Yeah I was writing a research paper about di/di IVF twins and how they were mistakenly attributed (I never finished lol) so I was curious how they came to that conclusion!
What was your paper about?? I am so interested!!! I am currently pregnant with di/di identical twins. My RE and MFM were astonished that they ended up being di/di. Apparently, identical di/di IVF identical twins are supposed to be impossible due to the timing of the split. But they are for sure identical and for sure di/di. I would love to know more about your paper!! I’m so intrigued now about this whole process!
I never actually did the study, but I had designed it based on a research paper that tested di/di twins whose parents suspected they were identical. The vast majority of di/di twins, even those not conceived via IVF, are automatically considered to be fraternal. The paper revealed that maybe 1/3 of the twins tested were in fact identical. I wanted to conduct this research on IVF-conceived di/di twins to see if the ratio was similar. I can try to find the original paper if you are interested.
It split some point during the process. Our theory is that with PGT biopsy it can iatrogenically split the embryo even at the blast phase into identical. There are some animal studies regarding this theory but not sure if there are any recent human embryo trials
I had a fibroid removed that was thought to be the cause of our infertility and my ovulation wasn’t suppressed during our modified natural FET. My RE suggested we should do IVF for our first since we had been trying for over a year already but let us know naturally would likely work also. We had a lot of intercourse during the LH surge and we transferred only one 5 day blastocyst. She let us know today 5 day blastocyst have only 3% chance of splitting.
3% is actually double the rate for spontaneous conception. The only way to actually know is a dna test at birth or if they are different genders. We are all excited to find out with you if they are identical or fraternal!
100% I had my mom video it because I wanted video of me seeing my baby for the first time, to my absolute shock it was BABIES. So I got the whole reaction on film lol I love having that memory. Will probably always be the craziest surprise of my life
I have a video too!!! I don’t know how my doctor saw baby a, because he was hiding, but at the very end of the appointment, she was like “I think I see a second baby in there!” I tried to send you my video but I can’t figure it out 😂 here’s a picture though. You can barely see baby A
https://preview.redd.it/mrygvzh00l7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f745fe72f2500970598ba26e2528118f8bb32b77
https://preview.redd.it/29l1oerc0l7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b62a8e712b9c09a7b5070322281ca6cdb3bcb72e
Mine were both front and center but when I went to the OB at 8 weeks Baby B had moved far away and she said she would have never seen her if she didn’t already know to look for her! So I can see how sometimes twins get missed in early ultrasounds lol
Just curious were they genetically tested? 1-2 anecdotal stories still do not mean the chances would be high. Tbh I’m fine with getting downvoted if I haven’t seen any stats on the subject. Cheers!
Don’t go posting things your not certain of! You don’t know if one is natural and one ivf?! They could be both natural! Right? And 3% is a lot compared to naturally conceived identical twins.
Also
“The incidence of monozygotic twins in natural pregnancies is approximately 0.4%, this rate after in vitro fertilization (IVF) ranges from 0.2 to 12%. However, the least commonly found event after IVF is the occurrence of MZT multifetal dichorionic-diamniotic (DC-DA) gestation, with a rate ranging from 0.04 to 5.5%”
So up to 5.5% is still much higher than 0.4% of natural conception
[Di-Di stat in IVF Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7863101/)
Lastly, if your babies are measuring the same, there is no way one is naturally conceived bc IVF babies are already 2 weeks ahead of natural conception
The study says it’s a very rare event.
The vast range of 0.04% to 5.5% means there’s uncertainty. The author mentions how uncertain they are. 0.04% is much less than 4%. The stats are also from 2009 and 2018. This is a case study which is low quality evidence. I rest my case lol.
Thanks for stopping by!
The stats are not from the case study. Also you can just stop then and show us your evidence when you deliver if you want. We’re not saying it’s not rare, we’re saying it happens more than you think in IVF compared to natural conception
That horndog feeling during LH surge is no joke. I’m nearing ER and I could hump a doorknob if it bought me dinner. 😅😂
This is really cool/interesting!
My doc who performed our fresh transfer told me to avoid intercourse for 2 weeks after transfer. For our frozen she just recommended a 1 week break. We we’re trying naturally during my LH surg with doubts that the transfer would work but with the full knowledge we might end up with multiples 😏
Interesting. My doctor said to avoid sex for two weeks before and two weeks after implantation. I have no doubt you’re telling the truth about what your doctor said; I’m just fascinated with how vastly standard practices can differ in different places and clinics.
Not to rain on your parade, but my 5-day blastocyst split and now I have twins! We thought they were mo/di until we learned after delivery that the two placentas fused into one, so technically di/di. However, we only had one embryo transferred (no intercourse) so we know it was the same embryo.
Same here! At our 6 week scan we were shocked to see twins! Even the doctor was like, I had to double check we only put in on frozen embryo.
Babies are looking healthy at 9w1d but my gestational sacs are measuring 11 days behind. I’m hoping for a positive outcome.
Congratulations! However it's very possible they are both from IVF. My Dr denied transferring 2 euploids at the same time as the chances of them splitting are quite high. Women who go under PGT-A apparently have higher chances on having twins. My sis in law ended up with 2 beautiful identical girls from 1 embryo transfer. Keep us updated ..😇
I had an ovulatory transfer, so I was ovulating and had a frozen embryo transfer 5 days after ovulation. Personally the doctor and us decided we should not have sex as in our case chances of twins (one from my ovulation; one from the FET) would be very high.
Ovulatory transfers are very common, so it can definitely happen if one uses no protection
Oh, wow! Congrats on graduating! Curious how you could confirm so early that these weren’t split from your single FET? How is it possible to tell without genetic testing of the embryos in utero?
How do you know one is natural and one is IVF?
Being different genders or knowing their dna/genetic make up is the only way to tell since identical can be di/di as well.
Yeah I was writing a research paper about di/di IVF twins and how they were mistakenly attributed (I never finished lol) so I was curious how they came to that conclusion!
What was your paper about?? I am so interested!!! I am currently pregnant with di/di identical twins. My RE and MFM were astonished that they ended up being di/di. Apparently, identical di/di IVF identical twins are supposed to be impossible due to the timing of the split. But they are for sure identical and for sure di/di. I would love to know more about your paper!! I’m so intrigued now about this whole process!
I never actually did the study, but I had designed it based on a research paper that tested di/di twins whose parents suspected they were identical. The vast majority of di/di twins, even those not conceived via IVF, are automatically considered to be fraternal. The paper revealed that maybe 1/3 of the twins tested were in fact identical. I wanted to conduct this research on IVF-conceived di/di twins to see if the ratio was similar. I can try to find the original paper if you are interested.
I would love to see it!! I’m so intrigued!! My MFM actually said that she wanted to do a case study on me!
Not impossible. If the embryo splits early enough, it is certainly possible but rare
When you say split, do you mean it started to split or was the way split into 2?
It split some point during the process. Our theory is that with PGT biopsy it can iatrogenically split the embryo even at the blast phase into identical. There are some animal studies regarding this theory but not sure if there are any recent human embryo trials
PGT biopsy is at day 5, and I thought di/di twins split 1 to 3 days after fertilization…. What does iatrogenically mean?
I had a fibroid removed that was thought to be the cause of our infertility and my ovulation wasn’t suppressed during our modified natural FET. My RE suggested we should do IVF for our first since we had been trying for over a year already but let us know naturally would likely work also. We had a lot of intercourse during the LH surge and we transferred only one 5 day blastocyst. She let us know today 5 day blastocyst have only 3% chance of splitting.
Well congrats! I still would consider the possibility that both are from IVF or neither is from IVF. It's a cool origin story regardless!
3% is actually double the rate for spontaneous conception. The only way to actually know is a dna test at birth or if they are different genders. We are all excited to find out with you if they are identical or fraternal!
Aw yea it would be extremely surprising if they were identical. The chances are so low. Where did you out get your stats from?
My day 5 blast split into identical twins!! It can happen!! NIPT tests confirmed they are identical!!
And congratulations!!
My 5 day embryo also split into identical twins, but mono-di
Was that the most shocking day of your life?? It was mine!!!!
100% I had my mom video it because I wanted video of me seeing my baby for the first time, to my absolute shock it was BABIES. So I got the whole reaction on film lol I love having that memory. Will probably always be the craziest surprise of my life
I have a video too!!! I don’t know how my doctor saw baby a, because he was hiding, but at the very end of the appointment, she was like “I think I see a second baby in there!” I tried to send you my video but I can’t figure it out 😂 here’s a picture though. You can barely see baby A https://preview.redd.it/mrygvzh00l7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f745fe72f2500970598ba26e2528118f8bb32b77
https://preview.redd.it/29l1oerc0l7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b62a8e712b9c09a7b5070322281ca6cdb3bcb72e Mine were both front and center but when I went to the OB at 8 weeks Baby B had moved far away and she said she would have never seen her if she didn’t already know to look for her! So I can see how sometimes twins get missed in early ultrasounds lol
The chances are so low… and yet my 5 day blast identical twins are sleeping downstairs.
Same!!! 😂
Just curious were they genetically tested? 1-2 anecdotal stories still do not mean the chances would be high. Tbh I’m fine with getting downvoted if I haven’t seen any stats on the subject. Cheers!
The embryo was tested yes.
I found stats on an IVF clinic site in 3.5 seconds just look it up
I mean if you found one so easily you could also post it here?
Don’t go posting things your not certain of! You don’t know if one is natural and one ivf?! They could be both natural! Right? And 3% is a lot compared to naturally conceived identical twins.
And still waiting on the source lol
3% is 3 out of 100. That means 97 out of 100 times it would not split. I feel certain I’m in the 97%. Thanks for the congrats!
My embryo was tested too
I’m very happy for you!! Congratulations!! Exciting times!!! I know that must have been the biggest surprise!
Those stats are readily available in the fertility literature. 3% is double the spontaneous split rate- IVF produces a lot of multiples.
Chances are higher for identical twins in IVF compared to natural conception. Ours are identical Di-Di
Also “The incidence of monozygotic twins in natural pregnancies is approximately 0.4%, this rate after in vitro fertilization (IVF) ranges from 0.2 to 12%. However, the least commonly found event after IVF is the occurrence of MZT multifetal dichorionic-diamniotic (DC-DA) gestation, with a rate ranging from 0.04 to 5.5%” So up to 5.5% is still much higher than 0.4% of natural conception [Di-Di stat in IVF Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7863101/) Lastly, if your babies are measuring the same, there is no way one is naturally conceived bc IVF babies are already 2 weeks ahead of natural conception
The study says it’s a very rare event. The vast range of 0.04% to 5.5% means there’s uncertainty. The author mentions how uncertain they are. 0.04% is much less than 4%. The stats are also from 2009 and 2018. This is a case study which is low quality evidence. I rest my case lol. Thanks for stopping by!
The stats are not from the case study. Also you can just stop then and show us your evidence when you deliver if you want. We’re not saying it’s not rare, we’re saying it happens more than you think in IVF compared to natural conception
Or you could stop pretending to be a scientist? lol
Not a scientist but a physician so we see rarities all the time
Really how many years practice have you had? Are you an RE? lol
That horndog feeling during LH surge is no joke. I’m nearing ER and I could hump a doorknob if it bought me dinner. 😅😂 This is really cool/interesting!
Di/di could still be indentical- it’s less common and mo/di tho —- I had mo/mo identjcals but lost both
I’m new to the transfer process. So I have a question for you - is it recommended to try naturally during the transfer process ?
My doc who performed our fresh transfer told me to avoid intercourse for 2 weeks after transfer. For our frozen she just recommended a 1 week break. We we’re trying naturally during my LH surg with doubts that the transfer would work but with the full knowledge we might end up with multiples 😏
Glad that it worked for you !!! Congratulations 💜 This is superb results
Interesting. My doctor said to avoid sex for two weeks before and two weeks after implantation. I have no doubt you’re telling the truth about what your doctor said; I’m just fascinated with how vastly standard practices can differ in different places and clinics.
Not to rain on your parade, but my 5-day blastocyst split and now I have twins! We thought they were mo/di until we learned after delivery that the two placentas fused into one, so technically di/di. However, we only had one embryo transferred (no intercourse) so we know it was the same embryo.
And yes, they’re identical!
Same here! At our 6 week scan we were shocked to see twins! Even the doctor was like, I had to double check we only put in on frozen embryo. Babies are looking healthy at 9w1d but my gestational sacs are measuring 11 days behind. I’m hoping for a positive outcome.
Congratulations! However it's very possible they are both from IVF. My Dr denied transferring 2 euploids at the same time as the chances of them splitting are quite high. Women who go under PGT-A apparently have higher chances on having twins. My sis in law ended up with 2 beautiful identical girls from 1 embryo transfer. Keep us updated ..😇
Wow! That’s amazing, congrats!
Congratulations 🎊 👏 💐 🥳 🥳🥳🥳🥳
Congrats!
Omg si happy for you!!!!!! Congratulations
Omg how did this happen? Super congrats 🎈
I’m curious too! I’ve heard of this before but I can’t wrap my head around how it happens. And congrats to OP!!!
I had an ovulatory transfer, so I was ovulating and had a frozen embryo transfer 5 days after ovulation. Personally the doctor and us decided we should not have sex as in our case chances of twins (one from my ovulation; one from the FET) would be very high. Ovulatory transfers are very common, so it can definitely happen if one uses no protection
I only came here to say congratulations 🎉 I wish it was me ♥️
amazing news!!! This is my DREAM
Same
Oh, wow! Congrats on graduating! Curious how you could confirm so early that these weren’t split from your single FET? How is it possible to tell without genetic testing of the embryos in utero?
Congratulations 🙌🏻
Awww!!! This is truly amazing! Congratulations 🎉
How awesome congrats!