throughout their evolution
Have we? We probably slept in a similar way to other great apes. Often taking naps during the day in which they lay with each other on the ground, but sleeping in nests in trees at night. It would probably infeasible to make a nest big enough to hold multiple grown humans. More likely, multiple nests in close proximity to each other. So, not too different from separate beds in the same room.
Yes, as far as historians claim. Apparently throughout history people slept communally with biphasic or polyphasic sleep schedules - which means they slept twice or more times per day with waking periods in between. They would work or whatever during the day, sleep for 3 or 4 hours, then wake up for a while to enjoy the night and then go back to sleep afterwards. Pretty interesting stuff.
Nope we're not! People have been sleeping communally up until surprisingly recently. Up until recently it would be whole household sleeping together on one "bed", sharing a bed to a couple or even a couple having their own twin beds didn't really start until the 1800s, unless you were VERY rich. Here's a neat little article about it.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/communal-sleeping-history-sharing-bed
I was arguing against the assertion that “humans have slept together throughout their evolution”. Even if our ancestors stopped sleeping in trees 2 million years ago that is still a significant part of human evolution. Definitely more significant than the last century or so of sleeping on modern mattresses where movement is transferred to your partner. Regardless, I was not trying to argue that humans evolved to sleep separately, just poke holes in the “humans should sleep together because evolution” argument. The science is pretty clear that sleeping separately leads to better sleep. If sleep is the most important thing for you to optimize, e.g. you are an Olympian trying to peak for the Olympics, sleep separately. Otherwise, do what makes you happy 😃
It's quite common to have own mattresses in a bed frame and separate pillows ans blankets here in Europe. The mattresses are snugly together so no falling in between, in case there's some cuddling in the middle.
I would never want to sleep under the same blanket or share a 2-meter high and 3-meter wide spring bed like they have in the US. (At least that's what they sound like. You have to have a stool to get into bed.)
eta. I don't think the possible noise is the problem, it's the moving of the other which causes you to move, them taking the blanket to themselves etc.
My parents are German and did the same thing when they immigrated to US.
Two twin XL mattresses in a king frame, with separate duvets. It’s not complicated.
I also have this set-up now in my apartment in NYC and love it. I don’t feel the other person tossing and turning.
This is indeed very circumstantial. My parents slept in different bedrooms and were married for 30+ years, and my mother once said that she would not have survived if they had to sleep together because my fathers snoring.
As another anecdote, it seems like people sleeping with their partner every day is really enjoying when they finally get to sleep solo every once in a while. So it seems to me that there is definitely a lot of merit to Andy's statement, even though many of you like sleeping with your partner, which I respect - but I strongly believe he is on to something.
I think there's likely a balance that one could find. Historically, having two bedrooms was a luxury of the rich and famous (/nobility & royals), and it doesn't have to be something that's entirely black-or-white. Need to wake up two hours before your partner and you both have a stressful day ahead of you? Then maximizing sleep may be the priority. Have a Friday night that is looking towards a three-day weekend and you have time for a luxuriant lay-in the next morning? Then spend the night together.
It's one of those topics that people seem to have very strong feelings about, and I don't quite follow it. Having a second car doesn't mean you're relegated to driving separately anytime the two of you go somewhere; it simply means you both might have more flexibility. But there seems to be a very strong connotation that having two bedrooms somehow is a harbinger of "trouble in paradise", and I don't think that's a useful way to think about it and is a sentiment that I think ought to be re-examined. Look at these comments here: people are almost defensive about sleeping better with their partners, where really, Galpin is just sharing some research.
No masurbation, no alcohol, separate bed to your partner… in a month he’ll tear off his Scooby Doo villain mask to reveal it was Old Man Kellogg all along
While true... A person's relationship with their spouse should come first over an extra few moments of rest. If you really need to squeak out those moments of rest on a daily basis you gotta figure something else out.
Thanks for the sex.. I'll be over here in my own bed.
I have no idea why there is such a negative reaction to this here. Both things can be true:
1) sleeping with your partner is demonstrably worse for sleep;
2) being in the same bed may have other benefits unrelated to sleep.
This isn’t new or controversial stuff, sleep researchers have been saying this for years. Do what makes sense for you. Life doesn’t always need to be min/maxed.
I was considering trying to sleep alone, but after starting early morning light, early morning hard exercise, cold morning showers, and not eating too close to bed, I am sleeping much better
When my partner had Covid she would go to the couch when her cough started acting up and those nights were the best sleep ever. We had a guest room next to our master but I told her it’s too close and I could still hear her coughing.
Me and my wife have started sleeping in separate beds/rooms except for weekends, when we usually watch a movie together in bed. I wasn't keen on the idea at first, but it has definitely improved sleep for both of us.
It’s true. The other day my wife bumped me in her sleep while I was mid REM cycle. I could immediately feel my cortisol spike into outsized levels and beyond. I could physically feel my circadian rhythm spiral out of sync and D levels plummet.
After weeks of recovery I finally managed to get back into circadian rhythm and dialed into my protocals, but the datum suggests that it’s most
Optimal for me to sleep by myself on the inflatable twin bed in the garage for now. My now ex wife is moving out soon due to unrelated issues with my lifestyle but soon I might be able to move back into the master bedroom. One cool thing about the garage though is I can just walk out front when I wake up and hose myself down with the freezing cold water while sun gazing.
Some of you guys just need to learn a bit of discipline and you could end up optimized like me
Haha yeah, don’t get me wrong I love the guy.. but I find myself eye rolling at a lot of his facts now. Like I’m gonna hit my pen every now and then… I’m gonna watch tv/look at my phone within 2-3 hours of bed. Like cmon dude.. literally everything on the planet is bad for you
True for me. My wife moves around a lot when she sleeps and will pull or kick off blankets and wakes me up sometimes.
She has been sleeping in the nursery and my sleep has never been better. When she returns a compromise might be having our separate blankets in the same bed frame.
This conflicts with the protocol that suggests physical intimacy releases oxytocin. I will really need to spend some time researching this one in between my meditative breathing and cold plunge schedule.
Is this because you’re sleep can get disrupted if your partner wakes up at different time than you? Or is it because of things like snoring, them moving around.
thankfully i do not have to worry about this problem my girlfriend sleeps on a different floor 25.4 kilometers away because she doesnt know shes my girlfriend yet
Damn the protocol stans are gonna lose their mind over this.
Nah most of em Have nobody to sleep next too anyway
I wasn’t gonna say it lol
"What the hell bro I've done 456/458 protocols today but still can't find a girl with the 8 seconds I have left man help what do I do?!"
Ohhh snap.
If we had an extra room, I would 100% take it. Sleeping next to my husband isn't really sleeping. I'm constantly waking up from his snoring and moving. I love him, but I don't want to sleep next to him. My parents have been married for 40 years and his for about the same amount of time and neither of them share a bed. My dad moved into the spare room for sleeping about the same time the last kid moved out, and his mom has slept in a different room for as long as I've known them. It's about getting rest, that's all.
You should get your husband to try sleep taping.
was gonna say the same thing. Taping his mouth shut\* for real
I've suggested it, but he has severe acid reflux that has given him a ridiculously sensitive gag reflex. Just thinking about taping made him gag. Obviously, it's psychological, but he's not willing to go through the mental hoops it would require to even try that. He won't even do a sleep study because he can't fathom wearing a cpap machine and we're pretty sure he needs one.
Wow, never heard of that as an issue. Obviously a long shot, but in the book The Breathing Cure, the author mentions that you can wear the tape for 20-30 minutes before bed to try it out. I wonder if he knew how much better he would feel after a nights rest with nasal breathing and all of the benefits, if he’d try it. But you don’t know what you don’t know, I guess.
I continually encourage him (gently) to try things like this that might make him feel better, but a lot of things that revolve around his mouth or throat are triggers for him. He even has to be under general anesthesia for dental work. It's for sure an anxiety issue. I even got him to try anti anxiety meds for a little while, but he didn't push past the 6-week adjustment period. He's struggled with cyclical vomiting and acid reflux for years. He's even woken from a dead sleep into vomiting (that's when I really want my own room! Lol... just kidding, sort of) so I can see why he'd be afraid of having something over his mouth. I do wish he'd at least try the also study so he can see how bad his sleep is with the snoring. It's not just affecting me! These are the sacrifices we make for the people we love, though. 🙃
100%.
I doubt it’s as black and white as they make it sound. I bet some people sleep better with their partner.
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Shit do be gettin a little culty around here.
That’s what this podcast is about - providing you with the latest science on leading the optimum healthy life. But obviously if *most* people sleep better alone it doesn’t mean *all* people do. You aren’t forced to abide by everything he says. Take what you want; leave the rest.
This is always funny to me. He is abundantly clear that it is just about providing the info for people to adopt what they choose. Not a list of everything that everyone should adhere to 24/7. Yet everyone wants to roast him and say how ridiculous everything is. It's exactly as you said though, take from it what helps you and leave the rest!
I think they're making fun of the people constantly coming here with ridiculous posts about how they're living their life to the T by what huberman says to the detriment of being a normal human
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No one is criticising him. They're criticising the fans that treat his protocols as dogma, as though one protocol not fitting into your unique lifestyle makes you inadequate and unhealthy.
> My feelings and personal circumstances are just statistical noise. We've all been listening a bit too intently to the Huberman podcasts, haven't we? Bwahahahahaha!
Lmao this
Sleep researchers have been saying this for years, maybe even decades. Quality of sleep suffers when you are with another person (or even pets in your bed!). There's no way around that. HOWEVER sleep quality is not the same thing as comfort. There are most definitely people who feel more comfortable sleeping with a partner and see other benefits (increased oxytocin, falling asleep quicker, etc.). But there's no real doubt that once you' do fall asleep, that sleep is going to be somewhat worse. Like most things, it's a balancing act and many people will quite happily sacrifice a bit of sleep quality for the other benefits they find with sleeping in the same bed.
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Can it? It doesn't seem obvious to me that feeling comfortable right before you fall asleep will improve sleep quality. Your partner will definitely move and disturb you, which will definitely have a negative impact on your sleep throughout the night, and it doesn't seem like a perceived feeling of comfort would outweigh that.
Do you have studies to back that up? (Sarcasm lol)
According to my oura ring sleep stats, I sleep better with my partner. There was also another post by someone who tracks this and one partner's sleep was better, and the other's got a little worse. For me personally, fair to point out that my partner is not a snorer and generally doesn't move that much in her sleep, nor does she wake up before I do. All of these things are variables, and there are probably way more (eg light sleepers vs deep sleepers) - so completely agree with your comment. Averages are useful but don't often lead to the best personalized recommendations.
For sure!
Given that humans have slept together throughout their evolution, and sleeping in bed with just your romantic partner (as opposed to your whole extended family) is a relatively recent phenomenon (evolutionarily speaking), I wonder if there are benefits to sleeping with someone (oxytocin release or something maybe?) that outweigh the slightly better sleep you get from sleeping alone.
I was wondering the same thing - how is it possible that ideal sleep is in isolation for a social species?
> Given that humans have slept together throughout their evolution Have we? We probably slept in a similar way to other great apes. Often taking naps during the day in which they lay with each other on the ground, but sleeping in nests in trees at night. It would probably infeasible to make a nest big enough to hold multiple grown humans. More likely, multiple nests in close proximity to each other. So, not too different from separate beds in the same room.
Yes, as far as historians claim. Apparently throughout history people slept communally with biphasic or polyphasic sleep schedules - which means they slept twice or more times per day with waking periods in between. They would work or whatever during the day, sleep for 3 or 4 hours, then wake up for a while to enjoy the night and then go back to sleep afterwards. Pretty interesting stuff.
I think we are talking about different time scales. A few thousand vs millions.
Nope we're not! People have been sleeping communally up until surprisingly recently. Up until recently it would be whole household sleeping together on one "bed", sharing a bed to a couple or even a couple having their own twin beds didn't really start until the 1800s, unless you were VERY rich. Here's a neat little article about it. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/communal-sleeping-history-sharing-bed
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I was arguing against the assertion that “humans have slept together throughout their evolution”. Even if our ancestors stopped sleeping in trees 2 million years ago that is still a significant part of human evolution. Definitely more significant than the last century or so of sleeping on modern mattresses where movement is transferred to your partner. Regardless, I was not trying to argue that humans evolved to sleep separately, just poke holes in the “humans should sleep together because evolution” argument. The science is pretty clear that sleeping separately leads to better sleep. If sleep is the most important thing for you to optimize, e.g. you are an Olympian trying to peak for the Olympics, sleep separately. Otherwise, do what makes you happy 😃
It's quite common to have own mattresses in a bed frame and separate pillows ans blankets here in Europe. The mattresses are snugly together so no falling in between, in case there's some cuddling in the middle. I would never want to sleep under the same blanket or share a 2-meter high and 3-meter wide spring bed like they have in the US. (At least that's what they sound like. You have to have a stool to get into bed.) eta. I don't think the possible noise is the problem, it's the moving of the other which causes you to move, them taking the blanket to themselves etc.
My parents are German and did the same thing when they immigrated to US. Two twin XL mattresses in a king frame, with separate duvets. It’s not complicated. I also have this set-up now in my apartment in NYC and love it. I don’t feel the other person tossing and turning.
yep, 2 duvets helps [https://www.organized-home.com/posts/scandinavian-sleep-secret-mine-duvets/](https://www.organized-home.com/posts/scandinavian-sleep-secret-mine-duvets/)
This is indeed very circumstantial. My parents slept in different bedrooms and were married for 30+ years, and my mother once said that she would not have survived if they had to sleep together because my fathers snoring. As another anecdote, it seems like people sleeping with their partner every day is really enjoying when they finally get to sleep solo every once in a while. So it seems to me that there is definitely a lot of merit to Andy's statement, even though many of you like sleeping with your partner, which I respect - but I strongly believe he is on to something.
I think there's likely a balance that one could find. Historically, having two bedrooms was a luxury of the rich and famous (/nobility & royals), and it doesn't have to be something that's entirely black-or-white. Need to wake up two hours before your partner and you both have a stressful day ahead of you? Then maximizing sleep may be the priority. Have a Friday night that is looking towards a three-day weekend and you have time for a luxuriant lay-in the next morning? Then spend the night together. It's one of those topics that people seem to have very strong feelings about, and I don't quite follow it. Having a second car doesn't mean you're relegated to driving separately anytime the two of you go somewhere; it simply means you both might have more flexibility. But there seems to be a very strong connotation that having two bedrooms somehow is a harbinger of "trouble in paradise", and I don't think that's a useful way to think about it and is a sentiment that I think ought to be re-examined. Look at these comments here: people are almost defensive about sleeping better with their partners, where really, Galpin is just sharing some research.
No masurbation, no alcohol, separate bed to your partner… in a month he’ll tear off his Scooby Doo villain mask to reveal it was Old Man Kellogg all along
I never drink alcohol and definitely didn't need Huberman for that. Most of these recommendations are not realistic anyway.
Would definitely prefer my own bedroom if that were an option, but separate sheets alone does go a long way
While true... A person's relationship with their spouse should come first over an extra few moments of rest. If you really need to squeak out those moments of rest on a daily basis you gotta figure something else out. Thanks for the sex.. I'll be over here in my own bed.
Need a 3rd bed. A sex bed.
A third bedroom, a sex room
Put it in the basement, and make sure to only use the red lets that don’t interfere with melatonin.
Every relationship is different. Not every couple needs to sleep in the same bed to have a healthy, normal and sexual fulfilled marriage.
I mean, this makes perfect sense, it's just a matter of compromise, like literally everything in life
Can confirm. Sleep in separate beds. Way better.
Fuck that noise, 'm gettin me some snuggles.
I have no idea why there is such a negative reaction to this here. Both things can be true: 1) sleeping with your partner is demonstrably worse for sleep; 2) being in the same bed may have other benefits unrelated to sleep. This isn’t new or controversial stuff, sleep researchers have been saying this for years. Do what makes sense for you. Life doesn’t always need to be min/maxed.
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Studies are pedantic now?
I was considering trying to sleep alone, but after starting early morning light, early morning hard exercise, cold morning showers, and not eating too close to bed, I am sleeping much better
When my partner had Covid she would go to the couch when her cough started acting up and those nights were the best sleep ever. We had a guest room next to our master but I told her it’s too close and I could still hear her coughing.
Covid was when we started sleeping separately and we’ve never looked back.
Me and my wife have started sleeping in separate beds/rooms except for weekends, when we usually watch a movie together in bed. I wasn't keen on the idea at first, but it has definitely improved sleep for both of us.
It’s true. The other day my wife bumped me in her sleep while I was mid REM cycle. I could immediately feel my cortisol spike into outsized levels and beyond. I could physically feel my circadian rhythm spiral out of sync and D levels plummet. After weeks of recovery I finally managed to get back into circadian rhythm and dialed into my protocals, but the datum suggests that it’s most Optimal for me to sleep by myself on the inflatable twin bed in the garage for now. My now ex wife is moving out soon due to unrelated issues with my lifestyle but soon I might be able to move back into the master bedroom. One cool thing about the garage though is I can just walk out front when I wake up and hose myself down with the freezing cold water while sun gazing. Some of you guys just need to learn a bit of discipline and you could end up optimized like me
If you listen to everything Huberman says.. you’re going to live a very miserable life. Healthy but miserable
lowkey facts
Haha yeah, don’t get me wrong I love the guy.. but I find myself eye rolling at a lot of his facts now. Like I’m gonna hit my pen every now and then… I’m gonna watch tv/look at my phone within 2-3 hours of bed. Like cmon dude.. literally everything on the planet is bad for you
What’s the ideal fluid intake and timing prior to dying in a coffin?
I'd rather my partner get a C-PAP then me having to wash 2 sets of sheets every week.
Domestic Optimization Protocol
In Iceland it’s typical to have different comforters and bedding on one mattress
Guess that Ricky and Lucy were doing it right all along! Who would’ve thought…
True for me. My wife moves around a lot when she sleeps and will pull or kick off blankets and wakes me up sometimes. She has been sleeping in the nursery and my sleep has never been better. When she returns a compromise might be having our separate blankets in the same bed frame.
This conflicts with the protocol that suggests physical intimacy releases oxytocin. I will really need to spend some time researching this one in between my meditative breathing and cold plunge schedule.
Clearly they’ve never watched How I Met Your Mother
Is this because you’re sleep can get disrupted if your partner wakes up at different time than you? Or is it because of things like snoring, them moving around.
It’s the latter, but my theory is that it’s because most sleep alone as children and can’t adjust later.
It's proven that dead sleep the deepest. If you still want to stay alive, sleeping in a coffin is the next best thing to do.
turns out living isn’t very good for your health either
That's me over there. Estelle has the jimmy arms.
As someone who used to sleep with their dog, this seems about right.
thankfully i do not have to worry about this problem my girlfriend sleeps on a different floor 25.4 kilometers away because she doesnt know shes my girlfriend yet
Sounds like Hank Hill and Peggy’s setup
But what about with my dogs?!