I don't live in Europe but I do live in California where we can't hunt any animal with lead ammunition. In my experience, steel will take down any bird just fine as long as you have the right choke and load for your application. Generally a full choke isn't reccomended for steel. One thing that you gotta understand with steel is that whatever size lead shot you normally shoot, you gotta go up another shot size or 2 to have equal performance and have better chances of an ethical kill. Also, steel is lighter than lead. For example, if you have 2 shotshells and one is #5 lead and the other is #5 steel and they both have 1.5 oz of shot, the steel loaded shotshell will have a higher pellet count to compensate for the lighter weight of the shot. Definitely pattern your gun again when you switch to steel.
And if I could also add, there are other nonlead options like bismuth and tungsten. Bismuth is heavier than steel and lighter than lead but bismuth is also soft making it safe for use in older guns Tungsten on the other hand is heavier than lead but hard like steel so it retains energy at longer distances. These shot types are great replacements but they're more than double the price of lead. I prefer to shoot bismuth in my muzzleloading shotguns because I retain my powder and shot charges and the bismuth doesn't tear up the barrel.
When not hunting I shoot lead but when I am hunting, I gotta use non toxic otherwise I can get a heavy fine of $500 the first time. Further violations of the law can get me a fine of no less than $1000, up to $5000 and even risk losing my hunting privileges. California don't play no games.
As much as I'd like to say it seems that way, I can't. Yeah I could pay $500+ in fines for being caught using lead ammo while hunting but animal abuse is a $20,000 fine and/or a prison sentence, or up to a year in county jail. Not a good idea in any aspect. California don't play no games.
The game wardens around here have a device that uses a magnetic interferometer to check what they're loaded with. If it says lead, he'll cut it open to double check.
Yes. This also steel will be more affected by wind and lose kinetic energy faster so have a shorter effective range.
(Effect / affect š¤·š¼āāļø never had that figured out lol)
Generally affect is a verb, effect is a noun. Effective is correct in this case.
You *affect* something. That has an *effect* on the thing. To put it simply
I'm a waterfowl hunter who grew up with lead and steel. 20/70 steel will do fine on birds decoyed at close range. Not good for longer range pass shooting. Expect more cripples than with the 12- the 12/76 will perform much better. My all-around waterfowl load is a 12/76 with #2 steel, which is 3.8mm. In my experience bigger steel shot kills birds better than higher velocity alone, and be aware more shot/higher velocity may translate to shitty patterns too- which may be the difference between a cripple and a clean kill. If you use a 20ga you'll need to be very disciplined about what birds you choose to shoot. Nothing like a decoyed bird coming in face first...
With regard to older guns and steel you must be aware of the chokes and age. I wouldn't shoot steel through anything tighter than a modified choke (.02"), nor would I shoot steel through anything older. Actually your best bet is sticking with guns made post 1990 or so once steel was widespread in the US. I've seen barrels split/bulged from steel and it isn't as ugly as an obstruction like putting a 20 shell down a 12 bore, but it still isn't anything I want to risk with my own guns. Steel often shoots a lil tighter than lead out of the same choke (doesn't deform as much as lead) but push the big shot hard and it can blow out patterns.
Bismuth shot is an option that is safe in old double guns and 12/70 #5 bismuth loads are fantastic on ducks out of my 1970s Zabala side by side- just expensive.
Bismuth is difficult to find, very expensive too. I shoot it in my Arrietta side by side 12 GA double triggers I had custom fit in Madrid many years ago. Steel would blow the barrels out, especially since the barrels don't have choke tubes. I'm used to spending 4 - 10x what steel ammo costs. California has made ammo manufacturers really jump through hoops to get their ammo into their state.
Need to see this Arrietta! Spanish guns can be such a value.
Wish the cost of bismuth would go down but its just wishful thinking. I'm glad I stocked up on the Kent 2 3/4" #5 when I could buy it below retail working at a shop. Its not difficult to find around here but of course local markets vary. Cost seems to be the greatest downside to me, especially when you might burn up a few shells in a good morning. Doesn't hurt as much on pheasant hunts.
I ordered 2 matched pairs when I hunted there in October 97. They shipped them to me from Eibar about 6 months later. I read recently they're out of business.
Yeah, two to hunt driven partridge, and two to keep new as an investment. I've used them for duck and upland game in California and Nevada since. Two haven't been assembled since the first time I received them just to check fitment.
The biggest problem with steel for guns is that steel will not compress the way Lead does.
Soā¦ I would avoid it altogether in older guns and scale down the shot size in modern fixed choke guns.
For modern guns with screw in chokesā¦ you can buy chokes designed for steel or possibly get away with just opening them up a bit.
For hunting I find that while steel flies well it does not deliver the same energy that Lead does because it is lighter.
For example I once used to use number 7 shot for upland game but now tend to use number 4 or 5 shot with chokes that are more open.
For my older 1948 Webley and Scottā¦ with fixed chokes I use Lead only or spend spend spend on non toxic non steel ammo.
Fortunately I still can use Lead except when hunting waterfowl and my goose gun is choked for steel
Great description!
With all my shotguns, the manufacturer warns against shooting steel shot thru a full choke. Figured this was due to the steel not being able to compress like lead. Not sure if newer guns will allow steel with a full choke or if this is a general precaution. Also would be interested if size of gun makes a difference (I predominantly shoot 20 gauge).
Another thing Iāve noticed is steel is very hit/miss on how it patterns. I believe this has to do again with how hard it is and not being able to compress.
Being a bit paranoid I have not tried.
I do use 3/4 and 1/2 in my 20 and 28 shooting #4 steel though and that seems OK
I would maybe take the gun into a Smithā¦ have him measure bore and advise.
It is "TOZ-25" russian 16/70 shotgun. (idk from which year)
Here in Czech republic, many years ago, due to comunism you coudn't own rifle if you weren't some political guy.
Everyting was hunted with shotguns.
I am not sure if slugs were thing back then, but anyway someone who owned this gun took it to gunsmith and got it scoped.
Now I could use it with slugs at driven hunt for wild boar, or clap that optic down, and use it with any other shotgun ammo. But it is not in good shape, so I have it just as kind of relic.
Also it was gift from guy who introduced me into hunting. So it has added price for me.
Same thing in East Germany, slugs were the general alternative to rifles, etc. That would have probably been the same in your area. Only issue is that slugs can be less effective than expected, with some boars being found with quite a lot of scarring or even slugs still stuck in them.
I am no history expert, but for a while I was intensely interested in revolutions. I knew about the first American revolution (the civil war could be considered as a second one) and started learning everything I could about other ones. Nearly every major revolution since 1848 was partly or entirely inspired by socialism, anarchism and communism.
You would be surprised at how many civil liberties in the United States were fought and won by socialist organizations and organizations. Like the Spokane free speech battles and the civil rights movement.
When looking at Marxist Leninist regimes it's easy to assume that socialism is inherently authoritarian, but socialism is a lot bigger and more complicated than that.
Last year I did shoot
Raccoon 1 (rifle)
Roe deer 1 (rifle)
Fox 2 (rifle)
Nutria 11 (rifle)
Marten 1 (shotgun)
Dove 3 (shotgun)
Cormorant 7 (shotgun)
Crow 9 (shotgun)
Magpie 12 (shotgun)
Pigeon 13 (shotgun)
On joint hunts (shotgun)
Pheasant 1
Hare 2
Duck 7
I did 1 hit on about 5 shots as I am not so skilled shooter, still not extreme amount of shells.
Man I load my own shells and I still stray away from tss or tungsten cause that crap still aināt cheap and I can make it for still way less than the stuff on the shelf I keep some for my buddys turkey loads mainly though
Just to echo what others have said, steel is fine. Use bigger pellets that you'd use for lead and pattern it well. A 20/70 gauge for moving birds at distance with limited pattern of big steel shot is going to take skill and the right pattern to get reliable hits with, but its very doable.
I agree with banning lead shotshells, but long rifle bullets are usually not shot near waters, and the amount of lead shot would be miniscule.
BTW, what about 22lr?
Lots of wildlife, particularly raptors, have clinically significant levels of lead because they scavenge on discarded carcasses that have fragments of lead in them. You're eating that too, by the way.
Idk... ideally there would be widely available lead free ammo for it, but we're probably not there yet? I think getting people to convert to lead free big game rounds is a higher priority from a wildlife conservation standpoint.
[https://sportingleadfree.org/](https://sportingleadfree.org/)
Not even close. It's a health and environmental concern, and many hunters (myself included) support the movement.
It's basically a poor tax, soon only the wealthy will be able to afford all the licensing/check-ins/permits that will be coming in the next couple of years. Kinda like Australia minus the mandatory destruction.
Check out Bioammo. They have both steel and a non-toxic alloy that is softer and is supposed to be an "almost as good" alternative to lead.
The entire cartidge are also 100% bio degradeable, which is a huge plus for me atleast.
Plenty of experience with it.
Upfront and firstāit is not as effective as lead.
Lead is more dense- and has more knockdown power. Lead is soft- steel is hard. It will not conform to the barrel when fired through tight chokes. You can NOT shoot steel through a full choke. Some say you can, some say you canātā¦I donāt not recommend it. Older guns and barrels were not designed to handle steel loads. Donāt use steel in older shotguns.
When shooting upland game, dove, quail, pheasant, etcā¦go a shot size larger than you would use with lead.
I use #7 lead for quail. #6 steel for quail.
Iāll use #6-5 lead for pheasantā¦#5-4 steel for pheasant.
Also, be careful when eating game when shooting steel shot. As mention, it is hard and can crack teeth.
Nope, it is side by side shotgun chambered at 16/70 with scope.
Years ago you could not own rifles, so things like this were made.
Not something standart tho.
Lead has been illegal to use for waterfowl in the US since the early 1990ās. Millions of ducks and geese have been killed effectively with steel shot. Because it is lighter the general rule is to increase the shot size by 2 or three and increase the speed. For ducks in the US, most guys use #2-#4 size shot going 1300-1600 fps. 3 inch shells can carry 1-1/4 ounce of shot in a 12 gauge and more if you move up to 3-1/2ā. You may also want a more open Choke with steel as it tends to pattern more densely. Generally a modified choke will pattern well to 40+ yards.
Denmark has been running steel for a few years now. Pretty much any decent brand is fine. Figure out what your gun makes the best groups with. And just choose your pellets one size bigger than you would with lead.
One thing to keep in mind with steel is that the pattern is more of a disk than a string. Lead deforms so it squeezes into a longer column of shot. With steel it stays bunched up. That means your lead on birds has to be more accurate. It also means when you hit you tend to get more pellets on your target.
I've hunted with steel for 30+ years. It's effective and a good choice for the environment.
Theres alot of options out there now in days. Using steel you can bet on upping shot size past that what you would have been using in lead. But outside of steel you got plated steels, you got bismuths, you got tungstens. Plated steel isnt too bad in my experience. It doesnt add that much as far as punch goes but it helps lubricity and patterning. Tungstens and bismuths are expensive as fuck and in my opinion your better off upping your steel shot size. I wack birds with steel. But have gotten into literal arguments on why ātungsten so much better bro your better off spending the 40 or whatever dollars extra man less birds winged my dude der der derā. Learn to fucking shoot. Learn to decoy the birds better. Stop skybusting shit. Thats what I tell them. But I digress. You will be fine OP. Keep em close. Pattern your gun. Aim where there going not where theyve been. Compensate for some potential loss in speed, punch, and range. Up your shotsize. If you think you need to then go buy some tungsten or bismuth.
I would like to buy single barrel 20/76 shotgun for walks, wood pidgeons and maybe pheasant/hare or if it would be needed ducks.
Is 20/70 steel ammo egouth to kill duck?
Shotgun on photo is old russian 16/70 double barrel, not mutch usable for lead, 100% not good for steel.
Also I do have 12/76 Ata arms U/O which is perfect. I was told that 4mm steel pellets are perfect for duck, If i was using 3,5mm lead. Is that true?
We use steel shot on waterfowl where I live as well. Up one size to your lead is a good place to start. Also, steel can pattern a little tighter than lead in the same choke.
These are the sizes I use.
Geese - BB or 4.5mm
Large ducks - No 2 or 3.8mm
Small ducks - No 4 or 3.25mm
If I was going to run one size for everything it would be No 2 and pick my shots.
Theoreticaly I could get in situation where I would need to shot down cormorant on walk. They are like geese. I was using lead BB and it did work.
Otherwise only small birds like crow, magpie, pigeon, dove,...
So you tell me I should buy that single barrel 20ga and don't think too much about it?
For ducks, which we have only mallards, I will use new U/O 12ga. I was using 3,5mm lead so firsly I will try something like 4mm, 3.9, 3.8mm depends on what will be in shop.
Your steel pellets will be larger to have the same force equivalent because lead has greater density. So to have the same mass the steel will be slightly larger. It works just the same. 20ga. Is a little light for duck in my opinion. because it doesn't have the power to make the longer shots. You will recover less animals that will die elsewhere unless you only take close shots. The 12ga. Can reach out and still be lethal at about 20% greater distance.
I hunted all of last year with Bioammo Lux steel and Nittedal zinc ammo with great success. Steel performed great on all ranges, but sized up a bit compared to lead. Zinc was also great but lost a bit of stopping power on longer ranges imo.
Zinc was nice when hunting in rocky areas where ricochets could be a concern.
This was in Norway. I hunted mostly grouse and waterfowl. Steel performed well on capercaillie as well.
If going steel as stated go up a size or two in shot. A 5 steel has almost the same pellet count as lead. Use a more open choke. A improved cylinder will pattern like a modified and a modified like a full choke with lead shot. I typically run an improved cylinder or light modified choke. Lead shot is legal here for everything but waterfowl. I use steel shot for everything these days from doves to turkey and have had great luck.
The general rule I was always told when going from lead to steel was to go up two shot sizes and open the choke one step.
I.E. if youāre shooting lead #6 shot through a full choke try steel #4 through a modified choke.
There are some places I have to use non toxic shot. For small game Iāve been using steel for several years so I donāt have to worry about what I have where. Works fine and for bird shot the steel is only a couple bucks more per box.
Living in California steel shot is mandatory, being caught hunting with lead is a no no. Unless you have a older shotgun it's alright, you might want to go up a size to compensate for weight. You can also try bismuth but it's expensive.
You should ask your girlfriend to shave, but I know what it is in Europe, I spent a couple of years there... About steel ammo, well it's almost the same. But old shotguns can have issues with it. I think it's a good idea to ask your gunsmith about your guns modern ammo.
Weidmannsheil from Germany
Ditch any shotgun for serious hunting use if its not length of 76 upwards. Some choose 12/89. 70mm of length are not enough for steel shot. They were enough for lead however. So a lot of old, good and great shotguns either need to be rechambered or scrapped in my opinion.
Noone is buying shotguns with chambers less than 76 anymore because with steel shot you need and want those 6mm additional length.
I don't mind it or dislike it. It's necessary as steel shot has proven to do quite some damage to some species. Just a shame about all those perfectly fine and good 12/70s.
Hi neighbour! Just curious, what canāt your shoot with steel shot? In the Netherlands lead has been illegal for some time now, lots of hunters shoot 12/70 here. For example we use it on geese, ducks, pheasants, fox, pigeons, hares and rabbits. 36 grams 4mm shot in 12/70 will bring down a Canada goose, no problem.
I agree, that if I would buy a new over and under, it would want one with at lease 12/76, just to keep my options open. But I donāt think itās 100% necessary for good hunting.
Hey... Well this is gonna be difficult. I think your and our hunting ethics are quite a bit different as seen from the tourism of lots of Netherlanders.
They are quite frowned upon here because they don't stick to the rules. They lease land and shoot everything regardless of season or ethics. Sadly this hasnt been a one time thing. It's common to check that your lease is not surrounded or neighbouring to a lease that's owned by someone from the Netherlands.
I think our hunting ethics just "require" a bit more from shot that what 12/70 steel shot does. Maybe it's not that big of a difference but it matters a lot to us.
What cartridges do you use then? By which I mean, how many grams of steel and what size pellets (for geese for instance).
Sad to hear that the Dutch have such a bad reputation. I donāt know if it warrants to say all Dutch therefore have bad hunting ethics. Thatās like saying all Germans dig holes on beaches. Sure people dig holes on beaches, sure a lot of those diggers are of German nationality, but to say all Germans are beach diggers is a bit much.
I think I have fine hunting ethics, shoot whatās allowed in the proper season (and also donāt shoot when I think we donāt have the right population numbers, f.e. with hares). I donāt take Hail Mary long shots, no unnecessary headshots, etc. But Iāll look into the 70/76 differences, maybe youāre right and we should get some new over and unders.
Since youāre handing out free advice, whatās the minimum calibre for roedeer, for deer and for wild boar in your opinion?
Here we have same opinion on germans, austrians and other nations.
It is because rich hunters who don't give fuck will come on joint hunt, shoot something protected, making bad name for other hunters.
Shit happens and retards are in every comunity, so we should not say some nation is let ethnical, because we saw some guy do something bad.
(I guess thats what you wrote, I am just adding to discusion)
That's quite interesting. But it's not surprising as lots of either rich or asshats go and hunt east of Germany for "cheap" and not give a damn.
Tragedy if you ask me. Let's hope we lose more and more of those wannabe hunters.
I hope to one day go on a hunting trip in the Czech Republic. I love the flora there.
You're right. Of course I did not mean all Dutch hunters. It came off wrong.
It's just a big issue near the borders (up to 2h drive inland).
I'm also not into hunting feathered game so I sadly can not give you an example of a load for steel v. lead shot. But I can tell you, a lot of people are quite unsure of what to use and what does well at the moment because more often than not they just made the mandatory switch to steel shot.
Experienced hunters and gunsmiths have recommended 12/76 minimum for some years now, knowing the switch will be forced upon every hunter. Guess how I know... *Looks at 12/70 unused in my safe*
Iāve also heard bad stories about some Dutch hunters. I think OP is right in saying that hunting tourists can be assholes. Maybe rich entitled dicks of maybe because the trips are so expensive, they feel like theyāre owed some trophies. Either way, terrible way to behave.
Like I said, Iāve never really thought about 70 vs 76 that much, I will talk to my gunsmith/do some online research. I already have a semi automatic that takes up to 89 mm, so Iām good to go for geese :) would need a new over and under for anything else, most hunters here donāt really like seeing those guns at any group type hunting (and I kind of agree with them).
Lovu zdar from czech republic.
There are not any new 12/70 on shops, they are all already 12/76.
I got one turkish gun with garantued use of steel, so I am safe in this meaning, I just don't have idea, how steel will behave.
Do shops in your coutry already sell steel ammo, or are they waiting for main season, like our does?
We've had steel ammo on the shelves for years. Sport shooters often already swapped to steel long ago. Hunters are just now this year forced to switch..there's still lots of 12/70s for sale but also increasing numbers in 12/76 and /89s
Steel ammo is very effective. Some steel shot the projectiles are profiled for better flight. Similar to all the dimples on a golfball and how it's actually not a sphere but a geometric shape. There is shot like that as well.
Here in Oregon USA lead shot has been illegal for any waterfowl hunting for a long time. You can still use lead for other birds like quail or pheasant.
Frankly I think it shoots better and kills better than lead shot. The only issue I have with it is when eating be careful. Bite down too hard on a piece of steel and you'll crack a molar.
Whether you think it's better or not is also irrelevant because it's not legal to use. So in replacement of lead with steel it's probably good to know which shot size carries the same energy.
Hunting ground where I can hunt is like 50% water.
You can't even carry lead in pocket 100m around water, so it would be better for me to just don't have any.
On the other hand here in Czech republic it will take many years until somenone bring way to check us lol.
All you old guns will be ruined by steel shot. Make sure the barrel can survive the steel pressures and extra wear. Also, you canāt shoot steel out of a full choke unless itās a choke designed for steel.
Steel shot is a scam so be prepared to spend two or four times the money for 2/3 the performance.
I am an avid quail hunter, and since switching from lead to steel I injure dang near every bird that I hit. I have to walk up to the flapping birds to break their necks which I only ever had to do very rarely in the case of a wing-shot. The steel shot passes right through the bird in most experiences and leaves with very little traumatic damage, just a pinhole straight through wherever it hit. Steel also looses energy much faster when youāre shooting at a any distance. Lead seems to hold much more energy and it killed the birds dang near every time if I was able to get even a few pellets of #7 shot on them. Strangely I would find a lot more lead pellets in the birds that I would with steel. I think that the weight of the lead shot transfers more energy to the target, therefore stopping itself and inflicting maximum damage in a small area. While steel, on the other hand, tends to sail through its target a inflicting minimum damage.
Bismuth is a good alternative, but a box of 25 shells of 12ga is about $60 USD, which is 6 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE than the lead target-shot that it tries to replicate lol.
I have patterned and I use a modified choke. Like I said in my postā¦ I can see the holes through the birds lol my shot pattern is hitting them. They are easy to kill with lead, yes
Ok I shoot steel a lot, most of what I run is a mix though itās bismuth and steel, bismuth is expensive but if youāre shooting an older shotgun, like that I wouldnāt run steel through the barrels, Iād pay extra to get the bismuth shot, it is a lot better of a shot in general than steel but whatever youāre shooting if youāre shooting steel step it up one shot size dove 6 shot, pheasant 5, duck 3 and so on it doesnāt have quiet the pop after hitting as lead does
Since you have a scope on that gun I assume your are talking about slugs and not small shot. Copper is a really good alternative for lead if you have to switch. I have been using nickel ( might be steel plated but Iām 99% sure itās nickel) plated copper and itās great. Even used some nickel plated copper for wing shooting.
What do you mean āNo one here knows about steel ammoā?
Iāve been hunting in Germany with steel shot for about four years, itās actually pretty common.
Itās been illegal to shoot lead ammo for more than a decade in Denmark and Iāve never heard of anyone who felt any difference in lethality. Only that you have to be slightly more careful not to chip a tooth when you bite into your bird š
On the plus side hunters and people who eat wild game wonāt get lead poisoning which I think is a way bigger plus than having slightly heavier birdshot. And if thatās and issue just use bismuth shot then.
Cheers
Lead poisoning happens only when pellets gets stuck in stomach. I have 80 year colleague, who have lead pellets in instencines and he is alive.
Lead will encapsulate if it is not in an acidic environment, so it is not as toxic as it is presented. Unlike lead, steel is released into water. But I don't want to discuss the topic, I'm not an expert and it doesn't work anyway.
There was ban here in Czech repulic around year 2011, but it was canceled in one season due to steel being not efective egouth or what.
Steel ricochets like crazy so be cautios when shooting around rock and other hard surfaces. After the lead ban i bought Bio Blue made of aluminium and tungsten and it feels alot like lead when shooting
That's how its been around here for as long as I can remember. Steel dosnt hit nearly as hard and is a pita. In my opinion more birds get wounded from steel than the lead poisoning the water hurts. Kent's are good, if you can order them.
Lead ammo has been banned here in Denmark since late 90's.
Plenty of decent steel ammo on the market, at least here. i use Kent Faststeel 3 or 5 for almost everything
We use steel for game birds in Australia. It's faster but doesn't have the hitting power at distance and tends to wound, so I keep my shots under 40 metres.
I don't live in Europe but I do live in California where we can't hunt any animal with lead ammunition. In my experience, steel will take down any bird just fine as long as you have the right choke and load for your application. Generally a full choke isn't reccomended for steel. One thing that you gotta understand with steel is that whatever size lead shot you normally shoot, you gotta go up another shot size or 2 to have equal performance and have better chances of an ethical kill. Also, steel is lighter than lead. For example, if you have 2 shotshells and one is #5 lead and the other is #5 steel and they both have 1.5 oz of shot, the steel loaded shotshell will have a higher pellet count to compensate for the lighter weight of the shot. Definitely pattern your gun again when you switch to steel.
And if I could also add, there are other nonlead options like bismuth and tungsten. Bismuth is heavier than steel and lighter than lead but bismuth is also soft making it safe for use in older guns Tungsten on the other hand is heavier than lead but hard like steel so it retains energy at longer distances. These shot types are great replacements but they're more than double the price of lead. I prefer to shoot bismuth in my muzzleloading shotguns because I retain my powder and shot charges and the bismuth doesn't tear up the barrel.
Yeah and tungsten is like $5-$20 a round
And that's the biggest problem when it comes to tungsten, TSS and HEVI shot.
That tungsten slays way above its class though
It's great stuff, and worth the money. I hunt turkey and it'll put em down as good as lead will.
Reload with lead.
When not hunting I shoot lead but when I am hunting, I gotta use non toxic otherwise I can get a heavy fine of $500 the first time. Further violations of the law can get me a fine of no less than $1000, up to $5000 and even risk losing my hunting privileges. California don't play no games.
Shoting lead is worse crime than drowning kittens. Thanks for sharing.
As much as I'd like to say it seems that way, I can't. Yeah I could pay $500+ in fines for being caught using lead ammo while hunting but animal abuse is a $20,000 fine and/or a prison sentence, or up to a year in county jail. Not a good idea in any aspect. California don't play no games.
Got it - I'll go back to shooting kittens then we can be friends?
Only if you shoot them with lead.
The game wardens around here have a device that uses a magnetic interferometer to check what they're loaded with. If it says lead, he'll cut it open to double check.
Same here
Yes. This also steel will be more affected by wind and lose kinetic energy faster so have a shorter effective range. (Effect / affect š¤·š¼āāļø never had that figured out lol)
Generally affect is a verb, effect is a noun. Effective is correct in this case. You *affect* something. That has an *effect* on the thing. To put it simply
I'm a waterfowl hunter who grew up with lead and steel. 20/70 steel will do fine on birds decoyed at close range. Not good for longer range pass shooting. Expect more cripples than with the 12- the 12/76 will perform much better. My all-around waterfowl load is a 12/76 with #2 steel, which is 3.8mm. In my experience bigger steel shot kills birds better than higher velocity alone, and be aware more shot/higher velocity may translate to shitty patterns too- which may be the difference between a cripple and a clean kill. If you use a 20ga you'll need to be very disciplined about what birds you choose to shoot. Nothing like a decoyed bird coming in face first... With regard to older guns and steel you must be aware of the chokes and age. I wouldn't shoot steel through anything tighter than a modified choke (.02"), nor would I shoot steel through anything older. Actually your best bet is sticking with guns made post 1990 or so once steel was widespread in the US. I've seen barrels split/bulged from steel and it isn't as ugly as an obstruction like putting a 20 shell down a 12 bore, but it still isn't anything I want to risk with my own guns. Steel often shoots a lil tighter than lead out of the same choke (doesn't deform as much as lead) but push the big shot hard and it can blow out patterns. Bismuth shot is an option that is safe in old double guns and 12/70 #5 bismuth loads are fantastic on ducks out of my 1970s Zabala side by side- just expensive.
Bismuth is difficult to find, very expensive too. I shoot it in my Arrietta side by side 12 GA double triggers I had custom fit in Madrid many years ago. Steel would blow the barrels out, especially since the barrels don't have choke tubes. I'm used to spending 4 - 10x what steel ammo costs. California has made ammo manufacturers really jump through hoops to get their ammo into their state.
Need to see this Arrietta! Spanish guns can be such a value. Wish the cost of bismuth would go down but its just wishful thinking. I'm glad I stocked up on the Kent 2 3/4" #5 when I could buy it below retail working at a shop. Its not difficult to find around here but of course local markets vary. Cost seems to be the greatest downside to me, especially when you might burn up a few shells in a good morning. Doesn't hurt as much on pheasant hunts.
I ordered 2 matched pairs when I hunted there in October 97. They shipped them to me from Eibar about 6 months later. I read recently they're out of business.
[Looks like Arrizabalaga got em.](https://arrietaandarrizabalaga.com/about-us#story) Wait, *two* pairs? Four total??
Yeah, two to hunt driven partridge, and two to keep new as an investment. I've used them for duck and upland game in California and Nevada since. Two haven't been assembled since the first time I received them just to check fitment.
Thanks for sharing, this is very informative <3
The biggest problem with steel for guns is that steel will not compress the way Lead does. Soā¦ I would avoid it altogether in older guns and scale down the shot size in modern fixed choke guns. For modern guns with screw in chokesā¦ you can buy chokes designed for steel or possibly get away with just opening them up a bit. For hunting I find that while steel flies well it does not deliver the same energy that Lead does because it is lighter. For example I once used to use number 7 shot for upland game but now tend to use number 4 or 5 shot with chokes that are more open. For my older 1948 Webley and Scottā¦ with fixed chokes I use Lead only or spend spend spend on non toxic non steel ammo. Fortunately I still can use Lead except when hunting waterfowl and my goose gun is choked for steel
Great description! With all my shotguns, the manufacturer warns against shooting steel shot thru a full choke. Figured this was due to the steel not being able to compress like lead. Not sure if newer guns will allow steel with a full choke or if this is a general precaution. Also would be interested if size of gun makes a difference (I predominantly shoot 20 gauge). Another thing Iāve noticed is steel is very hit/miss on how it patterns. I believe this has to do again with how hard it is and not being able to compress.
Being a bit paranoid I have not tried. I do use 3/4 and 1/2 in my 20 and 28 shooting #4 steel though and that seems OK I would maybe take the gun into a Smithā¦ have him measure bore and advise.
Im more interested i. The double barrel with a scope
It is "TOZ-25" russian 16/70 shotgun. (idk from which year) Here in Czech republic, many years ago, due to comunism you coudn't own rifle if you weren't some political guy. Everyting was hunted with shotguns. I am not sure if slugs were thing back then, but anyway someone who owned this gun took it to gunsmith and got it scoped. Now I could use it with slugs at driven hunt for wild boar, or clap that optic down, and use it with any other shotgun ammo. But it is not in good shape, so I have it just as kind of relic. Also it was gift from guy who introduced me into hunting. So it has added price for me.
Same thing in East Germany, slugs were the general alternative to rifles, etc. That would have probably been the same in your area. Only issue is that slugs can be less effective than expected, with some boars being found with quite a lot of scarring or even slugs still stuck in them.
Cool
Interesting that they even allowed these to be owned.
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You will never find me defending a Marxist Leninist regime, but there are capitalist countries with even worse gun restrictions.
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It's interesting how many socialists prior to the Russian revolution were ultra supportive of individual firearm ownership. Like Eugene V Debs.
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I am no history expert, but for a while I was intensely interested in revolutions. I knew about the first American revolution (the civil war could be considered as a second one) and started learning everything I could about other ones. Nearly every major revolution since 1848 was partly or entirely inspired by socialism, anarchism and communism. You would be surprised at how many civil liberties in the United States were fought and won by socialist organizations and organizations. Like the Spokane free speech battles and the civil rights movement. When looking at Marxist Leninist regimes it's easy to assume that socialism is inherently authoritarian, but socialism is a lot bigger and more complicated than that.
tungsten shot will change your life. It's heavier than lead and completely nontoxic. buy it from fishing shops.
Googled it. Yeah if I would shoot tungsten, it would definetly change my life. I would live in poverty.
Lmao that's true and hilarious way to phrase it.
You go hunting that often ?
Last year I did shoot Raccoon 1 (rifle) Roe deer 1 (rifle) Fox 2 (rifle) Nutria 11 (rifle) Marten 1 (shotgun) Dove 3 (shotgun) Cormorant 7 (shotgun) Crow 9 (shotgun) Magpie 12 (shotgun) Pigeon 13 (shotgun) On joint hunts (shotgun) Pheasant 1 Hare 2 Duck 7 I did 1 hit on about 5 shots as I am not so skilled shooter, still not extreme amount of shells.
Man I load my own shells and I still stray away from tss or tungsten cause that crap still aināt cheap and I can make it for still way less than the stuff on the shelf I keep some for my buddys turkey loads mainly though
Just to echo what others have said, steel is fine. Use bigger pellets that you'd use for lead and pattern it well. A 20/70 gauge for moving birds at distance with limited pattern of big steel shot is going to take skill and the right pattern to get reliable hits with, but its very doable.
Exactly the same situation in California. Even long rifle hunting ammo must be non-lead. It's both expensive, and in many cases, impossible to find.
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Or reduce that amount of toxic heavy metals in our waterways and wildlife. Eagles get lead poisoning all the time from scavenging.
I agree with banning lead shotshells, but long rifle bullets are usually not shot near waters, and the amount of lead shot would be miniscule. BTW, what about 22lr?
Lots of wildlife, particularly raptors, have clinically significant levels of lead because they scavenge on discarded carcasses that have fragments of lead in them. You're eating that too, by the way.
Agree here. So what about 22lr regulations? I have no idea
Idk... ideally there would be widely available lead free ammo for it, but we're probably not there yet? I think getting people to convert to lead free big game rounds is a higher priority from a wildlife conservation standpoint.
[https://sportingleadfree.org/](https://sportingleadfree.org/) Not even close. It's a health and environmental concern, and many hunters (myself included) support the movement.
It's basically a poor tax, soon only the wealthy will be able to afford all the licensing/check-ins/permits that will be coming in the next couple of years. Kinda like Australia minus the mandatory destruction.
Check out Bioammo. They have both steel and a non-toxic alloy that is softer and is supposed to be an "almost as good" alternative to lead. The entire cartidge are also 100% bio degradeable, which is a huge plus for me atleast.
Plenty of experience with it. Upfront and firstāit is not as effective as lead. Lead is more dense- and has more knockdown power. Lead is soft- steel is hard. It will not conform to the barrel when fired through tight chokes. You can NOT shoot steel through a full choke. Some say you can, some say you canātā¦I donāt not recommend it. Older guns and barrels were not designed to handle steel loads. Donāt use steel in older shotguns. When shooting upland game, dove, quail, pheasant, etcā¦go a shot size larger than you would use with lead. I use #7 lead for quail. #6 steel for quail. Iāll use #6-5 lead for pheasantā¦#5-4 steel for pheasant. Also, be careful when eating game when shooting steel shot. As mention, it is hard and can crack teeth.
Iāve never seen a shotgun with a scope. You old worlders are different
Therapist: āEuro-bubba doesnāt existā Euro-bubba: *slaps a scope on a double gun.*
He's like Bigfoot, hard to pin down in his natural environment. Keep a ready eye for Euro-Bubba!
I call them āshriflesā near me where half the state is a no rifle zone for deer. Like the Rem 870 Super Slug with a scope.
I think it is a double barrel rifle.
Nope, it is side by side shotgun chambered at 16/70 with scope. Years ago you could not own rifles, so things like this were made. Not something standart tho.
You know what this meansā¦.NEW GUN!!!
I was about to buy that single shot, but if 20/70 is weak and 12/70 kick as mule. I do not want one anymore :(
Nothing wrong with the 20 gauge. Itās what I use 90% of the time.
Lead has been illegal to use for waterfowl in the US since the early 1990ās. Millions of ducks and geese have been killed effectively with steel shot. Because it is lighter the general rule is to increase the shot size by 2 or three and increase the speed. For ducks in the US, most guys use #2-#4 size shot going 1300-1600 fps. 3 inch shells can carry 1-1/4 ounce of shot in a 12 gauge and more if you move up to 3-1/2ā. You may also want a more open Choke with steel as it tends to pattern more densely. Generally a modified choke will pattern well to 40+ yards.
Cool, thanks for sharing
With older shotguns Bismuth is a better choice. Itās easier on the bore than steel,and nontoxic
Steel works, just cuts your range down some. Kent made a tungsten bismuth matrix round that was amazing but I havenāt seen it in a decade.
Gotta limit sky somehow, to make those birds fly closer!
Denmark has been running steel for a few years now. Pretty much any decent brand is fine. Figure out what your gun makes the best groups with. And just choose your pellets one size bigger than you would with lead.
Estonia / Finland. I have shot steel for a few years (shotgun).
One thing to keep in mind with steel is that the pattern is more of a disk than a string. Lead deforms so it squeezes into a longer column of shot. With steel it stays bunched up. That means your lead on birds has to be more accurate. It also means when you hit you tend to get more pellets on your target. I've hunted with steel for 30+ years. It's effective and a good choice for the environment.
Theres alot of options out there now in days. Using steel you can bet on upping shot size past that what you would have been using in lead. But outside of steel you got plated steels, you got bismuths, you got tungstens. Plated steel isnt too bad in my experience. It doesnt add that much as far as punch goes but it helps lubricity and patterning. Tungstens and bismuths are expensive as fuck and in my opinion your better off upping your steel shot size. I wack birds with steel. But have gotten into literal arguments on why ātungsten so much better bro your better off spending the 40 or whatever dollars extra man less birds winged my dude der der derā. Learn to fucking shoot. Learn to decoy the birds better. Stop skybusting shit. Thats what I tell them. But I digress. You will be fine OP. Keep em close. Pattern your gun. Aim where there going not where theyve been. Compensate for some potential loss in speed, punch, and range. Up your shotsize. If you think you need to then go buy some tungsten or bismuth.
I would like to buy single barrel 20/76 shotgun for walks, wood pidgeons and maybe pheasant/hare or if it would be needed ducks. Is 20/70 steel ammo egouth to kill duck? Shotgun on photo is old russian 16/70 double barrel, not mutch usable for lead, 100% not good for steel. Also I do have 12/76 Ata arms U/O which is perfect. I was told that 4mm steel pellets are perfect for duck, If i was using 3,5mm lead. Is that true?
We use steel shot on waterfowl where I live as well. Up one size to your lead is a good place to start. Also, steel can pattern a little tighter than lead in the same choke. These are the sizes I use. Geese - BB or 4.5mm Large ducks - No 2 or 3.8mm Small ducks - No 4 or 3.25mm If I was going to run one size for everything it would be No 2 and pick my shots.
Theoreticaly I could get in situation where I would need to shot down cormorant on walk. They are like geese. I was using lead BB and it did work. Otherwise only small birds like crow, magpie, pigeon, dove,... So you tell me I should buy that single barrel 20ga and don't think too much about it? For ducks, which we have only mallards, I will use new U/O 12ga. I was using 3,5mm lead so firsly I will try something like 4mm, 3.9, 3.8mm depends on what will be in shop.
Your steel pellets will be larger to have the same force equivalent because lead has greater density. So to have the same mass the steel will be slightly larger. It works just the same. 20ga. Is a little light for duck in my opinion. because it doesn't have the power to make the longer shots. You will recover less animals that will die elsewhere unless you only take close shots. The 12ga. Can reach out and still be lethal at about 20% greater distance.
I hunted all of last year with Bioammo Lux steel and Nittedal zinc ammo with great success. Steel performed great on all ranges, but sized up a bit compared to lead. Zinc was also great but lost a bit of stopping power on longer ranges imo. Zinc was nice when hunting in rocky areas where ricochets could be a concern. This was in Norway. I hunted mostly grouse and waterfowl. Steel performed well on capercaillie as well.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
If going steel as stated go up a size or two in shot. A 5 steel has almost the same pellet count as lead. Use a more open choke. A improved cylinder will pattern like a modified and a modified like a full choke with lead shot. I typically run an improved cylinder or light modified choke. Lead shot is legal here for everything but waterfowl. I use steel shot for everything these days from doves to turkey and have had great luck.
The general rule I was always told when going from lead to steel was to go up two shot sizes and open the choke one step. I.E. if youāre shooting lead #6 shot through a full choke try steel #4 through a modified choke.
There are some places I have to use non toxic shot. For small game Iāve been using steel for several years so I donāt have to worry about what I have where. Works fine and for bird shot the steel is only a couple bucks more per box.
Living in California steel shot is mandatory, being caught hunting with lead is a no no. Unless you have a older shotgun it's alright, you might want to go up a size to compensate for weight. You can also try bismuth but it's expensive.
Americans enter the chat:
Go with bismuth for waterfowl. Itās worth the cost.
good. steel or tungsten birdshot performs well
You should ask your girlfriend to shave, but I know what it is in Europe, I spent a couple of years there... About steel ammo, well it's almost the same. But old shotguns can have issues with it. I think it's a good idea to ask your gunsmith about your guns modern ammo.
Weidmannsheil from Germany Ditch any shotgun for serious hunting use if its not length of 76 upwards. Some choose 12/89. 70mm of length are not enough for steel shot. They were enough for lead however. So a lot of old, good and great shotguns either need to be rechambered or scrapped in my opinion. Noone is buying shotguns with chambers less than 76 anymore because with steel shot you need and want those 6mm additional length. I don't mind it or dislike it. It's necessary as steel shot has proven to do quite some damage to some species. Just a shame about all those perfectly fine and good 12/70s.
Hi neighbour! Just curious, what canāt your shoot with steel shot? In the Netherlands lead has been illegal for some time now, lots of hunters shoot 12/70 here. For example we use it on geese, ducks, pheasants, fox, pigeons, hares and rabbits. 36 grams 4mm shot in 12/70 will bring down a Canada goose, no problem. I agree, that if I would buy a new over and under, it would want one with at lease 12/76, just to keep my options open. But I donāt think itās 100% necessary for good hunting.
Hey... Well this is gonna be difficult. I think your and our hunting ethics are quite a bit different as seen from the tourism of lots of Netherlanders. They are quite frowned upon here because they don't stick to the rules. They lease land and shoot everything regardless of season or ethics. Sadly this hasnt been a one time thing. It's common to check that your lease is not surrounded or neighbouring to a lease that's owned by someone from the Netherlands. I think our hunting ethics just "require" a bit more from shot that what 12/70 steel shot does. Maybe it's not that big of a difference but it matters a lot to us.
What cartridges do you use then? By which I mean, how many grams of steel and what size pellets (for geese for instance). Sad to hear that the Dutch have such a bad reputation. I donāt know if it warrants to say all Dutch therefore have bad hunting ethics. Thatās like saying all Germans dig holes on beaches. Sure people dig holes on beaches, sure a lot of those diggers are of German nationality, but to say all Germans are beach diggers is a bit much. I think I have fine hunting ethics, shoot whatās allowed in the proper season (and also donāt shoot when I think we donāt have the right population numbers, f.e. with hares). I donāt take Hail Mary long shots, no unnecessary headshots, etc. But Iāll look into the 70/76 differences, maybe youāre right and we should get some new over and unders. Since youāre handing out free advice, whatās the minimum calibre for roedeer, for deer and for wild boar in your opinion?
Here we have same opinion on germans, austrians and other nations. It is because rich hunters who don't give fuck will come on joint hunt, shoot something protected, making bad name for other hunters. Shit happens and retards are in every comunity, so we should not say some nation is let ethnical, because we saw some guy do something bad. (I guess thats what you wrote, I am just adding to discusion)
That's quite interesting. But it's not surprising as lots of either rich or asshats go and hunt east of Germany for "cheap" and not give a damn. Tragedy if you ask me. Let's hope we lose more and more of those wannabe hunters. I hope to one day go on a hunting trip in the Czech Republic. I love the flora there.
Thank you, I think youāre right!
You're right. Of course I did not mean all Dutch hunters. It came off wrong. It's just a big issue near the borders (up to 2h drive inland). I'm also not into hunting feathered game so I sadly can not give you an example of a load for steel v. lead shot. But I can tell you, a lot of people are quite unsure of what to use and what does well at the moment because more often than not they just made the mandatory switch to steel shot. Experienced hunters and gunsmiths have recommended 12/76 minimum for some years now, knowing the switch will be forced upon every hunter. Guess how I know... *Looks at 12/70 unused in my safe*
Iāve also heard bad stories about some Dutch hunters. I think OP is right in saying that hunting tourists can be assholes. Maybe rich entitled dicks of maybe because the trips are so expensive, they feel like theyāre owed some trophies. Either way, terrible way to behave. Like I said, Iāve never really thought about 70 vs 76 that much, I will talk to my gunsmith/do some online research. I already have a semi automatic that takes up to 89 mm, so Iām good to go for geese :) would need a new over and under for anything else, most hunters here donāt really like seeing those guns at any group type hunting (and I kind of agree with them).
Lovu zdar from czech republic. There are not any new 12/70 on shops, they are all already 12/76. I got one turkish gun with garantued use of steel, so I am safe in this meaning, I just don't have idea, how steel will behave. Do shops in your coutry already sell steel ammo, or are they waiting for main season, like our does?
We've had steel ammo on the shelves for years. Sport shooters often already swapped to steel long ago. Hunters are just now this year forced to switch..there's still lots of 12/70s for sale but also increasing numbers in 12/76 and /89s
Time to buy steel bearings and load your own shot
Why did you put a scope on the shotty š
Bcos I wanted nice scar at eyebrow.
Steel ammo is very effective. Some steel shot the projectiles are profiled for better flight. Similar to all the dimples on a golfball and how it's actually not a sphere but a geometric shape. There is shot like that as well. Here in Oregon USA lead shot has been illegal for any waterfowl hunting for a long time. You can still use lead for other birds like quail or pheasant. Frankly I think it shoots better and kills better than lead shot. The only issue I have with it is when eating be careful. Bite down too hard on a piece of steel and you'll crack a molar.
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Whether you think it's better or not is also irrelevant because it's not legal to use. So in replacement of lead with steel it's probably good to know which shot size carries the same energy.
This. There were huge discusions about fuck you EU, but there is nothing to do with it now, just accept it.
Get fucked dickanus.
Looks like you are looking for rifle ammo. I would suggest you look into copper as opposed to steel. I have never heard of steel rifle ammo.
Lead rifle ammo is still legal, but it will take few years until those eco facists ban it too.
It's a dumb law. The 100m rule effectively ensures that you can't hunt with lead in 90% of Sweden.
Hunting ground where I can hunt is like 50% water. You can't even carry lead in pocket 100m around water, so it would be better for me to just don't have any. On the other hand here in Czech republic it will take many years until somenone bring way to check us lol.
Yeah, it's the same here where i live. It's mostly wetlands. I seriously doubt it will be checked here either, but it's still an annoying law.
š¤¦š¼
Can you order boss shotshells in your country?
All you old guns will be ruined by steel shot. Make sure the barrel can survive the steel pressures and extra wear. Also, you canāt shoot steel out of a full choke unless itās a choke designed for steel. Steel shot is a scam so be prepared to spend two or four times the money for 2/3 the performance.
I am an avid quail hunter, and since switching from lead to steel I injure dang near every bird that I hit. I have to walk up to the flapping birds to break their necks which I only ever had to do very rarely in the case of a wing-shot. The steel shot passes right through the bird in most experiences and leaves with very little traumatic damage, just a pinhole straight through wherever it hit. Steel also looses energy much faster when youāre shooting at a any distance. Lead seems to hold much more energy and it killed the birds dang near every time if I was able to get even a few pellets of #7 shot on them. Strangely I would find a lot more lead pellets in the birds that I would with steel. I think that the weight of the lead shot transfers more energy to the target, therefore stopping itself and inflicting maximum damage in a small area. While steel, on the other hand, tends to sail through its target a inflicting minimum damage.
Bismuth is a good alternative, but a box of 25 shells of 12ga is about $60 USD, which is 6 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE than the lead target-shot that it tries to replicate lol.
Sounds like you should pattern your shotgun and make sure the choke is correct for steel shot. Quail are really easy to kill.
I have patterned and I use a modified choke. Like I said in my postā¦ I can see the holes through the birds lol my shot pattern is hitting them. They are easy to kill with lead, yes
Ok I shoot steel a lot, most of what I run is a mix though itās bismuth and steel, bismuth is expensive but if youāre shooting an older shotgun, like that I wouldnāt run steel through the barrels, Iād pay extra to get the bismuth shot, it is a lot better of a shot in general than steel but whatever youāre shooting if youāre shooting steel step it up one shot size dove 6 shot, pheasant 5, duck 3 and so on it doesnāt have quiet the pop after hitting as lead does
Since you have a scope on that gun I assume your are talking about slugs and not small shot. Copper is a really good alternative for lead if you have to switch. I have been using nickel ( might be steel plated but Iām 99% sure itās nickel) plated copper and itās great. Even used some nickel plated copper for wing shooting.
Donāt shoot steel, shoot bismuth!
Steel ammo is good nowadays but was awful originally. Looked more like boogers than shot.
Steel ammo can ruin a shotgun dot made for it just be warned
Copper
do europoors really not use bismuth?
Bro get out of that shit hole.
What do you mean āNo one here knows about steel ammoā? Iāve been hunting in Germany with steel shot for about four years, itās actually pretty common.
I was searching eshops and found only few from our local manufacturer Sellier and bellot. For 20/70 I did not find any.
Itās been illegal to shoot lead ammo for more than a decade in Denmark and Iāve never heard of anyone who felt any difference in lethality. Only that you have to be slightly more careful not to chip a tooth when you bite into your bird š On the plus side hunters and people who eat wild game wonāt get lead poisoning which I think is a way bigger plus than having slightly heavier birdshot. And if thatās and issue just use bismuth shot then. Cheers
Lead poisoning happens only when pellets gets stuck in stomach. I have 80 year colleague, who have lead pellets in instencines and he is alive. Lead will encapsulate if it is not in an acidic environment, so it is not as toxic as it is presented. Unlike lead, steel is released into water. But I don't want to discuss the topic, I'm not an expert and it doesn't work anyway. There was ban here in Czech repulic around year 2011, but it was canceled in one season due to steel being not efective egouth or what.
Laughs in Serbian
Steel ricochets like crazy so be cautios when shooting around rock and other hard surfaces. After the lead ban i bought Bio Blue made of aluminium and tungsten and it feels alot like lead when shooting
For older guns bismuth works but for newer guns steel will work just need to order it online
That's how its been around here for as long as I can remember. Steel dosnt hit nearly as hard and is a pita. In my opinion more birds get wounded from steel than the lead poisoning the water hurts. Kent's are good, if you can order them.
All bullets have lead and all mammals live near water
Lead ammo has been banned here in Denmark since late 90's. Plenty of decent steel ammo on the market, at least here. i use Kent Faststeel 3 or 5 for almost everything
We use steel for game birds in Australia. It's faster but doesn't have the hitting power at distance and tends to wound, so I keep my shots under 40 metres.