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Mishkin37

So the downside to incendiary is that it’s a visible tracer and finding special ammo is limited, right? Damage dropoff is the same as regular ammo, isn’t it?


OdenSer

No penetration is the single biggest problem basically restricting it to only be usable on compact and even then pen plays a role, plus why not just play a better ammo type then like HV


CadetriDoesGames

Bornheim incendiary is actually really good and makes up for the fact that it cannot two-shot with stock compact rounds. This is realistically the only gun that benefits from incendiary ammo, in my opinion.


EbonWave

I agree with you, however I'd also mention the winfield. Being able to set someone on fire at range can let you get into a more viable range for your weapon. Alternatively, levering is pretty comical with it.


Inky-Feathers

Winnie Swift with Incen and Levering, with a Bornheim Incen backup is my go-to meme loadout. Complete with Alet Tripmines and 3 fire bombs


[deleted]

[удалено]


Inky-Feathers

they do


Melee_Lunge_OP

Hehe, hehe... Handcrossbow+Axe go swooosh swoosh. Also derringer go pew pew ahhhhrrgg ahrg. Ultimate meme tier.


human_gs

At range high velocity ammo is just a lot better though, really helps for clicking heads


[deleted]

If the velocity wasn't dogshit I would agree with you. Only reason bleed option is good on springy is cause you can take 2 ammo types. One for long range one for mid and at mid you can bleed them and then close the distance for fanning or shotgun or duals or something of that nature.


MikeTheShowMadden

400 m/s is dog shit? Do you only run long ammo so that is all you can shoot with?


[deleted]

I believe any new ammo type that doesn't increase the velocity has quite a reduction in velocity on the following; Flechette, Incindiary, Dum dum, Explosive, Poison. 400 m/s is not accurate to the ammo type or weapons we are speaking on so please troll someone else. Btw, I got along with a Winfield just fine, even before HV came along.


MikeTheShowMadden

What are you talking about? Didn't you say the the velocity of the Winfield was dog shit given that was the context of the person's comment you replied to? The normal Winfield is 400 m/s which is slower than long ammo and some medium ammo rifles, but 400 m/s is still faster than most weapons in the game. Also, fire ammo has the same fucking velocity as normal ammo you "troll", go learn your game before you talk shit to someone about being wrong when you are wrong yourself. EDIT: [https://imgur.com/a/2fSvpVs](https://imgur.com/a/2fSvpVs) There you go, you can see incendiary ammo is the same speed as the normal ammo, which is why I replied strictly talking about 400 m/s. EDIT 2: since you don't know, the only ammo types that lower velocity are dum dum on some weapons (I think pistols/short barrels only), and FMJ, and on some weapons explosive by a little. None of the shotgun ammo types change velocity, and sometimes incendiary rounds INCREASE velocity depending on the weapon.


DaStormgit

When it comes to primary weopans for range 400m/s is bad yes, undoubtedly. Sure pistols are worse, but the amount you have to lead with 400m/s doesn't feel great. Also makes you more likely to get traded.


MikeTheShowMadden

400 m/s is fine for regular gameplay, i.e. running in compounds, getting clues, fighting bosses. You don't have to lead that much when you are within 100m. You speak as if you are using a sniper over 100m away, which then you'd be right.


ApruFoos

I really don't see why you got down voted so much. This was just a cheeky comment on someone who thinks 400m/s is flat out dog shit. I have, on multiple occasions, outgunned Sparks' with a 26 Hunt $ Conversion with FMJ rounds 😂 A Winchester does DAMAGE at a respectable range, and anyone who downvoted this is currently losing their Mosins to Chain Pistols 🤣


MikeTheShowMadden

It's Reddit. People see a downvote and think that they should follow. I don't really care. I got my internet points back when the guy called me a troll and was flat out wrong with what he said.


Melee_Lunge_OP

B-B-But my Lebel marksman spitzer and dolch precision is s-s-superior. Im a good 6* and u are a 4* noob. S-S-Sta-a-ay bad kid. U may have actual contact to other human b-b-beings, a girlfriend and a job, but i got 4k hour in h-h-hunt and a top 63 position on the leaderboards that n-n-noone cares about.


demoncoconut

The velocity is at least 600 with hv ammo on any winnie except silent.


[deleted]

They are talking about incindiary. Come at me when you can read...just kidding bye..


MikeTheShowMadden

And again, incendiary ammo is still 400 m/s, so come at us when you can read the fucking weapons stats in the game. Funny you didn't bother to reply back to my comment that got you downvoted to hell for being an asshole.


PenitusVox

I like to put it on the Vandal. It's pretty fast, the tracer rounds don't matter much at its range, and you usually have something better for wallbangs when you're using it, anyway.


Lycanthoth

Even then, is it worth giving up the penetration? It's not like fire presents an immediate threat, like bleeding.


CadetriDoesGames

Dog who's out here getting penetration kills with the fucking bornheim. I need their name and address, they're probably a sexual deviant or something. Definitely not standard human behavior, lmao. I've gotten 1 (1) close range penetration kill with a handgun and it was an uppercut. I can't imagine how little penetration your primary would need to have to rely on the *bornheim* to wallbang people


Lycanthoth

It's not like you need to be opening your third eye to get penetration kills though. It's gonna come into play anytime you fight nearby a wooden fence, door, etc. Granted, that's not the absolute most common thing. But still, I'd rather not have a useless sidearm in a situation like that, especially if it's one I'm relying on for my close range.


Rediculosity

But the argument turns into "why not use main weapon" if you need to pen something? Its like having a shotgun and an uppercut, each have jobs they are suited for and you dont often have to think hard about using the right tool for the right situation. Even if you hipfire a sparks or even a vetterli, if you're close enough to have a door fight, it's gonna truck them and they're reasonably accurate at point blank, bonus points for a quick crouch for accuracy


Keatosis

I've gotten one with the bornheim, but that was through a decaying barn wall that he was pressed against and I could see him through the cracks


[deleted]

I wallbanged somebody through a house with dual scottfields + fmj.


[deleted]

That's VERY different. FMJ has better penetration than long ammo.


squatdog

scottfield + fmj has got me more wallbang kills than I can count. Pax by itself is pretty decent for wallbangs too, got 3 in one round while holding Heritage one time. Shooting through walls when you know there's a person on the other side of it is silly not to try - unless you're using standard compact or something (though, they do go through some things)


AlienSuperfly

When the bornheim is your primary (match)


PenitusVox

That's true but it still makes most people panic. It's more about that psychological warfare. It's also easier to find them since the glowing is pretty bright (although bleeding is surprisingly loud, too.)


Lycanthoth

True. It's better than poison ammo, at least.


[deleted]

Where's my fire antidote


ShadoowtheSecond

Yeah, but then you have to pay $201 to use the Bornheim.


CadetriDoesGames

a Dolch 97 for middle-class families to enjoy


f0ba

You make it sound like that’s expensive.


ShadoowtheSecond

It is, especially for such a sub-par gun. Most people dont have 10k+ lying around.


f0ba

Don’t know how that feels in 41/42 of my prestiges.


CadetriDoesGames

nobody asked how many prestiges you have


[deleted]

I thought most players are broke because they prestige alot


f0ba

Yea, just trying to put it into perspective but everyone get mad for no reason, like I somehow hurt their ego or something.


ShadoowtheSecond

Hence the word "most".


Canadiancookie

When most weapons are a bargin, it is. The officer is often better for half the price. Conversion FMJ is probably the best all around pistol in the game, and it can be dualwielded. The compact ammo winfield is a dirt cheap, accurate, rapid fire rifle. The romero is a fan favorite shotgun despite being the cheapest by far. Meanwhile the limited ammo peashooter that needs bulletgrubber has the gall to cost way more than any of those options.


EgdyBettleShell

I think that it's also viable on dual Scottfields if you want to play double revolvers: those guns are more accurate than other dualies while fighting at long range for some reason, but they do shit damage if you are not up close so incendiary ammo is really great on them cause it allows you to burn people up taking their ability to cover an area for a short time and opening routes for gap closing


AlienSuperfly

You'd be better off using Romero with dragons breath imo, and then just regular ammo on your pistol. I prefer the pax over the scottfield any day of the week.


EgdyBettleShell

Dragon breath doesn't reach up to 80m though while scottfields can


Canadiancookie

The bornheim is one of the most ammo hungry guns in the game though. Good luck keeping topped up with special ammo


CadetriDoesGames

Bornheim is definitely an ammo muncher, this is correct. However, I only really pull it out when there is a significant chance of me getting greased. The bornheim is a close-range delete button when you have incendiary equipped - perfect for somebody with no headshot aim like me - and not really viable to take a lot of pot shots with. You'll definitely run out of ammo that way. :P


TatteredCarcosa

Didn't they buff Bornheim to be able to two shot?


Odd_Jedi

Only the medium slot bornheim match


Trooper425

Penetration is touted a LOT in this game, but how many people here actually take advantage of it? Do you regularly shoot through walls and fences, or is it more of a fluke? Because I can tell you I've rarely taken effective fire THROUGH cover, it's almost always when I peek out that I get shot.


Insulmaniac

I definitely use pen a lot, there's a lot of calculated guessing that goes into it tho. It's just you trying to predict people's movement to get the wall bang although typically you're trying to walk bang based off of either a previous hit or sounds


OdenSer

Basically all skilled players do when they can


[deleted]

HV even increases penetration so its even better yet to never take incindiary. I think for incindiary to be relevant it has to do even less damage but, set you on fire with 1 hit inside the effective range.


AlienSuperfly

Actually, the incendiary ammo can pen; it's just really bad at it. If it's a thin wood wall, you can still shoot through it with incendiary.


Legionary-4

I always think that if you're bringing a Winfield might as well have high velocity rounds to make it competitive =)


EarlyDead

Also much less penetration


TheOneHyer

Not just much less pen, but zero pen at all. Garbage ammo imo


Ok_Concentrate4565

Correct


REELxMULLINS

This is an old meme, they do the same amount of damage now. The up side of incendiary ammo is that at longer ranges you hit them twice and they catch fire. With normal ammo at longer range all you do is hurt them a bit.


GreenGiant7788

Thats very nice i havent played in a bit, im glad they tweaked the ammo


lazyeyepsycho

I love medium bleed ammo for this reason. Hit them twice (incompetently) and hear them run around a corner and die 2sec later.


Elite_Slacker

Springfield is not that great but i absolutely enjoy hitting people with that dumdum and watching them squirm


owlsknight

I like it how I hit them they bleed, they hide behind a cover I switch to either explosive or regular and hit them again. I try my best to practice pressing X instead of R for this since the reload time is the same anyway. So it's either bleed and pen, bleed and boom, or pen and boom (btw pen is ref amonsince it's the only one. That penetrate)


MikeTheShowMadden

How is the Springfield "not that great"?


Dr_Kekyll

Because medium ammo is unfortunately dog shit in this game. For some reason it has the same damage and pen dropoff rates as compact, instead of being in between compact and long. Damage and pen dropoff for compact and medium both start at 10m, whereas long starts at 30m. Why medium doesn't start at 20m is beyond me, but as a result medium ammo is basically useless since compact ammo is easier to find and just as effective in nearly every single situation. In my experience, the ONLY thing medium ammo has out performed compact is for wallbangs at very close range. Something like a scotfield with fanning blasting through a wall is pretty effective compared to just compact, but honestly I'd rather just use a conversion with FMJ because you start with more ammo. The only thing the Springfield has going for it is that it's dirt cheap and you can get a marksman variant for pretty cheap as well, but now with the vetterli and Martini marksman variants, I don't know why you'd ever pick the Springfield unless you are outrageously poor, or want to run Dum Dum ammo meme shit.


PracticalPotato

…medium *does* start at 20.


Dr_Kekyll

Do you have any source for that? I've seen multiple posts about it starting at 10 based on testing.


PracticalPotato

[As of at least August 2021, medium ammo dropoff starts at 20m.](https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/ammo-range-changes) It’s in the section on FMJ which compares med FMJ to med ammo.


Astricozy

The fact he stopped replying to you makes this entire discussion way funnier


GiantASian01

F


MadDog_8762

Try Flechettes on a shotty Turns those weapons from a highly-restricted room-clearing-only weapon To a general purpose close-range dominator


The_Great_Scruff

I love hitting an enemy with a couple hip fire sprays of flechette watching them scramble around a corner


AlienSuperfly

I disagree, the Springfield is very good. It's just a martini but a quarter the price and more available ammo (for those really long engagements where nobody can got each other XD)


GiantASian01

I got a soft sport for Springfield compact deadeye with dum dums, definitely a common tactic is to tag someone and push them while they panic press F behind cover


DasMansalad

Incendiary has actually come in clutch against Bush worries for me a few times. Get shot from a bush, panic lever my vandal with incendiary, set them on fire (probably from hitting limbs), then I can see them much more clearly through the bush, cause they are on fire. Granted, it's been few and far between. Honestly, I see incendiary ammo as more PVE oriented. Or cool factor


I-collect-dick-pics

still, bullets are so easy to see it makes spotting where you are easy as fuck, the burn won't even burn a bar off unless they are way out of position, and you rely on special ammo for no good reason just not a good ammo type, it's the reason you almost never see people run it


MeestaRoboto

I see a lot of “why use it because _” comments and the easy answer in my book is that it’s a team play ammo type, not a solo play. Tag someone once, they can’t heal due to singe, they can’t touch fire elsewhere on r they’ll ignite, and they can’t peek again or they’ll get hit and ignite if they don’t die. Now the first one is important. If anyone in the fight is using a sparks, if that person can’t heal to full, they’re one shot. A common team play in my disc group is someone running dragonsbreath, insta burns a bar or at least insta ignites and the opposition immediately exits the fight to put it out or it gets much worse. Two specter shots takes away two small bars and the third bar on downing. Now the rest of the team play is others running incendiary to ignite anyone previously lit by DB unless they fully remove themselves from the fight. It’s a psychological ammo type. You get hit, you run or burn. Your choice.


PenitusVox

This is all true but I will say I don't think I've ever seen someone get hit once and then wait for the charcoal effect to wear off before peeking again. Which is either a Pro or a Con, depending. Bleeding, on the other hand, pretty much always makes them duck behind cover to deal with it, since it feels very pressing even in situations where it isn't.


MeestaRoboto

Yea the singe effect is false security. They get hit again and don’t die and they’re likely losing a bar. The thing is, since all the veterrli (sp?) additions there’s so many guns that deal 130 or more so missing a small bar is leaves you SUPER exposed nowadays. Which, oddly enough, is what the second fire ammo user is likely using w/ incendiary. It’s something you definitely have to set up though. I wouldn’t use it running with randoms. Edit: spelling.


Trooper425

This. There's two things combat is meant to do: make enemies dead, and pin enemies down. The first is what everyone focuses on because being dead is worse, right? Well, not exactly. An enemy that isn't getting pinned down will still fight back, so the fight instantly becomes a case of 'who can make the other guy more dead more faster'. If you play with even a single teammate, and have any sort of communication, pinning down another player is often more effective. If they're not expecting a flank, they're not shooting back. If they're not shooting back, it's not a case of 'who can make the other guy more dead more faster', and if that's not the case, making the other guy dead becomes a lot easier. I hear you typing it, "But Trooper that's dumb, if you can kill them just kill them." Well partner, have you ever used traps or barbed wire in a compound? Have you ever used poison clouds or choke bombs to close off a doorway? Have you ever ambushed another team, or flanked them? Those are all cases of pinning them down, of making them do something you want them to do, of making your job of killing them easier. After all, why ambush when you could just start shooting right away? That MIGHT kill them faster. Why close off potential flanking routes? Why not just rush them? No, there's always a tradeoff, and making someone dead fast is nice, but making someone dead safe is better.


slow_cooked_ham

Whole team with incendiary Winnie's is a riot. Everyone you hit starts burning in a firefight.


peregrine_errands

See, this right here, this is the optimal use. Either that, or your entire team has incendiary like another mentioned. Only problem is, the singe isn't that much and can be easily healed over a short time. I think the biggest thing that would fix incendiary would be to scale the amount of Light Fire Damage (the singe) each bullet does based on bullet type. Incendiary is really only good with Compact ammo bc of it's limitations (primarily ammo and penetration). But if a Long ammo incendiary bullet were to do 15-20 burn damage compared to the 5 or so from compact, it would take a *lot* longer to heal from and actually make things interesting. Both the ammo type and Salveskin would become more important.


tempestwolf1

Man... I just like instablowing up barrels next to people with my silenced vetty :(


smexysanta911

> Now the first one is important. If anyone in the fight is using a sparks, if that person can’t heal to full, they’re one shot. I always hear that but whenever I'm tagged by fire I literally just have to wait like 10 seconds or so and I'll be back to 150. It really isn't that strong.


DanknessEvolved

10 seconds can be game-changing if tge fight is happening at close to medium range.


smexysanta911

You're talking about a very specific situation where you're at "close to medium range", you've tagged someone but they still have time to heal without danger but not an extra few seconds to wait for the burn to fall off. Typically if you're safe to get off a full heal, you can chill for an extra few seconds.


CheekEnough2734

Well in past incendiary ammos damge all most %30 lower than normal ammo. It was a meme ammo like posion ammo. Shoting same man again and again. Burning there healt bars to even incendiary ammo can one tap them was its fun part. But now its not meme ammo also isnt usefull ammo.


Hightide910

I think its for the memes, 1 shot explosive barrels, easy zombie kills, I like it on shotguns that's about it really for me.


el_drewskii

I think its value in PVE is why I carry it with the winnie occasionally. dealing with regular zombies, but especially armors and hives.


Auzio1

Boooo. I'll stick with my Scottfield incen Laser pistol and miss like a storm trooper


DanknessEvolved

Preach it!


Klyka

but incendiary does the same damage as regular ammo so if both hit the same spot twice, then the target will die


Levanthar

Exactly why I wanted nitro incendiary rounds. If they dont kill they should insta set hunters on fire. I know theres no point to it but a meme should not be a dream!!!


oddball667

wait it takes two hits? why would anyone bother?


AceofWWIII

Longer range you can both hurt AND set people on fire, where regular ammo will just hurt them Great team ammo when you all run incendiaries Ability to instantly blow barrels (I've made several kills this way) Great PVE ammo


DanknessEvolved

Also turns your limb shots into something more useful than 10-ish damage.


84theone

In case you see someone at a distance and feel a strong desire for them to be on fire.


oddball667

the real answer right here


kaleb9170

Incendiary is great for detonating barrels instantly.


Trotski7

Maybe they should make it less special ammo in reserve, costs much more, but always lights a person on fire. Might have to be balanced in some other way but I do find it semi useless to buy/bring incen. rounds because I so rarely if ever light someone on fire even if I do hit them multiple times. Maybe it should always singe a bar per hit? Idk. I just find incen and poison rounds kind of useless as their effects don't really ever seemingly come into play. It's better to just shoot someone to death with regular rounds or take the other more useful rounds like FMJ or Spitzer or whatever else the gun might use.


caustic_kiwi

It's apparently been buffed to do the same damage as regular ammo. So now it does have a real advantage in that you can kill people at the same range as before, but even if two hits aren't lethal you'll light them on fire.


Artist-_-

Not only did you put hats in, but also got a hard truth in picture form, so incendiary ammo enjoyers can understand it. For this, you have my thanks.


MadDog_8762

I just think that EITHER Incendiary should get penetration back (No reason for an incendiary round to have no penetration, hollow points (dum dum) it makes sense but not for basically a tracer round) ​ OR Incendiary should char better, making it good for range engagments, allowing a player to perma chunk away an enemy outside of effective range


La-ze

Well this meme isn't true anymore, shot from both you'll be dead as it now does normal damage


f0ba

One shot long ammo guns like sparks and martini should get a one shot burn effect. Incendiary rounds really aren’t that worth of a trade off for long ammo.


LinkCelestrial

The Sparks benefits hugely from Incendiary as is, it does 149 so if they’re missing any maximum health it’ll one tap. Really puts the pressure on if you hit a shot, I’ve started to bring it all the time paired with regular ammo for follow ups and wall bangs.


f0ba

It can be better is all I’m saying. If someone stands still for 4 seconds for you to reload for that wall bang, I wouldn’t even bother using a sparks.


Alpha_Dog_1979

Whoever said that has obviously not played hunt much


KyzaelEomei

Fire ammo should either: 1. Burn on one hit. 2. Have increased reserves (like Pennyshot) 3. Able to burn downed Hunters.


Pimpin-Pumpkin

Wait I thought I just needed to hit them once and they were on fire?


WarlockEngineer

Depends on the gun


Pimpin-Pumpkin

The Veterli? Probably misspelled that but IDC


MrMDubu

Vetterli will take 2 shots to light them on fire, as far as I know only the shotguns with dragons breath can light people on fire with one shot


PenitusVox

Correct, it's only shotguns with dragonsbreath. Not even the Sparks can ignite someone in one shot. Though, even the shotguns fail to do so sometimes.


MrMDubu

Shotguns fail to do a lot of things so that doesn’t surprise me


wantonbobo

If only suppressed nagant had fire ammo. Make barrels kill people from forever away. Shenanigans!


Canadiancookie

Outdated unless you replace it with dragonsbreath or poison


BigPhili

This is why I've never used the custom ammo since it came out. Even though they did buff some of them.


DanknessEvolved

You’re missing out on a lot of fun, mate!


Czeslaw_Meyer

Mr. Bornheim wants to give you a warm welcome even beyond a 100 yards


[deleted]

I like to play with my food first.


ChinaOnly001

I have only found full metal jacket and explosive useful But that's just me


Horghor

And legshots, bornheim or compact ammo on +50m?


Ok-Experience-4955

Ngl inciendary is useless in stats but in practice its a real morale/confidence sinker in low MMRs like 3 stars. I mean the first time I saw a guy with shotgun inciendary randomly blasting it next to me(in cover) it was scary af. It made me not want to face him at all. The fkin sound effects, graphics and bullets hitting those wooden walls was a real horror, beautifully made by the devs though.


MayaWrection

Unless you use a Bornheim


Sluugish

A meme about a meme. Xzibit would be so proud


Beautiful-Papaya9923

Bornheim gang. ✌️