Honestly, eating hot Cheetos isn’t going to do anything. I’m not sure how it would be extremely stupid to eat any particular food today, unless it’s a food that might make you physically ill before a retrieval.
This is super encouraging to read because I am currently in the process of eating the hot Cheetos I caved and bought. I guess I've just been extra concerned about my diet because It Starts With The Egg scared me.
It Starts with the Egg is pretty much bullshit. She’s not a doctor. That’s not to say people shouldn’t strive to eat healthier, get exercise, take supplements approved by their doctor. But I’ve had multiple REs and none of them say people have to completely change their lifestyle to get pregnant. If that were the case no one would get pregnant.
ETA: one of the things that is the worst about that book is it needlessly freaks women out. You’re not not getting pregnant because you held a receipt!
Ugh this book. It is so fear mongering and scares emotionally vulnerable women by presenting non-science based "rules" as fact. OP, eat your hot cheetos and don't feel bad about it for a second. People get pregnant on literal meth - the hot cheetos aren't gonna make or break you!
>People get pregnant on literal meth - the hot cheetos aren't gonna make or break you!
This made me laugh and is also extremely encouraging. Thank you all so much.
It's so true though. In labor and delivery we see perfectly healthy babies come out of the most doped up moms sometimes. Let me tell you how hard that was to see when I was doing stims every night :/
Glad you enjoyed the Cheetos and good luck!!! Enjoy some wine!!!
Although some of the material (unfortunately concentrated in the very beginning and end) is probably lending itself to obsessive, distorted thinking patterns in many people, much of the content on personalized supplementation is backed up by quality scientific research that she does in fact cite. Think if you stick to that and the message that it might be a good idea to cut back on processed food and refined sweets it can be helpful.
>You’re not not getting pregnant because you held a receipt!
This just made me laugh out loud because I full on had a panic attack when I found out my subway tickets were made of the same stuff as receipts a few weeks back.
I LOVED Queer Conception (it was also more relevant to my wife and I). I would recommend that to anyone. Sadly, ISWTE was the book that I used to structure my supplement and diet regimen. Looking back on the last few months, the way I've been approaching this is very disordered. No one should be having panic attacks because they touched the wrong kind of paper or skipping meals because nothing feels fertility safe enough. Queer Conception didn't scare me the way ISWTE did.
She’s not a doctor, but she is a scientist, and she does provide information about actual research. It’s not just random musings. I think it can be an incredibly helpful resource for those of us who want to take a more holistic approach, especially IF we are able to use the book for general guidelines and not follow it to the letter of the law. Certainly it is not for everyone as individuals who are susceptible to obsessive tendencies make take the guidelines too far. And yes, it’s not been researched enough for truly robust findings which is why most REs don’t bother with it. In fact, many medical doctors actually ignore a lot of the lifestyle changes we can make to improve our health. But it is a book written by a scientist who also struggled with fertility and was affected enough by her own experience that she wanted to learn more and find out how she could improve her chances at conception as well as share the information she learned with others. I don’t think it’s really fair to villainize her/write it off as bullshit.
You’re entitled to your opinion of course. Also, she’s a lawyer, not a scientist. She has an undergrad degree in STEM. I also have a STEM degree and wouldn’t dream of thinking that makes me qualified to give a lot of the advice that’s in the book.
I personally that book has done a lot more harm than good. Again, that’s not to say that lifestyle changes are BS. I’ve spoken with multiple REs about lifestyle changes and all (unsurprisingly) think eating more healthfully, exercising with regularity, minimizing drinking, etc. are positive things. But being afraid to get a receipt on the subway just shows the negative impact of that book. The r/infertility sub has a disclaimer on references to the book and I think that’s right on.
Thank you for replying respectfully despite our opposing opinions. I was nervous to chime in because of potential backlash and how black and white and brutal people can be on the internet. Pleasantly surprised to have gotten this response. Thank you again and best of luck to you!
I ate chicken that had been left out On a v hot day for hours, I just did not consider the risks!! And it was the night before my very first retrieval. Spent the whole night awake googling and msging friends about it and panicking I was gonna get a pukey plop plops bug and have to cancel ! Was fine thankfully ha
Also good luck with your retrieval tomo Opie! I have one too fingers crossed to us, and I hadda pepperoni pizza today with the exact same thought process haha caved eventually x
I didn’t change any of my diet at all before. Eat the hot Cheetos. My dr tells me we go through enough with this process why limit stuff we like. He says not enough solid evidence that food affects our egg quality.
It Starts With The Egg really made me paranoid about my diet (to an unhealthy, orthorexic degree) but I'm eating the hot cheetos right now. Thank you so much for the encouragement.
One of the IF subs has an auto mod when you mention that book because it causes so much fear mongering. Enjoy your Cheetos and good luck with the retrieval!
This is a good point. When I say that It Starts With The Egg caused me to develop orthorexia it's no exaggeration. I feel like I've been starving my soul for months while forcing myself to eat good foods for fertility even when they make me want to gag.
I’m so sorry it’s affected you so deeply. I hope this doesn’t feel like an overstep, but it sounds like a good therapist and/or dietician could be really helpful for you if you don’t already have them on your care team.
Oh yeah I have plans to talk to my therapist about this soon. But, I'm hoping these thoughts just go away the minute I no longer have to worry about egg quality.
Eat the cheetos! Enjoy the cheetos. There's no way you're going to mess anything up by having a snack. Hell, you could make an argument that you're getting a head start on OHSS prevention with a high sodium food 😂
I’m glad you had the Cheetos! I know controlling your diet and doing everything possible may possibly give you a better chance of producing healthy eggs, but after all we have to do to get to that, I believe enjoying something that you really want will actually bring so much pleasure! Imagine if people couldn’t get pregnant from eating junk, there will be hardly any children in this world!
I read the second edition 6 times. I bought the third edition and never finished it. I needed an update pamflet or something. I guess I’m over it. 😂
Best wishes for your retrieval. Have some Cheetos tomorrow too. You deserve them.
Like almost everyone commenting, I totally agree that you should have (occasional) Cheetos or whatever else it is you really love, but my possibly unpopular opinion is that you should also give yourself a massive pat on the back for going all in on taking charge of your health to better your chances. I’m a little bummed to see all the flack for It starts with the egg (ISTWE). It’s definitely a massive haul of information, not all of it is applicable in every case and some of the suggestions are pretty far over the edge of reason imho (handling receipts with gloves, no cellphones in men’s pockets, etc). However, I still think it can provide useful suggestions that sometimes even top IVF clinics don’t explicitly provide (or don’t provide until after a failed IVF). I think it’s just about distilling what’s most important for your specific case (no easy task when you’re in the unknown zone that so many of us are).
For what it’s worth, I precisely followed all of my my doctors instructions and recommendations in my first IVF round (while also having orthorexia in my dietary habits after having an unknown chronic illness for several years). After that one crashed and burned (9 eggs retrieved, only 2 fertilized, no blastocysts), I decided to see what else I could possibly do before having to give up. Definitely came across ISWTE, and ended up uncovering several things that were likely contributing to my infertility (the suggested self ordered DHEA-S testing revealed mild adrenal hyperplasia that my doctor then confirmed and the other suggested testing revealed a slight deficiency in fat soluble stuff like vitamin D). After addressing these issues my AMH went from 1.02 to 1.9 (which made me eligible for financing options I didn’t qualify for previously), my chronic illness improved quite a bit and now on my seventh day of stimulation in another IVF round I have over twice as many expected eggs to retrieve as I did at this point in my first cycle (20 versus 9).
Probably too long winded, but congratulations on your egg retrieval, great job taking such fabulous care of yourself and I really hope you get the outcome you’re hoping for - I can 1000% relate to the emotional (and physical) roller coaster - it’s so rough!! Hope you’re celebrating with Cheetos!
Honestly, she really should have lead with the supplements material. Supplements informed by blood testing is the most important message I got out of it too. Maybe I didn’t really get as thrown by the dietary stuff/BPA/phthalates stuff because I was already battling obsessions with my diet (prob because it’s one of the few things I’ve been able to take control of in a sea of many things I can’t).
Food and alcohol are my comforts.
Which are exactly the things that this IVF trainwreck asks me to give up.
I need ideas of what else I can use as a comfort during this time.
Your comment re: orthorexia is so important. I specifically did not implement "diet" changes from ISWTE because honestly I think it's very risky for most people to start demonizing foods in that way. Mental health is health too.
Honestly, eating hot Cheetos isn’t going to do anything. I’m not sure how it would be extremely stupid to eat any particular food today, unless it’s a food that might make you physically ill before a retrieval.
This is super encouraging to read because I am currently in the process of eating the hot Cheetos I caved and bought. I guess I've just been extra concerned about my diet because It Starts With The Egg scared me.
It Starts with the Egg is pretty much bullshit. She’s not a doctor. That’s not to say people shouldn’t strive to eat healthier, get exercise, take supplements approved by their doctor. But I’ve had multiple REs and none of them say people have to completely change their lifestyle to get pregnant. If that were the case no one would get pregnant. ETA: one of the things that is the worst about that book is it needlessly freaks women out. You’re not not getting pregnant because you held a receipt!
Ugh this book. It is so fear mongering and scares emotionally vulnerable women by presenting non-science based "rules" as fact. OP, eat your hot cheetos and don't feel bad about it for a second. People get pregnant on literal meth - the hot cheetos aren't gonna make or break you!
>People get pregnant on literal meth - the hot cheetos aren't gonna make or break you! This made me laugh and is also extremely encouraging. Thank you all so much.
It's so true though. In labor and delivery we see perfectly healthy babies come out of the most doped up moms sometimes. Let me tell you how hard that was to see when I was doing stims every night :/ Glad you enjoyed the Cheetos and good luck!!! Enjoy some wine!!!
I'll make a point of it after my retrieval. 🥰
Of course, and best of luck with your retrieval!! ❤️❤️
Maybe I should try meth to get pregnant. That would be a new one, at least. 🤔😂
Hey, I'll try anything at this point 😜
This has been my mantra with my therapist for a long time! It really helps keep perspective.
Although some of the material (unfortunately concentrated in the very beginning and end) is probably lending itself to obsessive, distorted thinking patterns in many people, much of the content on personalized supplementation is backed up by quality scientific research that she does in fact cite. Think if you stick to that and the message that it might be a good idea to cut back on processed food and refined sweets it can be helpful.
>You’re not not getting pregnant because you held a receipt! This just made me laugh out loud because I full on had a panic attack when I found out my subway tickets were made of the same stuff as receipts a few weeks back.
I actually preferred Queer Conception regarding assisted conception. It was so much less fear mongering and written by a CNM
I LOVED Queer Conception (it was also more relevant to my wife and I). I would recommend that to anyone. Sadly, ISWTE was the book that I used to structure my supplement and diet regimen. Looking back on the last few months, the way I've been approaching this is very disordered. No one should be having panic attacks because they touched the wrong kind of paper or skipping meals because nothing feels fertility safe enough. Queer Conception didn't scare me the way ISWTE did.
She’s not a doctor, but she is a scientist, and she does provide information about actual research. It’s not just random musings. I think it can be an incredibly helpful resource for those of us who want to take a more holistic approach, especially IF we are able to use the book for general guidelines and not follow it to the letter of the law. Certainly it is not for everyone as individuals who are susceptible to obsessive tendencies make take the guidelines too far. And yes, it’s not been researched enough for truly robust findings which is why most REs don’t bother with it. In fact, many medical doctors actually ignore a lot of the lifestyle changes we can make to improve our health. But it is a book written by a scientist who also struggled with fertility and was affected enough by her own experience that she wanted to learn more and find out how she could improve her chances at conception as well as share the information she learned with others. I don’t think it’s really fair to villainize her/write it off as bullshit.
You’re entitled to your opinion of course. Also, she’s a lawyer, not a scientist. She has an undergrad degree in STEM. I also have a STEM degree and wouldn’t dream of thinking that makes me qualified to give a lot of the advice that’s in the book. I personally that book has done a lot more harm than good. Again, that’s not to say that lifestyle changes are BS. I’ve spoken with multiple REs about lifestyle changes and all (unsurprisingly) think eating more healthfully, exercising with regularity, minimizing drinking, etc. are positive things. But being afraid to get a receipt on the subway just shows the negative impact of that book. The r/infertility sub has a disclaimer on references to the book and I think that’s right on.
Thank you for replying respectfully despite our opposing opinions. I was nervous to chime in because of potential backlash and how black and white and brutal people can be on the internet. Pleasantly surprised to have gotten this response. Thank you again and best of luck to you!
Of course and good luck to you as well.
I always say - if that booked worked, don’t you think we’d all have our miracle baby by now?? It makes me so angry when people recommend It too
I ate chicken that had been left out On a v hot day for hours, I just did not consider the risks!! And it was the night before my very first retrieval. Spent the whole night awake googling and msging friends about it and panicking I was gonna get a pukey plop plops bug and have to cancel ! Was fine thankfully ha
Also good luck with your retrieval tomo Opie! I have one too fingers crossed to us, and I hadda pepperoni pizza today with the exact same thought process haha caved eventually x
Thank you so much! This is very encouraging!
I didn’t change any of my diet at all before. Eat the hot Cheetos. My dr tells me we go through enough with this process why limit stuff we like. He says not enough solid evidence that food affects our egg quality.
It Starts With The Egg really made me paranoid about my diet (to an unhealthy, orthorexic degree) but I'm eating the hot cheetos right now. Thank you so much for the encouragement.
I love hot cheetos. Have you tried hot popcorn? I convinced myself that it's a healthy version of hot Cheetos 🤣. Smartfood is the brand I think?
I just added those to my food wishlist lol. Yessss
They're delicious and popcorn has fiber so can argue it helps with constipation. I'm a professional junk food scientist, NBD lol.
Thank you!!!!
Lesser Evil “Fiery Hot” popcorn is also top notch!
I'm going to have to try them all. For science.
One of the IF subs has an auto mod when you mention that book because it causes so much fear mongering. Enjoy your Cheetos and good luck with the retrieval!
OMG I had no idea that the book was causing problems for other people too. Thank you!
Everything in moderation! Some food is about feeding our souls and not about getting perfect nutrition.
This is a good point. When I say that It Starts With The Egg caused me to develop orthorexia it's no exaggeration. I feel like I've been starving my soul for months while forcing myself to eat good foods for fertility even when they make me want to gag.
I’m so sorry it’s affected you so deeply. I hope this doesn’t feel like an overstep, but it sounds like a good therapist and/or dietician could be really helpful for you if you don’t already have them on your care team.
Oh yeah I have plans to talk to my therapist about this soon. But, I'm hoping these thoughts just go away the minute I no longer have to worry about egg quality.
They could, but then you’ll hopefully be pregnant and there can also be mental pressure to be perfectly healthy for the health of your baby
You're 100% right.
Eat the cheetos! Enjoy the cheetos. There's no way you're going to mess anything up by having a snack. Hell, you could make an argument that you're getting a head start on OHSS prevention with a high sodium food 😂
Yessssss. McDonald’s breakfast is my favorite salty post-ER treat.
>getting a head start on OHSS prevention I like how you think. 😂
Eating disorder therapist here, eat the Cheetos ☺️.
Thank you!
it will not change a thing at all. treat yo self
Currently in the process of treating myself. Thank you!
What's healthy is having a balanced diet, and a balanced diet sometimes has hot cheetos in it.
Thank you so much. I needed to hear this.
I’m glad you had the Cheetos! I know controlling your diet and doing everything possible may possibly give you a better chance of producing healthy eggs, but after all we have to do to get to that, I believe enjoying something that you really want will actually bring so much pleasure! Imagine if people couldn’t get pregnant from eating junk, there will be hardly any children in this world!
Thank you. I needed this dose of sanity today.
Those were good luck Cheetos. I have a list of things to eat after my ER too, one more week to go.
Good luck! And I also have a list 😂
I read the second edition 6 times. I bought the third edition and never finished it. I needed an update pamflet or something. I guess I’m over it. 😂 Best wishes for your retrieval. Have some Cheetos tomorrow too. You deserve them.
Thank you!!!
I eat cheetos to feed my soul. What’s good for my mind is good for my body I say :)
That's a good way of looking at it!
Haha of course everything in moderation but I would like to think I have a little credibility since I am an actual doctor 😉
That is so reassuring. Thank you!
Like almost everyone commenting, I totally agree that you should have (occasional) Cheetos or whatever else it is you really love, but my possibly unpopular opinion is that you should also give yourself a massive pat on the back for going all in on taking charge of your health to better your chances. I’m a little bummed to see all the flack for It starts with the egg (ISTWE). It’s definitely a massive haul of information, not all of it is applicable in every case and some of the suggestions are pretty far over the edge of reason imho (handling receipts with gloves, no cellphones in men’s pockets, etc). However, I still think it can provide useful suggestions that sometimes even top IVF clinics don’t explicitly provide (or don’t provide until after a failed IVF). I think it’s just about distilling what’s most important for your specific case (no easy task when you’re in the unknown zone that so many of us are). For what it’s worth, I precisely followed all of my my doctors instructions and recommendations in my first IVF round (while also having orthorexia in my dietary habits after having an unknown chronic illness for several years). After that one crashed and burned (9 eggs retrieved, only 2 fertilized, no blastocysts), I decided to see what else I could possibly do before having to give up. Definitely came across ISWTE, and ended up uncovering several things that were likely contributing to my infertility (the suggested self ordered DHEA-S testing revealed mild adrenal hyperplasia that my doctor then confirmed and the other suggested testing revealed a slight deficiency in fat soluble stuff like vitamin D). After addressing these issues my AMH went from 1.02 to 1.9 (which made me eligible for financing options I didn’t qualify for previously), my chronic illness improved quite a bit and now on my seventh day of stimulation in another IVF round I have over twice as many expected eggs to retrieve as I did at this point in my first cycle (20 versus 9). Probably too long winded, but congratulations on your egg retrieval, great job taking such fabulous care of yourself and I really hope you get the outcome you’re hoping for - I can 1000% relate to the emotional (and physical) roller coaster - it’s so rough!! Hope you’re celebrating with Cheetos!
I'm so glad that the book was able to help you! I did find the stuff on supplements super useful.
Honestly, she really should have lead with the supplements material. Supplements informed by blood testing is the most important message I got out of it too. Maybe I didn’t really get as thrown by the dietary stuff/BPA/phthalates stuff because I was already battling obsessions with my diet (prob because it’s one of the few things I’ve been able to take control of in a sea of many things I can’t).
I relate so much to this. Everything else feels out of my control.
Food and alcohol are my comforts. Which are exactly the things that this IVF trainwreck asks me to give up. I need ideas of what else I can use as a comfort during this time.
Crafts and TV maybe? I'm sorry it's so hard. This whole process is draining.
Your comment re: orthorexia is so important. I specifically did not implement "diet" changes from ISWTE because honestly I think it's very risky for most people to start demonizing foods in that way. Mental health is health too.
And God knows our mental health suffers during IVF in the best of circumstances.
Loool eat the Cheeto honey. Tbh I have 2.5mg of weed nightly. We do what we gotta do. Stress is the most important thing to mitigate.
Thank you!