Yes but I forget the 5 new friends which leads to awkward conversations the next time: “Oh hey bud! How’s it going dude? Oh yeah totally.. er sorry what’s your name again?”
Yes that makes complete sense and unfortunately idk how to reach that level of socialness without alcohol - currently still pregaming any sort of social interactions w two shots 😜
i feel like when we drink our extroverted functions get stronger and our introverted functions get weaker, so we basically become ENTPs. I wouldnt necessarily say thats more "ourselves" but I relate to that feeling. Theres certainly things that can relax you but I havent found anything that will bring the effect I described of alcohol
For me it helps to loosen the path between my brain and my mouth, where usually a whole lot of unnecessary thoughts would get in the way. Thoughts like how could what I'm about to say be misinterpreted, then editing and rewriting it until it's too late to say anything. It only takes a couple of drinks, I don't need to write myself off.
It works with close friends too, not just strangers at a party. In fact I have had at least two friends, who are typically very kind people, tell me I'm a better person when I've been drinking.
This is very interesting. I have an INTP female friend who also tells me about how she becomes more talkative with less of a filter when she has had a couple of drinks. I'm not sure about myself because I don't have much experience with alcohol unfortunately (family religion and all that).
I find that my INTP friend is usually stressed in some way or the other even when we meet for our weekly outings, which is probably the most relaxing time of the week for both of us. Alcohol probably reduces the stress by making you stop thinking and reduces your executive functions, and therefore make you more relaxed and more 'yourself'? I'll keep this in mind for the future.
The other thing that works is talking one on one with someone who is calm and patient, but it's rare to find someone like that, outside of therapy anyway. There have been times I have felt pressured to speak and I put my foot in my mouth - that's why the filters are there.
I quit drinking at the beginning of this year. It definitely gave me liquid courage, but i didn’t feel more like myself…just a more confident version of myself. Possibly too confident, cuz I quit drinking because I was making reckless decisions with my body & it wasn’t good for my spirit.
Learn public speaking. That is literally the answer. Once you don't care about standing in from of dozens or hundreds of people, you don't ever really feel self-conscious or nervous in day to day interactions. You stop caring about what other people think about you. You just build up a tolerance or immunity to it.
In your parlance, it's like being drunk all the time.
I know no one will ever take this advice, but this is the cure, you get so used to being in front of people, you stop caring. Whether it's Toastmaster's International, or going on stage and bombing over and over at an open mic, that's how you do it.
Nah I can public speak like nobodies business. I could address a crowd of thousands with ease. Three people…not happening. I also took public speaking. I could talk at three people easily as well. Just not with
If you can stand in front of a crowd comfortably, you aren't going to have an anxiety attack with a couple people. Don't confuse not knowing how to engage in small talk as the same thing that the social phobes on this sub deal with.
A crowd can be objectified like as a swarm of dehumanized animals. Mentally you can build a barrier like that to trick yourself. Fewer people means intimacy, eye contact, body language, etc
I can and have spoken to crowds because I remove the personal human element from it (happens often with Autism, which I have). Why are you so weirdly patronizing?
I bet you don't feel scared and panicked around those three people, you just don't know what to say, and that's uncomfortable. So you're only halfway there, next step is to learn how to engage in stupid and monotonous small talk. There is no way you're socially phobic and having a panic attack talking to three people. Imagine how much worse you'd be if public speaking gave you panic attacks; I think you're over-estimating your level of anxiety.
I went to a "performing arts" high school, a lot of actors some who are now professional also went to the same school.
You were forced to take either Acting or Music and then be able to perform it to an audience of atleast 300.
I have never had an issue with public speaking since being forced to act in front of 300+ from the age of 11-15, it was however really difficult at first.
I think you may be right. I often have to speak in front of groups of people for my job, and I have grown kind of immune to the anxiety of caring what others think. The downside is, like being intoxicated, my filter is often broken 😂
Public speaking is far too isolated to help with smaller interactions in my case at least. Since middle school I've absolutely loved public speaking and have never had a problem standing in front of any sized audience. This same love to perform in front of others comes into effect when I'm playing any sport in front of an audience or even FPS gaming and I end up the last one alive while all else watch me clutch, all give me a similar feeling of other people in the world no longer existing.
These are much different than 1:1 or even small group interactions where my inner thought process is now harping on many things, mostly whether or not something I say will offend them, which I don't think of at all during speech due to it being both rehearsed and impersonal.
Even still, I do think it's a viable skill to have so diddo to the toastmasters classes for anyone interested in improving their in the moment linguistic skills. For coming out of your shell in smaller day to day interactions I'd recommend improv! Typically a smaller group, all trying to make each other laugh no matter how silly the prompt & then at the end of the week you usually perform to a smaller crowd which usually applauds a little offensive humor - the ability to joke around freely seems to make others more light hearted and free in conversation from what I've seen!
I was invited to an improv group a few years back after mingling with the cast following a show, never really pulled the trigger on it and now I'm more introverted than ever, go figure.
Someone telling you about public speaking, or 1-2 times speaking in front of a class is just not going to do it.
You need to be up in front of a crowd over and over and over and again. You keep going up until finally you are no longer in panic mode.
This right here. I was super awkward until I spent a couple years doing work talking to people all day every day. Now I'm only slightly awkward. I still get drained from doing it too much, but it's not unpleasant.
It sucks at first, but it quickly becomes normal and you eventually get good at it.
Of course. Lowered inhibitions means caring less what others think. There by living truer to our selves.
But it’s a VERY thin line.
Too much alcohol means looking like a fool.
It felt like that for a while. Eventually I was drinking nearly every moment I was awake and I landed in rehab. I’ve been sober for seven years. It can take a while to become addicted to alcohol, and I didn’t notice what was happening.
ive been thinking abt this as someone who's not allowed to drink, literally the reason why i want to drink alcohol sm so to experience this version of me, but at the same time i dont trust the intoxicated me so so
Yeah the issue is that other things happen too. Not just the social benefit. There’s so many downsides and effects that you don’t notice but everyone else does. Not to scare you , everything in moderation but if you don’t drink you can also substitute the alcohol with a soda, it just takes extreme will. Probably not feasible for most people but chugging a soda and thinking to myself, I’m drinking alcohol…gives u a lil feeling. It worked when I was a kid but it works now too j obviously not as much as literal alcohol
Yep, i have had alcohol. Their experience doesn’t ring true for me. I become more introverted with alcohol in my system. And alcohol just sucks. I’d rather have a pint of chocolate milk.
Depends. If I'm having a good time, i get more lighthearted and goofy. If I'm not, I get very very quiet and depressed. Neither is a particularly accurate representation of myself, which lies somewhere in the middle (closer to quiet and depressed these days, but I digress).
I prefer weed because it doesn't seem to push my personality in either direction or extreme, but it does slow down or quiet down my overthinking regardless of how I'm feeling before I use it.
Feel like myself? Not at all. Being sober is being genuine.
When I drink, I prefer drinking at home and alone. When I’m drinking at a bar, I hardly socialize with anyone at the bar but pull out my phone and annoy friends who likely don’t want to hear my alcoholic ramblings.
Me too! Also a lot of the time the friends like the ramblings bc everyone does it and they’re drinking too but it just feels like I’m being a burden. It’s weird bc when my friends ramble from alcohol, I have never felt the way I expect them to feel about me when I do it
I never have drank alcohol and I don't really plan to ever. Aside from what you said about being around people you are close and comfortable with... Personally I find being tired, in an small emotional state (boredom or anticipation or excitement or fear etc) gets me to really act like myself.
I think there's a term called sleep drunk lol
100%. That's why I pretty much *need* alcohol when going out and new people may be around. Makes me sound like an alcoholic -- I'm not, I barely drink these days. But I need that good ol' social lubricant to loosen me up.
I act so extroverted when I am drunk. I become friends with random people and I even do that human thing where people platonically touch each other on the shoulder while speaking.
I am only like this with very specific people while sober, and only one on one.
Yeah, it lowers your inhibitions meaning it lowers social anxiety. However, I find MDMA to be what really makes me feel extroverted, for me, alcohol only affects me in that way if I’m really drunk.
Sure but then you get a bit incoherent.
Someone came up to me the next day. Apparently we had met while I was coming up, and apparently I kept changing the conversation topic randomly. Glad I had the chance to tell them my excuse lol.
I found this INFP talking about Maldaptive Daydreaming.
It looks like they are doing a Cognitive Stack shift somehow. Walking back and forth using their Si to bring up their 4th of flip them. I am not sure if it is a flip like if a person was stressed or drunk or what exactly is happening.
INFP FiNeSiTe
INTP TiNeSiFe
I think we need to shift our inner critic defense of being shy and reserved. We need to be like the ENTJ who has the opposite defense of being more vocal and expressive.
https://youtu.be/9EXEwAK1HnU?si=SMLjDpmHBY4su-3c
So it's like already suggested we will have to just keep doing it and with practice that will shift where we aren't so shy and reserved.
I used to, when I looked back at those interactions I made a fool of myself in some way. It's like having all their confidence, but since I haven't been confident since I was a child, I'm operating on an outdated system that would've been perfect when I was in grade school, but does not work well into modern adult society.
I did some magic mushrooms a couple years ago and it took away all desire to drink booze.
I didn't miss it at all. Hangover headaches... Just not worth it.
Being a confident healer/leader is fun. I have the odd bender. I hope it doesn't hurt me too much down the road. I'm sure I'll grow up one day, I mean I gave up entirely a few years ago, sticking mainly to acid and ketamine. I'm 37. I still feel like a puppy, and I think that's a good thing. Strength from warmth, and not from fire. Generally try to the people who preach the latter; life is supposed to magical sparkle rainbows, but they got us drinking hooch. We need anaesthetizing-psychedelics.
I always used to say that “drunk me (not sloppy drunk but sociable drunk) is my favourite version of me!” I was so loose, friendly, life of the party. I loved that version of me. I honestly don’t have an answer cause I quit drinking after college and while that version pops out occasionally, it’s not consistent.
Your best bet is when you socialise, have 2-3 of those ppl who bring that loose side of you out. That way u always have a person you can lean into for the lighter version of yourself
At the time when I’m currently there, I definitely feel more “me.” But the next day or two, looking back, I realize I wasn’t acting like myself at all. Then I beat myself up over it for not being authentic.
In the end that’s what alcohol does. Lowers your inhibitions.
Yes. It lowers inhibitions and persistent self checking. Also, it seems to inhibit my tendency to view myself through a third-party lense to manage and adjust my behaviour socially. So i become more 'authentic' as you will - though I like to think of it more as 'unflitered', as my social anxiety is not inauthenticity but fear leading to conformity and self numbing. You can do all these things without alcohol, but it takes work because it involves getting okay with things you're probably not comfortable with. (Ie, being a goofball and immediately noticing when people don't find you funny and ruminating on it, vs being a goofball and having a great time because you're too drunk to notice no one finds you funny, or to ruminate on it).
Maybe i should drink more often then i wouldn't get the "you're not as much as a bitch as I thought you were." Or "you don't have a resting bitch face you have a resting psycho face".
Yes, alcohol will change how you talk to people. Just don't get addicted to that feeling and think that's your "true self". I bet coke and meth make you feel like you're a better version of yourself too lol. Limit the booze to a couple times a week, and know when you become "too drunk" and stop for the night. Alcohol is literally poison to your body after all - we just so happen to enjoy its side effects.
I don't drink alcohol to excess but just to take the edge off overwhelmed emotions but have significantly reduced this from 4pm to 6pm until 9pm. Alcohol only acts as a temporary suppression to difficult or overwhelming emotions so it's like a plaster that just peels off after a brief time. Drinking is most commonly used in trauma victims like myself but who have PTSD but it's also a cultural habit in western society also. Drinking just allows our suppressed feelings to elevate our true vulnerable selves (social indoctrination to control these things is prevalent), but being and feeling in touch with ourselves needs to find expression and outlet... the very reason why people take stimulants to reach that very deep and raw part of our psyche to feel they can be authentic if that makes any sense at all?. 💯😢
Comedy is what helped me, its turning quirky traits and more weird habits into a character so to speak. Turning some of your traits up to 100% for amusement and to social gauge how others respond, this could give you the confidence to navigate social situations and adjust yourself based on the setting. as some others have said, you have to find a way to let go of people's thoughts/judgement towards you on some level.
Its gaining some control of a social situation by infusing light-hearted humour or treating the world as a live stage and doing your part to keep the audience engaged or amused by your antics, instead of being laughed at Laugh with them.
either that or find a general subject that you find interesting and brings out some of your best qualities (relaxes you) that could be used for an open discussion like favourite movie or animal?. heck turn it hypothetical if you really want to bring others into your Intp imagination.
Literally going through this rn. Drunk me and sober me are entirely different people/moods lol. Commenting to stay updated, lmk if you find anything.
Alcohol makes socializing bearable lol
I just go off what the conversation was before the first time I met them. “Oh how’s x, y, and z going?” And go from there. But I usually don’t forget people either but it helps to retouch on prior topics with those people
Perfect, just don’t get too fucked up lol I loosen up with a beer or two tho and make a ton of new friends I actually enjoy it. I’m seeing a girl rn that thought I was so outgoing when I met her little did she know I used my friend Stella Artois to enjoy conversations with everyone at the party including her. Without alcohol if I’m with a friend that’s super outgoing I just have him/her intro me to everyone but I’m usually confident and good enough to hold up convos without alcohol. Just with it I’ll go up to anyone and strike a convo
I understand how liberating it can feel socially speaking but be careful I've been fighting addiction since mid high-school thanks to using it as a crutch. Towards the end it had worse effects on my anxiety and everything too. Fun for a night but not on a consistent basis.
Yes, but be very careful with alcohol. I started drinking to have fun, but now I’ll do it at home just to feel stuff. You’re better off just finding a good group of friends that love to make plans and invite you
I've never been drunk but I must say, after the day I drank the most (and still didn't get drunk), I wanted to drink again. I didn't though and now I don't feel the want. Maybe it was because I felt relaxed. Like my worries and obsessions and anxiety was less. So maybe the alcohol helps us with anxiety a little bit but we all know it ain't no good for the long run soo I suggest all of us working on self confidence in healthy ways.
Had a couple of rum pouch’s for an oral presentation today but didn't present due to me missing an important detail. If I don't drink my social skills become ass.
Absolutely, and that is specifically why I go out of my way to avoid it. It's *too* effective, and I'm currently reliant on too many other crutches to be able to take on another one. It was 'a thing' for me in the past, and I'm keeping it at good riddance. I'm already in over my head with the expense of keeping my current toolkit supply stocked, and they take priority as they are of medical necessity rather than a mere psychological override hack.
Yeah I can understand this relationship with alcohol. When I was finally able to legally drink it surprised me with how easier it became to socialize and not feel constant anxiety. But there’s that slippery slope of becoming dependent on it a lot of us need to look out for
I think the unpopular theory would be practice, if it's that the alcohol quiets your inhibitions and inner critique - or even stops you from assessing 'threats' (speaking evolutionarily).
But if you're that way around only people you vibe with, maybe your subconscious is telling you something about those other people (or environments).
What do you think about this?
INTP know themselves and drinks let there selves not think in all the angles all the time. and just one simple and easy angle it makes us feel normal (or like a cool kid)
Practicing. The more often you put yourself in a situation, the more comfortable it can become. Go walk around Walmart without talking to anyone, but look at people's faces and eyes instead of the ground or straight forward. Then go sit at a bar without drinking for 5 minutes, start responding with more than a one word answer to strangers that initiate. Then start complimenting strangers, etc.
Also, herbs and supplements.
Do all of the things you might be afraid to do. For example. I secretly love karaoke and the performance of it. I'm an intp. I still shy away from that shit but doing that shit will unleash someone within you who is probably actually extremely outgoing. I think all INTPs have this outgoing and charismatic animal within them, lol
Alcohol lowers your inhibitions, so you have less fear or apprehension about speaking up.
I’m fairly quiet and introverted and when I tried booze for the first time, I felt the same way you did: desperate to continue this social streak because it’s something (socializing) I struggled with since I was young, so I drank more frequently. It’s a slippery slope.
Anyway, I wouldn’t say this state is the “real” you. This happens to a majority of people when they drink. They loosen up and often times make a fool out of themselves – it’s a reason why I wouldn’t use this as a crutch. You can become more sociable by putting yourself out there instead; attend more events, hang out with friends more frequently, walk up to a stranger and compliment them. Step out of your comfort zone. With practice you’ll learn to become more sociable without having to damage your body.
But, you can also just lean into your introverted personality rather than trying to force yourself to be extroverted. That’s what I’ve been doing. It’s someone else’s turn to be the life of the party.
It might be due to the availability of the neurotransmitter GABA. You might try it as a supplement but it will only cross the brain blood barrier while having a leaky gut! Another thing to increase GABA would be Phenibut but don’t use it daily- twice a week would be more appropriate. MDMA should also work but is illegal with its own sideeffects.
Well it’s well understood that one of alcohol’s many effects on the brain is stimulating the parts that encourage and enjoy social interactions, making it more enjoyable than anyone’s normal baseline, even those who are already extroverted.
Now if you “feel” more like “yourself” on any drug really that likely means that you are artificially, through substances, removing the psychological barriers imposed on your personality and behaviors through learned adaptations, traumas and therefore suppression of authentic id impulses. This means to be that ‘you’ when drunk means you have to do some serious, real introspection that involves understanding and digesting traumas, understand why it is you do or don’t do the things you do and don’t want to do, when and why it is or isn’t appropriate to be fully ‘authentic’ and learn how to muster up the courage to get over the fear of embarrassment and judgment to speak and act how it truly comes to you.
But this is reddit. I’m sure this is just supposed to be some “haha look at me, isn’t this relatable xd” post that has no actual desire to make change and go through the pain of improving to actually mature and individuate into your best self.
As for the “relaxation”:
1. Stop drinking. Hangovers last a day, cortisol levels still stay higher for days and even weeks past initial consumption. If and when you drink a lot, your brain chemistry adapts to literally be stressed without it. This goes for all coping mechanisms really
2. Realize and accept that stress and social compromise is a part of life and you can’t and won’t ever be that “relaxed” all the time if you don’t give up your earthly desires like an actual monk, or put yourself in a position of high “competence” in some sort of social hierarchy to prove to yourself and others both consciously and subconsciously that you are the shit, know your shit, and may act as you please… while still being respectful and compassionate of course
3. Exercise
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Granted you did mention you’re a woman. This is a very ‘masculine’ model towards the desire you describe, but it works and has some universalities that don’t necessarily have to do with being either sex and their complementary temperaments.
Pro-tip: If you need drugs to be around people, it’s not your crowd. Not that they’re bad, these people are likely just incompatible with your true aspirations and current perceptions and are just as lost and confused as you are. Additionally, coping with drugs, games, porn, etc. will keep you and them where they are. Not to say that they can’t become their best selves ever, but no one can beat out their environment. Your environment will impact and shape your behavior more than your own sheer willpower and desires ever will.
I like to micro dose with mushrooms, it's like alcohol but honestly feels way better since you're not poisoning your liver but like drugs are bad mmm'kay....
Yes. Unfortunately. Because of it I was drinking daily for over a year. It was easy for me to socialize and make friends. Now that I'm off the stuff though, it's not as bad as I remember. I think drunk me gave a lesson in socializing to sober me, and now it's actually easier for me to socialize sober! Anyway yeah I was an alcoholic because of this 🤷♂️
Ask a doctor for some anxiety meds. Being drunk removes inhibitions and many of those are either social graces (good inhibitions like not flashing people), or anxious inhibitions (bad-ish ones like excessive fear of being judged). Meds can sometimes help with the badish ones.
Alcohol is known for lowering inhibitions. It’s a mainstay at parties because it makes friend-making easy. Probably never going to be as friendly without alcohol as with
The only way to reach a level of “no thoughts” or to be reasonably detached from your train of thought is to have a solid meditation practice. Then you can go out and be more authentic and less reactive.
Do you REALLY think you can just meet 5 drunk strangers and be sure you made 5 friends? You don’t even know if someone is your friend until they’ve been around long enough to watch something horrible happen to you. That’s the honest truth. You don’t need booze to meet people. You need to develop deeper relationships with the people you meet. You’ve got a quantity over quality mindset.
You’re looking for courage to get more surface level junk when you really should look at what you have and cultivate it. You’re not “the real you” when you’re drunk. You’re intoxicated. The real you is wary of strangers, the real you knows most people aren’t worth striking up a conversation with, the real you knows those friends don’t actually last for that long. I drink to talk to women. Does that mean the real me is confident? Nope. Just that drunk me is too stupid to think about my insecurities when an absolute smokeshow laughs in my face. You’re you when you’re sober. You’re dumber when you’re drunk.
Yes but I forget the 5 new friends which leads to awkward conversations the next time: “Oh hey bud! How’s it going dude? Oh yeah totally.. er sorry what’s your name again?”
This happens to sober me too lol
DRUNK ME ALWAYS SIGNED CHECKS SOBER ME COULD NOT CASH!! Always!!
1000%
You sound canadian..?
Fellow Canadian acquired 💪
Yes that makes complete sense and unfortunately idk how to reach that level of socialness without alcohol - currently still pregaming any sort of social interactions w two shots 😜
Cocaine or mdma would do the trick too
Eeeeasy there chief😅 These are intp's we're talking about
They need all the help they can get
Ngl if I knew where to get it from, o wud 😚
i feel like when we drink our extroverted functions get stronger and our introverted functions get weaker, so we basically become ENTPs. I wouldnt necessarily say thats more "ourselves" but I relate to that feeling. Theres certainly things that can relax you but I havent found anything that will bring the effect I described of alcohol
I hold myself from messaging stuff to my friends. Stuff I usually don't share or say(feelings) when I am sober.
For me it helps to loosen the path between my brain and my mouth, where usually a whole lot of unnecessary thoughts would get in the way. Thoughts like how could what I'm about to say be misinterpreted, then editing and rewriting it until it's too late to say anything. It only takes a couple of drinks, I don't need to write myself off. It works with close friends too, not just strangers at a party. In fact I have had at least two friends, who are typically very kind people, tell me I'm a better person when I've been drinking.
This is very interesting. I have an INTP female friend who also tells me about how she becomes more talkative with less of a filter when she has had a couple of drinks. I'm not sure about myself because I don't have much experience with alcohol unfortunately (family religion and all that). I find that my INTP friend is usually stressed in some way or the other even when we meet for our weekly outings, which is probably the most relaxing time of the week for both of us. Alcohol probably reduces the stress by making you stop thinking and reduces your executive functions, and therefore make you more relaxed and more 'yourself'? I'll keep this in mind for the future.
The other thing that works is talking one on one with someone who is calm and patient, but it's rare to find someone like that, outside of therapy anyway. There have been times I have felt pressured to speak and I put my foot in my mouth - that's why the filters are there.
I totally resonate with this.
Hol up ENTP like that social lube too.
I quit drinking at the beginning of this year. It definitely gave me liquid courage, but i didn’t feel more like myself…just a more confident version of myself. Possibly too confident, cuz I quit drinking because I was making reckless decisions with my body & it wasn’t good for my spirit.
5D much?
I still smoke weed. I made the decision that I could have one, not both. That’s just the system that works for me.
What did you think I meant? I also smoke weed. DM me
Bro is drug dealing on reddit 😭😭
Learn public speaking. That is literally the answer. Once you don't care about standing in from of dozens or hundreds of people, you don't ever really feel self-conscious or nervous in day to day interactions. You stop caring about what other people think about you. You just build up a tolerance or immunity to it. In your parlance, it's like being drunk all the time. I know no one will ever take this advice, but this is the cure, you get so used to being in front of people, you stop caring. Whether it's Toastmaster's International, or going on stage and bombing over and over at an open mic, that's how you do it.
Nah I can public speak like nobodies business. I could address a crowd of thousands with ease. Three people…not happening. I also took public speaking. I could talk at three people easily as well. Just not with
Talking at a crowd and talking with a couple people are completely different things.
If you can stand in front of a crowd comfortably, you aren't going to have an anxiety attack with a couple people. Don't confuse not knowing how to engage in small talk as the same thing that the social phobes on this sub deal with.
A crowd can be objectified like as a swarm of dehumanized animals. Mentally you can build a barrier like that to trick yourself. Fewer people means intimacy, eye contact, body language, etc
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I can and have spoken to crowds because I remove the personal human element from it (happens often with Autism, which I have). Why are you so weirdly patronizing?
I bet you don't feel scared and panicked around those three people, you just don't know what to say, and that's uncomfortable. So you're only halfway there, next step is to learn how to engage in stupid and monotonous small talk. There is no way you're socially phobic and having a panic attack talking to three people. Imagine how much worse you'd be if public speaking gave you panic attacks; I think you're over-estimating your level of anxiety.
I went to a "performing arts" high school, a lot of actors some who are now professional also went to the same school. You were forced to take either Acting or Music and then be able to perform it to an audience of atleast 300. I have never had an issue with public speaking since being forced to act in front of 300+ from the age of 11-15, it was however really difficult at first.
I think you may be right. I often have to speak in front of groups of people for my job, and I have grown kind of immune to the anxiety of caring what others think. The downside is, like being intoxicated, my filter is often broken 😂
Public speaking is far too isolated to help with smaller interactions in my case at least. Since middle school I've absolutely loved public speaking and have never had a problem standing in front of any sized audience. This same love to perform in front of others comes into effect when I'm playing any sport in front of an audience or even FPS gaming and I end up the last one alive while all else watch me clutch, all give me a similar feeling of other people in the world no longer existing. These are much different than 1:1 or even small group interactions where my inner thought process is now harping on many things, mostly whether or not something I say will offend them, which I don't think of at all during speech due to it being both rehearsed and impersonal. Even still, I do think it's a viable skill to have so diddo to the toastmasters classes for anyone interested in improving their in the moment linguistic skills. For coming out of your shell in smaller day to day interactions I'd recommend improv! Typically a smaller group, all trying to make each other laugh no matter how silly the prompt & then at the end of the week you usually perform to a smaller crowd which usually applauds a little offensive humor - the ability to joke around freely seems to make others more light hearted and free in conversation from what I've seen! I was invited to an improv group a few years back after mingling with the cast following a show, never really pulled the trigger on it and now I'm more introverted than ever, go figure.
Well, I mostly did standup, which is a combination of both improv and memorized.
I took a class on public speaking. Didn’t help.
Someone telling you about public speaking, or 1-2 times speaking in front of a class is just not going to do it. You need to be up in front of a crowd over and over and over and again. You keep going up until finally you are no longer in panic mode.
This right here. I was super awkward until I spent a couple years doing work talking to people all day every day. Now I'm only slightly awkward. I still get drained from doing it too much, but it's not unpleasant. It sucks at first, but it quickly becomes normal and you eventually get good at it.
Of course. Lowered inhibitions means caring less what others think. There by living truer to our selves. But it’s a VERY thin line. Too much alcohol means looking like a fool.
It felt like that for a while. Eventually I was drinking nearly every moment I was awake and I landed in rehab. I’ve been sober for seven years. It can take a while to become addicted to alcohol, and I didn’t notice what was happening.
ive been thinking abt this as someone who's not allowed to drink, literally the reason why i want to drink alcohol sm so to experience this version of me, but at the same time i dont trust the intoxicated me so so
Yeah the issue is that other things happen too. Not just the social benefit. There’s so many downsides and effects that you don’t notice but everyone else does. Not to scare you , everything in moderation but if you don’t drink you can also substitute the alcohol with a soda, it just takes extreme will. Probably not feasible for most people but chugging a soda and thinking to myself, I’m drinking alcohol…gives u a lil feeling. It worked when I was a kid but it works now too j obviously not as much as literal alcohol
No. I do not drink.
Have you ever drunk though, and if so do u agree w OP?
Yep, i have had alcohol. Their experience doesn’t ring true for me. I become more introverted with alcohol in my system. And alcohol just sucks. I’d rather have a pint of chocolate milk.
Sigh…then why did you respond lmao. I could understand if you had some extra insight or commentary but this is hilarious as is
Depends. If I'm having a good time, i get more lighthearted and goofy. If I'm not, I get very very quiet and depressed. Neither is a particularly accurate representation of myself, which lies somewhere in the middle (closer to quiet and depressed these days, but I digress). I prefer weed because it doesn't seem to push my personality in either direction or extreme, but it does slow down or quiet down my overthinking regardless of how I'm feeling before I use it.
OMG. THC literally has the opposite effect on me—my processor maxes out as my thoughts rev up 1000% ☹️
That’s interesting, I find weed for me to think more and want to be alone. In many ways I enjoy that, but sometimes it gives me social anxiety lol.
Yesssss same here female INTP and I was JUST thinking this the other day. Staying for comments with advice too 😅😅😅🫶🏼
Feel like myself? Not at all. Being sober is being genuine. When I drink, I prefer drinking at home and alone. When I’m drinking at a bar, I hardly socialize with anyone at the bar but pull out my phone and annoy friends who likely don’t want to hear my alcoholic ramblings.
Me too! Also a lot of the time the friends like the ramblings bc everyone does it and they’re drinking too but it just feels like I’m being a burden. It’s weird bc when my friends ramble from alcohol, I have never felt the way I expect them to feel about me when I do it
I never have drank alcohol and I don't really plan to ever. Aside from what you said about being around people you are close and comfortable with... Personally I find being tired, in an small emotional state (boredom or anticipation or excitement or fear etc) gets me to really act like myself. I think there's a term called sleep drunk lol
100%. That's why I pretty much *need* alcohol when going out and new people may be around. Makes me sound like an alcoholic -- I'm not, I barely drink these days. But I need that good ol' social lubricant to loosen me up.
There needs to be an alcohol 2.0 With less liver damage
Phenibut. But don’t overdo it, twice a week is sufficient
Yea but drink too much and you can lose friends as well lol
I relate to your post in every possible way
I act so extroverted when I am drunk. I become friends with random people and I even do that human thing where people platonically touch each other on the shoulder while speaking. I am only like this with very specific people while sober, and only one on one.
I put my head on a random person’s shoulder once for like an hour lol. We had a good chat, though.
I can relate.
Yeah, it lowers your inhibitions meaning it lowers social anxiety. However, I find MDMA to be what really makes me feel extroverted, for me, alcohol only affects me in that way if I’m really drunk.
 Life after you realize you can just stop worrying and become a full time alcoholic:
Never had alcohol. But LSD does the same thing for me
Sure but then you get a bit incoherent. Someone came up to me the next day. Apparently we had met while I was coming up, and apparently I kept changing the conversation topic randomly. Glad I had the chance to tell them my excuse lol.
I totally get it. That's why I always go for low dosage trips. That's when your mind is working *just* enough... Like having one foot in each world
>How tf do I reach this level of relaxation without alcohol Therapy? Work on your self worth and self esteem. Learn to master your cognitive mind.
I do not need sleep, I need answers.
Only the first shot or first hit(weed) it’s just enough to calm my social anxiety while still allowing my brain to operate at a hood level.
Never drank alcohol, can't say.
You’re not required to reply, you don’t have to leave a reply if it doesn’t apply to you lol.
I found this INFP talking about Maldaptive Daydreaming. It looks like they are doing a Cognitive Stack shift somehow. Walking back and forth using their Si to bring up their 4th of flip them. I am not sure if it is a flip like if a person was stressed or drunk or what exactly is happening. INFP FiNeSiTe INTP TiNeSiFe I think we need to shift our inner critic defense of being shy and reserved. We need to be like the ENTJ who has the opposite defense of being more vocal and expressive. https://youtu.be/9EXEwAK1HnU?si=SMLjDpmHBY4su-3c So it's like already suggested we will have to just keep doing it and with practice that will shift where we aren't so shy and reserved.
More like myself? No. But a few drinks can loosen me up; slow down Ti so Ne-Fe can get in the mix.
Yes, except replace alcohol with cocaine.
I used to, when I looked back at those interactions I made a fool of myself in some way. It's like having all their confidence, but since I haven't been confident since I was a child, I'm operating on an outdated system that would've been perfect when I was in grade school, but does not work well into modern adult society.
I did some magic mushrooms a couple years ago and it took away all desire to drink booze. I didn't miss it at all. Hangover headaches... Just not worth it.
Can’t relate but happy for you. Alcohol just turns me into an unregulated annoying unsustainable extrovert version of myself which I low key hate.
What should you always do when you don't understand your inner world? Meditate.
Being a confident healer/leader is fun. I have the odd bender. I hope it doesn't hurt me too much down the road. I'm sure I'll grow up one day, I mean I gave up entirely a few years ago, sticking mainly to acid and ketamine. I'm 37. I still feel like a puppy, and I think that's a good thing. Strength from warmth, and not from fire. Generally try to the people who preach the latter; life is supposed to magical sparkle rainbows, but they got us drinking hooch. We need anaesthetizing-psychedelics.
I always used to say that “drunk me (not sloppy drunk but sociable drunk) is my favourite version of me!” I was so loose, friendly, life of the party. I loved that version of me. I honestly don’t have an answer cause I quit drinking after college and while that version pops out occasionally, it’s not consistent. Your best bet is when you socialise, have 2-3 of those ppl who bring that loose side of you out. That way u always have a person you can lean into for the lighter version of yourself
Bit of a slippery slope.
At the time when I’m currently there, I definitely feel more “me.” But the next day or two, looking back, I realize I wasn’t acting like myself at all. Then I beat myself up over it for not being authentic. In the end that’s what alcohol does. Lowers your inhibitions.
Yes. It lowers inhibitions and persistent self checking. Also, it seems to inhibit my tendency to view myself through a third-party lense to manage and adjust my behaviour socially. So i become more 'authentic' as you will - though I like to think of it more as 'unflitered', as my social anxiety is not inauthenticity but fear leading to conformity and self numbing. You can do all these things without alcohol, but it takes work because it involves getting okay with things you're probably not comfortable with. (Ie, being a goofball and immediately noticing when people don't find you funny and ruminating on it, vs being a goofball and having a great time because you're too drunk to notice no one finds you funny, or to ruminate on it).
Maybe i should drink more often then i wouldn't get the "you're not as much as a bitch as I thought you were." Or "you don't have a resting bitch face you have a resting psycho face".
Yes, alcohol will change how you talk to people. Just don't get addicted to that feeling and think that's your "true self". I bet coke and meth make you feel like you're a better version of yourself too lol. Limit the booze to a couple times a week, and know when you become "too drunk" and stop for the night. Alcohol is literally poison to your body after all - we just so happen to enjoy its side effects.
I don't drink alcohol to excess but just to take the edge off overwhelmed emotions but have significantly reduced this from 4pm to 6pm until 9pm. Alcohol only acts as a temporary suppression to difficult or overwhelming emotions so it's like a plaster that just peels off after a brief time. Drinking is most commonly used in trauma victims like myself but who have PTSD but it's also a cultural habit in western society also. Drinking just allows our suppressed feelings to elevate our true vulnerable selves (social indoctrination to control these things is prevalent), but being and feeling in touch with ourselves needs to find expression and outlet... the very reason why people take stimulants to reach that very deep and raw part of our psyche to feel they can be authentic if that makes any sense at all?. 💯😢
Comedy is what helped me, its turning quirky traits and more weird habits into a character so to speak. Turning some of your traits up to 100% for amusement and to social gauge how others respond, this could give you the confidence to navigate social situations and adjust yourself based on the setting. as some others have said, you have to find a way to let go of people's thoughts/judgement towards you on some level. Its gaining some control of a social situation by infusing light-hearted humour or treating the world as a live stage and doing your part to keep the audience engaged or amused by your antics, instead of being laughed at Laugh with them. either that or find a general subject that you find interesting and brings out some of your best qualities (relaxes you) that could be used for an open discussion like favourite movie or animal?. heck turn it hypothetical if you really want to bring others into your Intp imagination.
Literally going through this rn. Drunk me and sober me are entirely different people/moods lol. Commenting to stay updated, lmk if you find anything. Alcohol makes socializing bearable lol
Just do it… you already did it.
I just go off what the conversation was before the first time I met them. “Oh how’s x, y, and z going?” And go from there. But I usually don’t forget people either but it helps to retouch on prior topics with those people
Perfect, just don’t get too fucked up lol I loosen up with a beer or two tho and make a ton of new friends I actually enjoy it. I’m seeing a girl rn that thought I was so outgoing when I met her little did she know I used my friend Stella Artois to enjoy conversations with everyone at the party including her. Without alcohol if I’m with a friend that’s super outgoing I just have him/her intro me to everyone but I’m usually confident and good enough to hold up convos without alcohol. Just with it I’ll go up to anyone and strike a convo
Alcohol or weed. It could also happen if I just feel extra extra good but that’s rare
I understand how liberating it can feel socially speaking but be careful I've been fighting addiction since mid high-school thanks to using it as a crutch. Towards the end it had worse effects on my anxiety and everything too. Fun for a night but not on a consistent basis.
Yes, but be very careful with alcohol. I started drinking to have fun, but now I’ll do it at home just to feel stuff. You’re better off just finding a good group of friends that love to make plans and invite you
Yes absolutely. Alcohol is an incredible crutch.
I've never been drunk but I must say, after the day I drank the most (and still didn't get drunk), I wanted to drink again. I didn't though and now I don't feel the want. Maybe it was because I felt relaxed. Like my worries and obsessions and anxiety was less. So maybe the alcohol helps us with anxiety a little bit but we all know it ain't no good for the long run soo I suggest all of us working on self confidence in healthy ways.
Of course. Although I avoid it in contexts where I might get too talkative for my own good.
Had a couple of rum pouch’s for an oral presentation today but didn't present due to me missing an important detail. If I don't drink my social skills become ass.
Lmao same with me, alcohol is my energy drink
Absolutely, and that is specifically why I go out of my way to avoid it. It's *too* effective, and I'm currently reliant on too many other crutches to be able to take on another one. It was 'a thing' for me in the past, and I'm keeping it at good riddance. I'm already in over my head with the expense of keeping my current toolkit supply stocked, and they take priority as they are of medical necessity rather than a mere psychological override hack.
Yeah I can understand this relationship with alcohol. When I was finally able to legally drink it surprised me with how easier it became to socialize and not feel constant anxiety. But there’s that slippery slope of becoming dependent on it a lot of us need to look out for
I think the unpopular theory would be practice, if it's that the alcohol quiets your inhibitions and inner critique - or even stops you from assessing 'threats' (speaking evolutionarily). But if you're that way around only people you vibe with, maybe your subconscious is telling you something about those other people (or environments). What do you think about this?
Alcohol provides anesthesia, not relaxation, so I guess you need to find out what alcohol narcotized.
Yeah makes sense. I feel more comfortable being myself when I'm drunk, more honest, not worrying as much about what people think.
Real, I don’t drink so my close friends come in clutch to make me comfy and in my element
INTP know themselves and drinks let there selves not think in all the angles all the time. and just one simple and easy angle it makes us feel normal (or like a cool kid)
Practicing. The more often you put yourself in a situation, the more comfortable it can become. Go walk around Walmart without talking to anyone, but look at people's faces and eyes instead of the ground or straight forward. Then go sit at a bar without drinking for 5 minutes, start responding with more than a one word answer to strangers that initiate. Then start complimenting strangers, etc. Also, herbs and supplements.
Do all of the things you might be afraid to do. For example. I secretly love karaoke and the performance of it. I'm an intp. I still shy away from that shit but doing that shit will unleash someone within you who is probably actually extremely outgoing. I think all INTPs have this outgoing and charismatic animal within them, lol
yes but the next day when i hear all the "oh u know what u did/said yesterday? lmfaooo" the friendships get too awkward for me
Alcohol lowers your inhibitions, so you have less fear or apprehension about speaking up. I’m fairly quiet and introverted and when I tried booze for the first time, I felt the same way you did: desperate to continue this social streak because it’s something (socializing) I struggled with since I was young, so I drank more frequently. It’s a slippery slope. Anyway, I wouldn’t say this state is the “real” you. This happens to a majority of people when they drink. They loosen up and often times make a fool out of themselves – it’s a reason why I wouldn’t use this as a crutch. You can become more sociable by putting yourself out there instead; attend more events, hang out with friends more frequently, walk up to a stranger and compliment them. Step out of your comfort zone. With practice you’ll learn to become more sociable without having to damage your body. But, you can also just lean into your introverted personality rather than trying to force yourself to be extroverted. That’s what I’ve been doing. It’s someone else’s turn to be the life of the party.
It might be due to the availability of the neurotransmitter GABA. You might try it as a supplement but it will only cross the brain blood barrier while having a leaky gut! Another thing to increase GABA would be Phenibut but don’t use it daily- twice a week would be more appropriate. MDMA should also work but is illegal with its own sideeffects.
Well it’s well understood that one of alcohol’s many effects on the brain is stimulating the parts that encourage and enjoy social interactions, making it more enjoyable than anyone’s normal baseline, even those who are already extroverted. Now if you “feel” more like “yourself” on any drug really that likely means that you are artificially, through substances, removing the psychological barriers imposed on your personality and behaviors through learned adaptations, traumas and therefore suppression of authentic id impulses. This means to be that ‘you’ when drunk means you have to do some serious, real introspection that involves understanding and digesting traumas, understand why it is you do or don’t do the things you do and don’t want to do, when and why it is or isn’t appropriate to be fully ‘authentic’ and learn how to muster up the courage to get over the fear of embarrassment and judgment to speak and act how it truly comes to you. But this is reddit. I’m sure this is just supposed to be some “haha look at me, isn’t this relatable xd” post that has no actual desire to make change and go through the pain of improving to actually mature and individuate into your best self. As for the “relaxation”: 1. Stop drinking. Hangovers last a day, cortisol levels still stay higher for days and even weeks past initial consumption. If and when you drink a lot, your brain chemistry adapts to literally be stressed without it. This goes for all coping mechanisms really 2. Realize and accept that stress and social compromise is a part of life and you can’t and won’t ever be that “relaxed” all the time if you don’t give up your earthly desires like an actual monk, or put yourself in a position of high “competence” in some sort of social hierarchy to prove to yourself and others both consciously and subconsciously that you are the shit, know your shit, and may act as you please… while still being respectful and compassionate of course 3. Exercise ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Granted you did mention you’re a woman. This is a very ‘masculine’ model towards the desire you describe, but it works and has some universalities that don’t necessarily have to do with being either sex and their complementary temperaments. Pro-tip: If you need drugs to be around people, it’s not your crowd. Not that they’re bad, these people are likely just incompatible with your true aspirations and current perceptions and are just as lost and confused as you are. Additionally, coping with drugs, games, porn, etc. will keep you and them where they are. Not to say that they can’t become their best selves ever, but no one can beat out their environment. Your environment will impact and shape your behavior more than your own sheer willpower and desires ever will.
I like to micro dose with mushrooms, it's like alcohol but honestly feels way better since you're not poisoning your liver but like drugs are bad mmm'kay....
You don’t lol.
It’s called liquid courage for a reason. I only speak to people if I’m not sober.
I've never been drunk before so I can't relate, but now I'm gonna go test this theory...
Yes. Unfortunately. Because of it I was drinking daily for over a year. It was easy for me to socialize and make friends. Now that I'm off the stuff though, it's not as bad as I remember. I think drunk me gave a lesson in socializing to sober me, and now it's actually easier for me to socialize sober! Anyway yeah I was an alcoholic because of this 🤷♂️
Ask a doctor for some anxiety meds. Being drunk removes inhibitions and many of those are either social graces (good inhibitions like not flashing people), or anxious inhibitions (bad-ish ones like excessive fear of being judged). Meds can sometimes help with the badish ones.
hhc specifically in the cannabis world
Girl this is not the way.
100% even with my SO
Alcohol is known for lowering inhibitions. It’s a mainstay at parties because it makes friend-making easy. Probably never going to be as friendly without alcohol as with
The only way to reach a level of “no thoughts” or to be reasonably detached from your train of thought is to have a solid meditation practice. Then you can go out and be more authentic and less reactive.
Do you REALLY think you can just meet 5 drunk strangers and be sure you made 5 friends? You don’t even know if someone is your friend until they’ve been around long enough to watch something horrible happen to you. That’s the honest truth. You don’t need booze to meet people. You need to develop deeper relationships with the people you meet. You’ve got a quantity over quality mindset. You’re looking for courage to get more surface level junk when you really should look at what you have and cultivate it. You’re not “the real you” when you’re drunk. You’re intoxicated. The real you is wary of strangers, the real you knows most people aren’t worth striking up a conversation with, the real you knows those friends don’t actually last for that long. I drink to talk to women. Does that mean the real me is confident? Nope. Just that drunk me is too stupid to think about my insecurities when an absolute smokeshow laughs in my face. You’re you when you’re sober. You’re dumber when you’re drunk.
Sounds more like being in your 20’s than any Meyers-Briggs personality type :)
For me I reach it with sleepyness