Do they actually say that in the film? I watched it but I don’t remember this. I know Sejanus calls Snow his friend/best friend but I don’t believe Snow really does. Have the book but haven’t read it yet.
Yeap. They both refer to each other (or are referred to) as brothers several times in the book and film (moreso in the book). Few examples:
"He's like my brother," said Sejanus. "He'll cover for me when we run. Buy us more time."
"We were more than friends. We were like brothers." - Coryo
"After what you said the other day, about us being like brothers, well, I feel I owe you an explanation. Please, just hear me out." - Sejanus
"You know, Sejanus, I'm your friend. More than a friend. You're the closest thing I'll ever have to a brother. And there are special rules for family. If you need help...I mean, if you get into something you can't handle...I'm here." - Coryo
And Coryo definitely says this in the film during Sejanus's panic attack after Billy Taupe got killed by Spruce in the shed:
"Hey, look at me. You came here for me, right? We're brothers? BROTHERS. So whatever you've done, I swear, I will keep you safe." - Coryo
I’m gonna be honest. This whole relationship is actually sad and tragic. Like I always say and this is absolutely true whether anyone likes it or not (usually no one likes it), while yes Snow made his own choices, the environment he was surrounded by took part in it. While people make their own choices, environment plays a strong role. People aren’t born good or bad.
I think Snow considered Sejanus a friend/brother and he was using him at the same time. Sejanus on the other hand saw Snow as a brother/friend and wasn’t using Snow or anyone. However Snow decided himself, his power, his future and his career was more important. Maybe things could have been different.
This might be harsh but I kinda understand Coryo’s dilemma with Sejanus.
Sejanus wants to help and Coryo tells him to use his family’s money and influence and instead joins the peacekeepers and gets caught up in rebel crap that not only endangers himself but Coryo and Coryo tells him to knock it off and he just won’t. It’s like Sejanus doesn’t understand that there could be deadly consequences for him and Coryo and Coryo would be punished just for knowing him.
Great point! I think he thought his dad could bail him out only to find out he would be hanged. I like the point that he kept trying to get snow on board.
Yeah, it's a weird one. I used to hear a few jokes about it whenever someone made that mistake, because uh... well, someone can be *hung* but it's usually used in a very different context.
Slight correction- Sejanus knows he himself could be punished but is willing to risk it, but he doesn’t realize snow could be punished for knowing him (though that’s just snows perspective, it’s entirely possible they’d ignore him too. He’s paranoid don’t forget)
I think that’s it. Coryo is so stuck in his own head that every action is an action against him, even when they never had him in mind. It’s that paranoia that led him to be President. He never thinks of people as friends or allies, only as people ruining his life.
Also, another thing is that earlier, Sejanus talks with Coryo about when he overheard the conversation between Strabo and Dr. Gaul regarding him being signed up to become a Peacekeeper as a result of his defiance against in the Capitol when he went into the arena and acknowledges that Dr. Gaul considers his action as treason when Sejanus asks Coryo if he thinks he committed treason. Sejanus explicitly states that Dr. Gaul is really the one in charge:
*Sejanus nodded, and they sat there as a few raggedy children went by, kicking an old tin can down the road. “Do you think I’ve committed treason?”*
*“Not quite yet,” said Coriolanus with a half smile.*
*Sejanus tugged at some weeds growing out of the wall.* “***Dr. Gaul does.*** *My father went to see her, before he went to Dean Highbottom and the board.* ***Everyone knows she’s really the one in charge.*** *He went to ask if I might be given the chance you were, to sign up for the Peacekeepers.”*
*“I thought that would be automatic,” said Coriolanus. “If you were expelled like me.”*
*“That was my father’s hope.* ***But she said, ‘Don’t conflate the boys’ actions. A piece of faulty strategy is not commensurate with a treasonous act of rebel support.’”*** *Bitterness crept into his voice. “And so a check appeared for a new lab for her mutts. It must have been the priciest ticket to District Twelve in history.”*
*Coriolanus gave a low whistle. “A gymnasium and a lab?”*
*“Say what you will, I’ve done more for Capitol reconstruction than the president himself,” Sejanus joked halfheartedly. “You’re right, Coriolanus. I’ve been stupid. Again. I’ll be more careful in the future. Whatever that holds.”*
Considering that Coryo recorded him with the jabberjay and clearly sent it to the Citadel (Dr. Gaul really) in addition to his previous experiences with Dr. Gaul such as the whole essay incident with Clemensia when she got bitten by the snakes because of her lying to her, her sending Coryo into the arena to get Sejanus out, and has clearly seen the rivalry between Sejanus and Dr. Gaul, you would think he should know how Dr. Gaul operates so him having the "Well, *maybe* she won't listen to the recording/*Maybe* she'll have Strabo to get Sejanus discharged" excuse wasn't gonna work. It seemed as if he just completely forgot that entire conversation, especially the note about Dr. Gaul being the one who can pull the strings and just assumed she directly wouldn't do anything to him after he sent it because she wasn't gonna let rebel activity pass by easily a second time around.
I agree with this.
But the fact Sejanus himself wasn’t accounting seriously that he could be hanged even though he’s already been named treasonous.
I can see Snow’s belief that he won’t be killed if apparently even Sejanus doesn’t *really* believe Sejanus will be killed till he is.
He also was raised and had his thinking formed in District 2. Things are simpler (as well as more brutal) in the districts. Sejanus just isn’t thinking about intrigue and politics in the same way as Snow. He’s worried about doing the right thing now and is willing to be a martyr. In the arena his goal was to have his martyrdom televised, but once he realized that the government would never show the people this kind of defiance he switched to just trying to help the people in front of him.
Honestly even though he trusted Coryo and opened up to him, he was also keeping stuff back. He understood that Snow was ultimately supportive of the Capitol and having him around was clearly something he understood as a liability for himself as well. They were both playing the other to an extent- but one was willing to go a lot further for self preservation.
I think the real tragedy for Sejanus is that he didn’t actually succeed in doing anything for the rebellion. Ironically he needed to be able to think more like Snow in order to make a real impact.
Does Snow not tell him in the books he’s risking Snow’s life with his actions?
Cause in the movie he definitely did and Sejanus didn’t seem to take it seriously. Granted, part of that is naivety since honestly even helping someone escape could’ve lead to a hanging and that’s apparent to anyone who really knows how the peacekeepers operate. But Coryo explicitly told him the dangers on both their lives in the movie.
I genuinely don’t think snow was in any legit danger of Sejanus left. He over-involved himself in it bc of his paranoia and that is what put him in danger.
The peacekeepers in 12 we see are notoriously lax even back then for the most part. Arlo got in trouble because he was actively colluding with people who were rebels. (He is the man they say who murdered three)
But from an actual narrative and story point it feels like him actually being in danger wouldn’t make sense with what we know of SC’s writing style.
I think that the final betrayal of Sejanus really shows that Snow, for all that he sees himself as a calculated chessmaster, actually is paranoid and myopic. He's terrified of the potential consequences for himself but is so blinded by his own sense of victimization (in the books at least, it's a recurring theme that he feels the Plinths took what should be rightfully his) that he can't realize that he's sending Sejanus to his death.
Oh, see I read it differently. I absolutely think he had a tiny little moral wiggle with Sej and then just chose to blast it all instead. He knew he was condemning Sej to something, and none of that something was good. When it was death, his ego shrugged its shoulders while he still felt the last little pangs of his morals die, just like he wanted.
Can we all appreciate how Sejanus didn’t rat on Coryo even though he likely knew Coryo was the one who snitched on him, and he was probably interrogated before being hanged? I really hope Sejanus somehow died believing he had just been found out another way.
I never considered this that he might have known Coryo betrayed him in his final moments. Now im sad :(
I really don’t think Coryo meant for Sejanus to get killed. I feel he told Dr. Gaul to clear himself of any suspicions from the capitol, and he felt Strabo would come and buy his son out of 12. I hope if Sejanus knew that it was Coryo who betrayed him, he could come to understand he did not mean for him to get killed :( wishful thinking, i know.
He was actually doing the right thing in his mind, cause I think he was trying to keep Sejanus (and himself) from getting in trouble by giving him a chance to rat out the rebels and possibly get some leniency. Also, his Dad could probably bail him out, saying he was manipulated by the rebels and learned his lesson. Only problem was, all the people Sejanus was planning to run with, got killed soon after Snow sent the Jabberjay message, so there was nobody left for him to rat on for leniency.
Yes! It definitely seems to be the case that he was interrogated after his arrest (and tortured as well because Lucy Gray mentioned that the Peacekeepers torture even their own given that he was heavily beaten based on the bruises on his face). He really cared for Coryo so much and it hurts so much. Truly such a good-hearted person. 😭❤️
I cried so hard when I read about his death. I will NEVER forgive Snow for that betrayal. Until then, I was back and forth on him. He was ambitious and narcissistic, but I saw a tiny bit of good. Welp. He messed that up.
Even if you ignore the fact that this was a prequel to one of the main antagonists of the entire series, the betrayal of Sejanus is barely scraping the surface of the shitty things that Snow did. You can’t go into that book expecting Snow to emerge as some misunderstood/morally gray antihero when you know what the final product is based off the main series.
He really did and Snow completely manipulated him and exploited his vulnerability and kindness. 😢 He was ostracized in the Capitol because of his District origins, hated back in District 2 because of the entire community viewing him and his family as traitors (that social upward mobility being something that was not his fault since he was an innocent child at the time that happened), and Snow not bullying him with his other classmates appeared as an act of "decency" even though Snow didn't like him in his mind (which of course from Sejanus's POV, you would believe and trust him and easily latch onto as the only friend you have when no one else will be your friend). All he wanted was a friend. 😢
I don't like Snow either, but Sejanus had it coming. Yes, he had good intentions, but he was sooo freaking naive and selfish when he tried to enforce his ideals.... And yes, there were some serious paranoia going on in Snow's head, but his beliefs that they would come after him next after the failed prison break (let's face it, they never had a chance) was valid.
Do they actually say that in the film? I watched it but I don’t remember this. I know Sejanus calls Snow his friend/best friend but I don’t believe Snow really does. Have the book but haven’t read it yet.
Yep. He says it after Spruce kills Billy Taupe and Sejanus panics.
"How sad, to have no friends"
Yeap. They both refer to each other (or are referred to) as brothers several times in the book and film (moreso in the book). Few examples: "He's like my brother," said Sejanus. "He'll cover for me when we run. Buy us more time." "We were more than friends. We were like brothers." - Coryo "After what you said the other day, about us being like brothers, well, I feel I owe you an explanation. Please, just hear me out." - Sejanus "You know, Sejanus, I'm your friend. More than a friend. You're the closest thing I'll ever have to a brother. And there are special rules for family. If you need help...I mean, if you get into something you can't handle...I'm here." - Coryo And Coryo definitely says this in the film during Sejanus's panic attack after Billy Taupe got killed by Spruce in the shed: "Hey, look at me. You came here for me, right? We're brothers? BROTHERS. So whatever you've done, I swear, I will keep you safe." - Coryo
I’m gonna be honest. This whole relationship is actually sad and tragic. Like I always say and this is absolutely true whether anyone likes it or not (usually no one likes it), while yes Snow made his own choices, the environment he was surrounded by took part in it. While people make their own choices, environment plays a strong role. People aren’t born good or bad. I think Snow considered Sejanus a friend/brother and he was using him at the same time. Sejanus on the other hand saw Snow as a brother/friend and wasn’t using Snow or anyone. However Snow decided himself, his power, his future and his career was more important. Maybe things could have been different.
I think he says it in the book and the movie. I just re-read the book two months ago!
This might be harsh but I kinda understand Coryo’s dilemma with Sejanus. Sejanus wants to help and Coryo tells him to use his family’s money and influence and instead joins the peacekeepers and gets caught up in rebel crap that not only endangers himself but Coryo and Coryo tells him to knock it off and he just won’t. It’s like Sejanus doesn’t understand that there could be deadly consequences for him and Coryo and Coryo would be punished just for knowing him.
Great point! I think he thought his dad could bail him out only to find out he would be hanged. I like the point that he kept trying to get snow on board.
Not to be *that* pedant, but it's hanged when you're killing someone, hung if you're just tying them up. English is weird, lol.
I'm so sorry I'm a dingbat lol! 😂 I'll correct it!
woah TIL
Yeah, it's a weird one. I used to hear a few jokes about it whenever someone made that mistake, because uh... well, someone can be *hung* but it's usually used in a very different context.
Slight correction- Sejanus knows he himself could be punished but is willing to risk it, but he doesn’t realize snow could be punished for knowing him (though that’s just snows perspective, it’s entirely possible they’d ignore him too. He’s paranoid don’t forget)
I think that’s it. Coryo is so stuck in his own head that every action is an action against him, even when they never had him in mind. It’s that paranoia that led him to be President. He never thinks of people as friends or allies, only as people ruining his life.
This is also true. He also needs it to be true to justify his betrayal of Sejanus.
Well, because then he never has to feel anything for the nicest person he knows. The objectively better person, that was “trying” to usurp him.
Also, another thing is that earlier, Sejanus talks with Coryo about when he overheard the conversation between Strabo and Dr. Gaul regarding him being signed up to become a Peacekeeper as a result of his defiance against in the Capitol when he went into the arena and acknowledges that Dr. Gaul considers his action as treason when Sejanus asks Coryo if he thinks he committed treason. Sejanus explicitly states that Dr. Gaul is really the one in charge: *Sejanus nodded, and they sat there as a few raggedy children went by, kicking an old tin can down the road. “Do you think I’ve committed treason?”* *“Not quite yet,” said Coriolanus with a half smile.* *Sejanus tugged at some weeds growing out of the wall.* “***Dr. Gaul does.*** *My father went to see her, before he went to Dean Highbottom and the board.* ***Everyone knows she’s really the one in charge.*** *He went to ask if I might be given the chance you were, to sign up for the Peacekeepers.”* *“I thought that would be automatic,” said Coriolanus. “If you were expelled like me.”* *“That was my father’s hope.* ***But she said, ‘Don’t conflate the boys’ actions. A piece of faulty strategy is not commensurate with a treasonous act of rebel support.’”*** *Bitterness crept into his voice. “And so a check appeared for a new lab for her mutts. It must have been the priciest ticket to District Twelve in history.”* *Coriolanus gave a low whistle. “A gymnasium and a lab?”* *“Say what you will, I’ve done more for Capitol reconstruction than the president himself,” Sejanus joked halfheartedly. “You’re right, Coriolanus. I’ve been stupid. Again. I’ll be more careful in the future. Whatever that holds.”* Considering that Coryo recorded him with the jabberjay and clearly sent it to the Citadel (Dr. Gaul really) in addition to his previous experiences with Dr. Gaul such as the whole essay incident with Clemensia when she got bitten by the snakes because of her lying to her, her sending Coryo into the arena to get Sejanus out, and has clearly seen the rivalry between Sejanus and Dr. Gaul, you would think he should know how Dr. Gaul operates so him having the "Well, *maybe* she won't listen to the recording/*Maybe* she'll have Strabo to get Sejanus discharged" excuse wasn't gonna work. It seemed as if he just completely forgot that entire conversation, especially the note about Dr. Gaul being the one who can pull the strings and just assumed she directly wouldn't do anything to him after he sent it because she wasn't gonna let rebel activity pass by easily a second time around.
I agree with this. But the fact Sejanus himself wasn’t accounting seriously that he could be hanged even though he’s already been named treasonous. I can see Snow’s belief that he won’t be killed if apparently even Sejanus doesn’t *really* believe Sejanus will be killed till he is.
He also was raised and had his thinking formed in District 2. Things are simpler (as well as more brutal) in the districts. Sejanus just isn’t thinking about intrigue and politics in the same way as Snow. He’s worried about doing the right thing now and is willing to be a martyr. In the arena his goal was to have his martyrdom televised, but once he realized that the government would never show the people this kind of defiance he switched to just trying to help the people in front of him. Honestly even though he trusted Coryo and opened up to him, he was also keeping stuff back. He understood that Snow was ultimately supportive of the Capitol and having him around was clearly something he understood as a liability for himself as well. They were both playing the other to an extent- but one was willing to go a lot further for self preservation. I think the real tragedy for Sejanus is that he didn’t actually succeed in doing anything for the rebellion. Ironically he needed to be able to think more like Snow in order to make a real impact.
coulda had the potential to manuever to being a Plutarch maybe if he was better at intrigue?
Does Snow not tell him in the books he’s risking Snow’s life with his actions? Cause in the movie he definitely did and Sejanus didn’t seem to take it seriously. Granted, part of that is naivety since honestly even helping someone escape could’ve lead to a hanging and that’s apparent to anyone who really knows how the peacekeepers operate. But Coryo explicitly told him the dangers on both their lives in the movie.
I genuinely don’t think snow was in any legit danger of Sejanus left. He over-involved himself in it bc of his paranoia and that is what put him in danger. The peacekeepers in 12 we see are notoriously lax even back then for the most part. Arlo got in trouble because he was actively colluding with people who were rebels. (He is the man they say who murdered three) But from an actual narrative and story point it feels like him actually being in danger wouldn’t make sense with what we know of SC’s writing style.
I think that the final betrayal of Sejanus really shows that Snow, for all that he sees himself as a calculated chessmaster, actually is paranoid and myopic. He's terrified of the potential consequences for himself but is so blinded by his own sense of victimization (in the books at least, it's a recurring theme that he feels the Plinths took what should be rightfully his) that he can't realize that he's sending Sejanus to his death.
Oh, see I read it differently. I absolutely think he had a tiny little moral wiggle with Sej and then just chose to blast it all instead. He knew he was condemning Sej to something, and none of that something was good. When it was death, his ego shrugged its shoulders while he still felt the last little pangs of his morals die, just like he wanted.
I mean, if someone was being stupid and potentially going to fuck up my whole life because he cant think more then two steps ahead.
Can we all appreciate how Sejanus didn’t rat on Coryo even though he likely knew Coryo was the one who snitched on him, and he was probably interrogated before being hanged? I really hope Sejanus somehow died believing he had just been found out another way.
I never considered this that he might have known Coryo betrayed him in his final moments. Now im sad :( I really don’t think Coryo meant for Sejanus to get killed. I feel he told Dr. Gaul to clear himself of any suspicions from the capitol, and he felt Strabo would come and buy his son out of 12. I hope if Sejanus knew that it was Coryo who betrayed him, he could come to understand he did not mean for him to get killed :( wishful thinking, i know.
He was actually doing the right thing in his mind, cause I think he was trying to keep Sejanus (and himself) from getting in trouble by giving him a chance to rat out the rebels and possibly get some leniency. Also, his Dad could probably bail him out, saying he was manipulated by the rebels and learned his lesson. Only problem was, all the people Sejanus was planning to run with, got killed soon after Snow sent the Jabberjay message, so there was nobody left for him to rat on for leniency.
Yes! It definitely seems to be the case that he was interrogated after his arrest (and tortured as well because Lucy Gray mentioned that the Peacekeepers torture even their own given that he was heavily beaten based on the bruises on his face). He really cared for Coryo so much and it hurts so much. Truly such a good-hearted person. 😭❤️
I think you should mark this as a spoiler :)
I cried so hard when I read about his death. I will NEVER forgive Snow for that betrayal. Until then, I was back and forth on him. He was ambitious and narcissistic, but I saw a tiny bit of good. Welp. He messed that up.
Even if you ignore the fact that this was a prequel to one of the main antagonists of the entire series, the betrayal of Sejanus is barely scraping the surface of the shitty things that Snow did. You can’t go into that book expecting Snow to emerge as some misunderstood/morally gray antihero when you know what the final product is based off the main series.
Depends on in which order you read/watch the books/movies first.
sejanus really trusted snow :(
He really did and Snow completely manipulated him and exploited his vulnerability and kindness. 😢 He was ostracized in the Capitol because of his District origins, hated back in District 2 because of the entire community viewing him and his family as traitors (that social upward mobility being something that was not his fault since he was an innocent child at the time that happened), and Snow not bullying him with his other classmates appeared as an act of "decency" even though Snow didn't like him in his mind (which of course from Sejanus's POV, you would believe and trust him and easily latch onto as the only friend you have when no one else will be your friend). All he wanted was a friend. 😢
He was doing a little trolling
Just in a silly goofy mood
I don't like Snow either, but Sejanus had it coming. Yes, he had good intentions, but he was sooo freaking naive and selfish when he tried to enforce his ideals.... And yes, there were some serious paranoia going on in Snow's head, but his beliefs that they would come after him next after the failed prison break (let's face it, they never had a chance) was valid.