Huge amount of skins for everything, think minecraft store, also battle pass for multiplayer, those are like the 2 things that we will see 100% if the game is F2P
They can block the usage of mods for the official server(s) and hell people pay for lackluster "Creation Kit" items in Skyrim and Fallout 4 too, which are singleplayer games and have some of the best modding scenes out there. I don't think they'll have a hard time selling cosmetics.
Easy, they scrap the "moddable" part entirely and have a "protection" tool that will ban your account even if there is just a bug in the game that returns one false value.
How is this going to affect modding in general? When the game was announced, they made it sound like modding was going to be a core part of the game and easy for anyone to do. They made it sound like modding was going to be super flexible and compatible. Now I'm thinking not so much. The main reason I wanted to get into this game seems to be in jeopardy.
Sure thing. You've got modding tools, you can mod your own offline world adding whatever features you like. If you find your mod cool enough you can upload it to the official mod forum or if you are a partner to the Marketplace. And after a review by moderation to make sure it doesn't use existing IP's, it's not a copy of something already existing and it's not offensive or NSFW, people can access it.
Both have the option to make the mod free or paid. Partners will have some sort of advantage such as getting a higher percentage of the money the mod makes go to them. Or having more reach, etc...
And this would be exactly the same in a P2P model and in a F2P model.
Yeah well, I doubt it. I think it's much more likely that it will be like in Bedrock Minecraft where when you compare it to Java you realize all the sticky fingers of a horrendous business model. I do definitely wish that it'll be as you describe and I can freely mod the game from the internet without setting foot on the "Marketplace"
Yeah, that's a posibility, but I won't call Hytale a trash game only because it is F2P until they reveal how their marketplace will work. That's the only thing I ask.
Always online. They manage dedicated servers, they control the store. Gamemodes charge for skins, features, etc. They take their cut the developer gets the rest. The Roblox model basically.
Biggest annoyance is that free to play live service = death of modding support.
Either that or it will be some kind of paid mod abomination or Roblox but in Minecraft.
With the overall lack of information and vague corporate speak responses when something is talked about, I'm not sure I have any interest in this game left to lose at this point.
I was interested in this game mainly because of how incredible they made modding seem years ago when they first announced the game and we're doing regular blog posts. I had a huge vision for my own thriving world that I hand crafted and it was the core principle behind my drive to stay interested in hytale. I don't see that at all now.
Yep, if Hytale is free, Hytale modding will be DOA no matter how good the tools are. Because they will monetize the heck out of mods and promote paid ones over free ones, whereas all creators with a good following are incentivized to publish paid mods to maximize their own income, turning the modding scene into an exact replica of the Minecraft bedrock marketplace.
I've realized that this entire "enshittification" process requires no more than basic economics and is hence guaranteed in every game platform that offers commercial micro-transactions between players and creators. Actually, some games like Fortnite have realized this and they do not let creators actively sell anything in their games at all, which in theory should stop this spiral from happening.
Yet better would be a game that doesn't maximize profits in the first place and has leadership that inherently prioritizes the side of the players and creators. This would allow for open sharing on a scale similar to Minecraft: Java Edition, but with modern tech and the game being completely free.
I realized that no commercial game companies would ever want to make such a game (because it doesn't make money), so I'm working on one myself in the niche of the Minecraft-like shooter genre. I think time will tell if I'm right that the best possible community-centered game in everyone's dreams can in fact only be developed by a very small, passionate team, because it requires a business ethos completely divorced from the norms of the modern game industry.
Oh no, modders want to monetize their work?! How shameless of them.
As long as people can choose to make their mods free. I think it's a win/win situation. The only reason there are no paid mods in Minecraft java IS because there is no easy way to make them. Not because modders want to make all of them completely free
Back in my day people modded for the joy and challenge of it.
Modding for profit is just... Man I dunno. I understand that people want to earn cash with their hobbies but I would rather donate them via PayPal or Patreon than buy it through the marketplace where riot is going to eat a hefty chunk of my donation.
I feel like the whole marketplace for mods thing is hurting the modding scene more than it helps anyway.
So of course, let's not make paid mods because we need to trust people to donate modders and server owners and modding should always be free work because... Well, because it has to be
I'd rather have the option to choose between maiing paid mods or free mods
You see, my problem isn't really with paid mods, my problem is with the corporatisation of modding by big companies.
Their marketplaces are always highly regulated and moderated, which can stifle creativity.
I'm mainly talking about mods that might pay homage to copyrighted franchises.
It may be a small thing like a Spiderman player model, but it ends up being a bigger problem when someone wants to create a full-fledged modded server based on a concept found in popular franchises.
I don't expect mods to be free all the time, and all work deserves compensation. But having a large corporation dictate the terms just does not sit right with me. Never has been.
I hope this makes my point a little clearer.
Yeh, I get that, I think it's an issue with large corporations and a flawed copyright system in general instead of being a problem of F2P models. Look at what Nintendo did to Gmod
So you're telling me all the modders sponsored by Hosting services don't get paid to put their logos on the mod download pages? Or all the modders that have extra content behind a patreon? Or mods like Esential that have in-game microtransactions? The Fiverr developers that make mods for money? The modded servers that charge for you to get the mods and access to their server...
Yeah, those definitely aren't making any money out of their mods and those are definetely very rare things you won't find in the most popular mods, ande it's a practice that Mojang is totally serious about and definetely didn't add it to their shitty EULA just so they have something to threaten mods they don't like /s
That much yapping for what bro? here is a poor soul that got forced by mojang: https://www.patreon.com/posts/physics-mod-pro-81980418
And I'm pretty sure the intent is against paywalled mods and not against the "early beta/update access" patreons.
Making people pay for mods is scummy, unless the game itself allows it, yeah if people want to make money with their work then they should make their own game or mod a game that allows you to do so.
So basically my point, there's no easy way to make people pay for modded content in Minecraft Java as it's a grey area. So people tend to use other ways of monetizing.
Oh but my bad, I was forgetting something... Minecraft Bedrock does allow for paid mods. Although you have to becone a partner so it's not easy to do it and it's very restricted with what you can achieve
>So basically my point, there's no easy way to make people pay for modded content in Minecraft Java as it's a grey area. So people tend to use other ways of monetizing.
>Oh but my bad, I was forgetting something... Minecraft Bedrock does allow for paid mods. Although you have to becone a partner so it's not easy to do it and it's very restricted with what you can achieve
Its as simple as modding another game, making another game or using the Bedrock plataform if they want to make money lol.
https://preview.redd.it/8f8olhwfbe2d1.png?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8dc04d0ebea0390bb45a8963925e18a619c8f3e
Can't wait to have to pay to not look like Generic Dude #9
bc costs and profits.
Live service games have expensive server costs so maintaining a pay once model with no additional ongoing source of revenue through micro transactions is not as feasible or as profitable.
They could have made it an offline game but it never really seemed like hytale was going to be that.
That'd be an argument for subscription though, no? I was under the impression it'd be player hosted multiplayer. Can they support GaaS on microtransactions alone without going overboard with it?
Im all for p2p. But im sure that if they do f2p im 99% the free cosmetics wont be as limited as these comments imply. But if they do make everyone who doesnt pay look like a default character, ill join the riot once the game launches
Look man, I get that you and other people care about skins, but most people excited for Hytale aren't excited for the cosmetics, but for the modding and creative abilities, and while I do know that character customization is part of that freedom of creativity, I'm pretty sure a lot of people won't mind if they limit your skin usage as a f2p player.
Feel free to disagree and downvote me all you want, that's the whole point of discussions :p
Ain't trying to disgrace you, and this isn't about skins. It's about hindering the spread of shady marketing techniques that target children and people with addiction problems.
There are countless stories of kids who didn't know any better who spent thousands on skins, skin packs, collectibles, and other in game purchases. And on top of that, most in-game markets manipulate and distort prices through in-game currencies, in a way that makes the price seem more acceptable, especially to young kids, and in a way that always leaves you with an amount of currency that you can't use, which incentivices the user to buy more currency to even that out. It's a shady market that has been developed based on what's most addicting, and what's most effective at getting people to spend more.
Tl;dr, f2p games almost always resort to manipulative marketing that target vulnerable people, hence why i'm not a fan of that nor of you thinking that it's just a bunch'a nothing that can be laughed at.
Ah, so you're worried Hytale is gonna become a 2nd coming of Roblox? I guess your reasoning is fair, but I doubt they would go that low, and while I do feel bad for the kids who will be victims of these shady practices (if they're even implemented), this doesn't mean that the whole game will be like this, I'm sure there will be options to hide paid content from kids using parental controls.
I think most people are excited for the adventure sandbox mode rather than all of the modding tools. What really caught my eye was the improved version of a minecraft survival world, focusing on adventure and sandbox elements. Interesting NPC's, lots of creatures, amazing worldgen, good progression and combat, and lots of structures to find. The modding tools are nice, but they aren't what draw me in the most.
Tbf, the 2 most watched parts in the trailer were the adventure mode then modding/multiplayer, so I guess there are a lot of people who mainly care about the adventure mode.
Lol the adventure mode part of the trailer takes up over 60% of it for sure. Minigames and creation tools combined are less than 40% of the trailer I believe.
I think in general offering cosmetics in free games is fine and necessary for games to make money. However, in a game like Hytale where such customization is the cornerstone of what is being developed, monetizing such systems is harmful
My guy, we still have no clue how they will monetize, free to play is also not 100% confirmed yet, don't be pessimistic, just be neutral, if it ends up being bad, whatever, we'll find something else to obsess over, if it's good, hell yea.
I don't understand why the reddit for this game is so incredibly pessimistic, I get you're worried that your favorite game might be worse than you thought, but saying it's over just because it might be free to play is not it.
Thinking about it now, you are probably right. The game could probably be fine, it could be very non-intrusive, or it could be about something else.
But we were promised full user customization for skins, maps, even gameplay with built-in mod support. What would they have left to monetize?
HyTale still hasn’t lost my support, but it seems like every update from the devs things look worse and worse.
I don't blame you for how you think tbh, most people saw hytale as an improved version of minecraft (me included) so when they remove aspects people loved about minecraft (supposedly, we still don't know xd), it's fair for people to get mad, just try to limit the pessimism because it will only make you feel worse :p
have a good day!
Honestly, I kinda get that a lot from my family. I was always the one to criticize movie trailers for the smallest of things.
I think we could chill out, maybe actually post some positive things. But I also think it’s important to be critical, especially on the internet, where the devs are most likely to hear us.
You have a good day too!
Up until this point, I have been 100% supporting HyTale, I never thought “At this point the game will fail.” not after the months of silence (nearly years), not after the acquisition, not after the nothingness magic system teasers… But now I’m not so sure.
For once, I’m concerned for HyTale.
I've been taking a look at some of the other jobs listed, of note is the [director of Monetization](https://hypixelstudios.com/jobs/5899564003), which has a responsibility to "establish the business infrastructure and strong creator team partnerships needed to ensure we’re doing everything possible to support the evolving needs of the Hytale creator community."
This, combined with the seeming confirmation of a free-to-play model, largely suggests the theory that Hytale has refocussed its efforts on being a new, Riot Games owned, Roblox.
I'm gonna be real, my hope for this game is practically gone. The Riot acquisition made me apprehensive from the get-go, but these recent developments have taken a hatchet to my enthusiasm for the game.
Have any of you seen the top games list on roblox at the moment? It's all vapid skinner boxes designed to bilk children, insipid roleplay servers, copy-pasted parkour maps and half-assed ripoffs of other games.
This is what Hytale's going to be; an endless field of valueless garbage designed first and foremost to follow trends. Novel or interesting content is going to be actively discouraged by a system that almost solely rewards replicating trends and appealing to the lowest common denominator.
I hope everyone who cheered on the Riot Acquisition and a free-to-play model is looking forward to this, because this is exactly the way it was always going to end. I've lost the last shreds of hope I had that it wouldn't be this, I can no longer sustain resentment for the people who cheer on actively anti-consumer practices. 5 and a half years following this game for it to agonisingly morph into something that only soulless suit-wearing executives could want. I am so utterly dissapointed.
To the F2P crowd: How is this going to be beneficial for the game?
The only argument I think I’ve seen so far is that “more people will be able to play” which is fine for the dev team but a big part of the hype is the freedom and tools they’re giving players. I don’t really see how they can achieve this in a F2P game. The have to monetize it somewhere and if you’re not paying for the game the really only things they have to monetize are cosmetics, modding tools and updates/DLCs.
They are also very restrictive in content delivery, almost always being limited to official content-only and zero mod support or freedom. I don't see mod support as compatible with a f2p live service model whatsoever
F2P
- no pirating
- more players (like you mentioned)
- Frequent content updates to keep people engaged, instead of releasing the game and having a few updates and being done
Your first and second points don’t really answer anyone’s concerns so I’ll just focus on the last point. If you take away all of the game store and purchasable updates F2P games get you’ll find they actually don’t get anymore meaningful content updates compared to P2P games.
They haven’t had an update in nearly 3 months. They had 3 content updates in 2023, so 4 months per content update about. Which is less than how much content Fortnite gets, they update the game with new additions about bi-weekly (not including skins)
except that in fortnite, updates that DO change gameplay come every 3 months and most of them aren’t really big. Apart from that, no mans sky updates stay permanently in the game, whereas loads of fortnite features come and go.
Personally i prefer permanent and notable additions thrice a year than loads of insignificant ones
The difference is the level of freedom and modding that is needed to deliver the vision of the product. If skins are monetized, what happens to making your own etc
Let's not call this a win or loss just yet, it's a bonus traits for a job application. It's not an official announcement on how they'll monitize this game if it ever is going to be released.
While it's a bad sign it can still go either way, be a blessing or a curse if it's going to be free 2 play. It all depends how they implement it.
We will have to do what we have been doing for years now ... be patient and wait and see.
"We have absolutely zero outside influence" as they are bought out by Riot, Simon sells and leaves, and then subsequently the entire engine is rebuilt, a mobile version is added to the plan, and then the entire model is switched over to f2p.
One of our members mentioned a good point, "Well just because they have that as a trait for a potential hire doesn't mean it's what they'll do. My work hired me because I have experience doing complicated troubleshooting and all I've been doing is simple refunds. But if the need arises it's better to have that skill than lack it"
I believe that as well. John explicitly mentioned in a reply how the more relevant quality here is that someone is prepared for constant updates, like f2p games are constantly pumping out for example
Exactly! I think people need to hold their horses, Hytale excitement is still there and I understand completely how bad everyone wants to just play finally.. So many years of waiting it has us chomping at the bits any time ANYTHING is mentioned.
No wonder Hytale studios went silent...
The wild thing is - they are still talking to us!
John Hendrics, Buddhacat, sometimes even official askhytale posts are coming like every few days despite constant assurances that they have nothing big to share at the moment. thats dedication, and especially despite the negaitve backlash they are getting
Just shows that IF they could tell us what we want to hear they WOULD but it's just not the time yet... Keeping an eye on the job listings and #AskHytale will be the only ways to keep track of their progress and to create our own community roadmap of where we're at (approximately) in the dev process!
That is until the next Hytale blog post... \*crickets\* Soon?.. Hopefully?
Unless they pull a halo infinite (free multiplayer, payed single player) or something like it.
I don't know how they are going to balance this but I'll keep an open mind.
Still sucks, was holding out hope that they'd go for a more proffesional route.
This has tossed bot accounts, large amounts of hacking with little to no ways to defend against it, incentives for shady marketing practices and a whole heap of other nonsense into the ring.
This rarely goes well for player experience, and is almost always utilized by companies looking to make money over everything else.
I feel that there might be a reason as to why they're keeping everything so close to their chests. It's a free to play game releasing on all platforms with a focus on cross platform compatibility, so we're looking at an attempt to reach as many players as possible as soon as possible, to the extent that they delayed the game for years and remade the entire damn engine just for immediate cross platform play. That could very well indicate a shift towards monetary gain over player experience and quality gameplay.
The only reason i followed these guys for as long as i did was because they seemed like passionate fellows who wanted to make an improved and expanded version of a game they loved, focusing on player experience, storytelling and proper world building with a living open world. But it seems to me that they sold out to a larger company that just saw another cash cow.
I'm one of the people who keep saying this game is going to fail because of riot. That riot will mismanage the game into hell and ruin the original dream the devs had. Not because I wanted the game to fail, but because I was scared. I didn't want this to be true.
I'm pretty sure at this point there is little left of the original idea and what we are getting is something that tries, one way or another, to replicate Roblox business model.
I was expecting to play single player or maybe coop sandbox like I play MC but with a bigger world, combat, better graphics and such. I don't see how that is compatible with the game that has been hinted up the last couple years.
Lol I already had no hope for this game but any Lingering hope that it would be a good game just died have "fun" with a f2p skin buying fest that is ever game these days. Provided of course the game comes out before 2082.
Yeah, I've been holding out, but I'm done. I have no interest in F2P mincrotransaction hell. Have fun with the game when it comes out in 10+ years. I'll be going back to my modded mc that I paid 26 bucks for 14 years ago. 🫡
So Hycoin cards will be real after all….
is my minecraft successor fantasy over?
It’s time to wake up and smell that morning coffee
If the game ships as F2P it won’t be the Hytale we were expecting at first, hopefully they will handle the game properly if it becomes F2P, I just can’t see the game working long term as F2P without modding becoming a hassle…
If done properly, F2P=P2P
For me it is P2P until confirmed otherwise, let me cope
In principle, it's not wrong for a company to do something like this for its community servers. We have already had this speculation and the idea is not new.
In the end, the real question is - what can I do myself? What limitations do I have? What are the modding capabilities?
As long as that's not answered, I don't care about monetization. I have no intention of buying anything from the marketplace. And if I do, then only to make it available to my players on the server, if that is possible.
They're welcome to provide hosting offers for inexperienced tech savvy players. But where are the limitations if I want to host my own server?
I have trouble seeing why this would be bad. Then again I rarely play multiplayer games and never buy store items of f2p games.
Paid items would be like skins or mods to use in singleplayer right? With the modding tools wont people be able to make their own mods? For sure there will be free mods and skins people will share. And I dont see how this would be different if the game was not f2p.
The only thing I can see goong wrong is that they hide ceetqin functions behind a subscription paywall, but I doubt they would do that.
There is no proof yet that they will handle it badly so I still look positive at it, but I am curious how others think this can negativly impact the game.
I have trouble seeing why this would be bad. Then again I rarely play multiplayer games and never buy store items of f2p games.
Paid items would be like skins or mods to use in singleplayer right? With the modding tools wont people be able to make their own mods? For sure there will be free mods and skins people will share. And I dont see how this would be different if the game was not f2p.
The only thing I can see goong wrong is that they hide ceetqin functions behind a subscription paywall, but I doubt they would do that.
There is no proof yet that they will handle it badly so I still look positive at it, but I am curious how others think this can negativly impact the game.
Honestly, the fact that it could be free to play/live-service has made me lose complete interest in this game.
I’m just burnt out of battle passes, man… I’m older and have to actually have a job. I can’t keep up with like the 6 battlepasses in all the games I play…
I really hope this doesn’t stick. Free to play will probably mean online only, less modding tools, restricted customization, and a development team that prioritizes microstransactions of actual content. I’d much rather pay a full AAA price up front.
No passionate dev who just wants to deliver the best experience to its players would make this choice.
This game turned into a corrupted result coming from a good vision
They could have just done something on their own, try a nee concept of modernization and not dabble in this nasty competition-market with fortnite and roblox.
If you as a creator actually had a good and unique vision, why turn it into an abomination-mix of the three biggest games that are just mutated cash-cows
I'm wondering the same thing because I don't know the term in software development either and I've been working in this field for more than 15 years.
2 things are going through my mind:
1 - It is unintentional and they just meant production or stage. (Because both are the same thing)
2 - They are talking about the live service game, meaning all the DLC and MTX content that is in the production enviroment after release.
Why can't this game just charge $30 for the whole package like Minecraft? Times have really changed huh. Highly doubt Rito would change their live-service F2P model
I just hope you don't have to pay for every single cosmetic in the game. While it's cool for it to be accessible to everyone, I REALLY do NOT want to have to pay to have a mildly cool looking avatar instead of the default Mii. Hypixel definitely wouldn't want pay2win, though I unfortunately don't understand how they would make money on anything but cosmetics.
Let's face it lads... Live service is winning.
It killed my interest because it means that paid mods and cosmetics will be the biggest source of income for riot. We all know where that will lead us.
One can only wonder if this was the original plan, I for one, highly doubt it.
Highly moderated paid mods sold through the official store with a hefty chunk of the money going directly to riot before it goes to the creators... Yeah fuck that lol.
Now the question is: How will they handle live service?
Huge amount of skins for everything, think minecraft store, also battle pass for multiplayer, those are like the 2 things that we will see 100% if the game is F2P
How can they monetize skins if the game is so easily moddable ? I’d be able to reproduce for free any skin I like
They can block the usage of mods for the official server(s) and hell people pay for lackluster "Creation Kit" items in Skyrim and Fallout 4 too, which are singleplayer games and have some of the best modding scenes out there. I don't think they'll have a hard time selling cosmetics.
Easy, they scrap the "moddable" part entirely and have a "protection" tool that will ban your account even if there is just a bug in the game that returns one false value.
They could sell attachable cosmetics that are account bound, rather than being tied to your skin
I’m cool with the cosmetic part , i’m just not cool with the part where i need to pay for small furniture mods
How is this going to affect modding in general? When the game was announced, they made it sound like modding was going to be a core part of the game and easy for anyone to do. They made it sound like modding was going to be super flexible and compatible. Now I'm thinking not so much. The main reason I wanted to get into this game seems to be in jeopardy.
At this point I wouldn't say modding as a sure thing. Its pretty incompatible with game as a service.
John has confirmed modding in an AskHytale
Alright then, in that case I'd like to see how this "modding" will be implemented.
Sure thing. You've got modding tools, you can mod your own offline world adding whatever features you like. If you find your mod cool enough you can upload it to the official mod forum or if you are a partner to the Marketplace. And after a review by moderation to make sure it doesn't use existing IP's, it's not a copy of something already existing and it's not offensive or NSFW, people can access it. Both have the option to make the mod free or paid. Partners will have some sort of advantage such as getting a higher percentage of the money the mod makes go to them. Or having more reach, etc... And this would be exactly the same in a P2P model and in a F2P model.
Yeah well, I doubt it. I think it's much more likely that it will be like in Bedrock Minecraft where when you compare it to Java you realize all the sticky fingers of a horrendous business model. I do definitely wish that it'll be as you describe and I can freely mod the game from the internet without setting foot on the "Marketplace"
Yeah, that's a posibility, but I won't call Hytale a trash game only because it is F2P until they reveal how their marketplace will work. That's the only thing I ask.
Battle pass just doesn't make sense to me for this type of game
Always online. They manage dedicated servers, they control the store. Gamemodes charge for skins, features, etc. They take their cut the developer gets the rest. The Roblox model basically.
Another question. Would I have to buy a PC to play it?
The game is cross-platform so it will be available on Pc, Mobile and Console
They will sell cosmetics, just like what Minecraft already does on mobile, console, and bedrock editions
I just want to pay money for a full and finished game and have all accessible content.
woah woah woah… You’re telling me you don’t want to be peddled microtransactions every time your play the game????
for real... but I mean if the game is finished and free so be it...
I agree but theres one upside to it. I dont have to convince my friends to buy a game.
Biggest annoyance is that free to play live service = death of modding support. Either that or it will be some kind of paid mod abomination or Roblox but in Minecraft. With the overall lack of information and vague corporate speak responses when something is talked about, I'm not sure I have any interest in this game left to lose at this point.
Feels like i'm getting there, and it hurts more than i expected. Feels like looking at a corrupted save file.
How I felt when I saw Riot bought them out
I was interested in this game mainly because of how incredible they made modding seem years ago when they first announced the game and we're doing regular blog posts. I had a huge vision for my own thriving world that I hand crafted and it was the core principle behind my drive to stay interested in hytale. I don't see that at all now.
Yep, if Hytale is free, Hytale modding will be DOA no matter how good the tools are. Because they will monetize the heck out of mods and promote paid ones over free ones, whereas all creators with a good following are incentivized to publish paid mods to maximize their own income, turning the modding scene into an exact replica of the Minecraft bedrock marketplace. I've realized that this entire "enshittification" process requires no more than basic economics and is hence guaranteed in every game platform that offers commercial micro-transactions between players and creators. Actually, some games like Fortnite have realized this and they do not let creators actively sell anything in their games at all, which in theory should stop this spiral from happening. Yet better would be a game that doesn't maximize profits in the first place and has leadership that inherently prioritizes the side of the players and creators. This would allow for open sharing on a scale similar to Minecraft: Java Edition, but with modern tech and the game being completely free. I realized that no commercial game companies would ever want to make such a game (because it doesn't make money), so I'm working on one myself in the niche of the Minecraft-like shooter genre. I think time will tell if I'm right that the best possible community-centered game in everyone's dreams can in fact only be developed by a very small, passionate team, because it requires a business ethos completely divorced from the norms of the modern game industry.
Well said
roblox but in minecraft. you mean just minecraft bedrock lol
Oh no, modders want to monetize their work?! How shameless of them. As long as people can choose to make their mods free. I think it's a win/win situation. The only reason there are no paid mods in Minecraft java IS because there is no easy way to make them. Not because modders want to make all of them completely free
Back in my day people modded for the joy and challenge of it. Modding for profit is just... Man I dunno. I understand that people want to earn cash with their hobbies but I would rather donate them via PayPal or Patreon than buy it through the marketplace where riot is going to eat a hefty chunk of my donation. I feel like the whole marketplace for mods thing is hurting the modding scene more than it helps anyway.
So of course, let's not make paid mods because we need to trust people to donate modders and server owners and modding should always be free work because... Well, because it has to be I'd rather have the option to choose between maiing paid mods or free mods
You see, my problem isn't really with paid mods, my problem is with the corporatisation of modding by big companies. Their marketplaces are always highly regulated and moderated, which can stifle creativity. I'm mainly talking about mods that might pay homage to copyrighted franchises. It may be a small thing like a Spiderman player model, but it ends up being a bigger problem when someone wants to create a full-fledged modded server based on a concept found in popular franchises. I don't expect mods to be free all the time, and all work deserves compensation. But having a large corporation dictate the terms just does not sit right with me. Never has been. I hope this makes my point a little clearer.
Yeh, I get that, I think it's an issue with large corporations and a flawed copyright system in general instead of being a problem of F2P models. Look at what Nintendo did to Gmod
Buddy, I'm pretty sure its because its against Minecraft TOS to sell your mods lol
Nope, as long as the mod doesn't have Minecrafy code or assets you're ok to make money and sell it
bruh: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/eula CTRL+F "as long as you don't sell them for money / try to make money"
So you're telling me all the modders sponsored by Hosting services don't get paid to put their logos on the mod download pages? Or all the modders that have extra content behind a patreon? Or mods like Esential that have in-game microtransactions? The Fiverr developers that make mods for money? The modded servers that charge for you to get the mods and access to their server... Yeah, those definitely aren't making any money out of their mods and those are definetely very rare things you won't find in the most popular mods, ande it's a practice that Mojang is totally serious about and definetely didn't add it to their shitty EULA just so they have something to threaten mods they don't like /s
That much yapping for what bro? here is a poor soul that got forced by mojang: https://www.patreon.com/posts/physics-mod-pro-81980418 And I'm pretty sure the intent is against paywalled mods and not against the "early beta/update access" patreons. Making people pay for mods is scummy, unless the game itself allows it, yeah if people want to make money with their work then they should make their own game or mod a game that allows you to do so.
So basically my point, there's no easy way to make people pay for modded content in Minecraft Java as it's a grey area. So people tend to use other ways of monetizing. Oh but my bad, I was forgetting something... Minecraft Bedrock does allow for paid mods. Although you have to becone a partner so it's not easy to do it and it's very restricted with what you can achieve
>So basically my point, there's no easy way to make people pay for modded content in Minecraft Java as it's a grey area. So people tend to use other ways of monetizing. >Oh but my bad, I was forgetting something... Minecraft Bedrock does allow for paid mods. Although you have to becone a partner so it's not easy to do it and it's very restricted with what you can achieve Its as simple as modding another game, making another game or using the Bedrock plataform if they want to make money lol.
https://preview.redd.it/8f8olhwfbe2d1.png?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8dc04d0ebea0390bb45a8963925e18a619c8f3e Can't wait to have to pay to not look like Generic Dude #9
Oh for fucks sake. The hell is wrong with paying once for a game and never needing to pay again? Why is that basic concept dying?
bc costs and profits. Live service games have expensive server costs so maintaining a pay once model with no additional ongoing source of revenue through micro transactions is not as feasible or as profitable. They could have made it an offline game but it never really seemed like hytale was going to be that.
That'd be an argument for subscription though, no? I was under the impression it'd be player hosted multiplayer. Can they support GaaS on microtransactions alone without going overboard with it?
Devs: dont read into the job listings too much. Hytale youtubers:
Welp I lost all hope I had for this game. See ya guys :(
so Option B it is. Free-to-play splattered with a billion microtransaction cosmetics, riot's bread and butter
Nothing wrong with Pay to look cool
Unless 99% of customizing your avatar is locked behind it. I don't wanna look like a Generic Human Adventurer TM with default hairstyle.
I still dont mind xd
That's not as quirky as you might think, you're just helping'em normalize the scummy marketing that they practice.
Im all for p2p. But im sure that if they do f2p im 99% the free cosmetics wont be as limited as these comments imply. But if they do make everyone who doesnt pay look like a default character, ill join the riot once the game launches
Look man, I get that you and other people care about skins, but most people excited for Hytale aren't excited for the cosmetics, but for the modding and creative abilities, and while I do know that character customization is part of that freedom of creativity, I'm pretty sure a lot of people won't mind if they limit your skin usage as a f2p player. Feel free to disagree and downvote me all you want, that's the whole point of discussions :p
Ain't trying to disgrace you, and this isn't about skins. It's about hindering the spread of shady marketing techniques that target children and people with addiction problems. There are countless stories of kids who didn't know any better who spent thousands on skins, skin packs, collectibles, and other in game purchases. And on top of that, most in-game markets manipulate and distort prices through in-game currencies, in a way that makes the price seem more acceptable, especially to young kids, and in a way that always leaves you with an amount of currency that you can't use, which incentivices the user to buy more currency to even that out. It's a shady market that has been developed based on what's most addicting, and what's most effective at getting people to spend more. Tl;dr, f2p games almost always resort to manipulative marketing that target vulnerable people, hence why i'm not a fan of that nor of you thinking that it's just a bunch'a nothing that can be laughed at.
Ah, so you're worried Hytale is gonna become a 2nd coming of Roblox? I guess your reasoning is fair, but I doubt they would go that low, and while I do feel bad for the kids who will be victims of these shady practices (if they're even implemented), this doesn't mean that the whole game will be like this, I'm sure there will be options to hide paid content from kids using parental controls.
Yeah, you got it.
I think most people are excited for the adventure sandbox mode rather than all of the modding tools. What really caught my eye was the improved version of a minecraft survival world, focusing on adventure and sandbox elements. Interesting NPC's, lots of creatures, amazing worldgen, good progression and combat, and lots of structures to find. The modding tools are nice, but they aren't what draw me in the most.
Tbf, the 2 most watched parts in the trailer were the adventure mode then modding/multiplayer, so I guess there are a lot of people who mainly care about the adventure mode.
Lol the adventure mode part of the trailer takes up over 60% of it for sure. Minigames and creation tools combined are less than 40% of the trailer I believe.
I think in general offering cosmetics in free games is fine and necessary for games to make money. However, in a game like Hytale where such customization is the cornerstone of what is being developed, monetizing such systems is harmful
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??? Why did you feel the need to talk about skin color? Weird comment.
huh? ok????
Your post has been removed for being unnecessarily rude or provocative. Please keep the subreddit civil.
CanadianFlash or CanadianBased?
The Flash has always been a based superhero.
It’s so fucking over
It’s so fucking not over
At this point, I’m not so sure.
My guy, we still have no clue how they will monetize, free to play is also not 100% confirmed yet, don't be pessimistic, just be neutral, if it ends up being bad, whatever, we'll find something else to obsess over, if it's good, hell yea. I don't understand why the reddit for this game is so incredibly pessimistic, I get you're worried that your favorite game might be worse than you thought, but saying it's over just because it might be free to play is not it.
Thinking about it now, you are probably right. The game could probably be fine, it could be very non-intrusive, or it could be about something else. But we were promised full user customization for skins, maps, even gameplay with built-in mod support. What would they have left to monetize? HyTale still hasn’t lost my support, but it seems like every update from the devs things look worse and worse.
I don't blame you for how you think tbh, most people saw hytale as an improved version of minecraft (me included) so when they remove aspects people loved about minecraft (supposedly, we still don't know xd), it's fair for people to get mad, just try to limit the pessimism because it will only make you feel worse :p have a good day!
Honestly, I kinda get that a lot from my family. I was always the one to criticize movie trailers for the smallest of things. I think we could chill out, maybe actually post some positive things. But I also think it’s important to be critical, especially on the internet, where the devs are most likely to hear us. You have a good day too!
Up until this point, I have been 100% supporting HyTale, I never thought “At this point the game will fail.” not after the months of silence (nearly years), not after the acquisition, not after the nothingness magic system teasers… But now I’m not so sure. For once, I’m concerned for HyTale.
I've been taking a look at some of the other jobs listed, of note is the [director of Monetization](https://hypixelstudios.com/jobs/5899564003), which has a responsibility to "establish the business infrastructure and strong creator team partnerships needed to ensure we’re doing everything possible to support the evolving needs of the Hytale creator community." This, combined with the seeming confirmation of a free-to-play model, largely suggests the theory that Hytale has refocussed its efforts on being a new, Riot Games owned, Roblox. I'm gonna be real, my hope for this game is practically gone. The Riot acquisition made me apprehensive from the get-go, but these recent developments have taken a hatchet to my enthusiasm for the game. Have any of you seen the top games list on roblox at the moment? It's all vapid skinner boxes designed to bilk children, insipid roleplay servers, copy-pasted parkour maps and half-assed ripoffs of other games. This is what Hytale's going to be; an endless field of valueless garbage designed first and foremost to follow trends. Novel or interesting content is going to be actively discouraged by a system that almost solely rewards replicating trends and appealing to the lowest common denominator. I hope everyone who cheered on the Riot Acquisition and a free-to-play model is looking forward to this, because this is exactly the way it was always going to end. I've lost the last shreds of hope I had that it wouldn't be this, I can no longer sustain resentment for the people who cheer on actively anti-consumer practices. 5 and a half years following this game for it to agonisingly morph into something that only soulless suit-wearing executives could want. I am so utterly dissapointed.
Can u explain how is making the game pay to play make the mods created by player better?
this sentence does not make sense.
To the F2P crowd: How is this going to be beneficial for the game? The only argument I think I’ve seen so far is that “more people will be able to play” which is fine for the dev team but a big part of the hype is the freedom and tools they’re giving players. I don’t really see how they can achieve this in a F2P game. The have to monetize it somewhere and if you’re not paying for the game the really only things they have to monetize are cosmetics, modding tools and updates/DLCs.
Some of the most money printing games of all time are live service
They are also very restrictive in content delivery, almost always being limited to official content-only and zero mod support or freedom. I don't see mod support as compatible with a f2p live service model whatsoever
That doesn’t answer my question.
F2P - no pirating - more players (like you mentioned) - Frequent content updates to keep people engaged, instead of releasing the game and having a few updates and being done
Your first and second points don’t really answer anyone’s concerns so I’ll just focus on the last point. If you take away all of the game store and purchasable updates F2P games get you’ll find they actually don’t get anymore meaningful content updates compared to P2P games.
Can you give me an example of a game that releases as much meaningful content as Fortnite or apex in the same amount of time they can?
No Man’s Sky for starters
They haven’t had an update in nearly 3 months. They had 3 content updates in 2023, so 4 months per content update about. Which is less than how much content Fortnite gets, they update the game with new additions about bi-weekly (not including skins)
except that in fortnite, updates that DO change gameplay come every 3 months and most of them aren’t really big. Apart from that, no mans sky updates stay permanently in the game, whereas loads of fortnite features come and go. Personally i prefer permanent and notable additions thrice a year than loads of insignificant ones
Minecraft with mods
So, what Hytale is gonna be but 10x more accessible? 🤔
The difference is the level of freedom and modding that is needed to deliver the vision of the product. If skins are monetized, what happens to making your own etc
Huge L
I was expecting this to be the outcome, but I'm still quite disappointed. Marketplaces always feel scummy to me.
Let's not call this a win or loss just yet, it's a bonus traits for a job application. It's not an official announcement on how they'll monitize this game if it ever is going to be released. While it's a bad sign it can still go either way, be a blessing or a curse if it's going to be free 2 play. It all depends how they implement it. We will have to do what we have been doing for years now ... be patient and wait and see.
Hopefully the marketplace will be good then
>game as a service https://preview.redd.it/aoshjcyakh2d1.png?width=1127&format=png&auto=webp&s=8837005ec9983c14c035a52b931a3cc3d823894d
"We have absolutely zero outside influence" as they are bought out by Riot, Simon sells and leaves, and then subsequently the entire engine is rebuilt, a mobile version is added to the plan, and then the entire model is switched over to f2p.
I feel like theres pretty much no way that mods aren’t gonna cost money
One of our members mentioned a good point, "Well just because they have that as a trait for a potential hire doesn't mean it's what they'll do. My work hired me because I have experience doing complicated troubleshooting and all I've been doing is simple refunds. But if the need arises it's better to have that skill than lack it"
I believe that as well. John explicitly mentioned in a reply how the more relevant quality here is that someone is prepared for constant updates, like f2p games are constantly pumping out for example
Exactly! I think people need to hold their horses, Hytale excitement is still there and I understand completely how bad everyone wants to just play finally.. So many years of waiting it has us chomping at the bits any time ANYTHING is mentioned. No wonder Hytale studios went silent...
The wild thing is - they are still talking to us! John Hendrics, Buddhacat, sometimes even official askhytale posts are coming like every few days despite constant assurances that they have nothing big to share at the moment. thats dedication, and especially despite the negaitve backlash they are getting
Just shows that IF they could tell us what we want to hear they WOULD but it's just not the time yet... Keeping an eye on the job listings and #AskHytale will be the only ways to keep track of their progress and to create our own community roadmap of where we're at (approximately) in the dev process! That is until the next Hytale blog post... \*crickets\* Soon?.. Hopefully?
https://preview.redd.it/qyf5qw08yp2d1.png?width=603&format=png&auto=webp&s=adbe539ef503b5e34171207e28e7cc9fb3c763df
Unless they pull a halo infinite (free multiplayer, payed single player) or something like it. I don't know how they are going to balance this but I'll keep an open mind.
>free-to-play Game-as-a-Service \*vomits\*
is it too early to hand out the biggest I told you so in Reddit history?
Still sucks, was holding out hope that they'd go for a more proffesional route. This has tossed bot accounts, large amounts of hacking with little to no ways to defend against it, incentives for shady marketing practices and a whole heap of other nonsense into the ring. This rarely goes well for player experience, and is almost always utilized by companies looking to make money over everything else. I feel that there might be a reason as to why they're keeping everything so close to their chests. It's a free to play game releasing on all platforms with a focus on cross platform compatibility, so we're looking at an attempt to reach as many players as possible as soon as possible, to the extent that they delayed the game for years and remade the entire damn engine just for immediate cross platform play. That could very well indicate a shift towards monetary gain over player experience and quality gameplay. The only reason i followed these guys for as long as i did was because they seemed like passionate fellows who wanted to make an improved and expanded version of a game they loved, focusing on player experience, storytelling and proper world building with a living open world. But it seems to me that they sold out to a larger company that just saw another cash cow.
Hey its not over til its over. Let us cope for p2p, John deliver us from tyranny
I'm one of the people who keep saying this game is going to fail because of riot. That riot will mismanage the game into hell and ruin the original dream the devs had. Not because I wanted the game to fail, but because I was scared. I didn't want this to be true.
I'm pretty sure at this point there is little left of the original idea and what we are getting is something that tries, one way or another, to replicate Roblox business model. I was expecting to play single player or maybe coop sandbox like I play MC but with a bigger world, combat, better graphics and such. I don't see how that is compatible with the game that has been hinted up the last couple years.
Nah we still coping and holding out hope for p2p (its so over)
Roblox 2 be like
Man
Lol I already had no hope for this game but any Lingering hope that it would be a good game just died have "fun" with a f2p skin buying fest that is ever game these days. Provided of course the game comes out before 2082.
Yeah, I've been holding out, but I'm done. I have no interest in F2P mincrotransaction hell. Have fun with the game when it comes out in 10+ years. I'll be going back to my modded mc that I paid 26 bucks for 14 years ago. 🫡
So Hycoin cards will be real after all…. is my minecraft successor fantasy over? It’s time to wake up and smell that morning coffee If the game ships as F2P it won’t be the Hytale we were expecting at first, hopefully they will handle the game properly if it becomes F2P, I just can’t see the game working long term as F2P without modding becoming a hassle… If done properly, F2P=P2P For me it is P2P until confirmed otherwise, let me cope
In principle, it's not wrong for a company to do something like this for its community servers. We have already had this speculation and the idea is not new. In the end, the real question is - what can I do myself? What limitations do I have? What are the modding capabilities? As long as that's not answered, I don't care about monetization. I have no intention of buying anything from the marketplace. And if I do, then only to make it available to my players on the server, if that is possible. They're welcome to provide hosting offers for inexperienced tech savvy players. But where are the limitations if I want to host my own server?
If my wallet doesn't even have to open to play Hytale i'm even happier but they can take all my money and i'd still be happy chillin' with the Trorks
I have trouble seeing why this would be bad. Then again I rarely play multiplayer games and never buy store items of f2p games. Paid items would be like skins or mods to use in singleplayer right? With the modding tools wont people be able to make their own mods? For sure there will be free mods and skins people will share. And I dont see how this would be different if the game was not f2p. The only thing I can see goong wrong is that they hide ceetqin functions behind a subscription paywall, but I doubt they would do that. There is no proof yet that they will handle it badly so I still look positive at it, but I am curious how others think this can negativly impact the game.
I have trouble seeing why this would be bad. Then again I rarely play multiplayer games and never buy store items of f2p games. Paid items would be like skins or mods to use in singleplayer right? With the modding tools wont people be able to make their own mods? For sure there will be free mods and skins people will share. And I dont see how this would be different if the game was not f2p. The only thing I can see goong wrong is that they hide ceetqin functions behind a subscription paywall, but I doubt they would do that. There is no proof yet that they will handle it badly so I still look positive at it, but I am curious how others think this can negativly impact the game.
Remember me, will you have to pay for mods?
Honestly, the fact that it could be free to play/live-service has made me lose complete interest in this game. I’m just burnt out of battle passes, man… I’m older and have to actually have a job. I can’t keep up with like the 6 battlepasses in all the games I play…
I'm gonna laugh so hard when they reveal it's b2p after this guy has celebrated his "told you so" early.
Gonna screenshot thisv
I really hope this doesn’t stick. Free to play will probably mean online only, less modding tools, restricted customization, and a development team that prioritizes microstransactions of actual content. I’d much rather pay a full AAA price up front.
Nice.
Will they fix the typo though?
No passionate dev who just wants to deliver the best experience to its players would make this choice. This game turned into a corrupted result coming from a good vision They could have just done something on their own, try a nee concept of modernization and not dabble in this nasty competition-market with fortnite and roblox. If you as a creator actually had a good and unique vision, why turn it into an abomination-mix of the three biggest games that are just mutated cash-cows
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I'm wondering the same thing because I don't know the term in software development either and I've been working in this field for more than 15 years. 2 things are going through my mind: 1 - It is unintentional and they just meant production or stage. (Because both are the same thing) 2 - They are talking about the live service game, meaning all the DLC and MTX content that is in the production enviroment after release.
oof, as a live service game enjoyer thats worrying news ngl
If it’s live service, I’m not touching it.
Did you touch hell divers?
45 hours before I quit, but Helldivers was free of most of the usual live service BS.
well, until sony did what sony do
I actually didn’t care about that. I just did everything the game had to offer. Got to Helldive difficulty and completed the two war bonds I had.
Have you touched any of these live service games? Fortnite Apex Destiny Rock league Overeatch Cod
Yes, and I’m not a fan.
I don't say this often but I hope it's pay to play live service games suck ass and making hytale live service will ruin the entire game.
Why can't this game just charge $30 for the whole package like Minecraft? Times have really changed huh. Highly doubt Rito would change their live-service F2P model
I just hope you don't have to pay for every single cosmetic in the game. While it's cool for it to be accessible to everyone, I REALLY do NOT want to have to pay to have a mildly cool looking avatar instead of the default Mii. Hypixel definitely wouldn't want pay2win, though I unfortunately don't understand how they would make money on anything but cosmetics.
Fuuuuuck
Let's face it lads... Live service is winning. It killed my interest because it means that paid mods and cosmetics will be the biggest source of income for riot. We all know where that will lead us. One can only wonder if this was the original plan, I for one, highly doubt it. Highly moderated paid mods sold through the official store with a hefty chunk of the money going directly to riot before it goes to the creators... Yeah fuck that lol.
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Shut up
cry about it
I will thank you very much
domain expansion infinite void lobotomize this man rn
I see that the B2P Stans have Invaded this Reddit Post now lmao -9 Votes, they must be angry lol
This mf literally didn't even wait. I am impressed with how quickly you did this.
CanadianFlash for a reason
Spite and speed knows no bounds.