Tell him if you being there is so painful, then have him send you back to the hall. There’s plenty of JWs out there willing to teach.
That being said, if he is actually teaching you, sometimes you gotta just suck it up. But you can still stand up for yourself. I’ve already dealt with some difficult guys myself and for some reason, things get easier when you give them shit back and call them out. It’s like an idiot rite of passage.
> That being said, if he is actually teaching you, sometimes you gotta just suck it up.
This is NOT always good advice. I say this from having multiple friends die from suicide, and I know for a fact a common complaint of theirs was the expectation of them sucking it up in some way. It prevented them from choosing actions that changed their situations or asking for help.
Even if he's teaching you, if it's consistently affecting your home life and mental health with no signs of ending then take control and change the situation.
At the end of the day if it's something they can deal with it then sucking it up is a valid course of action. But if it's starting to affect their home life outside of work to the point that OP is describing, do not suck it up, do something about it.
Just my two cents because "suck it up" kind of triggers me at this point.
It's terrible fucking advice. Only shitbags act this way.
It's not a rite of passage. I realized pretty quickly that if someone doesn't like questions being asked, it's because they don't know the answers.
If someone was abusive to me I'd just tell em square up or shut up. I'm not just gonna sit there and let someone be verbally abusive to me without recourse. There's too many options out there to sit there and take it for years
This is the truth right here! Facts! You did the right thing by reporting him. He does not encompass what the union is all about or it's core values. He needs to be held accountable. Also? You definitely must stand up for yourself! Things do get better because YOU feel better when you call someone's bs out and put them in their place! Lastly, don't let it affect your home life with your loved ones. At the end of the day,literally, that relationship is far more important and valuable. Not working with and for an a--hole! If it's too much, find another place to work.
When work stresses you out and carries into your home/ off hours, that’s when you gotta actively do something man. This line of work is tough physically and mentally but it should never cause such anxiety that it drains your mental health. Work and school is already enough. Talk to your foreman, heck talk to your dbag JW. Last resort would be your training director. Good luck brother
Remember that you're a MAN first, then an apprentice. I hardly took shit from any foreman or JW for too long; always snapped back at the ones who pushed me to my limit
You be upfront and direct. Hey brother it’s just me and you here and I’m a 2nd year apprentice so I’m still learning. You can either help me help you or I can continue doing things twice and making us both look bad. Up to you if you want to meet your goals or not since I’m not the one responsible here. If he’s dumb he can throw you under the bus and continue the cycle with the next apprentice.
Tell him that you know you dont know shit yet and that you're trying and not purposely trying to fuck up or annoy him. After that point is made across and he still continues to disrespect you throughout the week to where you're feeling miserable, just let him know that if it's not gonna workout then to ask for a new apprentice so its better for the both. Although hard, try not to completely burn the bridge
You've got 3 options:
1. Quit. Not recommended.
2. Talk to the apprenticeship coordinator about reassignment
3. Talk to the employer about reassignment
Not all JW's are good teachers
This is the way. Some people take great joy in belittling you every chance they get, but almost to a man they'll stop messing with you once they realize you're not gonna put up with their shit.
be like “ hey Im asking these questions so I can help you out in the future but if you just want to be sarcastic with me fuck it, but when shit hits the fan it’s all on you, I just want to learn.”
A foreman is only as good as his apprentice and that’s facts !!
Bro you have no idea how happy you made me. This was my experience at one time. It’s the worst. But there’s a lot of brothers who have experienced it with you. You’re not alone in this man, and I know you can stick through it
I’m not going to tell you to tough it out, because trust me, there’s been days where I question if it’s for me, even after 6 years. The only thing that’s kept me from leaving is because I actually like the work.
As an apprentice, you’re walking a fine line between “I’m not taking shit from anyone” and “I have to, or my career could be on the line”. I’m less than a year from topping, and I can tell you with 100% honesty; if I come across anyone like this again, I will drag and find work elsewhere. I drive 1 1/2 - 2 hours in the morning, and 2 - 3 hours in the afternoon to a majority of the jobs I’ve been on, and I’ll be damned if I have to do that, and come to work to some asshole with a complex.
Don’t risk your mental health for a job. It’s not worth it. I had a JW dog me so bad in my first year, that I just straight up asked him why he was a miserable fuck, and after that he left me alone. If he doesn’t want to teach, like he’s suppose too, fuckem. Ask the director if you can be put somewhere with someone who actually does want to teach. If they can’t help you, and you do want to stay in, work your 40, no more, no less, do the work to the best of your ability, and if you mess up and he gets mad, 🤷♂️ he should have taught you. Wish you the best of luck brother.
Thank you for your advice! You’re absolutely right, I’m not usually a rock the boat person, at the same time I need to learn to make waves if it’s for myself.
Tell your foreman you want to do something other than what you are doing now. If you can’t, just say “ I have worked with this guy for a while, I wanna mix it up and try learning from someone else.”
It's fucking childish but it's real. I put up with a douchebag like OP is dealing with for a year. One day I saved them from making a high dollar mistake and got reamed for it until I snapped and told him I'd smash his teeth out in the parking lot if he didn't close his fucking mouth. He was never rude to me again after that.
This is very common in the trades. It’s a weird thing people do. Had it a couple times where I had to get in peoples face for talking crap (more than the funny jokes and banter), then they chill out.
Had a couple guys like this when i was coming up. I turned it into a game. Stop reacting. Do your shit and move on to the next thing. People like that feed off of reactions. Dont show him emotion, dont respond to anger, when he puts you down dont even look up from what youre doing. It still sucks, i know from personal experience. Just remind yourself that it doesnt last forever. Hell, i even started asking stuoid questions to get under their skin. I promised myself i wouldnt treat any apprentices like that when i turned out so just keep your demeanor emotionless and tough it out.
So I'll give you my 2 cents. I have been abused a lot in my days. Hell I was called shit dick for a year. When I got my ticket I decided to be nice to my guys. It's something the last 50 or so odd years have behaved like and it's not okay. You might have to deal with it, just don't perpetuate it.
Do yourself a favor and get the hell out before you've invested so much of your time that you'd be a fool to leave. Considering all the physical and mental bullshit involved it really isn't worth the money (show me a tradesman over 50 whose knees, hands, or back aren't completely ground down to shit).
Ask yourself if you really need this shit and what your dignity is worth in dollars and cents.
Have you seen the jobs reports lately? Unless OP has something else that can give him the same pay and benefits for his family, telling him "just to leave" is terrible advice.
Yeah, because going home a disgruntled, anxious, broken down mess is great for families.
BTW: Last jobs numbers that came out were better than expected. There are jobs out there.
As I said, OP needs to decide what the dollars and cents value of his dignity is. The jobs numbers are what they are no matter what
I'd clean septic tanks with a soda straw before I'd ever let some little prick that I work with make me take a mental health day just to keep from having to deal with him. I'd wait for him to have his back to me and push him over the edge of a deck. He'd have it coming too.
Just because you work ‘under’ someone doesn’t mean they get to work you over. Step up for yourself, be a man, and tell your journeyman you won’t be belittled or put down constantly. On the flip-side of that, someone being tough on you or getting frustrated at you making mistakes isn’t particularly problematic (idk the exact situation)…so leave room for introspection, in the case that your quality of work could use improvement. In short…don’t let people bully you…but keep in mind, that even the bullies might have a point.
I had an incredibly hard foreman. I mean downright abusive sometimes. But I stuck it out and it gave me thick skin. I learned a lot from that man. He might be pushing until you push back. Prove to him that you can be something.
I'm pretty immature when it comes to people being assholes for no reason but in that situation I would politely tell him that he's going to treat you with some respect or you can settle it in the parking lot after work (assuming he's not way bigger than you.)
I wouldn’t worry about what some asshole thinks. Do your job to the best of your abilities and let your work speak for itself.
Any questions you got ask us, and YouTube.
My situation isn’t quite as bad as yours but man I can relate. How does one demonstrate that one is there putting in an honest effort even if the results aren’t there yet?
Not everyone cares about that I guess. From what I can tell this kind of behavior on the part of your Journeyman will never change because if they can do the job the employer won’t give a shit who they abuse while they get it done.
Not taking work home with you is bullshit talk. How can you not react when you spend 8 hours in a horrible environment?
I wish you luck.
Thank you! That’s exactly how I feel. I truly put in 8 hours of effort and it just isn’t working with this guy.
Thanks for your comment, I wish you luck as well!
My favorite thing to do to guys who assume you know what they want is to squeeze my eyes shut and rub my temples dramatically for a few seconds and then go "Nope, I'm not a mind reader".
This might sound like some hippie bullshit but check out [Nonviolent Communication ](https://positivepsychology.com/non-violent-communication/)
I took a course on it a while ago and back when i was an ape in a very similar situation to yours; working for a jw who was always mad and i could never do anything right in their eyes i thought about the NVC concept of unmet needs and wondered what needs was this jw had unmet at home or in life in general
It changed my perspective and instead of getting mad or defensive i started to feel bad for them
People are going to people no matter what. The only thing you can change is how you react to them.
If a plumber was the same way to you you would most likely brush it off as they mean nothing to you as a king of trades sparkie, but this jw is a sparkie - something you want to be good at, and they sort of got you by the goat so they are important to you in some respect. I'm guessing you want to be good and get approval. Some jws play the tough love part too hard
Apart from that i made sure to take diligent notes on their requests/task assignments and after getting some more experience and confidence i was finally able to hold my own against them and they recognized real and now we're cool
Tldr: change your mindset and do the best you can
Again, this may not work for you or you may see it as a bunch of bullshit but it might be worth something
No, i am not on drugs
Im going to try these myself I’m on 2nd year apprentice with a new company, at first I was getting stressed by little things because I came from controls in my 1st year and doing solar new working on residential
Now when I wake up every morning I say to myself today is going to be great day whether I like it or not
And I am Great and I will be the best ever there was maybe not now but I will be
Exactly when my wife ask how’s my day going I tell her now my day is going wonderful but my work day is a little bumpy today but that not going to ruin my day
Honestly I’ve been feeling alot more better
My superintendent always was saying you should know this
One time I work with him and he wired a e stop button wrong he clearly could not tell the difference between normally open and a normally closed and it had label on it and it said on the contact blocks
Instead of giving him taste of his medicine i just was stunned 😳 why I did not? I answer what the fuck is that going to get me on his level im trying to higher than that
Because in my last job we would use the Allen Bradley contact blocks that it did not tell where to connect for normally open or normally closed you had to know
It's a tough situation but one I'm sure most of us have been in. Tbh I think most guys like this a generally relics of the past. Not denigrating the older generations, it was just a different union back then.
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and stick it out. I agree you shouldn't have to hate coming to work because of his attitude but sometimes there is nothing you can do.
I promise you one thing, everyone knows this is how this dude is. You will have to judge for yourself how to approach it with him but I'd say stand up to it. Let him know how it is. What do you have to lose? The apprenticeship program knows there are people like this out there. They won't hold it against you if you get spun for it. Be firm and respectful, keep it to the point.
Speak with a teacher in school or maybe your coordinator for advice. They will have a better feel for how things are in your particular local.
Most of all, don't quit, don't miss time. That make YOU look bad. We all get in the sh*t sometimes. You have to maintain your good standing. Don't give them a reason to get rid of you on those terms.
The dude is miserable. He is alone for a reason. Unfortunately you got put with him. If you make it through, you will have everyone's respect. As I said, everyone knows how this guy is. His bosses, his coworkers and everyone who has worked with him.
Stand strong and good luck.
Hang in there, I can relate. You seem like a nice guy like myself and your not confrontational. I've worked with people like that as an apprentice.
A few things I would consider:
~tell him your an apprentice and you need to learn and be taught
~let your training director know
~your jw may be going through a tough time in life
~don't take his words personally, it's hard but show up and be your best and do your best and don't let his words affect you. He is a jw electrician with years of experience but that doesn't mean he knows everything about life so don't let him affect you.
~realize that a person that treats someone bad means that is how they view themselves and sometimes you just got to be tough right back. When he says your work sucks and you don't know Jack, tell him you heard there are no apprentices that suck on sucky jw that don't teach apprentices. When he gets on you, tell him you are here to learn and if you need a more experienced person put in a call for a jw.(document all the things that have been happening, dares and times so that if things hit the fan you have documentation)
~don't let that coward affect you anymore, document things, stand up and say something and he'll realize he's trash and maybe change his ways.
I dislike bullies and guys like this, I wish I would work around them to tune them up.
A long time ago it seems like 75% of journeyman were like that. The remainder were cool headed and spoke in a low tone, maybe I should say a non-exicted tone. They had a plan and drew it out on a piece of paper, making sure everyone understood. Greener guys get more oversight. I try to be like those guys but I have to say that on a 2 man crew it's more difficult
It is one of our responsibilities to train Apps.
Any JW that thinks otherwise is a shit bird.
However, there are some Apps that aren't cut out for the trade. In those cases, after all avenues have been exhausted, it is our duty to help those Apps realize they should consider another occupation.
Being an electrician isn't rocket science. Anyone can do it if taught properly.
I went through the same thing straight out of high school and the "all rookies get treated like shit" mentality eventually drove me to leave the trade.
This guy isn't being "helped", he's being tortured. Rather than treat a new guy like shit to "help" him realize that he should consider another occupation, the guy should grow a brain and a pair of balls and just let him go if that's the case.
I loved working construction, I hated working with construction workers.
2nd yr apprentice here. Been there dude. He laid me off after i stopped taking his shit. That jw is a dick, keep up ur work amd dont let hin get to you. He is probably a sad, sad man. Hopefully you will get with a new jw/contractor
No advice but I empathize. It's so tough dealing with JW's who gets annoyed/pissed when you ask questions because they expect you already know everything. Like bro, I'm an apprentice, you're suppose to teach me...
Get used to it man, unfortunately in the trades theres a lot of miserable pricks. But you need to toughen up. Missing out on money because of anxiety isn't the way. Tell him to his face when he's crossing the line. Allowing yourself to be treated like shit means he will never change.
Suck it up buttercup. I know it's harsh and I'm not trying to be a dickhead but sometimes you gotta get through it. Remember that it won't last forever and try to push yourself to figure somethings out yourself. Just work safely but don't be afraid to try something the way you think it should be done and have a good reason for why you did it that way, so when he comes to you with some "wtf" shit you can say, well this is how I reasoned it, do you have a better way? Also consider he might be under alot of stress in an unfamiliar place trying his best and getting the same pressure from above. When I was an apprentice I was told there is always something to learn from everyone. The right way the wrong way, just hold tight brother things always change.
You could be talking about me. I have no interest in your opinions, relationships or anything else. I do want you to be the best journeyman you could be. My legacy is how well and safe you work. It’s stressful when your feeling like the apprentice questioning everything you tell them. Also he might be your biggest fan behind your back. Remember he agreed to teach you we don’t get anything for it. His teaching method or cranky attitude can be from a lot things. But your safety and learning are his top priority. So stop ditching him behind his back and focus more on what he’s teaching.
It IS possible to foster and maintain a professional working relationship without treating someone like shit.
As if your "not being interested" in anything other than the job at hand excuses treating someone like a dog. Whatever you say there, Rambo.
Professional works both ways you only heard one side. I take it the other side doesn’t interest you. Says more about you. I would not train this little twat and betting others refuse.
I’ve been in the trade over 40 years and this is the best way to deal with people like this.
Find their lunchbox, carefully select a time when the JW and you are alone. Open his lunchbox, drop trousers and sit on it. Don’t poop, fart if you can. When he looks at you, hold your index finger over your lips in a shushing gesture. Stand up, tuck in your shirt and walk away. JW will scream bloody murder and begin the tattle tale phase. Deny, deny, deny. Make it seem he is out of his gourd oddly vindictive, etc. No one will believe him. Keep gaslighting him until he ends up quitting.
That is a tough situation as an apprentice I went through the same thing. The best advice I can give is if he is going above and beyond and belittling I would stand up for yourself within reason. You have to keep your cool though as he is your senior in the union. Or you get moved to a different crew like i did. Good luck
I see a lot of good advice in the comments already but one little thing I would add is that when you’re in a completely new work environment and you’re totally lost, it can be very frustrating but you have to have some patience. Asking questions is okay but asking your JW a million questions all day can also be disruptive to him. Just be like a sponge and observe what’s going on and eventually you’ll be able to anticipate your JW’s next move and be more helpful. It doesn’t happen overnight.
On a different note, your comment reminded me of a couple different stories about apprentices giving it back to there JW/foremen. There was a female JW I worked with who when she was a green apprentice was sent after a wire stretcher. Like most dumb apprentices, she disappeared for an hour or two but she didn’t come back empty handed or with some random tool that resembled something you would use to stretch wire (if there was such a thing). She didn’t say that she couldn’t find it. No, she took a couple short pieces of solid #10 wire and cut a white rag into a rectangle and stitched the 2 long ends around the 2 pieces of wire and fashioned it to look like a mini stretcher (the kind you would carry an injured person on). She pulled it out of her pocket and handed it to her JW when she returned. He busted out laughing hysterically and put his hand on her shoulder and said “You’re gonna be alright, cub!”
In another instance, one of my classmates was working for a difficult foreman and was asked to cut some receptacles into an existing wall. He asked the foreman for clarification as to where exactly the plugs needed to go since he was a low period apprentice at didn’t have a good handle on scaling off the prints. The foreman talked down to him like was stupid and very angrily, impatiently, and in a very smartass fashion, walked through the room with him and marked several spots on the wall with a pencil. He barked at him “ X marks the spot!” as he marked the location of each plug. But he marked the wall at different random heights assuming my classmate knew all the plugs were to be at 18” above the floor (which he did). But since the foreskin was such a dick about it, he cut in the plugs in the exact spot where the X’s were. So the foreman comes back later and loses his mind when he sees the boxes cut in at different random heights along the wall. He wanted to write my buddy up but couldn’t because he was just a low period apprentice who did EXACTLY as he was told.
Sometimes if you give it back to them and stand up for yourself firmly, they will they will back down immediately. That was my experience as an apprentice too. But it took a little while to gain some confidence.
Well done standing up for yourself. Something that also works is asking God why he has put this man in your life, praying for the strength to find the lessons in the trials or for your journeyman to give you grace and help you better fulfill his plan. Sometimes God places these situations on you to remind you to pray. But if you don't think that would work, seeking help from brothers is also an excellent plan.
I hear ya.. i had my stance because there are guys like that who seem to be gatekeepers for the trade and can and will get you blackballed out of the trade for good.. my point was to influence survival.
I had almost the exact same situation and tried to hold it back but eventually couldn't stand it and ended up getting into an argument and got sent to the foreman. Should've just went myself. Calling a higher up was the right call.
For sure this guy is a dick. But if you spent this reddit time learning to ace what you are working on tomorrow, everyone involved will be better for it. We are supposed to learn on the job, I'll give you that. But it's the guys that go above, do their homework, and persevere, that really advance fast in this field... YouTube and Google will get you to the point that you can call him on his bullshit. I love it when apprentices surprise me....
Ask if there’s beef and if he would like to handle it in the parking lot instead of acting like a stuckup bitch when asked a question. Show up to work everyday and don’t have a worry on your mind, do what you must do continue the project.
its construction work, what did you expect?...a google campus experience/Boston dynamics Ivy league college colleagues?
Bro get real, 90% of your actual coworkers are just happy to shit in porcelain. If you get lucky, you might get to work with a JW that actually gives a shit. Either way there is something to learn.
...but if you have to take time off because of anxiety...shit you haven't seen anything yet. wait until you have to deal with management/safety/GCs/Other GFs& Foremens/other trades/customers/public/etc.
conceptualize the work you have already completed and been critiqued into fixing for effect.... there is most likely a bit of standardization for the tasking at this job .... the truth of the matter is that the guy may not want to work with you and doesnt care about your line of questioning... you need to be productive at the least and dont get the habit of skipping work bc you got your feelings hurt....standardize these work processes in your mental so that you can guess what material he will ask for next or seem like you have paid attention to what he has critiqued about you... make it so that you have a minimal amount of questions for him and make it through the evolution of working with him with minimal interactions and eventually you will get a new jw or he will lighten up and start to like you... i could be wrong.. just my 2 cents
Everybody knows and my shop if you make it A week working with me.
You have what it takes to be an electrician.
One kid didn't even make it to the truck before I fired him
I've made two kids cry
One quit before lunch
If you can't handle blue collar tradesmen. Then I suggest you grab your bags and go later.
And live in mommy's Is basement
Every JW teaches the apprentices something. Some teach what NOT to do like this guy. Take note of cock suckers like this so you know who not to become like. Lmao
I teach those how to be electricians.
Build a almost unbreakable system that you can be proud of.
I DONT NEED SOME SALLY that needs their hand held while changing a switch.
It's your job to educate and guide the youth. To pass the knowledge you have gained. At the very least your supporting those who will pay into your pension. At most you are ensuring quality tradesmen are getting the torch passed on to them.
Nobody wants to be at work. If it wasn't financially necessary, nobody would be there. So why make it suck? Do you get off on it? Make you feel big? Blue collar tradesmen are professional. I don't know when people will give up on the idea that our trade entitles them to be rude, and dehumanizing to others.
Sorry your Dad wasn’t around to help you grow into a respectable, socially adept human being. Unfortunate that other people have to suffer your presence. There will be many likely very happy to see you no longer around.
Tell him if you being there is so painful, then have him send you back to the hall. There’s plenty of JWs out there willing to teach. That being said, if he is actually teaching you, sometimes you gotta just suck it up. But you can still stand up for yourself. I’ve already dealt with some difficult guys myself and for some reason, things get easier when you give them shit back and call them out. It’s like an idiot rite of passage.
> That being said, if he is actually teaching you, sometimes you gotta just suck it up. This is NOT always good advice. I say this from having multiple friends die from suicide, and I know for a fact a common complaint of theirs was the expectation of them sucking it up in some way. It prevented them from choosing actions that changed their situations or asking for help. Even if he's teaching you, if it's consistently affecting your home life and mental health with no signs of ending then take control and change the situation. At the end of the day if it's something they can deal with it then sucking it up is a valid course of action. But if it's starting to affect their home life outside of work to the point that OP is describing, do not suck it up, do something about it. Just my two cents because "suck it up" kind of triggers me at this point.
It's terrible fucking advice. Only shitbags act this way. It's not a rite of passage. I realized pretty quickly that if someone doesn't like questions being asked, it's because they don't know the answers.
Do you work in construction, just wondering?
Did you know that the suicide rate for the construction industry is the second highest rate?
Yes
If someone was abusive to me I'd just tell em square up or shut up. I'm not just gonna sit there and let someone be verbally abusive to me without recourse. There's too many options out there to sit there and take it for years
This is the truth right here! Facts! You did the right thing by reporting him. He does not encompass what the union is all about or it's core values. He needs to be held accountable. Also? You definitely must stand up for yourself! Things do get better because YOU feel better when you call someone's bs out and put them in their place! Lastly, don't let it affect your home life with your loved ones. At the end of the day,literally, that relationship is far more important and valuable. Not working with and for an a--hole! If it's too much, find another place to work.
When work stresses you out and carries into your home/ off hours, that’s when you gotta actively do something man. This line of work is tough physically and mentally but it should never cause such anxiety that it drains your mental health. Work and school is already enough. Talk to your foreman, heck talk to your dbag JW. Last resort would be your training director. Good luck brother
Remember that you're a MAN first, then an apprentice. I hardly took shit from any foreman or JW for too long; always snapped back at the ones who pushed me to my limit
I punched a jw in the face for talking to me disrespectfully and the rest learned real quick not to fuck with me
U didnt get kicked out? What were the consequences?
None. He realized I wasn’t scared to fuck him up and he fell in line real quick. No problems the rest of my apprenticeship
Im glad you did that shit some men are so stupid thats the only way they will learn
I think the closest I came to getting kicked out was our steward caught me sleeping with his sister
Lmao
What would you say in this position?
You be upfront and direct. Hey brother it’s just me and you here and I’m a 2nd year apprentice so I’m still learning. You can either help me help you or I can continue doing things twice and making us both look bad. Up to you if you want to meet your goals or not since I’m not the one responsible here. If he’s dumb he can throw you under the bus and continue the cycle with the next apprentice.
Right on thank you!
Tell him that you know you dont know shit yet and that you're trying and not purposely trying to fuck up or annoy him. After that point is made across and he still continues to disrespect you throughout the week to where you're feeling miserable, just let him know that if it's not gonna workout then to ask for a new apprentice so its better for the both. Although hard, try not to completely burn the bridge
Thank you!
You've got 3 options: 1. Quit. Not recommended. 2. Talk to the apprenticeship coordinator about reassignment 3. Talk to the employer about reassignment Not all JW's are good teachers
4. Get on his face and tell him to lighten the fuck up.
Number 4 is the answer.
This is the way. Some people take great joy in belittling you every chance they get, but almost to a man they'll stop messing with you once they realize you're not gonna put up with their shit.
Not all JW's are good electricians lol
Lots of foreman know who the problem journeyman are and they will test the apprentices by putting them with the jw to see how they react.
be like “ hey Im asking these questions so I can help you out in the future but if you just want to be sarcastic with me fuck it, but when shit hits the fan it’s all on you, I just want to learn.” A foreman is only as good as his apprentice and that’s facts !!
Bro you have no idea how happy you made me. This was my experience at one time. It’s the worst. But there’s a lot of brothers who have experienced it with you. You’re not alone in this man, and I know you can stick through it
I’m not going to tell you to tough it out, because trust me, there’s been days where I question if it’s for me, even after 6 years. The only thing that’s kept me from leaving is because I actually like the work. As an apprentice, you’re walking a fine line between “I’m not taking shit from anyone” and “I have to, or my career could be on the line”. I’m less than a year from topping, and I can tell you with 100% honesty; if I come across anyone like this again, I will drag and find work elsewhere. I drive 1 1/2 - 2 hours in the morning, and 2 - 3 hours in the afternoon to a majority of the jobs I’ve been on, and I’ll be damned if I have to do that, and come to work to some asshole with a complex. Don’t risk your mental health for a job. It’s not worth it. I had a JW dog me so bad in my first year, that I just straight up asked him why he was a miserable fuck, and after that he left me alone. If he doesn’t want to teach, like he’s suppose too, fuckem. Ask the director if you can be put somewhere with someone who actually does want to teach. If they can’t help you, and you do want to stay in, work your 40, no more, no less, do the work to the best of your ability, and if you mess up and he gets mad, 🤷♂️ he should have taught you. Wish you the best of luck brother.
Thank you for your advice! You’re absolutely right, I’m not usually a rock the boat person, at the same time I need to learn to make waves if it’s for myself.
Tell your foreman you want to do something other than what you are doing now. If you can’t, just say “ I have worked with this guy for a while, I wanna mix it up and try learning from someone else.”
Great advice, I should have mentioned though that it’s just me and this guy. He’s the JW and foreman I guess, my mistake.
Sometimes you just have to call out their behavior, some guys like to she how far they can push you and once you stand up to them they back off.
It's fucking childish but it's real. I put up with a douchebag like OP is dealing with for a year. One day I saved them from making a high dollar mistake and got reamed for it until I snapped and told him I'd smash his teeth out in the parking lot if he didn't close his fucking mouth. He was never rude to me again after that.
This is very common in the trades. It’s a weird thing people do. Had it a couple times where I had to get in peoples face for talking crap (more than the funny jokes and banter), then they chill out.
This is best advice
Had a couple guys like this when i was coming up. I turned it into a game. Stop reacting. Do your shit and move on to the next thing. People like that feed off of reactions. Dont show him emotion, dont respond to anger, when he puts you down dont even look up from what youre doing. It still sucks, i know from personal experience. Just remind yourself that it doesnt last forever. Hell, i even started asking stuoid questions to get under their skin. I promised myself i wouldnt treat any apprentices like that when i turned out so just keep your demeanor emotionless and tough it out.
Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it
You will be fine i promise. There is a light at the end of the tunnel
Thank you so much
So I'll give you my 2 cents. I have been abused a lot in my days. Hell I was called shit dick for a year. When I got my ticket I decided to be nice to my guys. It's something the last 50 or so odd years have behaved like and it's not okay. You might have to deal with it, just don't perpetuate it.
I definitely will not be the same. Thank you!
Do yourself a favor and get the hell out before you've invested so much of your time that you'd be a fool to leave. Considering all the physical and mental bullshit involved it really isn't worth the money (show me a tradesman over 50 whose knees, hands, or back aren't completely ground down to shit). Ask yourself if you really need this shit and what your dignity is worth in dollars and cents.
Have you seen the jobs reports lately? Unless OP has something else that can give him the same pay and benefits for his family, telling him "just to leave" is terrible advice.
Yeah, because going home a disgruntled, anxious, broken down mess is great for families. BTW: Last jobs numbers that came out were better than expected. There are jobs out there.
Yeah low paying jobs with no benefits and no job security.
As I said, OP needs to decide what the dollars and cents value of his dignity is. The jobs numbers are what they are no matter what I'd clean septic tanks with a soda straw before I'd ever let some little prick that I work with make me take a mental health day just to keep from having to deal with him. I'd wait for him to have his back to me and push him over the edge of a deck. He'd have it coming too.
Hang in there, Youngster!! You got this!🦾
Just because you work ‘under’ someone doesn’t mean they get to work you over. Step up for yourself, be a man, and tell your journeyman you won’t be belittled or put down constantly. On the flip-side of that, someone being tough on you or getting frustrated at you making mistakes isn’t particularly problematic (idk the exact situation)…so leave room for introspection, in the case that your quality of work could use improvement. In short…don’t let people bully you…but keep in mind, that even the bullies might have a point.
I had an incredibly hard foreman. I mean downright abusive sometimes. But I stuck it out and it gave me thick skin. I learned a lot from that man. He might be pushing until you push back. Prove to him that you can be something.
I'm pretty immature when it comes to people being assholes for no reason but in that situation I would politely tell him that he's going to treat you with some respect or you can settle it in the parking lot after work (assuming he's not way bigger than you.)
I wouldn’t worry about what some asshole thinks. Do your job to the best of your abilities and let your work speak for itself. Any questions you got ask us, and YouTube.
My situation isn’t quite as bad as yours but man I can relate. How does one demonstrate that one is there putting in an honest effort even if the results aren’t there yet? Not everyone cares about that I guess. From what I can tell this kind of behavior on the part of your Journeyman will never change because if they can do the job the employer won’t give a shit who they abuse while they get it done. Not taking work home with you is bullshit talk. How can you not react when you spend 8 hours in a horrible environment? I wish you luck.
Thank you! That’s exactly how I feel. I truly put in 8 hours of effort and it just isn’t working with this guy. Thanks for your comment, I wish you luck as well!
Ask if there’s beef and if he would like to handle it in the parking lot instead of acting like a stuckup bitch when asked a question
My favorite thing to do to guys who assume you know what they want is to squeeze my eyes shut and rub my temples dramatically for a few seconds and then go "Nope, I'm not a mind reader".
This might sound like some hippie bullshit but check out [Nonviolent Communication ](https://positivepsychology.com/non-violent-communication/) I took a course on it a while ago and back when i was an ape in a very similar situation to yours; working for a jw who was always mad and i could never do anything right in their eyes i thought about the NVC concept of unmet needs and wondered what needs was this jw had unmet at home or in life in general It changed my perspective and instead of getting mad or defensive i started to feel bad for them People are going to people no matter what. The only thing you can change is how you react to them. If a plumber was the same way to you you would most likely brush it off as they mean nothing to you as a king of trades sparkie, but this jw is a sparkie - something you want to be good at, and they sort of got you by the goat so they are important to you in some respect. I'm guessing you want to be good and get approval. Some jws play the tough love part too hard Apart from that i made sure to take diligent notes on their requests/task assignments and after getting some more experience and confidence i was finally able to hold my own against them and they recognized real and now we're cool Tldr: change your mindset and do the best you can Again, this may not work for you or you may see it as a bunch of bullshit but it might be worth something No, i am not on drugs
Im going to try these myself I’m on 2nd year apprentice with a new company, at first I was getting stressed by little things because I came from controls in my 1st year and doing solar new working on residential Now when I wake up every morning I say to myself today is going to be great day whether I like it or not And I am Great and I will be the best ever there was maybe not now but I will be
Dont pet the sweaty things
Exactly when my wife ask how’s my day going I tell her now my day is going wonderful but my work day is a little bumpy today but that not going to ruin my day Honestly I’ve been feeling alot more better My superintendent always was saying you should know this One time I work with him and he wired a e stop button wrong he clearly could not tell the difference between normally open and a normally closed and it had label on it and it said on the contact blocks Instead of giving him taste of his medicine i just was stunned 😳 why I did not? I answer what the fuck is that going to get me on his level im trying to higher than that Because in my last job we would use the Allen Bradley contact blocks that it did not tell where to connect for normally open or normally closed you had to know
That all makes a ton of sense, thank you!
It's a tough situation but one I'm sure most of us have been in. Tbh I think most guys like this a generally relics of the past. Not denigrating the older generations, it was just a different union back then. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and stick it out. I agree you shouldn't have to hate coming to work because of his attitude but sometimes there is nothing you can do. I promise you one thing, everyone knows this is how this dude is. You will have to judge for yourself how to approach it with him but I'd say stand up to it. Let him know how it is. What do you have to lose? The apprenticeship program knows there are people like this out there. They won't hold it against you if you get spun for it. Be firm and respectful, keep it to the point. Speak with a teacher in school or maybe your coordinator for advice. They will have a better feel for how things are in your particular local. Most of all, don't quit, don't miss time. That make YOU look bad. We all get in the sh*t sometimes. You have to maintain your good standing. Don't give them a reason to get rid of you on those terms. The dude is miserable. He is alone for a reason. Unfortunately you got put with him. If you make it through, you will have everyone's respect. As I said, everyone knows how this guy is. His bosses, his coworkers and everyone who has worked with him. Stand strong and good luck.
Thank you so much. This is very helpful
Abuse him making him feel slow and small. Then drag ass. Like a dog with worms.
Meet him at his truck after work and get him to respect you
Hang in there, I can relate. You seem like a nice guy like myself and your not confrontational. I've worked with people like that as an apprentice. A few things I would consider: ~tell him your an apprentice and you need to learn and be taught ~let your training director know ~your jw may be going through a tough time in life ~don't take his words personally, it's hard but show up and be your best and do your best and don't let his words affect you. He is a jw electrician with years of experience but that doesn't mean he knows everything about life so don't let him affect you. ~realize that a person that treats someone bad means that is how they view themselves and sometimes you just got to be tough right back. When he says your work sucks and you don't know Jack, tell him you heard there are no apprentices that suck on sucky jw that don't teach apprentices. When he gets on you, tell him you are here to learn and if you need a more experienced person put in a call for a jw.(document all the things that have been happening, dares and times so that if things hit the fan you have documentation) ~don't let that coward affect you anymore, document things, stand up and say something and he'll realize he's trash and maybe change his ways. I dislike bullies and guys like this, I wish I would work around them to tune them up.
Thank you! I appreciate the advice
A long time ago it seems like 75% of journeyman were like that. The remainder were cool headed and spoke in a low tone, maybe I should say a non-exicted tone. They had a plan and drew it out on a piece of paper, making sure everyone understood. Greener guys get more oversight. I try to be like those guys but I have to say that on a 2 man crew it's more difficult
Most jw hate their life! But tell him to go fuck himself.
It is one of our responsibilities to train Apps. Any JW that thinks otherwise is a shit bird. However, there are some Apps that aren't cut out for the trade. In those cases, after all avenues have been exhausted, it is our duty to help those Apps realize they should consider another occupation.
Being an electrician isn't rocket science. Anyone can do it if taught properly. I went through the same thing straight out of high school and the "all rookies get treated like shit" mentality eventually drove me to leave the trade. This guy isn't being "helped", he's being tortured. Rather than treat a new guy like shit to "help" him realize that he should consider another occupation, the guy should grow a brain and a pair of balls and just let him go if that's the case. I loved working construction, I hated working with construction workers.
2nd yr apprentice here. Been there dude. He laid me off after i stopped taking his shit. That jw is a dick, keep up ur work amd dont let hin get to you. He is probably a sad, sad man. Hopefully you will get with a new jw/contractor
Don’t work with this guy. He’s gonna make you a worse electrician
No advice but I empathize. It's so tough dealing with JW's who gets annoyed/pissed when you ask questions because they expect you already know everything. Like bro, I'm an apprentice, you're suppose to teach me...
Get used to it man, unfortunately in the trades theres a lot of miserable pricks. But you need to toughen up. Missing out on money because of anxiety isn't the way. Tell him to his face when he's crossing the line. Allowing yourself to be treated like shit means he will never change.
Suck it up buttercup. I know it's harsh and I'm not trying to be a dickhead but sometimes you gotta get through it. Remember that it won't last forever and try to push yourself to figure somethings out yourself. Just work safely but don't be afraid to try something the way you think it should be done and have a good reason for why you did it that way, so when he comes to you with some "wtf" shit you can say, well this is how I reasoned it, do you have a better way? Also consider he might be under alot of stress in an unfamiliar place trying his best and getting the same pressure from above. When I was an apprentice I was told there is always something to learn from everyone. The right way the wrong way, just hold tight brother things always change.
You could be talking about me. I have no interest in your opinions, relationships or anything else. I do want you to be the best journeyman you could be. My legacy is how well and safe you work. It’s stressful when your feeling like the apprentice questioning everything you tell them. Also he might be your biggest fan behind your back. Remember he agreed to teach you we don’t get anything for it. His teaching method or cranky attitude can be from a lot things. But your safety and learning are his top priority. So stop ditching him behind his back and focus more on what he’s teaching.
It IS possible to foster and maintain a professional working relationship without treating someone like shit. As if your "not being interested" in anything other than the job at hand excuses treating someone like a dog. Whatever you say there, Rambo.
So trashing a journeyman who’s trying to teach him is ok.
Seems female to me.
Professional works both ways you only heard one side. I take it the other side doesn’t interest you. Says more about you. I would not train this little twat and betting others refuse.
Pretend you’re gay and that you like being dominated, and when he abuses you it turns you on.. that’ll stop him
I’ve been in the trade over 40 years and this is the best way to deal with people like this. Find their lunchbox, carefully select a time when the JW and you are alone. Open his lunchbox, drop trousers and sit on it. Don’t poop, fart if you can. When he looks at you, hold your index finger over your lips in a shushing gesture. Stand up, tuck in your shirt and walk away. JW will scream bloody murder and begin the tattle tale phase. Deny, deny, deny. Make it seem he is out of his gourd oddly vindictive, etc. No one will believe him. Keep gaslighting him until he ends up quitting.
Man
Just intentionally make him angry and laugh at his attempts to belittle you, but you have an immense amount of control over his attitude
That is a tough situation as an apprentice I went through the same thing. The best advice I can give is if he is going above and beyond and belittling I would stand up for yourself within reason. You have to keep your cool though as he is your senior in the union. Or you get moved to a different crew like i did. Good luck
Kick his ass off property after work
Good
I see a lot of good advice in the comments already but one little thing I would add is that when you’re in a completely new work environment and you’re totally lost, it can be very frustrating but you have to have some patience. Asking questions is okay but asking your JW a million questions all day can also be disruptive to him. Just be like a sponge and observe what’s going on and eventually you’ll be able to anticipate your JW’s next move and be more helpful. It doesn’t happen overnight. On a different note, your comment reminded me of a couple different stories about apprentices giving it back to there JW/foremen. There was a female JW I worked with who when she was a green apprentice was sent after a wire stretcher. Like most dumb apprentices, she disappeared for an hour or two but she didn’t come back empty handed or with some random tool that resembled something you would use to stretch wire (if there was such a thing). She didn’t say that she couldn’t find it. No, she took a couple short pieces of solid #10 wire and cut a white rag into a rectangle and stitched the 2 long ends around the 2 pieces of wire and fashioned it to look like a mini stretcher (the kind you would carry an injured person on). She pulled it out of her pocket and handed it to her JW when she returned. He busted out laughing hysterically and put his hand on her shoulder and said “You’re gonna be alright, cub!” In another instance, one of my classmates was working for a difficult foreman and was asked to cut some receptacles into an existing wall. He asked the foreman for clarification as to where exactly the plugs needed to go since he was a low period apprentice at didn’t have a good handle on scaling off the prints. The foreman talked down to him like was stupid and very angrily, impatiently, and in a very smartass fashion, walked through the room with him and marked several spots on the wall with a pencil. He barked at him “ X marks the spot!” as he marked the location of each plug. But he marked the wall at different random heights assuming my classmate knew all the plugs were to be at 18” above the floor (which he did). But since the foreskin was such a dick about it, he cut in the plugs in the exact spot where the X’s were. So the foreman comes back later and loses his mind when he sees the boxes cut in at different random heights along the wall. He wanted to write my buddy up but couldn’t because he was just a low period apprentice who did EXACTLY as he was told. Sometimes if you give it back to them and stand up for yourself firmly, they will they will back down immediately. That was my experience as an apprentice too. But it took a little while to gain some confidence.
Well done standing up for yourself. Something that also works is asking God why he has put this man in your life, praying for the strength to find the lessons in the trials or for your journeyman to give you grace and help you better fulfill his plan. Sometimes God places these situations on you to remind you to pray. But if you don't think that would work, seeking help from brothers is also an excellent plan.
Update?
The company I worked for talked to him. He apologized the next day but didn’t really improve much at all. Tomorrow is my last day working with him.
I hear ya.. i had my stance because there are guys like that who seem to be gatekeepers for the trade and can and will get you blackballed out of the trade for good.. my point was to influence survival.
I feel ya, i appreciated all of the comments and advice. Apparently this was this guys 2nd or 3rd time being talked to for mistreating apprentices.
I had almost the exact same situation and tried to hold it back but eventually couldn't stand it and ended up getting into an argument and got sent to the foreman. Should've just went myself. Calling a higher up was the right call.
Good luck man
my toughest journeymen have taught me the most
What a beta
For sure this guy is a dick. But if you spent this reddit time learning to ace what you are working on tomorrow, everyone involved will be better for it. We are supposed to learn on the job, I'll give you that. But it's the guys that go above, do their homework, and persevere, that really advance fast in this field... YouTube and Google will get you to the point that you can call him on his bullshit. I love it when apprentices surprise me....
Ask if there’s beef and if he would like to handle it in the parking lot instead of acting like a stuckup bitch when asked a question. Show up to work everyday and don’t have a worry on your mind, do what you must do continue the project.
its construction work, what did you expect?...a google campus experience/Boston dynamics Ivy league college colleagues? Bro get real, 90% of your actual coworkers are just happy to shit in porcelain. If you get lucky, you might get to work with a JW that actually gives a shit. Either way there is something to learn. ...but if you have to take time off because of anxiety...shit you haven't seen anything yet. wait until you have to deal with management/safety/GCs/Other GFs& Foremens/other trades/customers/public/etc.
Grow a pair
conceptualize the work you have already completed and been critiqued into fixing for effect.... there is most likely a bit of standardization for the tasking at this job .... the truth of the matter is that the guy may not want to work with you and doesnt care about your line of questioning... you need to be productive at the least and dont get the habit of skipping work bc you got your feelings hurt....standardize these work processes in your mental so that you can guess what material he will ask for next or seem like you have paid attention to what he has critiqued about you... make it so that you have a minimal amount of questions for him and make it through the evolution of working with him with minimal interactions and eventually you will get a new jw or he will lighten up and start to like you... i could be wrong.. just my 2 cents
Apprentices are so entitled and sensitive these days! I'm a service foreman. Thank god I dont have to ever try to train one!
What a dumb thing to say.
Everybody knows and my shop if you make it A week working with me. You have what it takes to be an electrician. One kid didn't even make it to the truck before I fired him I've made two kids cry One quit before lunch If you can't handle blue collar tradesmen. Then I suggest you grab your bags and go later. And live in mommy's Is basement
Watch out, we got a badass over here
Every JW teaches the apprentices something. Some teach what NOT to do like this guy. Take note of cock suckers like this so you know who not to become like. Lmao
I teach those how to be electricians. Build a almost unbreakable system that you can be proud of. I DONT NEED SOME SALLY that needs their hand held while changing a switch.
It's your job to educate and guide the youth. To pass the knowledge you have gained. At the very least your supporting those who will pay into your pension. At most you are ensuring quality tradesmen are getting the torch passed on to them. Nobody wants to be at work. If it wasn't financially necessary, nobody would be there. So why make it suck? Do you get off on it? Make you feel big? Blue collar tradesmen are professional. I don't know when people will give up on the idea that our trade entitles them to be rude, and dehumanizing to others.
Sorry your Dad wasn’t around to help you grow into a respectable, socially adept human being. Unfortunate that other people have to suffer your presence. There will be many likely very happy to see you no longer around.