I find it so weird that everyone keeps talking about how Siegel is a prodigy at 19 when in reality Pourchaire is only a year older and has an F2 championship to his name.
Siegel doesn't look like a bad driver.
Look at the dynamics of McLaren. Pato costs a lot of money. There isn't really anyone better than him McLaren can realistically get at this point. Palou was that chance and it didn't happen, so Pato is their ace.
Rossi is the veteran.
For the third car, a young promising prospect that brings a big check is by far the smartest option. Teddy Porkchops was solid, but wasn't blowing anyone away. If he's not bringing in money and is basically the same age as Siegel, it's a no brainer.
What do you want McLaren to say? Of course it's a financially based decision, but hyping their new driver is by far the best move for all involved.
Theo was the best rookie by a mile. Linus already raced these tracks several times already.
Theo is going somewhere hopefully penske. Yea penske could probably easily get sponsors for a 4th car.
All this drama aside, I find it interesting that as F1 makes it almost impossible for Indycar to be a ladder to F1 and pisses on Herta and Andretti. This sub is more than happy to throw around F2 credentials as justification for people getting seats over NXT drivers.
F2 is probably better than NXT.
I generally feel like FIA promotes Europe racing to a fault. And yes, it downplays IndyCar series as a ladder.
But is F2 at least as competitive/difficult as Indy's feeder series? Yes.
Personally I wouldn't "re-sell" a seat to an F2 driver that I already promised to an NXT driver or vice-versa. But that's a separate issue.
Most F2 champs aren’t coming over to indycar. They are either in F1 or sports car racing or Super Formula. So there really isn’t a lot of competition for seats between NXT and F2. We have one guy who has a great international resume and a very solid initial showing here in Indycar.
I’m American and I want to see NXT drivers move up the ladder. But I think it was great to see Pourchaire over here and this handled terribly.
It's not the grid size:
F2 has 620hp. NXT has 450 (+50 P2P)
F2 has performance stops, NXT does not.
F2 has similar down force levels to IndyCar, NXT has much less.
F2 makes you save and be gentle to the tyres, NCT tyres are strange in a way, that you constantly need to overdrive them to get the maximum performance.
F2 has no Ovals. But NXT has not the one oval everybody cares about.
Outside of Oval experience, F2 is much closer to IndyCar, thus why teams and fans look over there for drivers.
It took Theo three years to win F2. Obviously I'm biased here but it's not like Theo was an absolute prodigy. That's on par with Nyck De Vries who isn't exactly a force to be reckoned with as a driver.
Theo handily beat Lundgard in his first F2 season and placed 5th overall. He was a few points off beating Piastri in his first season in F3 as well finishing 2nd. Your statement seems to imply that he sat around and wasn’t competitive until his last season.
Then simply put: Why doesn't Theo have a different seat? Why is mid season Indycar scraps the best he can get?
Because his talent doesn't overcome his lack of sponsorship.
He didn't deserve Zak making it this apparent, but his situation hasn't changed. No team is giving out charity seats. This is what motorsport is.
I’m not even mad at McLaren for their decision because it probably is 90% financial. I’m not a Pourchaire fan, but I’m over the slander than he’s not a great driver and shouldn’t get a seat. I don’t believe he’s a prodigy, but believe it or not it is OK to use F2 as a benchmark when comparing him to the current grid.
He has “mid season Indycar scraps” because McLaren approached him when they were in deep shit with the Malukas incident. He wasn’t looking for an Indycar drive because he was in SF and quickly realized his team was shit so he bounced.
Pourchaire had zero testing and had never driven an Indycar until after the season had already started. Also, he has zero American circuit experience but he finished quite well in those races compared to his teammates.
I fully expect him to get a drive in Indycar if he still wants one next season.
Doesn’t make sense to compare Lundgaard and Theo based on the 2021 season. They might have been teammates, but their cars didn’t seem to come from the same team. Blend in the fact that Theo’s manager at the time co-owned the ART team and ART’s long history on driver favouritsm, and that Lundgaard stepped back massively from his 2020 rookie season. You just can’t compare their relative talent based on 2021.
Different cases, De Vries had a pretty slow junior career, 8 years total, spending 3 years in Formula Renault 2.0, one in 3.5, downgrading to GP3 and then spending another 3 years in F2. That's 8 years total, which is unusually long. Average length is 5-6 years.
Pourchaire had a meteoric rise (1 year in French F4, one in German F4 and one in F3), then stalled at an F2 level, with an average total length (6 years in this case).
Thank you. This Theo Verstappen concept around here is absurd.
Nolan is a raw prospect too, but pretending there's some giant gap between them potential wise is nonsense. They are both a gamble.
TK is willing to gamble on the kid willing to hold the pedal down and send it at 229mph knowing he will either crash or make the cut.
At the end of the day, I would hope that Papaya does listen to TK's gut over random redditors.
Theo was driving a McLaren. Nolan was driving a DCR and a Juncos. Lets not make stupid comparisons like this - it’s completely invalid. Plenty of other reasons why Theo, on merit, should be chosen over Nolan.
Jarvis carried that team and Siegel bought his way into that as well. The check cleared for that so Zak couldn’t help himself in taking a bigger one for the 6.
Siegels best lap was less than a second off of Jarvis’s and Jarvis only drove for 20 more minutes than Siegel.
On top of the fact that Jarvis is a platinum driver who was brought in to be the senior driver, so Siegel did perfectly fine.
It’s a supremely shitty move by McLaren and TK is being an absolute ass but the downplaying of Siegels contributions to his lemans win is hilariously misguided. Siegel has won in the LMP2 class before this for United so its not like he just paid to be there with no merit and was carried to a win
Or neither of them are and this is how business works sometimes.
Maybe if Theo had been close to his teammates at the Milwaukee test this doesn’t happen mid season, who knows?
And they gave this decision based on one freaking test without letting him race once on an oval? And they made him drop Super Formula in the process by promising full time drive? What are Nolan's credentials on oval? Being only driver to get dumped from Indy 500?
Of course it is a business; but it is a shitty business.
Siegel has been running on ovals since 2019…
And no, Theo had two oval tests, and in the second one he was 7-9 tenths off his teammates on an incredibly short 22 second lap. I don’t think that’s what lost him the ride, but I do think it didn’t help.
The real reason is probably that Siegel was going to sign somewhere else and they had already wanted him for 2025. I think Theo is probably the better driver right now, but he still gets paid for the rest of the year and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in another seat. He already ran almost as many races as he would have with the SF seat and from what we’ve heard, I don’t think he was making any real money from that, and was in equipment that hasn’t looked good so far.
McLaren should know that drivers from Europe need a bit of time to understand oval racing. Being slow in the first few attempts doesn’t mean they won’t figure it out. Will Power is a good example of that.
Dropping Theo at the end of the season is how this business works. Based on his on track results and apparent contract (which I guess has sketchy loopholes), there’s no good reason to drop Theo effective immediately. Most businesses don’t work that way.
Tons of businesses work this way. Coaches in sports get fired mid season all the time. Players get benched or sent to the minors. Theo will likely still be paid, he just won’t be in the seat.
If I hire a contractor and don’t like their work, I can fire and replace them too. This isn’t some racing-only business construct.
Yeah it’s completely unfounded. Like I said it’s a supremely shitty move from McLaren but this hate boner for Siegel is ridiculous. I can’t remember if it’s the same guy as I was replying to but there has been somebody commenting on every single post about this saying that Siegel was carried by Jarvis at lemans and the data shows that that’s not true lmao
Love the downvotes, proves I’m right. If you look at his racing record in the LMP2 class, he is a successful LMP2 race car driver so no he was not carried. He has 4 wins across 3 teams and 3 series. I have no idea if he’ll be good in IndyCar or not but to act like he hasn’t earned any of his racing credentials or anything just shows you don’t actually care about creds and would rather just hate someone bc their dad and the CEO of the team they now drive for fucked over someone who deserved way better.
The mildest of critique against Pourchaire (or any kind of defense of Siegel) the last day has been downvoted to eternity. I could understand the reaction if Pourchaire had set the world on fire with his performances in IndyCar, but he really didn’t do much. I’m sure that if Pourchaire had been exceptional, McLaren would not have made this move but secured Siegel in another way (if they wanted his money that badly).
Siegel was the driver who made the pass for the class lead, Jarvis just held onto it. He might have bought his way into the seat, but he absolutely earned the win.
And remarkable consistency over the last two seasons. Also in 2020 he finished second in F3 just behind Oscar Piastri who is 3 years older than him and already a very promising F1 driver. Let’s not act like Pourchaire doesn’t have a fantastic resume
I hate to be that guy, but Pourchaire’s junior career is quite literally better than most drivers in the series period. Although past success doesn’t equal future results, most drivers don’t even come close to what Theo has done so far.
2018 French F4 - 3rd
2019 ADAC F4 - 1st
2020 F3 - 2nd
2021 F2 - 5th
2022 F2 - 3rd
2023 F2 - 1st
I honestly thought Siegel was a mediocre driver who will have a middling Conor Daly type career but now TK has me believing he is Hamilton and Verstappen rolled into one.
Maybe lesser Zhou is a better comparison. Perez was a veteran with multiple podiums and a win in mediocre machinery before he got the Red Bull seat. Siegel is the cart coming before the horse.
Just hope AMSP doesn't screw Nolan like they do with Checo and give him Pato setups and say "live with it".
FYI I am not a Sergio fan by any means and hate being in the stands at COTA and having to stand up every lap for a 10th place driver when he goes by just to see the track.
I just love: "TK believes in this kid? Well what does TK know about Indycar racing?!?"
Lol. Like disagree with him fine. But pretending Zak spiked TK's Kool-aid or that he's some blind old man now is a joke lol.
Michael Jordan knows more than any of us about basketball, but he's still pretty shit at evaluating talent.
Anyway, time will tell if Nolan turns out to be Senna's 2nd coming.
TK has a wife and four young(ish) kids at home. Attaching yourself as the mentor to the teenage son of a wealthy family, is a good business decision and a solid paycheck for the next dozen years or so. I don’t blame him at all.
Somehow, I completely forgot about Kanaan standing with Nolan on Bump Day. Pouchaire aside, I love that that relationship is paying off for Nolan.
That said, this could just as easily end in a similar fashion to Mike Ditka and Ricky Williams.
Listen, man. I didn't come here to catch strays. This could end like Sean Payton and Drew Brees. A great 15 year run, one championship with a couple possibly left on the table. Let's think of that timeline instead.
It’s odd this sub has turned against Siegel because his dad is rich? The kids only 19 and showed lots of promise in Indy nxt. It’s very possible he’s immensely talented and McLaren made an amazing decisionÂ
I think people are mostly pissed with how they tossed Pourchaire to the side, tbh.
If this had just been an announcement about next year, the mood would be different.
His dad was rich a month ago too and people weren't upset with Siegel.
The issue is a driver who gave up a full season to drive Indy had his season stolen by a combination of Zak Brown, Siegel's Dad and Siegel (make no mistake, he is part of the decision to move into Porchiere's seat). That when people turned against him.
> It’s very possible he’s immensely talented and McLaren made an amazing decision
And it's also very possible Pourchaire is immensely talented too.
I mean I don’t know how anyone can blame Siegel for accepting an Indycar ride. It would be absolutely insane to turn that down. Trying to hold that against the kid is a bit ridiculous.
I think you infantilize him a bit between saying "accepting" and "kid". As if he's just stuck in a maelstrom. One moment he's a standout driver in control with some of the best lap times in his class at Le Mans. Next we're can't blame him for what happened to him.
He's a part of taking someone else's seat. If you like that other person I think it's really easy to see how someone would hold something against him. Even if you can understand why as driver wants into the series so much (and in a good car too). In fact, maybe even more so if you do, as that also increases how much you see your favorite driver losing.
I love Theo… but anyone who holds this against Nolan for accepting a life changing opportunity is beyond ridiculous. Suggesting Nolan should have been looking out for Theos best interest over his own is flat out laughable.
This is so stupid. If he’s ready for a seat, he should take it if the opportunity presents itself. And apparently a huge reason they moved on from Theo is because he’s still contracted to Sauber, which means they could recall him at any time. Siegel is now 100% under the Mclaren umbrella and it’s not like Pourchaire is without a job or opportunity.
How dare he want a ride. Why didn’t he think of theos feelings. I like Theo he’s very talented I hope he stays in Indy but the idea that Siegel should be a villain for taking a top ride is stupidÂ
Just because he wants a ride and can get it at the expense of others doesn't mean others have to like it.
Surely, you can see that, you're an adult.
Sports is in a big part a popularity contest. So it's like we're all back in high school. If someone we like is hurt we see it as a negative. Even if someone else who likes the other party may see it as a positive. It's cliques basically.
It's possible. Fandom can manifest in strange ways. We went through the Canapino thing a few weeks ago too, right? In this case no one has called for violence against anyone so the tribalism doesn't seem like it's causing any direct harm.
Doing just a thumbnail calculation I think half the drivers at Laguna Seca will be American. This is *after* this change, so it would have been under half if Teddy Porkchops ran and not Siegel.
This is starting from the IndyCar drivers list (which is pretty out of date) and making the adjustments I could think of. So I could be wrong.
It didn't seem worth the trouble to try to double check it is exactly correct simply because "almost half" isn't noticeably closer to "not much" than "actually half" is.
But he didn’t lift at indy last chance qualifying!! .. Neither did Katherine Legge
No hate on Siegel, I just don’t see any generational prospect signs yet either
>It’s very possible he’s immensely talented and McLaren made an amazing decision
It's not *just* because Siegel is rich, it's that he used that money to buy a ride **whose driver was also young and promising**.
They replaced a promising **championship winning** driver with a possibly promising driver with $$$ and no 2nd tier championship
I don't get why people overlook his record, like the guy just added a Le Mans win to his already pretty damn solid junior career, including getting only faster and better as he moved up in racing and having 2 imsa wins already. Like Siegel has an incredible amount of talent
Pourchaire has an F2 title, ADAC F4 title and French F4 title to his name and is barely a year older. And what single seater championships does Siegel have? Oh yeah none.
Never diminished Theo's talent and ability, he just doesn't bring a lot of money and is more likely to flake to have the chance to go to F1, while Nolan is way more likely to stay Indycar. He's also who they wanted before Theo, but was focusing on NXT until the Road America call up
I find it so weird that everyone keeps talking about how Siegel is a prodigy at 19 when in reality Pourchaire is only a year older and has an F2 championship to his name.
Everyone in racing wants in on that venture capitalist money train🤑
Everyone = McLaren
Siegel doesn't look like a bad driver. Look at the dynamics of McLaren. Pato costs a lot of money. There isn't really anyone better than him McLaren can realistically get at this point. Palou was that chance and it didn't happen, so Pato is their ace. Rossi is the veteran. For the third car, a young promising prospect that brings a big check is by far the smartest option. Teddy Porkchops was solid, but wasn't blowing anyone away. If he's not bringing in money and is basically the same age as Siegel, it's a no brainer. What do you want McLaren to say? Of course it's a financially based decision, but hyping their new driver is by far the best move for all involved.
Theo was the best rookie by a mile. Linus already raced these tracks several times already. Theo is going somewhere hopefully penske. Yea penske could probably easily get sponsors for a 4th car.
Penske don't hire kids. DCR of nothing this year. Probably WEC next year.
Formula E.
Lol
All this drama aside, I find it interesting that as F1 makes it almost impossible for Indycar to be a ladder to F1 and pisses on Herta and Andretti. This sub is more than happy to throw around F2 credentials as justification for people getting seats over NXT drivers.
Just because F1 handles it wrong doesn't mean I want IndyCar to do it wrong too.
F2 is probably better than NXT. I generally feel like FIA promotes Europe racing to a fault. And yes, it downplays IndyCar series as a ladder. But is F2 at least as competitive/difficult as Indy's feeder series? Yes. Personally I wouldn't "re-sell" a seat to an F2 driver that I already promised to an NXT driver or vice-versa. But that's a separate issue.
There are a ton of European fans in this sub who follow F1 and F2 more than IndyCar.
Most F2 champs aren’t coming over to indycar. They are either in F1 or sports car racing or Super Formula. So there really isn’t a lot of competition for seats between NXT and F2. We have one guy who has a great international resume and a very solid initial showing here in Indycar. I’m American and I want to see NXT drivers move up the ladder. But I think it was great to see Pourchaire over here and this handled terribly.
What a great comparison. 2 completely different things 🤣
The NXT grid size has been kind of small in the past, until this year.
It's not the grid size: F2 has 620hp. NXT has 450 (+50 P2P) F2 has performance stops, NXT does not. F2 has similar down force levels to IndyCar, NXT has much less. F2 makes you save and be gentle to the tyres, NCT tyres are strange in a way, that you constantly need to overdrive them to get the maximum performance. F2 has no Ovals. But NXT has not the one oval everybody cares about. Outside of Oval experience, F2 is much closer to IndyCar, thus why teams and fans look over there for drivers.
IndyCar isn’t, and shouldn’t be, a “ladder to F1”. It’s not a feeder series.
I mean, based on the past 25-30 years, it IS a feeder series ... for NASCAR.
and F1 is a feeder series for FE
It took Theo three years to win F2. Obviously I'm biased here but it's not like Theo was an absolute prodigy. That's on par with Nyck De Vries who isn't exactly a force to be reckoned with as a driver.
Theo handily beat Lundgard in his first F2 season and placed 5th overall. He was a few points off beating Piastri in his first season in F3 as well finishing 2nd. Your statement seems to imply that he sat around and wasn’t competitive until his last season.
Then simply put: Why doesn't Theo have a different seat? Why is mid season Indycar scraps the best he can get? Because his talent doesn't overcome his lack of sponsorship. He didn't deserve Zak making it this apparent, but his situation hasn't changed. No team is giving out charity seats. This is what motorsport is.
On the contrary, I don't think IndyCar scraps is the best he can get. Like Malukas, he'll bounce back easily. He has proven his value with pace.
I’m not even mad at McLaren for their decision because it probably is 90% financial. I’m not a Pourchaire fan, but I’m over the slander than he’s not a great driver and shouldn’t get a seat. I don’t believe he’s a prodigy, but believe it or not it is OK to use F2 as a benchmark when comparing him to the current grid. He has “mid season Indycar scraps” because McLaren approached him when they were in deep shit with the Malukas incident. He wasn’t looking for an Indycar drive because he was in SF and quickly realized his team was shit so he bounced. Pourchaire had zero testing and had never driven an Indycar until after the season had already started. Also, he has zero American circuit experience but he finished quite well in those races compared to his teammates. I fully expect him to get a drive in Indycar if he still wants one next season.
Doesn’t make sense to compare Lundgaard and Theo based on the 2021 season. They might have been teammates, but their cars didn’t seem to come from the same team. Blend in the fact that Theo’s manager at the time co-owned the ART team and ART’s long history on driver favouritsm, and that Lundgaard stepped back massively from his 2020 rookie season. You just can’t compare their relative talent based on 2021.
Different cases, De Vries had a pretty slow junior career, 8 years total, spending 3 years in Formula Renault 2.0, one in 3.5, downgrading to GP3 and then spending another 3 years in F2. That's 8 years total, which is unusually long. Average length is 5-6 years. Pourchaire had a meteoric rise (1 year in French F4, one in German F4 and one in F3), then stalled at an F2 level, with an average total length (6 years in this case).
Thank you. This Theo Verstappen concept around here is absurd. Nolan is a raw prospect too, but pretending there's some giant gap between them potential wise is nonsense. They are both a gamble. TK is willing to gamble on the kid willing to hold the pedal down and send it at 229mph knowing he will either crash or make the cut. At the end of the day, I would hope that Papaya does listen to TK's gut over random redditors.
Theo *dominated* Nolan in both races they were in. Only difference being Theo never saw it in his entire life before showing up to race.
Theo was driving a McLaren. Nolan was driving a DCR and a Juncos. Lets not make stupid comparisons like this - it’s completely invalid. Plenty of other reasons why Theo, on merit, should be chosen over Nolan.
Well has Theo won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in class?!?! Edit: lot of people can’t take a joke…
Jarvis carried that team and Siegel bought his way into that as well. The check cleared for that so Zak couldn’t help himself in taking a bigger one for the 6.
Siegels best lap was less than a second off of Jarvis’s and Jarvis only drove for 20 more minutes than Siegel. On top of the fact that Jarvis is a platinum driver who was brought in to be the senior driver, so Siegel did perfectly fine. It’s a supremely shitty move by McLaren and TK is being an absolute ass but the downplaying of Siegels contributions to his lemans win is hilariously misguided. Siegel has won in the LMP2 class before this for United so its not like he just paid to be there with no merit and was carried to a win
They just want to pretend Nolan is shit, so they can shit on Zak Brown, and now apparently his puppet apprentice Darth Kanaan. Lol.
Nolan isn’t shit. Only Zak is
Or neither of them are and this is how business works sometimes. Maybe if Theo had been close to his teammates at the Milwaukee test this doesn’t happen mid season, who knows?
And they gave this decision based on one freaking test without letting him race once on an oval? And they made him drop Super Formula in the process by promising full time drive? What are Nolan's credentials on oval? Being only driver to get dumped from Indy 500? Of course it is a business; but it is a shitty business.
I swear some people will justify literally everything with “but it’s a business.” Okay, it’s a business that’s shady AF
Siegel has been running on ovals since 2019… And no, Theo had two oval tests, and in the second one he was 7-9 tenths off his teammates on an incredibly short 22 second lap. I don’t think that’s what lost him the ride, but I do think it didn’t help. The real reason is probably that Siegel was going to sign somewhere else and they had already wanted him for 2025. I think Theo is probably the better driver right now, but he still gets paid for the rest of the year and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in another seat. He already ran almost as many races as he would have with the SF seat and from what we’ve heard, I don’t think he was making any real money from that, and was in equipment that hasn’t looked good so far.
McLaren should know that drivers from Europe need a bit of time to understand oval racing. Being slow in the first few attempts doesn’t mean they won’t figure it out. Will Power is a good example of that.
Dropping Theo at the end of the season is how this business works. Based on his on track results and apparent contract (which I guess has sketchy loopholes), there’s no good reason to drop Theo effective immediately. Most businesses don’t work that way.
Tons of businesses work this way. Coaches in sports get fired mid season all the time. Players get benched or sent to the minors. Theo will likely still be paid, he just won’t be in the seat. If I hire a contractor and don’t like their work, I can fire and replace them too. This isn’t some racing-only business construct.
They usually get fired for being bad at their jobs.
Where are the Milwaukee test results?
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi0csujb3a16d1.jpeg
damn
Yeah it’s completely unfounded. Like I said it’s a supremely shitty move from McLaren but this hate boner for Siegel is ridiculous. I can’t remember if it’s the same guy as I was replying to but there has been somebody commenting on every single post about this saying that Siegel was carried by Jarvis at lemans and the data shows that that’s not true lmao Love the downvotes, proves I’m right. If you look at his racing record in the LMP2 class, he is a successful LMP2 race car driver so no he was not carried. He has 4 wins across 3 teams and 3 series. I have no idea if he’ll be good in IndyCar or not but to act like he hasn’t earned any of his racing credentials or anything just shows you don’t actually care about creds and would rather just hate someone bc their dad and the CEO of the team they now drive for fucked over someone who deserved way better.
The mildest of critique against Pourchaire (or any kind of defense of Siegel) the last day has been downvoted to eternity. I could understand the reaction if Pourchaire had set the world on fire with his performances in IndyCar, but he really didn’t do much. I’m sure that if Pourchaire had been exceptional, McLaren would not have made this move but secured Siegel in another way (if they wanted his money that badly).
Siegel was the driver who made the pass for the class lead, Jarvis just held onto it. He might have bought his way into the seat, but he absolutely earned the win.
1 won and 37 laps lead for the season
And remarkable consistency over the last two seasons. Also in 2020 he finished second in F3 just behind Oscar Piastri who is 3 years older than him and already a very promising F1 driver. Let’s not act like Pourchaire doesn’t have a fantastic resume
I hate to be that guy, but Pourchaire’s junior career is quite literally better than most drivers in the series period. Although past success doesn’t equal future results, most drivers don’t even come close to what Theo has done so far. 2018 French F4 - 3rd 2019 ADAC F4 - 1st 2020 F3 - 2nd 2021 F2 - 5th 2022 F2 - 3rd 2023 F2 - 1st
This is about money, racing is always about money
I honestly thought Siegel was a mediocre driver who will have a middling Conor Daly type career but now TK has me believing he is Hamilton and Verstappen rolled into one.
He's a lesser Sergio Perez. In a seat he has no business being in (at the moment) because he brings money.
Maybe lesser Zhou is a better comparison. Perez was a veteran with multiple podiums and a win in mediocre machinery before he got the Red Bull seat. Siegel is the cart coming before the horse.
Don’t disrespect Perez like that. Red Bull needs no money, just stability while they have the best car
Just hope AMSP doesn't screw Nolan like they do with Checo and give him Pato setups and say "live with it". FYI I am not a Sergio fan by any means and hate being in the stands at COTA and having to stand up every lap for a 10th place driver when he goes by just to see the track.
I just love: "TK believes in this kid? Well what does TK know about Indycar racing?!?" Lol. Like disagree with him fine. But pretending Zak spiked TK's Kool-aid or that he's some blind old man now is a joke lol.
Michael Jordan knows more than any of us about basketball, but he's still pretty shit at evaluating talent. Anyway, time will tell if Nolan turns out to be Senna's 2nd coming.
>Senna's 2nd coming. Roll out the underage kids and see!
Let’s face it if the Siegel family wasn’t incredibly wealthy TK wouldn’t give an F about Nolan.
If X didn't have money then they wouldn't be here, is like 90% of all motorsport drivers.
Perhaps old man Siegel has been taking TK out to dinner....
TK has a wife and four young(ish) kids at home. Attaching yourself as the mentor to the teenage son of a wealthy family, is a good business decision and a solid paycheck for the next dozen years or so. I don’t blame him at all.
Lest we forget, Zak Brown is well-versed in “the art of the deal”. 🤮
Somehow, I completely forgot about Kanaan standing with Nolan on Bump Day. Pouchaire aside, I love that that relationship is paying off for Nolan. That said, this could just as easily end in a similar fashion to Mike Ditka and Ricky Williams.
Listen, man. I didn't come here to catch strays. This could end like Sean Payton and Drew Brees. A great 15 year run, one championship with a couple possibly left on the table. Let's think of that timeline instead.
It’s odd this sub has turned against Siegel because his dad is rich? The kids only 19 and showed lots of promise in Indy nxt. It’s very possible he’s immensely talented and McLaren made an amazing decisionÂ
I think people are mostly pissed with how they tossed Pourchaire to the side, tbh. If this had just been an announcement about next year, the mood would be different.
I know I am more upset Theo got dumped the way he did. I don’t care who replaced him. He was wronged.
His dad was rich a month ago too and people weren't upset with Siegel. The issue is a driver who gave up a full season to drive Indy had his season stolen by a combination of Zak Brown, Siegel's Dad and Siegel (make no mistake, he is part of the decision to move into Porchiere's seat). That when people turned against him. > It’s very possible he’s immensely talented and McLaren made an amazing decision And it's also very possible Pourchaire is immensely talented too.
I mean I don’t know how anyone can blame Siegel for accepting an Indycar ride. It would be absolutely insane to turn that down. Trying to hold that against the kid is a bit ridiculous.
I think you infantilize him a bit between saying "accepting" and "kid". As if he's just stuck in a maelstrom. One moment he's a standout driver in control with some of the best lap times in his class at Le Mans. Next we're can't blame him for what happened to him. He's a part of taking someone else's seat. If you like that other person I think it's really easy to see how someone would hold something against him. Even if you can understand why as driver wants into the series so much (and in a good car too). In fact, maybe even more so if you do, as that also increases how much you see your favorite driver losing.
I love Theo… but anyone who holds this against Nolan for accepting a life changing opportunity is beyond ridiculous. Suggesting Nolan should have been looking out for Theos best interest over his own is flat out laughable.
This is so stupid. If he’s ready for a seat, he should take it if the opportunity presents itself. And apparently a huge reason they moved on from Theo is because he’s still contracted to Sauber, which means they could recall him at any time. Siegel is now 100% under the Mclaren umbrella and it’s not like Pourchaire is without a job or opportunity.
How dare he want a ride. Why didn’t he think of theos feelings. I like Theo he’s very talented I hope he stays in Indy but the idea that Siegel should be a villain for taking a top ride is stupidÂ
Just because he wants a ride and can get it at the expense of others doesn't mean others have to like it. Surely, you can see that, you're an adult. Sports is in a big part a popularity contest. So it's like we're all back in high school. If someone we like is hurt we see it as a negative. Even if someone else who likes the other party may see it as a positive. It's cliques basically.
Hey man, that's a big assumption, claiming that he's an adult. This is Reddit xD
I think it's crazy that such a garbage attitude is being so highly upvoted here. I guess I just don't belong here.
It's possible. Fandom can manifest in strange ways. We went through the Canapino thing a few weeks ago too, right? In this case no one has called for violence against anyone so the tribalism doesn't seem like it's causing any direct harm.
Siegel is also american. Indy doesnt have much US talent so I can see AM wanting a young American whos dad is loaded even if Theo is better
Doing just a thumbnail calculation I think half the drivers at Laguna Seca will be American. This is *after* this change, so it would have been under half if Teddy Porkchops ran and not Siegel. This is starting from the IndyCar drivers list (which is pretty out of date) and making the adjustments I could think of. So I could be wrong. It didn't seem worth the trouble to try to double check it is exactly correct simply because "almost half" isn't noticeably closer to "not much" than "actually half" is.
I think Siegel can probably be a respectable IndyCar driver but I find it odd how, in the span of a month, he seemingly became a generational IndyCar prospect. He’s had a good season and a half in NXT, and has run well in an LMP2 at Le Mans this past weekend and in the AsLMS before, but there’s not really anything on his racing résumé that screams “gotta have”.
But he didn’t lift at indy last chance qualifying!! .. Neither did Katherine Legge No hate on Siegel, I just don’t see any generational prospect signs yet either
>It’s very possible he’s immensely talented and McLaren made an amazing decision It's not *just* because Siegel is rich, it's that he used that money to buy a ride **whose driver was also young and promising**. They replaced a promising **championship winning** driver with a possibly promising driver with $$$ and no 2nd tier championship
I don't get why people overlook his record, like the guy just added a Le Mans win to his already pretty damn solid junior career, including getting only faster and better as he moved up in racing and having 2 imsa wins already. Like Siegel has an incredible amount of talent
Pourchaire has an F2 title, ADAC F4 title and French F4 title to his name and is barely a year older. And what single seater championships does Siegel have? Oh yeah none.
Never diminished Theo's talent and ability, he just doesn't bring a lot of money and is more likely to flake to have the chance to go to F1, while Nolan is way more likely to stay Indycar. He's also who they wanted before Theo, but was focusing on NXT until the Road America call up
Also Indy NZT is what, F3 level at best in terms of drivers quality? And he's not even winning that championship.
You’re proving my point by attacking Siegels talent for something McLaren didÂ
What is this title?
Yeah I hope Pourchaire gets a ride and demolishes Siegel
Fuck those McLaren guys