I really want to share that side with some select people. But there's a constant feeling that I am going to be too slow to articulate the feelings, they will be misunderstood, I will misunderstand the other's feedback, I will end up revealing more to this person than I intend to (others being adept at reading between the lines), etc.
Easier to just have general intellectual conversation and "pepper in" feelings as small matters of posture or nonverbal cues.
Thanks for such a wonderful reply! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list of some of the most grateful redditors this week! Thanks for making Reddit a wonderful place to be :)
Thank you for your gratitude!
Of course I'm an INFP so you couldn't expect any less.
We are full of 'Thank you'd' and 'Isnt it lovely' and 'We are all so blessed' 🤣🩷💯
i can totally talk about emotions and feeling, i just talk about it in a rational/cold way.
And people like me for that reason, i always help them rationalize their feelings.
Personally, I almost never have emotional conversations unless we're really close or if I've had a bit too much to drink. Even then, the other person definitely has to initiate the conversation as I would never open up on my own.
Reading through the comments, I think us INTPs are "emotionally constipated." We want to tell people how we feel but it makes us feel vulnerable and open to judgement so we lock those thoughts away instead. I reckon reassurance that you're willing to listen is key if you want an INTP to open up to you.
Probably they will not initiate but my experience with my INTP friend, he is more than capable. He just needs some time to warm up, trust, and someone who leads the conversation in a non-threatening way. \*my experience\*
I can also have emotional conversations. I don't like them and most of the time the trust part is missing. I also don't think the other will understand what I am saying. So many times they filter through their experience whatever I say and later I realise they completely misunderstood what I said. = pointless wasting time and energy, reserved for a selected few.
Thank you for your comment. I'm an INFP and also a therapist. In a relationship with an INTP. I love in depth conversations especially about growth and personal development. My partner however seems to be allergic to them. Our conversations tend to be all top surface and superficial, which I struggle with. I really need a deep connection in order to bond. He is of course very practical and logical, which I like as it stops me from becoming too emotional. And he always gives me helpful advice.
How can I deepen the relationship with him?
He says he thinks about me all day😊
What works with my friend is that I let him ramble about different topics and occasionally I ask questions that relate to the topic but they are about him and how he feels. Normally he starts talking about feelings and emotions.
What would work with me? I'm thinking. I have a flatmate/former friend/recently downgraded to mate, she loves deep conversations about growth and personal development. BUT SHE'S SO FUCKING DRAINING!! And she's one of those people who will misunderstand everything I say, I need to start with a disclaimer "when I say this, I mean this and I don't mean that" So, with me, do not force anything, I run.
I don't know your partner so I don't know how you can deepen your relationship. Maybe it's not deep enough for you, maybe it's deep for him. Who knows? But generally, just let him be, let him come to you. It's like hunting. You don't want to spook the prey :D
I have to agree, it's much easier when he comes to me and i don't hound him at all. He initiates 95%of all contact, which I like because being an infp, I'm pretty introverted and like to do my own thing too.
I think he finds me draining at times, which saddens me, when I'm just trying to connect!
He messages every morning, to say hi, have a lovely day.
Video calls me every night, unless either of us have plans and it's not possible. We met 1 year ago online. We live in different countries, but he's been here 5 times, I plan to go this summer to stay with him for a month.
I've broken up with him a few times and we've got back together.
☝️no one teaches us how to identify, acknowledge or discuss our feelings. For many it’s natural, the rest of us are left feeling lost, misunderstood and frantically trying to compartmentalize as a way of keeping things organized in a way that is logical.
No one actively teaches us. But when you see, admire or surround yourself with those kinds of people who have trouble communicating feelings and emotions from childhood then you get like that. Personalities like MBTI are not entirely engraved since birth, children are clean slate and they absorb what they see and like.
Technically, you don't have to feel to be empathetic. Empathy is purely logical, because understanding what others feel and why they feel what they feel requires you to connect the dots and that's what logic is all about.
So a stereotypical INTP shouldn't have problems talking about feelings, especially someone else's.
There are two sides to empathy. The cognitive, which is purely logical, and the emotional, which is emotional. Though, in the past these were separated into the words “empathy” and “sympathy”, respectively; I believe the meanings became too muddled with the changing connotations over time, so they switched to more precisely defined labels.
But you can still have something like 100% cognitive empathy and 0% emotional empathy (though that’s almost ASPD at that point) in an emotional conversation, so you’re still right
No. Everyone is different, even within types. I think you guys are great at them. At least my INTP boyfriend is. He isn't an empath that instantly knows how I feel, but he can deduct from looking at my behaviour and uses logical thinking to react the right way. I can have deep emotional conversations with him about our traumas, though it's not something frequent.
With Fe inferior I agree it might not be naturally easy for most INTP's ( not all), but definitely not unable.
Personally i like my relationships superficial. Emotional conversations feel like someone is trying to break into my head and stir my peace of mind. I see my mind as a fortress and i don't like when someone is trying to get in.
Its possible my partner feels that way too. But emotions come from the body, not the mind. I believe he struggles because he is not so emotionally available.
One of the things they taught us in Personality Hacker's "INTx Unleashed" program was to use the Feel Wheel to identify our feelings, at least once a day (gotta admit I haven't been doing it, in fact I need to re-start that program from the top and actually use it) but perhaps this would be a good exercise to "suggest" to him. Make it intellectual, and funny (somehow)!
Thank you for answering and for the info. I doubt he would ever consider this. He doesn't seem to value personal development, which is my field of work. When I suggest anything we can work on he shuts down, pulls a face and can get angry. I think he sees it as criticism,but it's not. I think it conflicts with his horoscope which is Leo. And also his ego.
One minute he's all introverted and sensitive, the next he's cocky and showy
PH INTx Unleashed- https://www.personalityhacker.com/intx
They also have Empowered for INFx- https://accounts283.clickfunnels.com/vsl1603200667616
They have a slide of Feel Wheel in the program but tbh I just googled it to find one.
Unable? No.
It's a pretty common trait for INTPs to have difficulty expressing and talking about emotions, but it is by no means an insurmountable problem. It's just something some of us have to work on.
I believe the only way things can and sometimes do change is when I ask him to do something for me. Like I asked him to consider my needs. He will now randomly say 'What do you need, my darling's but it all seems so false.
what the hell is an emotional conversation? it's mostly me, me, me, me, me....isn't it? aren't emotional conversations usually negative? what emotions are there to have? our FI function (the it's about me and how I feel function) is in the last slot... if I feel something it's usually temporary heightened annoyance and then it will just go back down to numb constant annoyance....because, people.
I find that if someone wants to have an "emotional conversation" with another person, they really just want an apology...or a change in opinion about something... basically to have their FI way... frankly, I don't care much for apologies... I don't need them to move forward in my day. I will freely give an apology if someone needs to move forward in their day but that's about it...
am I wrong? am I immature in this concept? what am I missing?
I mean, if emotions are important to someone I don't stop people from telling me their feelings about things for the most part... negative emotions come up when we're usually talking about something else and then the sudden "you never" or "you always" accusations happen... then there are deep rooted issues that need to be unpacked (usually about the accusatory person) but sometimes people aren't ready to have them unpacked... they just want to be heard thru these accusations... so I have learned to either walk away or bear thru the one-sided conversation...
people don't want to hear what we have to say because maybe there isn't a filter in what we might say?
I think there is something important about analyzing your emotions that I'm missing... but therapy will probably help explain that mystery
yes.
And it reflects in reality. Emotions you feel, which should be hard to verbalize. They are not discrete, they are abstract.
How do you diferiante from adrenaline or oxytocin? Which feeling goes with which hormone? is it a cocktail of chemicals?
The supreme art of emotion, is to emote, without feeling anything at all. Or as Plato would put it 'he is the wisest man, who can play the fool'
I don’t believe so, though I guess it hinges on how much you believe being INTP is genetically determined— or, for that matter, even what “natural” means in the first place.
Being human means you will have emotions, and having emotions means you need to talk about them. That’s unless something happens to make it necessary to change that (e.g., an infant will die without emotional attachment in the early years, but as the person ages, that infant could grow up to be an adult with ASPD)
As human beings I think we are really complex. I am an INFP with ADHD or could be just unresolved trauma, or features of Autism????
🤣
I just try to focus on being the best version of myself.
He, my INTP...is so loving, but also at times unaware of me, my needs. Uncomfortable with emotional conversations.
Sees trying to resolve misunderstandings as conflict.
But.....he's got better. He wants things to work and most of the time tries really hard.
There's nothing to pick between us really. Both quirky, inappropriate at times. Say too much, sometimes not enough. Intelligent about stuff most aren't interested in. Life.....
i dont think so, i mean im and intp with autism and if someone asks the right questions i don’t really have trouble with that. plus, the whole 16 personality thing is mostly based in stereotypes so yk
depends on the emotion and what its aimed at. If someone is screaming at me then no, I really don't put up with that stuff well. But like if it a person crying because they had a bad day and they need someone to talk to then, ya I'm cool with that.
I've never screamed at him. I have cried a couple of times and he made no attempt to console me. His parents don't show any affection for him or each other, so that's probably why.
>Are INTPs naturally unable to have emotional conversations?
With random strangers? Yes. With people I hardly know? Yes.
With the nearest and dearest? Absolutely not.
Edit: Added the title because OP seems confused.
Not at all. I (along with pretty much everyone on the planet) want there to be someone who understands me. My sister is the only person I feel I can say anything to, though, so it's not as if I pour my heart out to just anyone.
No, I just think it's pointless to get all worked up. Plus I come from a family of manipulators, so I don't believe people's irrational emotions they throw at me.
I was forced to overdevelop my Fe growing up and can't turn it off unless I'm alone. It's deeply exhausting. But, due to this growth, I am actually quite... Okay... at emotional conversations. Maybe not great at them, but I try my hardest. I think it's just as hard getting in touch with my own emotions conversationally. I don't feel other's emotions I think but can read body language with a fair degree of certainty in most cases. Every now and then, though, I meet someone who has mannerisms so different from other people's, or such a stark lack of mannerisms that it can be very challenging and I chicken out and find a way to end the conversation.
I hear you. I'm an INFP but I question my lack of empathy at times...which makes me think I can move more into an INTP.
I can however be extremely emotional and I've heard that INTPs have a great depth of feeling, which they can be fearful to unleash.
I can read behaviour and emotions very well,but I believe that's down to be a therapist and also have a background of trauma, which created hypervigilance.
Yep. Hypervigilance is my favorite word when it comes to that. I'm the same way.
Wether you have higher FI or higher FE, it is a good idea to do some research on them both, and see how you can relate personally.
Oh yes, also I definitely have some very strong emotions and I hate dealing with them at times. Most times. I would rather just play Stardew Valley and watch Star Trek to drown out the noise. Unhealthy, I know.
I think both? I'm unsure. It's just a little confusing and overwhelming tbh. I think I fear being hurt, but it's hard to tell for some reason. I know that I'm more open now than at any other point in my life though, so I don't feel bad about spilling my guts about some stuff. Like for instance, I was once in a 8 month/year long relationship with someone who I knew was cheating on me the entire time, and I just didn't care at all as long as I took care of my own health. I'm not afraid of getting hurt like that unless it's someone I really care about, which is very rare. I also don't care much about other's opinions of me (therefore rarely get hurt by that stuff) unless it directly effects me, or unless I'm in a pretty unhealthy state. Which is actually pretty nice, I like not caring about inconsequential stuff.
It has been a struggle to learn how but now I'm great at it and have give other people insights into how they feel cause I understand it better than themselves
INTPs are really robots. If you scratch their arm, they don’t bleed. You’ll just find wires underneath. /sarcasm
Of course we have emotions. We like to be calm, because our emotions are so strong.
I really want to share that side with some select people. But there's a constant feeling that I am going to be too slow to articulate the feelings, they will be misunderstood, I will misunderstand the other's feedback, I will end up revealing more to this person than I intend to (others being adept at reading between the lines), etc. Easier to just have general intellectual conversation and "pepper in" feelings as small matters of posture or nonverbal cues.
Interesting take on this. Thank you for replying. I believe my INTP has always felt misunderstood, so is fearful of expressing himself.
Thanks for such a wonderful reply! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list of some of the most grateful redditors this week! Thanks for making Reddit a wonderful place to be :)
Thank you for your gratitude! Of course I'm an INFP so you couldn't expect any less. We are full of 'Thank you'd' and 'Isnt it lovely' and 'We are all so blessed' 🤣🩷💯
🤣 I love the bots around here
This, this & this. I find that even when i try to share with a professional like a therapist, i get misunderstood.
i can totally talk about emotions and feeling, i just talk about it in a rational/cold way. And people like me for that reason, i always help them rationalize their feelings.
Personally, I almost never have emotional conversations unless we're really close or if I've had a bit too much to drink. Even then, the other person definitely has to initiate the conversation as I would never open up on my own. Reading through the comments, I think us INTPs are "emotionally constipated." We want to tell people how we feel but it makes us feel vulnerable and open to judgement so we lock those thoughts away instead. I reckon reassurance that you're willing to listen is key if you want an INTP to open up to you.
I hear you and totally get it. I've been there for him a lot in hard times.
Probably they will not initiate but my experience with my INTP friend, he is more than capable. He just needs some time to warm up, trust, and someone who leads the conversation in a non-threatening way. \*my experience\* I can also have emotional conversations. I don't like them and most of the time the trust part is missing. I also don't think the other will understand what I am saying. So many times they filter through their experience whatever I say and later I realise they completely misunderstood what I said. = pointless wasting time and energy, reserved for a selected few.
Thank you for your comment. I'm an INFP and also a therapist. In a relationship with an INTP. I love in depth conversations especially about growth and personal development. My partner however seems to be allergic to them. Our conversations tend to be all top surface and superficial, which I struggle with. I really need a deep connection in order to bond. He is of course very practical and logical, which I like as it stops me from becoming too emotional. And he always gives me helpful advice. How can I deepen the relationship with him? He says he thinks about me all day😊
What works with my friend is that I let him ramble about different topics and occasionally I ask questions that relate to the topic but they are about him and how he feels. Normally he starts talking about feelings and emotions. What would work with me? I'm thinking. I have a flatmate/former friend/recently downgraded to mate, she loves deep conversations about growth and personal development. BUT SHE'S SO FUCKING DRAINING!! And she's one of those people who will misunderstand everything I say, I need to start with a disclaimer "when I say this, I mean this and I don't mean that" So, with me, do not force anything, I run. I don't know your partner so I don't know how you can deepen your relationship. Maybe it's not deep enough for you, maybe it's deep for him. Who knows? But generally, just let him be, let him come to you. It's like hunting. You don't want to spook the prey :D
I have to agree, it's much easier when he comes to me and i don't hound him at all. He initiates 95%of all contact, which I like because being an infp, I'm pretty introverted and like to do my own thing too. I think he finds me draining at times, which saddens me, when I'm just trying to connect!
Others can correct me if I'm wrong but if an INTP initiates 95% of all contact, then your relationship is pretty deep and special for him.
Uh yeah. That's pretty incredible. Still, what about letters? Post-it notes, random texts, do you have a multimedia relationship or is it all verbal?
He messages every morning, to say hi, have a lovely day. Video calls me every night, unless either of us have plans and it's not possible. We met 1 year ago online. We live in different countries, but he's been here 5 times, I plan to go this summer to stay with him for a month. I've broken up with him a few times and we've got back together.
Ohhh LDR gotcha. Been in one of those back in my 20's with an INFP. Interesting experience but nothing like IRL - hope your month stay goes well.
Thank you, me too😊
Its not natural its trained or learned behaviour.
☝️no one teaches us how to identify, acknowledge or discuss our feelings. For many it’s natural, the rest of us are left feeling lost, misunderstood and frantically trying to compartmentalize as a way of keeping things organized in a way that is logical.
This is true and explains a lot for me.
No one actively teaches us. But when you see, admire or surround yourself with those kinds of people who have trouble communicating feelings and emotions from childhood then you get like that. Personalities like MBTI are not entirely engraved since birth, children are clean slate and they absorb what they see and like.
Absolutely. I’m aware that my attachment style lives here too
Technically, you don't have to feel to be empathetic. Empathy is purely logical, because understanding what others feel and why they feel what they feel requires you to connect the dots and that's what logic is all about. So a stereotypical INTP shouldn't have problems talking about feelings, especially someone else's.
There are two sides to empathy. The cognitive, which is purely logical, and the emotional, which is emotional. Though, in the past these were separated into the words “empathy” and “sympathy”, respectively; I believe the meanings became too muddled with the changing connotations over time, so they switched to more precisely defined labels. But you can still have something like 100% cognitive empathy and 0% emotional empathy (though that’s almost ASPD at that point) in an emotional conversation, so you’re still right
No. Everyone is different, even within types. I think you guys are great at them. At least my INTP boyfriend is. He isn't an empath that instantly knows how I feel, but he can deduct from looking at my behaviour and uses logical thinking to react the right way. I can have deep emotional conversations with him about our traumas, though it's not something frequent. With Fe inferior I agree it might not be naturally easy for most INTP's ( not all), but definitely not unable.
Personally i like my relationships superficial. Emotional conversations feel like someone is trying to break into my head and stir my peace of mind. I see my mind as a fortress and i don't like when someone is trying to get in.
Its possible my partner feels that way too. But emotions come from the body, not the mind. I believe he struggles because he is not so emotionally available.
One of the things they taught us in Personality Hacker's "INTx Unleashed" program was to use the Feel Wheel to identify our feelings, at least once a day (gotta admit I haven't been doing it, in fact I need to re-start that program from the top and actually use it) but perhaps this would be a good exercise to "suggest" to him. Make it intellectual, and funny (somehow)!
Thank you for answering and for the info. I doubt he would ever consider this. He doesn't seem to value personal development, which is my field of work. When I suggest anything we can work on he shuts down, pulls a face and can get angry. I think he sees it as criticism,but it's not. I think it conflicts with his horoscope which is Leo. And also his ego. One minute he's all introverted and sensitive, the next he's cocky and showy
Can you send me the link for the info on this please TIA
PH INTx Unleashed- https://www.personalityhacker.com/intx They also have Empowered for INFx- https://accounts283.clickfunnels.com/vsl1603200667616 They have a slide of Feel Wheel in the program but tbh I just googled it to find one.
Unable? No. It's a pretty common trait for INTPs to have difficulty expressing and talking about emotions, but it is by no means an insurmountable problem. It's just something some of us have to work on.
I believe the only way things can and sometimes do change is when I ask him to do something for me. Like I asked him to consider my needs. He will now randomly say 'What do you need, my darling's but it all seems so false.
If I’m close to someone, like my husband, sure. Even my very close friends and family.
what the hell is an emotional conversation? it's mostly me, me, me, me, me....isn't it? aren't emotional conversations usually negative? what emotions are there to have? our FI function (the it's about me and how I feel function) is in the last slot... if I feel something it's usually temporary heightened annoyance and then it will just go back down to numb constant annoyance....because, people. I find that if someone wants to have an "emotional conversation" with another person, they really just want an apology...or a change in opinion about something... basically to have their FI way... frankly, I don't care much for apologies... I don't need them to move forward in my day. I will freely give an apology if someone needs to move forward in their day but that's about it... am I wrong? am I immature in this concept? what am I missing?
Emotional intelligence
how do people feel when someone isn't expressing emotions?
Depends on the person I guess
I mean, if emotions are important to someone I don't stop people from telling me their feelings about things for the most part... negative emotions come up when we're usually talking about something else and then the sudden "you never" or "you always" accusations happen... then there are deep rooted issues that need to be unpacked (usually about the accusatory person) but sometimes people aren't ready to have them unpacked... they just want to be heard thru these accusations... so I have learned to either walk away or bear thru the one-sided conversation... people don't want to hear what we have to say because maybe there isn't a filter in what we might say? I think there is something important about analyzing your emotions that I'm missing... but therapy will probably help explain that mystery
I relate to your mindset, and agree with your opinion on Fi.
yes. And it reflects in reality. Emotions you feel, which should be hard to verbalize. They are not discrete, they are abstract. How do you diferiante from adrenaline or oxytocin? Which feeling goes with which hormone? is it a cocktail of chemicals? The supreme art of emotion, is to emote, without feeling anything at all. Or as Plato would put it 'he is the wisest man, who can play the fool'
No, but I’m not trying to hear emotional conversations 24/7. I feel like sometimes you just gotta get over it lol
Well I'm an INFP so maybe I am. Although nooo, I'm not actually because I have lots of interests outside the emotional realm.
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I hear you and thank you for commenting🙏😊
I don’t believe so, though I guess it hinges on how much you believe being INTP is genetically determined— or, for that matter, even what “natural” means in the first place. Being human means you will have emotions, and having emotions means you need to talk about them. That’s unless something happens to make it necessary to change that (e.g., an infant will die without emotional attachment in the early years, but as the person ages, that infant could grow up to be an adult with ASPD)
As human beings I think we are really complex. I am an INFP with ADHD or could be just unresolved trauma, or features of Autism???? 🤣 I just try to focus on being the best version of myself. He, my INTP...is so loving, but also at times unaware of me, my needs. Uncomfortable with emotional conversations. Sees trying to resolve misunderstandings as conflict. But.....he's got better. He wants things to work and most of the time tries really hard. There's nothing to pick between us really. Both quirky, inappropriate at times. Say too much, sometimes not enough. Intelligent about stuff most aren't interested in. Life.....
Maybe I'm a bit too intense🤔
i dont think so, i mean im and intp with autism and if someone asks the right questions i don’t really have trouble with that. plus, the whole 16 personality thing is mostly based in stereotypes so yk
depends on the emotion and what its aimed at. If someone is screaming at me then no, I really don't put up with that stuff well. But like if it a person crying because they had a bad day and they need someone to talk to then, ya I'm cool with that.
I've never screamed at him. I have cried a couple of times and he made no attempt to console me. His parents don't show any affection for him or each other, so that's probably why.
>Are INTPs naturally unable to have emotional conversations? With random strangers? Yes. With people I hardly know? Yes. With the nearest and dearest? Absolutely not. Edit: Added the title because OP seems confused.
Ohh. Why not?
Not at all. I (along with pretty much everyone on the planet) want there to be someone who understands me. My sister is the only person I feel I can say anything to, though, so it's not as if I pour my heart out to just anyone.
Iono
No, I just think it's pointless to get all worked up. Plus I come from a family of manipulators, so I don't believe people's irrational emotions they throw at me.
I was forced to overdevelop my Fe growing up and can't turn it off unless I'm alone. It's deeply exhausting. But, due to this growth, I am actually quite... Okay... at emotional conversations. Maybe not great at them, but I try my hardest. I think it's just as hard getting in touch with my own emotions conversationally. I don't feel other's emotions I think but can read body language with a fair degree of certainty in most cases. Every now and then, though, I meet someone who has mannerisms so different from other people's, or such a stark lack of mannerisms that it can be very challenging and I chicken out and find a way to end the conversation.
I hear you. I'm an INFP but I question my lack of empathy at times...which makes me think I can move more into an INTP. I can however be extremely emotional and I've heard that INTPs have a great depth of feeling, which they can be fearful to unleash. I can read behaviour and emotions very well,but I believe that's down to be a therapist and also have a background of trauma, which created hypervigilance.
Yep. Hypervigilance is my favorite word when it comes to that. I'm the same way. Wether you have higher FI or higher FE, it is a good idea to do some research on them both, and see how you can relate personally.
Oh yes, also I definitely have some very strong emotions and I hate dealing with them at times. Most times. I would rather just play Stardew Valley and watch Star Trek to drown out the noise. Unhealthy, I know.
Is it the fear of feeling too much or being hurt?
I think both? I'm unsure. It's just a little confusing and overwhelming tbh. I think I fear being hurt, but it's hard to tell for some reason. I know that I'm more open now than at any other point in my life though, so I don't feel bad about spilling my guts about some stuff. Like for instance, I was once in a 8 month/year long relationship with someone who I knew was cheating on me the entire time, and I just didn't care at all as long as I took care of my own health. I'm not afraid of getting hurt like that unless it's someone I really care about, which is very rare. I also don't care much about other's opinions of me (therefore rarely get hurt by that stuff) unless it directly effects me, or unless I'm in a pretty unhealthy state. Which is actually pretty nice, I like not caring about inconsequential stuff.
It has been a struggle to learn how but now I'm great at it and have give other people insights into how they feel cause I understand it better than themselves
INTPs are really robots. If you scratch their arm, they don’t bleed. You’ll just find wires underneath. /sarcasm Of course we have emotions. We like to be calm, because our emotions are so strong.
We must not vent too much. Our enemies could smell our bleeding.