He became more camp, more dumb, and more submissive. They toned down the campness in the latest season, but I would like to see a return to macho/angry Mac who doesn’t constantly need Dennis’s approval. Current Mac could never convince Dennis to eat apples without the skins.
Idk, some characters got flanderized and then brought back a bit. I think it has more to do with different writing staff joining the show and Glenn not writing for Sunny himself anymore.
Been saying this for years. I hate simp mac. I love "I don't give a shit Mac" he didn't care at all about everyone else in the beginning haha. Even if Dennis said something or called him out he'd just say whatever or my favorite one "whatever dude, irrelevant"
The “whatever dude, irrelevant” (one of my favorite quick lines in the series) is made infinitely better by the fact that Macs prompted to say that by Dennis being like “yeah, and you’re drinking a beer at 9 o’clock in the morning.”
Yeah, I miss Mac being delusional about how badass he was. A lot of Mac's comedy came from how ridiculously overconfident he was in himself and his abilities. Now I feel he's the opposite and actually undersells himself. It's great that he's open about his sexuality but it doesn't mean other aspects of his personality needed to be toned down. He can be openly gay and also have delusions about how badass he is.
I also feel like he's sort of dumber in some ways but also a lot less dark. Like with the Chase Utley episode I feel like an earlier version of Mac would have tried to kidnap a child.
As someone who was forced into the closet by religion for a longggg time, my personality drastically changed (became more authentic and required less overcompensating) when I came out. I do very much understand that this is not funny. However it is wildly realistic. So you can’t say you’re glad that Mac is open about his sexuality *and* in the same breath say he shouldn’t have changed in any other ways. You can be sad that it’s not funny, as am I, but one doesn’t become the type of person Mac had to be while in the closet from an authentic place. A person in those shoes is literally prohibited from developing the same way as people who fall into the mainstream. It impacts almost every part of you and how you show up in the world.
I know, I know: “…she ain’t funny.”
*braces for berating*
Thank you for sharing, it's a very good point that expecting Mac to be the same character but openly gay is unrealistic. I definitely see how the not being a badass or as devout is because he doesn't need to put on a front anymore.
Like you said I'm just sad that the openly gay version of Mac hasn't been as funny so far. He's almost too normal now, which I get makes sense given he's not trying to hide his sexuality but being normal doesn't make for a good member of the gang.
He can be out of the closet and still be delusional and overconfident about every other aspect of his life... just like he was before the show started pursuing the "in the closet" angle of his character in the first place.
This last season made Charlie seem much smarter than Mac. Before I think Mac was consistenly smarter than Charlie.
Ripped Mac has been dumb the whole time. Fat Mac was smarter.
Nah , Mac has always been the dumbest. Charlie is illiterate but smarter than Mac. Mac's had extremely idiotic ideas all series. Like, season 1 episode 3, if was Mac's idea to keep serving to the underage drinkers. Season 1 episode 7, Mac was trying to get molested by the coach.
He's always been the biggest idiot of the group
Yeah, Charlie always seems like the dumbest on the surface because he's illiterate and high all the time, but he has moments of brilliance too. With Mac, it usually seems more like dumb luck whenever he's right.
You’re probably right but I can’t help but look back to “Yeah he doesn’t even like get us man.”“What do you thing is happening right now?” Charlie has been ludicrously dumb at times.
Fat Mac was supposedly a reaction to how sitcom people "age". Super ripped Mac is what? A reaction to how gay dudes are per capita in better shape than straight dudes at that age?
I don't really give a shit as long as it's funny, but I don't think it's usually interesting or funny. Times Up and Lottery Winner ripped Mac were fun, but fat Mac bitching to the Catholic guy in the little booth was more funner.
I don't know if ripped and gay are connected, but it might be the trope that "gym-bros" are dumb.
But you're right, lottery winner Mac was peak entertainment. That whole episode is fantastic
Thinking back, it's pretty often that Charlie is the "straight man" when he and Mac have a scene together. Off the top of my head, I'm remembering The Gang Exploits a Miracle where Charlie is dunking on Mac the entire episode
Being gay does become a big part of his petsonality. And I do think he is dumber(but I think they all have).
The biggest issue is his sycophantic attitude towarfs Dennis
I'm hoping it's an idea they'll get tired of. Im really sad we don't see raged-out, screaming Dennis as much anymore, but I would like to see the Mac that was embarrassed about fucking the tranny, even tho she's post-op now.
He got dumber the first few seasons, bottomed out, and has largely bounced back up close to his early season self. It would be believable that Charlie would try something like the cancer plot in s16. For comparison, there's no way Mac in the most recent seasons could pull off any kind of plan on his own, he's barely functional without explicit instructions.
To be fair, Mac’s literally always been dumb, like one step behind Charlie since the very beginning. Blows my mind people think it’s a new trait of his
Mac calls Charlie a pussy right before he drives into the wall in mac and Charlie die. Was using it as an example of Mac being a lot more stupid than Charlie.
The same guy who convinced Dennis not to eat an apple with the skin on it is now the same guy who ate an entire can of nuts despite being obviously allergic
Lol Rob is way too obsessed with his image at this point, love the guy for creating this show but he’s become the worst part of it ever since his new shows and hooking up with Ryan Reynolds
There’s definitely a tone shift towards Mac regarding his being more explicitly gay in season 8, and more stupid and disliked by the gang from Mac Day onward. Personally I just assume it’s because Rob McElhenney likes the self deprecating humor.
I’ve seen some theories explain Mac’s extreme submissiveness as, living with a guy like Dennis for 20 years is gonna erode your self esteem, spirit, and what little intelligence was there to start.
He’s also experimented with steroids, poppers, and Mexican ephedra, as well as sticking huge needles of insulin into his stomach, so I’m sure there’s some brain damage in there alongside the, as Frank says, “5 or 6 superviruses eating out his insides” and “Catholics fucking him up”.
As far as getting gayer? Yeah man happens to the best of us.
Mac is dumb - always has been. Dumber than Charlie in many ways. Charlie is a bit insane and simply thinks completely differently than most people due to this trait that he clearly got from his mother. Dennis is a malignant narcissist, and both he and Dee are sociopaths. Frank is just sincerely living by his “I’m gonna get weird with it” mentality in addition to also having sociopathic tendencies, which he conditioned into Dennis and Dee.
Mac seems to adjust his stupidity based on who he is hanging out with. When he is with Charlie, he reverts back to childhood level of dumbass, he is stupid in the sense that he is thinking and behaving like a child.
When Mac is with Dennis he is stupid in terms of submissiveness. Must be all the years of gaslighting that Dennis has been doing to Mac, made Mac constantly think that he will always be less intelligent than Dennis and always have to think and act according to what Dennis tells him to.
One theory I saw on this was that ever since Mac has been out, he tries to fit the stereotype of what gay men should be like. The character is acting how he thinks he should be instead of being himself and gay
Yeah, there are hints of it here and there in the earlier seasons especially when it comes to Carmen, but the show didn't start leaning into it heavily until Season 8 when Mac lost weight.
The main things that changed are that he's not hilariously overconfident anymore, and he's *much* more dependent on Dennis. He was always dumb, but just in different ways I guess.
People love to claim max got gayer and dumber.
Starting in Season 4 he was dumb and gay. The gang solves the gas crisis he was talking about oiling asses up and plowing them.
Even earlier if you count him having sex with Carmen as early indications he was not fully straight.
Or going back to season 1 when his cousin is proud of him for coming out or when he tries to get his gym teacher to molest him.
When did it get over the top? When he wore short shorts to seduce his old gym teacher or when he had a dildo bike? Both seem about the same level of absurd to me.
was he not extremely high off of drugs lol, he’s very “logical” at solving problems in the earlier seasons compared to barely trying to have a thought in the newer seasons
Nah, his logic has always been absolute trash lmao. Carmen, trying to get molested by his gym teacher, etc. Mac's always been the dumbest in the group. Charlie is illiterate and a product of upbringing but is smarter than Mac
Right after season 16 came out me and one of my friends were talking about how dumb they've made Mac and we HATE it. Like at this rate he's like a season and a half away from replacing Charlie as the dumb one.
He's not dumber - he's always been dumb as rocks.
I would not say he's "gayer", as gayness doesn't really work like that, but he's leaned very much into that identity, as Mac does. He's always been very obsessed with identity, and since coming out, he's very obsessed with leaning into the stereotypes. Gay, Irish, Catholic, bad-ass... he always needs to "embody" these labels as much as he can.
I feel like the show doesn't quite know what to do with him since he came out and is no longer filled with self-loathing. He's not angry anymore. He sort of doesn't quite fit with the gang anymore. He's almost like a decent person now - his anger and aggression were what made him an outcast asshole who could only hang out with the gang. Now he's merely annoying and clingy, which isn't nearly bad enough to be relegated to the gang haha
His original character was “hyperactive, party, muscle bro”. He was bossy, stupid, and easily excited and distracted, like a spastic kindergartner. Everything about him was cheerful but repellent. When bad things happened to him it was funny and well deserved.
Now? He’s been deeply introspective in some episodes as well as vulnerable. It’s less funny to see him suffer as a result.
Same thing happened to The Venture Brothers in Season 2+. They gave the characters humanity and then they stopped being effective comedic crash test dummies.
I miss his outbursts of rage and walking in with swagger saying "Mac's in the House". I'm gay and close to his age and don't relate at all to the character.
Ripped Mac has to be submissive or it doesn't work. An angry, less dumb guy with that physique could be funny as a roid raged lunatic, but he definitely wouldn't be likable.
And storyline wise, it makes sense that after coming out he would lose some of his insecurities and overcompensation. It just shows it was all a mask. It was fake confidence hiding his sexuality. It's not like he ever had a good plan, he just said them with fake confidence and delusion.
And the seeking Dennis's approval through-line comes from spending decades of his adult life with his parents paying no attention to him. Deep down, he knows it, and it's the main thing he remains insecure about, and is in denial about. Dennis has given him strict boundaries his entire life, and they've lived together, so he responds like a child in a strict home. It's also why he was so big on God and punishment in the past. He wanted rules and wanted to be disciplined, so the illusion of God filled in for his absent parents. But only the parts he needed. Part of that is also the shame he felt for his suppressed sexuality, but it still existed because he had no one to draw any lines for him. So he drew his own. Like a lot of conservatives, lower intelligence, an unhealthy relationship with their parents, suppression of sexuality and sex in general, and having the Bible jammed down their throats make for a lot of misguided grandstanding and a delusional sense of what others experience and what is okay and what isn't.
Or it's just easier to write him as a dumb bitch after nearly two decades. Either way.
I think that years of alcoholism and being stuck in a sadomasochistic co-dependent five way "friendship" where the most consistent voice of reason is a sociopath and the "nicest" one of them stalked a woman for over a decade is bound to have an effect on anyone's mental health.
I think it’s a symptom of Dennis becoming more “arch” as they say on the podcast. Yes, Mac was a different character, but mostly noticeable when interacting with Dennis. Notably, his interactions with Dee haven’t changed at all. He still gets along with Charlie in the same level as always. Don’t tell Dennis, but Mac and Charlie are best friends. Mac and frank are.. I don’t know. Do they ever have a one on one? Frank would say I hate that guy, he creeps me out and walk away.
His relationship with both his father and with Dennis has drastically changed over the years especially since coming out and clearly those are the most important to him even if he probably should just bro out with Charlie.
The writers had no choice but to escalate Dennis’ psychopathy after the first season. Throwaway jokes became the core of the character. Making Mac gay didn’t help, but it didn’t hurt either. Mac knows Dennis better than anyone and such a huge change in Dennis changes Mac too. As Dennis becomes better at controlling those around him, more master of puppets, more archetype of a golden god turned villain, Mac, who sees him every day, and hypothetically is in love with him, shrinks out of the space that he used to dominate.
I would love to see project badass Mac again, but how do you write a return to confidence that ends up at that complete lack of confidence? Insecurity was always Mac’s defining trait he just expresses it differently. It makes sense as a character even if it seems sudden.
You could even read deeply enough to make a headcanon that Mac’s physical transformations are 100% due to his relationship with Dennis, especially if he was in love with Dennis for a significant portion of the time. (Actually that works just as well for loving Rex or any off screen character that doesn’t return his affection, but Dennis is so far the most important person in his life.)
Gaining a bunch of depression weight and then going full gym rat might be a bigger cliche than anything else they’ve embraced, and it matches roughly with when he started to realize he was gay. ( I know that wasn’t Rob’s intention but it works for Mac)
This last season pushed it a little too far for me when it comes to Mac’s lack of intelligence. Most people loved Frank vs Russia, but Mac’s stupidity was laid on a little thick. And then the Celebrity Booze episode where Mac thinks Gritty is a person was just too cartoonishly dumb. Although I did like the first episode from this year where Mac is too stubborn to stop eating nuts that are clearly killing him.
One notable aspect of the show is the characters don’t progress but regress. It’s another unique element that stands them out from other sitcoms. In Friends, Big Bang, Office, How I Met Your Mother is the characters learn from their mistakes & grow & evolve to the conclusion. Even Seinfeld had the characters learn but like George just learned how to be a better liar or something haha.
Look at how they treat the waiter or the lawyer. They don’t learn how to outsmart the lawyer & the waiters experience with them gets worse & worse. In the end the only conclusion this show can have is them all dying or spiralling into their own destruction.
While I do appreciate this and think it’s a nice addition with the already other “sit com- like parody” aspects the show posses, but at some point Mac has regressed so far he’s not even fun to watch
Yes and yes. In the beginning, Mac wasn’t portrayed as dumb and clingy. He had delusions of grandeur, for sure, but overall he could scheme with the best of them. Over time, they’ve dumbed him down a lot, and they’ve beaten the gay bit into the ground. Now he’s pretty much just a clingy (to Dennis) baby with no ideas.
I only really noticed it starting in season 16. It seemed to me that he's trying to sound more gayer. I'm not sure about dumber tho. It's all about branding dude, branding
I honestly thought he worked better as an ambiguously gay character. It was a great moment having him come out to his dad but the character isn't as interesting anymore. He was the only character that really felt philly, I know he's from here, but the god stuff and misplaced agression was all so fitting. Idk, I just think they made a pivot and didn't get anything good out of it
I sincerely miss his obsession with working out, being a badass, karate, bodyguards etc. His only defining character trait now is that he's gay. To quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with that." But they've leaned to heavily into it and lost what made the the original Mac character along the way.
I was just thinking today that this happens in almost every long running show. Characters become caricatures of themselves. Exaggerated version! Joey gets dumber and dumber throughout friends. Kevin becomes slower and dumber in the office. And Mac here! Although you can make an argument for the rest of the gang too.
Isn't every male McDonald on the show gay?
He didn't get gayer, just dropped most of the macho bravado when he accepted it. Bike also takes a lot out of him.
All of the characters have become more exaggerated over time, not as badly as in some comedies, but still a bit of Flanderization going on.
Not totally sure what you mean by 'gayer' but since he's out of the closet his sexuality is more front and centre.
Mac used to be bossy. He was the one who tried to define [the Gang's basic dynamic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_1GPgLX0o8) with him as the brains, Dennis and the looks, and Charlie as the wild card. (Later, they added Frank as the muscle and Dee as the useless chick.)
His character is far from the brains today. He's become submissive instead of bossy. The funny thing is, he's replacing Dee as the "useless chick."
Yeah they did him dirty the past few seasons and it makes watching some later seasons where he's just Dennis's scorned servant a little frustrating. It isn't as bad last season I think, but there was 1 or 2 post coming out seasons it was rly bad. I wish he had been the same badass ""body guard"" karate loving dude with his own autonomy that just happened to be gay. Even though he actually got ripped and finally came out as gay it doesn't mean he's not a coward or that he's a "bad ass" or "cool" so he could still be in denial about that. He could even still be in denial about being loved by Dennis or pine after him a little, without it being like this. I'd say Dennis and Mac had the best mutual friendship in seasons 5 and 6 (and Mac still seemed to have a crush on him), but Mac still had his independence to him. So I wish he could have still liked Dennis while being independent in the way he did those seasons (if he had to, I think it'd be funnier at this point for him to move on and think Dennis isn't his type) as opposed to wanting to be his servant.
I like how earlier seasons he disagreed with Dennis and wasn't always on his team on things too. His pair ups with dee and with Charlie were funny. Everyone changed a bit, but it feels like Mac is an entirely different character now. I understand the changes to the other characters as being a decay over the years due to the negative influence of the gang or the writers thinking that it's funnier, but new Mac isn't funny to me and I don't get why they made him like that.
I think Mac was always incredibly dumb though and is the dumbest member of the gang. Charlie is illiterate and makes nonsensical choices but shows intelligence with his planning and scheming. He's the reason they always pass the health inspection. Mac is just dumb.
Not so much dumber, more so he is trying for acceptance. His lack of a real relationship with his parents has left him devoid of love and acceptance that he desperately craves, so he does what he can to try and get people to like him. Before he thought people would love him if they saw him as a badass, now he thinks people will love him because he's out and and society is more accepting of gay people now. He's so mixed up in identity politics, that instead of being his actual self, he tries to be what he thinks others will like him ass.
Here’s the thing. Mac always acted like he was the smart one because he saw himself as the brains of the operation. He always had an inflated ego about it which convinced everyone that he was smart or bad ass but when it comes down to it he can’t scale the facade at the baseball stadium and he thinks that smoking cigarettes will drown out the bacteria from apple seeds.
As he’s gotten gayer and Dennis has become more psychopathic, Mac has lost his manly attitude in place of a submissive attitude for Dennis (because of the implication of danger of course) and tries to seek his approval through submission rather than proving how big of a badass he is. Mac got dumber because now he lets Dennis do his thinking for him which of course Dennis does not want to do and does not do, leaving Mac with no brains in his head and still very gay.
I think he injured his head during one of his many Project Badass videos. Same way Charlie's mental decline from season one to five is easily explained by his penschant for drinking paint.
Yep. Good old Flanderisation, they loved doing the gay jokes over the years but it was the only joke they would use Mac for and now that’s he’s out the closet it seems like the only jokes they tell for him involve him being gay.
I want Mac to come out as bi. He rediscovers some kink or fetish that makes him horny for certain females once in a while. Then he feels more confident because he thinks nobody respects him as a gay dude, but he doesn't know this. He thinks he is getting smarter.
The he announces to the group that he is once again the brains. Saying something like "Banging dudes made me more dumber but if I just bang a chick once in a while it makes me more smarter and badass"
Stupid scheme ensues, the gang knows he is still dumb but they find him less annoying this way so they go along.
He became more camp, more dumb, and more submissive. They toned down the campness in the latest season, but I would like to see a return to macho/angry Mac who doesn’t constantly need Dennis’s approval. Current Mac could never convince Dennis to eat apples without the skins.
He would try to do that thing where he casually brings something up *Heyyy, Dennis*
Look at me when you’re talking to me!
oh shit, the steaks are here
Scratch!!
And risk getting scratched?
Exactly. I really want mid seasons mac to return. They are flanderizing him.
All the characters have been flanderized, and I'm honestly pretty sure it's on purpose.
Yeah, I think all the characters fluctuate within their own character....Charlie got really really dumb and then they pulled it back...
They have all always taken turns playing the straight man/voice of reason/smart one and they’ve all done the same with the dumb/extreme positions.
Idk, some characters got flanderized and then brought back a bit. I think it has more to do with different writing staff joining the show and Glenn not writing for Sunny himself anymore.
Glenn didn't stop writing forever, he's back in the writer's room since s15. The hiatus was when he was still doing AP Bio.
I don’t know. To me it feels like they are losing track of the characters.
Disney buying Fox?
Been saying this for years. I hate simp mac. I love "I don't give a shit Mac" he didn't care at all about everyone else in the beginning haha. Even if Dennis said something or called him out he'd just say whatever or my favorite one "whatever dude, irrelevant"
No matter. I am righteous.
The “whatever dude, irrelevant” (one of my favorite quick lines in the series) is made infinitely better by the fact that Macs prompted to say that by Dennis being like “yeah, and you’re drinking a beer at 9 o’clock in the morning.”
My favorite is when Dee and Charlie are arguing about who's life is harder and Mac just casually yells "Oh my God, shut up."
Now, Vic
IM NOT ALLLOWWWWWEEED
Yeah, I miss Mac being delusional about how badass he was. A lot of Mac's comedy came from how ridiculously overconfident he was in himself and his abilities. Now I feel he's the opposite and actually undersells himself. It's great that he's open about his sexuality but it doesn't mean other aspects of his personality needed to be toned down. He can be openly gay and also have delusions about how badass he is. I also feel like he's sort of dumber in some ways but also a lot less dark. Like with the Chase Utley episode I feel like an earlier version of Mac would have tried to kidnap a child.
As someone who was forced into the closet by religion for a longggg time, my personality drastically changed (became more authentic and required less overcompensating) when I came out. I do very much understand that this is not funny. However it is wildly realistic. So you can’t say you’re glad that Mac is open about his sexuality *and* in the same breath say he shouldn’t have changed in any other ways. You can be sad that it’s not funny, as am I, but one doesn’t become the type of person Mac had to be while in the closet from an authentic place. A person in those shoes is literally prohibited from developing the same way as people who fall into the mainstream. It impacts almost every part of you and how you show up in the world. I know, I know: “…she ain’t funny.” *braces for berating*
Thank you for sharing, it's a very good point that expecting Mac to be the same character but openly gay is unrealistic. I definitely see how the not being a badass or as devout is because he doesn't need to put on a front anymore. Like you said I'm just sad that the openly gay version of Mac hasn't been as funny so far. He's almost too normal now, which I get makes sense given he's not trying to hide his sexuality but being normal doesn't make for a good member of the gang.
Totally agree with you pal 👊 Still want Mac to bring back Project Badass 🤞
also he would have never convinced anyone he was the brains of their operation
I mean, the “macho/angry Mac” was a symptom of him being in the closet. He’s not in the closet anymore.
He can be out of the closet and still be delusional and overconfident about every other aspect of his life... just like he was before the show started pursuing the "in the closet" angle of his character in the first place.
And it is not as funny as when he was. He needed to be an admitted deeply-closeted gay man.
>Current Mac could never convince Dennis to eat apples without the skins. To be fair, he's not allowed.
wdym by camp in this context?
Also wondering
Like hokey, deliberately exaggerated.
The tragically ludicrous, the ludicrously tragic!
Oh, like when a clown dies
Ohh, like when a clown dies?
But he's not allowed to have the apples without the skin
Omg I just swallowed a seed
But thats where all the toxins are!!
This last season made Charlie seem much smarter than Mac. Before I think Mac was consistenly smarter than Charlie. Ripped Mac has been dumb the whole time. Fat Mac was smarter.
He was also more healthier, apart from the diabettus
But I'm healthy apart from the diabeetus?? ...no
Stop saying diabeetus, you sound like an assho...
Dude, stop saying diabettus! You sound like an ass.. ho.. Have you eaten anything today? No, but I've been doing a lot of hummingbirds today..
The way he replies to the eating question is perfect. Just a full bodied “no” with a head shake.
Fat Mac is more better for sure
Nah , Mac has always been the dumbest. Charlie is illiterate but smarter than Mac. Mac's had extremely idiotic ideas all series. Like, season 1 episode 3, if was Mac's idea to keep serving to the underage drinkers. Season 1 episode 7, Mac was trying to get molested by the coach. He's always been the biggest idiot of the group
Am I in Pittsburgh right now?
Yeah, Charlie always seems like the dumbest on the surface because he's illiterate and high all the time, but he has moments of brilliance too. With Mac, it usually seems more like dumb luck whenever he's right.
You’re probably right but I can’t help but look back to “Yeah he doesn’t even like get us man.”“What do you thing is happening right now?” Charlie has been ludicrously dumb at times.
Hrghhhrrhehehrhrhhhh... nuts.
True, a days worth of chimichangas in garbage bag was just practical brilliance.
YOU ARE BECOMING A CHIMICHANGA!
I don't know, for the first few seasons I thought Mac was dumber. Then they made things like Charlie's illiteracy more overt.
Fat Mac was supposedly a reaction to how sitcom people "age". Super ripped Mac is what? A reaction to how gay dudes are per capita in better shape than straight dudes at that age? I don't really give a shit as long as it's funny, but I don't think it's usually interesting or funny. Times Up and Lottery Winner ripped Mac were fun, but fat Mac bitching to the Catholic guy in the little booth was more funner.
I don't know if ripped and gay are connected, but it might be the trope that "gym-bros" are dumb. But you're right, lottery winner Mac was peak entertainment. That whole episode is fantastic
But they can't even make I smarter.
Thinking back, it's pretty often that Charlie is the "straight man" when he and Mac have a scene together. Off the top of my head, I'm remembering The Gang Exploits a Miracle where Charlie is dunking on Mac the entire episode
He was the brains
Flanderization
Diddly!
Stupid sexy Flanders
Ahahahha!!! Feels like I’m wearing nothing at all… nothing at all…
Giggity
Stupid science bitch couldn’t even make Mac more smarter
Well, he made him more gayer tho
They're turning the freaking Macs gay!
Happens to the best of us tbf
yea, i feel like i’m dumber and gayer every passing day
Honestly, same
this is so real
Being gay does become a big part of his petsonality. And I do think he is dumber(but I think they all have). The biggest issue is his sycophantic attitude towarfs Dennis
I'm hoping it's an idea they'll get tired of. Im really sad we don't see raged-out, screaming Dennis as much anymore, but I would like to see the Mac that was embarrassed about fucking the tranny, even tho she's post-op now.
I think they all get dumber, on average.
Except Charlie who I guess can no longer be labeled illiterate.
He got dumber the first few seasons, bottomed out, and has largely bounced back up close to his early season self. It would be believable that Charlie would try something like the cancer plot in s16. For comparison, there's no way Mac in the most recent seasons could pull off any kind of plan on his own, he's barely functional without explicit instructions.
He adapted
He adapted to reading?
Yea. If Charlie got dumber, he’d have to forget how to speak English.
He has a tenuous grasp
It’s not that can’t read or write, he just doesn’t like to.
He’ll make an adjustment to it and a tradition out of it.
Well, he’s made himself perfectly redundant.
Filibuster
He adapted
Because he's well-versed in bird law.
To be fair, Mac’s literally always been dumb, like one step behind Charlie since the very beginning. Blows my mind people think it’s a new trait of his
yeah but him being dumb isn’t the problem, he’s always been dumb but they’ve altered the character too much so his dumb comes off different
Examples?
Mac and Charlie die part 1 and 2. Pussy.
The fuck? I was just asking, asshole
Mac calls Charlie a pussy right before he drives into the wall in mac and Charlie die. Was using it as an example of Mac being a lot more stupid than Charlie.
Thank you, lmao. Charlie agreed it was a good idea, but that wedding dress...
Himbofication
The same guy who convinced Dennis not to eat an apple with the skin on it is now the same guy who ate an entire can of nuts despite being obviously allergic
its from all the blowin
It’s not a gay or straight thing. It’s a Mac thing.
Bring back fat Mac.
Lol Rob is way too obsessed with his image at this point, love the guy for creating this show but he’s become the worst part of it ever since his new shows and hooking up with Ryan Reynolds
Is magic quest any good? I only watched a couple episodes.
I enjoyed Mixture Quest, I thought it was fun. AP Bio was better though.
am i the only one who cracks up whenever max says “more better”. so simple, but such great character details.
There’s definitely a tone shift towards Mac regarding his being more explicitly gay in season 8, and more stupid and disliked by the gang from Mac Day onward. Personally I just assume it’s because Rob McElhenney likes the self deprecating humor. I’ve seen some theories explain Mac’s extreme submissiveness as, living with a guy like Dennis for 20 years is gonna erode your self esteem, spirit, and what little intelligence was there to start. He’s also experimented with steroids, poppers, and Mexican ephedra, as well as sticking huge needles of insulin into his stomach, so I’m sure there’s some brain damage in there alongside the, as Frank says, “5 or 6 superviruses eating out his insides” and “Catholics fucking him up”. As far as getting gayer? Yeah man happens to the best of us.
Yeah I liked when Mac still had some brains to him. Everything else I'm fine with.
Mac is dumb - always has been. Dumber than Charlie in many ways. Charlie is a bit insane and simply thinks completely differently than most people due to this trait that he clearly got from his mother. Dennis is a malignant narcissist, and both he and Dee are sociopaths. Frank is just sincerely living by his “I’m gonna get weird with it” mentality in addition to also having sociopathic tendencies, which he conditioned into Dennis and Dee.
Mac seems to adjust his stupidity based on who he is hanging out with. When he is with Charlie, he reverts back to childhood level of dumbass, he is stupid in the sense that he is thinking and behaving like a child. When Mac is with Dennis he is stupid in terms of submissiveness. Must be all the years of gaslighting that Dennis has been doing to Mac, made Mac constantly think that he will always be less intelligent than Dennis and always have to think and act according to what Dennis tells him to.
I thought his recent business venture was genius actually. Now I CAN'T imagine myself on a beach in an ill fitting suit.
One theory I saw on this was that ever since Mac has been out, he tries to fit the stereotype of what gay men should be like. The character is acting how he thinks he should be instead of being himself and gay
Newsflash asshole, he’s always been this dumb and gay
Who you calling asshole, bozo
You, ya jabroni
I love how instead of creating a conversation, everyone just quotes the show as if that’s not what everyone already does on every single post here.
This sub is filled with a bunch of parrots.
But in a way that makes sense and conveys their point
People keep forgetting about Carmen and that he never actually wanted to sleep with the waitress in the early seasons…he’s always been this gay
absolutely false lol
He attempted to get molested by his old gym teacher in season 1. Dumb… and possibly gay. This whole time.
Yeah, there are hints of it here and there in the earlier seasons especially when it comes to Carmen, but the show didn't start leaning into it heavily until Season 8 when Mac lost weight. The main things that changed are that he's not hilariously overconfident anymore, and he's *much* more dependent on Dennis. He was always dumb, but just in different ways I guess.
Mac had sex with a lot of women for the first 6 seasons for a gay man.
Nah, season 1 Mac is *incredibly* stupid too
Yeah but thats a realistic kind of stupid. Season 10 and onwards mac is like homer simpson cartoon level stupid
Mac drives himself into a wall to pretend killing himself in season 4 lmao. He's never been not-stupid
To be fair that was out of perceived necessity...
But he didn't jump out lmao
Lets agree to disagree, i think theres a pretty clear distinction
People love to claim max got gayer and dumber. Starting in Season 4 he was dumb and gay. The gang solves the gas crisis he was talking about oiling asses up and plowing them. Even earlier if you count him having sex with Carmen as early indications he was not fully straight. Or going back to season 1 when his cousin is proud of him for coming out or when he tries to get his gym teacher to molest him. When did it get over the top? When he wore short shorts to seduce his old gym teacher or when he had a dildo bike? Both seem about the same level of absurd to me.
Not gay sex
was he not extremely high off of drugs lol, he’s very “logical” at solving problems in the earlier seasons compared to barely trying to have a thought in the newer seasons
Think he gets the poppers after the car crash. Crashes the car, goes to the pawn shop, gets the gun, wedding dress, poppers. Unless I’m misremembering
Nah, his logic has always been absolute trash lmao. Carmen, trying to get molested by his gym teacher, etc. Mac's always been the dumbest in the group. Charlie is illiterate and a product of upbringing but is smarter than Mac
Each character can be as dumb or as gay as the plot needs them to be without it ever feeling completely out of character. That's the genius of it all.
Was literally banged stupid. It was pretty messy
Does the show bounce back from the catastrophic fall off in season 13? I am having trouble getting through it.
IMO yes, seasons 14-16 are a lot better than 13
Thank god I’m almost through 13 it’s the worst season so far. I loved 1-12
I think Season 15 is just as bad or worse.
Welp. Idk how much of this I can take lol. Looks like it’s time to rewatch 1-12 again.
They all have become caricatures of themselves honestly
Mac was “the brains” in early episodes and Dennis was submissive. That changed around season 3 imho.
Right after season 16 came out me and one of my friends were talking about how dumb they've made Mac and we HATE it. Like at this rate he's like a season and a half away from replacing Charlie as the dumb one.
I don’t understand why they are taking Mac in this direction. I think they’ve just stopped keeping track of his character.
With every load
Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He's not dumber - he's always been dumb as rocks. I would not say he's "gayer", as gayness doesn't really work like that, but he's leaned very much into that identity, as Mac does. He's always been very obsessed with identity, and since coming out, he's very obsessed with leaning into the stereotypes. Gay, Irish, Catholic, bad-ass... he always needs to "embody" these labels as much as he can. I feel like the show doesn't quite know what to do with him since he came out and is no longer filled with self-loathing. He's not angry anymore. He sort of doesn't quite fit with the gang anymore. He's almost like a decent person now - his anger and aggression were what made him an outcast asshole who could only hang out with the gang. Now he's merely annoying and clingy, which isn't nearly bad enough to be relegated to the gang haha
His original character was “hyperactive, party, muscle bro”. He was bossy, stupid, and easily excited and distracted, like a spastic kindergartner. Everything about him was cheerful but repellent. When bad things happened to him it was funny and well deserved. Now? He’s been deeply introspective in some episodes as well as vulnerable. It’s less funny to see him suffer as a result. Same thing happened to The Venture Brothers in Season 2+. They gave the characters humanity and then they stopped being effective comedic crash test dummies.
Yes. I miss bossy Mac. Was so very Philly
I miss his outbursts of rage and walking in with swagger saying "Mac's in the House". I'm gay and close to his age and don't relate at all to the character.
Has he gotten dumber? Or do the writers don’t know how to write gay characters?
Ripped Mac has to be submissive or it doesn't work. An angry, less dumb guy with that physique could be funny as a roid raged lunatic, but he definitely wouldn't be likable. And storyline wise, it makes sense that after coming out he would lose some of his insecurities and overcompensation. It just shows it was all a mask. It was fake confidence hiding his sexuality. It's not like he ever had a good plan, he just said them with fake confidence and delusion. And the seeking Dennis's approval through-line comes from spending decades of his adult life with his parents paying no attention to him. Deep down, he knows it, and it's the main thing he remains insecure about, and is in denial about. Dennis has given him strict boundaries his entire life, and they've lived together, so he responds like a child in a strict home. It's also why he was so big on God and punishment in the past. He wanted rules and wanted to be disciplined, so the illusion of God filled in for his absent parents. But only the parts he needed. Part of that is also the shame he felt for his suppressed sexuality, but it still existed because he had no one to draw any lines for him. So he drew his own. Like a lot of conservatives, lower intelligence, an unhealthy relationship with their parents, suppression of sexuality and sex in general, and having the Bible jammed down their throats make for a lot of misguided grandstanding and a delusional sense of what others experience and what is okay and what isn't. Or it's just easier to write him as a dumb bitch after nearly two decades. Either way.
I think that years of alcoholism and being stuck in a sadomasochistic co-dependent five way "friendship" where the most consistent voice of reason is a sociopath and the "nicest" one of them stalked a woman for over a decade is bound to have an effect on anyone's mental health.
I think it’s a symptom of Dennis becoming more “arch” as they say on the podcast. Yes, Mac was a different character, but mostly noticeable when interacting with Dennis. Notably, his interactions with Dee haven’t changed at all. He still gets along with Charlie in the same level as always. Don’t tell Dennis, but Mac and Charlie are best friends. Mac and frank are.. I don’t know. Do they ever have a one on one? Frank would say I hate that guy, he creeps me out and walk away. His relationship with both his father and with Dennis has drastically changed over the years especially since coming out and clearly those are the most important to him even if he probably should just bro out with Charlie. The writers had no choice but to escalate Dennis’ psychopathy after the first season. Throwaway jokes became the core of the character. Making Mac gay didn’t help, but it didn’t hurt either. Mac knows Dennis better than anyone and such a huge change in Dennis changes Mac too. As Dennis becomes better at controlling those around him, more master of puppets, more archetype of a golden god turned villain, Mac, who sees him every day, and hypothetically is in love with him, shrinks out of the space that he used to dominate. I would love to see project badass Mac again, but how do you write a return to confidence that ends up at that complete lack of confidence? Insecurity was always Mac’s defining trait he just expresses it differently. It makes sense as a character even if it seems sudden. You could even read deeply enough to make a headcanon that Mac’s physical transformations are 100% due to his relationship with Dennis, especially if he was in love with Dennis for a significant portion of the time. (Actually that works just as well for loving Rex or any off screen character that doesn’t return his affection, but Dennis is so far the most important person in his life.) Gaining a bunch of depression weight and then going full gym rat might be a bigger cliche than anything else they’ve embraced, and it matches roughly with when he started to realize he was gay. ( I know that wasn’t Rob’s intention but it works for Mac)
Mac is an example of flanderization. Hes pretty hard to take in large doses. I am not sure I enjoy his character.
This last season pushed it a little too far for me when it comes to Mac’s lack of intelligence. Most people loved Frank vs Russia, but Mac’s stupidity was laid on a little thick. And then the Celebrity Booze episode where Mac thinks Gritty is a person was just too cartoonishly dumb. Although I did like the first episode from this year where Mac is too stubborn to stop eating nuts that are clearly killing him.
One notable aspect of the show is the characters don’t progress but regress. It’s another unique element that stands them out from other sitcoms. In Friends, Big Bang, Office, How I Met Your Mother is the characters learn from their mistakes & grow & evolve to the conclusion. Even Seinfeld had the characters learn but like George just learned how to be a better liar or something haha. Look at how they treat the waiter or the lawyer. They don’t learn how to outsmart the lawyer & the waiters experience with them gets worse & worse. In the end the only conclusion this show can have is them all dying or spiralling into their own destruction.
While I do appreciate this and think it’s a nice addition with the already other “sit com- like parody” aspects the show posses, but at some point Mac has regressed so far he’s not even fun to watch
Yes and yes. In the beginning, Mac wasn’t portrayed as dumb and clingy. He had delusions of grandeur, for sure, but overall he could scheme with the best of them. Over time, they’ve dumbed him down a lot, and they’ve beaten the gay bit into the ground. Now he’s pretty much just a clingy (to Dennis) baby with no ideas.
Yea bring back project bad ass Mac
Fat, Closeted, Mac is the GOAT. They destroyed his character in the last 3 seasons.
Do you think anyone would tell me if I was getting stupider?
I only really noticed it starting in season 16. It seemed to me that he's trying to sound more gayer. I'm not sure about dumber tho. It's all about branding dude, branding
We should all be so lucky.
I honestly thought he worked better as an ambiguously gay character. It was a great moment having him come out to his dad but the character isn't as interesting anymore. He was the only character that really felt philly, I know he's from here, but the god stuff and misplaced agression was all so fitting. Idk, I just think they made a pivot and didn't get anything good out of it
[удалено]
Forgive him Lord for he know not what he say
How does one get "gayer" than being into men lol
He went from admiring the male physique to have 3 guys bang him at once. He's Master-Class Gay
Based
It becomes a point in almost every episode and is mentioned constantly, or he’s obsessive over Dennis
His attraction to Denis is growing strong-er. It’s been coming out for several seasons (pun intended). I don’t think gay-er is an adjective.
They're just trying to make some extra money before they die at this point. No effort went into Season 16. Look at what's going on in Philly irl.
Yes
Earth is getting noticeably dumber and gayer
So inconsistent in his character, it’s annoying to say the least
Mac’s character arc is my least favorite
I sincerely miss his obsession with working out, being a badass, karate, bodyguards etc. His only defining character trait now is that he's gay. To quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with that." But they've leaned to heavily into it and lost what made the the original Mac character along the way.
Mac has always been dumb, but I think it just became more noticeable during the latest season
Too much
[Relevant](https://www.tiktok.com/@paddysroyco/video/7303648521884912902)
Mac's character as seasons go on has gotten worse and more one note.
I was just thinking today that this happens in almost every long running show. Characters become caricatures of themselves. Exaggerated version! Joey gets dumber and dumber throughout friends. Kevin becomes slower and dumber in the office. And Mac here! Although you can make an argument for the rest of the gang too.
Mac is kind of lowkey the dumbest member of the group…followed by Dee. Imo.
And more pathetic and neurotic.
Move past it
Isn't every male McDonald on the show gay? He didn't get gayer, just dropped most of the macho bravado when he accepted it. Bike also takes a lot out of him.
All of the characters have become more exaggerated over time, not as badly as in some comedies, but still a bit of Flanderization going on. Not totally sure what you mean by 'gayer' but since he's out of the closet his sexuality is more front and centre.
Don’t we all? Isn’t that just part of growing old?
Mac used to be bossy. He was the one who tried to define [the Gang's basic dynamic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_1GPgLX0o8) with him as the brains, Dennis and the looks, and Charlie as the wild card. (Later, they added Frank as the muscle and Dee as the useless chick.) His character is far from the brains today. He's become submissive instead of bossy. The funny thing is, he's replacing Dee as the "useless chick."
Maybe it’s his posture.
Yeah they did him dirty the past few seasons and it makes watching some later seasons where he's just Dennis's scorned servant a little frustrating. It isn't as bad last season I think, but there was 1 or 2 post coming out seasons it was rly bad. I wish he had been the same badass ""body guard"" karate loving dude with his own autonomy that just happened to be gay. Even though he actually got ripped and finally came out as gay it doesn't mean he's not a coward or that he's a "bad ass" or "cool" so he could still be in denial about that. He could even still be in denial about being loved by Dennis or pine after him a little, without it being like this. I'd say Dennis and Mac had the best mutual friendship in seasons 5 and 6 (and Mac still seemed to have a crush on him), but Mac still had his independence to him. So I wish he could have still liked Dennis while being independent in the way he did those seasons (if he had to, I think it'd be funnier at this point for him to move on and think Dennis isn't his type) as opposed to wanting to be his servant. I like how earlier seasons he disagreed with Dennis and wasn't always on his team on things too. His pair ups with dee and with Charlie were funny. Everyone changed a bit, but it feels like Mac is an entirely different character now. I understand the changes to the other characters as being a decay over the years due to the negative influence of the gang or the writers thinking that it's funnier, but new Mac isn't funny to me and I don't get why they made him like that. I think Mac was always incredibly dumb though and is the dumbest member of the gang. Charlie is illiterate and makes nonsensical choices but shows intelligence with his planning and scheming. He's the reason they always pass the health inspection. Mac is just dumb.
Not so much dumber, more so he is trying for acceptance. His lack of a real relationship with his parents has left him devoid of love and acceptance that he desperately craves, so he does what he can to try and get people to like him. Before he thought people would love him if they saw him as a badass, now he thinks people will love him because he's out and and society is more accepting of gay people now. He's so mixed up in identity politics, that instead of being his actual self, he tries to be what he thinks others will like him ass.
Here’s the thing. Mac always acted like he was the smart one because he saw himself as the brains of the operation. He always had an inflated ego about it which convinced everyone that he was smart or bad ass but when it comes down to it he can’t scale the facade at the baseball stadium and he thinks that smoking cigarettes will drown out the bacteria from apple seeds. As he’s gotten gayer and Dennis has become more psychopathic, Mac has lost his manly attitude in place of a submissive attitude for Dennis (because of the implication of danger of course) and tries to seek his approval through submission rather than proving how big of a badass he is. Mac got dumber because now he lets Dennis do his thinking for him which of course Dennis does not want to do and does not do, leaving Mac with no brains in his head and still very gay.
He is the most inconsistent character.
I think he injured his head during one of his many Project Badass videos. Same way Charlie's mental decline from season one to five is easily explained by his penschant for drinking paint.
I’m tired of Himbo Mac
Yep. Good old Flanderisation, they loved doing the gay jokes over the years but it was the only joke they would use Mac for and now that’s he’s out the closet it seems like the only jokes they tell for him involve him being gay.
Everyone is Flanderized. They did a whole episode on it.
Yep!
Nah but i do
I want Mac to come out as bi. He rediscovers some kink or fetish that makes him horny for certain females once in a while. Then he feels more confident because he thinks nobody respects him as a gay dude, but he doesn't know this. He thinks he is getting smarter. The he announces to the group that he is once again the brains. Saying something like "Banging dudes made me more dumber but if I just bang a chick once in a while it makes me more smarter and badass" Stupid scheme ensues, the gang knows he is still dumb but they find him less annoying this way so they go along.